[Ibogaine] sergey response

Valarie val.needis at gmail.com
Wed Dec 18 01:11:20 CST 2013

Help me....
It is getting confusing.  I was told 3 months off Bufenorphine,
2-3 weeks off Methadone.

I am just worried for people who have to go to a SAO.
3 months, well..... a lot can happen in 3 months, and although I am glad I
waited because of my history and Sub use, is it really necessary for
someone to be off Methadone for 3 months before their Ibogaine treatment?
I feel like people are lumping Sub and Methadone in the same category,
when they are not the same,

Lotsof Love, Val
On Dec 17, 2013 10:52 PM, "Sister" <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I kicked sub.  Was never intense for me compared to other dope.  Just that
> it never ended.  Never mire then 3 out of ten.  Now same shit with lethargy
> etc.  it was just at 6 no I felt sane as month one.  Still no sleep and
> sweating.  Kicking h or oxy was about over after a month
> Smooth journey,
> Sister
> On Dec 17, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Danielle,
> I think I was on day 10 of my Methadone withdrawal before I went
> completely insane and acted accordingly to get myself institutionalized.
> I think it should be 100% illegal to MAKE someone kick Methadone or
> Bufenorophine cold turkey.  I consider that TORTURE!
> In my experience I could go like 3-4 days without Bufenorphine and
> wouldn't even start to detox.
> My methadone detox was just getting started on day 5, by day 10 I could no
> longer take it.
> But my "plan" never involved a cold turkey.
> Once I truly wanted to be free,  I started planning for my ibogaine
> treatment.  By time the day of my treatment came,  I never wanted to go out
> with a bang, I was done and sooooo happy that there was a way out of this
> rat race where I did not have to feel that horrible pain that you describe
> so well.
> That is quite amazing that you actually went through a methadone detox
> like that! I have actually NEVER heard of someone being able to kick
> Methadone cold turkey unless they were in jail.
> My fear with Methadone was always WTF am I going to do if there is an
> earthquake or something and they close the clinic.
> Oh that just reminded me of part of my ibogaine experience, I was like a
> fading light in a long line of other fading lights , (I think I was suppose
> to be in line at the clinic)  and I realized that I did not need a drug for
> my light to be bright.
> Huh...weird.
> I feel like sometimes I will just remember something about my ibogaine
> experience out of no where.
> Is that "normal?"
> Well anyway,  any type of opiot detox is fuckin hard,  I just personally
> feel that Methadone and Bufenorphine are even worst!
> Lotsof Love, Val
> On Dec 17, 2013 6:37 PM, "danielle" <danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> It would be fair to say about 40 mgs were in my system.  The absolute
>> debilitating part was about a month.  I was about 3 months into it when I
>> got frustrated and turned to hydro's.  It's like my normal equilibrium
>> wouldn't quick in.  I have responsibilities.  I NEED to function on some
>> level and 3 months is A LONG TIME so I broke...BUT I gotta give props to my
>> husband for his part in helping me out of that quicksand.  I was thinking
>> about it a lot today.  The experience was very traumatic and I have a
>> "trauma box" somewhere in my brain I prefer to shove things into when I
>> don't know how to process it.  I just remember laying in bed completely
>> depleted and feeling like the WORLDS BIGGEST SPOILED BRAT LOSER (as there
>> are people with much harder circumstances than me that haven't caved to
>> this crap), and my Husband would come in the room and tell me ; "I was
>> doing good and he was proud of me."  As pathetic as I was at the time those
>> words reached into the parts of me that were numb from this journey and
>> help start the Life Engines up again.
>> Let me explain it like this: when the worst of the withdrawals are
>> settling in; you know the things we feeeeeel when we're crashing?  Well
>> since every single cell is depleted, you are depleted body, soul, and
>> spirit.  So in my experience all these "verbs" such as depression,
>> despair, grief, fear, anyxt, (just to mention a few) shift into nouns...These
>> terrorizing emotions stop being what you feel and turn into who you are.
>>  You ARE fear, you ARE hopelessness, you ARE rejected, you ARE rage.  For
>> me; it was one of the closest taste I can think of to what I would picture
>> a literal Hell to be.  It was a space of time where I was experiencing a
>> complete void of anything good.  Void of Mercy.  Void of life.  Absolute
>> desolation on every level.  So when something as simple as kind words are
>> spoken it's like giving a cup of water to someone who's been lost in the
>> desert.  Especially; since in my eye's since I deserved every little bit of
>> agony coming my way.  I knew I was playing with fire by messing around with
>> this crap.  Compassion is a lifesaving ACTION and there are just no
>> words...(I can't even think about this without crying my eyeballs out).
>>  Then you tie that in with a COMPLETELY NEW type of the foulest pain
>> imaginable that starts on the INSIDE and worms it way out and it's enough
>> to drive a man crazy.
>> What going on physically is a cross between Alien and Poltergeist and YOU
>> I survived "cold turkey" because I was clueless and luck and nothing that
>> I would describe as strong or noble.  It was the HARD way to get results
>> that many others can attain without driving themselves off the deep end.  @
>> Jim I would rather die than go through that again.  I have NO plans to
>> touch Methadone for as long as I live.  One good thing from that experience
>> is I see it for the lying, dirty, conniving, insidious monster that it
>> is...now if I could just get the same attitude about hydro's!  I don't know
>> why I love those...
>>   ------------------------------
>>  *From:* Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:53 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] sergey response
>> Hi Danielle,
>> How many mg were you taking and how long before you were in fair
>> condition?  Yes, the Met w/d are harsh and go on for a long time.  Your
>> better off kicking a heroin habit than Met, try not to do it too often.
>> @Serge
>> You might as well taper the best you can without much pain.  Danielle has
>> a good point and I was wondering why you would try to do it at 42 mg.  It
>> may be hard so don't try too hard and get bogue, I could go down to 30 or
>> 35 but then would get the cravings and use.  It seems like you can not
>> taper off of it without suffering.
>> Best,
>>   - JIM
>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good for you Sergie!
>> I have the same concerns as Danielle, I feel you girl. One time my
>> parents locked me in my room and tried to make me kick 90mgs of Methadone
>> that I had been on for 3 years! My mom would only  give me Advil every 8
>> hrs.
>> I ended up escaping my parents house and checked myself in to the Mental
>> Hospital , where they gave me my Methadone.  Horrible experience to say the
>> least.
>>  Anyways I checked back at
>> http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=86136, (This is a good read
>> for anyone considering to stop Methadone Maintenance by switching to Kratom
>> )
>> Sergie, I know you have already read it, but here it is anyways.....  The
>> woman that is documented went from 55mgs of Methadone to Kratom, to
>> Ibogaine.
>> The only thing I can tell you through my own experience is it was quite
>> easy for me to switch from Sub to Kratom, but when I started using SAOs it
>> was very hard to control myself, and I was always running out, which led me
>> to heroin for the first time.
>> I'm glad I had my treatment in place, I  smoked H for 2 days. That could
>> have gotten out of control real fast. Thank God, I had all you here to show
>> me other options besides H.
>> I am happy that you have a plan in place!
>> You are worth it!
>> I am so excited for you!
>> Lotsof Love, Val
>>  Star,
>> thank you for the kind words.
>> :D
>> Ok, I see now, about your son.
>> Wow, it must be such a relief.
>> I don't have children yet, although I dream about having identical twins.
>> But I have animals, a dog and a cat, which I really love.
>> I know it's a very pale comparison, but nevertheless, I can relate to
>> caring about someone. I have a girl that I love.
>> So 6 month of abuse and a year on Sub.
>> That's great news, NOW THAT HE'S CLEAN.
>> I mean, from what I researched and saw with my own eyes, the point of no
>> return
>> for brain chemistry starts from a year'n'half-2 years of heavy abuse.
>> But even then, somebody who abused for 5 years or someone who abused for
>> 15,
>> there's a big difference in their brain's ability to recover, I'm sure of
>> that.
>> It's the same concept for everything and anything:
>> the longer you abuse, the higher the price to pay.
>> Wish you well
>> Sergey
>> P.S Im ordering Kratom next week, see how it works and if I can jump to it
>> from 42 mls of Methadone.
>> Worst case I can get Hydromorphs, which is really WORST CASE.
>> The only difference between hydro and Heroin, is that hydro comes in a
>> pill and is sold
>> in a pharmacy, none other.
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:55 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>wrote:
>> Sergey, you are such a nice dude, I wish my oldest son that is 34 just
>> had a big hunk of your kindness, oh well that's the way it goes... well
>> Sergey,  Christian, the 29 years old was using sao's (lots) for 6 months or
>> longer, then he went to sub, wow, he would overtake that it was crazy... I
>> of course knew nothing then about any of this so I was pretty clueless, I
>> think he took the sub about 8 months to a year before his first
>> ibo treatment so it wasn't a really long time, i think he was clean about a
>> year and relapsed for about 4 months on sub ... so he really did not have a
>> long history. of abuse.  He researched ibogaine to death and was excited to
>> do it, of course until he actually did it, he had a pertty hard time with
>> it, it wasn't any picnic for sure....now, after thinking about it longer,
>> these people that go to a treatment center probably have to get in and out
>> of there in about 5 days so to make sure they are all healed it makes sense
>> to be off sub 3 months... plus depending on how long they were on sub would
>> make a difference.  It would be nice if there was some chart time of use of
>> sub and time to be off sao's for ibo treatemnt................ but maybe i
>> dont know what i am talking about  hahaha
>> It would be nice for sister to respond to this..... girlfriend????
>> Well Serge, i can't wait til you do your treatment, you are certainly
>> preparing yourself for it, great researching!!
>> Happy Holidays to you!!  xoxo  Star
>> Star,
>> Hey Star!
>> Wish you the best this time of year, happy holidays to you and people
>> close
>> to you.
>> What you say about HCL VS TA/PA is pretty much the conclusion I came to.
>> That Ibogaine/HCL is the real addiction interrupter, kind of does all the
>> "body/brain work" in that sphere, seems very likely from everything I
>> researched and heard.
>> And TA/PA has all the other Iboga alkaloids that give a person more
>> spiritually.
>> Makes sense since the original Iboga plant is NOT only Ibogaine.
>> Bwiti do root bark and they are the original shamans of Ibo plant.
>> Now concerning the switch to SAO's and the waiting time prior to flood?.
>> > From what I understand, THE LONGER one is on long-life opioids such as
>> Sub or Methadone, the longer the switch.
>> Makes sense as well.
>> Long life opioids rob the brain of it's ability to adapt and steal it's
>> reference point
>> in regards to normal endorphine functioning.
>> With SAO's the brain re-adapts to being "sick", so rediscovers it's
>> reference point.
>> I weigh in my age VS time of abuse, which is 32 to 15?.
>> Well, I guess I'm still young, but then I've abused drugs for half my
>> life.
>> I think I'll go with a month and a half?.
>> Seems reasonable.
>> I think 3 months should be for the worst case scenario.
>> I hope I calculate it right.
>> If I might ask, what's your son's ratio for "age VS abuse" time?
>> 2 weeks seems way too fast.
>> I mean, the Subs WD, the pure physical ones, I'm not even mentioning PAWS,
>> last like a month and a half at the very least. That's how long it takes
>> the brain to re-adapt half-way?
>> So I think the minimum for long-life ops should be at the very least a
>> month.
>> But, like you said, what do I know?
>> :D
>> I haven't even done my own flood yet.
>> All I do is research and gather in vivo experiences and opinions of those
>> who have
>> a similar life-story.
>> It's pretty useful though.
>> Ok Star, I'll talk to you soon.
>> Wish you well
>> Sergey
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>> *Wish you well*
>> Sergey
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