[Ibogaine] sergey response

Valarie val.needis at gmail.com
Tue Dec 17 21:26:07 CST 2013


Danielle,
I think I was on day 10 of my Methadone withdrawal before I went completely
insane and acted accordingly to get myself institutionalized.
I think it should be 100% illegal to MAKE someone kick Methadone or
Bufenorophine cold turkey.  I consider that TORTURE!
In my experience I could go like 3-4 days without Bufenorphine and wouldn't
even start to detox.
My methadone detox was just getting started on day 5, by day 10 I could no
longer take it.
But my "plan" never involved a cold turkey.
Once I truly wanted to be free,  I started planning for my ibogaine
treatment.  By time the day of my treatment came,  I never wanted to go out
with a bang, I was done and sooooo happy that there was a way out of this
rat race where I did not have to feel that horrible pain that you describe
so well.
That is quite amazing that you actually went through a methadone detox like
that! I have actually NEVER heard of someone being able to kick Methadone
cold turkey unless they were in jail.
My fear with Methadone was always WTF am I going to do if there is an
earthquake or something and they close the clinic.
Oh that just reminded me of part of my ibogaine experience, I was like a
fading light in a long line of other fading lights , (I think I was suppose
to be in line at the clinic)  and I realized that I did not need a drug for
my light to be bright.
Huh...weird.
I feel like sometimes I will just remember something about my ibogaine
experience out of no where.
Is that "normal?"
Well anyway,  any type of opiot detox is fuckin hard,  I just personally
feel that Methadone and Bufenorphine are even worst!

Lotsof Love, Val
On Dec 17, 2013 6:37 PM, "danielle" <danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> It would be fair to say about 40 mgs were in my system.  The absolute
> debilitating part was about a month.  I was about 3 months into it when I
> got frustrated and turned to hydro's.  It's like my normal equilibrium
> wouldn't quick in.  I have responsibilities.  I NEED to function on some
> level and 3 months is A LONG TIME so I broke...BUT I gotta give props to my
> husband for his part in helping me out of that quicksand.  I was thinking
> about it a lot today.  The experience was very traumatic and I have a
> "trauma box" somewhere in my brain I prefer to shove things into when I
> don't know how to process it.  I just remember laying in bed completely
> depleted and feeling like the WORLDS BIGGEST SPOILED BRAT LOSER (as there
> are people with much harder circumstances than me that haven't caved to
> this crap), and my Husband would come in the room and tell me ; "I was
> doing good and he was proud of me."  As pathetic as I was at the time those
> words reached into the parts of me that were numb from this journey and
> help start the Life Engines up again.
>
> Let me explain it like this: when the worst of the withdrawals are
> settling in; you know the things we feeeeeel when we're crashing?  Well
> since every single cell is depleted, you are depleted body, soul, and
> spirit.  So in my experience all these "verbs" such as depression,
> despair, grief, fear, anyxt, (just to mention a few) shift into nouns...These
> terrorizing emotions stop being what you feel and turn into who you are.
>  You ARE fear, you ARE hopelessness, you ARE rejected, you ARE rage.  For
> me; it was one of the closest taste I can think of to what I would picture
> a literal Hell to be.  It was a space of time where I was experiencing a
> complete void of anything good.  Void of Mercy.  Void of life.  Absolute
> desolation on every level.  So when something as simple as kind words are
> spoken it's like giving a cup of water to someone who's been lost in the
> desert.  Especially; since in my eye's since I deserved every little bit of
> agony coming my way.  I knew I was playing with fire by messing around with
> this crap.  Compassion is a lifesaving ACTION and there are just no
> words...(I can't even think about this without crying my eyeballs out).
>  Then you tie that in with a COMPLETELY NEW type of the foulest pain
> imaginable that starts on the INSIDE and worms it way out and it's enough
> to drive a man crazy.
>
> What going on physically is a cross between Alien and Poltergeist and YOU
> HAVE NO SAY OVER HOW MUCH OR HOW LONG THAT WILL HAPPEN.
>
> I survived "cold turkey" because I was clueless and luck and nothing that
> I would describe as strong or noble.  It was the HARD way to get results
> that many others can attain without driving themselves off the deep end.  @
> Jim I would rather die than go through that again.  I have NO plans to
> touch Methadone for as long as I live.  One good thing from that experience
> is I see it for the lying, dirty, conniving, insidious monster that it
> is...now if I could just get the same attitude about hydro's!  I don't know
> why I love those...
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:53 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] sergey response
>
> Hi Danielle,
>
> How many mg were you taking and how long before you were in fair
> condition?  Yes, the Met w/d are harsh and go on for a long time.  Your
> better off kicking a heroin habit than Met, try not to do it too often.
>
> @Serge
>
> You might as well taper the best you can without much pain.  Danielle has
> a good point and I was wondering why you would try to do it at 42 mg.  It
> may be hard so don't try too hard and get bogue, I could go down to 30 or
> 35 but then would get the cravings and use.  It seems like you can not
> taper off of it without suffering.
>
> Best,
>
>   - JIM
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good for you Sergie!
> I have the same concerns as Danielle, I feel you girl. One time my parents
> locked me in my room and tried to make me kick 90mgs of Methadone that I
> had been on for 3 years! My mom would only  give me Advil every 8 hrs.
> I ended up escaping my parents house and checked myself in to the Mental
> Hospital , where they gave me my Methadone.  Horrible experience to say the
> least.
>  Anyways I checked back at
> http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=86136, (This is a good read
> for anyone considering to stop Methadone Maintenance by switching to Kratom
> )
> Sergie, I know you have already read it, but here it is anyways.....  The
> woman that is documented went from 55mgs of Methadone to Kratom, to
> Ibogaine.
> The only thing I can tell you through my own experience is it was quite
> easy for me to switch from Sub to Kratom, but when I started using SAOs it
> was very hard to control myself, and I was always running out, which led me
> to heroin for the first time.
> I'm glad I had my treatment in place, I  smoked H for 2 days. That could
> have gotten out of control real fast. Thank God, I had all you here to show
> me other options besides H.
> I am happy that you have a plan in place!
> You are worth it!
> I am so excited for you!
> Lotsof Love, Val
>  Star,
>
> thank you for the kind words.
> :D
>
> Ok, I see now, about your son.
> Wow, it must be such a relief.
> I don't have children yet, although I dream about having identical twins.
> But I have animals, a dog and a cat, which I really love.
> I know it's a very pale comparison, but nevertheless, I can relate to
> caring about someone. I have a girl that I love.
>
> So 6 month of abuse and a year on Sub.
> That's great news, NOW THAT HE'S CLEAN.
> I mean, from what I researched and saw with my own eyes, the point of no
> return
> for brain chemistry starts from a year'n'half-2 years of heavy abuse.
> But even then, somebody who abused for 5 years or someone who abused for
> 15,
> there's a big difference in their brain's ability to recover, I'm sure of
> that.
> It's the same concept for everything and anything:
> the longer you abuse, the higher the price to pay.
>
> Wish you well
> Sergey
>
> P.S Im ordering Kratom next week, see how it works and if I can jump to it
> from 42 mls of Methadone.
> Worst case I can get Hydromorphs, which is really WORST CASE.
> The only difference between hydro and Heroin, is that hydro comes in a
> pill and is sold
> in a pharmacy, none other.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:55 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Sergey, you are such a nice dude, I wish my oldest son that is 34 just had
> a big hunk of your kindness, oh well that's the way it goes... well
> Sergey,  Christian, the 29 years old was using sao's (lots) for 6 months or
> longer, then he went to sub, wow, he would overtake that it was crazy... I
> of course knew nothing then about any of this so I was pretty clueless, I
> think he took the sub about 8 months to a year before his first
> ibo treatment so it wasn't a really long time, i think he was clean about a
> year and relapsed for about 4 months on sub ... so he really did not have a
> long history. of abuse.  He researched ibogaine to death and was excited to
> do it, of course until he actually did it, he had a pertty hard time with
> it, it wasn't any picnic for sure....now, after thinking about it longer,
> these people that go to a treatment center probably have to get in and out
> of there in about 5 days so to make sure they are all healed it makes sense
> to be off sub 3 months... plus depending on how long they were on sub would
> make a difference.  It would be nice if there was some chart time of use of
> sub and time to be off sao's for ibo treatemnt................ but maybe i
> dont know what i am talking about  hahaha
>
> It would be nice for sister to respond to this..... girlfriend????
>
> Well Serge, i can't wait til you do your treatment, you are certainly
> preparing yourself for it, great researching!!
>
> Happy Holidays to you!!  xoxo  Star
>
> Star,
>
> Hey Star!
> Wish you the best this time of year, happy holidays to you and people close
> to you.
>
> What you say about HCL VS TA/PA is pretty much the conclusion I came to.
> That Ibogaine/HCL is the real addiction interrupter, kind of does all the
> "body/brain work" in that sphere, seems very likely from everything I
> researched and heard.
> And TA/PA has all the other Iboga alkaloids that give a person more
> spiritually.
> Makes sense since the original Iboga plant is NOT only Ibogaine.
> Bwiti do root bark and they are the original shamans of Ibo plant.
>
> Now concerning the switch to SAO's and the waiting time prior to flood?.
> > From what I understand, THE LONGER one is on long-life opioids such as
> Sub or Methadone, the longer the switch.
> Makes sense as well.
> Long life opioids rob the brain of it's ability to adapt and steal it's
> reference point
> in regards to normal endorphine functioning.
> With SAO's the brain re-adapts to being "sick", so rediscovers it's
> reference point.
> I weigh in my age VS time of abuse, which is 32 to 15?.
> Well, I guess I'm still young, but then I've abused drugs for half my life.
> I think I'll go with a month and a half?.
> Seems reasonable.
> I think 3 months should be for the worst case scenario.
> I hope I calculate it right.
>
> If I might ask, what's your son's ratio for "age VS abuse" time?
> 2 weeks seems way too fast.
> I mean, the Subs WD, the pure physical ones, I'm not even mentioning PAWS,
> last like a month and a half at the very least. That's how long it takes
> the brain to re-adapt half-way?
> So I think the minimum for long-life ops should be at the very least a
> month.
> But, like you said, what do I know?
> :D
> I haven't even done my own flood yet.
> All I do is research and gather in vivo experiences and opinions of those
> who have
> a similar life-story.
> It's pretty useful though.
>
> Ok Star, I'll talk to you soon.
> Wish you well
> Sergey
>
>
>
>
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> --
> *Wish you well*
>
>
>
> Sergey
>
>
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