[Ibogaine] Subaxone... Good, bad.... what's the point of reference???

Jeff G jeffgallop at gmail.com
Mon Oct 14 14:21:30 CDT 2013


Val
Did the Dr at the er know you were on or should I say off sub?
Just curious.
Hope your well
JeffG
On Oct 14, 2013 4:31 AM, "Valarie" <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:

> That explains the horrible migraines I started getting just after a few
> weeks of being on Sub.
> I didn't know it was that common.
> When I first got off Sub, I had a migraine that was so intolerable I went
> to the E.R, I was about 3 days off, the doctor gave me 2mgs of IV Dilodid
> and then another 2mgs IV an hour later. It did not touch the headache or
> give me a buzz!
> It couldn't break through the Sub even after 3 days!
>
> Lotsof Love, Val
> On Oct 13, 2013 11:16 AM, "Sergey Sibirian" <sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> People,
>>
>>
>> On sister's advise, I went to the website called SUBSUX.
>>
>> Here are two articles I find the most interesting/containing new info:
>>
>> Pre-Induction-You are fed up with your Drug Of Choice, You have tried to
>> quit many many times on your own, you are so fed up with the fatigue, with
>> the scoring, you dose just kept getting higher.
>>
>> You have heard about suboxone through a friend, read about it , your Dr.
>> spoke to you about it- you have only been told/heard great things (You may
>> have even been warned, but you are so fed up with your addiction you will
>> try anything.you might even swear it will only be short term)
>>
>> Post-Induction- (if you get started on the right dose)
>> You feel GREAT, everything you imagined it would be it delivered on.. You
>> feel normal again.(being a addict you may even experiment with a little
>> extra just to see if you can feel better than normal) (a lot of people get
>> started on way too high of a dose so they feel dizzy, nauseous, and get
>> that infamous bup headache)
>>
>> Once you feel normal again, you have extra energy , you are no longer in
>> that loop of addiction, things just feel awesome. This is referred to as
>> the "honeymoon phase", you want to shout it to the world, you tell anyone
>> how great it is.you want to turn everyone on to this fantastic new
>> discovery.
>>
>> Sort of like the way somebody turned us on to drugs for the first time
>> because they thought they were great too!
>>
>> The Reality-
>> While on sub, your pupils are still pinned, you ARE still taking a opioid
>> every single day, you are still constipated all the time. Sub is really
>> strong, and the life is so much longer that your dosing is less frequent.
>> So your old habits are initially broken. You say to yourself, why would I
>> want to get off this when its making me feel so good/productive.
>>
>> The TRUTH-
>> You really are not as normal as you think. Your perception of the real
>> normal was distorted by your previous drug use. In actuality you are just
>> not as high as you were before, being a partial agonist it only gets you
>> high to a certain level. Your perceptions, feelings, actions are just
>> slightly distorted. If you dont believe this, give a small piece of sub to
>> a straight person and ask them how they feel, I tried that little
>> experiment it wont be normal
>>
>> The Failure-
>> After being on sub for a random amount of time- (usually 6months to 3
>> years) you begin to realize that you are beginning to feel foggy, distant,
>> or removed. Your dosing will be needed to get out of bed, it will become
>> your morning cup of coffee, you will plan your life around your dose, your
>> old DOC behavioral habits will begin to revolve around the sub. normal will
>> become disgusting.the fog will get worse and worse. Your fatigue will get
>> more frequent. This is caused by a combination of decreased
>> neurotransmitter production and temporary shut down of specific receptor
>> sites.
>>
>> Trying to stop-
>> Every week you swear to yourself you will start to taper, you make
>> declarations like quitting smoking (by summer I will stop) every time you
>> see the Dr you mention quitting or cutting back, he/she just smiles and
>> gives you another script. You start to feel guilty about dosing around
>> others, you realize that this is just another drug. With sub or MMT since
>> the life is so long your brain loses this event horizon its just always
>> high. This is one of the reasons that the wds and PAWS/Rebound are so
>> notoriously long with longer life opioids, the receptors have shut down
>> that naturally produce because they are unused. On sub your brain is always
>> flooded with med. With other opioids these receptors still fire
>> occasionally when the drug wears down, this is why wds are not as long from
>> other drugs, and PAWS is more infrequent.
>>
>> *By RATCH*
>>
>>
>> Why is sub so much harder to get off of ? And why is UROD and Naltrexone
>> a waste of time with sub...
>> And why is using regular opioids to get off sub not such a bad idea.
>>
>> Oh and "SAO" means Short Acting Opioid ..like pain pills/morphine
>>
>> When you do regular opioids on a daily basis, there are peaks and lows in
>> your high. Not always detectable but present. And if you sleep longer than
>> 4 hours a night while using opioids, chances are when you wake up you are
>> reaching for your next dose to fight off the cusp of wd's. To fight the
>> lack of opioids, the brain will fire aminos/proteins to try to get you to
>> feel normal again....until your next dose. These changes gives the brain a
>> small but noticeable point of reference on how you are supposed to feel
>> without opioids, and that is what the slight uncomfortable feeling or
>> slight onset of wd's is, the brain trying to regulate. This is all due to
>> the 4 hr 1/2 life of all SAO's. Your brain still has a tiny pathway to
>> normalcy again and will eventually find its way back to normal in a week or
>> two for most people.
>>
>> Now take a drug like buprenorphine (Sub) or methadone, these drugs have
>> ridiculously long 1/2 lives, 34+ hours. So not only is the dose you just
>> took saturating the brain for the next 34 hours, but so is the doses you
>> took for the past week. Basically you are getting a "steady high" and the
>> brain has no way to create a point of reference on how you are supposed to
>> feel without opioids. (almost never slight wd's, mental stuff perhaps, but
>> actual wd's almost never) Not only does the brain lose its way back to
>> normalcy so to speak, but the search for normalcy, the brain firing of
>> signals to feel good again is almost non existent... no reason with drugs
>> that are by design made to keep you high "all the time".. So not only does
>> the brain have no point of reference as to what "normal" without opioids
>> feels like, but sparking up the endocrine gland/pituitary to produce the
>> signals/proteins needed to feel good again is fucking rusty with sub or
>> methadone...with SAO's it fires everyday!!!
>>
>> So when you do a treatment like UROD or Naltrexone for sub, the drug is
>> stripped/blocked from your brain and you are no longer dependent. But your
>> brain is still lost. You may have snuck past the initial wd's which are not
>> only mild at best due to the agonizingly long time it takes sub to leave
>> your body, but you will not only get hit with PAWS which are the brains
>> search for normalcy again, but you just passed the initial mapping phase
>> which IS the wd's that you just avoided with UROD or naltrexone to begin
>> with.
>>
>> For SAO's I dont see any issues except for the extreme danger and loss of
>> life that UROD procedures have. You are getting a shortcut!
>>
>> But with sub, you are making things much harder in the long run, because
>> sub wd's arent the rough part. The rough part is how fucking long it takes
>> your brain to find its way back to normal again and with UROD/Naltrexone
>> you just passed step one.
>>
>> This is why "switching" to SAO's is a unorthodox but productive way for
>> people to combat long term PAWS. Its a hard concept to wrap
>> around...getting re-addicted to the same shit I got on sub for to begin
>> with.. which is one of the cornerstones of this website. Subsux! Why start
>> a drug that is more trouble than its worth to begin with. Yes there are
>> some extreme cases where damage control supersedes the long term effects,
>> but that decision needs to be deeply considered.
>>
>> *By RATCH*
>> *
>> *
>>
>> Sergey
>>
>>
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