[Ibogaine] sergey response

Jim Hadey3 jimhadey3 at gmail.com
Thu Dec 19 15:09:07 CST 2013


Hi Danielle,

>>> Well they have a "medication" for everything else out there...so you're
telling me there's no way around withdrawal  <<<

Not that I know of, the best I can think of is ibogaine, a good sitter and
maybe warm showers or baths.  It is like turning a very bad flu into a
medium cold, and most can handle a cold.  They got stuff on the market like
Withdrawal Ease and vitamins but they never seemed to help me.  Withdrawal
is a terrible and painful experience, I don't know any other way.  Oh, I
have got low on SAOs and used some catapress (blood pressure pills) and
moved out of state, to Houston yet, not far from Sugarland.  It's a matter
of time and mild exercise even walking will help some.  There is no easy
way and you got to be on guard against relapsing for the rest of your life.
 Yeah, addiction is a bummer.

Best,

  - JIM



On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 3:52 PM, danielle <danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> Well they have a "medication" for everything else out there...so you're
> telling me there's no way around withdrawal; only through it and there's no
> "fast forward" button.  Ugh; saying "no" to the fast and easy route is
> always a tough pill to swallow.
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:54 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] sergey response
>
> Hi Danielle,
>
> You ask >>>   I asked before about Narcan and I KNOW IT WILL SEND SOMEONE
> INTO INSTANT WITHDRAW but if they're about to undergo a treatment that
> won't be effective with long lasting opiates bound to the receptors then
> isn't that the point? <<<
>
> No, No, No you 'can' take Narcan for it is short acting which is often
> used for ODs but you will be sorry, worse would be Naltrexone for it will
> be severe and last 3 to 5 days - Severe.  I understand your theory but it
> does not work in the real world for after every molecule of opiates are off
> the receptors your still in w/d until your body and brain learn to make
> more brain chemicals.
>
> ROD, Rapid Opium Detox is not all it is cracked up to be, Google it and
> you will see, you will also note $15,000.
>
> I read when they wheeled a guy out who was sick as hell.  They make ROD
> look and sound good, kinda reminds me of Sub.  The point is to quit opiates
> with a little pain as possible.
>
> Best,
>
>   - JIM
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:34 AM, danielle <danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
> AND...with the medical knowledge we have if someone has tapered down as
> far as they can possibly go; is there nothing in the great Medicine Cabinet
> that will cleanse/knock off/purify the receptors before an Ibogaine
> treatment?  I asked before about Narcan and I KNOW IT WILL SEND SOMEONE
> INTO INSTANT WITHDRAW but if they're about to undergo a treatment that
> won't be effective with long lasting opiates bound to the receptors then
> isn't that the point?
> I know we have "Rapid Detox" treatments available which means that it IS
> POSSIBLE to fast forward the process.  After the "receptors are cleansed"
> wouldn't Ibogaine be a effective addiction interrupter for that person?
>  I'm not saying I named the right drug; but "theoretically" I should be
> right about this...right?
> Also; in a perfect world, what's the best transition schedule for someone
> on Methadone/Suboxone (I think I just asked the same question as Val)... : )
>
> Thank you Sister,
>
> Danielle
>
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com>
>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:11 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] sergey response
>
> Help me....
> It is getting confusing.  I was told 3 months off Bufenorphine,
> 2-3 weeks off Methadone.
> I am just worried for people who have to go to a SAO.
> 3 months, well..... a lot can happen in 3 months, and although I am glad I
> waited because of my history and Sub use, is it really necessary for
> someone to be off Methadone for 3 months before their Ibogaine treatment?
> I feel like people are lumping Sub and Methadone in the same category,
> when they are not the same,
> Lotsof Love, Val
> On Dec 17, 2013 10:52 PM, "Sister" <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I kicked sub.  Was never intense for me compared to other dope.  Just that
> it never ended.  Never mire then 3 out of ten.  Now same shit with lethargy
> etc.  it was just at 6 no I felt sane as month one.  Still no sleep and
> sweating.  Kicking h or oxy was about over after a month
>
> Smooth journey,
> Sister
>
> On Dec 17, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Danielle,
> I think I was on day 10 of my Methadone withdrawal before I went
> completely insane and acted accordingly to get myself institutionalized.
> I think it should be 100% illegal to MAKE someone kick Methadone or
> Bufenorophine cold turkey.  I consider that TORTURE!
> In my experience I could go like 3-4 days without Bufenorphine and
> wouldn't even start to detox.
> My methadone detox was just getting started on day 5, by day 10 I could no
> longer take it.
> But my "plan" never involved a cold turkey.
> Once I truly wanted to be free,  I started planning for my ibogaine
> treatment.  By time the day of my treatment came,  I never wanted to go out
> with a bang, I was done and sooooo happy that there was a way out of this
> rat race where I did not have to feel that horrible pain that you describe
> so well.
> That is quite amazing that you actually went through a methadone detox
> like that! I have actually NEVER heard of someone being able to kick
> Methadone cold turkey unless they were in jail.
> My fear with Methadone was always WTF am I going to do if there is an
> earthquake or something and they close the clinic.
> Oh that just reminded me of part of my ibogaine experience, I was like a
> fading light in a long line of other fading lights , (I think I was suppose
> to be in line at the clinic)  and I realized that I did not need a drug for
> my light to be bright.
> Huh...weird.
> I feel like sometimes I will just remember something about my ibogaine
> experience out of no where.
> Is that "normal?"
> Well anyway,  any type of opiot detox is fuckin hard,  I just personally
> feel that Methadone and Bufenorphine are even worst!
> Lotsof Love, Val
> On Dec 17, 2013 6:37 PM, "danielle" <danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> It would be fair to say about 40 mgs were in my system.  The absolute
> debilitating part was about a month.  I was about 3 months into it when I
> got frustrated and turned to hydro's.  It's like my normal equilibrium
> wouldn't quick in.  I have responsibilities.  I NEED to function on some
> level and 3 months is A LONG TIME so I broke...BUT I gotta give props to my
> husband for his part in helping me out of that quicksand.  I was thinking
> about it a lot today.  The experience was very traumatic and I have a
> "trauma box" somewhere in my brain I prefer to shove things into when I
> don't know how to process it.  I just remember laying in bed completely
> depleted and feeling like the WORLDS BIGGEST SPOILED BRAT LOSER (as there
> are people with much harder circumstances than me that haven't caved to
> this crap), and my Husband would come in the room and tell me ; "I was
> doing good and he was proud of me."  As pathetic as I was at the time those
> words reached into the parts of me that were numb from this journey and
> help start the Life Engines up again.
>
> Let me explain it like this: when the worst of the withdrawals are
> settling in; you know the things we feeeeeel when we're crashing?  Well
> since every single cell is depleted, you are depleted body, soul, and
> spirit.  So in my experience all these "verbs" such as depression,
> despair, grief, fear, anyxt, (just to mention a few) shift into nouns...These
> terrorizing emotions stop being what you feel and turn into who you are.
>  You ARE fear, you ARE hopelessness, you ARE rejected, you ARE rage.  For
> me; it was one of the closest taste I can think of to what I would picture
> a literal Hell to be.  It was a space of time where I was experiencing a
> complete void of anything good.  Void of Mercy.  Void of life.  Absolute
> desolation on every level.  So when something as simple as kind words are
> spoken it's like giving a cup of water to someone who's been lost in the
> desert.  Especially; since in my eye's since I deserved every little bit of
> agony coming my way.  I knew I was playing with fire by messing around with
> this crap.  Compassion is a lifesaving ACTION and there are just no
> words...(I can't even think about this without crying my eyeballs out).
>  Then you tie that in with a COMPLETELY NEW type of the foulest pain
> imaginable that starts on the INSIDE and worms it way out and it's enough
> to drive a man crazy.
>
> What going on physically is a cross between Alien and Poltergeist and YOU
> HAVE NO SAY OVER HOW MUCH OR HOW LONG THAT WILL HAPPEN.
>
> I survived "cold turkey" because I was clueless and luck and nothing that
> I would describe as strong or noble.  It was the HARD way to get results
> that many others can attain without driving themselves off the deep end.  @
> Jim I would rather die than go through that again.  I have NO plans to
> touch Methadone for as long as I live.  One good thing from that experience
> is I see it for the lying, dirty, conniving, insidious monster that it
> is...now if I could just get the same attitude about hydro's!  I don't know
> why I love those...
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:53 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] sergey response
>
> Hi Danielle,
>
> How many mg were you taking and how long before you were in fair
> condition?  Yes, the Met w/d are harsh and go on for a long time.  Your
> better off kicking a heroin habit than Met, try not to do it too often.
>
> @Serge
>
> You might as well taper the best you can without much pain.  Danielle has
> a good point and I was wondering why you would try to do it at 42 mg.  It
> may be hard so don't try too hard and get bogue, I could go down to 30 or
> 35 but then would get the cravings and use.  It seems like you can not
> taper off of it without suffering.
>
> Best,
>
>   - JIM
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good for you Sergie!
> I have the same concerns as Danielle, I feel you girl. One time my parents
> locked me in my room and tried to make me kick 90mgs of Methadone that I
> had been on for 3 years! My mom would only  give me Advil every 8 hrs.
> I ended up escaping my parents house and checked myself in to the Mental
> Hospital , where they gave me my Methadone.  Horrible experience to say the
> least.
>  Anyways I checked back at
> http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=86136, (This is a good read
> for anyone considering to stop Methadone Maintenance by switching to Kratom
> )
> Sergie, I know you have already read it, but here it is anyways.....  The
> woman that is documented went from 55mgs of Methadone to Kratom, to
> Ibogaine.
> The only thing I can tell you through my own experience is it was quite
> easy for me to switch from Sub to Kratom, but when I started using SAOs it
> was very hard to control myself, and I was always running out, which led me
> to heroin for the first time.
> I'm glad I had my treatment in place, I  smoked H for 2 days. That could
> have gotten out of control real fast. Thank God, I had all you here to show
> me other options besides H.
> I am happy that you have a plan in place!
> You are worth it!
> I am so excited for you!
> Lotsof Love, Val
>  Star,
>
> thank you for the kind words.
> :D
>
> Ok, I see now, about your son.
> Wow, it must be such a relief.
> I don't have children yet, although I dream about having identical twins.
> But I have animals, a dog and a cat, which I really love.
> I know it's a very pale comparison, but nevertheless, I can relate to
> caring about someone. I have a girl that I love.
>
> So 6 month of abuse and a year on Sub.
> That's great news, NOW THAT HE'S CLEAN.
> I mean, from what I researched and saw with my own eyes, the point of no
> return
> for brain chemistry starts from a year'n'half-2 years of heavy abuse.
> But even then, somebody who abused for 5 years or someone who abused for
> 15,
> there's a big difference in their brain's ability to recover, I'm sure of
> that.
> It's the same concept for everything and anything:
> the longer you abuse, the higher the price to pay.
>
> Wish you well
> Sergey
>
> P.S Im ordering Kratom next week, see how it works and if I can jump to it
> from 42 mls of Methadone.
> Worst case I can get Hydromorphs, which is really WORST CASE.
> The only difference between hydro and Heroin, is that hydro comes in a
> pill and is sold
> in a pharmacy, none other.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:55 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Sergey, you are such a nice dude, I wish my oldest son that is 34 just had
> a big hunk of your kindness, oh well that's the way it goes... well
> Sergey,  Christian, the 29 years old was using sao's (lots) for 6 months or
> longer, then he went to sub, wow, he would overtake that it was crazy... I
> of course knew nothing then about any of this so I was pretty clueless, I
> think he took the sub about 8 months to a year before his first
> ibo treatment so it wasn't a really long time, i think he was clean about a
> year and relapsed for about 4 months on sub ... so he really did not have a
> long history. of abuse.  He researched ibogaine to death and was excited to
> do it, of course until he actually did it, he had a pertty hard time with
> it, it wasn't any picnic for sure....now, after thinking about it longer,
> these people that go to a treatment center probably have to get in and out
> of there in about 5 days so to make sure they are all healed it makes sense
> to be off sub 3 months... plus depending on how long they were on sub would
> make a difference.  It would be nice if there was some chart time of use of
> sub and time to be off sao's for ibo treatemnt................ but maybe i
> dont know what i am talking about  hahaha
>
> It would be nice for sister to respond to this..... girlfriend????
>
> Well Serge, i can't wait til you do your treatment, you are certainly
> preparing yourself for it, great researching!!
>
> Happy Holidays to you!!  xoxo  Star
>
> Star,
>
> Hey Star!
> Wish you the best this time of year, happy holidays to you and people close
> to you.
>
> What you say about HCL VS TA/PA is pretty much the conclusion I came to.
> That Ibogaine/HCL is the real addiction interrupter, kind of does all the
> "body/brain work" in that sphere, seems very likely from everything I
> researched and heard.
> And TA/PA has all the other Iboga alkaloids that give a person more
> spiritually.
> Makes sense since the original Iboga plant is NOT only Ibogaine.
> Bwiti do root bark and they are the original shamans of Ibo plant.
>
> Now concerning the switch to SAO's and the waiting time prior to flood?.
> > From what I understand, THE LONGER one is on long-life opioids such as
> Sub or Methadone, the longer the switch.
> Makes sense as well.
> Long life opioids rob the brain of it's ability to adapt and steal it's
> reference point
> in regards to normal endorphine functioning.
> With SAO's the brain re-adapts to being "sick", so rediscovers it's
> reference point.
> I weigh in my age VS time of abuse, which is 32 to 15?.
> Well, I guess I'm still young, but then I've abused drugs for half my life.
> I think I'll go with a month and a half?.
> Seems reasonable.
> I think 3 months should be for the worst case scenario.
> I hope I calculate it right.
>
> If I might ask, what's your son's ratio for "age VS abuse" time?
> 2 weeks seems way too fast.
> I mean, the Subs WD, the pure physical ones, I'm not even mentioning PAWS,
> last like a month and a half at the very least. That's how long it takes
> the brain to re-adapt half-way?
> So I think the minimum for long-life ops should be at the very least a
> month.
> But, like you said, what do I know?
> :D
> I haven't even done my own flood yet.
> All I do is research and gather in vivo experiences and opinions of those
> who have
> a similar life-story.
> It's pretty useful though.
>
> Ok Star, I'll talk to you soon.
> Wish you well
> Sergey
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Wish you well*
>
>
>
> Sergey
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20131219/a40ca540/attachment.html>


More information about the Ibogaine mailing list