[Ibogaine] phenibut and litium orantate

Jim Hadey3 jimhadey3 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 18 10:22:17 CDT 2013


If your having trouble with benzos this is the place to go for info.

  - JIM



On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:

> The detox facility told me the fenabarbital  was for benzo withdrawal and
> to keep me from going into a seizure, But they make you kick opiots cold
> turkey so I didn't notice whether it helped or not.I went to this place 3x
> and every time they took me off the fenabarbital I would have a seizure.
> I guess that's there quick way to get someone off benzodiazepines.  But I
> have learned it can take years to get someone 100% off benzodiazepines
> depending on how long they have been on it. I have had been on xanex for 12
> years before I finally switched to Colonzapam.  Colonzapam and Valium are
> used to get people off xanex because xanex only last 4 hours. The other 2
> last 8-12hrs.
> I had tried switching from xanex to Colonzapam before, but the anxiety was
> to much.
> When I found out about Ibogaine it brought me great hope, maybe that's why
> the switch was a lot easier, and like I said I was taking like 10-12 mgs of
> xanex and was always running out.
> Now I am stable on 6mgs of Colonzapam and I had no seizures during the
> switch which was about 2 month ago.
> The first month I did run out because I had to take more then prescribed
> my anxiety was so high. But this is now2 month 1 week later I have
> stabilized.
> Jim sent me something really good on detoxing from benzodiazepines. If I
> find it I will resend it to you
> Its really long so I printed it out, so I don't know if it's still in my
> email. If it's not ask Jim.
>
> <3 Val
> On Oct 17, 2013 5:32 PM, "Sergey Sibirian" <sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Val,
>>
>> Fanabarbital?
>> It's not benzo, it's a barbiturate.
>> Did it help? No WD from benzos?
>> I actually never heard about substituting, Barbs for benzos, but I'm not
>> an expert either,
>> so its possible.
>> Yea, like I said, benzos are by far the worst to WD...
>> Horrible shit.
>>
>> :)
>> Sergey
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sergie, Colonzapam is much better then xanex because it last for 12 hour
>>> not 4hrs like xanex plus it is also a seizure med. I have to take steps
>>> down,I cannot just stop my benzodiazepines I have been on them for 12
>>> years, and EVERYTIME I have tried to come off I have gone into a seizure.
>>> Even after I left a 14 day treatment center they had me on fenabarbital for
>>> 14 days The day they took me off I had a seizure.
>>> <3 Val
>>> On Oct 16, 2013 5:41 PM, "Sergey Sibirian" <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> Yea...
>>>> I've seen the movie "sicko" Michael Moore...
>>>> I don't know if it accurately represents the US health care, but it
>>>> seems like it does.
>>>> That's just wrong man...
>>>> I remember Obama tried implementing a more accessible Health system,
>>>> which didn't work obviously.
>>>> Too huge the money involved.
>>>> But what struck me the most, is those f**king hordes of brainwashed
>>>> zombies that were demonstrating AGAINST!!!
>>>> ?????
>>>> It's the very people that would benefit from it!!!
>>>> Propaganda and mass-hypnose is really refining itself in US. It's
>>>> either that or the people are getting much more stupid, I'm not sure. Maybe
>>>> a combo.
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> Sergey.
>>>> Loves Canada :')
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Sergy,
>>>>>
>>>>> Many people in the US do not have insurance and therefore can not go
>>>>> to the Dr, you must wait until
>>>>> your nearly dead then go to the emergency room at
>>>>> the hospital.  Now for mental health problems you
>>>>> can sometimes call your county health department
>>>>> and get counseling for free.  Also if you get an STD
>>>>> (sexual transmitted disease) they will want you to
>>>>> come in for a shot or pills for they do not want you
>>>>> spreading to others.
>>>>>
>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:02 AM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I should let everyone know I am on benzos so maybe that's why the
>>>>>> anxiety wasn't that bad for me when I switched from Sub to Kratom . But
>>>>>> since I decided to do Ibogaine 3 months ago I went from 10-12 mgs of xanex
>>>>>> to 4-6 mgs of colonzapam.  And I feel ok. Its not BAM like xanex but it
>>>>>> just makes me feel ok throughout the day. I also don't take more then
>>>>>> prescribed,  where with xanex that was always happening and I had seizures
>>>>>> because of it. Based on my experience
>>>>>> I would recommend anyone trying to quit xanex goes to Colonzapam. Mg
>>>>>> to Mg they are the same,
>>>>>> <3 Val
>>>>>>  On Oct 15, 2013 8:09 PM, "Sergey Sibirian" <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Jim,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's funny how you mention that "AA and doctors are somewhat
>>>>>>> close-minded..."
>>>>>>> On the dot.
>>>>>>> I came to the same conclusion.
>>>>>>> I guess NA/AA have to be that way, after all they promote COMPLETE
>>>>>>> abstinence.
>>>>>>> Another thing I find... kind of wrong, is that even after 20-30
>>>>>>> years of sobriety, members stilll announce themselves as "alcoholics" or
>>>>>>> "addicts", etc...
>>>>>>> I would personally tried to move on to another level... At least it
>>>>>>> seems like that's what I wanted to do.
>>>>>>> Just don't get me wrong: I DO KNOW THE GOOD SIDES OF AA, their
>>>>>>> strong sides, the benefits of participating.
>>>>>>> Like I said, about 90% of recovered addicts that I know are all in
>>>>>>> AA/NA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not even mentioning my god-damn doctor...
>>>>>>> And it's not like he's shitty or anything... He's actually more or
>>>>>>> less decent as a doctor and even as a human being... But I don't know what
>>>>>>> the f**k happens to these shrinks. I mean, career happens, life happens,
>>>>>>> age happens, I don't f**kin know. If I was a doctor and there was a
>>>>>>> chemical compound that could reset an addict's brain, remove the
>>>>>>> neurological part of the habit, I would go crazy about it. I would push for
>>>>>>> research, do testing, collect experiences, maybe even do some underground
>>>>>>> trials. But NOT JUST STUPIDLY IGNORE THE WHOLE THING!!! When I ask him
>>>>>>> about Iboga, he makes this face like I just said a name of an actor he saw
>>>>>>> somewhere in the end-titles a long time ago... Like "sounds vaguely
>>>>>>> familiar, what's that shit again?"
>>>>>>> Oh, man.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Btw, my doctor looks like a cartoonish, fat, dark, unshaved beaver...
>>>>>>> Sometimes he writes the wrong month on the prescription and I get in
>>>>>>> trouble with my pharmacist.
>>>>>>> Or just goes on sick leave for 6 months.
>>>>>>> Fucked up shrink, this one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What did you mean by "I am not sure if you have insurance but if
>>>>>>> you don't you can call your country health service but that probably would
>>>>>>> not work for I believe you live in another country so maybe they have
>>>>>>> something similar."
>>>>>>> Insurance for what?
>>>>>>> I'm in Montreal, Canada.
>>>>>>> Healthcare is free, as well as many other things. I love this
>>>>>>> country btw.
>>>>>>> But insurance for what?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wish you well
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sergy,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I went to NA meetings about 22 years ago and it did not work; why I
>>>>>>>> don't know.  Maybe I was not ready, maybe I could of tried harder but I
>>>>>>>> think it was because the heroin had a Very strong hold on me.  I started
>>>>>>>> going to meetings 2.5 yrs ago, 13 months after my Ibo detox.  It helps keep
>>>>>>>> me clean, see besides getting off dope the idea is to change yourself,
>>>>>>>> change your way of thinking and the friends that can endanger your
>>>>>>>> recovery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe you and the GF can then go out and eat or whatever, kind of
>>>>>>>> like a night out.  If your going to get clean together and live together
>>>>>>>> you got to decide on what kind of aftercare you both like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many addicts are loners and do not join groups so I understand,
>>>>>>>> kind like you feel like you don't fit in right.  I know what ya mean it can
>>>>>>>> be kind of awkward at first but as time goes on you will learn to talk and
>>>>>>>> get to know the people and things get better, it takes time.  It seems like
>>>>>>>> addiction gives the slave limited options.  For example if you want to quit
>>>>>>>> it is ct, taper or Ibo, I would say sub and met but they really do not
>>>>>>>> count and if you do a taper you can get low but still have to do somewhat
>>>>>>>> of a ct.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since this is so important and you really want to quit why not give
>>>>>>>> NA another try.  It may work better since you have a choice and the courts
>>>>>>>> or detox center can't make you go.  I would say go to the meetings now so
>>>>>>>> after the detox your ready and started to change your life.  NA or AA can
>>>>>>>> help you change your life and I guess a shrink or therapist could also.
>>>>>>>>  Choose which you want to try and make sure the GF likes it also.  There is
>>>>>>>> little reason to mention Ibo at an NA meeting for in some respects they are
>>>>>>>> closed minded.  Guess you could say the same about a Dr thinking how is
>>>>>>>> some African root going to help some addict.  They forget that most drugs
>>>>>>>> have their origin in plants.  Again go to several meetings and see if ya
>>>>>>>> fit in.  What I am saying is do something for aftercare, it is very
>>>>>>>> important and you want to put the odds in your favor and do all ya can do
>>>>>>>> to have a happy life with your GF and you both live clean.  It can happen
>>>>>>>> but you have to do your work as Ibo can not do it all by it's self.  Have
>>>>>>>> you talked about aftercare with your GF?  You should talk to her and see
>>>>>>>> what she would like, remember your in this together.  I am not sure if you
>>>>>>>> have insurance but if you don't you can call your country health service
>>>>>>>> but that probably would not work for I believe you live in another country
>>>>>>>> so maybe they have something similar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jim,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks Jim.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When you say "try it now while you're using", do you mean
>>>>>>>>> maintenance?
>>>>>>>>> We haven't used since a year'n'half now, just Methadone and
>>>>>>>>> Subaxone.
>>>>>>>>> That's for opioids. For alcohol, I am Russian, but I strangely
>>>>>>>>> hate it.
>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>> We do take psychedelics when going to forest festivals or other
>>>>>>>>> "psychonaut" activities.
>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>> I heard many times from sober people that NA/AA are almost
>>>>>>>>> mandatory for recovery. I don't know... I've tried, at least 3-4 times in
>>>>>>>>> the city (thats not counting the dozens of times I've been to meetings
>>>>>>>>> while in therapy) and it didn't stick...
>>>>>>>>> AA seems more serious, more stable, but they are NOT junkies!
>>>>>>>>> NA... I don't know.
>>>>>>>>> I think I haven't found my... in french it's called "groupe
>>>>>>>>> d'appartenance"- belonging crowd, a crowd where you "belong"...
>>>>>>>>> I know I have to try more places. I think I'll go on the weekend.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wish you well
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sergey,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You say >>> For me personally, I'm terrified of relapsing or
>>>>>>>>>> otherwise fucking up an Iboga flood.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If not Iboga, WHAT THEN!!!??? <<<
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are all are terrified of relapsing that's why I and some of
>>>>>>>>>> the people who stay off go to meetings and others go to CBT or whatever
>>>>>>>>>> works.  Look at all the people on the forum who have done Ibo 4 and 5
>>>>>>>>>> times, it doesn't always work the first time.  You got to do everything you
>>>>>>>>>> can to stay clean.  As far as NA goes some people like it and others don't
>>>>>>>>>> so do what works.  The NA people say go to 90 meetings in 90 days that can
>>>>>>>>>> help.  If your going to go to NA meeting after your Ibo treatment I think
>>>>>>>>>> that is a good idea.  It only cost a $1 and that is if you have it.  See,
>>>>>>>>>> the Ibo gets rid of the cravings for maybe a month or so and if you start
>>>>>>>>>> your program of going to meetings you can condition your self and insulate
>>>>>>>>>> yourself to some degree.  It takes time getting to know people at meetings
>>>>>>>>>> but for me it is a night on the town my version of cheers and I see people
>>>>>>>>>> and know them and they know me; I tended to isolate a lot and it is good to
>>>>>>>>>> get out of the house and meet people.  I have been using too long and it is
>>>>>>>>>> time for me to stay off drugs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You seem like a decent guy, there are a lot of decent people on
>>>>>>>>>> this forum and they try hard, some make it and some don't but you got to
>>>>>>>>>> keep trying.  Now, as I mentioned in another post about statistics the
>>>>>>>>>> statistics do no know if your going to meetings with your GF  or that you
>>>>>>>>>> dumped you using friends for often an addict has no friends but drug users.
>>>>>>>>>>  If you drink you should quit for if you get a few drinks in you you lose
>>>>>>>>>> your inhibitions and may end up using.  It took me a long time to realize I
>>>>>>>>>> got to change my way of thinking.  It don't come easy, you may not need
>>>>>>>>>> outside help but it is there why not take advantage of it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you and your GF  try a meeting sometime this week and
>>>>>>>>>> see what they are like.  If you like it you got free therapy and the wisdom
>>>>>>>>>> you pick up is remarkable.  Go to more that one meeting, maybe go to 2 or 3
>>>>>>>>>> different ones and see which one you like the best.  Then go to 2 or 3 a
>>>>>>>>>> week but try and make it a habit, go if your tired, go when your really
>>>>>>>>>> don't want to.  It may be a good idea to try it out now while your using.
>>>>>>>>>>  This is more important than what people realize.  If your serious about
>>>>>>>>>> getting off drugs take your fist step now before you do you Ibo.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Val,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The article, its AWESOME!
>>>>>>>>>>> What I particularly like, is that BOTH VIEWS are thoroughly
>>>>>>>>>>> discussed:
>>>>>>>>>>> -Benefits of harm reduction-maintenance programs
>>>>>>>>>>> -and their huge minuses
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But like the author says: today it's pretty much the only
>>>>>>>>>>> options available for the rat-race, the hell of addiction.
>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, we know that there's Iboga, a vicious cycle of
>>>>>>>>>>> addiction interrupter.
>>>>>>>>>>> But even for that magic steps need to be taken.
>>>>>>>>>>> For me personally, I'm terrified of relapsing or otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>> fucking up an Iboga flood.
>>>>>>>>>>> If not Iboga, WHAT THEN!!!???
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I found this online. It is definitely worth reading!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Great Suboxone Debate
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.thefix.com/content/best-kept-secret-addiction-treatment?page=all
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2013 12:11 PM, "junkboy" <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i dont know. everyone down here is abusing sub to  get high.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no matter what the paperwork says. it gets ME high as hell.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Junkboy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> About the " getting high" part, I was very curious to find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out if Sub actually gets you high.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have two people in my life whom I can ask about it and be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the answer is not biased:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -My girl whom I live with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -and a close acquaintance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With my girl, it's clear. We experimented EVERYTHING.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taking 80mg, different routes of delivery, etc..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does NOT get her high even a tiny bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Compared to Methadone, where you still feel the "opiated"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect, Sub doen't do ANYTHING for her except keep her stable, FEELING
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NORMAL and never in withdrawals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the friend, he actually switched back to Methadone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EXACTLY for those reasons:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -he could't get any "buzz" out of sub
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -he couldn't take any other opioids coz they would not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "breakthrough" the receptor blockade
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This guy never stopped using, so these properties of Sub were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just way too much for him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also makes a lot of sense knowing the pharma-dynamics of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sub (buprenorphine):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -PARTIAL AGONIST/ANTAGONIST (explains why no high as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intristic activity on the brains opioid receptors is LESS then with first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line opioids)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Extremely high affinity (force with which it attaches to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> receptors)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Ceiling effect (take 5000mg or 32mg, same effect)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Slow receptor dissociation (very slow onset of withdrawals)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just please don't confuse this post with me PROMOTING Sub.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above are MAYBE Sub's convenient points, but I'm fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aware its a nasty long-life chemical human made, big-pharma/big money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (you ever looked at it's chemical name/composition???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2*S*)-2-[(5*R*,6*R*,7*R*,14*S*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> )-9α-Cyclopropylmethyl-4,5-epoxy-6,14-ethano-3-hydroxy-6-methoxymorphinan-7-yl]-3,3-dimethylbutan-2-ol)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> !!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I actually listen to what people are saying and doing lots of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are very interesting points on SUBSUX forum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I still can't figure out exactly WHY and IF Sub is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually OBJECTIVELY more poison then any other long life shit...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And I am getting the feeling it's all a matter of personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamics and specifics. Social, body type, recovery plan,etc...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:26 PM, junkboy <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why? because of all the opiates ive taken sub was damn near
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible to quit. when i got to 2mg the anxiety was so bad that i would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of cut off a finger to make it stop. it affected me a lot deeper than any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other opiate and triggered my flight or fight response. ive cold turkeyed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a lot of opiates, and the sub was intolerable to quit. it was so damn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> horrible. i was not even using sub very long... it got me so damn high.. i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont know who says it doesnt get you high... i was high for 2 days the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first time i tried it...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Junkboy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 2:30 PM, junkboy <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what sucks the most? suboxone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sister,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, I will.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a serious interest to dig deeper into suboxone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And what better way to do it then from peoples PERSONAL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a remarque:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In that forum, there's also:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -OPIOIDS SUCK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -METHADONE SUCK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -BENZOS SUCK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, etc, etc....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a shame there's just no clear answer on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *WHAT SUCKS MOST???*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Sister <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poison is not new.. Been around a long time.  You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to read how it affects addicts go to subsucks.comor opiated detox and recovery.  Read it from the mouth of those who fell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smooth journey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sister
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2013, at 12:12 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mroz,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " ...with sao's again since I no longer take sub and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the high kindof sucked, like the whole things was not what it used to be..."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you explain what you mean by "not like it used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I gathering a kind of an intuitive research still based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of science/individual experience on what Subaxon does to peoples brains.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very important to me: my girl's on it, and this shit is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So far so good, but how can one be sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Long term consequences, irreversible damage, permanent brain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chemistry misbalance....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brrrr.... God forbid....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tnx!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:11 AM, L.N. Mroz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leomroz24 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yea thats me lol. Yes im so tired of the ups and downs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even recently after being of subs for 3 years and not really getting high,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I started messing around with sao's again since I no longer take sub and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the high kindof sucked, like the whole things was not what it used to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mroz,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hear you, though I never had to go through this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I'm sorry Mroz, I'm still a bit confused coz there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot of new names to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you the one who's going through a transition from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sub to Kratom to finally get clean with Ibogaine?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I sure wish you success.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:25 PM, L.N. Mroz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leomroz24 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No problemo. Ya benzo is very tough to stop, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse than opiates, especially xanax. I did cold turkey when I moved away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both xanax and opiates, that next day I ended up checking into the ER for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benzo withdrawal. It was the most mentally draining/tough daily battles I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever attempted and I was clean 1 month and a few days after leaving the ER,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet anxiety and depression was a still a problem, so I finally gave in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although week 3 or 4 I did start to feel a little bit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benzos are BY FAR THE WORST SUBSTANCE to get off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's a lot of documented proof to that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same as alcohol, benzos act on the GABBA receptors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are part of the system that is responsible for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HOMEOSTASIS of the brain, i.e. the BALANCE between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "up/stimulation" and "down/suppression" states of the brain and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consequently, the body.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've personally seen a man fall in convulsions and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being driven away in an ambulance, and another one roll down the stairs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also driven away, but ending up in coma in a hospital. Both times during an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted quick detox in one of those "detox therapies".  Both men were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quitting alcohol, which is the same shit as benzos, only not so bad....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's a wiki quote...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Post-acute benzodiazepine withdrawal[edit<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome&action=edit&section=4>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See also: Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Disturbances in mental function can persist for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several months or years after withdrawal from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benzodiazepines<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_benzodiazepines>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Psychotic depression persisting for more than a year following
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benzodiazepine withdrawal has been documented in the medical literature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patient had no prior psychiatric history. The symptoms reported in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patient included, major depressive disorder<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  with psychotic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotic> features,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including persistent depressed mood, poor concentration, decreased
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appetite <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appetite>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> insomnia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomnia>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anhedonia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anergia and psychomotor retardation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychomotor_retardation>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patient also experienced paranoid ideation (believing she was being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poisoned and persecuted by co-employees), accompanied by sensory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallucinations. Symptoms developed after abrupt withdrawal of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chlordiazepoxide and persisted for 14 months. Various psychiatric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medications were trialed which were unsuccessful in alleviating the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symptomatology. Symptoms were completely relieved by recommending
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chlordiazepoxide for irritable bowel syndrome 14 months later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [20]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-20> Another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case report, reported similar phenomenon in a female patient who abruptly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reduced her diazepam dosage from 30 mg to 5 mg per day. She developed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric shock sensations, depersonalisation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalisation>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> , anxiety <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dizziness <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizziness>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left temporal lobe EEG spiking activity,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallucinations<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinations>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual perceptual and sensory distortions which persisted for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [21]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-tuobicp-21>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A clinical trial of patients taking the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benzodiazepine alprazolam (Xanax<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanax>)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for as little as 8 weeks triggered protracted symptoms of memory deficits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which were still present after up to 8 weeks post cessation of alprazolam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [22]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-22>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Treatment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [edit<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome&action=edit&section=5>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The condition gradually improves over a period of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time which can range from six months to several years in more severe cases.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [23]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-23>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [24]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-24>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Acamprosate<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acamprosate>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  has been found to be effective in alleviating some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the post acute withdrawal symptoms of alcohol withdrawal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [25]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-25>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [26]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-26>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Carbamazepine<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbamazepine>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  or trazodone<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trazodone>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  may also be effective in the treatment of post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acute withdrawal syndrome.[27]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-27>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [28]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-28>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [29]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-29>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cognitive behavioral therapy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can also help the post acute withdrawal syndrome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially when cravings are a prominent feature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [30]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-30>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 9:27 PM, star ray <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earthshealing at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LN,  thanks, I missed your message  about where to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order the phenibut and I found some on ebay, I will capsule it up.  Now my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yoga friend sent me this link:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.marsvenus.com/p/lithium-orotate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this lithium oranatate is suppose to help with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brain, depression and weaning off meds so check out this website,  It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not that expensive  21.00 with shipping for 120 day supply. I have really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been stuggling with depression after going off valium cold turkey 3 1/2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months ago (that has been a real nightmare but getting better)  they say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benzo's are harder to get off of than heroin..... it was not fun,  I really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't know how i did it, almost as bad as sub. I must be into wanting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "complete body sensation"  that is sick in its own way for sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace to all ,  Star
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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