[Ibogaine] 18-MC Clinical trials.

sister sistereboga at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 12 07:42:04 CST 2013


Yes it shows on EKG.  Dosn't actually mean a abn. EKG if asymptomatic.  I watched three floods with continuos monitoring.   All three had arrhythmia's, all three had a time of longer qt intervals (about12-16 hours in).  All three did convert back to baseline at the 20-36 hour, some after 72 hours. All three began with ekgs that were perfect.  If one of them qt was longer then should have been prior or had another substance in system that could contribute...I fear death would of been end result.  Healthy will compensate.  If too compromised the body can not compensate fast enough, crash is eminent.  

I was much more confident prior to seeing these three floods on a cardiac monitor.  Since these experiences I've tighten up on my safety standards, My screening, my explanation to client and honesty of risk. Bought aed, o2, more emergecy meds.

I know providers that don't even know how to take blood pressures or know what's normal hr is, don't recognize an irreg heart rate if it slapped them in the face.  So no, all "clinics" do not monitor or have any medical back up around.  Many do. I know providers who don't have any emergency equipment, no emergency training.  Hell, some using dope themselves but need to make a living and choose to do this or continues too.  I know when I was using if I was in a dark room for 10-36 hours I'd be nodded out for sure.  Hell, wouldn't last 4 hours.  Hard enough treating someone clean.
I know of deaths that didn't make the research...they are hidden. Some get out to public, some don't.  I am sure there are many deaths I'm not aware of that others know about.

No, a defib/aed does not correct qt, only converts v-fib, asystoli, etc.  Only way I am aware to treat qt's too long is with a pacemaker.   I know of a case that the man was being paced a week later in ICU after a dyi and following suggestion of those who don't understand cardiac, instructed on doses, told to do rectal dosing I think.  Not sure if he lived as I choose not to get involved since he was in hospital. Wasn't involved from the get.   Nothing more to contribute to help him really anyways.  He was where he should be if any chance to survive at all.

Blows me away how quick folks will tell another they have not assessed, seen EKG, know their medical history or even met in person yet giving instructions on how to do a flood.
There are very few I'd let flood me. Didn't feel this way till I sat with a few myself.  I sorta wished I was not aware of dangers, what really happens cardiac wise.  Now I do know I get no reprieve.  Not that ignorance is blessed, maybe bliss.

So I won't get involved with diy's.  I'm sure being a RN I'd be held to a different standard then non medical.  Plus...I feel we are all have worth.    I've stopped correcting all the misinformation.  Dosnt change anything anyways.  I've written a few who I know do give Bad instructions, nothing changed.  Not even a response back.  Do I feel we should have the right to put what we want in our own bodies, yes I do.  At your own risk though.  Shouldn't be bringing another down with them.
Even when info's been given by those who are respected involved with plant, see same shit being said.   At ibo conference it was said that ta is not a good choice for addiction.  I think the term they used was "dirty".  Yet still being sold to laymen, instruction including ta along with Hcl at doses that freak me out.  Even here, where most are involved, aware.  But they're not present.  Death happens they are not responsible.  No sweat off them.
I would hope that if one chooses to give "how too" advice they take the responsibility to know what they are talking about.  At least know what info is out there.  Here these MD's take the time to give presentation (for free) maybe wise to listen?  I get not paying attention to me, I'm just a nurse.

Very happy these clinical trials are being done.  Maybe save some lives.  I'm one that does hope this tool eventually is in the hands of medically trained personal.  Unlike what I hear from some..I do want this legal in the USA and done in a real clinical setting.  I hope I see it in my lifetime.  I'll be the first to fill out app for the job.  
Sister

> On Dec 11, 2013, at 11:04 PM, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sis,
> 
> If a person has a prolonged qt would it be detected during a normal EKG?  If it goes too low will a defib help?  Do most places monitor it during detox?
> 
> Just Curious,
> 
>   - JIM
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:05 PM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Qt intervals part of cardiac electrical current  The P Q R S T waves.  Prolong qt interval is the time it takes from q wave to t wave.  I would draw one but not that savvy on pc.  I know you've seen it some where.  
>> 
>> I don't know what else to say but the plant iboga does not knock opiates off the receptor.  For instance, the substance Narcan will push the opiate off the receptor.
>> 
>> Adding ibogaine on top of methadone and many other meds/substance can cause the time from q wave to t wave slow to point of death.  Hopefully ones lucky enough to get treated before death.  Treatment as far as I know is to pace the heart mechanically.
>> Does this clarify?
>> Sister
>> 
>>> On Dec 11, 2013, at 3:50 PM, Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sister,
>>> 
>>> Can you you please do me (and others I assume) a favour
>>> and re-write that post in English?
>>> IN ENGLISH.
>>> 
>>> I'm asking not to be hard or whatnot, but coz I want to know your opinion on 
>>> this matter.
>>> 
>>> What exactly is "prolonged QT"?
>>> 
>>> Then, the following sentence makes no sense TO ME, I don't know about others…
>>> "...Second reason... Long acting, ibo does not push opiated off receptor site.  So how effective of you want tx to be?
>>> 
>>> I know no one ask but sorta sensitive about this , I lost a friend for her inpatients, misinformation given to her about safety of mixing the two substances.  Unnessasary death.   "
>>> 
>>> Which "two substances"?
>>> 
>>> Peace
>>> 
>>> Sergey
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Well.. My take is this .  We KNOW methadone has high potential to prolong qt.  it's documented by way too many studies.  As an er nurse seen many times methadone addicts coming in complaining of sudden onset of severe tiredness, weakness etc.  On assessment new med added.    Then do EKG and find prolong qt.  what ever new med stopped.  We also know ibogaine can also prolong qt, So increasing risk for death.
>>>> Second reason... Long acting, ibo does not push opiated off receptor site.  So how effective of you want tx to be?
>>>> 
>>>> I know no one ask but sorta sensitive about this , I lost a friend for her inpatients, misinformation given to her about safety of mixing the two substances.  Unnessasary death.  
>>>> 
>>>> Smooth journey,
>>>> Sister
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 5:20 PM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> sub is worse the methadone in my opinion. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Annette Dilucchio <dilucch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Just wanted to share this response I rec'd when I volunteered myself as a subject in the clinical trials scheduled to begin next month on 18-MC.  From what I make of it, the participants who will determine the safety of this drug for addiction will not be in active addiction but rather healthy individuals who've agreed to take the medication in order to document the resulting physical side effects.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for me, Danielle thank you once again for your always comical and well thought out input on my circumstances. I got called into work for my mom last minute yesterday so my Dr.'s Appt has been rescheduled  for Thursday. Which gives me time to think about how to get something useful out of my visit. O-o  I got another month of methadone which knowing what I know now feels more like a sentence of doom than any kind of relief. I cannot believe I've signed on for another month of this unforgiving poison. Does suboxone do what methadone does to your tolerance of opiates? Or does it just HANG AROUND FOR 3 months??? I cannot decide which is the lesser of these two evils. Why doesn't David Graham mention Short-Acting Opiates in his successful ibogaine EXP? Anyhoo- hope all is well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sincerely-  Annette
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Stephen Hurst <slhurst at savanthwp.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 9, 2013 at 3:43:20 PM PST
>>>>>> To: Annette Dilucchio <dilucch at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Clinical trials.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Annette,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you for your interest in Savant HWP and our
>>>>>> addiction medicine project.  Unfortunately, it will be a while before
>>>>>> 18-MC is available to patients in the US.  Human studies begin early next
>>>>>> year but the initial trials will be in healthy volunteers in an effort to
>>>>>> determine safe dosage levels before treating patients.  Our first
>>>>>> obligation is to be sure the drug is not harmful and it will take at least
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> year to establish safety before treating patients.  I encourage you to
>>>>>> check our website from time to time where we will post information about
>>>>>> clinical trials as it becomes available.  In the meantime, we wish you all
>>>>>> the best in your recovery efforts.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Stephen L. Hurst, JD
>>>>>> President & CEO
>>>>>> Savant HWP, Inc.
>>>>>> 655 Skyway Road, Suite 212
>>>>>> San Carlos, CA 94070
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Wish you well
>>>       
>>> 
>>> Sergey
>>> 
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