[Ibogaine] Jim's responce/Gary

Edward W edwardw at mtciep.com
Thu May 12 10:33:58 EDT 2011


I have to say that Antabuse did help me stay away from alcohol, while on 
the it, I was always afraid of what the effects would be if I did even 
drink a drop of alcohol.  I realize it's only a short term deterrent.  
It seemed Campral(Acamposate) was effective for alcohol cravings.  
Didn't mean to break the flow Randy, just my small experience with alcohol.

Peace

___________________
Edward
edwardw at mtciep.com





On 5/12/2011 8:26 AM, Randy Faulconer wrote:
>        Hi Jasen, you still my brother??
>
>         I too have tried the nal thing. I did a kind of poor man's
> rapid detox in the hospital. The doc was in recovery and was really
> trying to help me. I knew him from the rooms so I guess he meant well.
> I was coming off of Oxy's in 96. This was before I knew about Ibogaine
> by the way.
>
>         Anyway, he told me he wanted to try something, explained what
> it was he wanted to do, then gave me some nal and a hand full of pheno
> barb and serax. I don't think that I ever felt worse in a hospital
> detox. They kept me so fucked up on all of the downers that I was
> cross eyed for days. After a week of this the doc comes to me and says
> " I think that this worked". Hooray!!!!!.............yea right, I was
> so sick that I went straight from the hospital and copped 5 80's to
> get over the nal in my system and went to work. NOT, I was still sick
> for days and now I can't even do enough dope to get over the nal. God
> knows I tried.
>
>          I guess what I'm tryin' to say is, even if the doc you have
> likes you and really wants to help most of those guys don't know DICK
> about addiction and even less about what nal does to your body. It's
> like trying to put a bandage on a bullet wound to treat an addict with
> that shit. Same for antibuse for alcohol. Been there too. The only way
> that I know of that really works is to do an Ibo treatment, treat the
> PAWS symptomatically, and get some good aftercare going. Even with
> Ibogaine you have to be ready for the PAWS. Ibogaine cuts out a whole
> lot of suffering, but you will still be a little sick. Boosters help a
> lot but still you have to have some way to deal with the shit that
> will be in your head. Everybody wants a quick way out, that's only
> natural. It just aint so, not that I know of anyway.
>
>            Peace Love and Immodium
>                Randy
>                 BiscuitBoy Blues
>
> On 5/9/11, Jasen happy<jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>  wrote:
>>
>> Hello Gary,
>>
>> Jim has made some great and very true comments.
>>
>> I saw my brother try and come off Suboxne and try to go onto Naltrexone so
>> he
>> would not have any cravings and stay free. He did the normal thing of
>> reducing
>> down to 2mg's then being off his tablet for 3 to 4 days. He went into the
>> doc's
>> very excited about not being in withdrawal and excited that this was it...go
>> onto Naltrexone and no more opiates and even better no cravings for
>> opiates..Wow! How very cool....until..the doctor said to be sure he would
>> have
>> to inject my brother with Narcaine  to make sure there was no more opiates
>> in
>> his system.
>>
>>
>> The doc injected him with the Narcain and left us for a few minutes and
>> I remember my brother after a few minutes saying wow, this is great,( he was
>> sooo excited after 20 years of addiction ) it's all out of my system and now
>> I
>> can keep it out with Naltrexone...HOWEVER as Jim said the Narcaine would not
>> and
>> was not strong enough to get that very stubborn Suboxone off the receptors.
>> The
>> doc gave my brother some tablet form Naltrexone ( so glad it wasn't an
>> implant)
>> to take home. We went to my place and he had his first dose of Naltrexone
>> orally, he went into severe withdrawal, I had seen him in withdrawal before
>> but
>> not like this. He put up with it for 24 hours, shat the bed, was in a pool
>> of
>> sweat ect ect. As strong and determined as he was he got up with a balnket
>> around him and said to me,"Jase, I can't do this man, not like this, you
>> have to
>> get me something". That was that.
>>
>> Be very careful when going onto Naltrexone especially from Beup, Suboxone,
>> Subutex. As far as I have heard and seen, it's not that Naltrexone stops the
>> cravings, basically it's more that if you use opiates you will not feel
>> them.
>>
>> I have known quite a few people who when using opiates didn't use speed
>> however
>> started doing so when they had the Naltrexone implant because they still
>> wanted
>> something. This is one of the good things about Iboga/Ibogaine is it can
>> SOMETHIMES help with dealing with some of those issues that contribute to us
>> chasing something to fill the missing peice which a lot of the times is
>> actual
>> peace.
>>
>> The missing peice is peace. I have also known people after a full blown
>> treatment to still have cravings, though diminshed still had them. Other
>> people
>> who had no cravings at all and even at the thought of using opiates made
>> them
>> repulsed.
>>
>> There are no gaurantees with Iboga/Ibogaine. You can be sure though that 99%
>> of
>> the time it will take away at least 80% of the withdrawal, sometimes all the
>> withdralwal and calm the cravings down, nothing else does.
>>
>> As most of us know it shouldn't be said that if you have Iboga/Ibogaine
>> everything will be alright. You definatley need to know what you will be
>> doing
>> post Iboga/Ibogaine and expect to feel some discomfort for at least a few
>> days,
>> sometimes weeks and sometimes months if you have been using for a very long
>> time
>> and you are on methadone. However it is a wonderful and remarkable medicine
>> that
>> helps us to and gives us a very good chance to become free.
>>
>> It is the best thing I have ever done and would always highly reccomend it,
>> I
>> just wouldn't over sell it with my enthusiasm as I did when I first had it.
>> It
>> is quite marvelous.
>>
>> Save the Iboga trees, Save Dana  : ) and remember Norma Lotsof wife of the
>> great
>> Howard Lotsof.
>>
>> Jasen
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Jim Hadey<jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
>> To: The Ibogaine List<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Thu, 28 April, 2011 12:10:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and naltrelone
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> You were doing so good too, it is not my place
>> to bitch at ya it's just kind of a shame as were we
>> all rooting fer ya.  Anyway listen Very carefully to
>> what I am gonna tell ya.  With large amounts of
>> heroin use you must wait at the very least 14
>> to 21 one days.  I took nal after the Narcan
>> challenge where they give you a shot of Narcan
>> and if you go into wd it is only 4 hours.  If you
>> take Naltraxon  too soon you will be in
>> Extreme  wd for a day or two but it will seem
>> much longer.  I was using heroin heavily and
>> took Nal on day 20 and all was fine.Now, if your
>> on sub it very well could take longer.  Now they
>> give you a Narcan challenge and everything
>> goes fine for the sub is warped around several
>> receptors - Very tightly.  So tightly the Narcan
>> can not do it's wd thing.  Then you go and take
>> the Naltraxon and the Nal kicks the sub off the
>> receptors or out numbers the sub molecules
>> and you will have the worst wd of your life.
>> What I am saying is be Very careful I re posted
>> a story about the same thing happening
>> to a guy, he passed the Narcan challenge but
>> got his ass severely kicked for a day or two
>> and was on sub.
>>
>> I don't want to see this happen to you.  Before
>> dropping the Nal maybe take it a speck at a
>> time every two hours.  BTW, did you try taking
>> the RB to fight off paws or did it just do ya in
>> after a while?  Yea, it wears ya down, tired no
>> energy, can't take it anymore.  There is no such
>> thing as a pain free detox as it is going to hurt
>> and ....well make ya feel like crap for a while
>> sometimes 6 months from met.  I had cravings
>> for years and years.  Anyway try again when your
>> able, what else can ya do?
>>
>> I just reread you post and you say:
>>
>>>>> Anyone have any thoughts on
>> using some rb maybe the day after
>> my last mst dose and then start the
>> nal the next day?<<<
>>
>> You DO NOT take mst (I take it that's the
>> same as MS Contin, right?) and take Nal
>> the next day.  You should never take
>> Nal if you have used opiates in the last
>> 21 days.  I took a speck of nal  seven
>> days after I shot a dime of smack.  One
>> hour later I had a loose shit, the wd kind,
>> but that was all there was to it.  I took
>> maybe a 10th or 20th of the tab hard to
>> tell.  But if you take an opiate one day
>> and Nal the next plan to be home and go
>> through hell.  Also, let us know how it
>> goes for you might be able to help
>> someone else who might do the same
>> thing.  If your psch wants to give you
>> ms contin then switch you to sub - don't.
>> That is backwards, ask anybody.  You can
>> drop to 2mg of sub and can go no lower
>> from the stories of many people on this
>> forum.
>>
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>>    - JIM
>>
>> --- On Wed, 4/27/11, Sister<sisterwind at verizon.net>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From: Sister<sisterwind at verizon.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and naltrelone
>>> To: "The Ibogaine List"<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 8:21 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary... not sure I understand... What also causes paws?  The rb or the
>>> nalt?
>>>
>>> I do have a few questions.  What else have you done for your soberity other
>>> then
>>> the iboga?  Any support system in place?  Did you increase exceriseing or
>>> change
>>> anything?  I have to admit... I never had anyone tell me that they didnt
>>> get
>>> relief from the craving by doing a full flood.  I also have to admit I have
>>> only
>>> been involved with this plant for about a yr so I havent seen it all.  I
>>> just
>>> never had anyone tell me that I wittiness a flood dose that they still have
>>>
>>> cravings.  Now some have said they only got 3 mo of relief but never came
>>> out
>>> the gate with cravings.
>>>
>>> This makes me wonder a few things but.... I guess mainly what else have you
>>> done
>>> for yourself.
>>>
>>> I know for me and my 35 plus yrs of using depending on iboga alone landed
>>> in
>>> failure.  I had to step up and out of my comfort zone.  This meant asking
>>> for
>>> help, sharing with others, allowing others to help me. BIG changes in my
>>> life
>>> etc.  But if your depending on Iboga alone then I dont have all that much
>>> hope
>>> for success.  Iboga is wonderful, best plan of action I know of but that
>>> alone
>>> is for sure not enough.
>>>
>>> I also had lingering symptoms of wd.  I had the chill in my arms that
>>> lasted a
>>> good mo or longer.  It was not very intense but for sure there.    I just
>>> figured that after 35 yr of continuesly putting some sort of opiate in my
>>> system
>>> to function that I couldnt ask for more then what I got.
>>>
>>> I also needed that second tx badly.... that second tx for me made all the
>>> difference.  After my first tx I didnt get boosters or did I even know
>>> anything
>>> about rb.. I do think it would of made a difference but it is what it is.
>>>
>>>
>>> ANyways... going back to dope is a choice for sure.  Just not one that I
>>> want
>>> for me.  I hate to see someone give up and give in to it.  It is the
>>> easiest way
>>> for sure.... wont have to grow up but for this addict it is NOT a choice.
>>> I
>>> know what will happen so I am willing to do whatever it takes to keep what
>>> I
>>> have now.
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 4/26/11, Gary<sidskidpiercing at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Gary<sidskidpiercing at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and naltrelone
>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List"<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 4:54 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all.
>>>>
>>>> I have a question regarding my latest attempt at detox...
>>>>
>>>> My psych has agreed to a taper me with mst (slow release morphine
>>>> sulphate) - a
>>>> rare opportunity over here. You can normally only get prescribed morphine
>>>> via a
>>>> private doctor/prescription
>>>>
>>>> So the plan is to stabilise me on the morphine and reduce it over around
>>>> three
>>>> months. At the end I'm going to get oral naltrexone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately ibo didn't work for me when it came to cravings and paws.
>>>>
>>>> I do still have some rb leftover and was wondering if I could use it at
>>>> the end
>>>> of my taper to kick the last of the opiates off the receptors before I
>>>> start the
>>>> naltrexone... ?
>>>>
>>>> Mst continus has quite a long half life and as you all know when swapping
>>>> to
>>>> suboxone/nal you need to go into wd's to avoid precipitated acute wd's.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't really fancy waiting three days in-between the two.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have any thoughts on using some rb maybe the day after my last mst
>>>> dose
>>>> and then start the nal the next day?
>>>>
>>>> I've also heard nal can cause paws on it's own? Anyone have any experience
>>>> of
>>>> this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Obviously I'm anxious about the transfer part. And then if I'm struggling
>>>> with
>>>> wd's once on nal I can't do anything about it!.... Or can rb be used in
>>>> combination maybe for residual paws?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
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