[Ibogaine] Krockodil

Jeff G jeffgallop at gmail.com
Sat Oct 12 12:37:22 CDT 2013

Thank you very very much for telling your and your families stories.
I think all of us who find there way to this list have stories to tell.
Most of them full of despair, and hope...and many times triumph.
I wish the best to you, your sons, and your husband. It is quite clear he
is a very lucky man.
On Oct 12, 2013 7:41 AM, "Gabrijela" <lilith.first at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> I'm from Croatia, very small european country you probably just heard of.
> I've been introduced to this list many years ago by our Slovenian friend I
> think we all know. The help we got from him was, and still is
> inappreciable, sometimes I wonder how did we deserve it. But that is
> another story.
> I have never been an addict. Never used never even tried heroin, or met or
> sub or any opiates.  That world was actually completly unknown to me until
> 8 years ago. Than I met a guy I fell in love with. Hardcore addict, one
> that's been addicted since he was 13 years old (he was 29 when we met, me
> being just a year younger). Heroin, cocaine, alchohol, pills...you name it,
> he had problems with everything I can think of. In and out of the jail his
> hole life, with unfunctional mother and father also with addiction history.
> All together a big mess I would say. For all of you wondering what I fell
> in love with, let's just say destiny and karma are something I NOW belive
> in. And I'm far from being naive little girl, even then. But that is again
> another story.
> He wanted to try another type of lifestyle with me, being clean was just
> the part of it. He was totally antisocial, did not trust anyone, literally
> no one, but now having a friend for the first time in his life. He saw
> there was a different set of people around him he didn't have the chance to
> meet before and I was a concrete bridge to that world. And I wanted him to
> feel things because one of the first things I learned was that heroin kills
> emotions. Not just as aa substance but because of a lifestyle that comes
> with it. He was also on methadon terapy for some time, and it kept im from
> jail - exactly as your friend you mentioned. But things are never easy,
> even when you think that the effort you put in should make them easy. We
> were going to his therapist, he changed my husbands therapy few times, from
> methadone to subutex, to suboxone than back to methadone and mst... that
> was an agony for both of us as you can imagine. Nothing worked, nothing
> kept him together and he was falling apart every two weeks, and he was
> desperatly trying again and again. aND in between he was doing cold turkey
> cleanups, just to be sure that he is alive  I think. Tortured himself I
> would say. That's how things went for three years. Than I met a someone who
> used ibogaine to get clean, it was a women in her late 40's and she was
> clean after more than 25 years of using heroin. First I thought it was a
> miracle drug, something God or something-someone send to us. And now I know
> that nature gives an antidot for every poison there is. You just have to
> find it. Same with Ibogaine. It is a wonder but doesen't makes wonders, we
> make them and ibg is just a first aid kit wonder. My husband was so lost by
> that time that he actually stopped hoping but didn't want to disappoint me
> with that fact, so he just did what I told him. The biggest mistake we
> made. No one can lead you, the right path is for every person to find on
> its own. That is how you get a hold on to your life. And I introduced
> ibogaine to him, hopes got up on both sides again and we contacted a person
> that helped us. First flood dose - he was clean for 6 months, second flood
> dose - he was clean for three months and even a third flood dose - just two
> months clean I belive. Fiasco? Not at least. The things he learned he can
> never forget, expirience he had was something no drug or love or life could
> give him. Ibogaine helped him become a better person somehow, made him
> conscious and selfaware, gave him the opportunity to see things in a
> brighter light and even to forgive him self for the things in the past.
> But my husband is one of those people that can't be clean, maybe. Or
> timing was just not yet right, maybe (again). He would start using as soon
> as the first problem in his life accured. My pregnancy was one of those
> pressures belive it or not. No matter how happy he was the worry was
> allways bigger. Ups and downs for years, and it finally broke him. He got
> drunk and filled up with pills, made a big stupidity and ended up in prison
> two, almost three years ago. I'm waiting for him to come home this year, he
> is going to try to be clean again, if not for himself than for two boys we
> have, he will never give up. I will help him, again, but will never do
> things instead of him anymore, that's a conclusion we both came to. And we
> will see where life is gonna take us.
> For Val and Sergey - behind a story is allways another story and behind
> that one - another... life is not simple and we should all stop trying
> simplifying it, answers are not in chemical structures and
> agonist-antagonist relationships. I'm a biologist by education, and I
> looooveeee logic. But some things remain unexplainable secrets. Like
> survival.
> 2013/10/12 Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
>> Hi Gabrijela,
>> Don't worry about you English, we do not take discredit for misspelling
>>  or making minor mistakes.
>> That was a very interesting letter you wrote.  I know people who are
>> happy on methadone.  In Michigan if your clean for years you can get 4 week
>> take homes.  My buddy has been on met for 28 years and I asked him why have
>> you been on so long and he said it keeps me out of jail.  That was the most
>> important and intelligent thing he ever said to me.  He used to get into
>> legal trouble time and time again and went to jail time and time again.  I
>> hate methadone but it is better than being in jail, this guy did not have a
>> choice either steal and go to jail or live on methadone for the rest of
>> your life.
>> May I ask what country your are form and if you want tell us a little bit
>> about yourself if you would like.  Like were you on heroin, met, sub or
>> whatever, how did you quit.  Again just share what you want to.  Your
>> letter shows thought and wisdom, glad to see you on the forum.
>> Best,
>>   -JIM
>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Gabrijela <lilith.first at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> Hi Sergey!
>>> Does she know about the list and Ibogaine?
>>> You two remind me a lot of me and my husband few years ago... Addict
>>> likes his shell, the ones they close themselfs inside, and no matter how he
>>> (my husband) seemed opened and enthusiastic he was avoiding putting an end
>>> to his addiction. That was not something he did on purpose or intentially,
>>> just handed me the stick of lidership, because it was easier for him to do
>>> so. In everything, including HIS search for ibogaine. It doesent work that
>>> way...  I mean, I dont know if there is a right way but I think she (your
>>> girlfriend) should involve herself 100% in getting clean - if that's what
>>> she wants.Sometimes we all don't know what we want untill we start our
>>> search. Doors open, otherones shut and that's how we learn about ourselfs.
>>> That's what's hard, for addicts more than the rest of people. Asking
>>> questions directly and getting answers that make us sad, disappointed and
>>> just sometimes we hear what we want to hear and what motivates us. That is
>>> starting the aftercare process on time, preparing for what's coming after
>>> getting clean to stay that way.
>>> If she's satisfied with being stabile on Sub, maybe you two should wait
>>> until she is fedup with it. Because there is a big chance she''ll be in not
>>> so long period of time.
>>> English is not my mothertongue as you all may have noticed:) but I hope
>>> you, especially Sergey, understand my point.
>>> Stay resiliant as allways!
>>> 2013/10/11 Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>>>> Hi Gabriella,
>>>> Thanks for your input, I really appreciate.
>>>> I have a question:
>>>> You wrote:
>>>> "I don't mean to be rude or anything, but Sergej, why is your girl
>>>> never writing on the list?"
>>>> What do you mean by that or what do you hint at?
>>>> :)
>>>> Sergey
>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Gabrijela <lilith.first at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>> Hi dear List:)
>>>>> I have to say that every word Sis wrote about suboxone and importance
>>>>> of aftercare is true.. I'm very sorry for that, but it is true:) Suboxone
>>>>> seemed like a best choice some time ago, but is puree shit if you ask me.
>>>>> It does get you high, but most important - it makes you belive you are on
>>>>> top of things, that you are in control. The biggest mistake to make.
>>>>> I don't mean to be rude or anything, but Sergej, why is your girl
>>>>> never writing on the list?
>>>>> I had the same expirience few years ago with my husband... He was sooo
>>>>> anxious to get of opiates but substitute therapy somehow made him lazy
>>>>> (Subutex at the time). Convinient lazy, if you know what I'm talking about.
>>>>> Sub makes one more active than any other "medicine" but it is a shortterm
>>>>> lie. It awekes you, but its not worth a lot. Feelings are not what anybody
>>>>> has on suboxone, it's just the awereness that feelings shuold be there.
>>>>> I wish as all best of luck
>>>>> 2013/10/8 Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Sergey.... its totally up to you on what you choose for yourself.
>>>>>> Smooth journey
>>>>>>    *From:* Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>>>>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 7, 2013 9:34 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Krockodil
>>>>>> Hey Sister,
>>>>>> I really hear you.
>>>>>> And I'm very cautious, not by nature, but because life made me that
>>>>>> way.
>>>>>> So right now, it's like choosing the least of three soul devouring
>>>>>> demons... Which one will do the least harm?
>>>>>> I'll re-copy what I wrote earlier:
>>>>>> "...And personal experiences are ALL that matter, because it's a new
>>>>>> drug and we have all different brains, bodies and chemo-dynamics.
>>>>>> As for being careful with Sub, here's my resume:
>>>>>> This is a very new substance made NOT by the people who care for our
>>>>>> well-being, but by pharma-moguls who's god is MONEY, more money and money
>>>>>> at any cost.
>>>>>> But between three monsters: short-acting opiates (heroin, oxy,
>>>>>> morphine, fentanyl...), METHADONE and SUBAXONE, I have to choose the least
>>>>>> of three evils.
>>>>>> For now, *AT LEAST JUST FOR THE MOMENT*, based on my PERSONAL
>>>>>> EXPERIENCE, Subaxon wins. By far.
>>>>>> I've listed all my reasons, and the health of my baby girl is
>>>>>> crucial, as well as our seemingly best shot for a drug free life.
>>>>>> So for me, Sub works BETTER THEN THE ALTERNATIVE, that's all.
>>>>>> Do I believe there's no dangers lurking in the dark waters of
>>>>>> new-pharma obcessed with profits?
>>>>>> Do I believe a substanvce with a chemical structure named
>>>>>> (2*S*)-2-[(5*R*,6*R*,7*R*,14*S*
>>>>>> )-9α-Cyclopropylmethyl-4,5-epoxy-6,14-ethano-3-hydroxy-6-methoxymorphinan-7-yl]-3,3-dimethylbutan-2-ol
>>>>>> holds no dark surprises?
>>>>>> NO..."
>>>>>> And will I switch to a short acting opioid like oxy or morphine AT
>>>>>> LEAST 3 months before going Iboga-flood?
>>>>>> Of course I will.
>>>>>> Have a good night Sister.
>>>>>> And thanks for trying to show me the dark side of subaxone.
>>>>>> I realize I might be on a pink cloud and I SURE AS HELL feel I'm
>>>>>> missing a lot of info.
>>>>>> It's just, like I stress, very simple: the lesser of the evils, for
>>>>>> the moment...
>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 12:05 PM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>> Lmao.  What you mean weird.  Everyone of them are approved
>>>>>> abbreviation by medical standards, (I think).    Ty Jeff for vote of
>>>>>> confidence that my hearts in the right place.
>>>>>> I know when writing I need not to be so blunt.  Not being able to
>>>>>> read my body language, read my eyes, I come across as judgmental.  I have
>>>>>> not a leg to stand on to judge anyone.  The things I did in the 35 yrs
>>>>>> addicted to avoid getting dope sick, getting cash to buy, trusting anyone
>>>>>> who claimed an easier way sickens me today.  It's taken a lot to learn to
>>>>>> forgive myself.  Believe it or not I'm working on it.  I delete more then
>>>>>> gets posted due to how it comes across.  I'm still work in progress.
>>>>>> Sergy, Ty for being open enough to accept my apology.  I feel
>>>>>> strongly against suboxone, hate the damage I see it causing my fellow
>>>>>> addicts.  Pls don't take my word for it but read around drug forums not
>>>>>> attached to pharm companies, not sponser by those who pay thier bills
>>>>>> depending on the drug.  Opiate detox and recovery is one, subsux another.
>>>>>>  You can also visit suboxone zone....but those who spoke the truth about
>>>>>> the poison are quickly banned...leaving those who are on it to post.
>>>>>> Research who is posting...dr J who makes his living scripting sub...can you
>>>>>> trust what he claims when his house note depends on it?  Just try to be
>>>>>> open to what those who are trying to live w/o dosing daily.
>>>>>> I wish you gf the best and sucess.
>>>>>> Sister
>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Jeff G <jeffgallop at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Damn, I forgot to put my little smiley face in after my "weird
>>>>>> medical abbreviation" comment....
>>>>>> I was just fooling around a little about that .
>>>>>> JeffG
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