[Ibogaine] Jim's responce/Gary

Jen Santos jsantos at persephonebirthways.com
Thu May 12 20:40:57 EDT 2011


I thought it was because if you take more opiate, you make the withdrawal worse...more competition for the receptors...no personal experience, just academic.

~Jen



On May 12, 2011, at 5:58 PM, Jim Hadey wrote:

> 
> Hi Randy,
> 
> >>I was
> > so sick that I went straight from the hospital and copped 5 80's to
> > get over the nal in my system and went to work. NOT, I was still sick
> > for days and now I can't even do enough dope to get over the nal. God
> > knows I tried.  <<<
> 
> I understand you went through hell but your not suppose
> to use after nal for your resistance is zero.  From what I
> have read you can use opiates and use and use then all
> of a sudden you die, I know too late now.
> 
> Also pheno barb, oh man that causes
> depression for days.  I could not think of a worse barb.
> How come they can't give you Nembutal or Seconal??  
> You could ask but the answer is we don't, end of story.
> Kind of like arguing with Judge Judy, it won't do much
> good.
> 
> Best,
> 
>   - JIM
> 
> --- On Thu, 5/12/11, Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Edward W <edwardw at mtciep.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jim's responce/Gary
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 12, 2011, 10:33 AM
> 
> I have to say that Antabuse did help me stay away from alcohol, while on 
> the it, I was always afraid of what the effects would be if I did even 
> drink a drop of alcohol.  I realize it's only a short term deterrent.  
> It seemed Campral(Acamposate) was effective for alcohol cravings.  
> Didn't mean to break the flow Randy, just my small experience with alcohol.
> 
> Peace
> 
> ___________________
> Edward
> edwardw at mtciep.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/12/2011 8:26 AM, Randy Faulconer wrote:
> >        Hi Jasen, you still my brother??
> >
> >         I too have tried the nal thing. I did a kind of poor man's
> > rapid detox in the hospital. The doc was in recovery and was really
> > trying to help me. I knew him from the rooms so I guess he meant well.
> > I was coming off of Oxy's in 96. This was before I knew about Ibogaine
> > by the way.
> >
> >         Anyway, he told me he wanted to try something, explained what
> > it was he wanted to do, then gave me some nal and a hand full of pheno
> > barb and serax. I don't think that I ever felt worse in a hospital
> > detox. They kept me so fucked up on all of the downers that I was
> > cross eyed for days. After a week of this the doc comes to me and says
> > " I think that this worked". Hooray!!!!!.............yea right, I was
> > so sick that I went straight from the hospital and copped 5 80's to
> > get over the nal in my system and went to work. NOT, I was still sick
> > for days and now I can't even do enough dope to get over the nal. God
> > knows I tried.
> >
> >          I guess what I'm tryin' to say is, even if the doc you have
> > likes you and really wants to help most of those guys don't know DICK
> > about addiction and even less about what nal does to your body. It's
> > like trying to put a bandage on a bullet wound to treat an addict with
> > that shit. Same for antibuse for alcohol. Been there too. The only way
> > that I know of that really works is to do an Ibo treatment, treat the
> > PAWS symptomatically, and get some good aftercare going. Even with
> > Ibogaine you have to be ready for the PAWS. Ibogaine cuts out a whole
> > lot of suffering, but you will still be a little sick. Boosters help a
> > lot but still you have to have some way to deal with the shit that
> > will be in your head. Everybody wants a quick way out, that's only
> > natural. It just aint so, not that I know of anyway.
> >
> >            Peace Love and Immodium
> >                Randy
> >                 BiscuitBoy Blues
> >
> > On 5/9/11, Jasen happy<jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Gary,
> >>
> >> Jim has made some great and very true comments.
> >>
> >> I saw my brother try and come off Suboxne and try to go onto Naltrexone so
> >> he
> >> would not have any cravings and stay free. He did the normal thing of
> >> reducing
> >> down to 2mg's then being off his tablet for 3 to 4 days. He went into the
> >> doc's
> >> very excited about not being in withdrawal and excited that this was it...go
> >> onto Naltrexone and no more opiates and even better no cravings for
> >> opiates..Wow! How very cool....until..the doctor said to be sure he would
> >> have
> >> to inject my brother with Narcaine  to make sure there was no more opiates
> >> in
> >> his system.
> >>
> >>
> >> The doc injected him with the Narcain and left us for a few minutes and
> >> I remember my brother after a few minutes saying wow, this is great,( he was
> >> sooo excited after 20 years of addiction ) it's all out of my system and now
> >> I
> >> can keep it out with Naltrexone...HOWEVER as Jim said the Narcaine would not
> >> and
> >> was not strong enough to get that very stubborn Suboxone off the receptors.
> >> The
> >> doc gave my brother some tablet form Naltrexone ( so glad it wasn't an
> >> implant)
> >> to take home. We went to my place and he had his first dose of Naltrexone
> >> orally, he went into severe withdrawal, I had seen him in withdrawal before
> >> but
> >> not like this. He put up with it for 24 hours, shat the bed, was in a pool
> >> of
> >> sweat ect ect. As strong and determined as he was he got up with a balnket
> >> around him and said to me,"Jase, I can't do this man, not like this, you
> >> have to
> >> get me something". That was that.
> >>
> >> Be very careful when going onto Naltrexone especially from Beup, Suboxone,
> >> Subutex. As far as I have heard and seen, it's not that Naltrexone stops the
> >> cravings, basically it's more that if you use opiates you will not feel
> >> them.
> >>
> >> I have known quite a few people who when using opiates didn't use speed
> >> however
> >> started doing so when they had the Naltrexone implant because they still
> >> wanted
> >> something. This is one of the good things about Iboga/Ibogaine is it can
> >> SOMETHIMES help with dealing with some of those issues that contribute to us
> >> chasing something to fill the missing peice which a lot of the times is
> >> actual
> >> peace.
> >>
> >> The missing peice is peace. I have also known people after a full blown
> >> treatment to still have cravings, though diminshed still had them. Other
> >> people
> >> who had no cravings at all and even at the thought of using opiates made
> >> them
> >> repulsed.
> >>
> >> There are no gaurantees with Iboga/Ibogaine. You can be sure though that 99%
> >> of
> >> the time it will take away at least 80% of the withdrawal, sometimes all the
> >> withdralwal and calm the cravings down, nothing else does.
> >>
> >> As most of us know it shouldn't be said that if you have Iboga/Ibogaine
> >> everything will be alright. You definatley need to know what you will be
> >> doing
> >> post Iboga/Ibogaine and expect to feel some discomfort for at least a few
> >> days,
> >> sometimes weeks and sometimes months if you have been using for a very long
> >> time
> >> and you are on methadone. However it is a wonderful and remarkable medicine
> >> that
> >> helps us to and gives us a very good chance to become free.
> >>
> >> It is the best thing I have ever done and would always highly reccomend it,
> >> I
> >> just wouldn't over sell it with my enthusiasm as I did when I first had it.
> >> It
> >> is quite marvelous.
> >>
> >> Save the Iboga trees, Save Dana  : ) and remember Norma Lotsof wife of the
> >> great
> >> Howard Lotsof.
> >>
> >> Jasen
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Jim Hadey<jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
> >> To: The Ibogaine List<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >> Sent: Thu, 28 April, 2011 12:10:36 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and naltrelone
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Gary,
> >>
> >> You were doing so good too, it is not my place
> >> to bitch at ya it's just kind of a shame as were we
> >> all rooting fer ya.  Anyway listen Very carefully to
> >> what I am gonna tell ya.  With large amounts of
> >> heroin use you must wait at the very least 14
> >> to 21 one days.  I took nal after the Narcan
> >> challenge where they give you a shot of Narcan
> >> and if you go into wd it is only 4 hours.  If you
> >> take Naltraxon  too soon you will be in
> >> Extreme  wd for a day or two but it will seem
> >> much longer.  I was using heroin heavily and
> >> took Nal on day 20 and all was fine.Now, if your
> >> on sub it very well could take longer.  Now they
> >> give you a Narcan challenge and everything
> >> goes fine for the sub is warped around several
> >> receptors - Very tightly.  So tightly the Narcan
> >> can not do it's wd thing.  Then you go and take
> >> the Naltraxon and the Nal kicks the sub off the
> >> receptors or out numbers the sub molecules
> >> and you will have the worst wd of your life.
> >> What I am saying is be Very careful I re posted
> >> a story about the same thing happening
> >> to a guy, he passed the Narcan challenge but
> >> got his ass severely kicked for a day or two
> >> and was on sub.
> >>
> >> I don't want to see this happen to you.  Before
> >> dropping the Nal maybe take it a speck at a
> >> time every two hours.  BTW, did you try taking
> >> the RB to fight off paws or did it just do ya in
> >> after a while?  Yea, it wears ya down, tired no
> >> energy, can't take it anymore.  There is no such
> >> thing as a pain free detox as it is going to hurt
> >> and ....well make ya feel like crap for a while
> >> sometimes 6 months from met.  I had cravings
> >> for years and years.  Anyway try again when your
> >> able, what else can ya do?
> >>
> >> I just reread you post and you say:
> >>
> >>>>> Anyone have any thoughts on
> >> using some rb maybe the day after
> >> my last mst dose and then start the
> >> nal the next day?<<<
> >>
> >> You DO NOT take mst (I take it that's the
> >> same as MS Contin, right?) and take Nal
> >> the next day.  You should never take
> >> Nal if you have used opiates in the last
> >> 21 days.  I took a speck of nal  seven
> >> days after I shot a dime of smack.  One
> >> hour later I had a loose shit, the wd kind,
> >> but that was all there was to it.  I took
> >> maybe a 10th or 20th of the tab hard to
> >> tell.  But if you take an opiate one day
> >> and Nal the next plan to be home and go
> >> through hell.  Also, let us know how it
> >> goes for you might be able to help
> >> someone else who might do the same
> >> thing.  If your psch wants to give you
> >> ms contin then switch you to sub - don't.
> >> That is backwards, ask anybody.  You can
> >> drop to 2mg of sub and can go no lower
> >> from the stories of many people on this
> >> forum.
> >>
> >> Best of Luck,
> >>
> >>    - JIM
> >>
> >> --- On Wed, 4/27/11, Sister<sisterwind at verizon.net>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Sister<sisterwind at verizon.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and naltrelone
> >>> To: "The Ibogaine List"<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >>> Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 8:21 AM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Gary... not sure I understand... What also causes paws?  The rb or the
> >>> nalt?
> >>>
> >>> I do have a few questions.  What else have you done for your soberity other
> >>> then
> >>> the iboga?  Any support system in place?  Did you increase exceriseing or
> >>> change
> >>> anything?  I have to admit... I never had anyone tell me that they didnt
> >>> get
> >>> relief from the craving by doing a full flood.  I also have to admit I have
> >>> only
> >>> been involved with this plant for about a yr so I havent seen it all.  I
> >>> just
> >>> never had anyone tell me that I wittiness a flood dose that they still have
> >>>
> >>> cravings.  Now some have said they only got 3 mo of relief but never came
> >>> out
> >>> the gate with cravings.
> >>>
> >>> This makes me wonder a few things but.... I guess mainly what else have you
> >>> done
> >>> for yourself.
> >>>
> >>> I know for me and my 35 plus yrs of using depending on iboga alone landed
> >>> in
> >>> failure.  I had to step up and out of my comfort zone.  This meant asking
> >>> for
> >>> help, sharing with others, allowing others to help me. BIG changes in my
> >>> life
> >>> etc.  But if your depending on Iboga alone then I dont have all that much
> >>> hope
> >>> for success.  Iboga is wonderful, best plan of action I know of but that
> >>> alone
> >>> is for sure not enough.
> >>>
> >>> I also had lingering symptoms of wd.  I had the chill in my arms that
> >>> lasted a
> >>> good mo or longer.  It was not very intense but for sure there.    I just
> >>> figured that after 35 yr of continuesly putting some sort of opiate in my
> >>> system
> >>> to function that I couldnt ask for more then what I got.
> >>>
> >>> I also needed that second tx badly.... that second tx for me made all the
> >>> difference.  After my first tx I didnt get boosters or did I even know
> >>> anything
> >>> about rb.. I do think it would of made a difference but it is what it is.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ANyways... going back to dope is a choice for sure.  Just not one that I
> >>> want
> >>> for me.  I hate to see someone give up and give in to it.  It is the
> >>> easiest way
> >>> for sure.... wont have to grow up but for this addict it is NOT a choice.
> >>> I
> >>> know what will happen so I am willing to do whatever it takes to keep what
> >>> I
> >>> have now.
> >>>
> >>> --- On Tue, 4/26/11, Gary<sidskidpiercing at gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Gary<sidskidpiercing at gmail.com>
> >>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and naltrelone
> >>>> To: "The Ibogaine List"<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >>>> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 4:54 PM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi all.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a question regarding my latest attempt at detox...
> >>>>
> >>>> My psych has agreed to a taper me with mst (slow release morphine
> >>>> sulphate) - a
> >>>> rare opportunity over here. You can normally only get prescribed morphine
> >>>> via a
> >>>> private doctor/prescription
> >>>>
> >>>> So the plan is to stabilise me on the morphine and reduce it over around
> >>>> three
> >>>> months. At the end I'm going to get oral naltrexone.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately ibo didn't work for me when it came to cravings and paws.
> >>>>
> >>>> I do still have some rb leftover and was wondering if I could use it at
> >>>> the end
> >>>> of my taper to kick the last of the opiates off the receptors before I
> >>>> start the
> >>>> naltrexone... ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Mst continus has quite a long half life and as you all know when swapping
> >>>> to
> >>>> suboxone/nal you need to go into wd's to avoid precipitated acute wd's.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't really fancy waiting three days in-between the two.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone have any thoughts on using some rb maybe the day after my last mst
> >>>> dose
> >>>> and then start the nal the next day?
> >>>>
> >>>> I've also heard nal can cause paws on it's own? Anyone have any experience
> >>>> of
> >>>> this?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Obviously I'm anxious about the transfer part. And then if I'm struggling
> >>>> with
> >>>> wd's once on nal I can't do anything about it!.... Or can rb be used in
> >>>> combination maybe for residual paws?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Gary
> >>>>
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