[Ibogaine] successful eperience........

Vector Vector vector620022002 at yahoo.com
Wed Jan 18 06:57:34 EST 2012


Preston! It's good to see you! Haven't heard from you in years, I'm glad you are in the place you are right now!!! 



________________________________
 From: Preston Peet <prestonpeet at yahoo.com>
To: "ibogaine at mindvox.com" <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 5:19 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] successful eperience........
 

Hi all, long time no visit. 

I took appx 2 grams of a ibo extract this past Friday, and while extremely discombobulated still and wobbly as hell, I expunged an 80 ml methadone clinic hell.
Extremely difficult to walk and even stand or even sit up right STILL, I'm getting better every day, and I'm not feeling meth sick, though I had some major restless leg/twitches last night. I'm hoping that passes sooner than later.
WELCOME HOME DANA!!!!!!!!!!!
And I hope everyone else is doing well. It'd been six years since my last experience, and was more than a little nervous, even terrified. I told someone six years ago I was through with ibogaine, and his wife smiled at my, and said, "yes, but it is through with you. Anyway, just quick note here, Peace, love and Always Lotsof respect,
Preston



________________________________
 From: "ibogaine-request at mindvox.com" <ibogaine-request at mindvox.com>
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:10 PM
Subject: Ibogaine Digest, Vol 49, Issue 4
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Dear Ibogaine List (David Ray)
   2. David Bowie Turns 65 (DC from AZ)
   3. Re: Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
      itfeels post flood (Jim Hadey3)
   4.
 Medication (Chris Mallin)
   5. Re: Medication (junkboy)
   6. Re: Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
      itfeels post flood (Andrew)
   7. Re: Dear Ibogaine List (Eboka Man)
   8. Re: Medication (sister)
   9. Re: Medication (Edward W)
  10. Re: Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
      itfeels post flood (David Ray)
  11. Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon (Ted)
  12. Re: Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon (Sister)
  13. Re: Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon (Jim Hadey3)
  14. Re: Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon (Edward W)
  15. Re: Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon (Sister)
  16. Re: MS Contin (Donny Drake)
  17. Re: Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine (Donny Drake)
  18. Re: MS Contin (Sister)
  19. Re: Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon (Ted)
 
 20. Re: Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine (Donny Drake)
  21. Re: MS Contin (Donny Drake)
  22. Re: Medication (Andrew)
  23. Re: MS Contin (David Ray)
  24. Re: MS Contin (Sister)
  25. Re: Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine (Megan Simm)
  26. Re: Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine (Megan Simm)
  27. benzodiazepines (jeff goldstein)
  28. Re: benzodiazepines (Emma Sachs)
  29. Re: Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine (Jim Hadey3)
  30. Re: benzodiazepines (Andrew)
  31. Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Diboga SanFilippo)
  32. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Emma Sachs)
  33. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Sara Glatt)
  34. Re: Transitions | Unethical "Underground"
 Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Kevin Walker)
  35. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (sister)
  36. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (cbava108 at gmail.com)
  37. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Edward W)
  38. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Sister)
  39. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Sister)
  40. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (cbava108 at gmail.com)
  41. Re: Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
      Treatment Centers (Emma Sachs)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 12:13:06 +1100
From: David Ray <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Ibogaine List
Message-ID:
    <CAD_M9k3ftk6Cr1x5AL6jWzEFUErWXy2C=YNsN1-hugMAkjUKwg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

It does reset.  All evidence suggests
 this.  BUT  this reset is
temporary and precarious and can be wiped away in a couple of days,
like any reset.  Like you say, reset is no great trick.  The way
ibogaine works - I can sum up the entire experience of the group -
nobody knows.  It interacts with so many different neurotransmitter
mechanisms in the brain that there are endless theories.  It is
certain that some combination of these actions causes the effect.  It
takes away most of the withdrawals in the majority of cases (this is
not guaranteed - individuals can be so different, one from the other,
that no drug can be guaranteed in its effects. Heroin can provide
peace or abject terror.  The latter group tend not to get addicted, so
you don't hear much about them).  This liberation is not the effect,
though - this is a starting point, a chance to go forward into a new
lifestyle.  To expect it to provide
 an improved  minor variant of your
old lifestyle is misguided in the extreme. Nor-ibogaine appears to
remain in the body from 3 to 12 months and provides a diminishing
protection during that period.  It also magnifies the effect of other
neuroactive drugs so you may be causing additional harm if you go back
to using other drugs after an ibo flood.  The drug provides a window
of opportunity.  The benefit depends on what you do with this
opportunity.  The ibogaine dossier and other online links provide
heaps of useful information.  Howards Lotsof and his cronies provided
immensely useful information that still remains the most reliable
information.  There is also a vast amount of medical testing that can
be accessed online.  User forums must be read with great caution.
Good luck.

On 08/01/2012, Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Hadin,
>
> You have been on the Met a very long time and you can expect Severe
> depression and weakness for months after you kick.  Ibo will work for a
> while but you should have boosters.  Just thought I would mention it to ya
> for you are not the only one.  Also you will have minor but annoying body
> aches like withdrawal and it seems to last for ever.
>
> Also, Ibogaine does not always work the first time.  Should you fall back
> into using do the Ibo Experience over again.  You have been at it a long
> time my friend and it is going to take a Very long time to get straight.
> You have a long hard fight ahead of you and I wish you the best.  Also, Ibo
> can not do it alone specialty with a 25 year old Met habit.  Learn all ya
> can on this forum and you
 will have to change you buds for you can not hang
> with users for you will surely fail.  Hey, why am I telling you this?  You
> have been at it 25 years you know this, excuse me.  Just do the best you
> can.
>
> Best of luck,
>
>   - JIM
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> wow.. that came out wrong.   Really, I meant to put across that I have me
>> as proof.  Not saying that I walk away and didn't have to pay the price
>> for
>> 35yrs of use.  I had to work hard on my energy level,  get involved in new
>> interest and really build an identity that didn't involved doing dope all
>> day.
>> I know I got the reset because I walked away without the physical
 need.
>> My head was at rest when I allowed it.  It was very  uncomfortable in the
>> beginning.  At first I felt like I was still maintaining my habit but just
>> didn't have to take the drug.  As time passed I became more comfortable
>> with day to day living without the dope but I also so just how immature
>> and
>> behind I was as far as growing up.  It became clear that I needed to put
>> more effort in my new life mainly because I had some much more time to do
>> it.  Without dope I couldn't  just exsist anymore going to work
>> maintaining
>> so I don't get sick then coming home and do more till I nodded out.
>> Needed
>> a new identiy to be happy.  Ibogaine opens doors and gave me the choice...
>> thats a pretty good reset.
>>
>>   *From:* Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2012 8:09 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Ibogaine List
>>
>>   because I am clean today.  dont care about this question anymore
>> really.  I know I came thru the experience not needing dope anymore.
>>
>>   *From:* Aiden Jacobs <aiden.panos at gmail.com>
>> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2012 4:12 PM
>> *Subject:* [Ibogaine] Dear Ibogaine List
>>
>> Dear
 Ibogaine List,
>>
>> Happy new year to all. I am new to the list, and plan on doing Ibogaine
>> shortly. I am in a situation which requires me to be on opiate
>> painkillers.
>> While researching the concept of tolerance to painkiller medications, I
>> came across an article on Mindvox which describes how Ibogaine works
>> terrific to reduce tolerance down to almost the starting point. I did a
>> lot
>> of digging and exploring after that, and it seems as if everyone (ranging
>> from professionals to providers to "patients") all agree that Ibogaine
>> does
>> work to "reset" tolerance (this was discussed in a recent post on this
>> Ibogaine forum).
>>
>> What I would like to ask is -- how do we know that Ibogaine resets
>> tolerance? If a person does Ibogaine and a month later they take the
>> medicine
 again, their tolerance would be back way down anyhow.
>>
>> The only way to know that it resets tolerance is to have someone tolerant
>> to opiates do the Ibogaine, and within a few days take the opiate
>> medication. Then we would know if the tolerance is reset.
>>
>> So I would love to hear back as to "how" and "why" it became so well
>> accepted and agreed upon by everyone in the Ibogaine community that it
>> does
>> reset tolerance.
>>
>> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Warm wishes,
>>
>> Aiden
>>
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>>
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>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>>
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 09:55:41 -0500 (EST)
From: DC from AZ <dcollier9 at q.com>
To: Ibo List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] David Bowie Turns 65
Message-ID:
    <1125961947.404045.1326120941828.JavaMail.root at md39.quartz.synacor.com>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



1962?68: Bowie did his foundational work with early bands the Konrads to the Riot Squad. 

1969?73: Was his demonstrative work in psychedelic folk to glam rock that included Space Oddity, Hunky Dory and the ever classic fable that became Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. 

1974?76: Were the Diamond Dog years of
 soul, funk and the Thin White Duke. His work during this period is some of his crowning achievements. The Man Who Fell to Earth gains film acclaim for his acting career. 

1976?79: With albums like Low in the Berlin era, Bowie became the eclectic artist most fans know him for. Heroes was an important single during this era also. 

1980?89: Bowie propels from superstar to mega star with albums like Tonight, Scary Monsters and Let's Dance. The Title track for Let's Dance reaches number one. He appears in the Jim Henson film Labyrinth also. 

1989?91: Tin Machine and Bowie take a dynamically different approach to his work. Although a dream team approach for a band, the lineup did not work as the democracy that Bowie hoped for, but the music is very cool. 

1992?99: The electronica approach for this era is complimented by the collaboration of Bowie and Trent Reznor. Nine Inch Nails becomes a touring partner for this period also. I'm
 Afriad of Americans is a classic statement of the new direction his music has taken. 

1999?present: The internet, remixing and collaborations with the new social media, are the hardware of the neoclassicist Bowie movement of today. Bowie achieves artistic awards and merits long deserved from his peer community. Bowie plays Nikola Tesla in the film The Prestige. 

Blessings on this birthday number 65. 

Your Arizona fans love you as much today as ever. 

In the words of biographer Thomas Forget , "Because he has succeeded in so many different styles of music, it is almost impossible to find a popular artist today that has not been influenced by David Bowie." 

David Bowie has been many characters on stage, in film and on the airwaves. He has been his own prophetic bard, a traveling minstrel always telling tales of his own life in his songs. As Ziggy once said so profoundly, " When the kids had killed the man, they had to
 break up the band ." 

Happy Birthday to Major Tom. 

-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Donzo 
News: http://www.prourladyofemmitsburg.org/latestnews.html 
"After you see the two suns, there is only a short time before you will see a tremendous change in weather" 
"in 203 BC, ?two suns? were seen in the sky. There were 
intervals of daylight during the night. Another appearance of ?two suns? was in 
185 AD. Chinese astronomers recorded the appearance of a bright star like a 
sun in the sky and observed that it took about eight months to fade from the sky. 
Yet another such phenomenon was observed on July 4, 1054 AD. It remained 
visible in daylight for 23 days and was visible in the night sky for 653 days. It 
eventually faded from view on April 17,1056 AD. This explosion appeared in
 the 
constellation of Taurus" 
----------------------- 
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace." 1 John 5:18 God's protection 
______________________________________________________________ 


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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 13:57:39 -0500
From: Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts
 re
    how itfeels post flood
Message-ID:
    <CAEoZqz0yAtPry6UjGsGSiMpFeuHzWT3PA85Ejc39LrFE2x0mwA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hello Andrew,

Seems like you do not have much trust in the drug companies.  Just a day or
two ago I looked up Methadone and oh man you got to read it to believe it.
It says an addict uses heroin then switches over to Methadone where they
can get a correct dose of quality pharmaceutical medicine.  Then when
stable they can detox at the rate of 5 to 10mg per week.  Oh come on 5 to
10 mg per week - no way.

Everyone who tried Methadone has said it is harder to quit than most
anything except sub.  It was much like a
 infomercial only you read it.  Now
here is the part where ya got to pay attention:  It says it may be a two or
three year program.  OK if you can detox at 5 mg a week and you start with
less than 100mg you should be off in a year, Right?? That's the math.
Seems like it has not been updated since 1969 or so.

Best,

  - JIM

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:08 PM, David Ray <trees.and.rain at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks all, Faith in particular.  I took a test dose of 250mg TA a few
> weeks back as I was concerned about going overseas and finding that I
> couldn't tolerate Ibo, an allergic reaction or vomitted it up, in
> which case I would have been in real trouble.  I assumed that this
> dose was high enough to be a good test, but low enough to not have any
> significant
 effect. However, after a few hours, it did begin to have
> an effect.  A little like mushrooms or LSD, but it felt almost like an
> animal presence inside me.  The next day still getting a bit of
> peripheral visual distortion.  Funny dreams for a few days.  And for a
> few hours there was the vaguely insightful dreaming I've read about.
> But for the week that followed I could still feel its presence inside
> me, which is why I asked the question.  I like to be prepared.  This
> tells me that I cannot be prepared, but obviously what I want is
> something pretty dramatic, so I guess I just need to be ready to hold
> on for the ride.  Lots of very helpful information.  Thanks again.
> David
>
> On 08/01/2012, Andrew <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi David,I'm in Oz too and coming off long-term,high-dose Benzo's atm and
> > lowering my Alc intake too which are both minimal now.
> > I ramped the intake and strength(as I home-brew) down slowly as I have
> the
> > Benzo's as I was on 6mg Xan a day and drinking to blackout stages...I'm
> > lucky to have survived.Alcohol goes really well with Xanax....in the
> > beginning ;)
> >
> > I too am looking at resetting soon,as my addiction was
> "Accidental"...well
> > basically I was prescribed Xanax and went through the stages of rapid
> > dependence and tolerance to quite a high dose before I instigated the
> taper
> > withdrawal over to Valium and I'm nearly at the sticky end after 4 years
> > detoxing....yes it's a long time I know,but everyone is different in this
> > respect.I want full functionality back
 and there have been many setbacks
> > along this path.I take it only now to abate symptoms as I reduce,not
> because
> > I get high.It's all pain.
> >
> > I just read the responses as well as your post and I can say that T.Iboga
> > plants are available as well as seeds from www.herbalistics.com.au , as
> is
> > Kanna.
> > Darren is a top bloke and will look after you and he told me recently he
> has
> > seedlings growing now, as you will see there is none in stock atm. I was
> a
> > member of an ethnobotany forum for many years and am still a member of
> > another here in Aus.
> > I wouldn't recommend the corroboree for reasons I won't go into.
> > OK BIG ego problems,thus my absence and Darrens ;)
> > Anyway I deter,Sceletium works quite well as I have used it in the past
> > mainly as a snuff
 preparation but I have used it sublingually too.
> > I found snuff was easier to guage as the dose is felt rapidly and you get
> > used to eyeing up how much to use.It's also smokeable and a crushed
> > match-head is roughly a dose.The same for snuff.
> > It is however something that you would use infrequently,it seems to work
> > better that way.
> > The plants are readily available too and the process is traditionally
> > fermentation in a leather pouch.
> > Sub-threshold doses of a certain fungus have been reported to be of use
> too.
> > Also maybe look into Hemia Salcifolia as it has some desirable properties
> > for pain and a non-benzo non-addictive alternative in it's action.
> > The immature seed heads are hand picked and dried in a warm shady
> > position.Then they can be crushed and smoked or vapourised.
> > I have used
 all these and lotus stamens to help me through
> > pain,cramps,spasms etc.
> > At one point I employed Mandrake,but you really need to know how to
> prepare
> > it and how much to use....I was in extreme withdrawal pain and could not
> > sleep.
> > These days I use binaural beats(528Hz is good),self-hypnosis and
> meditation
> > and I'm not depressed.
> > Points to note with Sceletium and Prozac are NOT to mix them as you
> probably
> > know and also to understand what the Prozac has actually done to you're
> > brain.
> > Prozac contains mostly Sodium Fluoride which calcifies the Pineal Gland
> and
> > also causes Fluorosis, so look those up and learn about the Pineal's
> > importance in your mental health and sleep.
> > Personally I'd steer clear of Pharma's,there are other ways,plus Prozac
> has
>
 > a bad rep for suicidality.Congrats on getting off them!
> > Melatonin works great for some to reset the sleep phases,though those
> would
> > already be interfered with by the other drugs in your system.
> > Still you could use it and gauge your reaction(usually the 2nd night is
> when
> > the reset happens).
> > Pure Melatonin is what you want, somewhere around the 2mg mark, not the
> > stuff from the chemist as it is like a tissue salt and not active enough.
> > If the dose is too high you will feel drowsy and off balance for a few
> hours
> > in the morning.Once again,use intermittently.
> > Bear in mind that it is now illegal under the stupid analogues clause as
> is
> > GABA, though you can get it easily enough.
> > Sunlight(vitamin D3 synthesis) has proven to have more efficacy than
> > Prozac.Exposure to the
 back of the knees seems to be the best.
> > Don't believe the melanoma hype,studies show more incidences in those who
> > sit under fluorescent lights doing desk work than tradesman, which I was
> for
> > 15 years installing Airconditioners in the blistering summer heat on
> > roof-tops.Funny enough, it's Desk-Jockey's that seem to have a higher
> > incidence of depression as well.
> > I also had my time with anti-depressants many years ago,though luckily
> > briefly, as my system reacted to them all quite rapidly thank God.
> > Check out the CCHR's website and see for yourself how we have been
> grossly
> > mislead by these dollars for Doc's BS.
> > They are releasing another video soon exposing the DSM!
> > My heart goes out to all who have been given Pharma's that are worse than
> > pure H as I've watched a lot of Doco's on the
 subject and know exactly
> why
> > they prescribe it....it's inhumane IMHO.
> > For maintaining and assessing your mental-health,there are really good
> sites
> > like moodgym for C.B.T. so go on the hunt for those sites.They are really
> > good and Bronwyn Fox has some excellent CD's and media available
> especially
> > on mindful-meditation.
> > There is no science behind mood altering pharmaceuticals and most if not
> all
> > do damage to the receptor sites.IMO GP's handing these out is ludicrous
> but
> > they get a kickback,so...yeah.
> > Also it's no surprise that the push for expanding Methadone sales came
> from
> > the then Prime Minister's "plight".IMHO it was a believable brainwashing
> > exercise to make them look good,for the public to embrace it out of
> > sympathy.
> >
 Problem,reaction,solution...this is how Governments work.
> > All here would know pure H is not dangerous at the correct dosage,it
> used to
> > be available at the chemist and was in Coca Cola.
> > There is most probably absolutely nothing wrong with your brain,just
> you're
> > thoughts.This is where CBT, especially mindful-meditation and exercise
> come
> > in.
> > We are built to repair ourselves.We have the ingredients but have been
> > talked out of it with fake labels/conditions/crap food and thus the
> > proliferation of Pharmaceuticals purely for bloody money!
> > My PC has been out of action for quite a while now so I have only just
> > opened up my inbox and am trying to catch up....still can't believe Obama
> > signed away American's Civil Liberties and we have US troops coming to
> > settle in Darwin o,O!
>
 > Chevron's been put back into place,but it looks like they are going to
> try
> > to drag this out again,so support Amazon Watch guys....if ever we needed
> > Shaman presence and maintain the diversity of the plants and culture in
> the
> > world it is now.
> > Sorry for the pretty random post, but I missed a dose today,been offline
> and
> > am really starting to feel like shit,so a lot is coming out.
> > It's getting really hard to concentrate now and I'm going through bad
> > inter-dose withdrawals as I type which will pan out over the next few
> > weeks,so I hope to keep track and wish you well mate.
> > You might just find someone in Oz too,just keep posting and feel free to
> > keep in touch as I will be looking for treatment in the very near future
> > too.
> >
> > Cheers for now and take care all.
>
 >
> > Andrew...
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "David Ray" <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:31 PM
> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
> > itfeels post flood
> >
> >> Hi Folks,
> >>
> >> Apologies in advance for the length of this question, but I need to
> >> give considerable background to get to what I want to ask about. Also
> >> a bit of a picture of Australia might help as I?m sure there are major
> >> differences between Oz and the USA.  Culturally
 Oz has some closer
> >> connections to UK and Europe. Cultural difference and the differences
> >> in the use and availability of different drugs make a difference to
> >> how the addiction profile is dealt with.  For instance, we have a
> >> pretty great health care system although it has the stresses and
> >> delays you might expect from ?rational? economic approaches to
> >> management.  I can go to a doctor free of charge, or with a small
> >> co-payment and the government pays most or all of the fee.  Blood
> >> testing is free and a detailed heart analysis (echo-cardiogram) cost
> >> about $220 but I get back about 80% from the government health agency.
> >> The status of ibogaine in australia is the same as in the USA ?
> >> banned. If I had recently ordered 2 grams of TA from ibogaworld, for
>
 >> example, the government would have classified that at a level with the
> >> importation of 2 grams of pure heroin and I would have been liable for
> >> a jail sentence of months or years.  Had ibogaworld posted it labelled
> >> as some innocuous herb that it vaguely resembled, I might have
> >> received it safely, but this is purely hypothetical of course.
> >> Reliable Canadian sources have, quite rightly, refused to post
> >> ibogaine to me here in australia in the past because of its legal
> >> status.  I have read about ibogaine for more than a decade and have
> >> always thought that I would use it at some stage when it became viable
> >> in Australia, when the difficulties of methadone became unbearable.  I
> >> have learned that there have been some treatments in Australia, in
> >> Queensland,
 the tropical north.  I think that these were done by some
> >> people I?ve since contacted who are now in the UK. I?ve tried to
> >> contact people listed as ibo providers in the past but have never got
> >> a reply so I think they came and went quite quickly and were gone,
> >> quit, jailed or whatever before I learned of them. I suspect that
> >> there may be other underground ibo groups, probably in north
> >> queensland, where the product could be successfully grown, but this is
> >> only a guess.  Seeds can be legally purchased.  It is just the refined
> >> product that is highly illegal to import. I?ve never been in a
> >> financial situation where I could think of travelling to Holland or
> >> Mexico to get a treatment.  Methadone maintenace treatment was vastly
> >> expanded in the late 80s after
 a drug conference in 1986 triggered by
> >> the addiction of the then prime minister?s daughter.  At that time
> >> there were about 200 people on methadone maintenance in Victoria, the
> >> state where I live. About a quarter of the australian population live
> >> in this state ? about 5 million people out of 20+ million.  Within a
> >> couple of years about 3000 people were on methadone.  Now there are
> >> tens of thousands.  In the last decade subutex has become popular and
> >> there are thousands also on that.  Many authorities prefer it because
> >> of its agonist/antagonist nature, despite the factor that methadone?s
> >> overall success rate is significantly higher.  I went from methadone
> >> to subutex for a couple of months. I hate the stuff and was overjoyed
> >> to return to
 methadone, but some people prefer it.  Some hate
> >> methadone.  I think one of the problems of methadone is that it is
> >> more subtle in effect, but also goes very poorly with other
> >> substances.  Alcohol can cause nasty side effects combined with
> >> methadone, like death by suffocation in your sleep. The diuretic
> >> effect of alcohol also tends to flush the methadone from your system,
> >> further screwing the effect.  Combined with benzos it tends to send
> >> you into zombieland.  As I use it by itself it works well for me.  Or
> >> has worked reasonably well, despite its difficulties.
> >>
> >>
> >> I?ve been on methadone for 25 years roughly, with a couple of breaks
> >> of a month or two ? firstly a return to heroin about 20 years back,
> >> then subutex
 about 3 years back..  I don?t smoke, or drink any more,
> >> although the idea that I might give up drinking would have been
> >> unimaginable to me until I stabilised on methadone and gradually gave
> >> up drinking.  I have hep C which I most likely got about 35 years ago.
> >> Around 95% of Aus junkies in my age group have hep C, most of them
> >> got in when it was unknown and sharing syringes was common.  Many of
> >> my friends who kept drinking are now dead from cirrhosis and related
> >> liver problems.  I?ve always hated benzos for the way they cloud the
> >> mind, although I?ve used them for short periods a few times.  When
> >> methadone maintenance initially became available I was offered one of
> >> ten places on an early trial program.  I turned it down as you?d have
> >> to agree
 to stay on methadone for 4 years (we were all long term
> >> multiple relapse junkies who were offered places.)  No way I?d still
> >> be on methadone for four years, I thought.  6 months later, for legal
> >> reasons (conditional good behaviour bond that enabled me to avoid a 6
> >> month jail sentence on appeal) I was under the supervision of a
> >> government treatment agency and got on methadone.  Over the years I?ve
> >> gone up and down but, apart from the couple of months noted above,
> >> have been on methadone since then.  The only other drug I?ve taken is
> >> prozac, then effexor, then back to prozac.  Lifelong depression is one
> >> of the root excuses for the H addiction.  H is a very good
> >> anti-depressant.  It is also one of the few anti-depressants that I
> >> can
 tolerate, as it doesn?t muddy the brain and make me
> >> non-functional. Until prozac came along I could never tolerate any of
> >> the antidepressants that were prescribed for me.  Too muddy, too
> >> drowsy, too hangovery.  Now I have tapered off prozac.  While on
> >> methadone I have done an arts degree (practically worthless, but I met
> >> some good people and learned a few things).  I have also worked
> >> fulltime for many years.  Just jobs that meant nothing but provided
> >> income.  About 8 years ago hep C became very debilitating and I gave
> >> up full time work when redundancy became available, after having to
> >> take extended leave, most of it unpaid towards the end.  That?s the
> >> time that I decided to move to the country/coast, live cheaply in a
> >> cabin and try to
 get some decent writing done.  In the nineties I
> >> published a number of short stories and poems in little lit mags but
> >> it?s mainly been something for myself.  In the last few years the
> >> poems and stories I?ve been writing have seemed right to me for the
> >> first time.  I?ve always muddled through my own simple idiot tunes on
> >> the guitar, and in the last few years I?ve had poems turn into songs
> >> (when I was younger attempts at public performance were only possible
> >> when blind drunk and they still terrified me ? didn?t go well).    The
> >> reason I?m giving this biographical crapolla is to explain that the
> >> writing is what is important.  Methadone has been like a protective
> >> barrier so that I can be very emotionally open, thus enabling the
> >> writing, while
 being protected from the chaos of the modern world (the
> >> forest is also a major protection).  As the years go on I find that
> >> the methadone becomes more intrusive and begins to make clarity of
> >> mind, and hence writing, to be harder.  Likewise the side effects of
> >> the prozac seemed to become stronger.  I?ve found that reducing
> >> methadone, even slowly tends to lead to major depression and lethargy,
> >> meaning I can?t write.  So Ibogaine becomes much more desirable, to
> >> the point that I will be doing a flood when the arrangements can be
> >> made.  Hopefully in New Zealand, where it has been legal on
> >> prescription for about 16 months now.  I have a very good person in
> >> New Zealand who is in the process of lining up a doctor who can be
> >> made aware of the
 benefits of ibogaine.  I have done all the necessary
> >> testing under the standard protocal and found that, although my liver
> >> is compromised, it has enzyme level within the acceptable range.  My
> >> doctor here will send the test data and other health information to
> >> the doctor in New Zealand, who will hopefully be willing to prescribe
> >> the methadone to be administered by my NZ provider.  My doctor is on
> >> holiday until the middle of january, at which point things will
> >> hopefully move forward so that I can do a flood.  If this best option,
> >> near to home, falls through, fortunately there are back up options, (I
> >> have canadian citizenship, which might assist an option there, also
> >> there is Mexico, possibly Holland/Costa Rica as there is a provider
> >> who works in poth
 of these places) but I would really like to do it in
> >> NZ as the closeness of NZ and Oz may help to make the treatment
> >> available in Australia. Ever since I was told of the provider in NZ
> >> this has seemed lie the optimum option.  After many years I know many
> >> of the addiction experts here in Oz and will do what I can to push for
> >> treatment opening up here in the future, hopefully as some form of
> >> government approved trials.
> >>
> >> Okay, after all this crap, is there actually a question??????  Yep ?
> >> there are problems associated with the after-treatment and there are a
> >> couple of questions I have associated with this.  As the objective is
> >> that I be able to go on with my writing, return to clarity of mind
> >> within the shortest possible time, the notion of
 using benzos or any
> >> other such intrusive symptomatic forms of relief is pretty pointless.
> >> I would be willing to go back onto a low dose of prozac for a limited
> >> period, but really I would like to know if there are very
> >> non-intrusive medications that might help me through this period.
> >> Melatonin for insomnia has been suggested.  I have not used this, but
> >> it is natural within the body.  If there are any herbal type things
> >> that might be helpful, this would be good.
> >>
> >> The other question ? noribogaine persists within the body for several
> >> months and is proposed as the active agent in enabling the long term
> >> behavioural changes needed to get out of on opiate lifestyle.  What is
> >> the nature of its effect within the body?  I believe it is subtle,
 but
> >> I wonder if anybody might try to describe how it feels to have this
> >> active substance within you.  It seems like it has some stimulant
> >> effects, but does it feel like you?ve had a couple of cups of coffee,
> >> or you feel more confident, or?.??????  I realise this is very
> >> difficult but I have read a huge number of people?s accounts and they
> >> seem to stop at the end of the active process after a few days.  Would
> >> anyone like to comment on the feeling of the months that follow a
> >> flood.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  I will learn myself in a
> >> couple of months but I?d love to know what other people have to say
> >> about this.  Sometimes I have read:  ?Harry seemed different after the
> >> flood.?  But they never say in what way.  Any
 thoughts????
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >>
> >> David
> >>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 21:39:39 -0500
From: Chris Mallin <cmallin20 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Medication
Message-ID:
   
 <CAPeJTGWjsH_ZfcK7RNZnPD5OP_=7uJqp3RKB8Qag3hxKt4KTQQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello All,

Good evening!

Quick question.

If someone is talking Lamictal (lamotrigine), but not for seizures or
bipolar but rather for an attention/cognitive issue, does he have to stop
talking the Lamictal before the Ibogaine treatment?

In this case, whenever he stops, he gets these side effects from stopping,
such as pins and needles, etc., which make it very uncomfortable. So would
he need to stop it weeks before the Ibogaine (I mean, will the Lamictal
hurt the Ibogaine treatment and make it less effective), or can he stay on
the Lamictal until the Ibogaine treatment (or maybe stop it just days or
only one week before)?

As always, thank you to all who
 are considerate enough to respond!

Chris
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 20:19:02 -0700
From: junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Medication
Message-ID:
    <CA+VSwK+mN2tRe59zhKa59A62tnyLd-RghDWw74=PYhgeok8L2Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

taper any anti depressants so you dont get those effects.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Chris Mallin <cmallin20 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Good evening!
>
> Quick question.
>
> If someone is talking Lamictal (lamotrigine), but not for seizures or
> bipolar but rather for an attention/cognitive issue, does he have to stop
> talking the Lamictal before the Ibogaine treatment?
>
> In this case, whenever he stops, he gets these side effects from stopping,
> such as pins and needles, etc., which make it very uncomfortable. So would
> he need to stop it weeks before the Ibogaine (I mean, will the Lamictal
> hurt the Ibogaine treatment and make
 it less effective), or can he stay on
> the Lamictal until the Ibogaine treatment (or maybe stop it just days or
> only one week before)?
>
> As always, thank you to all who are considerate enough to respond!
>
> Chris
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
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Message:
 6
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 13:30:08 +1100
From: "Andrew" <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re
    how    itfeels post flood
Message-ID: <BAY167-DS4815A7DC8EDE4E26BC5180FE990 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hello Jim.,

Yep ya got that damn straight 

According to the "Ashton Method" I use as a framework for coming off Benzo's, I should be clear and free as a bird well and truly by now!!!
Then again this method is supposedly "the pick" but is still
 way outdated and I don't believe there is a "One Size Fits All" solution to the life we have been given.BTW XANAX has been labeled "Worse than Heroin" and there is a book of the same name.
The road we travel is a personal journey specifically tailored for each of us in my belief (and many other's).
There is no right or wrong way,just the way.
I have watched Methadonia and High on Crack Street amongst many others, so I do understand the plight of those on Methadone.
My heart goes out to all who are fighting for their lives with this BS.
I also watched Detox or Die which is absolutely brilliant.
GenerationRx,Making a Killing and those Big Pharma doco's are excellent and absolutely true!
Bear in mind that I'm 41 now and was prescribed Xanax for "Panic Disorder" in 2003,so a lot of things have happened since then.Learning in 2007 that the drug I was on had been known to be extremely addictive after as little as 3 weeks use and would
 eventually reach a "cap" of therapeutic dose efficacy since to late 50's is what turned my sails!!!...I was like WTF!!!???...why does my GP keep putting the doses up when it aint gong to do JACK from here on?
I learned a lot fast and educated my GP,now he's a Benzo-Wise Doctor and very proud of my progress.We are really good mates now after all this and I have his full support which many don't have from their Doc's.Sometimes you just have to take control, as it is YOUR life in their hands.
Remind them of this,it's the first line in their Oath 

There are so many contributing factors to everyone's story that really,in essence,one must really learn to appreciate this fact before one can move forward....just think of the scene in The Matrix where Neo gets out of the car and what Trinity says.....

I do realise that Ibogaine is not usually used for Benzo's as it is for Opiates, but one thing we all have in common is that we do "know where
 that road goes" and we "have made a choice already".I'm extremely humbled and overjoyed to be part of MindVox as I know that here,no matter whether it's Cocaine,Speed,Heroin or Pharmaceuticals,we are all searching for ourselves again.
The ride I have chosen with this withdrawal has slowly unfolded on many levels and taught me through pain and determination a hell of a lot to put it mildly....if I had a dollar for every time a GP or so called specialist has said "It shouldn't take that long...I've seen people come off them quicker" LOL...I have met some of those that have and man, they are just in another mess,just not the one they were in.
I chose the road less travelled and will be far richer for the experience...an experience I will pay back to others in the same position.
It is my duty of care and also part of my wonderful story.

For myslef, like Aya,Tryptamines and Amanita showed me in pieces of a puzzle if you will, Ibo is part of
 my path to work out "why I made the choice" 
To put things in persective,as someone said: "Last time I checked,we all have an expiration date!".
I'll be damned if I don't nut this out before that comes around 

I don't expect Ibo to do anything more than what I put in,but it is on my path, as I am a warrior,teacher,student and a healer at heart. It will happen when the boat arrives and the boat always arrives on time 

The world we live in is supposed to be crazy,not us....this I see IS the true nature of things.
This is where the "Big Pharma,Big X-factor" comes in as I see it.
There are definitely Elite and they know only power,lust and greed.They also know the mechanics behind the human race.
We have Love,Compassion,the ability for Reason,Forgiveness and a sense of Unity.These "Types" have none of these attributes and so place us in useful positions(to them) with the aid of these addictive drugs.
If you were heartless and
 lazy,wouldn't you?
Some are to dumb us down to slow our natural progression,some to improve production like ants with a dozen beers after work to put us back again and some deemed illicit,yet reasonably tolerated,so we think we are getting away with it and need these drugs.So we take more and the seeking becomes the addiction.
Very clever design,but flawed by nature if analyzed in this light.
The very things they try to instill in some of us use fear based tactics as their only tool. 
This is why there is an arbitrary scale for punishable and allowable drug use.
Is it any wonder that right now the Military troops from Afghanistan are speaking out and don't want war?
Is it any wonder that Opium production which,when the US was working trade deals out for Oil,was nearly Zero as compared to post "False-Flag" 911 which are now up 75%?!....The US needs that Heroin!!
Not to mention the prescription drug side of things and the huge profits
 and pay-offs everyone gets for passing this crap down the line.
Yes it's all about money.

I would strongly recommend anyone who seeks the road of healing, to watch(even rewatch) The Matrix Trilogy and the Animatrix,then watch Kymatica,then "Philosophy and The Matrix".

Umm and please remember to help fight Chevron by donating whatever you can afford to help save the Amazon, via Amazonwatch.Every dollar counts,and they are counting on us as much as we have on them.

Thanks for the replies,comments and the chance to speak.

The catch-cry from our home-grown Aussie hip-hop dudes,Bliss and Esso goes out to you guys.... "Peace,Love and Unity" 

Take care my new friends, we will win.

Andrew...





From: Jim Hadey3 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:57 AM
To: The Ibogaine List 
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how itfeels post flood


Hello
 Andrew,

Seems like you do not have much trust in the drug companies.  Just a day or two ago I looked up Methadone and oh man you got to read it to believe it.  It says an addict uses heroin then switches over to Methadone where they can get a correct dose of quality pharmaceutical medicine.  Then when stable they can detox at the rate of 5 to 10mg per week.  Oh come on 5 to 10 mg per week - no way.

Everyone who tried Methadone has said it is harder to quit than most anything except sub.  It was much like a infomercial only you read it.  Now here is the part where ya got to pay attention:  It says it may be a two or three year program.  OK if you can detox at 5 mg a week and you start with less than 100mg you should be off in a year, Right?? That's the math.  Seems like it has not been updated since 1969 or so.

Best,

  - JIM 


On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:08 PM, David Ray
 <trees.and.rain at gmail.com> wrote:

  Thanks all, Faith in particular.  I took a test dose of 250mg TA a few
  weeks back as I was concerned about going overseas and finding that I
  couldn't tolerate Ibo, an allergic reaction or vomitted it up, in
  which case I would have been in real trouble.  I assumed that this
  dose was high enough to be a good test, but low enough to not have any
  significant effect. However, after a few hours, it did begin to have
  an effect.  A little like mushrooms or LSD, but it felt almost like an
  animal presence inside me.  The next day still getting a bit of
  peripheral visual distortion.  Funny dreams for a few days.  And for a
  few hours there was the vaguely insightful dreaming I've read about.
  But
 for the week that followed I could still feel its presence inside
  me, which is why I asked the question.  I like to be prepared.  This
  tells me that I cannot be prepared, but obviously what I want is
  something pretty dramatic, so I guess I just need to be ready to hold
  on for the ride.  Lots of very helpful information.  Thanks again.
  David


  On 08/01/2012, Andrew <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com> wrote:
  > Hi David,I'm in Oz too and coming off long-term,high-dose Benzo's atm and
  > lowering my Alc intake too which are both minimal now.
  > I ramped the intake and strength(as I home-brew) down slowly as I have the
  > Benzo's as I was on 6mg Xan a day and drinking to blackout stages...I'm
  > lucky to have survived.Alcohol goes
 really well with Xanax....in the
  > beginning ;)
  >
  > I too am looking at resetting soon,as my addiction was "Accidental"...well
  > basically I was prescribed Xanax and went through the stages of rapid
  > dependence and tolerance to quite a high dose before I instigated the taper
  > withdrawal over to Valium and I'm nearly at the sticky end after 4 years
  > detoxing....yes it's a long time I know,but everyone is different in this
  > respect.I want full functionality back and there have been many setbacks
  > along this path.I take it only now to abate symptoms as I reduce,not because
  > I get high.It's all pain.
  >
  > I just read the responses as well as your post and I can say that T.Iboga
  > plants are available as well as seeds from www.herbalistics.com.au , as is
  > Kanna.
 
 > Darren is a top bloke and will look after you and he told me recently he has
  > seedlings growing now, as you will see there is none in stock atm. I was a
  > member of an ethnobotany forum for many years and am still a member of
  > another here in Aus.
  > I wouldn't recommend the corroboree for reasons I won't go into.
  > OK BIG ego problems,thus my absence and Darrens ;)
  > Anyway I deter,Sceletium works quite well as I have used it in the past
  > mainly as a snuff preparation but I have used it sublingually too.
  > I found snuff was easier to guage as the dose is felt rapidly and you get
  > used to eyeing up how much to use.It's also smokeable and a crushed
  > match-head is roughly a dose.The same for snuff.
  > It is however something that you would use infrequently,it seems to work
  > better that
 way.
  > The plants are readily available too and the process is traditionally
  > fermentation in a leather pouch.
  > Sub-threshold doses of a certain fungus have been reported to be of use too.
  > Also maybe look into Hemia Salcifolia as it has some desirable properties
  > for pain and a non-benzo non-addictive alternative in it's action.
  > The immature seed heads are hand picked and dried in a warm shady
  > position.Then they can be crushed and smoked or vapourised.
  > I have used all these and lotus stamens to help me through
  > pain,cramps,spasms etc.
  > At one point I employed Mandrake,but you really need to know how to prepare
  > it and how much to use....I was in extreme withdrawal pain and could not
  > sleep.
  > These days I use binaural beats(528Hz is good),self-hypnosis and
 meditation
  > and I'm not depressed.
  > Points to note with Sceletium and Prozac are NOT to mix them as you probably
  > know and also to understand what the Prozac has actually done to you're
  > brain.
  > Prozac contains mostly Sodium Fluoride which calcifies the Pineal Gland and
  > also causes Fluorosis, so look those up and learn about the Pineal's
  > importance in your mental health and sleep.
  > Personally I'd steer clear of Pharma's,there are other ways,plus Prozac has
  > a bad rep for suicidality.Congrats on getting off them!
  > Melatonin works great for some to reset the sleep phases,though those would
  > already be interfered with by the other drugs in your system.
  > Still you could use it and gauge your reaction(usually the 2nd night is when
  > the reset happens).
  > Pure
 Melatonin is what you want, somewhere around the 2mg mark, not the
  > stuff from the chemist as it is like a tissue salt and not active enough.
  > If the dose is too high you will feel drowsy and off balance for a few hours
  > in the morning.Once again,use intermittently.
  > Bear in mind that it is now illegal under the stupid analogues clause as is
  > GABA, though you can get it easily enough.
  > Sunlight(vitamin D3 synthesis) has proven to have more efficacy than
  > Prozac.Exposure to the back of the knees seems to be the best.
  > Don't believe the melanoma hype,studies show more incidences in those who
  > sit under fluorescent lights doing desk work than tradesman, which I was for
  > 15 years installing Airconditioners in the blistering summer heat on
  > roof-tops.Funny enough, it's Desk-Jockey's that seem to have a
 higher
  > incidence of depression as well.
  > I also had my time with anti-depressants many years ago,though luckily
  > briefly, as my system reacted to them all quite rapidly thank God.
  > Check out the CCHR's website and see for yourself how we have been grossly
  > mislead by these dollars for Doc's BS.
  > They are releasing another video soon exposing the DSM!
  > My heart goes out to all who have been given Pharma's that are worse than
  > pure H as I've watched a lot of Doco's on the subject and know exactly why
  > they prescribe it....it's inhumane IMHO.
  > For maintaining and assessing your mental-health,there are really good sites
  > like moodgym for C.B.T. so go on the hunt for those sites.They are really
  > good and Bronwyn Fox has some excellent CD's and media available especially
  > on
 mindful-meditation.
  > There is no science behind mood altering pharmaceuticals and most if not all
  > do damage to the receptor sites.IMO GP's handing these out is ludicrous but
  > they get a kickback,so...yeah.
  > Also it's no surprise that the push for expanding Methadone sales came from
  > the then Prime Minister's "plight".IMHO it was a believable brainwashing
  > exercise to make them look good,for the public to embrace it out of
  > sympathy.
  > Problem,reaction,solution...this is how Governments work.
  > All here would know pure H is not dangerous at the correct dosage,it used to
  > be available at the chemist and was in Coca Cola.
  > There is most probably absolutely nothing wrong with your brain,just you're
  > thoughts.This is where CBT, especially mindful-meditation and exercise come
  >
 in.
  > We are built to repair ourselves.We have the ingredients but have been
  > talked out of it with fake labels/conditions/crap food and thus the
  > proliferation of Pharmaceuticals purely for bloody money!
  > My PC has been out of action for quite a while now so I have only just
  > opened up my inbox and am trying to catch up....still can't believe Obama
  > signed away American's Civil Liberties and we have US troops coming to
  > settle in Darwin o,O!
  > Chevron's been put back into place,but it looks like they are going to try
  > to drag this out again,so support Amazon Watch guys....if ever we needed
  > Shaman presence and maintain the diversity of the plants and culture in the
  > world it is now.
  > Sorry for the pretty random post, but I missed a dose today,been offline and
  > am really
 starting to feel like shit,so a lot is coming out.
  > It's getting really hard to concentrate now and I'm going through bad
  > inter-dose withdrawals as I type which will pan out over the next few
  > weeks,so I hope to keep track and wish you well mate.
  > You might just find someone in Oz too,just keep posting and feel free to
  > keep in touch as I will be looking for treatment in the very near future
  > too.
  >
  > Cheers for now and take care all.
  >
  > Andrew...
  >
  >
  >
  > --------------------------------------------------
  > From: "David Ray" <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
  > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:31 PM
  > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
  > Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
  > itfeels post flood
  >
  >> Hi Folks,
  >>
  >> Apologies in advance for the length of this question, but I need to
  >> give considerable background to get to what I want to ask about. Also
  >> a bit of a picture of Australia might help as I?m sure there are major
  >> differences between Oz and the USA.  Culturally Oz has some closer
  >> connections to UK and Europe. Cultural difference and the differences
  >> in the use and availability of different drugs make a difference to
  >> how the addiction profile is dealt with.  For instance, we have a
  >> pretty great health care system although
 it has the stresses and
  >> delays you might expect from ?rational? economic approaches to
  >> management.  I can go to a doctor free of charge, or with a small
  >> co-payment and the government pays most or all of the fee.  Blood
  >> testing is free and a detailed heart analysis (echo-cardiogram) cost
  >> about $220 but I get back about 80% from the government health agency.
  >> The status of ibogaine in australia is the same as in the USA ?
  >> banned. If I had recently ordered 2 grams of TA from ibogaworld, for
  >> example, the government would have classified that at a level with the
  >> importation of 2 grams of pure heroin and I would have been liable for
  >> a jail sentence of months or years.  Had ibogaworld posted it labelled
  >> as some innocuous herb that it vaguely
 resembled, I might have
  >> received it safely, but this is purely hypothetical of course.
  >> Reliable Canadian sources have, quite rightly, refused to post
  >> ibogaine to me here in australia in the past because of its legal
  >> status.  I have read about ibogaine for more than a decade and have
  >> always thought that I would use it at some stage when it became viable
  >> in Australia, when the difficulties of methadone became unbearable.  I
  >> have learned that there have been some treatments in Australia, in
  >> Queensland, the tropical north.  I think that these were done by some
  >> people I?ve since contacted who are now in the UK. I?ve tried to
  >> contact people listed as ibo providers in the past but have never got
  >> a reply so I think they came and went quite
 quickly and were gone,
  >> quit, jailed or whatever before I learned of them. I suspect that
  >> there may be other underground ibo groups, probably in north
  >> queensland, where the product could be successfully grown, but this is
  >> only a guess.  Seeds can be legally purchased.  It is just the refined
  >> product that is highly illegal to import. I?ve never been in a
  >> financial situation where I could think of travelling to Holland or
  >> Mexico to get a treatment.  Methadone maintenace treatment was vastly
  >> expanded in the late 80s after a drug conference in 1986 triggered by
  >> the addiction of the then prime minister?s daughter.  At that time
  >> there were about 200 people on methadone maintenance in Victoria, the
  >> state where I live. About a quarter of
 the australian population live
  >> in this state ? about 5 million people out of 20+ million.  Within a
  >> couple of years about 3000 people were on methadone.  Now there are
  >> tens of thousands.  In the last decade subutex has become popular and
  >> there are thousands also on that.  Many authorities prefer it because
  >> of its agonist/antagonist nature, despite the factor that methadone?s
  >> overall success rate is significantly higher.  I went from methadone
  >> to subutex for a couple of months. I hate the stuff and was overjoyed
  >> to return to methadone, but some people prefer it.  Some hate
  >> methadone.  I think one of the problems of methadone is that it is
  >> more subtle in effect, but also goes very poorly with other
  >> substances. 
 Alcohol can cause nasty side effects combined with
  >> methadone, like death by suffocation in your sleep. The diuretic
  >> effect of alcohol also tends to flush the methadone from your system,
  >> further screwing the effect.  Combined with benzos it tends to send
  >> you into zombieland.  As I use it by itself it works well for me.  Or
  >> has worked reasonably well, despite its difficulties.
  >>
  >>
  >> I?ve been on methadone for 25 years roughly, with a couple of breaks
  >> of a month or two ? firstly a return to heroin about 20 years back,
  >> then subutex about 3 years back..  I don?t smoke, or drink any more,
  >> although the idea that I might give up drinking would have been
  >> unimaginable to me until I stabilised on methadone and gradually
 gave
  >> up drinking.  I have hep C which I most likely got about 35 years ago.
  >> Around 95% of Aus junkies in my age group have hep C, most of them
  >> got in when it was unknown and sharing syringes was common.  Many of
  >> my friends who kept drinking are now dead from cirrhosis and related
  >> liver problems.  I?ve always hated benzos for the way they cloud the
  >> mind, although I?ve used them for short periods a few times.  When
  >> methadone maintenance initially became available I was offered one of
  >> ten places on an early trial program.  I turned it down as you?d have
  >> to agree to stay on methadone for 4 years (we were all long term
  >> multiple relapse junkies who were offered places.)  No way I?d still
  >> be on methadone for four years, I
 thought.  6 months later, for legal
  >> reasons (conditional good behaviour bond that enabled me to avoid a 6
  >> month jail sentence on appeal) I was under the supervision of a
  >> government treatment agency and got on methadone.  Over the years I?ve
  >> gone up and down but, apart from the couple of months noted above,
  >> have been on methadone since then.  The only other drug I?ve taken is
  >> prozac, then effexor, then back to prozac.  Lifelong depression is one
  >> of the root excuses for the H addiction.  H is a very good
  >> anti-depressant.  It is also one of the few anti-depressants that I
  >> can tolerate, as it doesn?t muddy the brain and make me
  >> non-functional. Until prozac came along I could never tolerate any of
  >> the antidepressants that
 were prescribed for me.  Too muddy, too
  >> drowsy, too hangovery.  Now I have tapered off prozac.  While on
  >> methadone I have done an arts degree (practically worthless, but I met
  >> some good people and learned a few things).  I have also worked
  >> fulltime for many years.  Just jobs that meant nothing but provided
  >> income.  About 8 years ago hep C became very debilitating and I gave
  >> up full time work when redundancy became available, after having to
  >> take extended leave, most of it unpaid towards the end.  That?s the
  >> time that I decided to move to the country/coast, live cheaply in a
  >> cabin and try to get some decent writing done.  In the nineties I
  >> published a number of short stories and poems in little lit mags but
  >>
 it?s mainly been something for myself.  In the last few years the
  >> poems and stories I?ve been writing have seemed right to me for the
  >> first time.  I?ve always muddled through my own simple idiot tunes on
  >> the guitar, and in the last few years I?ve had poems turn into songs
  >> (when I was younger attempts at public performance were only possible
  >> when blind drunk and they still terrified me ? didn?t go well).    The
  >> reason I?m giving this biographical crapolla is to explain that the
  >> writing is what is important.  Methadone has been like a protective
  >> barrier so that I can be very emotionally open, thus enabling the
  >> writing, while being protected from the chaos of the modern world (the
  >> forest is also a major protection).  As the years go on I
 find that
  >> the methadone becomes more intrusive and begins to make clarity of
  >> mind, and hence writing, to be harder.  Likewise the side effects of
  >> the prozac seemed to become stronger.  I?ve found that reducing
  >> methadone, even slowly tends to lead to major depression and lethargy,
  >> meaning I can?t write.  So Ibogaine becomes much more desirable, to
  >> the point that I will be doing a flood when the arrangements can be
  >> made.  Hopefully in New Zealand, where it has been legal on
  >> prescription for about 16 months now.  I have a very good person in
  >> New Zealand who is in the process of lining up a doctor who can be
  >> made aware of the benefits of ibogaine.  I have done all the necessary
  >> testing under the standard protocal and found
 that, although my liver
  >> is compromised, it has enzyme level within the acceptable range.  My
  >> doctor here will send the test data and other health information to
  >> the doctor in New Zealand, who will hopefully be willing to prescribe
  >> the methadone to be administered by my NZ provider.  My doctor is on
  >> holiday until the middle of january, at which point things will
  >> hopefully move forward so that I can do a flood.  If this best option,
  >> near to home, falls through, fortunately there are back up options, (I
  >> have canadian citizenship, which might assist an option there, also
  >> there is Mexico, possibly Holland/Costa Rica as there is a provider
  >> who works in poth of these places) but I would really like to do it in
  >> NZ as the closeness of NZ and
 Oz may help to make the treatment
  >> available in Australia. Ever since I was told of the provider in NZ
  >> this has seemed lie the optimum option.  After many years I know many
  >> of the addiction experts here in Oz and will do what I can to push for
  >> treatment opening up here in the future, hopefully as some form of
  >> government approved trials.
  >>
  >> Okay, after all this crap, is there actually a question??????  Yep ?
  >> there are problems associated with the after-treatment and there are a
  >> couple of questions I have associated with this.  As the objective is
  >> that I be able to go on with my writing, return to clarity of mind
  >> within the shortest possible time, the notion of using benzos or any
  >> other such intrusive symptomatic forms
 of relief is pretty pointless.
  >> I would be willing to go back onto a low dose of prozac for a limited
  >> period, but really I would like to know if there are very
  >> non-intrusive medications that might help me through this period.
  >> Melatonin for insomnia has been suggested.  I have not used this, but
  >> it is natural within the body.  If there are any herbal type things
  >> that might be helpful, this would be good.
  >>
  >> The other question ? noribogaine persists within the body for several
  >> months and is proposed as the active agent in enabling the long term
  >> behavioural changes needed to get out of on opiate lifestyle.  What is
  >> the nature of its effect within the body?  I believe it is subtle, but
  >> I wonder if anybody might try to
 describe how it feels to have this
  >> active substance within you.  It seems like it has some stimulant
  >> effects, but does it feel like you?ve had a couple of cups of coffee,
  >> or you feel more confident, or?.??????  I realise this is very
  >> difficult but I have read a huge number of people?s accounts and they
  >> seem to stop at the end of the active process after a few days.  Would
  >> anyone like to comment on the feeling of the months that follow a
  >> flood.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  I will learn myself in a
  >> couple of months but I?d love to know what other people have to say
  >> about this.  Sometimes I have read:  ?Harry seemed different after the
  >> flood.?  But they never say in what way.  Any thoughts????
 
 >>
  >> Thanks in advance,
  >>
  >> David
  >>
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 20:26:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Eboka Man <ebokaman at ymail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Ibogaine List
Message-ID:
    <1326169610.61434.YahooMailNeo at web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I did opiates a few days after an ibogaine flood, and it not only took less to feel it, but it was also not pleasant, like opiates used to be.? It could have been because the iboga alkaloids also potentiate opioids, but I had detoxed without iboga before and remained clean for as many as 3 weeks, and it still took me pretty much my normal dose to get where I needed to when I relapsed.? 


I was
 doing 3-5 bags to get well, and after a detox without iboga, I remained clean for 3 weeks.? After 3 weeks of being pretty miserable, I did 3 bags, and it made me feel better and I got a bit of a buzz.? After doing an iboga detox, a few days later, I tried heroin, and because I was told it would "reset" my tolerance, I was cautious, and did one bag.? It felt as if I had done my normal 3-5 bags, only not as pleasant.? I would have gotten really sick, had I used my normal 3-5 bags.? I am not sure if this is the "proof" you are asking for, but that's how it worked for me.

There is also a PDF in which they documented what is called dirty maintenance, where people used iboga with their pain meds, so they could reduce their tolerance to their meds, so that they were more effective.? The PDF is here: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine2.pdf? Scroll down to page 23, where it says, "Dirty Maintenance" for actual documented details.

Hope this helps!



________________________________
From: Aiden Jacobs <aiden.panos at gmail.com>
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 1:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dear Ibogaine List


Dear Ibogaine List,

Happy new year to all. I am new to the list, and plan on doing Ibogaine shortly. I am in a situation which requires me to be on opiate painkillers. While researching the concept of tolerance to painkiller medications, I came across an article on Mindvox which describes how Ibogaine works terrific to reduce tolerance down to almost the starting point. I did a lot of digging and exploring after that, and it seems as if everyone (ranging from
 professionals to providers to "patients") all agree that Ibogaine does work to "reset" tolerance (this was discussed in a recent post on this Ibogaine forum).

What I would like to ask is -- how do we know that Ibogaine resets tolerance? If a person does Ibogaine and a month later they take the medicine again, their tolerance would be back way down anyhow. 

The only way to know that it resets tolerance is to have someone tolerant to opiates do the Ibogaine, and within a few days take the opiate medication. Then we would know if the tolerance is reset.

So I would love to hear back as to "how" and "why" it became so well accepted and agreed upon by everyone in the Ibogaine community that it does reset tolerance.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Warm wishes,

Aiden


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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 05:12:07 -0500
From: sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Medication
Message-ID: <384E25AF-0C3A-4E7C-BA2E-6FD28E21E259 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A slower wean should help ... I would not have it in the system.

Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.

On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:19 PM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:

> taper any anti depressants so you dont get those effects.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Chris Mallin <cmallin20 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> Good evening! 
> 
> Quick question. 
> 
> If someone is talking Lamictal (lamotrigine), but not for seizures or bipolar but rather for an attention/cognitive issue, does he have to stop talking the
 Lamictal before the Ibogaine treatment? 
> 
> In this case, whenever he stops, he gets these side effects from stopping, such as pins and needles, etc., which make it very uncomfortable. So would he need to stop it weeks before the Ibogaine (I mean, will the Lamictal hurt the Ibogaine treatment and make it less effective), or can he stay on the Lamictal until the Ibogaine treatment (or maybe stop it just days or only one week before)?
> 
> As always, thank you to all who are considerate enough to respond!
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:09:03 -0700
From: Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
 Medication
Message-ID: <4F0C548F.2000402 at mtciep.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

No kidding, sister, any remanent of an anti-convulsant with Ibo would be 
a concern, I would imagine.

___________________
Edward
edwardw at mtciep.com





On 1/10/2012 3:12 AM, sister wrote:
> A slower wean should help ... I would not have it in the system.
>
> Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.
>
> On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:19 PM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:junkboy64 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> taper any anti depressants so you dont get those effects.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Chris Mallin <cmallin20 at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:cmallin20 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hello All,
>>
>>     Good evening!
>>
>>     Quick question.
>>
>>     If someone is talking Lamictal (lamotrigine), but not for
>>     seizures or bipolar but rather for an attention/cognitive issue,
>>     does he have to stop talking the Lamictal before the Ibogaine
>>     treatment?
>>
>>     In this case, whenever he stops, he gets these side effects
 from
>>     stopping, such as pins and needles, etc., which make it very
>>     uncomfortable. So would he need to stop it weeks before the
>>     Ibogaine (I mean, will the Lamictal hurt the Ibogaine treatment
>>     and make it less effective), or can he stay on the Lamictal until
>>     the Ibogaine treatment (or maybe stop it just days or only one
>>     week before)?
>>
>>     As always, thank you to all who are considerate enough to respond!
>>
>>     Chris
>>
>>
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>>
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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:07:51 +1100
From: David Ray <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re
    how itfeels post flood
Message-ID:
    <CAD_M9k0otoQ8L2zbQXWoD-F+yakppexNZbJpPw5_9m31ZL0rjg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

As I started this post I think I should make something about my point
of view clear.  I used a whole range of drugs for a long time.
Hallucinogens like LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, gave me as certain
amount of knowledge.  But they distort processes of the mind, they
don't show god to you.  I ended up using heroin because it
 was the
purest and cleanest painkiller.  It did not cause damage in the way
that alcohol does.  It does not close down consciousness as the benzos
do.  I went to prozac because it worked with very little in the way of
side effects.  However it is only good over the relatively short term.
Now I take only methadone.  It has served me well.  It has enabled me
to live my life without closing down consciousness.  That is why I
always found benzos utterly unbearable.  I assume that these drugs
effect people in different ways but at the same time I've found that
people who combine methadone with alcohol or benzos turn to zombies
and say methadone is to blame.  The opiates are better drugs than
opioids like methadone, but of the pharma opioids I find methadone
much cleaner than pethidine or palfium or any of the non-opiate
derived  others.  Likewise I find methadone
 cleaner than the codeine
variants that currently have 1.4 million people addicted in the USA.
The notion of getting off methadone and using a bit of valium to keep
me cool is the same as getting off beer onto methylated spirits.  So
that's where this post comes from.  I'm concerned about having
noribogaine in my system for 6 months although the risk benefit
analysis tells me it's worthwhile.  So I don't regard methadone as a
horrible evil.  It is better and cleaner than suboxone which I tried
for a couple of months.  Methadone is one of the best tools that a
junkie can find to get off the heroin cycle of crime and misery.   It
is the crime and misery that is the problem, not the heroin.  Heroin
was legal in Australia until the 60s and was used for major pain, such
as childbirth.  Many doctors got addicted to it.  Doctors familiar
with this situation all said they would
 be much happier with a heroin
addicted doctor operating on them than an alcoholic.  An alcoholic is
impaired 100% of the time.  On a level dose a heroin addict is highly
functional.  Likewise there is no benzo dose that does not impair
consciousness.  People have a right to make that choice if they wish.
I feel that I might be able to write better if I get off methadone.
It is highly addictive and very hard to get off, but being on it at a
medium or lower dose without hypnotics like alcohol or benzos enables
a pretty alert and conscious lifestyle (for many people anyway).  One
of the things I really miss is that I can't do a vipassana meditation
course while on methadone, or it would be wasted anyhow.  I have no
interest at all in discovering god through hallucinogens.  I want
clarity of mind and that is why I'll be using ibogaine.  I feel the
experience would be valuable for
 other reasons but that is a side
benefit.  What I want is a reasonably painless (Although I expect
fairly terrifying and difficult) addiction interruption.  At the same
time I don't particularly want to use purified noribogaine which works
without the dream stage because I believe the dream stage is part of a
more substantive mental reset without which the addiction reset is
less likely to work.  However I may be completely wrong about this.  I
also dearly hope that ibogaine moves into the greater safety of the
conventional medical system, despite its monstrous problems.  That way
hundreds and thousands may benefit in safety, rather than a few in the
underground clinics, although these remain essential to the
continuance of research. I rely on two people for this attitude.
Howard Lotsof said that ibogaine should be used in a medical
environment if at all possible.  Deborah Mash, the
 most massively
experienced neurologist, says that ibogaine should "never ever" be
used outside of a hospital environment.  However I believe that people
should be free to take that risk if they wish.  But it is a risk.  If
one in 300 heroin users died I would have died many times over.
Anyhow, that's where I come from and the reason for this post.  It is
not a matter of escaping some terrible evil of methadone or heroin, it
is a mater of making best use of the options available so that I can
make the best life possible for myself.  Pharmas are massively corrupt
and misdirected because of profit drive.  They are not evil.  The
current treatment modalities for addiction are not horrific or evil,
but they do have major side effects.  It is incredibly difficult to
make informed choices about drugs and treatments when you're
depressed, scared, sick etc. but that's what I'm trying
 to do - become
informed about a drug so I know what I'm getting into.  Not battling
evil or seeking god in a drug.  A lot of people may find this
offensive.  That's the nature of the world.  I hope this drug will
become available to godseekers, fools like me, even funny looking
aliens if they need it.  But I'm about gaining knowledge, not fighting
evil people who manipulate me.  I've screwed up all on my own, without
the help of evil conspiracies dragging me down.

On 10/01/2012, Andrew <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Jim.,
>
> Yep ya got that damn straight
>
> According to the "Ashton Method" I use as a framework for coming off
> Benzo's, I should be clear and free as a bird well and truly by now!!!
> Then again this method is supposedly "the pick" but is
 still way outdated
> and I don't believe there is a "One Size Fits All" solution to the life we
> have been given.BTW XANAX has been labeled "Worse than Heroin" and there is
> a book of the same name.
> The road we travel is a personal journey specifically tailored for each of
> us in my belief (and many other's).
> There is no right or wrong way,just the way.
> I have watched Methadonia and High on Crack Street amongst many others, so I
> do understand the plight of those on Methadone.
> My heart goes out to all who are fighting for their lives with this BS.
> I also watched Detox or Die which is absolutely brilliant.
> GenerationRx,Making a Killing and those Big Pharma doco's are excellent and
> absolutely true!
> Bear in mind that I'm 41 now and was prescribed Xanax for "Panic Disorder"
> in 2003,so a lot of things have happened since then.Learning in 2007
 that
> the drug I was on had been known to be extremely addictive after as little
> as 3 weeks use and would eventually reach a "cap" of therapeutic dose
> efficacy since to late 50's is what turned my sails!!!...I was like
> WTF!!!???...why does my GP keep putting the doses up when it aint gong to do
> JACK from here on?
> I learned a lot fast and educated my GP,now he's a Benzo-Wise Doctor and
> very proud of my progress.We are really good mates now after all this and I
> have his full support which many don't have from their Doc's.Sometimes you
> just have to take control, as it is YOUR life in their hands.
> Remind them of this,it's the first line in their Oath
>
> There are so many contributing factors to everyone's story that really,in
> essence,one must really learn to appreciate this fact before one can move
> forward....just think of the scene in The Matrix
 where Neo gets out of the
> car and what Trinity says.....
>
> I do realise that Ibogaine is not usually used for Benzo's as it is for
> Opiates, but one thing we all have in common is that we do "know where that
> road goes" and we "have made a choice already".I'm extremely humbled and
> overjoyed to be part of MindVox as I know that here,no matter whether it's
> Cocaine,Speed,Heroin or Pharmaceuticals,we are all searching for ourselves
> again.
> The ride I have chosen with this withdrawal has slowly unfolded on many
> levels and taught me through pain and determination a hell of a lot to put
> it mildly....if I had a dollar for every time a GP or so called specialist
> has said "It shouldn't take that long...I've seen people come off them
> quicker" LOL...I have met some of those that have and man, they are just in
> another mess,just not the one they were in.
>
 I chose the road less travelled and will be far richer for the
> experience...an experience I will pay back to others in the same position.
> It is my duty of care and also part of my wonderful story.
>
> For myslef, like Aya,Tryptamines and Amanita showed me in pieces of a puzzle
> if you will, Ibo is part of my path to work out "why I made the choice"
> To put things in persective,as someone said: "Last time I checked,we all
> have an expiration date!".
> I'll be damned if I don't nut this out before that comes around
>
> I don't expect Ibo to do anything more than what I put in,but it is on my
> path, as I am a warrior,teacher,student and a healer at heart. It will
> happen when the boat arrives and the boat always arrives on time
>
> The world we live in is supposed to be crazy,not us....this I see IS the
> true nature of things.
> This is where the "Big
 Pharma,Big X-factor" comes in as I see it.
> There are definitely Elite and they know only power,lust and greed.They also
> know the mechanics behind the human race.
> We have Love,Compassion,the ability for Reason,Forgiveness and a sense of
> Unity.These "Types" have none of these attributes and so place us in useful
> positions(to them) with the aid of these addictive drugs.
> If you were heartless and lazy,wouldn't you?
> Some are to dumb us down to slow our natural progression,some to improve
> production like ants with a dozen beers after work to put us back again and
> some deemed illicit,yet reasonably tolerated,so we think we are getting away
> with it and need these drugs.So we take more and the seeking becomes the
> addiction.
> Very clever design,but flawed by nature if analyzed in this light.
> The very things they try to instill in some of us use fear based
 tactics as
> their only tool.
> This is why there is an arbitrary scale for punishable and allowable drug
> use.
> Is it any wonder that right now the Military troops from Afghanistan are
> speaking out and don't want war?
> Is it any wonder that Opium production which,when the US was working trade
> deals out for Oil,was nearly Zero as compared to post "False-Flag" 911 which
> are now up 75%?!....The US needs that Heroin!!
> Not to mention the prescription drug side of things and the huge profits and
> pay-offs everyone gets for passing this crap down the line.
> Yes it's all about money.
>
> I would strongly recommend anyone who seeks the road of healing, to
> watch(even rewatch) The Matrix Trilogy and the Animatrix,then watch
> Kymatica,then "Philosophy and The Matrix".
>
> Umm and please remember to help fight Chevron by donating whatever you
 can
> afford to help save the Amazon, via Amazonwatch.Every dollar counts,and they
> are counting on us as much as we have on them.
>
> Thanks for the replies,comments and the chance to speak.
>
> The catch-cry from our home-grown Aussie hip-hop dudes,Bliss and Esso goes
> out to you guys.... "Peace,Love and Unity"
>
> Take care my new friends, we will win.
>
> Andrew...
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Jim Hadey3
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:57 AM
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
> itfeels post flood
>
>
> Hello Andrew,
>
> Seems like you do not have much trust in the drug companies.  Just a day or
> two ago I looked up Methadone and oh man you got to read it to believe it.
> It says an addict uses heroin then switches over
 to Methadone where they can
> get a correct dose of quality pharmaceutical medicine.  Then when stable
> they can detox at the rate of 5 to 10mg per week.  Oh come on 5 to 10 mg per
> week - no way.
>
> Everyone who tried Methadone has said it is harder to quit than most
> anything except sub.  It was much like a infomercial only you read it.  Now
> here is the part where ya got to pay attention:  It says it may be a two or
> three year program.  OK if you can detox at 5 mg a week and you start with
> less than 100mg you should be off in a year, Right?? That's the math.  Seems
> like it has not been updated since 1969 or so.
>
> Best,
>
>   - JIM
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:08 PM, David Ray <trees.and.rain at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Thanks all, Faith in particular.  I took a test dose of 250mg TA a few
>   weeks back as I was concerned about going overseas and finding that I
>   couldn't tolerate Ibo, an allergic reaction or vomitted it up, in
>   which case I would have been in real trouble.  I assumed that this
>   dose was high enough to be a good test, but low enough to not have any
>   significant effect. However, after a few hours, it did begin to have
>   an effect.  A little like mushrooms or LSD, but it felt almost like an
>   animal presence inside me.  The next day still getting a bit of
>   peripheral visual distortion.  Funny dreams for a few days.  And for a
>   few hours there was the vaguely insightful dreaming I've read about.
>   But for the week that followed I could still feel its presence
 inside
>   me, which is why I asked the question.  I like to be prepared.  This
>   tells me that I cannot be prepared, but obviously what I want is
>   something pretty dramatic, so I guess I just need to be ready to hold
>   on for the ride.  Lots of very helpful information.  Thanks again.
>   David
>
>
>   On 08/01/2012, Andrew <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>   > Hi David,I'm in Oz too and coming off long-term,high-dose Benzo's atm
> and
>   > lowering my Alc intake too which are both minimal now.
>   > I ramped the intake and strength(as I home-brew) down slowly as I have
> the
>   > Benzo's as I was on 6mg Xan a day and drinking to blackout stages...I'm
>   > lucky to have
 survived.Alcohol goes really well with Xanax....in the
>   > beginning ;)
>   >
>   > I too am looking at resetting soon,as my addiction was
> "Accidental"...well
>   > basically I was prescribed Xanax and went through the stages of rapid
>   > dependence and tolerance to quite a high dose before I instigated the
> taper
>   > withdrawal over to Valium and I'm nearly at the sticky end after 4 years
>   > detoxing....yes it's a long time I know,but everyone is different in
> this
>   > respect.I want full functionality back and there have been many setbacks
>   > along this path.I take it only now to abate symptoms as I reduce,not
> because
>   > I get high.It's all pain.
>   >
>   > I just read the responses as well as your post and I can say that
>
 T.Iboga
>   > plants are available as well as seeds from www.herbalistics.com.au , as
> is
>   > Kanna.
>   > Darren is a top bloke and will look after you and he told me recently he
> has
>   > seedlings growing now, as you will see there is none in stock atm. I was
> a
>   > member of an ethnobotany forum for many years and am still a member of
>   > another here in Aus.
>   > I wouldn't recommend the corroboree for reasons I won't go into.
>   > OK BIG ego problems,thus my absence and Darrens ;)
>   > Anyway I deter,Sceletium works quite well as I have used it in the past
>   > mainly as a snuff preparation but I have used it sublingually too.
>   > I found snuff was easier to guage as the dose is felt rapidly and you
> get
>   > used to eyeing up how much to
 use.It's also smokeable and a crushed
>   > match-head is roughly a dose.The same for snuff.
>   > It is however something that you would use infrequently,it seems to work
>   > better that way.
>   > The plants are readily available too and the process is traditionally
>   > fermentation in a leather pouch.
>   > Sub-threshold doses of a certain fungus have been reported to be of use
> too.
>   > Also maybe look into Hemia Salcifolia as it has some desirable
> properties
>   > for pain and a non-benzo non-addictive alternative in it's action.
>   > The immature seed heads are hand picked and dried in a warm shady
>   > position.Then they can be crushed and smoked or vapourised.
>   > I have used all these and lotus stamens to help me through
>   > pain,cramps,spasms
 etc.
>   > At one point I employed Mandrake,but you really need to know how to
> prepare
>   > it and how much to use....I was in extreme withdrawal pain and could not
>   > sleep.
>   > These days I use binaural beats(528Hz is good),self-hypnosis and
> meditation
>   > and I'm not depressed.
>   > Points to note with Sceletium and Prozac are NOT to mix them as you
> probably
>   > know and also to understand what the Prozac has actually done to you're
>   > brain.
>   > Prozac contains mostly Sodium Fluoride which calcifies the Pineal Gland
> and
>   > also causes Fluorosis, so look those up and learn about the Pineal's
>   > importance in your mental health and sleep.
>   > Personally I'd steer clear of Pharma's,there are other ways,plus Prozac
>
 has
>   > a bad rep for suicidality.Congrats on getting off them!
>   > Melatonin works great for some to reset the sleep phases,though those
> would
>   > already be interfered with by the other drugs in your system.
>   > Still you could use it and gauge your reaction(usually the 2nd night is
> when
>   > the reset happens).
>   > Pure Melatonin is what you want, somewhere around the 2mg mark, not the
>   > stuff from the chemist as it is like a tissue salt and not active
> enough.
>   > If the dose is too high you will feel drowsy and off balance for a few
> hours
>   > in the morning.Once again,use intermittently.
>   > Bear in mind that it is now illegal under the stupid analogues clause as
> is
>   > GABA, though you can get it easily enough.
>   >
 Sunlight(vitamin D3 synthesis) has proven to have more efficacy than
>   > Prozac.Exposure to the back of the knees seems to be the best.
>   > Don't believe the melanoma hype,studies show more incidences in those
> who
>   > sit under fluorescent lights doing desk work than tradesman, which I was
> for
>   > 15 years installing Airconditioners in the blistering summer heat on
>   > roof-tops.Funny enough, it's Desk-Jockey's that seem to have a higher
>   > incidence of depression as well.
>   > I also had my time with anti-depressants many years ago,though luckily
>   > briefly, as my system reacted to them all quite rapidly thank God.
>   > Check out the CCHR's website and see for yourself how we have been
> grossly
>   > mislead by these dollars for Doc's BS.
>   > They are
 releasing another video soon exposing the DSM!
>   > My heart goes out to all who have been given Pharma's that are worse
> than
>   > pure H as I've watched a lot of Doco's on the subject and know exactly
> why
>   > they prescribe it....it's inhumane IMHO.
>   > For maintaining and assessing your mental-health,there are really good
> sites
>   > like moodgym for C.B.T. so go on the hunt for those sites.They are
> really
>   > good and Bronwyn Fox has some excellent CD's and media available
> especially
>   > on mindful-meditation.
>   > There is no science behind mood altering pharmaceuticals and most if not
> all
>   > do damage to the receptor sites.IMO GP's handing these out is ludicrous
> but
>   > they get a kickback,so...yeah.
>   > Also it's no
 surprise that the push for expanding Methadone sales came
> from
>   > the then Prime Minister's "plight".IMHO it was a believable brainwashing
>   > exercise to make them look good,for the public to embrace it out of
>   > sympathy.
>   > Problem,reaction,solution...this is how Governments work.
>   > All here would know pure H is not dangerous at the correct dosage,it
> used to
>   > be available at the chemist and was in Coca Cola.
>   > There is most probably absolutely nothing wrong with your brain,just
> you're
>   > thoughts.This is where CBT, especially mindful-meditation and exercise
> come
>   > in.
>   > We are built to repair ourselves.We have the ingredients but have been
>   > talked out of it with fake labels/conditions/crap food and thus the
>   >
 proliferation of Pharmaceuticals purely for bloody money!
>   > My PC has been out of action for quite a while now so I have only just
>   > opened up my inbox and am trying to catch up....still can't believe
> Obama
>   > signed away American's Civil Liberties and we have US troops coming to
>   > settle in Darwin o,O!
>   > Chevron's been put back into place,but it looks like they are going to
> try
>   > to drag this out again,so support Amazon Watch guys....if ever we needed
>   > Shaman presence and maintain the diversity of the plants and culture in
> the
>   > world it is now.
>   > Sorry for the pretty random post, but I missed a dose today,been offline
> and
>   > am really starting to feel like shit,so a lot is coming out.
>   > It's getting really hard to concentrate
 now and I'm going through bad
>   > inter-dose withdrawals as I type which will pan out over the next few
>   > weeks,so I hope to keep track and wish you well mate.
>   > You might just find someone in Oz too,just keep posting and feel free to
>   > keep in touch as I will be looking for treatment in the very near future
>   > too.
>   >
>   > Cheers for now and take care all.
>   >
>   > Andrew...
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > --------------------------------------------------
>   > From: "David Ray" <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
>   > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:31 PM
>   > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>   > Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
>   > itfeels post flood
>   >
>   >> Hi Folks,
>   >>
>   >> Apologies in advance for the length of this question, but I need to
>   >> give considerable background to get to what I want to ask about. Also
>   >> a bit of a picture of Australia might help as I?m sure there are major
>   >> differences between Oz and the USA.  Culturally Oz has some closer
>   >> connections to UK and Europe. Cultural difference and the differences
>   >> in the use and availability of different drugs make a difference to
>   >> how the addiction profile is dealt with.  For instance, we have a
>   >> pretty great
 health care system although it has the stresses and
>   >> delays you might expect from ?rational? economic approaches to
>   >> management.  I can go to a doctor free of charge, or with a small
>   >> co-payment and the government pays most or all of the fee.  Blood
>   >> testing is free and a detailed heart analysis (echo-cardiogram) cost
>   >> about $220 but I get back about 80% from the government health agency.
>   >> The status of ibogaine in australia is the same as in the USA ?
>   >> banned. If I had recently ordered 2 grams of TA from ibogaworld, for
>   >> example, the government would have classified that at a level with the
>   >> importation of 2 grams of pure heroin and I would have been liable for
>   >> a jail sentence of months or years.  Had
 ibogaworld posted it labelled
>   >> as some innocuous herb that it vaguely resembled, I might have
>   >> received it safely, but this is purely hypothetical of course.
>   >> Reliable Canadian sources have, quite rightly, refused to post
>   >> ibogaine to me here in australia in the past because of its legal
>   >> status.  I have read about ibogaine for more than a decade and have
>   >> always thought that I would use it at some stage when it became viable
>   >> in Australia, when the difficulties of methadone became unbearable.  I
>   >> have learned that there have been some treatments in Australia, in
>   >> Queensland, the tropical north.  I think that these were done by some
>   >> people I?ve since contacted who are now in the UK. I?ve tried to
>  
 >> contact people listed as ibo providers in the past but have never got
>   >> a reply so I think they came and went quite quickly and were gone,
>   >> quit, jailed or whatever before I learned of them. I suspect that
>   >> there may be other underground ibo groups, probably in north
>   >> queensland, where the product could be successfully grown, but this is
>   >> only a guess.  Seeds can be legally purchased.  It is just the refined
>   >> product that is highly illegal to import. I?ve never been in a
>   >> financial situation where I could think of travelling to Holland or
>   >> Mexico to get a treatment.  Methadone maintenace treatment was vastly
>   >> expanded in the late 80s after a drug conference in 1986 triggered by
>   >> the addiction of the then
 prime minister?s daughter.  At that time
>   >> there were about 200 people on methadone maintenance in Victoria, the
>   >> state where I live. About a quarter of the australian population live
>   >> in this state ? about 5 million people out of 20+ million.  Within a
>   >> couple of years about 3000 people were on methadone.  Now there are
>   >> tens of thousands.  In the last decade subutex has become popular and
>   >> there are thousands also on that.  Many authorities prefer it because
>   >> of its agonist/antagonist nature, despite the factor that methadone?s
>   >> overall success rate is significantly higher.  I went from methadone
>   >> to subutex for a couple of months. I hate the stuff and was overjoyed
>   >> to return to methadone, but
 some people prefer it.  Some hate
>   >> methadone.  I think one of the problems of methadone is that it is
>   >> more subtle in effect, but also goes very poorly with other
>   >> substances.  Alcohol can cause nasty side effects combined with
>   >> methadone, like death by suffocation in your sleep. The diuretic
>   >> effect of alcohol also tends to flush the methadone from your system,
>   >> further screwing the effect.  Combined with benzos it tends to send
>   >> you into zombieland.  As I use it by itself it works well for me.  Or
>   >> has worked reasonably well, despite its difficulties.
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> I?ve been on methadone for 25 years roughly, with a couple of breaks
>   >> of a month or two ? firstly
 a return to heroin about 20 years back,
>   >> then subutex about 3 years back..  I don?t smoke, or drink any more,
>   >> although the idea that I might give up drinking would have been
>   >> unimaginable to me until I stabilised on methadone and gradually gave
>   >> up drinking.  I have hep C which I most likely got about 35 years ago.
>   >> Around 95% of Aus junkies in my age group have hep C, most of them
>   >> got in when it was unknown and sharing syringes was common.  Many of
>   >> my friends who kept drinking are now dead from cirrhosis and related
>   >> liver problems.  I?ve always hated benzos for the way they cloud the
>   >> mind, although I?ve used them for short periods a few times.  When
>   >> methadone maintenance initially became
 available I was offered one of
>   >> ten places on an early trial program.  I turned it down as you?d have
>   >> to agree to stay on methadone for 4 years (we were all long term
>   >> multiple relapse junkies who were offered places.)  No way I?d still
>   >> be on methadone for four years, I thought.  6 months later, for legal
>   >> reasons (conditional good behaviour bond that enabled me to avoid a 6
>   >> month jail sentence on appeal) I was under the supervision of a
>   >> government treatment agency and got on methadone.  Over the years I?ve
>   >> gone up and down but, apart from the couple of months noted above,
>   >> have been on methadone since then.  The only other drug I?ve taken is
>   >> prozac, then effexor, then back to prozac. 
 Lifelong depression is one
>   >> of the root excuses for the H addiction.  H is a very good
>   >> anti-depressant.  It is also one of the few anti-depressants that I
>   >> can tolerate, as it doesn?t muddy the brain and make me
>   >> non-functional. Until prozac came along I could never tolerate any of
>   >> the antidepressants that were prescribed for me.  Too muddy, too
>   >> drowsy, too hangovery.  Now I have tapered off prozac.  While on
>   >> methadone I have done an arts degree (practically worthless, but I met
>   >> some good people and learned a few things).  I have also worked
>   >> fulltime for many years.  Just jobs that meant nothing but provided
>   >> income.  About 8 years ago hep C became very debilitating and I
 gave
>   >> up full time work when redundancy became available, after having to
>   >> take extended leave, most of it unpaid towards the end.  That?s the
>   >> time that I decided to move to the country/coast, live cheaply in a
>   >> cabin and try to get some decent writing done.  In the nineties I
>   >> published a number of short stories and poems in little lit mags but
>   >> it?s mainly been something for myself.  In the last few years the
>   >> poems and stories I?ve been writing have seemed right to me for the
>   >> first time.  I?ve always muddled through my own simple idiot tunes on
>   >> the guitar, and in the last few years I?ve had poems turn into songs
>   >> (when I was younger attempts at public performance were only possible
>  
 >> when blind drunk and they still terrified me ? didn?t go well).    The
>   >> reason I?m giving this biographical crapolla is to explain that the
>   >> writing is what is important.  Methadone has been like a protective
>   >> barrier so that I can be very emotionally open, thus enabling the
>   >> writing, while being protected from the chaos of the modern world (the
>   >> forest is also a major protection).  As the years go on I find that
>   >> the methadone becomes more intrusive and begins to make clarity of
>   >> mind, and hence writing, to be harder.  Likewise the side effects of
>   >> the prozac seemed to become stronger.  I?ve found that reducing
>   >> methadone, even slowly tends to lead to major depression and lethargy,
>   >>
 meaning I can?t write.  So Ibogaine becomes much more desirable, to
>   >> the point that I will be doing a flood when the arrangements can be
>   >> made.  Hopefully in New Zealand, where it has been legal on
>   >> prescription for about 16 months now.  I have a very good person in
>   >> New Zealand who is in the process of lining up a doctor who can be
>   >> made aware of the benefits of ibogaine.  I have done all the necessary
>   >> testing under the standard protocal and found that, although my liver
>   >> is compromised, it has enzyme level within the acceptable range.  My
>   >> doctor here will send the test data and other health information to
>   >> the doctor in New Zealand, who will hopefully be willing to prescribe
>   >> the methadone to be
 administered by my NZ provider.  My doctor is on
>   >> holiday until the middle of january, at which point things will
>   >> hopefully move forward so that I can do a flood.  If this best option,
>   >> near to home, falls through, fortunately there are back up options, (I
>   >> have canadian citizenship, which might assist an option there, also
>   >> there is Mexico, possibly Holland/Costa Rica as there is a provider
>   >> who works in poth of these places) but I would really like to do it in
>   >> NZ as the closeness of NZ and Oz may help to make the treatment
>   >> available in Australia. Ever since I was told of the provider in NZ
>   >> this has seemed lie the optimum option.  After many years I know many
>   >> of the addiction experts here in Oz and will do
 what I can to push for
>   >> treatment opening up here in the future, hopefully as some form of
>   >> government approved trials.
>   >>
>   >> Okay, after all this crap, is there actually a question??????  Yep ?
>   >> there are problems associated with the after-treatment and there are a
>   >> couple of questions I have associated with this.  As the objective is
>   >> that I be able to go on with my writing, return to clarity of mind
>   >> within the shortest possible time, the notion of using benzos or any
>   >> other such intrusive symptomatic forms of relief is pretty pointless.
>   >> I would be willing to go back onto a low dose of prozac for a limited
>   >> period, but really I would like to know if there are very
>   >>
 non-intrusive medications that might help me through this period.
>   >> Melatonin for insomnia has been suggested.  I have not used this, but
>   >> it is natural within the body.  If there are any herbal type things
>   >> that might be helpful, this would be good.
>   >>
>   >> The other question ? noribogaine persists within the body for several
>   >> months and is proposed as the active agent in enabling the long term
>   >> behavioural changes needed to get out of on opiate lifestyle.  What is
>   >> the nature of its effect within the body?  I believe it is subtle, but
>   >> I wonder if anybody might try to describe how it feels to have this
>   >> active substance within you.  It seems like it has some stimulant
>   >> effects, but
 does it feel like you?ve had a couple of cups of coffee,
>   >> or you feel more confident, or?.??????  I realise this is very
>   >> difficult but I have read a huge number of people?s accounts and they
>   >> seem to stop at the end of the active process after a few days.  Would
>   >> anyone like to comment on the feeling of the months that follow a
>   >> flood.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  I will learn myself in a
>   >> couple of months but I?d love to know what other people have to say
>   >> about this.  Sometimes I have read:  ?Harry seemed different after the
>   >> flood.?  But they never say in what way.  Any thoughts????
>   >>
>   >> Thanks in advance,
>   >>
>   >> David
>  
 >>
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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:49:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Ted <bigbadbula at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon
Message-ID:
    <1326214191.90069.YahooMailNeo at web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks everyone for supporting this list : )

I am looking for recommendations for outfits for westerners in Gabon, or possibly Camaroon. I am a 32 year old male and not an addict, aside from a slightly unhealthy relationship with cannabis. I am seeking visionary/spiritual insight, as well as to address some inner emotional/psychic damage. I would like to experience this with the Bwiti. I have heard of organizations that will host travelers and staff doctors trained in western medicine in addition to working with the
 local shamans.

Can anyone recommend such a program, or perhaps point me in the right direction? Any advice will be welcomed and ?greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ted
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 16:02:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon
Message-ID:
    <1326240122.24453.YahooMailNeo at web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Ted,
I am sorry I cant help but someone may come by to help.? If not you might want to go to face book and? look up Demetri.. he is Bwitti and I am sure can be of help.
I would like to ask if you would be willing to come back and share your experince?? I for one would love to hear what it was like for you.? 
Welcome


>________________________________
>From: Ted <bigbadbula at yahoo.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 11:49
 AM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon
>
>
>Thanks everyone for supporting this list : )
>
>
>I am looking for recommendations for outfits for westerners in Gabon, or possibly Camaroon. I am a 32 year old male and not an addict, aside from a slightly unhealthy relationship with cannabis. I am seeking visionary/spiritual insight, as well as to address some inner emotional/psychic damage. I would like to experience this with the Bwiti. I have heard of organizations that will host travelers and staff doctors trained in western medicine in addition to working with the local shamans.
>
>
>Can anyone recommend such a program, or perhaps point me in the right direction? Any advice will be welcomed and ?greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Thanks,
>Ted
>
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 19:05:11 -0500
From: Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in
 Gabon
Message-ID:
    <CAEoZqz2nbNu4cunBP4rq6bjPbb3BuensyF+F7ASpv6TRSiM_YA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Ted,

Do you think that Ibo is going to do more for ya because you consume it in
Africa rather than the USA??  I mean no disrespect for if you want to go
and feel that it will help by all means go but the answer may lie in you
and the Ibo brings it out so ya can deal with it.  Kind of reminds me of
the time when the Beatles went to India to meditate with some yoga guy.  I
mean why did they have to go to India couldn't they meditate in England??
Anyway, I hope you find what your looking for if so please drop us a line
and let us know.

Wishing you the best,

  - JIM

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ted <bigbadbula at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks everyone for supporting this list : )
>
> I am looking for recommendations for outfits for westerners in Gabon, or
> possibly Camaroon. I am a 32 year old male and not an addict, aside from a
> slightly unhealthy relationship with cannabis. I am seeking
> visionary/spiritual insight, as well as to address some inner
> emotional/psychic damage. I would like to experience this with the Bwiti. I
> have heard of organizations that will host travelers and staff doctors
> trained in western medicine in addition to working with the local shamans.
>
> Can anyone recommend such a program, or perhaps point me in the right
> direction? Any advice will be welcomed and  greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Ted
>
>
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:12:16 -0700
From: Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon
Message-ID: <4F0CD3E0.9070606 at mtciep.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Good and Valid points Jim.

Wishing you well Ted.

___________________
Edward
edwardw at mtciep.com





On 1/10/2012 5:05 PM, Jim Hadey3 wrote:
> Hi Ted,
>
> Do you think that Ibo is going to do more for ya because you consume 
> it in Africa rather than the USA??  I mean no disrespect for if you 
> want to go and feel that it will help by all means go but the answer 
> may lie in you and the Ibo brings it out so ya can deal with it.  Kind 
> of reminds me
 of the time when the Beatles went to India to meditate 
> with some yoga guy.  I mean why did they have to go to India couldn't 
> they meditate in England??  Anyway, I hope you find what your looking 
> for if so please drop us a line and let us know.
>
> Wishing you the best,
>
>   - JIM
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ted <bigbadbula at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:bigbadbula at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks everyone for supporting this list : )
>
>     I am looking for recommendations for outfits for westerners in
>     Gabon, or possibly Camaroon. I am a 32 year old male and not an
>     addict, aside from a slightly unhealthy
 relationship with
>     cannabis. I am seeking visionary/spiritual insight, as well as to
>     address some inner emotional/psychic damage. I would like to
>     experience this with the Bwiti. I have heard of organizations that
>     will host travelers and staff doctors trained in western medicine
>     in addition to working with the local shamans.
>
>     Can anyone recommend such a program, or perhaps point me in the
>     right direction? Any advice will be welcomed and  greatly appreciated.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Ted
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 16:45:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon
Message-ID:
    <1326242724.58591.YahooMailNeo at web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I would love to go to Africa.? Maybe not for Iboga but just to go and see the land.? If I had the money that is.? Sometimes one goes just to experience the Country, culture and the people.? I for one, if I could would love to travel.? There is nothing like being there to get a true feel for the culture.



>________________________________
>From: Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:05 PM
>Subject: Re:
 [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon
>
>
>Hi Ted,
>
>Do you think that Ibo is going to do more for ya because you consume it in Africa rather than the USA??? I mean no disrespect for if you want to go and feel that it will help by all means go but the answer may lie in you and the Ibo brings it out so ya can deal with it.? Kind of reminds me of the time when the Beatles went to India to meditate with some yoga guy.? I mean why did they have to go to India couldn't they meditate in England??? Anyway, I hope you find what your looking for if so please drop us a line and let us know.
>
>Wishing you the best,
>
>? - JIM
>
>
>On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ted <bigbadbula at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks everyone for supporting this list : )
>>
>>
>>I am
 looking for recommendations for outfits for westerners in Gabon, or possibly Camaroon. I am a 32 year old male and not an addict, aside from a slightly unhealthy relationship with cannabis. I am seeking visionary/spiritual insight, as well as to address some inner emotional/psychic damage. I would like to experience this with the Bwiti. I have heard of organizations that will host travelers and staff doctors trained in western medicine in addition to working with the local shamans.
>>
>>
>>Can anyone recommend such a program, or perhaps point me in the right direction? Any advice will be welcomed and ?greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>Thanks,Ted
>>
>>?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:50:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The
 Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
Message-ID:
    <1326239432.90755.YahooMailNeo at web132504.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count while your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any difference? I am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am wondering whats the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test knowing it could have influenced the tests for the better if I wasnt on opiates, so if anybody can advise I would appreaciate
 it.

Thanks.



________________________________
From: Gary Bryan <gary_bryan at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012, 16:15
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin


It took away 100% of my acute wd's .. for maybe 24-36 hours.. I was in full wd before i took it and an hour i was fine.. (just tripping :) after that they slowly crept back in but by taking the TA and RB I had left It was controllable to probabyl 80-90% of how bad it would have been without.. just sneezing and lethargic.. nothing compared with coming off 60mg methadone cold..




On 6 January 2012 16:10, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:

i found that with sub there was a point that i couldnt go any lower... my point was 2mg.. i COULNT go lower... panic would set in and i would do anything to get my drugs.. anway, if you want ibogaine to do 95% of the work or not do it at all, it doesnt sound like you dont want to get clean to begin with.. hell i would of been happy with any relief... let alone 95%.. its more like 80% of symptoms.. it takes a raging flu and changes it to a bad cold...
>it sounds like you may need more time using before your ready to quit.. hopefully by then you havent ruined your life... best of wishes
>junkboy
>
>
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:50:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
Message-ID:
    <1326239455.83047.YahooMailNeo at web132501.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count while 
your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any 
difference? I am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am 
wondering whats the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test knowing it could have influenced the tests for the 
better if I wasnt on opiates, so if anybody can advise I would 
appreaciate it.

Thanks.


________________________________
From: David Ray
 <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2012, 1:51
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine

Donny, to give a bit of understanding.? Opioids (heroin type drugs)
work because they connect chemically to a group of 3 neuron receptors
in the brain (there are more than this but these are the main ones).
The chemicals that connect are in two main groups called agonists
(activators) and antagonists (blockers).? Amongst the agonists (like
heroin morphine etc) there are some called competitive and some called
non-competitive.? Heroin and morphine are non-competitive, meaning
that you can take one, then the other will add to the effect if taken.
Nor-ibogaine, the active component
 of ibogaine HCL is
non-competitive, so it increases the effect of other opiates.? Subutex
is a competitive agonist/antagonist.? It is a bit active, but it also
blocks the receptors so that other drugs won't work. This means that
it actively works against ibo and makes the process that much harder.
But it is relatively short acting.? In a month or less it is
completely gone from your system, at which point the MScontin or
whatever you've replaced it with is all that you have to deal with.
Which means that ibo has the maximum probability of success.? Other
factors for you to consider, however, are that you are already on a
dose of subutex that is lower than many people could tolerate.? Many
people at that level would be already feeling like crap.? That means
you're already going well if you're feeling okay at that level.? A lot
of people step off subutex at that level without major consequences.
It might be worth
 your while reducing and quitting the subutex and see
what happens.? If it is too painful, then go onto the MSContin, get
yourself stabilised and then give the ibo a go. Ibo is a dangerous
drug and not to be taken lightly, though, so don't use it if you don't
need it. You really are in a great position to get clean.? Some
psychological support of whatever kind you can find and works for you
would be really useful.? And if you go the ibo route you should get an
experienced provider.? Even if you're young and healthy you really
need someone reliable and experienced to look after you.? Also, many
people relapse many times before getting clean, so don't beat yourself
up if that happens.? You learn a bit more each time.? (I posted this
on another listing, then realised this is the main one so I've copied
it here as it may have some value.? Then again, maybe not, but it's
the thought that counts)? Good luck.

On
 07/01/2012, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
> i was on as much sub as i wanted for a couple years. two i think. then i
> tapered down to 2mg for a couple months.. then i did a ta 4g of extract
> with a 1.5g booster at 3 months...and random root bark boosters.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>
>> Sorry I asked how long you was on sub, few months? Few years? what was
>> your highest dose? I thought somebody would remember their highest dose
>> and
>> how long rougly they were on sub before a flood dose...Sorry for asking
>> the
>> same question its just that I may have missed if you said the duration of
>> sub you was
 on...So what type of Iboga/Ibogaine did you use for a flood
>> dose? mind Your one of only 2 people on this site who have said they came
>> off sub with Iboga and stayed clean..The rest of fols on other forums and
>> outside the net all claim Iboga/Ibogaine doesnt do much for sub users and
>> they either relapsed because of depression and PAWS post-sub or went to
>> methadone...So it's just I would like to have much information and detail
>> as possible in how long you was on sub, what your highest maintence dose
>> was and what type of Iboga-Ibogaine you used, and how many boosters, the
>> more info the more prepared I can get and gives me hope.
>>
>>?  ------------------------------
>> *From:* junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 15:02
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>> i came off of 2mg sub with no problems... 23mg/k flood and a booster at 3
>> months... worked fine...
>>
>>
>>
>

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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:07:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
Message-ID:
    <1326244027.29987.YahooMailNeo at web84007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

you can get both the EKG and all blood test.? The sub should not affect any of
 it.



>________________________________
>From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:50 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>
>
>Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count while your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any difference? I am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am wondering whats the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test knowing it could have influenced the tests for the better if I wasnt on opiates, so if anybody can advise I would appreaciate
 it.
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Gary Bryan <gary_bryan at blueyonder.co.uk>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012, 16:15
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>
>
>It took away 100% of my acute wd's .. for maybe 24-36 hours.. I was in full wd before i took it and an hour i was fine.. (just tripping :) after that they slowly crept back in but by taking the TA and RB I had left It was controllable to probabyl 80-90% of how bad it would have been without.. just sneezing and lethargic.. nothing compared with coming off 60mg methadone cold..
>
>
>
>
>On 6 January 2012 16:10, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>i found that with sub there was a point that i couldnt go any lower... my point was 2mg.. i COULNT go lower... panic would set in and i would do anything to get my drugs.. anway, if you want ibogaine to do 95% of the work or not do it at all, it doesnt sound like you dont want to get clean to begin with.. hell i would of been happy with any relief... let alone 95%.. its more like 80% of symptoms.. it takes a raging flu and changes it to a bad cold...
>>it sounds like you may need more time using before your ready to quit.. hopefully by then you havent ruined your life... best of wishes
>>junkboy
>>
>>
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:19:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Ted <bigbadbula at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon
Message-ID:
    <1326259149.78396.YahooMailNeo at web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

My interest
 in traveling to Africa lies in the idea that the Bwiti people are the ones who have been practicing this shamanic tradition for thousands of years. I believe this makes them the most qualified to administer the iboga, guide the experience, and interpret certain visions therein. Perhaps this is what the Beatles were seeking in India as well?

I know that this intuition is very strong, and I feel it is important to heed : )


________________________________
From: Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Looking for an iboga outfit in Gabon

Good and Valid points Jim.

Wishing you well Ted.

___________________
Edward
edwardw at mtciep.com





On 1/10/2012 5:05 PM, Jim Hadey3 wrote:
> Hi Ted,
> 
> Do you think that Ibo is going to do more for ya because you consume it in Africa rather than the USA??? I mean no disrespect for if you want to go and feel that it will help by all means go but the answer may lie in you and the Ibo brings it out so ya can deal with it.? Kind of reminds me of the time when the Beatles went to India to meditate with some yoga guy.? I mean why did they have to go to India couldn't they meditate in England??? Anyway, I hope you find what your looking for if so please drop us a line and let us know.
> 
> Wishing you the best,
> 
>?  - JIM
> 
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ted <bigbadbula at yahoo.com <mailto:bigbadbula at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> 
>? ?  Thanks everyone for supporting this list : )
> 
>? ?  I am looking for recommendations for outfits for westerners in
>? ?  Gabon, or possibly Camaroon. I am a 32 year old male and not an
>? ?  addict, aside from a slightly unhealthy relationship with
>? ?  cannabis. I am seeking visionary/spiritual insight, as well as to
>? ?  address some inner emotional/psychic damage. I would like to
>? ?  experience this with the Bwiti. I have heard of organizations that
>? ?  will host travelers and staff doctors trained in western medicine
>? ?  in addition to working with the local shamans.
> 
>? ?  Can anyone recommend such a program, or perhaps point me in the
>? ?  right direction? Any advice will be
 welcomed and? greatly appreciated.
> 
>? ?  Thanks,
>? ?  Ted
> 
> 
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:51:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
Message-ID:
    <1326239482.78711.YahooMailNeo at web132503.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count while 
your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any 
difference? I am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am 
wondering whats the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test knowing it could have influenced the tests for the 
better if I wasnt on opiates, so if anybody can advise I would 
appreaciate it.

Thanks.


________________________________
From: junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 15:02
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine


i came off of 2mg sub with no problems... 23mg/k flood and a booster at 3 months... worked fine...



On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

@junkboy how long were you on sub for? did you be far away from sub prior to Ibogaine/Iboga? if folks are getting withdrawals even from a short acting opiate such as MScontin/Zamorph even by being clean for 24 hours post-Iboga-Ibogaine then how is one going to cope from sub (which is a long acting opiate) duting Iboga trip and after?
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
>To: The Ibogaine
 List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 2:44
>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
> 
>
>i got down to 2mg a day of sub and one flood with a booster at 3 months did it for me.
>
>
>On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:56 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>well, he was on 8 mg for two years, then he got off two weeks and did ibogaine hcl flood... he was good for 5 months but relapsed when his older?left his sub out when he was living here, After he relapsed he was taking about 4 mg a day for a couple months, maybe 3 and?did another flood, he has been clean for about 6 months.? He works out a lot and completely changed his diet. His older brother who is still on?sub
 like you has?been taking it ?about 6 years of 6-8 mg daily, YUK, he wants to get off but he is working full-time and has big payments.? HONESTLY,? i think someone else can probably answer this question better.? I am thinking he is going to have to go to?short acting opiate for aT LEAST ONE MONTH.? I am not familiar with zamorph, or gapacetine.? So?you are on 1 mg of sub??? is that right, how long??? Did you have trouble cutting down,??my son's both tried cutting down and just could not do it??? Anyway someone else may have
more information for you!!? Good Luck!!
>>?
>>peace,? Star
>>?
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 09:45:53 +0000
>>From: donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk
>>
>>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>>
>>Hi Star, I've been on sub for 6 years and counting, would that make a difference? I think it will but would 2 weeks being off sub prior to Ibogaine make any major difference?? I have valium and zamorph, also codeine too. I also have Gapacentine dont know if that works similar to Lyrica.. Am already on 0.5/1mg of sub..
>>
>>
>>
>>How long was your son on sub?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>
>>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
>>Sent: Monday, 2 January 2012,
 4:02
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>> 
>>
>>try to get down to 2 to 3 mg sub daily....for at least a month before you go on short acting opiates like vicoprophen and valium helps loads not a lot of valium though maybe 10 mg when?in worst withdrawal from sub? which would maybe be on day 3 to 6.? Get off the valium at least 3 days before treatment.? Also Lyrica helps with nerve pain? for a day or two only during worse withdrawals from sub.? My understanding is that you?should be off sub for AT LEAST two weeks before doing the flood but of course more time?would be better....?this worked for?my son. ALSO Benadryl blocks all nausea, it is amazing as I?did a couple floods to reduce hcv viral load and nothing worked for nausea but BENADRYL, I could not believe it, it was a miracle, only 25 mg for 125 lbs, so may need two if heavier... it blocks some receptors in stomach that prevents nausea.....
 anyway, you gotta be off the sub at a minimum of two weeks but how long have you been on sub????
>>?
>>Good luck,? Star
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:58:22 -0700
>>From: junkboy64 at gmail.com
>>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>>sub is nasty... id switch to something, anything else, for as long as possible. a month plus!!!
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Hello!
>>>
>>>
>>>I wish to ask
 couple of questios on Mindvox regarding Ibogaine and Subutex/Suboxone/Buprenorphine. Am pretty new to the Ibogaine/Ibogs scene and do not know how to go about posting on Mindvox..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I wish to ask all memebers what is the standard protocol of Iboga/Ibogaine in order to detox from Subutex.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have been taking Subutex for 6 years and am on 0.5 currently. I wish to use Ibogaine but do not know how to go about it. I have morphine time release (Zomorph or MScontin) and was wondering if I can use that to step off from Subutex prior to Ibogaine/Iboga.
>>>
>>>
>>>Are there any people here who have detoxed from sub using Ibogaine? if so how did it go for you..Did you still get withdrawals or these PAWS afterwards? what is the best way on going about detoxing from sub using Iboga..I've been told it's difficult with even
 with Ibogaine so I iwish to read peoples experiences and opinions about this.
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank you.
>>>
>>>D.
>>>
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 01:41:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
Message-ID:
    <1326246092.61410.YahooMailNeo at web132501.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Not even another
 opiate like morphine?



________________________________
From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, 11 January 2012, 1:07
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin


you can get both the EKG and all blood test.? The sub should not affect any of it.



From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:50 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>
>
>Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full
 Blood-Count while your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any difference? I am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am wondering whats the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test knowing it could have influenced the tests for the better if I wasnt on opiates, so if anybody can advise I would appreaciate it.
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>From: Gary Bryan <gary_bryan at blueyonder.co.uk>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012, 16:15
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>
>
>It took away 100% of my acute wd's .. for maybe 24-36 hours.. I was in full wd before i took it and an hour i was fine.. (just tripping :)
 after that they slowly crept back in but by taking the TA and RB I had left It was controllable to probabyl 80-90% of how bad it would have been without.. just sneezing and lethargic.. nothing compared with coming off 60mg methadone cold..
>
>
>
>
>On 6 January 2012 16:10, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>i found that with sub there was a point that i couldnt go any lower... my point was 2mg.. i COULNT go lower... panic would set in and i would do anything to get my drugs.. anway, if you want ibogaine to do 95% of the work or not do it at all, it doesnt sound like you dont want to get clean to begin with.. hell i would of been happy with any relief... let alone 95%.. its more like 80% of symptoms.. it takes a raging flu and changes it to a bad cold...
>>it sounds like you may need more time using before your ready
 to quit.. hopefully by then you havent ruined your life... best of wishes
>>junkboy
>>
>>
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 14:17:01 +1100
From: "Andrew" <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Medication
Message-ID: <BAY167-DS24959702F02361C78364DAFE9E0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Agreed, wean is the word especially with meds that have anticonvulsant properties.
This is why cold turkey for Benzo's and the like are NOT recommended,one could end up in a wooden box pronto.
You need to let your brain chemistry slowly fight back for normal function even if this means going through bouts of pins and needles,cold extremeties,flu like symptoms,spasms....it's your body/brain repairing.
Something I have been dealing with for a long time,it's
 rough but must be done.
So take it slow for the better outcome.The end result is more important junkboy64,wishing you well.

Andrew...


From: sister 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:12 PM
To: The Ibogaine List 
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Medication


A slower wean should help ... I would not have it in the system.

Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.

On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:19 PM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:


  taper any anti depressants so you dont get those effects.


  On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Chris Mallin <cmallin20 at gmail.com> wrote:

    Hello All,

    Good evening! 

    Quick question. 

    If someone is
 talking Lamictal (lamotrigine), but not for seizures or bipolar but rather for an attention/cognitive issue, does he have to stop talking the Lamictal before the Ibogaine treatment? 

    In this case, whenever he stops, he gets these side effects from stopping, such as pins and needles, etc., which make it very uncomfortable. So would he need to stop it weeks before the Ibogaine (I mean, will the Lamictal hurt the Ibogaine treatment and make it less effective), or can he stay on the Lamictal until the Ibogaine treatment (or maybe stop it just days or only one week before)?

    As always, thank you to all who are considerate enough to respond!

    Chris


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:28:21 +1100
From: David Ray <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
Message-ID:
    <CAD_M9k2fYAYzPMqdKVd304AXVFX0d54XTwRaZUBGcebqRfR56w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=ISO-8859-1

Opiates will not effect these tests in a major way.  In any case, you
want to test the state of your current health, as you are when taking
the ibo, not the way you might be after you do the ibo. If you're an
athlete and you want to know your chance of winning a race, you test
your fitness just before the race, not how you might be in 6 months of
more training. Test as close to the time as possible, but a few weeks
or even months shouldn't make much difference as long as nothing
drastic happens in between. Again, a good provider who can deal with
any problems, small or large, can make all the difference.  In the
experimental past roughly one person in 300 has died on ibogaine. That
was before the testing regime was developed.  If your heart tests okay
that massively reduces the risk as most who died had heart problems.
Of the other deaths most had taken other drugs at the same
 time as the
ibogaine (I don't mean the day before, which is the accepted safety
point.  If you're just beginning to feel withdrawals, that's when you
take the ibo so that it takes over from the opiate, doesn't combine
with it in a major way.)  A good provider can make the risk tiny and
the likelihood of success very good.

On 11/01/2012, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count while
> your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any difference? I
> am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am wondering whats the
> best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test
> knowing it could have influenced the tests for the better if I wasnt on
> opiates, so if anybody can advise I
 would appreaciate it.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Gary Bryan <gary_bryan at blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012, 16:15
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>
>
> It took away 100% of my acute wd's .. for maybe 24-36 hours.. I was in full
> wd before i took it and an hour i was fine.. (just tripping :) after that
> they slowly crept back in but by taking the TA and RB I had left It was
> controllable to probabyl 80-90% of how bad it would have been without.. just
> sneezing and lethargic.. nothing compared with coming off 60mg methadone
>
 cold..
>
>
>
>
> On 6 January 2012 16:10, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i found that with sub there was a point that i couldnt go any lower... my
> point was 2mg.. i COULNT go lower... panic would set in and i would do
> anything to get my drugs.. anway, if you want ibogaine to do 95% of the work
> or not do it at all, it doesnt sound like you dont want to get clean to
> begin with.. hell i would of been happy with any relief... let alone 95%..
> its more like 80% of symptoms.. it takes a raging flu and changes it to a
> bad cold...
>>it sounds like you may need more time using before your ready to quit..
>> hopefully by then you havent ruined your life... best of wishes
>>junkboy
>>
>>
>>?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List
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------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:40:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re:
 [Ibogaine] MS Contin
Message-ID:
    <1326289202.35277.YahooMailNeo at web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Not even morphine....? 



>________________________________
>From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>
>
>Not even another opiate like morphine?
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Wednesday, 11 January 2012, 1:07
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>
>
>you can get both the EKG and all blood test.? The sub should not affect any of it.
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>>From: Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>
>>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:50 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>>
>>
>>Can you take a EKG test, with
 a liver function and full Blood-Count while your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any difference? I am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am wondering whats the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test knowing it could have influenced the tests for the better if I wasnt on opiates, so if anybody can advise I would appreaciate it.
>>
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>From: Gary Bryan <gary_bryan at blueyonder.co.uk>
>>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>>Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012, 16:15
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MS Contin
>>
>>
>>It took
 away 100% of my acute wd's .. for maybe 24-36 hours.. I was in full wd before i took it and an hour i was fine.. (just tripping :) after that they slowly crept back in but by taking the TA and RB I had left It was controllable to probabyl 80-90% of how bad it would have been without.. just sneezing and lethargic.. nothing compared with coming off 60mg methadone cold..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 6 January 2012 16:10, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>i found that with sub there was a point that i couldnt go any lower... my point was 2mg.. i COULNT go lower... panic would set in and i would do anything to get my drugs.. anway, if you want ibogaine to do 95% of the work or not do it at all, it doesnt sound like you dont want to get clean to begin with.. hell i would of been happy with any relief... let alone 95%..
 its more like 80% of symptoms.. it takes a raging flu and changes it to a bad cold...
>>>it sounds like you may need more time using before your ready to quit.. hopefully by then you havent ruined your life... best of wishes
>>>junkboy
>>>
>>>
>>>?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:47:44 -0800
From: Megan Simm <megansimm90 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
Message-ID:
    <CAP_87nT7k4oXzhT6G6N7axWC0BhecrNCTPMmYWhrCePxhcLnKg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I sent a reply to donny yesterday and im not sure if it went through.
Opiates subs and methadone wont affect your ekg and other lab results so
dont worry about it ;)
On Jan 11, 2012 4:17 AM, "Donny Drake" <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count while
> your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any difference? I
> am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am wondering whats
> the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test
> knowing it could have influenced the tests for the better if I wasnt
 on
> opiates, so if anybody can advise I would appreaciate it.
>
>  Thanks.
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 15:02
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>
> i came off of 2mg sub with no problems... 23mg/k flood and a booster at 3
> months... worked fine...
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>
> @junkboy how long were you on sub for? did you be far away from sub prior
> to
 Ibogaine/Iboga? if folks are getting withdrawals even from a short
> acting opiate such as MScontin/Zamorph even by being clean for 24 hours
> post-Iboga-Ibogaine then how is one going to cope from sub (which is a long
> acting opiate) duting Iboga trip and after?
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 2:44
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>
> i got down to 2mg a day of sub and one flood with a booster at 3 months
> did it for me.
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:56 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>  well, he was on 8 mg for two years, then he got off two weeks and did
> ibogaine hcl flood... he was good for 5 months but relapsed when his
> older left his sub out when he was living here, After he relapsed he was
> taking about 4 mg a day for a couple months, maybe 3 and did another flood,
> he has been clean for about 6 months.  He works out a lot and completely
> changed his diet. His older brother who is still on sub like you has been
> taking it  about 6 years of 6-8 mg daily, YUK, he wants to get off but he
> is working full-time and has big payments.  HONESTLY,  i think someone else
> can probably answer this question better.  I am thinking he is going to
> have to go to short acting opiate for aT LEAST ONE MONTH.  I am not
> familiar with zamorph, or
 gapacetine.  So you are on 1 mg of sub??  is that
> right, how long??  Did you have trouble cutting down,  my son's both tried
> cutting down and just could not do it??  Anyway someone else may have more
> information for you!!  Good Luck!!
>
> peace,  Star
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 09:45:53 +0000
> From: donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk
>
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>
> Hi Star, I've been on sub for 6 years and counting, would that make a
> difference? I think it will but would 2 weeks being off sub prior to
> Ibogaine make any major difference?  I have valium and zamorph,
 also
> codeine too. I also have Gapacentine dont know if that works similar to
> Lyrica.. Am already on 0.5/1mg of sub..
>
> How long was your son on sub?
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>
> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
> *Sent:* Monday, 2 January 2012, 4:02
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>
>  try to get down to 2 to 3 mg sub daily....for at least a month before you
> go on short acting opiates like vicoprophen and valium helps loads not a
> lot of valium though maybe 10 mg when in worst withdrawal from sub  which
> would maybe be on day 3 to 6.  Get off the valium at least 3 days before
>
 treatment.  Also Lyrica helps with nerve pain  for a day or two only during
> worse withdrawals from sub.  My understanding is that you should be off sub
> for AT LEAST two weeks before doing the flood but of course more time would
> be better.... this worked for my son. ALSO Benadryl blocks all nausea, it
> is amazing as I did a couple floods to reduce hcv viral load and nothing
> worked for nausea but BENADRYL, I could not believe it, it was a miracle,
> only 25 mg for 125 lbs, so may need two if heavier... it blocks some
> receptors in stomach that prevents nausea..... anyway, you gotta be off the
> sub at a minimum of two weeks but how long have you been on sub????
>
> Good luck,  Star
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:58:22 -0700
> From: junkboy64 at gmail.com
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>
> sub is nasty... id switch to something, anything else, for as long as
> possible. a month plus!!!
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>
>  Hello!
>
> I wish to ask couple of questios on Mindvox regarding Ibogaine and
> Subutex/Suboxone/Buprenorphine. Am pretty new to the Ibogaine/Ibogs scene
> and do not know how to go about posting on Mindvox..
>
> I wish to ask all memebers what is the standard protocol of Iboga/Ibogaine
> in order to detox from Subutex.
>
> I have been taking
 Subutex for 6 years and am on 0.5 currently. I wish to
> use Ibogaine but do not know how to go about it. I have morphine time
> release (Zomorph or MScontin) and was wondering if I can use that to step
> off from Subutex prior to Ibogaine/Iboga.
>
> Are there any people here who have detoxed from sub using Ibogaine? if so
> how did it go for you..Did you still get withdrawals or these PAWS
> afterwards? what is the best way on going about detoxing from sub using
> Iboga..I've been told it's difficult with even with Ibogaine so I iwish to
> read peoples experiences and opinions about this.
>
> Thank you.
>
> D.
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:50:39 -0800
From: Megan Simm <megansimm90 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
Message-ID:
    <CAP_87nSrx94DLiDu3Y+rKAX9u32Seq9TKb6LwpS5xdftpded-w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Also good luck with things.
 You are in my thoughts. Im very excited for you
:)
On Jan 11, 2012 5:47 AM, "Megan Simm" <megansimm90 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I sent a reply to donny yesterday and im not sure if it went through.
> Opiates subs and methadone wont affect your ekg and other lab results so
> dont worry about it ;)
> On Jan 11, 2012 4:17 AM, "Donny Drake" <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count while
>> your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any difference? I
>> am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am wondering whats
>> the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or whatever test
>> knowing it could
 have influenced the tests for the better if I wasnt on
>> opiates, so if anybody can advise I would appreaciate it.
>>
>>  Thanks.
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 15:02
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>> i came off of 2mg sub with no problems... 23mg/k flood and a booster at 3
>> months... worked fine...
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>>
>> @junkboy how long were you on sub for? did you be far away from sub prior
>> to Ibogaine/Iboga? if folks are getting withdrawals even from a short
>> acting opiate such as MScontin/Zamorph even by being clean for 24 hours
>> post-Iboga-Ibogaine then how is one going to cope from sub (which is a long
>> acting opiate) duting Iboga trip and after?
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 2:44
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex &
 Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>> i got down to 2mg a day of sub and one flood with a booster at 3 months
>> did it for me.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:56 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>  well, he was on 8 mg for two years, then he got off two weeks and did
>> ibogaine hcl flood... he was good for 5 months but relapsed when his
>> older left his sub out when he was living here, After he relapsed he was
>> taking about 4 mg a day for a couple months, maybe 3 and did another flood,
>> he has been clean for about 6 months.  He works out a lot and completely
>> changed his diet. His older brother who is still on sub like you has been
>> taking it  about 6 years of 6-8 mg daily, YUK, he wants to get off but he
>>
 is working full-time and has big payments.  HONESTLY,  i think someone else
>> can probably answer this question better.  I am thinking he is going to
>> have to go to short acting opiate for aT LEAST ONE MONTH.  I am not
>> familiar with zamorph, or gapacetine.  So you are on 1 mg of sub??  is that
>> right, how long??  Did you have trouble cutting down,  my son's both tried
>> cutting down and just could not do it??  Anyway someone else may have more
>> information for you!!  Good Luck!!
>>
>> peace,  Star
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 09:45:53 +0000
>> From: donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk
>>
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>> Hi Star, I've been on sub for 6 years and counting, would that make a
>> difference? I think it will but would 2 weeks being off sub prior to
>> Ibogaine make any major difference?  I have valium and zamorph, also
>> codeine too. I also have Gapacentine dont know if that works similar to
>> Lyrica.. Am already on 0.5/1mg of sub..
>>
>> How long was your son on sub?
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>
>> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, 2 January 2012,
 4:02
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>>  try to get down to 2 to 3 mg sub daily....for at least a month before
>> you go on short acting opiates like vicoprophen and valium helps loads not
>> a lot of valium though maybe 10 mg when in worst withdrawal from sub  which
>> would maybe be on day 3 to 6.  Get off the valium at least 3 days before
>> treatment.  Also Lyrica helps with nerve pain  for a day or two only during
>> worse withdrawals from sub.  My understanding is that you should be off sub
>> for AT LEAST two weeks before doing the flood but of course more time would
>> be better.... this worked for my son. ALSO Benadryl blocks all nausea, it
>> is amazing as I did a couple floods to reduce hcv viral load and nothing
>> worked for nausea but BENADRYL, I could not believe it, it was
 a miracle,
>> only 25 mg for 125 lbs, so may need two if heavier... it blocks some
>> receptors in stomach that prevents nausea..... anyway, you gotta be off the
>> sub at a minimum of two weeks but how long have you been on sub????
>>
>> Good luck,  Star
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:58:22 -0700
>> From: junkboy64 at gmail.com
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>
>> sub is nasty... id switch to something, anything else, for as long as
>> possible. a month plus!!!
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>>
>>  Hello!
>>
>> I wish to ask couple of questios on Mindvox regarding Ibogaine and
>> Subutex/Suboxone/Buprenorphine. Am pretty new to the Ibogaine/Ibogs scene
>> and do not know how to go about posting on Mindvox..
>>
>> I wish to ask all memebers what is the standard protocol of
>> Iboga/Ibogaine in order to detox from Subutex.
>>
>> I have been taking Subutex for 6 years and am on 0.5 currently. I wish to
>> use Ibogaine but do not know how to go about it. I have morphine time
>> release (Zomorph or MScontin) and was wondering if I can use that to step
>> off from Subutex prior to Ibogaine/Iboga.
>>
>> Are there any people here who have detoxed from sub using Ibogaine? if so
>> how did it go for you..Did you still
 get withdrawals or these PAWS
>> afterwards? what is the best way on going about detoxing from sub using
>> Iboga..I've been told it's difficult with even with Ibogaine so I iwish to
>> read peoples experiences and opinions about this.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> D.
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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Message: 27
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:37:20 -0700
From: jeff goldstein <turftut at gmail.com>
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzodiazepines
Message-ID:
    <CAA_Z+cWZKf=D9vyxUox3RqXX5m65RkyeJFmrkEuHs8Om_Fjxow at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

hello ibocommuninity.Any recent information re ibogaine's efficacy in
treating benzodiazepine dependence?
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Message: 28
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:04:36 -0500
From: Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzodiazepines
Message-ID:
    <CAAxLk=S5TAAsRCBvKace=Qzk3pYEwuwzpxdPdSU89UPouKtxyQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I got off
 benzos after doing ibogaine. It was gradual but the Ibogaine
calmed my nervous system down. I also used the recommendations in the book
_The Mood Cure_.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:37 PM, jeff goldstein <turftut at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello ibocommuninity.Any recent information re ibogaine's efficacy in
> treating benzodiazepine dependence?
>
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------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:02:27 -0500
From: Jim Hadey3 <jimhadey3 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
Message-ID:
    <CAEoZqz0TE04up9a1FEP8TRBcUkCT+Ju2eWJJxsT3q1bPd7X-HQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Folks,

Just so ya know vicoprophen is a Very
 expensive way to get hydrocodone, it
is much cheaper than to buy Lortab.  I had to take it once for I was over
the limit on my Tylenol which should not exceed 4 grams per day.

Best,

  - JIM

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Megan Simm <megansimm90 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also good luck with things. You are in my thoughts. Im very excited for
> you :)
> On Jan 11, 2012 5:47 AM, "Megan Simm" <megansimm90 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I sent a reply to donny yesterday and im not sure if it went through.
>> Opiates subs and methadone wont affect your ekg and other lab results so
>> dont worry about it ;)
>> On Jan 11, 2012 4:17 AM, "Donny Drake" <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Can you take a EKG test, with a liver function and full Blood-Count
>>> while your on Subutex? or any other opiates? or doesn't it make any
>>> difference? I am told I need these tests before Iboga treatment, so am
>>> wondering whats the best way to go about this...I don't want to do a EKG or
>>> whatever test knowing it could have influenced the tests for the better if
>>> I wasnt on opiates, so if anybody can advise I would appreaciate it.
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>> *From:* junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 15:02
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>>
>>> i came off of 2mg sub with no problems... 23mg/k flood and a booster at
>>> 3 months... worked fine...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>>>
>>> @junkboy how long were you on sub for? did you be far away from sub
>>> prior to Ibogaine/Iboga? if folks are getting withdrawals even from a short
>>> acting opiate such as MScontin/Zamorph even by being clean for 24 hours
>>> post-Iboga-Ibogaine then how is one going to cope from sub (which is a long
>>> acting opiate)
 duting Iboga trip and after?
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>> *From:* junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012, 2:44
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>>
>>> i got down to 2mg a day of sub and one flood with a booster at 3 months
>>> did it for me.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:56 PM, star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>  well, he was on 8 mg for two years, then he got off two weeks
 and did
>>> ibogaine hcl flood... he was good for 5 months but relapsed when his
>>> older left his sub out when he was living here, After he relapsed he was
>>> taking about 4 mg a day for a couple months, maybe 3 and did another flood,
>>> he has been clean for about 6 months.  He works out a lot and completely
>>> changed his diet. His older brother who is still on sub like you has been
>>> taking it  about 6 years of 6-8 mg daily, YUK, he wants to get off but he
>>> is working full-time and has big payments.  HONESTLY,  i think someone else
>>> can probably answer this question better.  I am thinking he is going to
>>> have to go to short acting opiate for aT LEAST ONE MONTH.  I am not
>>> familiar with zamorph, or gapacetine.  So you are on 1 mg of sub??  is that
>>> right, how
 long??  Did you have trouble cutting down,  my son's both tried
>>> cutting down and just could not do it??  Anyway someone else may have more
>>> information for you!!  Good Luck!!
>>>
>>> peace,  Star
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 09:45:53 +0000
>>> From: donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk
>>>
>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>>
>>> Hi Star, I've been on sub for 6 years and counting, would that make a
>>> difference? I think it will but would 2 weeks being off sub prior to
>>> Ibogaine make any major
 difference?  I have valium and zamorph, also
>>> codeine too. I also have Gapacentine dont know if that works similar to
>>> Lyrica.. Am already on 0.5/1mg of sub..
>>>
>>> How long was your son on sub?
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>> *From:* star ray <earthshealing at hotmail.com>
>>> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, 2 January 2012, 4:02
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>>
>>>  try to get down to 2 to 3 mg sub daily....for at least a month before
>>> you go on short acting opiates like vicoprophen and valium helps loads not
>>> a lot of valium though
 maybe 10 mg when in worst withdrawal from sub  which
>>> would maybe be on day 3 to 6.  Get off the valium at least 3 days before
>>> treatment.  Also Lyrica helps with nerve pain  for a day or two only during
>>> worse withdrawals from sub.  My understanding is that you should be off sub
>>> for AT LEAST two weeks before doing the flood but of course more time would
>>> be better.... this worked for my son. ALSO Benadryl blocks all nausea, it
>>> is amazing as I did a couple floods to reduce hcv viral load and nothing
>>> worked for nausea but BENADRYL, I could not believe it, it was a miracle,
>>> only 25 mg for 125 lbs, so may need two if heavier... it blocks some
>>> receptors in stomach that prevents nausea..... anyway, you gotta be off the
>>> sub at a minimum of two weeks but how long have you been on
 sub????
>>>
>>> Good luck,  Star
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:58:22 -0700
>>> From: junkboy64 at gmail.com
>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subutex & Iboga/Ibogaine
>>>
>>> sub is nasty... id switch to something, anything else, for as long as
>>> possible. a month plus!!!
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Donny Drake <donnydrake18 at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hello!
>>>
>>> I wish to ask couple of questios on Mindvox regarding Ibogaine
 and
>>> Subutex/Suboxone/Buprenorphine. Am pretty new to the Ibogaine/Ibogs scene
>>> and do not know how to go about posting on Mindvox..
>>>
>>> I wish to ask all memebers what is the standard protocol of
>>> Iboga/Ibogaine in order to detox from Subutex.
>>>
>>> I have been taking Subutex for 6 years and am on 0.5 currently. I wish
>>> to use Ibogaine but do not know how to go about it. I have morphine time
>>> release (Zomorph or MScontin) and was wondering if I can use that to step
>>> off from Subutex prior to Ibogaine/Iboga.
>>>
>>> Are there any people here who have detoxed from sub using Ibogaine? if
>>> so how did it go for you..Did you still get withdrawals or these PAWS
>>> afterwards? what is the best way on going about detoxing from sub using
>>> Iboga..I've been
 told it's difficult with even with Ibogaine so I iwish to
>>> read peoples experiences and opinions about this.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> D.
>>>
>>>
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Message: 30
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:38:31 +1100
From: "Andrew" <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzodiazepines
Message-ID:
 <BAY167-DS132B17B357EF6A6687A7C9FE9F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello all, the only thing I really know with this issue is that Clare Wilkins at Pangea Biomedics treats Benzo Dependencies as some might know I am tapering still.Alas I'm in Aus but have been in communication via Skype with Clare for around 3 years.She has helped me tremendously and definitely treats people with Benzo issues.
She herself was an addict to Xanny bars amongst other drugs.This is no secret as you can find on her site and YouTube.




From: jeff goldstein 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:37 AM
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzodiazepines


hello ibocommuninity.Any recent
 information re ibogaine's efficacy in treating benzodiazepine dependence? 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Message: 31
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 18:19:49 -0800
From: Diboga SanFilippo <diboga4 at gmail.com>
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <CAK7_Ajnwf9gHN+yLifqz-bW7ojbh5jssNbm5PgckwxUR09KKgA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

*Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox Treatment
*...*<http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun...
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Message: 32
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:28:17 -0500
From: Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <CAAxLk=RqWHRUSvWN2gC02AJRS1nQ=ffZH-mC-GKVU=2rrgkWNw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

not the first bogus provider and it won't be the last. I had a horrible
experience on Mexico.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga SanFilippo <diboga4 at gmail.com>wrote:

> *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox Treatment *...*<http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
> http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun...
>
>
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Message: 33
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:32:48 +0100
From: "Sara Glatt" <sara119 at xs4all.nl>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <501b96ef87da1a1bb6017e545976b555.squirrel at webmail.xs4all.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

> *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox Treatment
> *...*<http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
> http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun...
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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This is bullshit!  what is underground, when everybody knows? what is unethical?
most of the people who have died during the treatment died in a medical facility.







------------------------------

Message: 34
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 09:46:22 +0200
From: "Kevin Walker" <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za>
To: "'The Ibogaine List'" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical "Underground" Ibogaine
    Detox    Treatment Centers
Message-ID: <009601ccd1c7$71f069e0$55d13da0$@co.za>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Sara, 

I don't think it is entire bullshit as you have claimed! I think on this
very platform we have discussed this before, you claim that most deaths have
been those that have been done in clinic's. Yes death has occurred in
clinic's and we all aware of them, as they are recorded deaths, what about
all those that are unrecorded the underground, those done in the bush etc
etc. I personally have heard of a treatment done in a motel and when things
got out of hand the so called provider just left the patient /client and
disassociated themselves to the events
 around that.
I think that there are many more deaths than those that have been recorded,
these have been over looked and or discounted due to a so called secondary
event.

Come on lets deal with the real world !

Regards.

-----Original Message-----
From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On
Behalf Of Sara Glatt
Sent: 13 January 2012 09:33
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical "Underground" Ibogaine Detox
Treatment Centers

> *Transitions* | *Unethical* "Underground" Ibogaine Detox Treatment
>
*...*<http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%
E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm
_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ib
ogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
> http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-"undergroun...
>
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>


This is bullshit!  what is underground, when everybody knows? what is
unethical?
most of the people who have died during the treatment died in a
 medical
facility.






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------------------------------

Message: 35
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:15:41 -0500
From: sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID: <D247D77C-29D7-4FF0-B636-C11B86F2FF7D at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I had to read this article twice and still got nothing.  For all I know the guy didn't like the food?  More information would of been helpful.  Nothing is said other then this guy is not in the Medical field?  So what happen that was terribly wrong?   Did he have a heart attack, resp. problems?  what?  did he just feel lethargy or never been thru wd before and has no idea what he did get?

All I got from this article is that This Beau guy is not in the medical field.  Something went wrong  but not willing to share what it was?  So much NOT said.  What I don't understand is why post such a negative article without anything of substance other then this guy is not working with Solo?  For all I know Dr Solo wrote this himself
 and just angry that another client got by him without paying 7500 to the doctor.

I am not saying the Doctor does not have the right to charge whatever he wants.  After all one does not go to medical school all those yrs to make minimal wage.  But really... what went wrong, what happen,  WHy did this guy need to go to the hospital?  IT says nothing but slander in my eyes.

I do think that someone in the medical field needs to be present during the experience.  After all, the sooner one recognizes that someone is not compensating well, the sooner one acts the better the chances for the client.  For all I know this person came to Iboga straight from Methadone or suboxone, or lied to the provider about pass hx, lied about what meds he was on.  Just no way to tell since so little was told of WHAT happen.  So I think the article is crap.

We all have our choices to make.  NO one puts a gun to
 your head to participate in this experience.  NO one held a gun to this persons head saying " NO, you cant pay 7000 in stead of 3000 to a Non medical, non MD."  If its important that a MD be present then pay for it.  Your choice.
Also when one treats in MX, it is not underground.  I have heard some terrible stories but no proof that it ever really happen.  I have heard that providers are cutting benzo doses in half and claiming that Iboga will take one thru Benzo detox safely.  I have heard that there are providers doing dope or addicted themselves as they provide after care to clients or worse providing tx themselves.  BUt have I seen this... NOPE.  I have even heard that there are providers out there that sell body parts to the black market when addicts die.  THat one really made me giggle.  I have been told by pass clients that there are folks out there in the UG that are willing to treat three at
 once.... really, how can you watch three at once?  

I have seen clients come to Iboga and walk away gaining wt the first week after they receive this treatment, no WD symptoms but because they didn't walk away feeling like they did pre addiction say it didn't work.  Forget the fact that the addiction began 30yrs prior.  Some actually think they are gonna feel like they are in their 20s when the spend from 20 to 50yrs of age doing dope going from the couch to chair for 30ys?   So again... what information did this article give anyone other then Beau is not in the Medical field?  Most providers I know are not in the Medical field.  I don't think Sarah is a RN or LPN but I do believe she offers a safe and complete treatment.  Not that I went there but so many have.  I have had clients lie to me about their hx... not mentioning that they are on Tegrotal or dilantin for a life time condition of seizures..fear it
 would knock them out of the treatment but then complain ......really folks, we are working with a group of folks that hon
esty is something that has been lost.  I for one did not mention to Rocky that I had MS in fear it would knock me out of the running.  

It is so important to talk\research the provider you choose.  Ask what they did\do for a living prior and what medical training they may or may not have.  Be sure that MONEY is not why you choose them but you choose them because you feel safe, they know what they are doing, talk to others they  have treated.  IF someone claims to be a RN, Lpn, practitioner, MD, mid wife or what ever google them, be sure they actually have a Medical license, where they attended Collage.  So easy to do.  Every one that has ever had or have a license it so easy to find on the net.  IF its not there then I bet they don't have it and never has had it.  I know
 that anyone can look up my credentials.  I have given my RN license number out for them to look up on the net.  I went two yrs pre medical... that did not make me a MD or even close to one.

I am not saying the only quantified providers are in the medical field.  I have worked with MDs that I would not let swab my dogs throat, Nurses that miss the boat when it comes to any assessment skills.  I have heard folks that went to one semester and claim to be in the medical field.    I have read on this forum those that are providing and not know how to treat a low bld pressure or even what a resting BP\heart rate looks like. I also know that there are "clinics" that don't have a medical person with\in two miles of the clinic when the actual treatment is taken place but claim to have MDs working for the place.  The word CLinic does not mean what we are use to in the good ole USA.  That word is use very
 loosely.  That word does not mean a medical environment.  For me.. when I went for my treatment I could of cared less if I saw a MD.  I could of cared less that my providers had no medical background.  What I did expect was that my provider not be addicted to dope themsel
ves.  Provide me with the safest they were able.  I could of care less if I died during the treatment, It would of been more humane then the slow death I was experiencing at my own hand.  I paid for my after care.  Sasha and Jessica were my aftercare providers and I was very well taken care of.  Sasha really stepped up to the plate when it came to food, Jessica was very in tune to my depression and gave me the time I needed to voice it.  Rocky, Mary and Christ checked my BP more then I felt it was needed but they knew more then I did at the time... I felt very safe during my process for sure.  I paid for it, it wasn't
 free.  It was my own fault that I didn't get boosters, I didn't do enough research.

So to those looking for a qualified provider... do your research.  Ask for numbers of those that they have treated.  Talk to more then one.  I can write a beautiful testimony on how Sister treated me... even if I am Sister.  LOL  get the picture?  That old saying "you get what you pay for" I find so true.  I feel I did pay the price for a real clinic, a MD present but even without all of that I did walk away knowing that I had a chance to remain clean, if I choose too.  I still had a lot of work to do to help myself feel better.  I had severe lethargy, chills/sweats and depression.  I had to do the work myself to get thru this stage.  Iboga did not make me grow up overnight either.  Another thing I had to work thru. 


So... that article told me shit.  Told me that the person went for
 the cheapest he/she could find and wanted Iboga to fix everything as many of us addicts do.  As addicts, we blame others for our choices, we want to take every shortcut there is avail.  We do NOT want to suffer emotional or physical discomforts.  I know this because I am a Addict and every addict I ever met has the same qualities.
To me... that article sounds like a disgruntle client.  Went for the cheapest tx he could find then not happy with the outcome.  For all I know this person expected to feel how he did before his addiction began that could of been 30yrs prior.  Never been thru CT or even a slow wean of his dope.  Has no idea what being dope sick feels like.  I am not taken up for thie Beau either.  I don't know, never met nor have I done any research on him.  Could be a person that had no intention of getting clean but only wanted to lower his tolerance so they could continue to dope on for
 less money.  I see the article as pure slander.

Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.

On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com> wrote:

> not the first bogus provider and it won't be the last. I had a horrible experience on Mexico.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga SanFilippo <diboga4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox Treatment ...
> http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-?undergroun...
> 
> 
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> 
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Message: 36
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 09:35:42 -0800
From: cbava108 at gmail.com
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <CABg8pxD1M1tFCzCqVoFKOW_k-6nywmEfQwc56K6OJ_70MKzd_Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

If you read it twice it should've been clear that the post wasn't authored
by a "client" but by another clinic who received a call from the patient's
wife asking for advice. Why would you expect this clinic to know what went
wrong at Transitions? And what in the post led you to believe the
 "patient"
was looking for an inexpensive treatment? I believe Transitions charges
$7500 per treatment, that doesn't seem cheap. Why would you consider the
post slanderous?

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:15 AM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I had to read this article twice and still got nothing.  For all I know
> the guy didn't like the food?  More information would of been helpful.
>  Nothing is said other then this guy is not in the Medical field?  So what
> happen that was terribly wrong?   Did he have a heart attack, resp.
> problems?  what?  did he just feel lethargy or never been thru wd before
> and has no idea what he did get?
>
> All I got from this article is that This Beau guy is not in the medical
> field.  Something went wrong  but
 not willing to share what it was?  So
> much NOT said.  What I don't understand is why post such a negative article
> without anything of substance other then this guy is not working with Solo?
>  For all I know Dr Solo wrote this himself and just angry that another
> client got by him without paying 7500 to the doctor.
>
> I am not saying the Doctor does not have the right to charge whatever he
> wants.  After all one does not go to medical school all those yrs to make
> minimal wage.  But really... what went wrong, what happen,  WHy did this
> guy need to go to the hospital?  IT says nothing but slander in my eyes.
>
> I do think that someone in the medical field needs to be present during
> the experience.  After all, the sooner one recognizes that someone is not
> compensating well, the sooner one acts the better the chances for
 the
> client.  For all I know this person came to Iboga straight from Methadone
> or suboxone, or lied to the provider about pass hx, lied about what meds he
> was on.  Just no way to tell since so little was told of WHAT happen.  So I
> think the article is crap.
>
> We all have our choices to make.  NO one puts a gun to your head to
> participate in this experience.  NO one held a gun to this persons head
> saying " NO, you cant pay 7000 in stead of 3000 to a Non medical, non MD."
>  If its important that a MD be present then pay for it.  Your choice.
> Also when one treats in MX, it is not underground.  I have heard some
> terrible stories but no proof that it ever really happen.  I have heard
> that providers are cutting benzo doses in half and claiming that Iboga will
> take one thru Benzo detox safely.  I have heard that
 there are providers
> doing dope or addicted themselves as they provide after care to clients or
> worse providing tx themselves.  BUt have I seen this... NOPE.  I have even
> heard that there are providers out there that sell body parts to the black
> market when addicts die.  THat one really made me giggle.  I have been told
> by pass clients that there are folks out there in the UG that are willing
> to treat three at once.... really, how can you watch three at once?
>
> I have seen clients come to Iboga and walk away gaining wt the first week
> after they receive this treatment, no WD symptoms but because they didn't
> walk away feeling like they did pre addiction say it didn't work.  Forget
> the fact that the addiction began 30yrs prior.  Some actually think they
> are gonna feel like they are in their 20s when the spend from 20 to 50yrs
>
 of age doing dope going from the couch to chair for 30ys?   So again...
> what information did this article give anyone other then Beau is not in the
> Medical field?  Most providers I know are not in the Medical field.  I
> don't think Sarah is a RN or LPN but I do believe she offers a safe and
> complete treatment.  Not that I went there but so many have.  I have had
> clients lie to me about their hx... not mentioning that they are on
> Tegrotal or dilantin for a life time condition of seizures..fear it would
> knock them out of the treatment but then complain ......really folks, we
> are working with a group of folks that honesty is something that has been
> lost.  I for one did not mention to Rocky that I had MS in fear it would
> knock me out of the running.
>
> It is so important to talk\research the provider you choose.  Ask what
>
 they did\do for a living prior and what medical training they may or may
> not have.  Be sure that MONEY is not why you choose them but you choose
> them because you feel safe, they know what they are doing, talk to others
> they  have treated.  IF someone claims to be a RN, Lpn, practitioner, MD,
> mid wife or what ever google them, be sure they actually have a Medical
> license, where they attended Collage.  So easy to do.  Every one that has
> ever had or have a license it so easy to find on the net.  IF its not there
> then I bet they don't have it and never has had it.  I know that anyone can
> look up my credentials.  I have given my RN license number out for them to
> look up on the net.  I went two yrs pre medical... that did not make me a
> MD or even close to one.
>
> I am not saying the only quantified providers are in the
 medical field.  I
> have worked with MDs that I would not let swab my dogs throat, Nurses that
> miss the boat when it comes to any assessment skills.  I have heard folks
> that went to one semester and claim to be in the medical field.    I have
> read on this forum those that are providing and not know how to treat a low
> bld pressure or even what a resting BP\heart rate looks like. I also know
> that there are "clinics" that don't have a medical person with\in two miles
> of the clinic when the actual treatment is taken place but claim to have
> MDs working for the place.  The word CLinic does not mean what we are use
> to in the good ole USA.  That word is use very loosely.  That word does not
> mean a medical environment.  For me.. when I went for my treatment I could
> of cared less if I saw a MD.  I could of cared less that my providers
 had
> no medical background.  What I did expect was that my provider not be
> addicted to dope themselves.  Provide me with the safest they were able.  I
> could of care less if I died during the treatment, It would of been more
> humane then the slow death I was experiencing at my own hand.  I paid for
> my after care.  Sasha and Jessica were my aftercare providers and I was
> very well taken care of.  Sasha really stepped up to the plate when it came
> to food, Jessica was very in tune to my depression and gave me the time I
> needed to voice it.  Rocky, Mary and Christ checked my BP more then I felt
> it was needed but they knew more then I did at the time... I felt very safe
> during my process for sure.  I paid for it, it wasn't free.  It was my own
> fault that I didn't get boosters, I didn't do enough research.
>
> So to
 those looking for a qualified provider... do your research.  Ask for
> numbers of those that they have treated.  Talk to more then one.  I can
> write a beautiful testimony on how Sister treated me... even if I am
> Sister.  LOL  get the picture?  That old saying "you get what you pay for"
> I find so true.  I feel I did pay the price for a real clinic, a MD present
> but even without all of that I did walk away knowing that I had a chance to
> remain clean, if I choose too.  I still had a lot of work to do to help
> myself feel better.  I had severe lethargy, chills/sweats and depression.
>  I had to do the work myself to get thru this stage.  Iboga did not make me
> grow up overnight either.  Another thing I had to work thru.
>
>
> So... that article told me shit.  Told me that the person went for the
>
 cheapest he/she could find and wanted Iboga to fix everything as many of us
> addicts do.  As addicts, we blame others for our choices, we want to take
> every shortcut there is avail.  We do NOT want to suffer emotional or
> physical discomforts.  I know this because I am a Addict and every addict I
> ever met has the same qualities.
> To me... that article sounds like a disgruntle client.  Went for the
> cheapest tx he could find then not happy with the outcome.  For all I know
> this person expected to feel how he did before his addiction began that
> could of been 30yrs prior.  Never been thru CT or even a slow wean of his
> dope.  Has no idea what being dope sick feels like.  I am not taken up for
> thie Beau either.  I don't know, never met nor have I done any research on
> him.  Could be a person that had no intention of getting
 clean but only
> wanted to lower his tolerance so they could continue to dope on for less
> money.  I see the article as pure slander.
>
> Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.
>
> On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> not the first bogus provider and it won't be the last. I had a horrible
> experience on Mexico.
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga SanFilippo < <diboga4 at gmail.com>
> diboga4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox Treatment *...*<http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
>>  <http://myibogaine.com/2012/>http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*
>> unethical*-?undergroun...
>>
>>
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------------------------------

Message: 37
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:39:34 -0700
From: Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID: <4F106C56.1060509 at mtciep.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

amazing $7500...didn't know that Chris

thanks

___________________
Edward
edwardw at mtciep.com





On 1/13/2012 10:35 AM, cbava108 at gmail.com wrote:
> If you read it twice it should've been clear that the post wasn't 
> authored by a "client" but by another clinic who received a call from 
> the patient's wife asking for advice. Why would you expect this clinic 
> to know what went wrong at Transitions? And what in the post led you 
> to believe the "patient" was looking for an inexpensive treatment? I 
> believe Transitions charges $7500 per treatment, that doesn't seem 
> cheap.
 Why would you consider the post slanderous?
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:15 AM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:sistereboga at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     I had to read this article twice and still got nothing.  For all I
>     know the guy didn't like the food?  More information would of been
>     helpful.  Nothing is said other then this guy is not in the
>     Medical field?  So what happen that was terribly wrong?   Did he
>     have a heart attack, resp. problems?  what?  did he just feel
>     lethargy or never been thru wd before and has no idea what he did get?
>
>     All I got from this
 article is that This Beau guy is not in the
>     medical field.  Something went wrong  but not willing to share
>     what it was?  So much NOT said.  What I don't understand is why
>     post such a negative article without anything of substance other
>     then this guy is not working with Solo?  For all I know Dr Solo
>     wrote this himself and just angry that another client got by him
>     without paying 7500 to the doctor.
>
>     I am not saying the Doctor does not have the right to charge
>     whatever he wants.  After all one does not go to medical school
>     all those yrs to make minimal wage.  But really... what went
>     wrong, what happen,  WHy did this guy need to go to the hospital?
>      IT says nothing but
 slander in my eyes.
>
>     I do think that someone in the medical field needs to be present
>     during the experience.  After all, the sooner one recognizes that
>     someone is not compensating well, the sooner one acts the better
>     the chances for the client.  For all I know this person came to
>     Iboga straight from Methadone or suboxone, or lied to the provider
>     about pass hx, lied about what meds he was on.  Just no way to
>     tell since so little was told of WHAT happen.  So I think the
>     article is crap.
>
>     We all have our choices to make.  NO one puts a gun to your head
>     to participate in this experience.  NO one held a gun to this
>     persons head saying " NO, you cant pay 7000 in stead of 3000 to
 a
>     Non medical, non MD."  If its important that a MD be present then
>     pay for it.  Your choice.
>     Also when one treats in MX, it is not underground.  I have heard
>     some terrible stories but no proof that it ever really happen.  I
>     have heard that providers are cutting benzo doses in half and
>     claiming that Iboga will take one thru Benzo detox safely.  I have
>     heard that there are providers doing dope or addicted themselves
>     as they provide after care to clients or worse providing tx
>     themselves.  BUt have I seen this... NOPE.  I have even heard that
>     there are providers out there that sell body parts to the black
>     market when addicts die.  THat one really made me giggle.  I
 have
>     been told by pass clients that there are folks out there in the UG
>     that are willing to treat three at once.... really, how can you
>     watch three at once?
>
>     I have seen clients come to Iboga and walk away gaining wt the
>     first week after they receive this treatment, no WD symptoms but
>     because they didn't walk away feeling like they did pre addiction
>     say it didn't work.  Forget the fact that the addiction began
>     30yrs prior.  Some actually think they are gonna feel like they
>     are in their 20s when the spend from 20 to 50yrs of age doing dope
>     going from the couch to chair for 30ys?   So again... what
>     information did this article give anyone other then Beau is not in
>     the
 Medical field?  Most providers I know are not in the Medical
>     field.  I don't think Sarah is a RN or LPN but I do believe she
>     offers a safe and complete treatment.  Not that I went there but
>     so many have.  I have had clients lie to me about their hx... not
>     mentioning that they are on Tegrotal or dilantin for a life time
>     condition of seizures..fear it would knock them out of the
>     treatment but then complain ......really folks, we are working
>     with a group of folks that honesty is something that has been
>     lost.  I for one did not mention to Rocky that I had MS in fear it
>     would knock me out of the running.
>
>     It is so important to talk\research the provider you choose.  Ask
>     what they
 did\do for a living prior and what medical training they
>     may or may not have.  Be sure that MONEY is not why you choose
>     them but you choose them because you feel safe, they know what
>     they are doing, talk to others they  have treated.  IF someone
>     claims to be a RN, Lpn, practitioner, MD, mid wife or what ever
>     google them, be sure they actually have a Medical license, where
>     they attended Collage.  So easy to do.  Every one that has ever
>     had or have a license it so easy to find on the net.  IF its not
>     there then I bet they don't have it and never has had it.  I know
>     that anyone can look up my credentials.  I have given my RN
>     license number out for them to look up on the net.  I went two
 yrs
>     pre medical... that did not make me a MD or even close to one.
>
>     I am not saying the only quantified providers are in the medical
>     field.  I have worked with MDs that I would not let swab my dogs
>     throat, Nurses that miss the boat when it comes to any assessment
>     skills.  I have heard folks that went to one semester and claim to
>     be in the medical field.    I have read on this forum those that
>     are providing and not know how to treat a low bld pressure or even
>     what a resting BP\heart rate looks like. I also know that there
>     are "clinics" that don't have a medical person with\in two miles
>     of the clinic when the actual treatment is taken place but claim
>     to have MDs working for the place. 
 The word CLinic does not mean
>     what we are use to in the good ole USA.  That word is use very
>     loosely.  That word does not mean a medical environment.  For me..
>     when I went for my treatment I could of cared less if I saw a MD.
>      I could of cared less that my providers had no medical
>     background.  What I did expect was that my provider not be
>     addicted to dope themselves.  Provide me with the safest they were
>     able.  I could of care less if I died during the treatment, It
>     would of been more humane then the slow death I was experiencing
>     at my own hand.  I paid for my after care.  Sasha and Jessica were
>     my aftercare providers and I was very well taken care of.  Sasha
>     really
 stepped up to the plate when it came to food, Jessica was
>     very in tune to my depression and gave me the time I needed to
>     voice it.  Rocky, Mary and Christ checked my BP more then I felt
>     it was needed but they knew more then I did at the time... I felt
>     very safe during my process for sure.  I paid for it, it wasn't
>     free.  It was my own fault that I didn't get boosters, I didn't do
>     enough research.
>
>     So to those looking for a qualified provider... do your research.
>      Ask for numbers of those that they have treated.  Talk to more
>     then one.  I can write a beautiful testimony on how Sister treated
>     me... even if I am Sister.  LOL  get the picture?  That old saying
>     "you get
 what you pay for" I find so true.  I feel I did pay the
>     price for a real clinic, a MD present but even without all of that
>     I did walk away knowing that I had a chance to remain clean, if I
>     choose too.  I still had a lot of work to do to help myself feel
>     better.  I had severe lethargy, chills/sweats and depression.  I
>     had to do the work myself to get thru this stage.  Iboga did not
>     make me grow up overnight either.  Another thing I had to work thru.
>
>
>     So... that article told me shit.  Told me that the person went for
>     the cheapest he/she could find and wanted Iboga to fix everything
>     as many of us addicts do.  As addicts, we blame others for our
>     choices, we want to take every shortcut
 there is avail.  We do NOT
>     want to suffer emotional or physical discomforts.  I know this
>     because I am a Addict and every addict I ever met has the same
>     qualities.
>     To me... that article sounds like a disgruntle client.  Went for
>     the cheapest tx he could find then not happy with the outcome.
>      For all I know this person expected to feel how he did before his
>     addiction began that could of been 30yrs prior.  Never been thru
>     CT or even a slow wean of his dope.  Has no idea what being dope
>     sick feels like.  I am not taken up for thie Beau either.  I don't
>     know, never met nor have I done any research on him.  Could be a
>     person that had no intention of getting clean but only
 wanted to
>     lower his tolerance so they could continue to dope on for less
>     money.  I see the article as pure slander.
>
>     Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.
>
>     On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:emma04406 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>     not the first bogus provider and it won't be the last. I had a
>>     horrible experience on Mexico.
>>
>>     On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga SanFilippo
>>     <diboga4 at gmail.com <mailto:diboga4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
>>         Treatment *...*
>>         <http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
>>        http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun...
>>
>>
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------------------------------

Message: 38
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:04:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <1326477870.15898.YahooMailNeo at web84008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

7500 and no MD present??? Really??? And how did the client not know this before hand?? Still... what went so wrong?? Nothing said on that mark?? So... if authorized by the client, why not share the whole story?



>________________________________
>From: Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox Treatment Centers
>
>amazing $7500...didn't know that Chris
>
>thanks
>
>___________________
>Edward
>edwardw at mtciep.com
>
>
>
>
>
>On 1/13/2012 10:35 AM, cbava108 at gmail.com wrote:
>> If you read it twice it should've been clear that the post wasn't 
>> authored by a "client" but by another clinic who received a call from 
>> the patient's wife asking for advice. Why
 would you expect this clinic 
>> to know what went wrong at Transitions? And what in the post led you 
>> to believe the "patient" was looking for an inexpensive treatment? I 
>> believe Transitions charges $7500 per treatment, that doesn't seem 
>> cheap. Why would you consider the post slanderous?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:15 AM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com 
>> <mailto:sistereboga at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>
>>? ? I had to read this article twice and still got nothing.? For all I
>>? ? know the guy didn't like the food?? More information would of been
>>? ? helpful.? Nothing is said other then this guy is not in the
>>? ? Medical field?? So what happen that was terribly
 wrong?? Did he
>>? ? have a heart attack, resp. problems?? what?? did he just feel
>>? ? lethargy or never been thru wd before and has no idea what he did get?
>>
>>? ? All I got from this article is that This Beau guy is not in the
>>? ? medical field.? Something went wrong? but not willing to share
>>? ? what it was?? So much NOT said.? What I don't understand is why
>>? ? post such a negative article without anything of substance other
>>? ? then this guy is not working with Solo?? For all I know Dr Solo
>>? ? wrote this himself and just angry that another client got by him
>>? ? without paying 7500 to the doctor.
>>
>>? ? I am not saying the Doctor does not have the right to charge
>>? ? whatever he wants.? After all one does not go to medical school
>>? ? all those yrs to make minimal wage.? But really... what
 went
>>? ? wrong, what happen,? WHy did this guy need to go to the hospital?
>>? ? ? IT says nothing but slander in my eyes.
>>
>>? ? I do think that someone in the medical field needs to be present
>>? ? during the experience.? After all, the sooner one recognizes that
>>? ? someone is not compensating well, the sooner one acts the better
>>? ? the chances for the client.? For all I know this person came to
>>? ? Iboga straight from Methadone or suboxone, or lied to the provider
>>? ? about pass hx, lied about what meds he was on.? Just no way to
>>? ? tell since so little was told of WHAT happen.? So I think the
>>? ? article is crap.
>>
>>? ? We all have our choices to make.? NO one puts a gun to your head
>>? ? to participate in this experience.? NO one held a gun to this
>>? ? persons head saying " NO, you cant pay
 7000 in stead of 3000 to a
>>? ? Non medical, non MD."? If its important that a MD be present then
>>? ? pay for it.? Your choice.
>>? ? Also when one treats in MX, it is not underground.? I have heard
>>? ? some terrible stories but no proof that it ever really happen.? I
>>? ? have heard that providers are cutting benzo doses in half and
>>? ? claiming that Iboga will take one thru Benzo detox safely.? I have
>>? ? heard that there are providers doing dope or addicted themselves
>>? ? as they provide after care to clients or worse providing tx
>>? ? themselves.? BUt have I seen this... NOPE.? I have even heard that
>>? ? there are providers out there that sell body parts to the black
>>? ? market when addicts die.? THat one really made me giggle.? I have
>>? ? been told by pass clients that there are folks out there in the UG
>>? ? that
 are willing to treat three at once.... really, how can you
>>? ? watch three at once?
>>
>>? ? I have seen clients come to Iboga and walk away gaining wt the
>>? ? first week after they receive this treatment, no WD symptoms but
>>? ? because they didn't walk away feeling like they did pre addiction
>>? ? say it didn't work.? Forget the fact that the addiction began
>>? ? 30yrs prior.? Some actually think they are gonna feel like they
>>? ? are in their 20s when the spend from 20 to 50yrs of age doing dope
>>? ? going from the couch to chair for 30ys?? So again... what
>>? ? information did this article give anyone other then Beau is not in
>>? ? the Medical field?? Most providers I know are not in the Medical
>>? ? field.? I don't think Sarah is a RN or LPN but I do believe she
>>? ? offers a safe and complete treatment.? Not that I went
 there but
>>? ? so many have.? I have had clients lie to me about their hx... not
>>? ? mentioning that they are on Tegrotal or dilantin for a life time
>>? ? condition of seizures..fear it would knock them out of the
>>? ? treatment but then complain ......really folks, we are working
>>? ? with a group of folks that honesty is something that has been
>>? ? lost.? I for one did not mention to Rocky that I had MS in fear it
>>? ? would knock me out of the running.
>>
>>? ? It is so important to talk\research the provider you choose.? Ask
>>? ? what they did\do for a living prior and what medical training they
>>? ? may or may not have.? Be sure that MONEY is not why you choose
>>? ? them but you choose them because you feel safe, they know what
>>? ? they are doing, talk to others they? have treated.? IF someone
>>? ? claims to
 be a RN, Lpn, practitioner, MD, mid wife or what ever
>>? ? google them, be sure they actually have a Medical license, where
>>? ? they attended Collage.? So easy to do.? Every one that has ever
>>? ? had or have a license it so easy to find on the net.? IF its not
>>? ? there then I bet they don't have it and never has had it.? I know
>>? ? that anyone can look up my credentials.? I have given my RN
>>? ? license number out for them to look up on the net.? I went two yrs
>>? ? pre medical... that did not make me a MD or even close to one.
>>
>>? ? I am not saying the only quantified providers are in the medical
>>? ? field.? I have worked with MDs that I would not let swab my dogs
>>? ? throat, Nurses that miss the boat when it comes to any assessment
>>? ? skills.? I have heard folks that went to one semester and claim to
>>? ? be in
 the medical field.? ? I have read on this forum those that
>>? ? are providing and not know how to treat a low bld pressure or even
>>? ? what a resting BP\heart rate looks like. I also know that there
>>? ? are "clinics" that don't have a medical person with\in two miles
>>? ? of the clinic when the actual treatment is taken place but claim
>>? ? to have MDs working for the place.? The word CLinic does not mean
>>? ? what we are use to in the good ole USA.? That word is use very
>>? ? loosely.? That word does not mean a medical environment.? For me..
>>? ? when I went for my treatment I could of cared less if I saw a MD.
>>? ? ? I could of cared less that my providers had no medical
>>? ? background.? What I did expect was that my provider not be
>>? ? addicted to dope themselves.? Provide me with the safest they were
>>? ? able.? I could of care
 less if I died during the treatment, It
>>? ? would of been more humane then the slow death I was experiencing
>>? ? at my own hand.? I paid for my after care.? Sasha and Jessica were
>>? ? my aftercare providers and I was very well taken care of.? Sasha
>>? ? really stepped up to the plate when it came to food, Jessica was
>>? ? very in tune to my depression and gave me the time I needed to
>>? ? voice it.? Rocky, Mary and Christ checked my BP more then I felt
>>? ? it was needed but they knew more then I did at the time... I felt
>>? ? very safe during my process for sure.? I paid for it, it wasn't
>>? ? free.? It was my own fault that I didn't get boosters, I didn't do
>>? ? enough research.
>>
>>? ? So to those looking for a qualified provider... do your research.
>>? ? ? Ask for numbers of those that they have treated.? Talk to
 more
>>? ? then one.? I can write a beautiful testimony on how Sister treated
>>? ? me... even if I am Sister.? LOL? get the picture?? That old saying
>>? ? "you get what you pay for" I find so true.? I feel I did pay the
>>? ? price for a real clinic, a MD present but even without all of that
>>? ? I did walk away knowing that I had a chance to remain clean, if I
>>? ? choose too.? I still had a lot of work to do to help myself feel
>>? ? better.? I had severe lethargy, chills/sweats and depression.? I
>>? ? had to do the work myself to get thru this stage.? Iboga did not
>>? ? make me grow up overnight either.? Another thing I had to work thru.
>>
>>
>>? ? So... that article told me shit.? Told me that the person went for
>>? ? the cheapest he/she could find and wanted Iboga to fix everything
>>? ? as many of us addicts do.? As
 addicts, we blame others for our
>>? ? choices, we want to take every shortcut there is avail.? We do NOT
>>? ? want to suffer emotional or physical discomforts.? I know this
>>? ? because I am a Addict and every addict I ever met has the same
>>? ? qualities.
>>? ? To me... that article sounds like a disgruntle client.? Went for
>>? ? the cheapest tx he could find then not happy with the outcome.
>>? ? ? For all I know this person expected to feel how he did before his
>>? ? addiction began that could of been 30yrs prior.? Never been thru
>>? ? CT or even a slow wean of his dope.? Has no idea what being dope
>>? ? sick feels like.? I am not taken up for thie Beau either.? I don't
>>? ? know, never met nor have I done any research on him.? Could be a
>>? ? person that had no intention of getting clean but only wanted to
>>? ? lower his
 tolerance so they could continue to dope on for less
>>? ? money.? I see the article as pure slander.
>>
>>? ? Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.
>>
>>? ? On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com
>>? ? <mailto:emma04406 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>? ? not the first bogus provider and it won't be the last. I had a
>>>? ? horrible experience on Mexico.
>>>
>>>? ? On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga SanFilippo
>>>? ? <diboga4 at gmail.com <mailto:diboga4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>? ? ? ? *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
>>>? ? ? ? Treatment *...*
>>>? ? ? ? <http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
>>>? ? ? ? http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun...
>>>
>>>
>>>? ? ? ? ?
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>>
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------------------------------

Message: 39
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:15:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <1326478553.42920.YahooMailNeo at web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

CB.... I guess I see it as slander when no information
 is given.? what went wrong?? Did anything really go wrong.? Is all this only hearsay?



>________________________________
>From: Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox Treatment Centers
>
>amazing $7500...didn't know that Chris
>
>thanks
>
>___________________
>Edward
>edwardw at mtciep.com
>
>
>
>
>
>On 1/13/2012 10:35 AM, cbava108 at gmail.com wrote:
>> If
 you read it twice it should've been clear that the post wasn't 
>> authored by a "client" but by another clinic who received a call from 
>> the patient's wife asking for advice. Why would you expect this clinic 
>> to know what went wrong at Transitions? And what in the post led you 
>> to believe the "patient" was looking for an inexpensive treatment? I 
>> believe Transitions charges $7500 per treatment, that doesn't seem 
>> cheap. Why would you consider the post slanderous?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:15 AM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com 
>> <mailto:sistereboga at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>
>>? ? I had to read this article twice and still got nothing.? For all I
>>? ? know
 the guy didn't like the food?? More information would of been
>>? ? helpful.? Nothing is said other then this guy is not in the
>>? ? Medical field?? So what happen that was terribly wrong?? Did he
>>? ? have a heart attack, resp. problems?? what?? did he just feel
>>? ? lethargy or never been thru wd before and has no idea what he did get?
>>
>>? ? All I got from this article is that This Beau guy is not in the
>>? ? medical field.? Something went wrong? but not willing to share
>>? ? what it was?? So much NOT said.? What I don't understand is why
>>? ? post such a negative article without anything of substance other
>>? ? then this guy is not working with Solo?? For all I know Dr Solo
>>? ? wrote this himself and just angry that another client got by him
>>? ? without paying 7500 to the doctor.
>>
>>? ? I am not saying the
 Doctor does not have the right to charge
>>? ? whatever he wants.? After all one does not go to medical school
>>? ? all those yrs to make minimal wage.? But really... what went
>>? ? wrong, what happen,? WHy did this guy need to go to the hospital?
>>? ? ? IT says nothing but slander in my eyes.
>>
>>? ? I do think that someone in the medical field needs to be present
>>? ? during the experience.? After all, the sooner one recognizes that
>>? ? someone is not compensating well, the sooner one acts the better
>>? ? the chances for the client.? For all I know this person came to
>>? ? Iboga straight from Methadone or suboxone, or lied to the provider
>>? ? about pass hx, lied about what meds he was on.? Just no way to
>>? ? tell since so little was told of WHAT happen.? So I think the
>>? ? article is crap.
>>
>>? ? We
 all have our choices to make.? NO one puts a gun to your head
>>? ? to participate in this experience.? NO one held a gun to this
>>? ? persons head saying " NO, you cant pay 7000 in stead of 3000 to a
>>? ? Non medical, non MD."? If its important that a MD be present then
>>? ? pay for it.? Your choice.
>>? ? Also when one treats in MX, it is not underground.? I have heard
>>? ? some terrible stories but no proof that it ever really happen.? I
>>? ? have heard that providers are cutting benzo doses in half and
>>? ? claiming that Iboga will take one thru Benzo detox safely.? I have
>>? ? heard that there are providers doing dope or addicted themselves
>>? ? as they provide after care to clients or worse providing tx
>>? ? themselves.? BUt have I seen this... NOPE.? I have even heard that
>>? ? there are providers out there that sell body parts to
 the black
>>? ? market when addicts die.? THat one really made me giggle.? I have
>>? ? been told by pass clients that there are folks out there in the UG
>>? ? that are willing to treat three at once.... really, how can you
>>? ? watch three at once?
>>
>>? ? I have seen clients come to Iboga and walk away gaining wt the
>>? ? first week after they receive this treatment, no WD symptoms but
>>? ? because they didn't walk away feeling like they did pre addiction
>>? ? say it didn't work.? Forget the fact that the addiction began
>>? ? 30yrs prior.? Some actually think they are gonna feel like they
>>? ? are in their 20s when the spend from 20 to 50yrs of age doing dope
>>? ? going from the couch to chair for 30ys?? So again... what
>>? ? information did this article give anyone other then Beau is not in
>>? ? the Medical field??
 Most providers I know are not in the Medical
>>? ? field.? I don't think Sarah is a RN or LPN but I do believe she
>>? ? offers a safe and complete treatment.? Not that I went there but
>>? ? so many have.? I have had clients lie to me about their hx... not
>>? ? mentioning that they are on Tegrotal or dilantin for a life time
>>? ? condition of seizures..fear it would knock them out of the
>>? ? treatment but then complain ......really folks, we are working
>>? ? with a group of folks that honesty is something that has been
>>? ? lost.? I for one did not mention to Rocky that I had MS in fear it
>>? ? would knock me out of the running.
>>
>>? ? It is so important to talk\research the provider you choose.? Ask
>>? ? what they did\do for a living prior and what medical training they
>>? ? may or may not have.? Be sure that MONEY is not why
 you choose
>>? ? them but you choose them because you feel safe, they know what
>>? ? they are doing, talk to others they? have treated.? IF someone
>>? ? claims to be a RN, Lpn, practitioner, MD, mid wife or what ever
>>? ? google them, be sure they actually have a Medical license, where
>>? ? they attended Collage.? So easy to do.? Every one that has ever
>>? ? had or have a license it so easy to find on the net.? IF its not
>>? ? there then I bet they don't have it and never has had it.? I know
>>? ? that anyone can look up my credentials.? I have given my RN
>>? ? license number out for them to look up on the net.? I went two yrs
>>? ? pre medical... that did not make me a MD or even close to one.
>>
>>? ? I am not saying the only quantified providers are in the medical
>>? ? field.? I have worked with MDs that I would not let swab my
 dogs
>>? ? throat, Nurses that miss the boat when it comes to any assessment
>>? ? skills.? I have heard folks that went to one semester and claim to
>>? ? be in the medical field.? ? I have read on this forum those that
>>? ? are providing and not know how to treat a low bld pressure or even
>>? ? what a resting BP\heart rate looks like. I also know that there
>>? ? are "clinics" that don't have a medical person with\in two miles
>>? ? of the clinic when the actual treatment is taken place but claim
>>? ? to have MDs working for the place.? The word CLinic does not mean
>>? ? what we are use to in the good ole USA.? That word is use very
>>? ? loosely.? That word does not mean a medical environment.? For me..
>>? ? when I went for my treatment I could of cared less if I saw a MD.
>>? ? ? I could of cared less that my providers had no
 medical
>>? ? background.? What I did expect was that my provider not be
>>? ? addicted to dope themselves.? Provide me with the safest they were
>>? ? able.? I could of care less if I died during the treatment, It
>>? ? would of been more humane then the slow death I was experiencing
>>? ? at my own hand.? I paid for my after care.? Sasha and Jessica were
>>? ? my aftercare providers and I was very well taken care of.? Sasha
>>? ? really stepped up to the plate when it came to food, Jessica was
>>? ? very in tune to my depression and gave me the time I needed to
>>? ? voice it.? Rocky, Mary and Christ checked my BP more then I felt
>>? ? it was needed but they knew more then I did at the time... I felt
>>? ? very safe during my process for sure.? I paid for it, it wasn't
>>? ? free.? It was my own fault that I didn't get boosters, I didn't
 do
>>? ? enough research.
>>
>>? ? So to those looking for a qualified provider... do your research.
>>? ? ? Ask for numbers of those that they have treated.? Talk to more
>>? ? then one.? I can write a beautiful testimony on how Sister treated
>>? ? me... even if I am Sister.? LOL? get the picture?? That old saying
>>? ? "you get what you pay for" I find so true.? I feel I did pay the
>>? ? price for a real clinic, a MD present but even without all of that
>>? ? I did walk away knowing that I had a chance to remain clean, if I
>>? ? choose too.? I still had a lot of work to do to help myself feel
>>? ? better.? I had severe lethargy, chills/sweats and depression.? I
>>? ? had to do the work myself to get thru this stage.? Iboga did not
>>? ? make me grow up overnight either.? Another thing I had to work
 thru.
>>
>>
>>? ? So... that article told me shit.? Told me that the person went for
>>? ? the cheapest he/she could find and wanted Iboga to fix everything
>>? ? as many of us addicts do.? As addicts, we blame others for our
>>? ? choices, we want to take every shortcut there is avail.? We do NOT
>>? ? want to suffer emotional or physical discomforts.? I know this
>>? ? because I am a Addict and every addict I ever met has the same
>>? ? qualities.
>>? ? To me... that article sounds like a disgruntle client.? Went for
>>? ? the cheapest tx he could find then not happy with the outcome.
>>? ? ? For all I know this person expected to feel how he did before his
>>? ? addiction began that could of been 30yrs prior.? Never been thru
>>? ? CT or even a slow wean of his dope.? Has no idea what being dope
>>? ? sick feels
 like.? I am not taken up for thie Beau either.? I don't
>>? ? know, never met nor have I done any research on him.? Could be a
>>? ? person that had no intention of getting clean but only wanted to
>>? ? lower his tolerance so they could continue to dope on for less
>>? ? money.? I see the article as pure slander.
>>
>>? ? Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.
>>
>>? ? On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com
>>? ? <mailto:emma04406 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>? ? not the first bogus provider and it won't be the last. I had a
>>>? ? horrible experience on Mexico.
>>>
>>>? ? On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga
 SanFilippo
>>>? ? <diboga4 at gmail.com <mailto:diboga4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>? ? ? ? *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
>>>? ? ? ? Treatment *...*
>>>? ? ? ? <http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers>
>>>? ? ? ? http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun...
>>>
>>>
>>>? ? ? ? ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>? ? ? ? (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>>>? ? ? ? ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>? ? ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands :::::::
 (]=-
>>>? ? (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>>>? ? ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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>>
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------------------------------

Message: 40
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 11:01:11 -0800
From: cbava108 at gmail.com
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
 Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <CABg8pxBDFPFgtq4xNCSwdqF_sBnDzCM+Zxh4NRV74tGRUqXwDQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Purportedly Transitions *is *a medical facility, my point is, how would the
folks who received the frantic call from the wife know what went wrong?
Apparently, the people who were called are in Cancun and the client was
dropped at the San Ysidro point of entry, how would they know what went
wrong?  Beau Mason isn't a provider he's the financing behind Transitions
and otherwise a salesman making remote referrals from the US.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:

> CB.... I guess I see it as slander when no information is given.  what
> went wrong?  Did anything really go wrong.  Is all this only hearsay?
>
>   *From:* Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2012 12:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
> Detox Treatment Centers
>
> amazing $7500...didn't know that Chris
>
> thanks
>
> ___________________
> Edward
> edwardw at mtciep.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/13/2012 10:35 AM, cbava108 at gmail.com wrote:
> > If you read it twice it should've been clear that the post wasn't
> > authored by a "client" but by another clinic who received a call from
> > the patient's wife asking for advice. Why would you expect this clinic
> > to know what went wrong at Transitions? And what in the post led you
> > to believe the "patient" was looking for an inexpensive treatment? I
> > believe Transitions charges $7500 per treatment, that doesn't seem
> > cheap. Why would you consider the post slanderous?
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:15 AM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com
>
 > <mailto:sistereboga at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> >
> >    I had to read this article twice and still got nothing.  For all I
> >    know the guy didn't like the food?  More information would of been
> >    helpful.  Nothing is said other then this guy is not in the
> >    Medical field?  So what happen that was terribly wrong?  Did he
> >    have a heart attack, resp. problems?  what?  did he just feel
> >    lethargy or never been thru wd before and has no idea what he did get?
> >
> >    All I got from this article is that This Beau guy is not in the
> >    medical field.  Something went wrong  but not willing to share
> >    what it
 was?  So much NOT said.  What I don't understand is why
> >    post such a negative article without anything of substance other
> >    then this guy is not working with Solo?  For all I know Dr Solo
> >    wrote this himself and just angry that another client got by him
> >    without paying 7500 to the doctor.
> >
> >    I am not saying the Doctor does not have the right to charge
> >    whatever he wants.  After all one does not go to medical school
> >    all those yrs to make minimal wage.  But really... what went
> >    wrong, what happen,  WHy did this guy need to go to the hospital?
> >      IT says nothing but slander in my eyes.
> >
> >    I do think that someone in the medical field needs to be
 present
> >    during the experience.  After all, the sooner one recognizes that
> >    someone is not compensating well, the sooner one acts the better
> >    the chances for the client.  For all I know this person came to
> >    Iboga straight from Methadone or suboxone, or lied to the provider
> >    about pass hx, lied about what meds he was on.  Just no way to
> >    tell since so little was told of WHAT happen.  So I think the
> >    article is crap.
> >
> >    We all have our choices to make.  NO one puts a gun to your head
> >    to participate in this experience.  NO one held a gun to this
> >    persons head saying " NO, you cant pay 7000 in stead of 3000 to a
> >    Non medical, non MD."  If
 its important that a MD be present then
> >    pay for it.  Your choice.
> >    Also when one treats in MX, it is not underground.  I have heard
> >    some terrible stories but no proof that it ever really happen.  I
> >    have heard that providers are cutting benzo doses in half and
> >    claiming that Iboga will take one thru Benzo detox safely.  I have
> >    heard that there are providers doing dope or addicted themselves
> >    as they provide after care to clients or worse providing tx
> >    themselves.  BUt have I seen this... NOPE.  I have even heard that
> >    there are providers out there that sell body parts to the black
> >    market when addicts die.  THat one really made me giggle.  I have
>   been told by pass clients that there are folks out there in the UG
> >    that are willing to treat three at once.... really, how can you
> >    watch three at once?
> >
> >    I have seen clients come to Iboga and walk away gaining wt the
> >    first week after they receive this treatment, no WD symptoms but
> >    because they didn't walk away feeling like they did pre addiction
> >    say it didn't work.  Forget the fact that the addiction began
> >    30yrs prior.  Some actually think they are gonna feel like they
> >    are in their 20s when the spend from 20 to 50yrs of age doing dope
> >    going from the couch to chair for 30ys?  So again... what
> >    information did this article give anyone other then Beau is not in
>
 >    the Medical field?  Most providers I know are not in the Medical
> >    field.  I don't think Sarah is a RN or LPN but I do believe she
> >    offers a safe and complete treatment.  Not that I went there but
> >    so many have.  I have had clients lie to me about their hx... not
> >    mentioning that they are on Tegrotal or dilantin for a life time
> >    condition of seizures..fear it would knock them out of the
> >    treatment but then complain ......really folks, we are working
> >    with a group of folks that honesty is something that has been
> >    lost.  I for one did not mention to Rocky that I had MS in fear it
> >    would knock me out of the running.
> >
> >    It is so important to talk\research the
 provider you choose.  Ask
> >    what they did\do for a living prior and what medical training they
> >    may or may not have.  Be sure that MONEY is not why you choose
> >    them but you choose them because you feel safe, they know what
> >    they are doing, talk to others they  have treated.  IF someone
> >    claims to be a RN, Lpn, practitioner, MD, mid wife or what ever
> >    google them, be sure they actually have a Medical license, where
> >    they attended Collage.  So easy to do.  Every one that has ever
> >    had or have a license it so easy to find on the net.  IF its not
> >    there then I bet they don't have it and never has had it.  I know
> >    that anyone can look up my credentials.  I have given my
 RN
> >    license number out for them to look up on the net.  I went two yrs
> >    pre medical... that did not make me a MD or even close to one.
> >
> >    I am not saying the only quantified providers are in the medical
> >    field.  I have worked with MDs that I would not let swab my dogs
> >    throat, Nurses that miss the boat when it comes to any assessment
> >    skills.  I have heard folks that went to one semester and claim to
> >    be in the medical field.    I have read on this forum those that
> >    are providing and not know how to treat a low bld pressure or even
> >    what a resting BP\heart rate looks like. I also know that there
> >    are "clinics" that don't have a medical person with\in two miles
>
 >    of the clinic when the actual treatment is taken place but claim
> >    to have MDs working for the place.  The word CLinic does not mean
> >    what we are use to in the good ole USA.  That word is use very
> >    loosely.  That word does not mean a medical environment.  For me..
> >    when I went for my treatment I could of cared less if I saw a MD.
> >      I could of cared less that my providers had no medical
> >    background.  What I did expect was that my provider not be
> >    addicted to dope themselves.  Provide me with the safest they were
> >    able.  I could of care less if I died during the treatment, It
> >    would of been more humane then the slow death I was experiencing
> >    at my own
 hand.  I paid for my after care.  Sasha and Jessica were
> >    my aftercare providers and I was very well taken care of.  Sasha
> >    really stepped up to the plate when it came to food, Jessica was
> >    very in tune to my depression and gave me the time I needed to
> >    voice it.  Rocky, Mary and Christ checked my BP more then I felt
> >    it was needed but they knew more then I did at the time... I felt
> >    very safe during my process for sure.  I paid for it, it wasn't
> >    free.  It was my own fault that I didn't get boosters, I didn't do
> >    enough research.
> >
> >    So to those looking for a qualified provider... do your research.
> >      Ask for numbers of those that they have treated.  Talk to
 more
> >    then one.  I can write a beautiful testimony on how Sister treated
> >    me... even if I am Sister.  LOL  get the picture?  That old saying
> >    "you get what you pay for" I find so true.  I feel I did pay the
> >    price for a real clinic, a MD present but even without all of that
> >    I did walk away knowing that I had a chance to remain clean, if I
> >    choose too.  I still had a lot of work to do to help myself feel
> >    better.  I had severe lethargy, chills/sweats and depression.  I
> >    had to do the work myself to get thru this stage.  Iboga did not
> >    make me grow up overnight either.  Another thing I had to work thru.
> >
> >
> >    So... that article told me
 shit.  Told me that the person went for
> >    the cheapest he/she could find and wanted Iboga to fix everything
> >    as many of us addicts do.  As addicts, we blame others for our
> >    choices, we want to take every shortcut there is avail.  We do NOT
> >    want to suffer emotional or physical discomforts.  I know this
> >    because I am a Addict and every addict I ever met has the same
> >    qualities.
> >    To me... that article sounds like a disgruntle client.  Went for
> >    the cheapest tx he could find then not happy with the outcome.
> >      For all I know this person expected to feel how he did before his
> >    addiction began that could of been 30yrs prior.  Never been thru
> >    CT or even a
 slow wean of his dope.  Has no idea what being dope
> >    sick feels like.  I am not taken up for thie Beau either.  I don't
> >    know, never met nor have I done any research on him.  Could be a
> >    person that had no intention of getting clean but only wanted to
> >    lower his tolerance so they could continue to dope on for less
> >    money.  I see the article as pure slander.
> >
> >    Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.
> >
> >    On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com
> >    <mailto:emma04406 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
>
 >>    not the first bogus provider and it won't be the last. I had a
> >>    horrible experience on Mexico.
> >>
> >>    On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga SanFilippo
> >>    <diboga4 at gmail.com <mailto:diboga4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>        *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
> >>        Treatment *...*
> >>        <
> http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers
> >
> >>        http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun
> ...
> >>
> >>
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------------------------------

Message: 41
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:09:52 -0500
From: Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re:
 [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground? Ibogaine
    Detox Treatment Centers
Message-ID:
    <CAAxLk=RoL29Nm8xAevkmOA38SZhxkHG+MGqH4bTgwU9qQ98q-g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

There is no shame in trying to find inexpensive treatment either. Not
everyone has a lot of money.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM, <cbava108 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Purportedly Transitions *is *a medical facility, my point is, how would
> the folks who received the frantic call from the wife know what went wrong?
> Apparently, the people who were called are in Cancun and the client was
> dropped at the San Ysidro point of entry, how would they know what
 went
> wrong?  Beau Mason isn't a provider he's the financing behind Transitions
> and otherwise a salesman making remote referrals from the US.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> CB.... I guess I see it as slander when no information is given.  what
>> went wrong?  Did anything really go wrong.  Is all this only hearsay?
>>
>>    *From:* Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2012 12:39 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical ?Underground?
 Ibogaine
>> Detox Treatment Centers
>>
>> amazing $7500...didn't know that Chris
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> ___________________
>> Edward
>> edwardw at mtciep.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/13/2012 10:35 AM, cbava108 at gmail.com wrote:
>> > If you read it twice it should've been clear that the post wasn't
>> > authored by a "client" but by another clinic who received a call from
>> > the patient's wife asking for advice. Why would you expect this clinic
>> > to know what went wrong at Transitions? And what in the post led you
>> > to believe the "patient" was looking for an inexpensive treatment? I
>> > believe
 Transitions charges $7500 per treatment, that doesn't seem
>> > cheap. Why would you consider the post slanderous?
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:15 AM, sister <sistereboga at yahoo.com
>> > <mailto:sistereboga at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >    I had to read this article twice and still got nothing.  For all I
>> >    know the guy didn't like the food?  More information would of been
>> >    helpful.  Nothing is said other then this guy is not in the
>> >    Medical field?  So what happen that was terribly wrong?  Did he
>> >    have a heart attack, resp. problems?  what?  did he
 just feel
>> >    lethargy or never been thru wd before and has no idea what he did
>> get?
>> >
>> >    All I got from this article is that This Beau guy is not in the
>> >    medical field.  Something went wrong  but not willing to share
>> >    what it was?  So much NOT said.  What I don't understand is why
>> >    post such a negative article without anything of substance other
>> >    then this guy is not working with Solo?  For all I know Dr Solo
>> >    wrote this himself and just angry that another client got by him
>> >    without paying 7500 to the doctor.
>> >
>> >    I am not saying the Doctor does not have the right to charge
>> >    whatever he wants.  After all
 one does not go to medical school
>> >    all those yrs to make minimal wage.  But really... what went
>> >    wrong, what happen,  WHy did this guy need to go to the hospital?
>> >      IT says nothing but slander in my eyes.
>> >
>> >    I do think that someone in the medical field needs to be present
>> >    during the experience.  After all, the sooner one recognizes that
>> >    someone is not compensating well, the sooner one acts the better
>> >    the chances for the client.  For all I know this person came to
>> >    Iboga straight from Methadone or suboxone, or lied to the provider
>> >    about pass hx, lied about what meds he was on.  Just no way to
>> >    tell since so little was
 told of WHAT happen.  So I think the
>> >    article is crap.
>> >
>> >    We all have our choices to make.  NO one puts a gun to your head
>> >    to participate in this experience.  NO one held a gun to this
>> >    persons head saying " NO, you cant pay 7000 in stead of 3000 to a
>> >    Non medical, non MD."  If its important that a MD be present then
>> >    pay for it.  Your choice.
>> >    Also when one treats in MX, it is not underground.  I have heard
>> >    some terrible stories but no proof that it ever really happen.  I
>> >    have heard that providers are cutting benzo doses in half and
>> >    claiming that Iboga will take one thru Benzo detox safely.  I have
>>
 >    heard that there are providers doing dope or addicted themselves
>> >    as they provide after care to clients or worse providing tx
>> >    themselves.  BUt have I seen this... NOPE.  I have even heard that
>> >    there are providers out there that sell body parts to the black
>> >    market when addicts die.  THat one really made me giggle.  I have
>> >    been told by pass clients that there are folks out there in the UG
>> >    that are willing to treat three at once.... really, how can you
>> >    watch three at once?
>> >
>> >    I have seen clients come to Iboga and walk away gaining wt the
>> >    first week after they receive this treatment, no WD symptoms but
>> >    because
 they didn't walk away feeling like they did pre addiction
>> >    say it didn't work.  Forget the fact that the addiction began
>> >    30yrs prior.  Some actually think they are gonna feel like they
>> >    are in their 20s when the spend from 20 to 50yrs of age doing dope
>> >    going from the couch to chair for 30ys?  So again... what
>> >    information did this article give anyone other then Beau is not in
>> >    the Medical field?  Most providers I know are not in the Medical
>> >    field.  I don't think Sarah is a RN or LPN but I do believe she
>> >    offers a safe and complete treatment.  Not that I went there but
>> >    so many have.  I have had clients lie to me about their hx... not
>>   mentioning that they are on Tegrotal or dilantin for a life time
>> >    condition of seizures..fear it would knock them out of the
>> >    treatment but then complain ......really folks, we are working
>> >    with a group of folks that honesty is something that has been
>> >    lost.  I for one did not mention to Rocky that I had MS in fear it
>> >    would knock me out of the running.
>> >
>> >    It is so important to talk\research the provider you choose.  Ask
>> >    what they did\do for a living prior and what medical training they
>> >    may or may not have.  Be sure that MONEY is not why you choose
>> >    them but you choose them because you feel safe, they know what
>> >    they are doing,
 talk to others they  have treated.  IF someone
>> >    claims to be a RN, Lpn, practitioner, MD, mid wife or what ever
>> >    google them, be sure they actually have a Medical license, where
>> >    they attended Collage.  So easy to do.  Every one that has ever
>> >    had or have a license it so easy to find on the net.  IF its not
>> >    there then I bet they don't have it and never has had it.  I know
>> >    that anyone can look up my credentials.  I have given my RN
>> >    license number out for them to look up on the net.  I went two yrs
>> >    pre medical... that did not make me a MD or even close to one.
>> >
>> >    I am not saying the only quantified providers are in the medical
>>
 >    field.  I have worked with MDs that I would not let swab my dogs
>> >    throat, Nurses that miss the boat when it comes to any assessment
>> >    skills.  I have heard folks that went to one semester and claim to
>> >    be in the medical field.    I have read on this forum those that
>> >    are providing and not know how to treat a low bld pressure or even
>> >    what a resting BP\heart rate looks like. I also know that there
>> >    are "clinics" that don't have a medical person with\in two miles
>> >    of the clinic when the actual treatment is taken place but claim
>> >    to have MDs working for the place.  The word CLinic does not mean
>> >    what we are use to in the good ole USA.  That word is use
 very
>> >    loosely.  That word does not mean a medical environment.  For me..
>> >    when I went for my treatment I could of cared less if I saw a MD.
>> >      I could of cared less that my providers had no medical
>> >    background.  What I did expect was that my provider not be
>> >    addicted to dope themselves.  Provide me with the safest they were
>> >    able.  I could of care less if I died during the treatment, It
>> >    would of been more humane then the slow death I was experiencing
>> >    at my own hand.  I paid for my after care.  Sasha and Jessica were
>> >    my aftercare providers and I was very well taken care of.  Sasha
>> >    really stepped up to the plate when it
 came to food, Jessica was
>> >    very in tune to my depression and gave me the time I needed to
>> >    voice it.  Rocky, Mary and Christ checked my BP more then I felt
>> >    it was needed but they knew more then I did at the time... I felt
>> >    very safe during my process for sure.  I paid for it, it wasn't
>> >    free.  It was my own fault that I didn't get boosters, I didn't do
>> >    enough research.
>> >
>> >    So to those looking for a qualified provider... do your research.
>> >      Ask for numbers of those that they have treated.  Talk to more
>> >    then one.  I can write a beautiful testimony on how Sister treated
>> >    me... even if I am Sister.  LOL  get the
 picture?  That old saying
>> >    "you get what you pay for" I find so true.  I feel I did pay the
>> >    price for a real clinic, a MD present but even without all of that
>> >    I did walk away knowing that I had a chance to remain clean, if I
>> >    choose too.  I still had a lot of work to do to help myself feel
>> >    better.  I had severe lethargy, chills/sweats and depression.  I
>> >    had to do the work myself to get thru this stage.  Iboga did not
>> >    make me grow up overnight either.  Another thing I had to work thru.
>> >
>> >
>> >    So... that article told me shit.  Told me that the person went for
>> >    the cheapest he/she could find and wanted Iboga to fix
 everything
>> >    as many of us addicts do.  As addicts, we blame others for our
>> >    choices, we want to take every shortcut there is avail.  We do NOT
>> >    want to suffer emotional or physical discomforts.  I know this
>> >    because I am a Addict and every addict I ever met has the same
>> >    qualities.
>> >    To me... that article sounds like a disgruntle client.  Went for
>> >    the cheapest tx he could find then not happy with the outcome.
>> >      For all I know this person expected to feel how he did before his
>> >    addiction began that could of been 30yrs prior.  Never been thru
>> >    CT or even a slow wean of his dope.  Has no idea what being dope
>>   sick feels like.  I am not taken up for thie Beau either.  I don't
>> >    know, never met nor have I done any research on him.  Could be a
>> >    person that had no intention of getting clean but only wanted to
>> >    lower his tolerance so they could continue to dope on for less
>> >    money.  I see the article as pure slander.
>> >
>> >    Sent by someone who missed way too many English classes.
>> >
>> >    On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:28 PM, Emma Sachs <emma04406 at gmail.com
>> >    <mailto:emma04406 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>    not the first bogus
 provider and it won't be the last. I had a
>> >>    horrible experience on Mexico.
>> >>
>> >>    On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Diboga SanFilippo
>> >>    <diboga4 at gmail.com <mailto:diboga4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>        *Transitions* | *Unethical* ?Underground? Ibogaine Detox
>> >>        Treatment *...*
>> >>        <
>> http://myibogaine.com/2012/transitions-unethical-%E2%80%9Cunderground%E2%80%9D-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transitions-unethical-%25e2%2580%259cunderground%25e2%2580%259d-ibogaine-detox-treatment-centers
>> >
>> >>
>> http://myibogaine.com/2012/*transitions*-*unethical*-?undergroun...
>> >>
>> >>
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