[Ibogaine] Kratom and Phenibut is saving me.....

Matt S. ibogamail at gmail.com
Sun Oct 13 09:45:25 CDT 2013


HI Sergey

Not to be rude but I read your response as saying that you actually 
don't have a plan for after you take the ibogaine.  I mean "together no 
matter what" is not a plan for recovery it is a plan for your 
relationship which is not the same thing I was asking about.  Also the 
"if one falls, the other will extend a helping hand" is a bit naive.  I 
say that without judgement.  From what I have seen time and again, 
people in a relationship who are both trying to get clean rarely make 
it.  Relapse is much more common than people like to admit and if one 
person in a couple relapses the likelihood of the other one relapsing is 
extremely high.  It is much more likely that the other person will 
relapse also than it is that the one who relapsed in the first place 
will be helped back to recovery by the one who did not.  These are 
statistical facts and you should plan with these facts in mind.  I 
recognize that you also seem to be saying you are aware of these 
statistics but that you are going to sort of make your own reality.  
Well I am of the opinion that reality will actually wind up remaking 
your opinions if you insist on this approach.  I believe that your 
chances of success will be much higher if you have realistic 
expectations about what you will need to do and you plan for that.  
Remember that addiction itself has very deep roots in denial of the 
truth.  In fact penetrating your own denial and self-deception is 
something that ibogaine is unparalleled at doing, one of the reasons 
that it can be both difficult to endure and highly effective as an 
addiction treatment.

I myself had to take ibogaine 5 times before I got to stay off of dope.  
Mainly because back then there was almost no emphasis placed on 
aftercare.  The paradigm was mostly that you take it and see if it 
works.  It worked every time to get me off of dope without too much 
withdrawal.  It did not work to keep me clean for the long term because 
I changed almost nothing afterwards.  And when the stresses of living 
through the wreckage of my junkie life (minus the dope) set in, I went 
back to the coping method I knew best, getting loaded.  This is not an 
uncommon experience.  Jim mentioned recently that he had to take it 4 
times, Jeff said the same thing.  There are others on this list with the 
same story. The ibogaine will get you off, but staying off depends on 
what you do next.  And if you have no plan for what happens next then I 
predict that just like all of us, you will return to drugs.  I am saying 
all of this because I want you to succeed.  You have an opportunity to 
learn from our mistakes in this regard and hopefully avoid the multiple 
relapses and multiple floods.

Although I will also say that every ibogaine flood has things to teach 
so from the long term perspective, multiple relapses and multiple floods 
ended up teaching me a lot about myself.  However it also meant 
something like 7 years in between the first flood and the one that 
actually allowed me to stay clean.  That's 7 years of dope and methadone 
that conceivably could have been skipped if I had a more realistic 
approach from the beginning.  I have also taken smaller floods since 
then so relapse and repeated detox treatments are not required in order 
to get the teachings that ibogaine can offer, you can go for those 
lessons while clean too.  In fact for me, ayahuasca is my teacher of 
choice anymore. Ibogaine (in high doses) is just too much for me 
anymore.  At this point in my life I am not into torturing myself so 
much. Ayahuasca is also extremely effective at penetrating our 
self-deceptions, although I still believe that ibogaine is more 
effective at it, but aya feels more friendly to me than ibogaine, more 
organic somehow.  If I am really attached to my self-deception then 
ayahuasca seems to be pretty gentle about it, ibogaine just pulls the 
wool from your eyes and exposes the truth which can be quite an 
uncomfortable shock sometimes.

I made a post about aftercare some time ago which Patrick stored on 
Mindvox.  Rather than reiterate it, here is the link: 
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean/Aftercare.htm

As for the kids and the material stuff, that can happen but that is not 
recovery, that is simply life happening to someone who isn't strung out.

Matt



On 10/11/2013 10:00 PM, Sergey Sibirian wrote:
> Matt,
>
> The last part is... I first wanted to write unfortunately, but then 
> paused: fortunately?...
> Not possible.
> Concerning this:
> "...contingency plans in the event one of you does not succeed at 
> staying off..."
>
> I sometimes understand some English words somehow freely.
> In case of "contingency" I think of "second plan"?
>
> I know enough about how difficult it could be to succeed when in a 
> couple where BOTH are users/addicts.
> But I don't care much about theory or statistics, at least in this case.
> I hope I can shape my destiny by my own "statistics".
>
> But most importantly, this girl is with me since the very beginning.
> We've been through "Eden and hell", good times and bad times.
> So no matter what, I'm with her to the end.
> I guess it sounds utopic, but it just is.
>
> I better look at it the following way: no matter what, I wish her the 
> best and only the best.
> So if one falls, the other will extend a helping hand.
>
> As for "after Ibogaine"...
> We're on a really good path, for the first time STEADY, CONTINUOUSLY. 
> It's been a year'n'half.
>
> I just want to find my way, you know. Do what I'm good at.
> Make some money in this materialistic world.
> Her, she wants kids, to see the world.
> The human stuff.
> :)
>
> We're doing our best. She's exercising every morning, lowering her 
> dose. I work, try to start something of my own, something with a sense.
>
> :)
>
> Sergey
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Matt S. <ibogamail at gmail.com 
> <mailto:ibogamail at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Here is a question for you Sergey, what do you plan to do after
>     you take ibogaine?  Because that plan is what will probably
>     determine whether or not you stay "sober".  You and your
>     girlfriend should also allow for contingency plans in the event
>     one of you does not succeed at staying off.
>
>     Matt
>
>
>     On 10/11/2013 6:53 PM, Sergey Sibirian wrote:
>>     Mroz,
>>
>>     Yes, here it is.
>>     It's been more than two weeks that you're off Sub, if I'm not
>>     mistaken (I was asking that same thing on another post, just
>>     overlook it... :))
>>
>>     Are you weening off really fast on Kratom, or are you going more
>>     slowly but steady?
>>     Do you have your Iboga yet, or a place ready?
>>
>>     I wish you success in whatever way you choose.
>>     I'm sure interested in how people go about the details of
>>     "sobering up", as I'm preparing myself
>>     capitally, thoroughly. Or at least I try to do my best. For next
>>     spring, me and my girl.
>>
>>     Sergey
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:13 PM, L.N. Mroz <leomroz24 at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:leomroz24 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Yes it acts very similar to hydrocodone or oxy, just not as
>>         strong and without the intense rush. I also am getting off
>>         subs for Iboga and didnt think kratom would be strong enough
>>         to keep me from taking my sub, but once you get down to a
>>         very low dose this stuff works very well. Surprised me honestly.
>>
>>         Today I got some norcos so didnt take the kratom but 2mrw
>>         will be back on it.
>>
>>         Thanks Sergey.
>>
>>         Eddie good to hear from you, im still in the process as well
>>         getting very close though. I hope you can get things figured
>>         out I wish you well buddy.
>>
>>
>>
>>         On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Eddie Caceres
>>         <ebrvwarr at aol.com <mailto:ebrvwarr at aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             What's up Mroz it's Eddie just wanted to wish you well
>>             and to hang in there buddy you've given me a lot of hope.
>>             I'm still in the same situation. Peace.
>>
>>             Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>             On Oct 8, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Sergey Sibirian
>>             <sibirianfox at gmail.com <mailto:sibirianfox at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>             Hi Mroz,
>>>
>>>             You said it's been day five OFF SUB.
>>>             Even though you're substituting with an opioid agonist,
>>>             albeit much, much of a different, BETTER type,- Kratom-,
>>>             I would still love to know how things are "feeling"?
>>>             Sub has a particularity, SLOW RECEPTOR DISSOCIATION,
>>>             which should translate in a very slow onset of
>>>             withdrawals, although ultimately not necessarily less
>>>             painful/suffering.
>>>
>>>             So how many days you're off Sub?
>>>             How long have you been taking it AND what was the
>>>             initial dose?
>>>             How does it feel?
>>>
>>>             Hope these questions are not too intrusive.
>>>
>>>             Tnx
>>>
>>>             Sergey
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM, L.N. Mroz
>>>             <leomroz24 at gmail.com <mailto:leomroz24 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 I recently stopped taking my 1-2mg of Suboxone and
>>>                 also started to cut my Benzo intake as well. I tried
>>>                 to cold turkey the sub and that did not work out
>>>                 well at all. Insomnia, restless legs and full
>>>                 body aches.
>>>                 I remember trying Kratom a few months ago, but since
>>>                 I was still on the low dose of sub, I really didn't
>>>                 feel it and thus give it a real chance.
>>>                 Its now been day 5 of no sub and the ONLY reason I
>>>                 have not gone back on my subs is because I have
>>>                 kratom....
>>>
>>>                 This blew me away at how powerful this stuff can be,
>>>                 my withdrawals were reduced down to ZERO, my energy
>>>                 shoots up and also I feel all around a sense of well
>>>                 being and social.
>>>                 I buy my kratom from
>>>                 www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com?ref=4813
>>>                 <http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com?ref=4813> and
>>>                 the Phenibut from www.liftmode.com
>>>                 <http://www.liftmode.com>
>>>                 Has anybody had the same experience? Also has anyone
>>>                 herd of Phenibut, it is supposed to act on the GABA
>>>                 B receptor and GABA A receptor just like Benzo's.
>>>
>>>
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