[Ibogaine] OT Transitions | Unethical “Undergroun d� Ibogaine Detox Treatment Ce nters

Jim Hadey3 jimhadey3 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 17 16:54:02 EST 2012


Hi Peter,

The whole thing about sex is it should be consensual.  Drunk and passed out
or in the middle of an Ibo Exp does not count as consensual as does those
on roofies.  LSD and DMDA or pot can be consensual.  As far as pedagogy
goes it means:

 ped·a·go·gy. noun \ˈpe-də-ˌgō-jē also -ˌgä-, especially British -ˌgä-gē\. *
Definition* of *PEDAGOGY*. : the art, science, or profession of teaching;
especially *...*

are you sure your not thinking of pedophile or date rape?  What if the guy
was gay and like to stick it to the fellas when they were out and you were
one of the fellas he stuck it too - how would you feel??   I have no idea
what he did for I was not there but you act like it is not big deal - it is
a big deal.

  - JIM



On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Sara Glatt <sara119 at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> >why should you care, he is your hero, right? if you had a daughter you
> may want her to enjoy some of this stuff
> promoted by your hero. it is not your ass after all.
>
> anyway, if death is not reported then how do you know? someone told you
> that in secret? did somebody
>  told you that their loved one did not return from a treatment?
>
>
>
> Marc Emery: A Class Act
>
> August 14, 2005 · By Peter Rempel
>
> Lest my last post on Marc Emery be construed as a wholesale defense of the
> man, allow me to re-post some thoughts from
> the Prince of Virtue on the relationship between drugs and gettin’ some.
> Turns out Emery has a real pedagogical side
> to him. Unfortunately it’s restricted to, “‘How I Got Laid” (via the
> invaluable Kate McMillan)
>
>    Drugs that are good for women to enjoy & heighten the sex act:
>
>    #1 2C-B. This will,make her an incredible sucking, vibrating, bouncing,
> pleasure seeking fiend for 4 – 5 hours
> straight. Absolutely 100% goddamn right. ITs a single-ring amphetamine
> molecule related to MDMA, its a
> phenylathelamine, but goes right to a woman’s ‘F**K CENTRAL CORTEX’. Its
> awe inspriring. We should put it in their
> food. Daily.
>
>    #2 Alcohol. Except for 2C-B, this is still the working class reliable
> for lubricating a woman’s desire, libido and
> willingness.
>
>    #3 Hashish. Good hashish makes women more able to have orgasm, more of
> them and more exciting ones.
>
>    #4 Cocaine. If you want to f**k her ass, this is ‘deriguer’ (fancy
> french meaning the girl has GOT to have it)
>
> .
>
>
>  OT but I don't really care if Marc likes anal sex, that would be him and
> 100's of millions of other people. Same for
> > taking drugs and having sex. Who cares, why is that your business.
> > He's got flaws but he's also done a lot of good. Saying he's messed up
> at times is like peeps saying you've done same,
> > including unreported deaths over the years. That true, partially true,
> not true at all. Thing is I don't really care,
> > I think you mean well and help a lot of people. Same way I feel about
> Marc Emery. Unlike the OP I don't know you or
> > him, I just hear about the results of your work and see the results of
> his all around me where I live. Marc doesn't
> > blow all his cash on himself, he sends it to whoever needs it. If he's
> got a huge pumped up ego, then he should get
> > out of prison and start treating people with ibo again ASAP, he's a
> perfect fit.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Sara Glatt <sara119 at xs4all.nl>
> > To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical “Undergroun
> d� Ibogaine Detox Treatment Ce  nters
> >
> >> first of all it was a private letter to Marc and not the the rest of
> the world, but he could not keep it private.
> > It is NOT a hate fest, it meant to be a private matter.by right now he
> has more nasty letters from people who have
> > been abused and insulted by him and Jodie, for NO reason at all.NOT
> everyone loves them.
> > why? this is why, and it is not the only reason.
> > His character assassination of mine here, lies and abuse.
> >
> > "Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation.
> It may involve exaggeration, misleading
> > half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of
> the targeted person. It is a form of
> > defamation."
> >
> > For living individuals targeted by character assassination attempts,
> this may result in being rejected by his
> > community, family, or members of his or her living or work environment.
> Such acts are often difficult to reverse or
> > rectify, and the process is likened to a literal assassination of a
> human life. The damage sustained can last a
> > lifetime."
> >
> >
> > Marc abused someone who has been on this list for as many years as you
> V. and maybe even longer.
> > someone who got treated in Iboga therapy house when Marc was
> "administrating" the iboga via Sandra for free.
> > a person who I admire and love, and who got a remote treatment from me,
> since it did not work for him in Canada,
> > coming off 100mg of methadone with a single dose which obviously did not
> work,  and who has a bit of a brain damage
> > and will not speak up for the injustice done to him By Marc "the prince
> of pot", the mental harassment the
> > brainwashing to return something for the "free" treatment were over the
> TOP.you only see the PRO propaganda but can't
> > see the damage, damaged people have no energy to speak up. anyway if you
> wish to ask me something personal I prefer
> > that you it in private.
> >
> > beside,Marc is a pervert who would drug women to fuck them up their ass
> and spread his sexual preference openly
> > online, which drug can help which sexual act? who admitted to be
> cheating on his wives and girlfriends. when money is
> > the most important religion these days, people look up to him no matter
> what.
> >
> > well,I do not expect an apology, not from a "prince". but for sure  all
> those who wrote support letters to Marc have
> > no idea who he really is.
> >
> >
> > Sara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't understand parts of what you're talking about but mostly agree
> with the 90% I think I got.
> >> The ibo hatefest often featuring the treatment providers has always
> been the way it is right now that I know about,
> >> at
> >> least since 2001 is documented on mindvox.
> >> On the subject of ibogaine providers I have a lot of respect for you
> Sara, we used to talk in email back when I just
> >> graduated hs and was going to college. I think you're a awesome healer
> that helps people some of the time and vent
> >> like crazy at other times.
> >>
> >> You've had a huge injustice in the nl happen for you, which is screwing
> up your life and may make ibo a scheduled
> >> substance there. Why do you need to write Marc Emery hate mail for
> Christmas in prison? What part of love and
> >> healing
> >> is that about. I know you two argued a lot, all over this list in fact.
> Why kick a person who does a lot of good
> >> things when they're down. You disagreed or had a fight, it's that
> important to stay petty after all those years?
> >>
> >> http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/blogs/marc
> >>
> >> Marc Emery's Blog
> >> Christmas Prison Blog: It's A Wonderful Life
> >> Saturday, December 24 2011
> >> TAGS: BLOG CHRISTMAS MARC EMERY MISSISSIPPI PRISON USA
> >>
> >> I hope each of my correspondents that receive a letter from me know
> it’s personalized, detailed and completely
> >> original and unique to that person's questions, comments and life
> story. I have received letters from Australia,
> >> Norway, Iceland, Germany, Poland, Belgium, Indonesia, Peru, the
> Philippines, Finland, Russia, Costa Rica, South
> >> Africa, the United Kingdom, Norway, but most come from the United
> States, then Canada. The only negative or hateful
> >> letter I have received is from Sara Glatt in Amsterdam, a woman I once
> gave $4,000 (in 2004) to help her get her
> >> ibogaine hospice off the ground again after she was raided by police.
> That brings to mind the phrase 'no good deed
> >> shall go unpunished'. She's been ungrateful and vindictive ever since!
> She wrote me here at Yazoo to say I "deserve
> >> to
> >> rot in jail". Whew! Glad it’s just one nasty letter out of 3,000.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>Â  From: David Ray <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
> >> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:24 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Transitions | Unethical “Undergroun dâ€
>  Ibogaine Detox Treatment Centers
> >>
> >> I got an extremely detailed and well informed criticism of what I said
> >> (rather abusively, but largely to the point) earlier on this listing
> >> and I am posting my response to that post.  That may seem a bit
> >> unfair, but it would not be right of me to post what they said against
> >> their will, however I have suggested that they post what they sent to
> >> me as I think it is exactly what should be said on a site like
> >> mindvox.  In Australia the internet is pretty much the only source of
> >> information about ibogaine.  Despite bits and pieces of great value
> >> mindvox is mainly poor or misleading information.
> >>
> >> Hi, Thanks for the information.
> >> I guess it comes from the fact that sites like mindvox are so
> >> appalling. You give a largely rational criticism of the
> >> warning(although there are many personal prejudices also apparent),
> >> but the other criticisms were uninformed ranting.  They make none of
> >> the points you make.  They appear entirely unaware of them and
> >> criticise purely on the basis that it is wrong to criticise any
> >> provider.  There are dangerous providers.  Where is information about
> >> these providers to come from if not sites like this?  I was directed
> >> to the ibogaine survivors group by X (I've deleted the name from this
> >> copy of the post as I don't want to possibly damage them by
> >> association with me).  There are good bits to learn there, but mainly
> >> it is a support group, not an information site.  However, X lives in
> >> the area and knows the providers in the area and via previous posts of
> >> him/her I have come to trust what X says.  I trust his/her criticism.
> >> It is a fact that there was no criticism of the warning on the basis
> >> of anything other than straight conjecture.  Mexican's take money from
> >> those who can pay.  I couldn't care less about that.  I only care that
> >> they provide the service they take the money for.  The only way I can
> >> find out if they do that is on the basis of personal recommendation.
> >> Mindvox is largely appalling, but it is also the first point of call
> >> for many people.  And going back to the start when people like Howard
> >> Lotsof was posting on it regularly it provided good information
> >> amongst all the drivel.  Despite all these years, nearly all the
> >> valuable information I've found online has come from Howard Lotsof and
> >> his collaborators, from Dana Beal (despite idiosyncracies), from Mr.
> >> Krupa (despite massive idiosyncracies) and from Deborah Mash, and
> >> various scientific research papers. I know Howard and Deborah went to
> >> war over patents.  I'm indifferent to that.  They both had rights
> >> based on the work they put in.  Krupa's posts are of particular value
> >> because they criticise.  They say - that may or may not work. They
> >> also say, as Howard does - I know this much, but any more than this -
> >> I only say what I am sure about.   I also have a major concern
> >> inasmuch as I personally want to use this drug for addiction
> >> interruption but its uniqueness and its various modes of action mean
> >> that the drug or its metabolites and derivates could have vast
> >> applications, for post traumatic stress, for severe depression, for
> >> chronic pain, and many others.  In many ways its use for addiction
> >> treatment pushes researchers away from it.  I have one doctor I've
> >> written to in australia that I knew well many years ago and is now
> >> senior advisor to the Victorian government on addiction medicine. I've
> >> been looking for places to direct him on the web with follow up
> >> information.  False advertising and drivel make up 90%.
> >> I can't endlessly waste my time on this.  I would happy for you to
> >> post your criticism of me on mindvox.  This is the ONLY rational
> >> criticism I have read of that warning.  I stand 100% by my comments
> >> regarding the other criticisms and their inbred self-protecting
> >> behaviour.  Further, to complain about people providing a good quality
> >> service and charging heaps for it, but to say that you don't care
> >> about someone harming ill-informed junkies - that is utterly
> >> despicable.  And goes to the very heart of my criticism.  Screaming
> >> abuse has been part of mindvox ibo from the beginning. Go back to the
> >> start and have a look.  It is also the source of some of the very best
> >> information.   And it is part of the process that points out the
> >> irrational morons and brings out rational and well thought out
> >> responses, like what you gave me.  This is exactly what should be on
> >> mindvox.  I could be like you and simply write off mindvox, or I could
> >> try to improve it.  Or, which is probably nearer the truth, I could
> >> just vent  a bit of my disgust at some of the providers who seem to
> >> want ibogaine to remain underground, rather than becoming further
> >> medicalised and thus becoming safer. They shouldn't worry - it won't
> >> wipe out the underground providers (by your definition, which I don't
> >> accept, or any other), there will still be those looking for spiritual
> >> enlightenment that won't be acceptable to the medical streams.  In
> >> mainstream medicine the numbers who could get treatment would be
> >> massively increased therefore the benefit would be massively
> >> increased. Contrary to what many people would say, this is occurring
> >> now, albeit slowly.
> >>
> >> I will post this response on mindvox.  I would like you to post your
> >> criticism of me as well, but that is your choice.  However, what you
> >> have said would be massively useful. I would not have made the
> >> comments I did if I had read a detailed and rational criticism of this
> >> kind.  My criticism is because I read nothing of this quality.  I
> >> don't care about the way that it is critical of me.  I don't care if
> >> it puts me in the black book of some providers.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
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