[Ibogaine] long-term outcome study on ibogaine patients?

Randy Faulconer bicuitboy714 at gmail.com
Tue May 24 10:50:18 EDT 2011


         Hi Bunnie, thanx for making me laugh.
            Yeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaa

       Actually Dana's book has some good stuff in it. It's kind of hard to
get through to the facts sometimes, but well worth the effort, AND he has
more copies of it for sell. I highly recommend buying a copy for those who
can afford it. I moved a bunch of copies of it for him upstate in my mini
van and I can't imagine that he has sold all of them. I had to make about 10
trips. Maybe somebody at number 9 Bleeker can tell us how we can buy a copy.

        By the way has anybody heard anything about him getting out?? I
think he deserves a reduction on his bond. He won't be a flight risk, I just
know it. He has balls of steel and I think he will relish having the
opportunity to shake his dick at the court system. He wouldn't miss that.

            Peace Love and The Underground
                  Randy
                     BiscuitBoy Blues

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 8:53 AM, g. bunnie <gbgbunnie at gmail.com> wrote:

> you're kidding right? I think Dana would pay someone to read his book ;-)
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 3:06 AM, Curtis Madison <
> crownofthorns1313 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>  So far as I know the Ibogaine Story is not public domain, it's a
>> copyrighted book which is still sold on Amazon.
>> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570270295/qid=1077344566/
>>     There is a copy online Mindvox, which is there with Dana Beal's
>> approval
>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/IbogaineStory/index.html
>>     I'd think Dana and probably Paul Direnzo who is on this list would be
>> ok with any ibogaine info being spread as wide as possible, but that's a rip
>> of a copyrighted book ;-)
>>
>> peace out
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* you're it <mmmm.i.like.that at gmail.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Thu, April 28, 2011 1:09:17 AM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] long-term outcome study on ibogaine patients?
>>
>> Thanks to all who replied.   I am truly grateful for all of the advice
>> I've got on and through this list.   You are all really great and have
>> helped a lot.
>>
>> I've been reading the links that have been posted and am working my way
>> through the IIbogaine Story.  Wow, that is a book.
>>
>> http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17439
>>
>> Over the years, I've read a decent amount about the counterculture and
>> people like Owsley (whom I got to meet once long after knowing his work )
>> and other legendary 60's/70's figures, but I am ashamed that I never
>> before read about people like Dana Beal or Jon Parker.   It's a real eye
>> opener how dedicated so many people have been to try to change the often
>> fucked up ways that people stand in the way of what's smart or what's
>> right.  .
>>
>> That they got things like needle exchange and pot as medicine
>> started during the Reagan/Bush years and took/are taking the bullets
>> themselves is incredbile.   I look at how many states now have medical pot
>> and that is just amazing that anyone was able to do that in this country.  I
>> guess that with needle exchange, anything that saves them money on health
>> care costs and protects"innocent" people from aids is ok.  The evidence was
>> so damn overwhelming there.
>>
>> It's sad that no one and no consensus could be reached as far as making
>> ibogaine widely tested and available.  When I read that they had spoke to
>> Hillary Clinton before they got in the White House and nothing still came of
>> it, that told me the mountain that has to be climbed.  I'm simple when I'm
>> convinced that something is worth trying and some things seem like a no
>> brainer to me.  It seems like there being no real  money in it for anyone
>> (compared to rehab, methadone, suboxone) is a big factor and that is how
>> most things work in this country and world.  So much harm has been done in
>> the name of morality too.   I remember how sick and ashamed I felt the first
>> time I read and watched "And the Band Played On" how so many pious and
>> ignorant people stood in the way of aids research and treatment.
>>
>> I know I'm fighting the odds trying to help someone who wouldn't do this
>> for herself unless there was a bag of dope in it for her, but it sure sounds
>> like most of you have been there.  She's thinks that nothing will change how
>> she feels about dope because nothing she's tried has worked.  I'm probably
>> crazy for trying to find something that will change her mind.   When I
>> read about 5-10 year dope fiends who leave it behind after iboga that tells
>> me that it changes how some people feel about their life or helps them do
>> it.   Reading the Ibogaine story and others have made it clear to me that a
>> lot of people who get that kind of experience then want to bring that kind
>> of new life to others.  That alone tells me in my heart and head what I need
>> to know.    When I read about people getting shit from the dealers about
>> losing their customers, that meant something to me.
>>
>>  As I've been learning and sharing what I've found with her and trying to
>> help her decide if this is something that she should do, the thought that
>> she's tried most everything else and this is worth trying makes the most
>> sense to me and to her.   As best as I can figure, she od's so easily
>> because of her asthma.  Her breathing is not 100% to begin with and throwing
>> a strong respiratory depressant in is about the most stupid thing she could
>> do.  For me and for most people, that'd probably be enough   Apart from that
>> and diabetes which is under control and a bunch of pin holes and
>> bruises, she's in pretty good health.    I've seen her high enough times
>> where her respiration slows to a crawl and it scares the shit out of
>> me.   The guy that she's staying with now tells me the same thing is still
>> going on.
>>
>> I've tried helping her get clean 3-4 times when she wanted to and let her
>> live with me against my best judgement with thinking definitely from the
>> heart more than the head, but dope has a stonger hold on her than life.
>> She tried her best, but she has always gone back to dope and I had to ask
>> her to leave each time.     I know that makes her a poor candidate
>> for change, but even if the odds are only 10-20% and it might take a few
>> tries,  it beats dying and she's definitely worth the effort.   She's 22 and
>> exceptional in so many ways. She's sharp and she's funny.   When it's not
>> about dope, she's one of the most honest people I think I've ever met.   I'd
>> love to see what kind of person she'd turn out to be without dope being
>> her main focus and I believe she wants that too.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> The problems is not dying but living.  I know one
>>> guy who shot up $15 of H and now walk with a limp,
>>> didn't hang but seen him around here and there.
>>>
>>> Another guy was shooting in the groin and has had
>>> to have an operation and almost lost his leg.  Then
>>> to add insult to injury his parole offices sent him to
>>> rehab when he got out of the hospital.
>>>
>>> I sincerely hope Bob's GF  doesn't have to be
>>> addicted for years and years for it is a hard life
>>> and not as much fun as it looks like.  I have
>>> found that most people who OD are under 25 yr.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>   - JIM
>>>
>>> --- On *Sun, 4/24/11, you're it <mmmm.i.like.that at gmail.com>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: you're it <mmmm.i.like.that at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] long-term outcome study on ibogaine patients?
>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Date: Sunday, April 24, 2011, 8:36 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Curtis Madison <
>>> crownofthorns1313 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=crownofthorns1313@yahoo.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>    Same same with Chris' other comment, why wouldn't she be around? Most
>>> peeps
>>> who should be dead by next week, do seem to keep on going as the decades
>>> pass.
>>> She may not have the greatest life, but there's no reason to assume that
>>> she's
>>> doomed to death in the near future. People die all the time, but the odds
>>> of
>>> living are still in your favor even if you abuse the crap out of
>>> everything you
>>> can get your hands on.
>>>
>>> I hear what you're saying.   I wonder if I'm overreacting sometimes, but
>>> the clear answer back from within is always no.   I think I have good reason
>>> to worry and I'll share them.  Maybe some of you more experienced with
>>> addiction can tell me if I'm overreacting.
>>>
>>> I know that some people live with daily dope use and other wild behavior
>>> for years or decades and I'm one of them on a small scale, but I don't
>>> believe that she'd be one of them.  I've only talked to a tiny 4 or 5 people
>>> who've done dope for 8-10-20 years.   The ones I talked to od'd once
>>> or never.    She has od'd at least a dozen times that I know of in 2 years
>>> and I'm betting there are more that I don't know about.   This counts the
>>> first 6 months to a year when she was only using once or twice a week and
>>> the 3 months or so she's spent in jail, rehab, and detox.  She's been very
>>> lucky, but luck runs out.    I didn't know that when I was young and
>>> oblivious.   I hope the person huffing the inhalants reads that and thinks
>>> about it.  The rest of you gave that person excellent advice.
>>>
>>> I don't know what % of people prone to od live for years continuing to do
>>> dope, but I'd be surprised if it's over 50%.    Maybe I'm overreacting, but
>>> my heart and my gut tell me otherwise.
>>>
>>> When I became aware that she had od'd more than once, I tried to educate
>>> myself and then her about narcan after a friend told me about it.  I  took
>>> her to our local needle exhange and got her some.   So far, it's possibly
>>> kept her alive twice that I know of.   Maybe she would've got to an ER,
>>> maybe not.   She's showed her friends who use and those who love them how to
>>> use it.   What if she's alone the next time? That'll be that.
>>>
>>> Is it common for daily or almost daily heroin users to od 10-15 times
>>> over a few years and live if they keep going?     I've seen them talk about
>>> people who've od'd 10-20 times on Intervention.   Maybe this is common and I
>>> just don't know it?
>>>
>>> I tried doing a little google research.  I came up with this.
>>>
>>>  Abstract
>>>
>>> Nonfatal heroin overdoses and suicide attempts are both common among
>>> heroin addicts, but there is limited knowledge about the association between
>>> them. The sample in the present study consisted of 149 regular heroin users
>>> in Malmö, Sweden. Out of these 98 had taken an unintentional heroin overdose
>>> at some time and 51 had made at least one attempt to commit suicide (but not
>>> using heroin). Suicide attempts were significantly more common among those
>>> who had taken unintentional overdoses as compared with those who had never
>>> taken any overdose (p < 0.01). The more overdoses, the greater the risk of
>>> suicide attempt.
>>>
>>> So 2/3 had an unintentional od.    It doesn't say how many times they
>>> od'ed or if they were prone to it, or if they were alive after 1, 2, or 5
>>> years.  It also suggests a link of suicidal behavior to this group.   That's
>>> two high risk factors in the same sentence.
>>>
>>> She used to say that she didn't care if she lived or died and she also
>>> said she'd wish she'd die the next time she od'd.  I heard her say that a
>>> few times.    I took her for therapy every week for 9 months.  Now she says
>>> that she doesn't feel that way anymore, so even though it didn't help her
>>> beat dope, it was good for something.  I think it helped her get to detox
>>> and slow down those few times also.   She's also a lot less emotional and
>>> volatile, so there were more  benefits.   Now she says she wants to live.
>>> That does up her chances a lot.    I also know from reading about risks that
>>> slamming can be a bigger risk for od.   If you don't care, are you
>>> careful?   She said she was doing that too sometimes because she didn't
>>> care.   I'll bet that's hard to not do every once in a while when you're
>>> anxious.
>>>
>>> Slamming, narcan, quinine, I am learning all sorts of shit that I never
>>> thought I'd learn and I sometimes wish I didn't know or feel that I need
>>> to.  Do I want her to learn the hard way by going blue again?
>>>
>>> Sometimes I wish I didn't care, but I do.     I read about quinine when I
>>> read a study that discussed fatal od's.   I was trying to figure out why
>>> she od's so easily.   The study cited quinine in the dope, benzos, and
>>> drinking as suspected reasons for most fatal od's.   It said that there
>>> wasn't enough levels of morphine in the blood to kill anyone at autopsy for
>>> many fatal od's and the conclusion was that it was drug interactions.   At
>>> least that was my laymans comprehension of it.    She stopped taking zanax
>>> (which her shrink prescribed for anxiety and she would overdo and finish a
>>> month's worth of lose dose in a week) or other benzos and doesn't drink
>>> hardly at all anymore.   I don't care if learning about the connections
>>> between mixing those and od got her to back off those behaviors, I'm just
>>> glad she did because those have upped her chances too.    She also
>>> has asthma and that may be another reason she is prone to respiratory
>>> distress.
>>>
>>> I've tried my best to help her cut her risk factors down, but short of
>>> her wanting to kick, there is no way to get risk down to a level that is
>>> acceptable to me.
>>>
>>> Damn, I went on another long rant here.  I'm sorry about that. From what
>>> I've read so far, there isn't too much that most people on this list don't
>>> know about addiction.   I can tell that a lot of you have lived it and
>>> studied it.
>>>
>>>  I started out totally clueless, and now a year later, I'm still
>>> functionally clueless.   I just want her to have a life, and hopefully a
>>> semi-happy one, which is the best a lot of us can hope for.       I've come
>>> a long way from "this is where you're heading" or "don't" and "please don't
>>> do this to yourself", which is all I had a year ago.   Maybe my experience
>>> will help someone down the road that was as clueless as I was.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
>>>
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