[Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how itfeels post flood

Andrew sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 9 21:30:08 EST 2012

Hello Jim.,

Yep ya got that damn straight 

According to the "Ashton Method" I use as a framework for coming off Benzo's, I should be clear and free as a bird well and truly by now!!!
Then again this method is supposedly "the pick" but is still way outdated and I don't believe there is a "One Size Fits All" solution to the life we have been given.BTW XANAX has been labeled "Worse than Heroin" and there is a book of the same name.
The road we travel is a personal journey specifically tailored for each of us in my belief (and many other's).
There is no right or wrong way,just the way.
I have watched Methadonia and High on Crack Street amongst many others, so I do understand the plight of those on Methadone.
My heart goes out to all who are fighting for their lives with this BS.
I also watched Detox or Die which is absolutely brilliant.
GenerationRx,Making a Killing and those Big Pharma doco's are excellent and absolutely true!
Bear in mind that I'm 41 now and was prescribed Xanax for "Panic Disorder" in 2003,so a lot of things have happened since then.Learning in 2007 that the drug I was on had been known to be extremely addictive after as little as 3 weeks use and would eventually reach a "cap" of therapeutic dose efficacy since to late 50's is what turned my sails!!!...I was like WTF!!!???...why does my GP keep putting the doses up when it aint gong to do JACK from here on?
I learned a lot fast and educated my GP,now he's a Benzo-Wise Doctor and very proud of my progress.We are really good mates now after all this and I have his full support which many don't have from their Doc's.Sometimes you just have to take control, as it is YOUR life in their hands.
Remind them of this,it's the first line in their Oath 

There are so many contributing factors to everyone's story that really,in essence,one must really learn to appreciate this fact before one can move forward....just think of the scene in The Matrix where Neo gets out of the car and what Trinity says.....

I do realise that Ibogaine is not usually used for Benzo's as it is for Opiates, but one thing we all have in common is that we do "know where that road goes" and we "have made a choice already".I'm extremely humbled and overjoyed to be part of MindVox as I know that here,no matter whether it's Cocaine,Speed,Heroin or Pharmaceuticals,we are all searching for ourselves again.
The ride I have chosen with this withdrawal has slowly unfolded on many levels and taught me through pain and determination a hell of a lot to put it mildly....if I had a dollar for every time a GP or so called specialist has said "It shouldn't take that long...I've seen people come off them quicker" LOL...I have met some of those that have and man, they are just in another mess,just not the one they were in.
I chose the road less travelled and will be far richer for the experience...an experience I will pay back to others in the same position.
It is my duty of care and also part of my wonderful story.

For myslef, like Aya,Tryptamines and Amanita showed me in pieces of a puzzle if you will, Ibo is part of my path to work out "why I made the choice" 
To put things in persective,as someone said: "Last time I checked,we all have an expiration date!".
I'll be damned if I don't nut this out before that comes around 

I don't expect Ibo to do anything more than what I put in,but it is on my path, as I am a warrior,teacher,student and a healer at heart. It will happen when the boat arrives and the boat always arrives on time 

The world we live in is supposed to be crazy,not us....this I see IS the true nature of things.
This is where the "Big Pharma,Big X-factor" comes in as I see it.
There are definitely Elite and they know only power,lust and greed.They also know the mechanics behind the human race.
We have Love,Compassion,the ability for Reason,Forgiveness and a sense of Unity.These "Types" have none of these attributes and so place us in useful positions(to them) with the aid of these addictive drugs.
If you were heartless and lazy,wouldn't you?
Some are to dumb us down to slow our natural progression,some to improve production like ants with a dozen beers after work to put us back again and some deemed illicit,yet reasonably tolerated,so we think we are getting away with it and need these drugs.So we take more and the seeking becomes the addiction.
Very clever design,but flawed by nature if analyzed in this light.
The very things they try to instill in some of us use fear based tactics as their only tool. 
This is why there is an arbitrary scale for punishable and allowable drug use.
Is it any wonder that right now the Military troops from Afghanistan are speaking out and don't want war?
Is it any wonder that Opium production which,when the US was working trade deals out for Oil,was nearly Zero as compared to post "False-Flag" 911 which are now up 75%?!....The US needs that Heroin!!
Not to mention the prescription drug side of things and the huge profits and pay-offs everyone gets for passing this crap down the line.
Yes it's all about money.

I would strongly recommend anyone who seeks the road of healing, to watch(even rewatch) The Matrix Trilogy and the Animatrix,then watch Kymatica,then "Philosophy and The Matrix".

Umm and please remember to help fight Chevron by donating whatever you can afford to help save the Amazon, via Amazonwatch.Every dollar counts,and they are counting on us as much as we have on them.

Thanks for the replies,comments and the chance to speak.

The catch-cry from our home-grown Aussie hip-hop dudes,Bliss and Esso goes out to you guys.... "Peace,Love and Unity" 

Take care my new friends, we will win.


From: Jim Hadey3 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:57 AM
To: The Ibogaine List 
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how itfeels post flood

Hello Andrew,

Seems like you do not have much trust in the drug companies.  Just a day or two ago I looked up Methadone and oh man you got to read it to believe it.  It says an addict uses heroin then switches over to Methadone where they can get a correct dose of quality pharmaceutical medicine.  Then when stable they can detox at the rate of 5 to 10mg per week.  Oh come on 5 to 10 mg per week - no way.

Everyone who tried Methadone has said it is harder to quit than most anything except sub.  It was much like a infomercial only you read it.  Now here is the part where ya got to pay attention:  It says it may be a two or three year program.  OK if you can detox at 5 mg a week and you start with less than 100mg you should be off in a year, Right?? That's the math.  Seems like it has not been updated since 1969 or so.


  - JIM 

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:08 PM, David Ray <trees.and.rain at gmail.com> wrote:

  Thanks all, Faith in particular.  I took a test dose of 250mg TA a few
  weeks back as I was concerned about going overseas and finding that I
  couldn't tolerate Ibo, an allergic reaction or vomitted it up, in
  which case I would have been in real trouble.  I assumed that this
  dose was high enough to be a good test, but low enough to not have any
  significant effect. However, after a few hours, it did begin to have
  an effect.  A little like mushrooms or LSD, but it felt almost like an
  animal presence inside me.  The next day still getting a bit of
  peripheral visual distortion.  Funny dreams for a few days.  And for a
  few hours there was the vaguely insightful dreaming I've read about.
  But for the week that followed I could still feel its presence inside
  me, which is why I asked the question.  I like to be prepared.  This
  tells me that I cannot be prepared, but obviously what I want is
  something pretty dramatic, so I guess I just need to be ready to hold
  on for the ride.  Lots of very helpful information.  Thanks again.

  On 08/01/2012, Andrew <sanpedro.69 at hotmail.com> wrote:
  > Hi David,I'm in Oz too and coming off long-term,high-dose Benzo's atm and
  > lowering my Alc intake too which are both minimal now.
  > I ramped the intake and strength(as I home-brew) down slowly as I have the
  > Benzo's as I was on 6mg Xan a day and drinking to blackout stages...I'm
  > lucky to have survived.Alcohol goes really well with Xanax....in the
  > beginning ;)
  > I too am looking at resetting soon,as my addiction was "Accidental"...well
  > basically I was prescribed Xanax and went through the stages of rapid
  > dependence and tolerance to quite a high dose before I instigated the taper
  > withdrawal over to Valium and I'm nearly at the sticky end after 4 years
  > detoxing....yes it's a long time I know,but everyone is different in this
  > respect.I want full functionality back and there have been many setbacks
  > along this path.I take it only now to abate symptoms as I reduce,not because
  > I get high.It's all pain.
  > I just read the responses as well as your post and I can say that T.Iboga
  > plants are available as well as seeds from www.herbalistics.com.au , as is
  > Kanna.
  > Darren is a top bloke and will look after you and he told me recently he has
  > seedlings growing now, as you will see there is none in stock atm. I was a
  > member of an ethnobotany forum for many years and am still a member of
  > another here in Aus.
  > I wouldn't recommend the corroboree for reasons I won't go into.
  > OK BIG ego problems,thus my absence and Darrens ;)
  > Anyway I deter,Sceletium works quite well as I have used it in the past
  > mainly as a snuff preparation but I have used it sublingually too.
  > I found snuff was easier to guage as the dose is felt rapidly and you get
  > used to eyeing up how much to use.It's also smokeable and a crushed
  > match-head is roughly a dose.The same for snuff.
  > It is however something that you would use infrequently,it seems to work
  > better that way.
  > The plants are readily available too and the process is traditionally
  > fermentation in a leather pouch.
  > Sub-threshold doses of a certain fungus have been reported to be of use too.
  > Also maybe look into Hemia Salcifolia as it has some desirable properties
  > for pain and a non-benzo non-addictive alternative in it's action.
  > The immature seed heads are hand picked and dried in a warm shady
  > position.Then they can be crushed and smoked or vapourised.
  > I have used all these and lotus stamens to help me through
  > pain,cramps,spasms etc.
  > At one point I employed Mandrake,but you really need to know how to prepare
  > it and how much to use....I was in extreme withdrawal pain and could not
  > sleep.
  > These days I use binaural beats(528Hz is good),self-hypnosis and meditation
  > and I'm not depressed.
  > Points to note with Sceletium and Prozac are NOT to mix them as you probably
  > know and also to understand what the Prozac has actually done to you're
  > brain.
  > Prozac contains mostly Sodium Fluoride which calcifies the Pineal Gland and
  > also causes Fluorosis, so look those up and learn about the Pineal's
  > importance in your mental health and sleep.
  > Personally I'd steer clear of Pharma's,there are other ways,plus Prozac has
  > a bad rep for suicidality.Congrats on getting off them!
  > Melatonin works great for some to reset the sleep phases,though those would
  > already be interfered with by the other drugs in your system.
  > Still you could use it and gauge your reaction(usually the 2nd night is when
  > the reset happens).
  > Pure Melatonin is what you want, somewhere around the 2mg mark, not the
  > stuff from the chemist as it is like a tissue salt and not active enough.
  > If the dose is too high you will feel drowsy and off balance for a few hours
  > in the morning.Once again,use intermittently.
  > Bear in mind that it is now illegal under the stupid analogues clause as is
  > GABA, though you can get it easily enough.
  > Sunlight(vitamin D3 synthesis) has proven to have more efficacy than
  > Prozac.Exposure to the back of the knees seems to be the best.
  > Don't believe the melanoma hype,studies show more incidences in those who
  > sit under fluorescent lights doing desk work than tradesman, which I was for
  > 15 years installing Airconditioners in the blistering summer heat on
  > roof-tops.Funny enough, it's Desk-Jockey's that seem to have a higher
  > incidence of depression as well.
  > I also had my time with anti-depressants many years ago,though luckily
  > briefly, as my system reacted to them all quite rapidly thank God.
  > Check out the CCHR's website and see for yourself how we have been grossly
  > mislead by these dollars for Doc's BS.
  > They are releasing another video soon exposing the DSM!
  > My heart goes out to all who have been given Pharma's that are worse than
  > pure H as I've watched a lot of Doco's on the subject and know exactly why
  > they prescribe it....it's inhumane IMHO.
  > For maintaining and assessing your mental-health,there are really good sites
  > like moodgym for C.B.T. so go on the hunt for those sites.They are really
  > good and Bronwyn Fox has some excellent CD's and media available especially
  > on mindful-meditation.
  > There is no science behind mood altering pharmaceuticals and most if not all
  > do damage to the receptor sites.IMO GP's handing these out is ludicrous but
  > they get a kickback,so...yeah.
  > Also it's no surprise that the push for expanding Methadone sales came from
  > the then Prime Minister's "plight".IMHO it was a believable brainwashing
  > exercise to make them look good,for the public to embrace it out of
  > sympathy.
  > Problem,reaction,solution...this is how Governments work.
  > All here would know pure H is not dangerous at the correct dosage,it used to
  > be available at the chemist and was in Coca Cola.
  > There is most probably absolutely nothing wrong with your brain,just you're
  > thoughts.This is where CBT, especially mindful-meditation and exercise come
  > in.
  > We are built to repair ourselves.We have the ingredients but have been
  > talked out of it with fake labels/conditions/crap food and thus the
  > proliferation of Pharmaceuticals purely for bloody money!
  > My PC has been out of action for quite a while now so I have only just
  > opened up my inbox and am trying to catch up....still can't believe Obama
  > signed away American's Civil Liberties and we have US troops coming to
  > settle in Darwin o,O!
  > Chevron's been put back into place,but it looks like they are going to try
  > to drag this out again,so support Amazon Watch guys....if ever we needed
  > Shaman presence and maintain the diversity of the plants and culture in the
  > world it is now.
  > Sorry for the pretty random post, but I missed a dose today,been offline and
  > am really starting to feel like shit,so a lot is coming out.
  > It's getting really hard to concentrate now and I'm going through bad
  > inter-dose withdrawals as I type which will pan out over the next few
  > weeks,so I hope to keep track and wish you well mate.
  > You might just find someone in Oz too,just keep posting and feel free to
  > keep in touch as I will be looking for treatment in the very near future
  > too.
  > Cheers for now and take care all.
  > Andrew...
  > --------------------------------------------------
  > From: "David Ray" <trees.and.rain at gmail.com>
  > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:31 PM
  > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
  > Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibo flood symptomatic relief + and thoughts re how
  > itfeels post flood
  >> Hi Folks,
  >> Apologies in advance for the length of this question, but I need to
  >> give considerable background to get to what I want to ask about. Also
  >> a bit of a picture of Australia might help as I’m sure there are major
  >> differences between Oz and the USA.  Culturally Oz has some closer
  >> connections to UK and Europe. Cultural difference and the differences
  >> in the use and availability of different drugs make a difference to
  >> how the addiction profile is dealt with.  For instance, we have a
  >> pretty great health care system although it has the stresses and
  >> delays you might expect from “rational” economic approaches to
  >> management.  I can go to a doctor free of charge, or with a small
  >> co-payment and the government pays most or all of the fee.  Blood
  >> testing is free and a detailed heart analysis (echo-cardiogram) cost
  >> about $220 but I get back about 80% from the government health agency.
  >> The status of ibogaine in australia is the same as in the USA –
  >> banned. If I had recently ordered 2 grams of TA from ibogaworld, for
  >> example, the government would have classified that at a level with the
  >> importation of 2 grams of pure heroin and I would have been liable for
  >> a jail sentence of months or years.  Had ibogaworld posted it labelled
  >> as some innocuous herb that it vaguely resembled, I might have
  >> received it safely, but this is purely hypothetical of course.
  >> Reliable Canadian sources have, quite rightly, refused to post
  >> ibogaine to me here in australia in the past because of its legal
  >> status.  I have read about ibogaine for more than a decade and have
  >> always thought that I would use it at some stage when it became viable
  >> in Australia, when the difficulties of methadone became unbearable.  I
  >> have learned that there have been some treatments in Australia, in
  >> Queensland, the tropical north.  I think that these were done by some
  >> people I’ve since contacted who are now in the UK. I’ve tried to
  >> contact people listed as ibo providers in the past but have never got
  >> a reply so I think they came and went quite quickly and were gone,
  >> quit, jailed or whatever before I learned of them. I suspect that
  >> there may be other underground ibo groups, probably in north
  >> queensland, where the product could be successfully grown, but this is
  >> only a guess.  Seeds can be legally purchased.  It is just the refined
  >> product that is highly illegal to import. I’ve never been in a
  >> financial situation where I could think of travelling to Holland or
  >> Mexico to get a treatment.  Methadone maintenace treatment was vastly
  >> expanded in the late 80s after a drug conference in 1986 triggered by
  >> the addiction of the then prime minister’s daughter.  At that time
  >> there were about 200 people on methadone maintenance in Victoria, the
  >> state where I live. About a quarter of the australian population live
  >> in this state – about 5 million people out of 20+ million.  Within a
  >> couple of years about 3000 people were on methadone.  Now there are
  >> tens of thousands.  In the last decade subutex has become popular and
  >> there are thousands also on that.  Many authorities prefer it because
  >> of its agonist/antagonist nature, despite the factor that methadone’s
  >> overall success rate is significantly higher.  I went from methadone
  >> to subutex for a couple of months. I hate the stuff and was overjoyed
  >> to return to methadone, but some people prefer it.  Some hate
  >> methadone.  I think one of the problems of methadone is that it is
  >> more subtle in effect, but also goes very poorly with other
  >> substances.  Alcohol can cause nasty side effects combined with
  >> methadone, like death by suffocation in your sleep. The diuretic
  >> effect of alcohol also tends to flush the methadone from your system,
  >> further screwing the effect.  Combined with benzos it tends to send
  >> you into zombieland.  As I use it by itself it works well for me.  Or
  >> has worked reasonably well, despite its difficulties.
  >> I’ve been on methadone for 25 years roughly, with a couple of breaks
  >> of a month or two – firstly a return to heroin about 20 years back,
  >> then subutex about 3 years back..  I don’t smoke, or drink any more,
  >> although the idea that I might give up drinking would have been
  >> unimaginable to me until I stabilised on methadone and gradually gave
  >> up drinking.  I have hep C which I most likely got about 35 years ago.
  >> Around 95% of Aus junkies in my age group have hep C, most of them
  >> got in when it was unknown and sharing syringes was common.  Many of
  >> my friends who kept drinking are now dead from cirrhosis and related
  >> liver problems.  I’ve always hated benzos for the way they cloud the
  >> mind, although I’ve used them for short periods a few times.  When
  >> methadone maintenance initially became available I was offered one of
  >> ten places on an early trial program.  I turned it down as you’d have
  >> to agree to stay on methadone for 4 years (we were all long term
  >> multiple relapse junkies who were offered places.)  No way I’d still
  >> be on methadone for four years, I thought.  6 months later, for legal
  >> reasons (conditional good behaviour bond that enabled me to avoid a 6
  >> month jail sentence on appeal) I was under the supervision of a
  >> government treatment agency and got on methadone.  Over the years I’ve
  >> gone up and down but, apart from the couple of months noted above,
  >> have been on methadone since then.  The only other drug I’ve taken is
  >> prozac, then effexor, then back to prozac.  Lifelong depression is one
  >> of the root excuses for the H addiction.  H is a very good
  >> anti-depressant.  It is also one of the few anti-depressants that I
  >> can tolerate, as it doesn’t muddy the brain and make me
  >> non-functional. Until prozac came along I could never tolerate any of
  >> the antidepressants that were prescribed for me.  Too muddy, too
  >> drowsy, too hangovery.  Now I have tapered off prozac.  While on
  >> methadone I have done an arts degree (practically worthless, but I met
  >> some good people and learned a few things).  I have also worked
  >> fulltime for many years.  Just jobs that meant nothing but provided
  >> income.  About 8 years ago hep C became very debilitating and I gave
  >> up full time work when redundancy became available, after having to
  >> take extended leave, most of it unpaid towards the end.  That’s the
  >> time that I decided to move to the country/coast, live cheaply in a
  >> cabin and try to get some decent writing done.  In the nineties I
  >> published a number of short stories and poems in little lit mags but
  >> it’s mainly been something for myself.  In the last few years the
  >> poems and stories I’ve been writing have seemed right to me for the
  >> first time.  I’ve always muddled through my own simple idiot tunes on
  >> the guitar, and in the last few years I’ve had poems turn into songs
  >> (when I was younger attempts at public performance were only possible
  >> when blind drunk and they still terrified me – didn’t go well).    The
  >> reason I’m giving this biographical crapolla is to explain that the
  >> writing is what is important.  Methadone has been like a protective
  >> barrier so that I can be very emotionally open, thus enabling the
  >> writing, while being protected from the chaos of the modern world (the
  >> forest is also a major protection).  As the years go on I find that
  >> the methadone becomes more intrusive and begins to make clarity of
  >> mind, and hence writing, to be harder.  Likewise the side effects of
  >> the prozac seemed to become stronger.  I’ve found that reducing
  >> methadone, even slowly tends to lead to major depression and lethargy,
  >> meaning I can’t write.  So Ibogaine becomes much more desirable, to
  >> the point that I will be doing a flood when the arrangements can be
  >> made.  Hopefully in New Zealand, where it has been legal on
  >> prescription for about 16 months now.  I have a very good person in
  >> New Zealand who is in the process of lining up a doctor who can be
  >> made aware of the benefits of ibogaine.  I have done all the necessary
  >> testing under the standard protocal and found that, although my liver
  >> is compromised, it has enzyme level within the acceptable range.  My
  >> doctor here will send the test data and other health information to
  >> the doctor in New Zealand, who will hopefully be willing to prescribe
  >> the methadone to be administered by my NZ provider.  My doctor is on
  >> holiday until the middle of january, at which point things will
  >> hopefully move forward so that I can do a flood.  If this best option,
  >> near to home, falls through, fortunately there are back up options, (I
  >> have canadian citizenship, which might assist an option there, also
  >> there is Mexico, possibly Holland/Costa Rica as there is a provider
  >> who works in poth of these places) but I would really like to do it in
  >> NZ as the closeness of NZ and Oz may help to make the treatment
  >> available in Australia. Ever since I was told of the provider in NZ
  >> this has seemed lie the optimum option.  After many years I know many
  >> of the addiction experts here in Oz and will do what I can to push for
  >> treatment opening up here in the future, hopefully as some form of
  >> government approved trials.
  >> Okay, after all this crap, is there actually a question??????  Yep –
  >> there are problems associated with the after-treatment and there are a
  >> couple of questions I have associated with this.  As the objective is
  >> that I be able to go on with my writing, return to clarity of mind
  >> within the shortest possible time, the notion of using benzos or any
  >> other such intrusive symptomatic forms of relief is pretty pointless.
  >> I would be willing to go back onto a low dose of prozac for a limited
  >> period, but really I would like to know if there are very
  >> non-intrusive medications that might help me through this period.
  >> Melatonin for insomnia has been suggested.  I have not used this, but
  >> it is natural within the body.  If there are any herbal type things
  >> that might be helpful, this would be good.
  >> The other question – noribogaine persists within the body for several
  >> months and is proposed as the active agent in enabling the long term
  >> behavioural changes needed to get out of on opiate lifestyle.  What is
  >> the nature of its effect within the body?  I believe it is subtle, but
  >> I wonder if anybody might try to describe how it feels to have this
  >> active substance within you.  It seems like it has some stimulant
  >> effects, but does it feel like you’ve had a couple of cups of coffee,
  >> or you feel more confident, or….??????  I realise this is very
  >> difficult but I have read a huge number of people’s accounts and they
  >> seem to stop at the end of the active process after a few days.  Would
  >> anyone like to comment on the feeling of the months that follow a
  >> flood.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  I will learn myself in a
  >> couple of months but I’d love to know what other people have to say
  >> about this.  Sometimes I have read:  “Harry seemed different after the
  >> flood.”  But they never say in what way.  Any thoughts????
  >> Thanks in advance,
  >> David
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