[Ibogaine] SSRI/SNRI's after Ibo treatment

Matt S. ibogamail at gmail.com
Thu Dec 12 16:14:44 CST 2013

Don't misunderstand me brother, there is nothing at all wrong with 
placebo effect.  Anecdotally, placebo effect has been shown to be able 
to cure cancer.  And the bottom line is the effect has real value.  I 
think placebo effect has a bad connotation in that it implies something 
useless or worthless.   In terms of effecting relief of symptoms, 
placebo or not, real relief is real relief.  Like I said I also obtained 
an actual anti-depressant effect from SSRI's despite knowing what I know 
about them.  But the fact is, knowing that the true healing power of 
placebo comes from the self doesn't mean I can conjure that same healing 
power without the help of the placebo.  If it works then good.  My major 
malfunction with SSRI's was side effects.  I also experimented with a 
number of natural remedies. In the end I think the knowledge that it 
will eventually end is what lets me endure without resorting to them.  
At least I haven't resorted to them in a few years.  Aya also affects a 
relief of symptoms, sometimes only for a day but its pretty reliable for 
at least giving a days respite.  Winter can sometimes feel like a slog 
and I have for periods of time in the past ended up doing ayahuasca 
every weekend to help get through.   Over the years though I really do 
think the depression has gotten a little less severe and a little shorter.


On 12/12/2013 10:48 AM, Edward W. wrote:
> Hi Matt,
> Good to hear from you.  I do understand that you can relate on this 
> issue.  I do tend to differ on the power of placebo, at least in 
> regards to SSRI/SNRI's.  When I have experimented with other 
> alternative apparent anti-depressant substances, such as St. John's 
> Wort, Kanna, 5-HTP, and SAMe, I began with the influenced belief that 
> they would or might be effective.  The end result was that they were 
> not near as effective as a synthetic anti-depressant.  If the placebo 
> effect was involved in the these natural anti-depressant substances, 
> then It should have possibly been as effective as a synthetic 
> SSRI/SNRI.  I do understand the influence of the placebo effect, but I 
> sense it's limited influence when comparing a synthetic SSRI/SNRI and 
> other apparent natural anti-depressant substances
> I think Randy indicated a couple year ago that he had a need for 
> anti-depressants, even after an Ibo treatment.  Please forgive me if I 
> am incorrect Randy, but I do remember you sharing on this forum, 
> previously.
> Thanks for the advice Matt
> Thanks and Peace all.
> Edward W.
> On 12/12/2013 9:52 AM, Matt S. wrote:
>> HI Edward
>> As you know I have some experience with what you are discussing. I 
>> have researched depression treatments fairly extensively and the 
>> evidence suggests that whatever you believe will help, actually will 
>> help.  Which further suggests that basically the power of belief (or 
>> suggestion if you like) can itself overcome depression.  SSRI's are 
>> slightly better than placebo but the slight difference is very likely 
>> due to the fact that in a double blind trial, people who get the 
>> actual SSRI know it from the side effects.  So knowing they got the 
>> real drug instead of the placebo gives them the slight "belief boost" 
>> which makes the SSRI out perform placebo.  Knowing all of this, I too 
>> also still find them effective, or at least I did the last time I was 
>> on them.  But I also know that for me depression is cyclical and that 
>> literally doing nothing will eventually still result in the 
>> depression going away in time.  But doing nothing is not actually 
>> what I do. Although you would have to wait for the SSRI's to clear 
>> your system I am still an advocate for aya for depression.  I have 
>> also heard it does good things for alcoholism.  If I had to guess I 
>> would say that your depression is probably not entirely without 
>> connection to your inability to control your drinking.
>> You might also try 1000 or 2000 units of vitamin D a day to see if 
>> that helps any.  You probably know about the correlation between low 
>> vitamin D and depression although I do have to mention that the way 
>> they measure what is considered normal for D levels is a bit 
>> suspect.  They changed what the consider a normal range and alls of a 
>> sudden lots of people are "deficient".  Any time something like that 
>> happens you have to question the entire methodology.  Still though, 
>> might be worth the experiment if it helps you.
>> Matt
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