[Ibogaine] 18-MC Clinical trials.

junkboy junkboy64 at gmail.com
Sat Dec 14 11:18:59 CST 2013


id do hcl because i know how much easier it is, but i got more out of my
extract flood.



On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> DIY is do it yourself.  Of course that does not mean all by yourself you
> really should have a sitter.
>
> TA  is the Total Alkaloids which contain roughly half Ibogaine and half
> other alkaloids.  OK for boosters but Very rough on the system if you take
> 20 grams and try to detox.
>
> PA  is Precipitated Alkaloids which is stronger than the TA and can
> sometimes be used in place of the HCL.  It has been said that it can be
> used in a mg to mg basis meaning it can be as strong as the HCL like maybe
> 90%.
>
> @Junkboy,
>
> If you were to detox would you take the HCL, TA or PA?
>
> Just curious.
>
> @ Val
>
> Send your buds this link and see if they can get on.  I kind of remember
> getting on about 12 or so years ago, kinda strange.
>
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>
> Best to all,
>
>   - JIM
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:06 AM, danielle <danielle6175 at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>> Okay; I understood what you said except for: What a DIY?  ...and a TA?
>>  (please don't be annoyed)
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>>  *From:* sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:42 AM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] 18-MC Clinical trials.
>>
>> Yes it shows on EKG.  Dosn't actually mean a abn. EKG if asymptomatic.  I
>> watched three floods with continuos monitoring.   All three had
>> arrhythmia's, all three had a time of longer qt intervals (about12-16 hours
>> in).  All three did convert back to baseline at the 20-36 hour, some after
>> 72 hours. All three began with ekgs that were perfect.  If one of them qt
>> was longer then should have been prior or had another substance in system
>> that could contribute...I fear death would of been end result.  Healthy
>> will compensate.  If too compromised the body can not compensate fast
>> enough, crash is eminent.
>>
>> I was much more confident prior to seeing these three floods on a cardiac
>> monitor.  Since these experiences I've tighten up on my safety standards,
>> My screening, my explanation to client and honesty of risk. Bought aed, o2,
>> more emergecy meds.
>>
>> I know providers that don't even know how to take blood pressures or know
>> what's normal hr is, don't recognize an irreg heart rate if it slapped them
>> in the face.  So no, all "clinics" do not monitor or have any medical back
>> up around.  Many do. I know providers who don't have any emergency
>> equipment, no emergency training.  Hell, some using dope themselves but
>> need to make a living and choose to do this or continues too.  I know when
>> I was using if I was in a dark room for 10-36 hours I'd be nodded out for
>> sure.  Hell, wouldn't last 4 hours.  Hard enough treating someone clean.
>> I know of deaths that didn't make the research...they are hidden. Some
>> get out to public, some don't.  I am sure there are many deaths I'm not
>> aware of that others know about.
>>
>> No, a defib/aed does not correct qt, only converts v-fib, asystoli, etc.
>>  Only way I am aware to treat qt's too long is with a pacemaker.   I know
>> of a case that the man was being paced a week later in ICU after a dyi and
>> following suggestion of those who don't understand cardiac, instructed on
>> doses, told to do rectal dosing I think.  Not sure if he lived as I choose
>> not to get involved since he was in hospital. Wasn't involved from the get.
>>   Nothing more to contribute to help him really anyways.  He was where he
>> should be if any chance to survive at all.
>>
>> Blows me away how quick folks will tell another they have not assessed,
>> seen EKG, know their medical history or even met in person yet giving
>> instructions on how to do a flood.
>> There are very few I'd let flood me. Didn't feel this way till I sat with
>> a few myself.  I sorta wished I was not aware of dangers, what really
>> happens cardiac wise.  Now I do know I get no reprieve.  Not that ignorance
>> is blessed, maybe bliss.
>>
>> So I won't get involved with diy's.  I'm sure being a RN I'd be held to a
>> different standard then non medical.  Plus...I feel we are all have worth.
>>    I've stopped correcting all the misinformation.  Dosnt change anything
>> anyways.  I've written a few who I know do give Bad instructions, nothing
>> changed.  Not even a response back.  Do I feel we should have the right to
>> put what we want in our own bodies, yes I do.  At your own risk though.
>>  Shouldn't be bringing another down with them.
>> Even when info's been given by those who are respected involved with
>> plant, see same shit being said.   At ibo conference it was said that ta is
>> not a good choice for addiction.  I think the term they used was "dirty".
>>  Yet still being sold to laymen, instruction including ta along with Hcl at
>> doses that freak me out.  Even here, where most are involved, aware.  But
>> they're not present.  Death happens they are not responsible.  No sweat off
>> them.
>> I would hope that if one chooses to give "how too" advice they take the
>> responsibility to know what they are talking about.  At least know what
>> info is out there.  Here these MD's take the time to give presentation (for
>> free) maybe wise to listen?  I get not paying attention to me, I'm just a
>> nurse.
>>
>> Very happy these clinical trials are being done.  Maybe save some lives.
>>  I'm one that does hope this tool eventually is in the hands of medically
>> trained personal.  Unlike what I hear from some..I do want this legal in
>> the USA and done in a real clinical setting.  I hope I see it in my
>> lifetime.  I'll be the first to fill out app for the job.
>> Sister
>>
>> On Dec 11, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sis,
>>
>> If a person has a prolonged qt would it be detected during a normal EKG?
>>  If it goes too low will a defib help?  Do most places monitor it during
>> detox?
>>
>> Just Curious,
>>
>>   - JIM
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:05 PM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Qt intervals part of cardiac electrical current  The P Q R S T waves.
>>  Prolong qt interval is the time it takes from q wave to t wave.  I would
>> draw one but not that savvy on pc.  I know you've seen it some where.
>>
>> I don't know what else to say but the plant iboga does not knock opiates
>> off the receptor.  For instance, the substance Narcan will push the opiate
>> off the receptor.
>>
>> Adding ibogaine on top of methadone and many other meds/substance can
>> cause the time from q wave to t wave slow to point of death.  Hopefully
>> ones lucky enough to get treated before death.  Treatment as far as I know
>> is to pace the heart mechanically.
>> Does this clarify?
>> Sister
>>
>> On Dec 11, 2013, at 3:50 PM, Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sister,
>>
>> Can you you please do me (and others I assume) a favour
>> and re-write that post in English?
>> IN ENGLISH.
>>
>> I'm asking not to be hard or whatnot, but coz I want to know your opinion
>> on
>> this matter.
>>
>> What exactly is "prolonged QT"?
>>
>> Then, the following sentence makes no sense TO ME, I don't know about
>> others…
>> "...Second reason... Long acting, ibo does not push opiated off receptor
>> site.  So how effective of you want tx to be?
>>
>> I know no one ask but sorta sensitive about this , I lost a friend for
>> her inpatients, misinformation given to her about safety of mixing the two
>> substances.  Unnessasary death.
>> "
>>
>> Which "two substances"?
>>
>> Peace
>>
>> Sergey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well.. My take is this .  We KNOW methadone has high potential to prolong
>> qt.  it's documented by way too many studies.  As an er nurse seen many
>> times methadone addicts coming in complaining of sudden onset of severe
>> tiredness, weakness etc.  On assessment new med added.    Then do EKG and
>> find prolong qt.  what ever new med stopped.  We also know ibogaine can
>> also prolong qt, So increasing risk for death.
>> Second reason... Long acting, ibo does not push opiated off receptor
>> site.  So how effective of you want tx to be?
>>
>> I know no one ask but sorta sensitive about this , I lost a friend for
>> her inpatients, misinformation given to her about safety of mixing the two
>> substances.  Unnessasary death.
>>
>> Smooth journey,
>> Sister
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 5:20 PM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> sub is worse the methadone in my opinion.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Annette Dilucchio <dilucch at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> Just wanted to share this response I rec'd when I volunteered myself as a
>> subject in the clinical trials scheduled to begin next month on 18-MC.
>>  From what I make of it, the participants who will determine the safety of
>> this drug for addiction will not be in active addiction but rather healthy
>> individuals who've agreed to take the medication in order to document the
>> resulting physical side effects.
>>
>> As for me, Danielle thank you once again for your always comical and well
>> thought out input on my circumstances. I got called into work for my mom
>> last minute yesterday so my Dr.'s Appt has been rescheduled  for Thursday.
>> Which gives me time to think about how to get something useful out of my
>> visit. O-o  I got another month of methadone which knowing what I know now
>> feels more like a sentence of doom than any kind of relief. I cannot
>> believe I've signed on for another month of this unforgiving poison. Does
>> suboxone do what methadone does to your tolerance of opiates? Or does it
>> just HANG AROUND FOR 3 months??? I cannot decide which is the lesser of
>> these two evils. Why doesn't David Graham mention Short-Acting Opiates in
>> his successful ibogaine EXP? Anyhoo- hope all is well.
>>
>> Sincerely-  Annette
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From:* Stephen Hurst <slhurst at savanthwp.com>
>> *Date:* December 9, 2013 at 3:43:20 PM PST
>> *To:* Annette Dilucchio <dilucch at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* *Re: Clinical trials.*
>>
>> Dear Annette,
>>
>> Thank you for your interest in Savant HWP and our
>> addiction medicine project.  Unfortunately, it will be a while before
>> 18-MC is available to patients in the US.  Human studies begin early next
>> year but the initial trials will be in healthy volunteers in an effort to
>> determine safe dosage levels before treating patients.  Our first
>> obligation is to be sure the drug is not harmful and it will take at least
>> a
>> year to establish safety before treating patients.  I encourage you to
>> check our website from time to time where we will post information about
>> clinical trials as it becomes available.  In the meantime, we wish you all
>> the best in your recovery efforts.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Stephen L. Hurst, JD
>> President & CEO
>> Savant HWP, Inc.
>> 655 Skyway Road, Suite 212
>> San Carlos, CA 94070
>>
>>
>>
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>> --
>> *Wish you well*
>>
>>
>>
>> Sergey
>>
>>
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