[Ibogaine] 18-MC Clinical trials.

Randy Faulconer bicuitboy714 at gmail.com
Wed Dec 11 05:08:22 CST 2013


       Are we talking tolerance or blocking level? Both of these drugs
actually block the effects of true opiates so it would be hard to
differentiate between the two if you ask me. I think this is an important
issue for us. Having been on methadone and subs both I have a little
experience with it, but I'm not clear on this either. I have way more
experience with methadone then subs as far as actually trying to do other
opiates when on them though. There is a point with methadone where you get
over the level of the blocking. 40 mgs of methadone was what I understood
to be a blocking dose. I don't know with subs, I guess it's 8? Also with
subs you have the nal involved too so that makes shit go outta kelter.
Bupon it's own is a blocker and the
nal being an antagonist changes the parameters a whole bunch, so for me if
I had to choose one over the other I think methadone is a little easier to
kick and treat with Ibogaine. Well more then a little imho. Tolerance means
it takes more for the same effect right? Blocking means it keeps it from
working altogether. Whatever the case may be, when you are addicted you
just want to get around it. I would think that when tolerance is involved
you can still observe effects of the opiate like respiratory depression,
pinned eyes and that look on your face when you get tattered. (as in
potatoe........tattered,
ie that boy been drinkin' all day he's tattered) other measurable things.
When the blocker is in effect you won't have that.

        Something different I have observed in my days of addiction. Wait a
minute isn't that a soap opera? "My Days Of Addiction" with Charley Sheen
and Courtney Love as the wacky drug addled stars interspersed with young
and old addicts from here and
afar......................................uuuuuuuuuu never mind.

      Sorry, so something I observed and was wondering about was has
anybody else had the situation where they did Demerol on top of Methadone?
Been my experience that Meth doesn't block Demerol at all it not being an
organic kind of opiate. As in from the poppy type dope. Has anybody ever
been treated with Ibogaine for a Demerol addiction? I guess I could see
what google says but I have found that the people here have more info then
google does so I'll just throw it out there.


                          Peace Love and The Underground
                              Randy





On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Sergey Sibirian <sibirianfox at gmail.com>wrote:

> Annette,
>
> hey there!
> For your question about SUB vs METHADONE.
>
> You know, I spent about a month here on that list annoying older members
> about that and doing a lot, A LOT of research..
> Plus, I'm on meth, and my girl,-on Sub.
> So…
> I feel pretty qualified to give more or less a precise answer.
> And, don't forget, I've conducted A LOT of of human trials on unhealthy
> volunteers.
> :D
> Seriously though.
> Methadone and Sub are both long life opioids.
> Meaning your brain looses it's reference point compared to SAO's because
> YOU
> NEVER GET SICK. Your receptors are always activated by a chemical,
> exogenous opioid.
> Like the beast in the beauty, can't express it more figuratively)
> Now tolerancewise.
> I can tell firsthand, because I saw it with my own eyes many times, that
> Sub has a much
> lower opioid tolerance threshold. Meaning that while on Sub, your
> tolerance is MUCH lower.
> My girl takes 8mg sub a day.
> Some time ago, all she had to take is 12mg hydromorphone by nose, and that
> important, coz by IV it halves, so 12 mg and she would nod like a freakin
> narcoleptic. I mean, she's OUT. She can't even talk properly and her eyes
> look in two different directions simultaneously.
> She goes out to smoke on the balcony and comes and I have to wake her up
> and drag her in an hour later.
> Anyway, you get the picture I think. :)
> Now if I used to take 12mg hydro, while being on about 60mg meth at the
> time, well….
> You know… A little something.
> To be at her level I would need at least 120mg, so x 10. I'm sure probably
> more.
>
> So that's the info I can give you on Sub vs Methadone.
> It makes sense to me, coz Sub is a partial agonist, meaning it activates
> your opioid
> receptors to a lesser degree then full agonists like all the first line
> opioids: meth, morphine, fent, H, hydro, oxy, etc…
> From what I learned, it doesn't change much for your addiction.
> *So a **long-life opioid will be a long-life opioid, and Sub and Meth
> are.*
> But in terms of tolerance there's definitely a huge difference.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Wish you well
>
> Sergey.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Annette Dilucchio <dilucch at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Just wanted to share this response I rec'd when I volunteered myself as a
>> subject in the clinical trials scheduled to begin next month on 18-MC.
>>  From what I make of it, the participants who will determine the safety of
>> this drug for addiction will not be in active addiction but rather healthy
>> individuals who've agreed to take the medication in order to document the
>> resulting physical side effects.
>>
>> As for me, Danielle thank you once again for your always comical and well
>> thought out input on my circumstances. I got called into work for my mom
>> last minute yesterday so my Dr.'s Appt has been rescheduled  for Thursday.
>> Which gives me time to think about how to get something useful out of my
>> visit. O-o  I got another month of methadone which knowing what I know now
>> feels more like a sentence of doom than any kind of relief. I cannot
>> believe I've signed on for another month of this unforgiving poison. Does
>> suboxone do what methadone does to your tolerance of opiates? Or does it
>> just HANG AROUND FOR 3 months??? I cannot decide which is the lesser of
>> these two evils. Why doesn't David Graham mention Short-Acting Opiates in
>> his successful ibogaine EXP? Anyhoo- hope all is well.
>>
>> Sincerely-  Annette
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From:* Stephen Hurst <slhurst at savanthwp.com>
>> *Date:* December 9, 2013 at 3:43:20 PM PST
>> *To:* Annette Dilucchio <dilucch at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* *Re: Clinical trials.*
>>
>> Dear Annette,
>>
>> Thank you for your interest in Savant HWP and our
>> addiction medicine project.  Unfortunately, it will be a while before
>> 18-MC is available to patients in the US.  Human studies begin early next
>> year but the initial trials will be in healthy volunteers in an effort to
>> determine safe dosage levels before treating patients.  Our first
>> obligation is to be sure the drug is not harmful and it will take at least
>> a
>> year to establish safety before treating patients.  I encourage you to
>> check our website from time to time where we will post information about
>> clinical trials as it becomes available.  In the meantime, we wish you all
>> the best in your recovery efforts.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Stephen L. Hurst, JD
>> President & CEO
>> Savant HWP, Inc.
>> 655 Skyway Road, Suite 212
>> San Carlos, CA 94070
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> *Wish you well*
>
>
>
> Sergey
>
>
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