[Ibogaine] phenibut and litium orantate

Sergey Sibirian sibirianfox at gmail.com
Wed Oct 16 19:15:48 CDT 2013


Jim,

Yea...
I've seen the movie "sicko" Michael Moore...
I don't know if it accurately represents the US health care, but it seems
like it does.
That's just wrong man...
I remember Obama tried implementing a more accessible Health system, which
didn't work obviously.
Too huge the money involved.
But what struck me the most, is those f**king hordes of brainwashed zombies
that were demonstrating AGAINST!!!
?????
It's the very people that would benefit from it!!!
Propaganda and mass-hypnose is really refining itself in US. It's either
that or the people are getting much more stupid, I'm not sure. Maybe a
combo.

:)

Sergey.
Loves Canada :')


On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Sergy,
>
> Many people in the US do not have insurance and therefore can not go to
> the Dr, you must wait until
> your nearly dead then go to the emergency room at
> the hospital.  Now for mental health problems you
> can sometimes call your county health department
> and get counseling for free.  Also if you get an STD
> (sexual transmitted disease) they will want you to
> come in for a shot or pills for they do not want you
> spreading to others.
>
>   - JIM
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:02 AM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I should let everyone know I am on benzos so maybe that's why the anxiety
>> wasn't that bad for me when I switched from Sub to Kratom . But since I
>> decided to do Ibogaine 3 months ago I went from 10-12 mgs of xanex to 4-6
>> mgs of colonzapam.  And I feel ok. Its not BAM like xanex but it just makes
>> me feel ok throughout the day. I also don't take more then prescribed,
>> where with xanex that was always happening and I had seizures because of
>> it. Based on my experience
>> I would recommend anyone trying to quit xanex goes to Colonzapam. Mg to
>> Mg they are the same,
>> <3 Val
>>  On Oct 15, 2013 8:09 PM, "Sergey Sibirian" <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Jim,
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> It's funny how you mention that "AA and doctors are somewhat
>>> close-minded..."
>>> On the dot.
>>> I came to the same conclusion.
>>> I guess NA/AA have to be that way, after all they promote COMPLETE
>>> abstinence.
>>> Another thing I find... kind of wrong, is that even after 20-30 years of
>>> sobriety, members stilll announce themselves as "alcoholics" or "addicts",
>>> etc...
>>> I would personally tried to move on to another level... At least it
>>> seems like that's what I wanted to do.
>>> Just don't get me wrong: I DO KNOW THE GOOD SIDES OF AA, their strong
>>> sides, the benefits of participating.
>>> Like I said, about 90% of recovered addicts that I know are all in AA/NA.
>>>
>>> I'm not even mentioning my god-damn doctor...
>>> And it's not like he's shitty or anything... He's actually more or less
>>> decent as a doctor and even as a human being... But I don't know what the
>>> f**k happens to these shrinks. I mean, career happens, life happens, age
>>> happens, I don't f**kin know. If I was a doctor and there was a chemical
>>> compound that could reset an addict's brain, remove the neurological part
>>> of the habit, I would go crazy about it. I would push for research, do
>>> testing, collect experiences, maybe even do some underground trials. But
>>> NOT JUST STUPIDLY IGNORE THE WHOLE THING!!! When I ask him about Iboga, he
>>> makes this face like I just said a name of an actor he saw somewhere in the
>>> end-titles a long time ago... Like "sounds vaguely familiar, what's that
>>> shit again?"
>>> Oh, man.....
>>>
>>> Btw, my doctor looks like a cartoonish, fat, dark, unshaved beaver...
>>> Sometimes he writes the wrong month on the prescription and I get in
>>> trouble with my pharmacist.
>>> Or just goes on sick leave for 6 months.
>>> Fucked up shrink, this one.
>>>
>>> What did you mean by "I am not sure if you have insurance but if you
>>> don't you can call your country health service but that probably would not
>>> work for I believe you live in another country so maybe they have something
>>> similar."
>>> Insurance for what?
>>> I'm in Montreal, Canada.
>>> Healthcare is free, as well as many other things. I love this country
>>> btw.
>>> But insurance for what?
>>>
>>> Wish you well
>>>
>>> Sergey
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Sergy,
>>>>
>>>> I went to NA meetings about 22 years ago and it did not work; why I
>>>> don't know.  Maybe I was not ready, maybe I could of tried harder but I
>>>> think it was because the heroin had a Very strong hold on me.  I started
>>>> going to meetings 2.5 yrs ago, 13 months after my Ibo detox.  It helps keep
>>>> me clean, see besides getting off dope the idea is to change yourself,
>>>> change your way of thinking and the friends that can endanger your
>>>> recovery.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you and the GF can then go out and eat or whatever, kind of like
>>>> a night out.  If your going to get clean together and live together you got
>>>> to decide on what kind of aftercare you both like.
>>>>
>>>> Many addicts are loners and do not join groups so I understand, kind
>>>> like you feel like you don't fit in right.  I know what ya mean it can be
>>>> kind of awkward at first but as time goes on you will learn to talk and get
>>>> to know the people and things get better, it takes time.  It seems like
>>>> addiction gives the slave limited options.  For example if you want to quit
>>>> it is ct, taper or Ibo, I would say sub and met but they really do not
>>>> count and if you do a taper you can get low but still have to do somewhat
>>>> of a ct.
>>>>
>>>> Since this is so important and you really want to quit why not give NA
>>>> another try.  It may work better since you have a choice and the courts or
>>>> detox center can't make you go.  I would say go to the meetings now so
>>>> after the detox your ready and started to change your life.  NA or AA can
>>>> help you change your life and I guess a shrink or therapist could also.
>>>>  Choose which you want to try and make sure the GF likes it also.  There is
>>>> little reason to mention Ibo at an NA meeting for in some respects they are
>>>> closed minded.  Guess you could say the same about a Dr thinking how is
>>>> some African root going to help some addict.  They forget that most drugs
>>>> have their origin in plants.  Again go to several meetings and see if ya
>>>> fit in.  What I am saying is do something for aftercare, it is very
>>>> important and you want to put the odds in your favor and do all ya can do
>>>> to have a happy life with your GF and you both live clean.  It can happen
>>>> but you have to do your work as Ibo can not do it all by it's self.  Have
>>>> you talked about aftercare with your GF?  You should talk to her and see
>>>> what she would like, remember your in this together.  I am not sure if you
>>>> have insurance but if you don't you can call your country health service
>>>> but that probably would not work for I believe you live in another country
>>>> so maybe they have something similar.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>   - JIM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jim,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks Jim.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you say "try it now while you're using", do you mean maintenance?
>>>>> We haven't used since a year'n'half now, just Methadone and Subaxone.
>>>>> That's for opioids. For alcohol, I am Russian, but I strangely hate it.
>>>>> :)
>>>>> We do take psychedelics when going to forest festivals or other
>>>>> "psychonaut" activities.
>>>>> :)
>>>>> I heard many times from sober people that NA/AA are almost mandatory
>>>>> for recovery. I don't know... I've tried, at least 3-4 times in the city
>>>>> (thats not counting the dozens of times I've been to meetings while in
>>>>> therapy) and it didn't stick...
>>>>> AA seems more serious, more stable, but they are NOT junkies!
>>>>> NA... I don't know.
>>>>> I think I haven't found my... in french it's called "groupe
>>>>> d'appartenance"- belonging crowd, a crowd where you "belong"...
>>>>> I know I have to try more places. I think I'll go on the weekend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wish you well
>>>>>
>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sergey,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You say >>> For me personally, I'm terrified of relapsing or
>>>>>> otherwise fucking up an Iboga flood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If not Iboga, WHAT THEN!!!??? <<<
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are all are terrified of relapsing that's why I and some of the
>>>>>> people who stay off go to meetings and others go to CBT or whatever works.
>>>>>>  Look at all the people on the forum who have done Ibo 4 and 5 times, it
>>>>>> doesn't always work the first time.  You got to do everything you can to
>>>>>> stay clean.  As far as NA goes some people like it and others don't so do
>>>>>> what works.  The NA people say go to 90 meetings in 90 days that can help.
>>>>>>  If your going to go to NA meeting after your Ibo treatment I think that is
>>>>>> a good idea.  It only cost a $1 and that is if you have it.  See, the Ibo
>>>>>> gets rid of the cravings for maybe a month or so and if you start your
>>>>>> program of going to meetings you can condition your self and insulate
>>>>>> yourself to some degree.  It takes time getting to know people at meetings
>>>>>> but for me it is a night on the town my version of cheers and I see people
>>>>>> and know them and they know me; I tended to isolate a lot and it is good to
>>>>>> get out of the house and meet people.  I have been using too long and it is
>>>>>> time for me to stay off drugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You seem like a decent guy, there are a lot of decent people on this
>>>>>> forum and they try hard, some make it and some don't but you got to keep
>>>>>> trying.  Now, as I mentioned in another post about statistics the
>>>>>> statistics do no know if your going to meetings with your GF  or that you
>>>>>> dumped you using friends for often an addict has no friends but drug users.
>>>>>>  If you drink you should quit for if you get a few drinks in you you lose
>>>>>> your inhibitions and may end up using.  It took me a long time to realize I
>>>>>> got to change my way of thinking.  It don't come easy, you may not need
>>>>>> outside help but it is there why not take advantage of it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't you and your GF  try a meeting sometime this week and see
>>>>>> what they are like.  If you like it you got free therapy and the wisdom you
>>>>>> pick up is remarkable.  Go to more that one meeting, maybe go to 2 or 3
>>>>>> different ones and see which one you like the best.  Then go to 2 or 3 a
>>>>>> week but try and make it a habit, go if your tired, go when your really
>>>>>> don't want to.  It may be a good idea to try it out now while your using.
>>>>>>  This is more important than what people realize.  If your serious about
>>>>>> getting off drugs take your fist step now before you do you Ibo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Val,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article, its AWESOME!
>>>>>>> What I particularly like, is that BOTH VIEWS are thoroughly
>>>>>>> discussed:
>>>>>>> -Benefits of harm reduction-maintenance programs
>>>>>>> -and their huge minuses
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But like the author says: today it's pretty much the only options
>>>>>>> available for the rat-race, the hell of addiction.
>>>>>>> Of course, we know that there's Iboga, a vicious cycle of addiction
>>>>>>> interrupter.
>>>>>>> But even for that magic steps need to be taken.
>>>>>>> For me personally, I'm terrified of relapsing or otherwise fucking
>>>>>>> up an Iboga flood.
>>>>>>> If not Iboga, WHAT THEN!!!???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I found this online. It is definitely worth reading!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Great Suboxone Debate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.thefix.com/content/best-kept-secret-addiction-treatment?page=all
>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2013 12:11 PM, "junkboy" <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i dont know. everyone down here is abusing sub to  get high. no
>>>>>>>>> matter what the paperwork says. it gets ME high as hell.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Junkboy,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> About the " getting high" part, I was very curious to find out if
>>>>>>>>>> Sub actually gets you high.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have two people in my life whom I can ask about it and be sure
>>>>>>>>>> the answer is not biased:
>>>>>>>>>> -My girl whom I live with
>>>>>>>>>> -and a close acquaintance
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With my girl, it's clear. We experimented EVERYTHING.
>>>>>>>>>> Taking 80mg, different routes of delivery, etc..
>>>>>>>>>> It does NOT get her high even a tiny bit.
>>>>>>>>>> Compared to Methadone, where you still feel the "opiated" effect,
>>>>>>>>>> Sub doen't do ANYTHING for her except keep her stable, FEELING NORMAL and
>>>>>>>>>> never in withdrawals.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for the friend, he actually switched back to Methadone EXACTLY
>>>>>>>>>> for those reasons:
>>>>>>>>>> -he could't get any "buzz" out of sub
>>>>>>>>>> -he couldn't take any other opioids coz they would not
>>>>>>>>>> "breakthrough" the receptor blockade
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This guy never stopped using, so these properties of Sub were
>>>>>>>>>> just way too much for him.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It also makes a lot of sense knowing the pharma-dynamics of Sub
>>>>>>>>>> (buprenorphine):
>>>>>>>>>> -PARTIAL AGONIST/ANTAGONIST (explains why no high as the
>>>>>>>>>> intristic activity on the brains opioid receptors is LESS then with first
>>>>>>>>>> line opioids)
>>>>>>>>>> -Extremely high affinity (force with which it attaches to
>>>>>>>>>> receptors)
>>>>>>>>>> -Ceiling effect (take 5000mg or 32mg, same effect)
>>>>>>>>>> -Slow receptor dissociation (very slow onset of withdrawals)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just please don't confuse this post with me PROMOTING Sub.
>>>>>>>>>> The above are MAYBE Sub's convenient points, but I'm fully aware
>>>>>>>>>> its a nasty long-life chemical human made, big-pharma/big money substance.
>>>>>>>>>> (you ever looked at it's chemical name/composition???
>>>>>>>>>> (2*S*)-2-[(5*R*,6*R*,7*R*,14*S*
>>>>>>>>>> )-9α-Cyclopropylmethyl-4,5-epoxy-6,14-ethano-3-hydroxy-6-methoxymorphinan-7-yl]-3,3-dimethylbutan-2-ol)
>>>>>>>>>> !!!
>>>>>>>>>> I actually listen to what people are saying and doing lots of
>>>>>>>>>> research.
>>>>>>>>>> There are very interesting points on SUBSUX forum.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I still can't figure out exactly WHY and IF Sub is actually
>>>>>>>>>> OBJECTIVELY more poison then any other long life shit...
>>>>>>>>>> And I am getting the feeling it's all a matter of personal
>>>>>>>>>> dynamics and specifics. Social, body type, recovery plan,etc...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:26 PM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> why? because of all the opiates ive taken sub was damn near
>>>>>>>>>>> impossible to quit. when i got to 2mg the anxiety was so bad that i would
>>>>>>>>>>> of cut off a finger to make it stop. it affected me a lot deeper than any
>>>>>>>>>>> other opiate and triggered my flight or fight response. ive cold turkeyed
>>>>>>>>>>> from a lot of opiates, and the sub was intolerable to quit. it was so damn
>>>>>>>>>>> horrible. i was not even using sub very long... it got me so damn high.. i
>>>>>>>>>>> dont know who says it doesnt get you high... i was high for 2 days the
>>>>>>>>>>> first time i tried it...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Junkboy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 2:30 PM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what sucks the most? suboxone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sister,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, I will.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a serious interest to dig deeper into suboxone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And what better way to do it then from peoples PERSONAL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a remarque:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In that forum, there's also:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -OPIOIDS SUCK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -METHADONE SUCK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -BENZOS SUCK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, etc, etc....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a shame there's just no clear answer on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *WHAT SUCKS MOST???*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Sister <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poison is not new.. Been around a long time.  You want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to read how it affects addicts go to subsucks.com or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opiated detox and recovery.  Read it from the mouth of those who fell for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smooth journey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sister
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2013, at 12:12 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mroz,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> " ...with sao's again since I no longer take sub and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high kindof sucked, like the whole things was not what it used to be..."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you explain what you mean by "not like it used to be"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I gathering a kind of an intuitive research still based of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science/individual experience on what Subaxon does to peoples brains.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very important to me: my girl's on it, and this shit is new.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So far so good, but how can one be sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Long term consequences, irreversible damage, permanent brain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chemistry misbalance....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brrrr.... God forbid....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tnx!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:11 AM, L.N. Mroz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leomroz24 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yea thats me lol. Yes im so tired of the ups and downs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even recently after being of subs for 3 years and not really getting high,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I started messing around with sao's again since I no longer take sub and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the high kindof sucked, like the whole things was not what it used to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mroz,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hear you, though I never had to go through this myself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I'm sorry Mroz, I'm still a bit confused coz there's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot of new names to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you the one who's going through a transition from Sub
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Kratom to finally get clean with Ibogaine?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I sure wish you success.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:25 PM, L.N. Mroz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leomroz24 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No problemo. Ya benzo is very tough to stop, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse than opiates, especially xanax. I did cold turkey when I moved away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both xanax and opiates, that next day I ended up checking into the ER for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benzo withdrawal. It was the most mentally draining/tough daily battles I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever attempted and I was clean 1 month and a few days after leaving the ER,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet anxiety and depression was a still a problem, so I finally gave in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although week 3 or 4 I did start to feel a little bit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Sergey Sibirian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benzos are BY FAR THE WORST SUBSTANCE to get off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's a lot of documented proof to that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same as alcohol, benzos act on the GABBA receptors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are part of the system that is responsible for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HOMEOSTASIS of the brain, i.e. the BALANCE between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "up/stimulation" and "down/suppression" states of the brain and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consequently, the body.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've personally seen a man fall in convulsions and being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driven away in an ambulance, and another one roll down the stairs, also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driven away, but ending up in coma in a hospital. Both times during an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempted quick detox in one of those "detox therapies".  Both men were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quitting alcohol, which is the same shit as benzos, only not so bad....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's a wiki quote...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Post-acute benzodiazepine withdrawal[edit<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome&action=edit&section=4>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See also: Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Disturbances in mental function can persist for several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months or years after withdrawal from benzodiazepines<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_benzodiazepines>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Psychotic depression persisting for more than a year following
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benzodiazepine withdrawal has been documented in the medical literature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patient had no prior psychiatric history. The symptoms reported in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patient included, major depressive disorder<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  with psychotic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotic> features,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including persistent depressed mood, poor concentration, decreased
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appetite <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appetite>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> insomnia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomnia>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anhedonia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anergia and psychomotor retardation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychomotor_retardation>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patient also experienced paranoid ideation (believing she was being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poisoned and persecuted by co-employees), accompanied by sensory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallucinations. Symptoms developed after abrupt withdrawal of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chlordiazepoxide and persisted for 14 months. Various psychiatric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medications were trialed which were unsuccessful in alleviating the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symptomatology. Symptoms were completely relieved by recommending
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chlordiazepoxide for irritable bowel syndrome 14 months later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [20]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-20> Another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case report, reported similar phenomenon in a female patient who abruptly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reduced her diazepam dosage from 30 mg to 5 mg per day. She developed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric shock sensations, depersonalisation<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalisation>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> , anxiety <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dizziness <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizziness>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left temporal lobe EEG spiking activity, hallucinations<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinations>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual perceptual and sensory distortions which persisted for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [21]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-tuobicp-21>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A clinical trial of patients taking the benzodiazepine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alprazolam (Xanax <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanax>)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for as little as 8 weeks triggered protracted symptoms of memory deficits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which were still present after up to 8 weeks post cessation of alprazolam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [22]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-22>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Treatment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [edit<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome&action=edit&section=5>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The condition gradually improves over a period of time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which can range from six months to several years in more severe cases.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [23]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-23>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [24]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-24>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Acamprosate <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acamprosate> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been found to be effective in alleviating some of the post acute withdrawal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symptoms of alcohol withdrawal.[25]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-25>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [26]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-26>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Carbamazepine<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbamazepine>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  or trazodone <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trazodone> may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also be effective in the treatment of post acute withdrawal syndrome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [27]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-27>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [28]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-28>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [29]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-29>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cognitive behavioral therapy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can also help the post acute withdrawal syndrome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially when cravings are a prominent feature.[30]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome#cite_note-30>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 9:27 PM, star ray <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earthshealing at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LN,  thanks, I missed your message  about where to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order the phenibut and I found some on ebay, I will capsule it up.  Now my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yoga friend sent me this link:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.marsvenus.com/p/lithium-orotate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this lithium oranatate is suppose to help with brain,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depression and weaning off meds so check out this website,  It is not that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expensive  21.00 with shipping for 120 day supply. I have really been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuggling with depression after going off valium cold turkey 3 1/2 months
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago (that has been a real nightmare but getting better)  they say benzo's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are harder to get off of than heroin..... it was not fun,  I really don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how i did it, almost as bad as sub. I must be into wanting "complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> body sensation"  that is sick in its own way for sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace to all ,  Star
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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