[Ibogaine] Another one bites the dust

fallen eden falleneden1 at gmail.com
Wed Mar 27 16:10:05 EDT 2013


Maybe, to sum up part of this problem.. It appears that all of us who get
involved with ibogaine have something incredibly wrong with us somehow or
another which is what draws us to the work. Abused, highly disturbed,
addicts, ill, just mentally or physically [Enter Word Here Patrick Style]
whatever.

We're bound to end up doing these dumb/harmful/whatever things as one
ibo-naive (meaning never taken it) friend told me the other day. Ibogaine
helps normalize us otherwise completely screwy people it appears.. So all
put together, we literally and figuratively fall over and get up repeatedly
in whatever way. (referring to say moods, opinions, drugs, random life
circumstance, all our behaviors.. I'd call myself a perfect example at
least.) And I think we're all completely scared out of our minds at times
to talk about any of it. We'll probably always act quite dysfunctional at
random times, and quite lucid and strong at others- it seems like this is a
part of life for many of us. Just don't beat yourself up sister; you did
all that you could have done.
On Mar 27, 2013 12:52 PM, "fallen eden" <falleneden1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> And well by the way- a guy with HIV my age was considering trying to work
> with me (EKG within last 6 mos, I would consider "still current" possibly-
> opinions on that?) But he decided pretty much to go with the route we're
> all talking about that started this thread. And now at the moment I feel
> quite underqualified to handle his case anyways- Just psychospiritual, but
> with severe depression/anxiety and suicidality involved. He seemed like he
> would need a whole lot of comprehensive work.. But he's most likely buying
> it with his mom watching him.
>
> Then again, I remember years ago getting a call on my old house phone at
> random- it was the vendor you're talking about wanting to actually only
> sell if the patient was referred to me.. and not sell to someone addicted
> to ephedrine (yes guys the vitamin from GNC, a stimulant tox). And I got
> called to handle it, we set up for me to receive everything and the
> handover was made, and it was a great week working with him back then. I've
> wondered what exactly changed for the vendor.. but this did also happen
> where I was asked to handle a situation, and they didn't want to endanger
> the patient. It a dilemma here for sure as to who is to blame.
> On Mar 27, 2013 12:24 PM, "fallen eden" <falleneden1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah Matt.. I mean the way I was treated first go, the group in general
>> would act angred about Dr. Mash's statements calling underground providers
>> backalley abortionists.. But I knew, eh, Dr. Mash was right.. It is like
>> backalley abortion essentially with the risk, but never outwardly agreed
>> with her so as to not offend the group. It's still incredibly risky with a
>> medical presense there, or I wouldn't have gone on tirades yelling at
>> people in Mexico.. (Well, not just me; I know that.)
>>
>> I hope I haven't harmed anyone in the past and thank god if I have not.
>> As far as I know, I haven't.. And good God, may I be cursed if I have.. At
>> least we try despite our arguments over all these things. All we can do is
>> try to "complete the masterpiece" like Howard said to me so kindly with
>> death and pain in his eyes- work for some better goal than what has come
>> before us.
>> On Mar 27, 2013 6:01 AM, "Matt S." <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Well it sounds like the mother provided plenty of evidence of her own
>>> felonious behavior as well.  And I've read way too many accounts of drug
>>> warriors having no qualms about adding insult to injury to think that they
>>> won't go after her.  Not sure what they can really do to a vendor outside
>>> the US.  Especially if they are selling from a country where it is legal.
>>> Theoretically speaking, it's not the vendor's responsibility to know the
>>> laws all over the world.  On the other hand if there is a recording of them
>>> acknowledging that they are aware of the illegality in the US and they
>>> still sent it, that could provide an opening for something.  But still, for
>>> the US to go after them they would require assistance from the country
>>> where the vendor resides.  Even among allies extradition is not uber-common
>>> for lessor crimes.  I would imagine that customs intercepts many packages
>>> with more than a single dose of an illegal drug without ever bothering to
>>> go after the vendor.  Controlled pharmas from China and India are common in
>>> the mail and it doesn't seem to be slowing any from what I read.  The big
>>> extenuating circumstance here is the damage done to this woman but since
>>> she didn't actually die physically its still not a murder.
>>>
>>> All around shitty situation.  Reminds me of the kid with the pacemaker
>>> incident also.  If we could end this fucking fiasco war on drugs then maybe
>>> we could get actual scientific info on the safest way to use the medicine
>>> and people could get treated in the god damned hospital.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/27/2013 3:12 AM, sister wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually she didn't have a provider.  Her 72 yr old LPN mother sat for
>>> her.  I fine fault in the set up or sure.  I really find fault in the
>>> vender who sent it to them.  Not asking for medical clearance, actually
>>> told her no need.  Told them (btw I did hear this on the recording)....
>>> (totally safe going from methadone to iboga.  Just be sure your in
>>> beginning stages of wd"  This is the person mailing the iboga to their
>>> house.  I think if one is going to sell this plant to the public at least
>>> tell them theres risk, share safty measures, not that 72 yo women is
>>> adequate who knows nothing but what she shared.  This person called them!
>>>  After order placed the vender called them.  Total disinformation given.  I
>>> kinda do agree with lees mothers action of getting DEA/police reports
>>> going.  You would think if selling a substance that's a federal offense,
>>> class 1substance and mailing it to a country it's not legal they would take
>>> more precautions. On the recording I heard er tell this 72 yr old mother,
>>> most do it alone or just a buddy overnight.  Being she was a LPN her
>>> daughters in good hands.  I heard this myself.  Fuking sad.  It's this
>>> behavior that just feeds into why it will never be legal here.
>>>
>>> Sister
>>>
>>> On Mar 27, 2013, at 4:07 AM, Ian Howard <ianroots28 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Sorry to hear this Sister. There's a fine line between poison and
>>> medicine. I understand desperation, but it sounds like the client and
>>> provider were both horribly irresponsible here. why in the world would she
>>> say no EKG necessary? Crazy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:28 AM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just have to vent and really who gives a fuck but maybe by writing
>>>> this it may save another life.
>>>> Had a old friend from my meth program days show up in my life.
>>>>  Couldn't believe I was nearly 4 yrs clean.  Of course I shared how I got
>>>> clean.  Well of course she wanted to flood also.  The problem was she was
>>>> on methadone.  I shared that it's safer to switch over to sao's.  Told her
>>>> why, dangers involved etc.  Even share with her the opportunity I had
>>>> watching three tx on a cardiac monitor and what takes place during flood
>>>> and the following 72 hrs.  Explained qt interval.. The whole chit and
>>>> combang.
>>>>
>>>> Her mom is about done with her behavior and she either cleans up or get
>>>> out.  I even went to lunch with mom explaining need to flip to sao's and
>>>> why.  She was okay with it.  Well this chic and her addict behavior was " I
>>>> want what I want and want it now!". Of course she can't pay for it, her mom
>>>> was willing to foot the bill.  The chic and I went back and forth, I just
>>>> refused to treat if not willing to switch and give the methadone time to
>>>> get out of system.  Mom, poor, on SS had little.  So we made arrangments
>>>> for her to leave country to clinic that can sit on her allowing meth to
>>>> leave her system.  But noooooooo.  So she got it thru well known vender who
>>>> told her it's safe.
>>>>
>>>> So safe...?  I just left the hospital with her brain dead due to
>>>> hypoxia.  I did get to speak to icu doc with her mom.  He stated the
>>>> hypoxia was secondary to going so long with with too low Hr and couldn't
>>>> profuse body/mind, then heart stopped completely.  Mom was sitter, which is
>>>> so sad.  She is carrying such guilt.  She cried so painfully.  Made
>>>> statements like " I am a LPN, the women on phone said many she sells too
>>>> don't have it that good.". Said no EKG needed, no need to switch to Sao,
>>>> just makes it easier on the provider/clinics.  "They don't want to have to
>>>> give doses needed"
>>>>
>>>> Now.. Let me clarify, I didn't hear theses statements said to her or
>>>> her mom....second hand info.
>>>>
>>>> I did spend time with both explaining, shared what I witness on the
>>>> three I wittiness cardiac monitor.  So they both did know.  I just hurt.
>>>>  Just in last 12 mo I know of 7 deaths.  I wonder how accurate that study
>>>> on the deaths can be when the deaths are kept hidden.  I know for fact that
>>>> many who have deaths hide it.  Instead of sharing what happen so we all can
>>>> learn, it's hidden.  I do understand when underground, but why hide the
>>>> deaths if in legal country?????   I just don't get it.  We could all learn
>>>> from each others mistakes.
>>>>
>>>> Now this chic is basically dead.  So unessassary.  My heart is broken
>>>> for her mom.  Not sure she will pull thru this.  Even worse she contacted
>>>> police/DEA to report the vender.  Has written instruction, name of person
>>>> who talk to her on phone, even taped it not trusting her memory.  Not sure
>>>> how I feel about this.....I understand her anger at vender.  But really???
>>>>  I made it so clear of the risk, I refused to work with her.  How much
>>>> clearer can that be?   But I still understand her anger, really not anger
>>>> but pure saddness, guilt and just at a loss right now.  She will loose
>>>> everything caring for her brain dead child.  MD was preparing her for
>>>> what's in future.  Moving off unit as soon as ibo clears her system then to
>>>> nursing home.  They are drawing bld q4 hrs and documenting for DEA.  That's
>>>> scary but her mom is adamant about pressing charges, reporting vender for
>>>> disinformation, sending it thru ail in USA, etc. don't get that at all
>>>> myself.   I did bring it up that she ca
>>>>  n't claim ignorance no matter what was told to her by vender.  I made
>>>> it too clear.  But I do understand her fears of loosing her home and need
>>>> for some$$$ assistance right now.  I don't see how a vender outside this
>>>> country can be held accountable even if giving poor instructions/advice.  I
>>>> don't think the women on phone is a medical professional which is on her
>>>> side.  If she was a nurse here... What DEA didn't take from her, board of
>>>> nursing surely would, then civil case..,oh god fucking scary.
>>>> MD was a nice guy.  I actually took advantage and learned all I could
>>>> from him.  He was so willing, showed me labs, etc.  I am curious how long
>>>> bld titers show the ibo.  The doctor was very interested in ibo.  He is
>>>> gonna let me have copy of labs (moms permission too). Also doing some lft
>>>> follow ups for me.
>>>>
>>>> So...pls guys.  Why risk it?  I know many were treated straight from
>>>> methadone/sub/fentyl and lived to tell about it.  But that's what so cool
>>>> about research.  We learn safer ways, better ways. We have the technology,
>>>> why ignore it?  One uness death is too many in my eyes.  I understand chit
>>>> happens, hidden cardiac problems, lying clients, throwing emboli...for some
>>>> it's just gonna happen.  But no reason to be negligent.  We all know there
>>>> are risk with this mode of tx.  Myself, well worth the risk I took with my
>>>> life.  But txing straight from meth/sub/fentyl is just negligence.
>>>>  Treating without looking at EKG, negligence.  Not understanding the meds
>>>> your mixing with ibo, negligence.  I just treated a guy here in CR who
>>>> shared a few responses from "providers".  I have to say I was shocked,
>>>> actually appalled at what I read. My rule of thumb.. Nothing but
>>>> opiates/benzo should be in ones system.  We just don't know enough about
>>>> this wonderful plant to mix pharmicutals with it.
>>>>   Just safer not too.  Wise to wait72 hrs.  I am about to find out how
>>>> much Ibogain registered after 72 hrs...that's cool I think.
>>>>
>>>> So my heart is so sad...I was so excited to be able to have her in my
>>>> life again....well sorta.  While on dope I really didn't care for her.  But
>>>> if she had opportunity to get clean, I bet we could have hung out together
>>>> again.  Such a needless waste.
>>>>
>>>> I am gonna find that list of meds that should NOT be used when ibo is
>>>> in system.   Even it's not conclusive, many condraindicated.  Clonidine a
>>>> biggy.....I know this by experience ashamed to say.  Neurotin is
>>>> another...brand name for that is gabarpentin (sp).  antibiotics, most of
>>>> them.  Beta blockers, htn meds, steroids.  List goes on and on.
>>>>
>>>> Well, can't say this help much.  I am still tearful, sad and I mystery
>>>> admit angry at vender myself.  Not going to call them either to give heads
>>>> up.  Well, maybe after I get some sleep I might feel differently.  This is
>>>> not the first time they sold iboga that ended in death.  If my memory is
>>>> correct that boys mom was a nurse also and was told how safe without
>>>> looking at EKG.  That kid was given disinformation by many.  Had a pace
>>>> maker...I remember seeing that spike and was who AA.  Called them and said
>>>> you failed to mention he has a pacemaker placed.  But when your dead set
>>>> you will keep asking till you hear what you want to hear.  Way too many
>>>> willing to tell you what you want to hear, knowledgable or not,   That one
>>>> was really the kid... Kept going from one site to the next till he found
>>>> someone to say having a paceer will not affect the flood.  Hell, 21 yrs
>>>> old, what can go wrong, go for it.  they did and I am sure that boys moms
>>>> life still sucks today.
>>>>
>>>> I hate addiction, I hate that I am an addict.  I hate seeing the pain
>>>> it causes, I hate how fucking nuts addicts are.  I hate excuses,  I hate
>>>> feeling so sad.  I rather deal with physical pain any day then this
>>>> emotional pain.  My s pain was a great way to get dope but for real....my
>>>> dope use had nothing to do with MS.  It was so I didn't have to feel like I
>>>> feel right now.  Ms was just easier to admit too.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for listening.
>>>> Sister
>>>>
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