[Ibogaine] Krockodil

Gabrijela lilith.first at gmail.com
Sat Oct 12 08:56:58 CDT 2013

Hi Jim,

I'm from Croatia, very small european country you probably just heard of.
I've been introduced to this list many years ago by our Slovenian friend I
think we all know. The help we got from him was, and still is
inappreciable, sometimes I wonder how did we deserve it. But that is
another story.
I have never been an addict. Never used never even tried heroin, or met or
sub or any opiates.  That world was actually completly unknown to me until
8 years ago. Than I met a guy I fell in love with. Hardcore addict, one
that's been addicted since he was 13 years old (he was 29 when we met, me
being just a year younger). Heroin, cocaine, alchohol, pills...you name it,
he had problems with everything I can think of. In and out of the jail his
hole life, with unfunctional mother and father also with addiction history.
All together a big mess I would say. For all of you wondering what I fell
in love with, let's just say destiny and karma are something I NOW belive
in. And I'm far from being naive little girl, even then. But that is again
another story.
He wanted to try another type of lifestyle with me, being clean was just
the part of it. He was totally antisocial, did not trust anyone, literally
no one, but now having a friend for the first time in his life. He saw
there was a different set of people around him he didn't have the chance to
meet before and I was a concrete bridge to that world. And I wanted him to
feel things because one of the first things I learned was that heroin kills
emotions. Not just as aa substance but because of a lifestyle that comes
with it. He was also on methadon terapy for some time, and it kept im from
jail - exactly as your friend you mentioned. But things are never easy,
even when you think that the effort you put in should make them easy. We
were going to his therapist, he changed my husbands therapy few times, from
methadone to subutex, to suboxone than back to methadone and mst... that
was an agony for both of us as you can imagine. Nothing worked, nothing
kept him together and he was falling apart every two weeks, and he was
desperatly trying again and again. aND in between he was doing cold turkey
cleanups, just to be sure that he is alive  I think. Tortured himself I
would say. That's how things went for three years. Than I met a someone who
used ibogaine to get clean, it was a women in her late 40's and she was
clean after more than 25 years of using heroin. First I thought it was a
miracle drug, something God or something-someone send to us. And now I know
that nature gives an antidot for every poison there is. You just have to
find it. Same with Ibogaine. It is a wonder but doesen't makes wonders, we
make them and ibg is just a first aid kit wonder. My husband was so lost by
that time that he actually stopped hoping but didn't want to disappoint me
with that fact, so he just did what I told him. The biggest mistake we
made. No one can lead you, the right path is for every person to find on
its own. That is how you get a hold on to your life. And I introduced
ibogaine to him, hopes got up on both sides again and we contacted a person
that helped us. First flood dose - he was clean for 6 months, second flood
dose - he was clean for three months and even a third flood dose - just two
months clean I belive. Fiasco? Not at least. The things he learned he can
never forget, expirience he had was something no drug or love or life could
give him. Ibogaine helped him become a better person somehow, made him
conscious and selfaware, gave him the opportunity to see things in a
brighter light and even to forgive him self for the things in the past.
But my husband is one of those people that can't be clean, maybe. Or timing
was just not yet right, maybe (again). He would start using as soon as the
first problem in his life accured. My pregnancy was one of those pressures
belive it or not. No matter how happy he was the worry was allways bigger.
Ups and downs for years, and it finally broke him. He got drunk and filled
up with pills, made a big stupidity and ended up in prison two, almost
three years ago. I'm waiting for him to come home this year, he is going to
try to be clean again, if not for himself than for two boys we have, he
will never give up. I will help him, again, but will never do things
instead of him anymore, that's a conclusion we both came to. And we will
see where life is gonna take us.
For Val and Sergey - behind a story is allways another story and behind
that one - another... life is not simple and we should all stop trying
simplifying it, answers are not in chemical structures and
agonist-antagonist relationships. I'm a biologist by education, and I
looooveeee logic. But some things remain unexplainable secrets. Like

2013/10/12 Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>

> Hi Gabrijela,
> Don't worry about you English, we do not take discredit for misspelling
>  or making minor mistakes.
> That was a very interesting letter you wrote.  I know people who are happy
> on methadone.  In Michigan if your clean for years you can get 4 week take
> homes.  My buddy has been on met for 28 years and I asked him why have you
> been on so long and he said it keeps me out of jail.  That was the most
> important and intelligent thing he ever said to me.  He used to get into
> legal trouble time and time again and went to jail time and time again.  I
> hate methadone but it is better than being in jail, this guy did not have a
> choice either steal and go to jail or live on methadone for the rest of
> your life.
> May I ask what country your are form and if you want tell us a little bit
> about yourself if you would like.  Like were you on heroin, met, sub or
> whatever, how did you quit.  Again just share what you want to.  Your
> letter shows thought and wisdom, glad to see you on the forum.
> Best,
>   -JIM
> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Gabrijela <lilith.first at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Sergey!
>> Does she know about the list and Ibogaine?
>> You two remind me a lot of me and my husband few years ago... Addict
>> likes his shell, the ones they close themselfs inside, and no matter how he
>> (my husband) seemed opened and enthusiastic he was avoiding putting an end
>> to his addiction. That was not something he did on purpose or intentially,
>> just handed me the stick of lidership, because it was easier for him to do
>> so. In everything, including HIS search for ibogaine. It doesent work that
>> way...  I mean, I dont know if there is a right way but I think she (your
>> girlfriend) should involve herself 100% in getting clean - if that's what
>> she wants.Sometimes we all don't know what we want untill we start our
>> search. Doors open, otherones shut and that's how we learn about ourselfs.
>> That's what's hard, for addicts more than the rest of people. Asking
>> questions directly and getting answers that make us sad, disappointed and
>> just sometimes we hear what we want to hear and what motivates us. That is
>> starting the aftercare process on time, preparing for what's coming after
>> getting clean to stay that way.
>> If she's satisfied with being stabile on Sub, maybe you two should wait
>> until she is fedup with it. Because there is a big chance she''ll be in not
>> so long period of time.
>> English is not my mothertongue as you all may have noticed:) but I hope
>> you, especially Sergey, understand my point.
>> Stay resiliant as allways!
>> 2013/10/11 Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>>> Hi Gabriella,
>>> Thanks for your input, I really appreciate.
>>> I have a question:
>>> You wrote:
>>> "I don't mean to be rude or anything, but Sergej, why is your girl never
>>> writing on the list?"
>>> What do you mean by that or what do you hint at?
>>> :)
>>> Sergey
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Gabrijela <lilith.first at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> Hi dear List:)
>>>> I have to say that every word Sis wrote about suboxone and importance
>>>> of aftercare is true.. I'm very sorry for that, but it is true:) Suboxone
>>>> seemed like a best choice some time ago, but is puree shit if you ask me.
>>>> It does get you high, but most important - it makes you belive you are on
>>>> top of things, that you are in control. The biggest mistake to make.
>>>> I don't mean to be rude or anything, but Sergej, why is your girl never
>>>> writing on the list?
>>>> I had the same expirience few years ago with my husband... He was sooo
>>>> anxious to get of opiates but substitute therapy somehow made him lazy
>>>> (Subutex at the time). Convinient lazy, if you know what I'm talking about.
>>>> Sub makes one more active than any other "medicine" but it is a shortterm
>>>> lie. It awekes you, but its not worth a lot. Feelings are not what anybody
>>>> has on suboxone, it's just the awereness that feelings shuold be there.
>>>> I wish as all best of luck
>>>> 2013/10/8 Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Sergey.... its totally up to you on what you choose for yourself.
>>>>> Smooth journey
>>>>>    *From:* Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>>>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 7, 2013 9:34 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Krockodil
>>>>> Hey Sister,
>>>>> I really hear you.
>>>>> And I'm very cautious, not by nature, but because life made me that
>>>>> way.
>>>>> So right now, it's like choosing the least of three soul devouring
>>>>> demons... Which one will do the least harm?
>>>>> I'll re-copy what I wrote earlier:
>>>>> "...And personal experiences are ALL that matter, because it's a new
>>>>> drug and we have all different brains, bodies and chemo-dynamics.
>>>>> As for being careful with Sub, here's my resume:
>>>>> This is a very new substance made NOT by the people who care for our
>>>>> well-being, but by pharma-moguls who's god is MONEY, more money and money
>>>>> at any cost.
>>>>> But between three monsters: short-acting opiates (heroin, oxy,
>>>>> morphine, fentanyl...), METHADONE and SUBAXONE, I have to choose the least
>>>>> of three evils.
>>>>> For now, *AT LEAST JUST FOR THE MOMENT*, based on my PERSONAL
>>>>> EXPERIENCE, Subaxon wins. By far.
>>>>> I've listed all my reasons, and the health of my baby girl is crucial,
>>>>> as well as our seemingly best shot for a drug free life.
>>>>> So for me, Sub works BETTER THEN THE ALTERNATIVE, that's all.
>>>>> Do I believe there's no dangers lurking in the dark waters of
>>>>> new-pharma obcessed with profits?
>>>>> Do I believe a substanvce with a chemical structure named
>>>>> (2*S*)-2-[(5*R*,6*R*,7*R*,14*S*
>>>>> )-9α-Cyclopropylmethyl-4,5-epoxy-6,14-ethano-3-hydroxy-6-methoxymorphinan-7-yl]-3,3-dimethylbutan-2-ol
>>>>> holds no dark surprises?
>>>>> NO..."
>>>>> And will I switch to a short acting opioid like oxy or morphine AT
>>>>> LEAST 3 months before going Iboga-flood?
>>>>> Of course I will.
>>>>> Have a good night Sister.
>>>>> And thanks for trying to show me the dark side of subaxone.
>>>>> I realize I might be on a pink cloud and I SURE AS HELL feel I'm
>>>>> missing a lot of info.
>>>>> It's just, like I stress, very simple: the lesser of the evils, for
>>>>> the moment...
>>>>> Sergey
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 12:05 PM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Lmao.  What you mean weird.  Everyone of them are approved
>>>>> abbreviation by medical standards, (I think).    Ty Jeff for vote of
>>>>> confidence that my hearts in the right place.
>>>>> I know when writing I need not to be so blunt.  Not being able to read
>>>>> my body language, read my eyes, I come across as judgmental.  I have not a
>>>>> leg to stand on to judge anyone.  The things I did in the 35 yrs addicted
>>>>> to avoid getting dope sick, getting cash to buy, trusting anyone who
>>>>> claimed an easier way sickens me today.  It's taken a lot to learn to
>>>>> forgive myself.  Believe it or not I'm working on it.  I delete more then
>>>>> gets posted due to how it comes across.  I'm still work in progress.
>>>>> Sergy, Ty for being open enough to accept my apology.  I feel strongly
>>>>> against suboxone, hate the damage I see it causing my fellow addicts.  Pls
>>>>> don't take my word for it but read around drug forums not attached to pharm
>>>>> companies, not sponser by those who pay thier bills depending on the drug.
>>>>>  Opiate detox and recovery is one, subsux another.  You can also visit
>>>>> suboxone zone....but those who spoke the truth about the poison are quickly
>>>>> banned...leaving those who are on it to post.   Research who is
>>>>> posting...dr J who makes his living scripting sub...can you trust what he
>>>>> claims when his house note depends on it?  Just try to be open to what
>>>>> those who are trying to live w/o dosing daily.
>>>>> I wish you gf the best and sucess.
>>>>> Sister
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Jeff G <jeffgallop at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Damn, I forgot to put my little smiley face in after my "weird medical
>>>>> abbreviation" comment....
>>>>> I was just fooling around a little about that .
>>>>> JeffG
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