[Ibogaine] comments from star

Jeff G jeffgallop at gmail.com
Tue Sep 3 16:19:21 CDT 2013


Val...
It seems to my mind, and take that for whatever it's worth, your heading
down yet another parallel road.
They're simply isn't any magic formula that is going to make this anywhere
near easy.
If there was a drug that reliably and harmlessly lowered tolerance every
junkie would have it in there kit.
The closest thing we got you already know....it's the root. It will lower
your tolerance but all too many times to the point of you dying after your
next meds, fix, speedball, us know...your choice...
So even that ain't no easy answer but it is an answer more than any other.
Just be patient, it took a lot of time and drugs to get where your at, now
it will take time to get right....

After all you've been thru lately, adding yet another unknown quantity into
your medimix just feels like more of the trouble you've just about bounced
back from.

The day the true real easy way out is discovered, for sure, you'll hear it
here first...
And I will admit if it is real, I'd probably be out getting high and then
using it to get unsprung....that's just honest stupidity, but if not honest
here then where I figure.

This kind of reminds me of the Dan Bern song 'The Day They Found a Cure for
Aids' ...the song goes on about how everyone started making it with
everyone, anyone....random folks in line at the grocery store....finally no
consequences of unprotected random sex....Yea!!

Well they ain't found the cure for our disease....
Save one very helpful tool....

Stay strong
Peace
JeffG
On Sep 3, 2013 1:59 PM, "James Jackson" <bajaiboganaut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Slippery slope stuff, that.  Used in a damn-near laboratory setting, with
> all the variables *known*, it *might* be an aid to a *sort of* harm
> reduction program.  There are established "dirty maintenance" protocols
> that achieve the result promised by this "silver-bullet-of-the-week".
>
> Slowing down the motility of the gastrointestinal system of any opioid
> user is counterintuitive. Look at the bigger picture.  See the system.
>  Avoid easy answers.
>
> J
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone heard of proglumide?  I guess it was originally a medication
>> for ulcers, the side effect was it significantly lowered a person's opiot
>> tolerance http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proglumide.   I ordered some
>> about a month ago from Kratomdragon.com, but it still has not come. I don't
>> know if I got ripped off or not. I have called, sent emails but have not
>> got any responses.  Anyways I am goimg to try it. I found another vendor to
>> order it from. But I am not sure if they sell it in small amounts.  If this
>> works that would be so AWSOME! Since I have such a hard time with SAOs for
>> 3 months. Has anyone tried it? Lotsof Love, Val
>> On Aug 17, 2013 10:25 PM, "Valarie" <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yea Donnie, if I would have had short acting opiot I know I would have
>>> gotten through to 3 months off subutex. I just want people to know I have a
>>> problem with benzodiazepines too, and the Kratom DID stop my withdrawal for
>>> over a month along with a few SAOs, the problem was I could not sleep, and
>>> was having a panic attack right before my seizure which scared the shit out
>>> of me,  my hands must have been near my chest because it is all scratched
>>> up. I might have been able to do it with the Kratom so I don't want people
>>> to be discouraged, it worked for me for a month with NO withdrawal. Just
>>> don't drink the powder, boil it in tea bags instead this is for people like
>>> me who can not get SAOs.  But because of my problem with xanex it did not
>>> work. I know if you have enough SAOs u should defiantly do it that way if
>>> you are preparing for an ibogaine treatment,  I am going to get myself
>>> tested to see if I am epileptic it sucks that in the meantime I have to be
>>> on sub. Without SAOs at least for me I could not go longer then a month. My
>>> boyfriend talked to my ibogaine provider they were supposed to call back
>>> but didn't.  Oh well, atleast I have you guys that give me advice and help
>>> me. Thank you all... Val
>>> On Aug 17, 2013 1:41 PM, "Donny Drake" <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's sad that kratom did not work to help subutex withdrawals, believe
>>>> me you and I are not the only ones who used kratom and found to it to be
>>>> quite weak during the acute stage of subutex or suboxone withdrawals... The
>>>> thing is that sub acute stage is tooooo looong drawn out for anything like
>>>> kratom or benzos to work. They might help after 3-4 months and later on in
>>>> PAWS but during the acute phase it is a totally different matter.  Another
>>>> issue is that if youy jump from a high dose of subutex or any dose above
>>>> 0.25 or 0.5 then it only extends the acute stage, and tends to also block
>>>> out anything so called comfort med working.,..This is why I weaned down so
>>>> low to subutex because I wanted SAOs to work, and indeed they are...Yes am
>>>> a lucky bastard in that I managed to get all these SAOs for free and how am
>>>> so stable now..Not in withdrawal at all. Infact am high from just a low
>>>> dose of SAOs, I ve never been this happy because I know hard and depressin
>>>> it is to get off subutex especially without anything..But the job has not
>>>> be done yet..I need to taper off SAOs and then do Ibogaine..
>>>>
>>>> .I have made a deal with my provider to give me half price, she will
>>>> have blood pressure monitor, heart, 3 sitters and other facilities. Who
>>>> kows I may only need boosters instead of a 1 big flood?...I still need to
>>>> do further tests because anybodys who been on sub, lratom needs further
>>>> tests, MUST get further tests, it's not just about death but some damage
>>>> too, and sub effects liver, so does kratom, so more tests are needed.. But
>>>> I am so confident about this...Didnt think I would get of the sub cycle..I
>>>> do agree someone MUST have SAOs to get get off sub and prepare ofr
>>>> Ibogaine, maybe 3 moths MINIMUM, but if you stopped at high dose then maybe
>>>> longer according to my provider...You see we have to puyt effort in getting
>>>> this far, you have to be smart enough to meet the right people, right
>>>> providers, research beforehand about SAOs and everything else...I just
>>>> happen to have people's skills and naturally get on well with people, so
>>>> this is another factor in why am stable right now.
>>>>
>>>> Again am sorry kratom and other meds did nit work for you..You have to
>>>> taper the sub, then go on SAOs for long as possible, but please get tested,
>>>> its harder for females, very bard, that is why my provider said thank God
>>>> am a guy because she is so vary of women doing Ibogaine...Anytway I did say
>>>> kratom will not work in acute stage as eventually the half life/withdrawals
>>>> of sub breaks through and blocks it...I so can't believe am so stable on
>>>> SAO on such low doses...This means I can save these SAOs for 2 years,
>>>> perhaps even give them to someone who is on sub... At least now I do not
>>>> have to worry about 3-5 months of extreme mental withdrawals from sub, and
>>>> that bad depression, insomnia etc...
>>>>
>>>> Good luck people in anyway.
>>>>
>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>  *From:* Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com>
>>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 17 August 2013, 5:14
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] comments from star
>>>>
>>>> Jim, Randy,Star,Fall and others . You have all helped me so much that
>>>> is why it aches my heart to have to tell you I took 2mg of sub to stabilize
>>>> myself. Jim is right I tottay mixed to many drugs togeather and I may be
>>>> epileptic. For now I have 2 2mg pills of clonazepam. I don't know how long
>>>> they last, so if someone who does please let me know. I took half of one at
>>>> noon when I took 1mg of sub then another 1mg about an hour later. I have
>>>> stopped the Kratom. But I have been on xanex for 12 years and cannot just
>>>> stop. I feel like I stabilized myself,  My doctor is out of the country and
>>>> they won't call me in more clonazepam (I had a few from an old script, from
>>>> when I tried to switch from xanex to that) I feel like I need to get these
>>>> benzodiazepines in order before anything else, because I take quote a bit
>>>> of xanex. I want to be totally clean not taking xanex still. I feel like I
>>>> was rushing everything, rushing my bf for the money and I had a really
>>>> scary awake dream (You know when u can't sleep anfd close your eyes)  which
>>>> threw me in the panic attack which I then woke up my bf and told him to
>>>> hold me then had a seizure. If I would not have woke him up he is a very
>>>> deep sleeper. My dream was that this dark shadow was cutting down all these
>>>> trees in a forest, the shadow was very scary! I have heard about people's
>>>> ibogaine treatment and I remember one of them saying about seeing trees
>>>> being chopped down so maybe that's why I dreamt it. But I have realized
>>>> that I was trying to do everything to quickly and I was putting myself in
>>>> way more danger its like somebody shook me and said wake up valarie this is
>>>> not the way. You can not combine all these different things to keep
>>>> yourself from detoxing, that is what is going to kill me. I was just
>>>> watching a documentary on CNN about marijuana and they said every 14
>>>> minutes someone dies because an accidental drug overdose combining drugs
>>>> like I was doing. I am not trying to rationalize the sub I am just trying
>>>> to be honest. So I am going to take Jim's advice and see if I am epileptic,
>>>> then do a sub taper if I decide to stay on the subutex.  Just to let you
>>>> all know I put myself in an intense 6 day a week outpatient drug rehab 2
>>>> months ago (they are letting me make payments that is how I can afford it)
>>>> unfortunately nobody makes payment plans to detox you, but I have to get
>>>> off this xanex! I am taking this very seriously.  However I am not going to
>>>> go to a place to detox where I basically have to sign my life away.Which is
>>>> the only thing I can afford and the times I went there they would always
>>>> stop whatever they had me on for seizures and every time I went to this
>>>> place (5+ years ago) When they took me off the seizure med I would have a
>>>> seizure.  I never had seizures before I started taking xanex but I have
>>>> also had a seizure when I took 2 ultra pills. So first things first I have
>>>> to get the seizure situation under control.  It sucks that I will probably
>>>> continue the sub after a month off but I could have killed myself mixing
>>>> all this stuff to keep me from withdrawal.  I was able to get Norco in
>>>> short periods I'm sure that's why I was able to stay off the sub for a
>>>> month but my tolerance is to high and a few Norco was not enough. Kratom
>>>> did work to keep me from withdrawal But it's also a stimulant, which is why
>>>> I took all that other stuff to sleep. I can't just say fuck it! But I can't
>>>> just mix all these drugs whether there kratom, Nyquil, xanex, Clonidine
>>>> and my last vicodin. I do not want to die. I'm not 100% bit I have
>>>> stabilized myself, and do not have to worry about a seizure if I keep the
>>>> right amount of clonazepam in my system. Geeez didn't realise how long this
>>>> message was, but I need all the support I can get
>>>> On Aug 16, 2013 8:14 PM, "Valarie" <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your advice Jim but I have to say I am very disappointed in
>>>> myself, I was so afraid that I would have another seizure I don't know if
>>>> the Kratom has anything to do with it but I took 2mg of subutex today. The
>>>> pods are really expensive and because of all of this my boyfriend work has
>>>> been suffering , he basically can't do his job if he is up worrying about
>>>> me He had a few thousand dollars saved for my treatment but now since all
>>>> this has been going on he has not been waiking up early, stopped going to
>>>> the gym and he works from home so you can see how this would definitely
>>>> hurt his job performance especially since he works from home. So now we are
>>>> having to use that money to pay our rent that I had saved or he had saved
>>>> up. I am just so upset I don't want to end up homeless. Plus his mother
>>>> just died unexpectedly  from single cell lung cancer, she was only 50. But
>>>> she also had no insurance,  there for never went to the doctor and this
>>>> happened. I won't even go into how horrible the hospital treated her all
>>>> just say this they knew she had maybe a month to live did not tell her and
>>>> release her! We got hospice and she staid with us for about 4 days before
>>>> she passed away. My boyfriend thought he was going to.do , therapy and get
>>>> better, but it was too late for the chemotherapy at that stage. He has been
>>>> through so much and I am putting him in even worse condition, we have been
>>>> togeather for over 6 years,  but we're not married.
>>>> On Aug 16, 2013 3:40 PM, "Jim Hadey3" <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Val,
>>>>
>>>> You might be an epileptic and it would not hurt to be tested.  If you
>>>> do not have insurance or cash con the Epileptic Center of Whatever state
>>>> your in and it can be done for free.  Give them a call and find out.
>>>>
>>>> It seems you mixing a lot of drugs, yes a low amount but your in a
>>>> fragile state right now.  Kicking sub.... well it is like lifting 500 lbs,
>>>> very hard to do and most people can not do it.  I feel for ya, your hooked
>>>> on sub and going through hell and still got a ways to go.  Most people want
>>>> to go a two or three months off sub but the not the ct way.  Well there are
>>>> not that much options, there is ct, taper and Ibo and that's about it.  And
>>>> when your at the end of your taper there is still some ct to go through.
>>>>
>>>> You want something that you can use for 2 months, get you self some
>>>> thing that you can use for the next two months.  It seems that Kartom can
>>>> be a problem for the liver and you drink it all day long - that can't be
>>>> good for ya.  And two folks that I talked to said they will not do a Kartom
>>>> detox with IBO so then you got to switch to another yet another drug and go
>>>> through the switch then detox as low as possible then do the Ibo.
>>>>
>>>> I am not a pod salesman but that would be one true normal opiate drug.
>>>>  I have not idea how much it will cost but got to be cheaper than sub.
>>>>  Also, you have a problem for you like getting an opiate buzz and so does
>>>> everyone on this forum.  Some use and some are trying to quit or cut down
>>>> and get off.  It is not that easy, you got a rough road ahead and once your
>>>> clean - stay clean.  You asked while going through w/d would it be ok to
>>>> take a sub pill or will that start my habit all over again.  Yes, for every
>>>> time you felt shitty you would take a pill and eventually be hooked and all
>>>> the suffering will be in vain or vane whichever, it will be a lot of
>>>> suffering with no gain.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Call your state or county health dept and tell them your having
>>>> seizures.  If you have another one have your BF call for an ambulance and
>>>> get it on paper and who know you might find someone at the hospital who
>>>> will tell who to contact.
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Get you brain and body depending on one drug rather than        a
>>>> mixture.
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Don't take Xanax for you body may still be sensitive to it.
>>>>
>>>> 4.  When you get your self straight keep away from everything.
>>>>
>>>> That's the best I can think of, maybe some others on the forum can
>>>> offer some suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>   - JIM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am really confused, I have been taking Kratom for about a month now.
>>>> Last night I could not sleep so I took that zzz Quill ( nite quill) , a
>>>> xanex bar and a Clonidine in a period of 2 hrs, a few vicodin, and some
>>>> more Kratom.  I awoke to an extreme panic attacks. I woke my boyfriend up
>>>> and told him I was really scared and just to hold me. Then I awoke to him
>>>> all freaked out he informed me that I just had a seizure!  I was so scared
>>>> . Now I am so confused I had just taken a xanex so it was not because of
>>>> that. I have had seizures in the past but I always blamed it on the
>>>> benzodiazepines. Could this have been some weird drug reaction? All this
>>>> shit makes me want to get back on the sub, but I have not taken any. Its
>>>> just starting to get so hard. I do NOT want to die. My boyfriend just lost
>>>> his mother and is extremely depressed, he needs me to be the strong one he
>>>> has been the strong one for over six years now I feel like I'm bringing him
>>>> down with me. :( . I am afraid to take ibogaine now and I feel like maybe
>>>> since I have been off the sub for a month now and I was thinking about
>>>> trying to taper myself with the use of Clonidine from the Kratom, I have
>>>> found myself drinking the Kratom tea all day long, but I don't want to take
>>>> the Clonidine for more then 2 weeks because it can cause hypertension, and
>>>> that is the last thing I need! Can anyone help me maybe with a taper plan
>>>> or something to get off the Kratom? Does anyone know why I would have a
>>>> seizure?  I have never been tested to see if I am epileptic. I don't have
>>>> insurance. Thanks, Val
>>>>  On Aug 16, 2013 12:50 AM, "Jim Hadey3" <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I's 3 O'clock in the morning and can't sleep.  Anyway, the first
>>>> sentence of Kevins email went like this ...where I live a young kid called
>>>> 911 ..said he was suicidal ..cops shot him in the head..... ( I don't want
>>>> to mention the kids being there.)
>>>>
>>>> I can hear the phone call now.
>>>>
>>>> 911: what's your emergency?
>>>>
>>>> Kid   I want to kill my self but just can't
>>>>        pull the trigger.
>>>>
>>>> 911:  Is there something wrong with
>>>>         the gun?  Are you sure it is
>>>>         loaded?
>>>>
>>>> Kid:   No the gun if fine I just don't
>>>>          have the courage or guts.  I
>>>>          need help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 911:  Ok, we will send someone out
>>>>
>>>> 911:  Car 54 please go to 23874 Maple
>>>>             and help the man trying to commit
>>>>             suicide.
>>>>
>>>> Cops:  Hello dispatch we went to the
>>>>           address and he said he could
>>>>           not pull the trigger so we
>>>>           shot him in the head.
>>>>
>>>> Now, that's service.  That would make a funny skit or cartoon. Most of
>>>> ya know they also shoot dogs too, yeah I posted a few.
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>   - JIM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Kevin Murchie <satansbigtoe at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> where I live a young kid called 911 ..said he was suicidal  ..cops shot
>>>> him in the head in front of little kids ..his mother and neighbors..they
>>>> thought he was going to attack them..as he was walking back inside the
>>>> house ..btw he was only 125lb soak an wet..so keep thibking the police are
>>>> your pals..
>>>>  On 2013-08-15 6:54 PM, "Matt S." <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I don't mean to be rude Shelly but a rudimentary google search will
>>>> find dozens and dozens of news stories about suicidal people calling 911
>>>> and having the cops come and shoot them (or their family).  See for
>>>> yourself.
>>>>
>>>> Here are just a few from page one of my search
>>>>
>>>> http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2013/apr/22/suicidal-man-shot-by-police/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.kvoa.com/news/suicidal-man-shot-by-police-was-veteran-with-ptsd/#_
>>>>
>>>> http://wvmetronews.com/2013/04/19/state-police-say-raleigh-death-suicide-by-cop-case/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/free/20130608tucson-police-shooting-woman-suicide-call.html
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-parents-suicidal-boy-shot-police-speak-article-1.1194069
>>>> http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20130815/BLOG41/130819911/1048/comm0609
>>>>
>>>> http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-04-01/news/fl-pines-police-involved-20130401_1_boyfriend-woman-two-guns
>>>>
>>>> http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-222310.html&s=0e00e18f469667f95a235740fd95d7bc&amp<http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-222310.html&s=0e00e18f469667f95a235740fd95d7bc&amp>
>>>> ;
>>>> http://rt.com/usa/police-sniper-suicidal-boy-870/
>>>>
>>>> I know all the people in these stories had guns or knives or something
>>>> to justify getting shot by the cops.   Isn't that always the way it is?  As
>>>> soon as someone gets shot it turns out they were armed because cops would
>>>> never ever shoot an unarmed person.  There was a case where I live where a
>>>> suicidal kid had a crucifix in his hand and the cops thought it looked like
>>>> a gun so they offed him. I'm sure some of these cases really were people
>>>> who intentionally provoked a cop to kill them but sending trigger happy,
>>>> ego maniacal,  meat heads with inferiority complexes to handle a suicidal
>>>> person is a stupid idea to begin with.  The very last people I personally
>>>> would ever call for help of any kind whatsoever would be the cops.  In fact
>>>> since we are on the subject, I did call 911 once a long time ago when I
>>>> thought I had OD'd.  I was taken to the hospital and then to jail.  Fun
>>>> stuff.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry if my sensibilities offended you.  Sometimes the line between
>>>> realism and pessimism is razor thin.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/15/2013 3:33 PM, shellygrantham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That is simply false..period.  They do not send a swat team to shoot
>>>> you if you are suicidal and call 911. I wonder if...
>>>> 1) Maybe there was a scenario where you live and something awful
>>>> happened
>>>> 2) you are joking?
>>>>
>>>>  Either way its irresponsible
>>>> Ive read many posts, on recently where people are desperate and
>>>> struggling.   They should never fear calling 911 for help. Hopefully it
>>>> doesnt get to that point and there are other therapeutic interventions
>>>> available to thw individual.  But people should know that if help is
>>>> needed--dial 911
>>>> If missed something that put your post in context-I apologize.
>>>>
>>>>  Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>> From: "Matt S." <ibogamail at gmail.com> <ibogamail at gmail.com>
>>>> Date: 08/15/2013 4:40 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] comments from star
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim I don't know what things are like where you live but here if you
>>>> call 911 and say you want to commit suicide they send the swat team over to
>>>> shoot you.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>> On 8/15/2013 2:19 PM, Jim Hadey3 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Not once did I see on tv that it is hard to withdraw from SSRIs.  Of
>>>> course the program may be sponsored by them.  If you take too many oxys
>>>> they will bitch at ya but you triple your dose of SSRI/NI and they will
>>>> probably up your dose, figure poor person they need more.  I am so curious
>>>> as to how many Dr take them, 10 percent of the US population are taking
>>>> them.  How did we live all these years without them.  If something is so
>>>> bad you can lose a years word from being in a fog is pretty serious the Dr
>>>> should of said something.  The suicide this can be a big deal too but the
>>>> Dr never mention it.  They should say something like if you feel like
>>>>  committing suicide call 911 but most people who commit suicide don't call.
>>>>  Another thing you can not say that Dr did not warn me and should of, I'll
>>>> get another Dr. because neither will the next Dr.
>>>>
>>>>  Best,
>>>>
>>>>    - JIM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Those SSRI/SNRI's can be difficult to withdrawal at times.  I remember
>>>> Zoloft and Effexor having the most unpleasant and noticeable withdrawals.
>>>>
>>>> ___________________
>>>> Edward
>>>> edwardw at mtciep.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/15/2013 1:06 PM, Randy Faulconer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> star is very sensitive (sp) what would be a non issue for me for
>>>> instance would make her od. everybody has different reactions to drugs
>>>> just about. that's the one thing u have to watch for when doing a
>>>> treatment with ibo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   jim what u said about ssri's brought to mind my first treatment. i
>>>> got as sick quiting paxil as i did the methadone and it is an extreme
>>>> no no to
>>>>
>>>>   trust ur intuition grrrl and u can always call me anytime
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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