[Ibogaine] TA or HCL

danielle danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net
Mon Dec 16 15:09:18 CST 2013


Ha, ha "Brain Cooties"... I'm sure I have plenty of that; but my exposure to these meds were for the purpose of pain management and at the time I was open to trying ANYTHING.  If they wanted me to down raw bee pollen and cod liver oil while tapping my forehead and rubbing my belly wearing a Tu Tu I would've done it.

Like I've mentioned before; I have a genetic and prior injury related disc deterioration that causes pain in my back and down my legs similar to being electrocuted, and it's about as REAL AS IT GETS.  It's like my spine is being grated on a cheese grater.  It's the worst in the morning.  I mean like screaming type pain.  As I move and take a shower (anything with heat is AWESOME) it becomes tolerable.  Then I stretch, ease into my workout, and so on.  Basically a huge portion of my days are about buying myself time increments of pain free mobility.  This was actually one of my main motivators for becoming a Massage Therapist.  I was trying to learn my options in managing my "issues".  I know our bodies are incredibly sophisticated and there are ways to amplify and expedite healing in completely natural ways.  Plus; being involved in sports I've experienced it's benefits in enhancing performance, and it's effectiveness as a coping tool.
  Massage Therapy is a rejuvenating, and healing module on levels reaching far past the physical remedies.  I call it the "art of relaxation".  Basically I LOVE what I do for a living!  Anywhoooo...   

I know I've shared privately with you Jim that Fentanyl, Oxycontin, Percocet, and all the other extreme forms of pain relief have been offered to me, but since my track record with hydrocodone has been less than stellar I know if I accept these scripts I might as well put a gun to my head and pull the trigger.  My physical breakdowns were happening long before I accepted medicinal options so I know not everything I'm experiencing is side effects of stuff.  HOWEVER I know that I know that I know that I can't mess around with even stronger options.  I may not be holding any world records on drug abuse this time around BUT during my last rendezvous with addiction 12 years ago (different drug of choice) things got really out of control really fast and I'm confident that I have the same potential this time around if I don't put the brakes on things in a powerful way.  So here I am...

The time of actual "abuse" of opiates would be 2 years.  One year Hydrocodone, then when that usage skyrocketed my Doc transitioned me to Methadone (I'd been taking painkillers on/off since "08" and the wrong mentality was certainly there, but the literal abuse hadn't started yet).  I didn't "abuse" Methadone; but I was in addiction mode by the time I switched so I don't really know what that means for me.  Whatever it means; I have to stay away from it all, and I'm not trying to justify anything it's just that it is confusing...I know I shouldn't have "cold turkeyed" everything; but I did.  So ya know, here I am.  

I doubt I'll try AD's again unless I was dealing with a suicidal depression; in which case I would take them with a song in my heart and a skip in my step.  I mean; THANK GOD we have that kind of medical technology available.  Placebo or not if it works then great!  Other than that I'm certainly in the learning processing of remapping out my options health wise.  It's a info overload but I'm processing it...


________________________________
 From: Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] TA or HCL
 


Hi Danielle,


The aches and pains you are having can go on for years, not as bad but still there.  It can also cause excessive sweating.  That was a big jump on the met and your not suppose to stop ADs cold turkey for the spinning room thing does not sound like Met, Met makes ya sick and I was never addicted to ADs but have read Bad things about them and call them brain shocks, like you turn your head and it takes a second for the world to catch up.  Google  Cymbalta withdrawals  and you will see all the problems it can cause.  I Googled many of them looking for a good one and none worked for me and made things a lot worse.  If you have been using for a long time it will take a long time to get better.  Six months after I quit Met I would still get a brief runny nose and a hot flash now and then and it was kind of like having the pain your in when you have a cold.

Check out this link, did you see the video that I gave a link to a video that is pretty interesting information on ADs.

Here's the link    www.crazymeds.us

Best,

  - JIM




On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM, danielle <danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I stopped taking Methadone at the tale end of August.  25-40 mgs depending on day; to zero overnight.  I don't know if the Short Acting Opiates I was taking in the interim are a factor but I swear there are times I'm still feeling it squish out of my brain.  It's most pronounced when I'm exercising.  I'll get brief dizzy spells.  Not like the room is spinning; but like everything shifts.  Sometimes I'll get a tingly sensation in my lips, and a numbness in my tongue.  I also still get hit with the rapid machine gun sneezing (it's SO ANNOYING).  The hardest to deal with is what I'm supposing is "phantom pain"...I'm in serious deep shit if that's real and doesn't go away.  I can't handle that forever.
>The research I've read about how long Methadone stays in your system is conflicting.  Plus I didn't just throw out the Methadone...during that same garbage dump I stopped taking 60 mgs of Cymbalta and 40 mgs of Prozac.  I know the two antidepressants together is a Serotonin overkill; but you've read the part about me having an addictive personality right?
>So my body was certainly crashing; and I don't have any graphs or charts to prove my suspicions but I'm fairly certain the residual stuff is the Methadone.  My point is that it's a very tricky drug to speculate how long it takes to leave your system.
>@ the people that have researched anti depressants; is the effectiveness they are supposed to have on chronic pain a placebo effect as well?   
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 5:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] TA or HCL
> 
>
>
>
>
>Serg,
>
>
>
>I do not know about your financial status but if possible do the 3 months so you do not have to repeat the Exp.  As you know many people have taken Ibo several times.  For me a w/d last at least a month with the first week and second being the worst but sill unable to sleep and that is on heroin.
>
>
>Best,
>
>
>  - JIM
> 
>
>
>
>On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Valarie <val.needis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hey Star, 
>>When I spoke with Eric Taub he told me 2 months off Sub and the chance that withdrawal would NOT come back was 75% and that percentage gets less and less the the shorter  time you wait .
>>I am glad I waited 3 months.
>>Those statistics are documented. 
>>.
>>Bufenorophine is a lot different then Methadone. 
>>
>>So it seems that if you only wait a few weeks you most likely will start to go through withdrawal Although there is still a small percentage that withdrawal won't come back. I'm happy your son was in that percentile.
>>The problem is these Ibogaine detox facilities that say you only need 2 weeks off Sub the patient feels good at first and then a few days later when the patient comes home they are sick again.
>>There already home by then, and most likely can't afford to go back to the facility. Or the person just doesn't believe that Ibogaine actually works. 
>>Bufenorophine binds the receptors in the brain , Ibogaine can not get in there to clear out a receptor that is still binded.
>>That's how I understood it anyways. 
>>I'm sooooo happy you are doing well. Love you girl. 
>>Lotsof Love,  Val
>>On Dec 15, 2013 12:23 PM, "Sergey Sibirian" <sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Star,
>>>
>>>
>>>Hey Star!
>>>Wish you the best this time of year, happy holidays to you and people close to you.
>>>
>>>
>>>What you say about HCL VS TA/PA is pretty much the conclusion I came to.
>>>That Ibogaine/HCL is the real addiction interrupter, kind of does all the "body/brain work" in that sphere, seems very likely from everything I researched and heard.
>>>And TA/PA has all the other Iboga alkaloids that give a person more spiritually.
>>>Makes sense since the original Iboga plant is NOT only Ibogaine.
>>>Bwiti do root bark and they are the original shamans of Ibo plant.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now concerning the switch to SAO's and the waiting time prior to flood….
>>>From what I understand, THE LONGER one is on long-life opioids such as
>>>Sub or Methadone, the longer the switch.
>>>Makes sense as well.
>>>Long life opioids rob the brain of it's ability to adapt and steal it's reference point
>>>in regards to normal endorphine functioning.
>>>With SAO's the brain re-adapts to being "sick", so rediscovers it's reference point.
>>>I weigh in my age VS time of abuse, which is 32 to 15….
>>>Well, I guess I'm still young, but then I've abused drugs for half my life.
>>>I think I'll go with a month and a half….
>>>Seems reasonable.
>>>I think 3 months should be for the worst case scenario.
>>>I hope I calculate it right.
>>>
>>>
>>>If I might ask, what's your son's ratio for "age VS abuse" time?
>>>2 weeks seems way too fast.
>>>I mean, the Subs WD, the pure physical ones, I'm not even mentioning PAWS,
>>>last like a month and a half at the very least. That's how long it takes the brain to re-adapt half-way…
>>>So I think the minimum for long-life ops should be at the very least a month.
>>>But, like you said, what do I know?
>>>:D
>>>I haven't even done my own flood yet.
>>>All I do is research and gather in vivo experiences and opinions of those who have 
>>>a similar life-story.
>>>It's pretty useful though.
>>>
>>>
>>>Ok Star, I'll talk to you soon.
>>>Wish you well
>>>Sergey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 7:11 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I would recommended 3/4 hcl and 1/4 TA,  I also got more out of the TA flood but I think the HCL really heals the body more, such as other problems, parasites, intestinal crud, candida,  etc....  I believe the HCL heals every organ in the body. The TA provided more visions, etc....  I used the TA for boosters.
>>>> 
>>>>I think HCL is used for people that have a severe addiction....my situation was a little different, no heavy addiction, mine was more of a dependency issue....................... for spiritual purposes, I would say TA.
>>>> 
>>>>None of it is easy on the body but I am sure it is much easier for a younger person!!!!!!!  At least that is what I have seen on UTube, but then you have someone that has been on sub or methadone and does HCL and is in bed for a week..... that does happen.  My own son was in bed for 4 straight days and did not talk til the 4th day.... he was coming off sub,  now he treated 2 weeks off sub but had to have another big booster after about 5 days... but it worked for him, he relapsed after about 6 months and retreated and has been straight for two years (THANK THE POWERS ABOVE)  I think 3 months is really stretching it for the time to be off sub but I know there are people who have more experience with this.  Now I did talk to another provider and she has never waited three months to treat post sub and has had wonderful results.  I guess the safer way to go with the best shot to a positive outcome  is to  wait... but I don't really think it is a
 great idea to be on SAO's that long UNLESS one is taking a very minimal amount... OK, but what do I know  HAHAHA
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>Good luck to all and LOVE,  Star
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>
>>>Wish you well
>>>      
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sergey
>>>
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