[Ibogaine] comments from star

James Jackson bajaiboganaut at gmail.com
Tue Sep 3 15:19:12 CDT 2013


Slippery slope stuff, that.  Used in a damn-near laboratory setting, with
all the variables *known*, it *might* be an aid to a *sort of* harm
reduction program.  There are established "dirty maintenance" protocols
that achieve the result promised by this "silver-bullet-of-the-week".

Slowing down the motility of the gastrointestinal system of any opioid user
is counterintuitive. Look at the bigger picture.  See the system.  Avoid
easy answers.

J


On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone heard of proglumide?  I guess it was originally a medication
> for ulcers, the side effect was it significantly lowered a person's opiot
> tolerance http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proglumide.   I ordered some
> about a month ago from Kratomdragon.com, but it still has not come. I don't
> know if I got ripped off or not. I have called, sent emails but have not
> got any responses.  Anyways I am goimg to try it. I found another vendor to
> order it from. But I am not sure if they sell it in small amounts.  If this
> works that would be so AWSOME! Since I have such a hard time with SAOs for
> 3 months. Has anyone tried it? Lotsof Love, Val
> On Aug 17, 2013 10:25 PM, "Valarie" <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yea Donnie, if I would have had short acting opiot I know I would have
>> gotten through to 3 months off subutex. I just want people to know I have a
>> problem with benzodiazepines too, and the Kratom DID stop my withdrawal for
>> over a month along with a few SAOs, the problem was I could not sleep, and
>> was having a panic attack right before my seizure which scared the shit out
>> of me,  my hands must have been near my chest because it is all scratched
>> up. I might have been able to do it with the Kratom so I don't want people
>> to be discouraged, it worked for me for a month with NO withdrawal. Just
>> don't drink the powder, boil it in tea bags instead this is for people like
>> me who can not get SAOs.  But because of my problem with xanex it did not
>> work. I know if you have enough SAOs u should defiantly do it that way if
>> you are preparing for an ibogaine treatment,  I am going to get myself
>> tested to see if I am epileptic it sucks that in the meantime I have to be
>> on sub. Without SAOs at least for me I could not go longer then a month. My
>> boyfriend talked to my ibogaine provider they were supposed to call back
>> but didn't.  Oh well, atleast I have you guys that give me advice and help
>> me. Thank you all... Val
>> On Aug 17, 2013 1:41 PM, "Donny Drake" <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> It's sad that kratom did not work to help subutex withdrawals, believe
>>> me you and I are not the only ones who used kratom and found to it to be
>>> quite weak during the acute stage of subutex or suboxone withdrawals... The
>>> thing is that sub acute stage is tooooo looong drawn out for anything like
>>> kratom or benzos to work. They might help after 3-4 months and later on in
>>> PAWS but during the acute phase it is a totally different matter.  Another
>>> issue is that if youy jump from a high dose of subutex or any dose above
>>> 0.25 or 0.5 then it only extends the acute stage, and tends to also block
>>> out anything so called comfort med working.,..This is why I weaned down so
>>> low to subutex because I wanted SAOs to work, and indeed they are...Yes am
>>> a lucky bastard in that I managed to get all these SAOs for free and how am
>>> so stable now..Not in withdrawal at all. Infact am high from just a low
>>> dose of SAOs, I ve never been this happy because I know hard and depressin
>>> it is to get off subutex especially without anything..But the job has not
>>> be done yet..I need to taper off SAOs and then do Ibogaine..
>>>
>>> .I have made a deal with my provider to give me half price, she will
>>> have blood pressure monitor, heart, 3 sitters and other facilities. Who
>>> kows I may only need boosters instead of a 1 big flood?...I still need to
>>> do further tests because anybodys who been on sub, lratom needs further
>>> tests, MUST get further tests, it's not just about death but some damage
>>> too, and sub effects liver, so does kratom, so more tests are needed.. But
>>> I am so confident about this...Didnt think I would get of the sub cycle..I
>>> do agree someone MUST have SAOs to get get off sub and prepare ofr
>>> Ibogaine, maybe 3 moths MINIMUM, but if you stopped at high dose then maybe
>>> longer according to my provider...You see we have to puyt effort in getting
>>> this far, you have to be smart enough to meet the right people, right
>>> providers, research beforehand about SAOs and everything else...I just
>>> happen to have people's skills and naturally get on well with people, so
>>> this is another factor in why am stable right now.
>>>
>>> Again am sorry kratom and other meds did nit work for you..You have to
>>> taper the sub, then go on SAOs for long as possible, but please get tested,
>>> its harder for females, very bard, that is why my provider said thank God
>>> am a guy because she is so vary of women doing Ibogaine...Anytway I did say
>>> kratom will not work in acute stage as eventually the half life/withdrawals
>>> of sub breaks through and blocks it...I so can't believe am so stable on
>>> SAO on such low doses...This means I can save these SAOs for 2 years,
>>> perhaps even give them to someone who is on sub... At least now I do not
>>> have to worry about 3-5 months of extreme mental withdrawals from sub, and
>>> that bad depression, insomnia etc...
>>>
>>> Good luck people in anyway.
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>>  *From:* Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 17 August 2013, 5:14
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] comments from star
>>>
>>> Jim, Randy,Star,Fall and others . You have all helped me so much that is
>>> why it aches my heart to have to tell you I took 2mg of sub to stabilize
>>> myself. Jim is right I tottay mixed to many drugs togeather and I may be
>>> epileptic. For now I have 2 2mg pills of clonazepam. I don't know how long
>>> they last, so if someone who does please let me know. I took half of one at
>>> noon when I took 1mg of sub then another 1mg about an hour later. I have
>>> stopped the Kratom. But I have been on xanex for 12 years and cannot just
>>> stop. I feel like I stabilized myself,  My doctor is out of the country and
>>> they won't call me in more clonazepam (I had a few from an old script, from
>>> when I tried to switch from xanex to that) I feel like I need to get these
>>> benzodiazepines in order before anything else, because I take quote a bit
>>> of xanex. I want to be totally clean not taking xanex still. I feel like I
>>> was rushing everything, rushing my bf for the money and I had a really
>>> scary awake dream (You know when u can't sleep anfd close your eyes)  which
>>> threw me in the panic attack which I then woke up my bf and told him to
>>> hold me then had a seizure. If I would not have woke him up he is a very
>>> deep sleeper. My dream was that this dark shadow was cutting down all these
>>> trees in a forest, the shadow was very scary! I have heard about people's
>>> ibogaine treatment and I remember one of them saying about seeing trees
>>> being chopped down so maybe that's why I dreamt it. But I have realized
>>> that I was trying to do everything to quickly and I was putting myself in
>>> way more danger its like somebody shook me and said wake up valarie this is
>>> not the way. You can not combine all these different things to keep
>>> yourself from detoxing, that is what is going to kill me. I was just
>>> watching a documentary on CNN about marijuana and they said every 14
>>> minutes someone dies because an accidental drug overdose combining drugs
>>> like I was doing. I am not trying to rationalize the sub I am just trying
>>> to be honest. So I am going to take Jim's advice and see if I am epileptic,
>>> then do a sub taper if I decide to stay on the subutex.  Just to let you
>>> all know I put myself in an intense 6 day a week outpatient drug rehab 2
>>> months ago (they are letting me make payments that is how I can afford it)
>>> unfortunately nobody makes payment plans to detox you, but I have to get
>>> off this xanex! I am taking this very seriously.  However I am not going to
>>> go to a place to detox where I basically have to sign my life away.Which is
>>> the only thing I can afford and the times I went there they would always
>>> stop whatever they had me on for seizures and every time I went to this
>>> place (5+ years ago) When they took me off the seizure med I would have a
>>> seizure.  I never had seizures before I started taking xanex but I have
>>> also had a seizure when I took 2 ultra pills. So first things first I have
>>> to get the seizure situation under control.  It sucks that I will probably
>>> continue the sub after a month off but I could have killed myself mixing
>>> all this stuff to keep me from withdrawal.  I was able to get Norco in
>>> short periods I'm sure that's why I was able to stay off the sub for a
>>> month but my tolerance is to high and a few Norco was not enough. Kratom
>>> did work to keep me from withdrawal But it's also a stimulant, which is why
>>> I took all that other stuff to sleep. I can't just say fuck it! But I can't
>>> just mix all these drugs whether there kratom, Nyquil, xanex, Clonidine
>>> and my last vicodin. I do not want to die. I'm not 100% bit I have
>>> stabilized myself, and do not have to worry about a seizure if I keep the
>>> right amount of clonazepam in my system. Geeez didn't realise how long this
>>> message was, but I need all the support I can get
>>> On Aug 16, 2013 8:14 PM, "Valarie" <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for your advice Jim but I have to say I am very disappointed in
>>> myself, I was so afraid that I would have another seizure I don't know if
>>> the Kratom has anything to do with it but I took 2mg of subutex today. The
>>> pods are really expensive and because of all of this my boyfriend work has
>>> been suffering , he basically can't do his job if he is up worrying about
>>> me He had a few thousand dollars saved for my treatment but now since all
>>> this has been going on he has not been waiking up early, stopped going to
>>> the gym and he works from home so you can see how this would definitely
>>> hurt his job performance especially since he works from home. So now we are
>>> having to use that money to pay our rent that I had saved or he had saved
>>> up. I am just so upset I don't want to end up homeless. Plus his mother
>>> just died unexpectedly  from single cell lung cancer, she was only 50. But
>>> she also had no insurance,  there for never went to the doctor and this
>>> happened. I won't even go into how horrible the hospital treated her all
>>> just say this they knew she had maybe a month to live did not tell her and
>>> release her! We got hospice and she staid with us for about 4 days before
>>> she passed away. My boyfriend thought he was going to.do , therapy and get
>>> better, but it was too late for the chemotherapy at that stage. He has been
>>> through so much and I am putting him in even worse condition, we have been
>>> togeather for over 6 years,  but we're not married.
>>> On Aug 16, 2013 3:40 PM, "Jim Hadey3" <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Val,
>>>
>>> You might be an epileptic and it would not hurt to be tested.  If you do
>>> not have insurance or cash con the Epileptic Center of Whatever state your
>>> in and it can be done for free.  Give them a call and find out.
>>>
>>> It seems you mixing a lot of drugs, yes a low amount but your in a
>>> fragile state right now.  Kicking sub.... well it is like lifting 500 lbs,
>>> very hard to do and most people can not do it.  I feel for ya, your hooked
>>> on sub and going through hell and still got a ways to go.  Most people want
>>> to go a two or three months off sub but the not the ct way.  Well there are
>>> not that much options, there is ct, taper and Ibo and that's about it.  And
>>> when your at the end of your taper there is still some ct to go through.
>>>
>>> You want something that you can use for 2 months, get you self some
>>> thing that you can use for the next two months.  It seems that Kartom can
>>> be a problem for the liver and you drink it all day long - that can't be
>>> good for ya.  And two folks that I talked to said they will not do a Kartom
>>> detox with IBO so then you got to switch to another yet another drug and go
>>> through the switch then detox as low as possible then do the Ibo.
>>>
>>> I am not a pod salesman but that would be one true normal opiate drug.
>>>  I have not idea how much it will cost but got to be cheaper than sub.
>>>  Also, you have a problem for you like getting an opiate buzz and so does
>>> everyone on this forum.  Some use and some are trying to quit or cut down
>>> and get off.  It is not that easy, you got a rough road ahead and once your
>>> clean - stay clean.  You asked while going through w/d would it be ok to
>>> take a sub pill or will that start my habit all over again.  Yes, for every
>>> time you felt shitty you would take a pill and eventually be hooked and all
>>> the suffering will be in vain or vane whichever, it will be a lot of
>>> suffering with no gain.
>>>
>>> 1. Call your state or county health dept and tell them your having
>>> seizures.  If you have another one have your BF call for an ambulance and
>>> get it on paper and who know you might find someone at the hospital who
>>> will tell who to contact.
>>>
>>> 2.  Get you brain and body depending on one drug rather than        a
>>> mixture.
>>>
>>> 3.  Don't take Xanax for you body may still be sensitive to it.
>>>
>>> 4.  When you get your self straight keep away from everything.
>>>
>>> That's the best I can think of, maybe some others on the forum can offer
>>> some suggestions.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>   - JIM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am really confused, I have been taking Kratom for about a month now.
>>> Last night I could not sleep so I took that zzz Quill ( nite quill) , a
>>> xanex bar and a Clonidine in a period of 2 hrs, a few vicodin, and some
>>> more Kratom.  I awoke to an extreme panic attacks. I woke my boyfriend up
>>> and told him I was really scared and just to hold me. Then I awoke to him
>>> all freaked out he informed me that I just had a seizure!  I was so scared
>>> . Now I am so confused I had just taken a xanex so it was not because of
>>> that. I have had seizures in the past but I always blamed it on the
>>> benzodiazepines. Could this have been some weird drug reaction? All this
>>> shit makes me want to get back on the sub, but I have not taken any. Its
>>> just starting to get so hard. I do NOT want to die. My boyfriend just lost
>>> his mother and is extremely depressed, he needs me to be the strong one he
>>> has been the strong one for over six years now I feel like I'm bringing him
>>> down with me. :( . I am afraid to take ibogaine now and I feel like maybe
>>> since I have been off the sub for a month now and I was thinking about
>>> trying to taper myself with the use of Clonidine from the Kratom, I have
>>> found myself drinking the Kratom tea all day long, but I don't want to take
>>> the Clonidine for more then 2 weeks because it can cause hypertension, and
>>> that is the last thing I need! Can anyone help me maybe with a taper plan
>>> or something to get off the Kratom? Does anyone know why I would have a
>>> seizure?  I have never been tested to see if I am epileptic. I don't have
>>> insurance. Thanks, Val
>>>  On Aug 16, 2013 12:50 AM, "Jim Hadey3" <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I's 3 O'clock in the morning and can't sleep.  Anyway, the first
>>> sentence of Kevins email went like this ...where I live a young kid called
>>> 911 ..said he was suicidal ..cops shot him in the head..... ( I don't want
>>> to mention the kids being there.)
>>>
>>> I can hear the phone call now.
>>>
>>> 911: what's your emergency?
>>>
>>> Kid   I want to kill my self but just can't
>>>        pull the trigger.
>>>
>>> 911:  Is there something wrong with
>>>         the gun?  Are you sure it is
>>>         loaded?
>>>
>>> Kid:   No the gun if fine I just don't
>>>          have the courage or guts.  I
>>>          need help.
>>>
>>>
>>> 911:  Ok, we will send someone out
>>>
>>> 911:  Car 54 please go to 23874 Maple
>>>             and help the man trying to commit
>>>             suicide.
>>>
>>> Cops:  Hello dispatch we went to the
>>>           address and he said he could
>>>           not pull the trigger so we
>>>           shot him in the head.
>>>
>>> Now, that's service.  That would make a funny skit or cartoon. Most of
>>> ya know they also shoot dogs too, yeah I posted a few.
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>   - JIM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Kevin Murchie <satansbigtoe at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> where I live a young kid called 911 ..said he was suicidal  ..cops shot
>>> him in the head in front of little kids ..his mother and neighbors..they
>>> thought he was going to attack them..as he was walking back inside the
>>> house ..btw he was only 125lb soak an wet..so keep thibking the police are
>>> your pals..
>>>  On 2013-08-15 6:54 PM, "Matt S." <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I don't mean to be rude Shelly but a rudimentary google search will
>>> find dozens and dozens of news stories about suicidal people calling 911
>>> and having the cops come and shoot them (or their family).  See for
>>> yourself.
>>>
>>> Here are just a few from page one of my search
>>>
>>> http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2013/apr/22/suicidal-man-shot-by-police/
>>>
>>> http://www.kvoa.com/news/suicidal-man-shot-by-police-was-veteran-with-ptsd/#_
>>>
>>> http://wvmetronews.com/2013/04/19/state-police-say-raleigh-death-suicide-by-cop-case/
>>>
>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/free/20130608tucson-police-shooting-woman-suicide-call.html
>>>
>>> https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-parents-suicidal-boy-shot-police-speak-article-1.1194069
>>> http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20130815/BLOG41/130819911/1048/comm0609
>>>
>>> http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-04-01/news/fl-pines-police-involved-20130401_1_boyfriend-woman-two-guns
>>>
>>> http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-222310.html&s=0e00e18f469667f95a235740fd95d7bc&amp<http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-222310.html&s=0e00e18f469667f95a235740fd95d7bc&amp>
>>> ;
>>> http://rt.com/usa/police-sniper-suicidal-boy-870/
>>>
>>> I know all the people in these stories had guns or knives or something
>>> to justify getting shot by the cops.   Isn't that always the way it is?  As
>>> soon as someone gets shot it turns out they were armed because cops would
>>> never ever shoot an unarmed person.  There was a case where I live where a
>>> suicidal kid had a crucifix in his hand and the cops thought it looked like
>>> a gun so they offed him. I'm sure some of these cases really were people
>>> who intentionally provoked a cop to kill them but sending trigger happy,
>>> ego maniacal,  meat heads with inferiority complexes to handle a suicidal
>>> person is a stupid idea to begin with.  The very last people I personally
>>> would ever call for help of any kind whatsoever would be the cops.  In fact
>>> since we are on the subject, I did call 911 once a long time ago when I
>>> thought I had OD'd.  I was taken to the hospital and then to jail.  Fun
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> Sorry if my sensibilities offended you.  Sometimes the line between
>>> realism and pessimism is razor thin.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/15/2013 3:33 PM, shellygrantham wrote:
>>>
>>> That is simply false..period.  They do not send a swat team to shoot you
>>> if you are suicidal and call 911. I wonder if...
>>> 1) Maybe there was a scenario where you live and something awful happened
>>> 2) you are joking?
>>>
>>>  Either way its irresponsible
>>> Ive read many posts, on recently where people are desperate and
>>> struggling.   They should never fear calling 911 for help. Hopefully it
>>> doesnt get to that point and there are other therapeutic interventions
>>> available to thw individual.  But people should know that if help is
>>> needed--dial 911
>>> If missed something that put your post in context-I apologize.
>>>
>>>  Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: "Matt S." <ibogamail at gmail.com> <ibogamail at gmail.com>
>>> Date: 08/15/2013 4:40 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] comments from star
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim I don't know what things are like where you live but here if you
>>> call 911 and say you want to commit suicide they send the swat team over to
>>> shoot you.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> On 8/15/2013 2:19 PM, Jim Hadey3 wrote:
>>>
>>>  Not once did I see on tv that it is hard to withdraw from SSRIs.  Of
>>> course the program may be sponsored by them.  If you take too many oxys
>>> they will bitch at ya but you triple your dose of SSRI/NI and they will
>>> probably up your dose, figure poor person they need more.  I am so curious
>>> as to how many Dr take them, 10 percent of the US population are taking
>>> them.  How did we live all these years without them.  If something is so
>>> bad you can lose a years word from being in a fog is pretty serious the Dr
>>> should of said something.  The suicide this can be a big deal too but the
>>> Dr never mention it.  They should say something like if you feel like
>>>  committing suicide call 911 but most people who commit suicide don't call.
>>>  Another thing you can not say that Dr did not warn me and should of, I'll
>>> get another Dr. because neither will the next Dr.
>>>
>>>  Best,
>>>
>>>    - JIM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Those SSRI/SNRI's can be difficult to withdrawal at times.  I remember
>>> Zoloft and Effexor having the most unpleasant and noticeable withdrawals.
>>>
>>> ___________________
>>> Edward
>>> edwardw at mtciep.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/15/2013 1:06 PM, Randy Faulconer wrote:
>>>
>>> star is very sensitive (sp) what would be a non issue for me for
>>> instance would make her od. everybody has different reactions to drugs
>>> just about. that's the one thing u have to watch for when doing a
>>> treatment with ibo.
>>>
>>>
>>>   jim what u said about ssri's brought to mind my first treatment. i
>>> got as sick quiting paxil as i did the methadone and it is an extreme
>>> no no to
>>>
>>>   trust ur intuition grrrl and u can always call me anytime
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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