[Ibogaine] Not a good week - Another Death Ibogaine Related

Edward W edwardw at mtciep.com
Mon Mar 14 17:44:25 EDT 2011


Beautiful daughter. It reminds me when my daughter was younger, 
beautiful memories..

___________________
Edward
edwardw at mtciep.com





On 3/14/2011 11:38 AM, Matt S wrote:
> I am all for safety.But every time someone is deprived of the right to 
> take a risk, they are made less free. Total safety would mean a total 
> lack of freedom.I rather enjoy certain physical risks; people die from 
> sports injuries and accidents.If we banned sports (and people actually 
> observed the ban or it was enforced such that they had to) then we 
> could certainly cut down on some deaths.
>
> Taking ibogaine is a risk, and I think it is a risk that, assuming 
> they have been adequately informed of the dangers, people should have 
> the right to take.The two sentences about the mother who gave her son 
> ibogaine and he has apparently ended up brain-dead hurts my heart.I so 
> understand her desperation, no doubt she just wanted to help get her 
> son back from the grips of addiction.Ibogaine must have sounded like 
> something hopeful in a sea of ineffectual options.But that’s exactly 
> what it is, and if the governments of the world will not take their 
> responsibility seriously to understand why it works and what makes it 
> dangerous so they can help to develop a safer option, then taking 
> ibogaine is a risk addicts have a right to take.
>
> Here’s what does not get as much attention on this list, addicts die, 
> A LOT.A week ago I went to a funeral service for yet another person in 
> NA who died from an overdose.I have been to more than just a few of 
> these over the years, and have heard about but did not attend a whole 
> lot more for people who I really didn’t know well.This was a guy who I 
> have known for over 8 years, since before I got clean even.He leaves 
> behind two young kids.
>
> There was a woman in NA who OD’d and also ended up brain dead some 
> years ago.I don’t know what happened to her.Maybe she is still on life 
> support somewhere, maybe they pulled the plug.
>
> I have also had the misfortune of having to say goodbye to people who 
> killed themselves, including my own brother, because they found the 
> pain of abstinence too painful.I went to NA and AA on and off for 
> years and years before I got clean.To me, just stopping getting high 
> was so much more intolerable than the consequences of continuing to 
> get loaded.It was ibogaine that finally gave me enough of a connection 
> to something worthy of the label God that I could actually make NOT 
> USING a viable alternative.Some sort of recognizable spiritual 
> component to my life was just flat out missing before that.Without 
> ibogaine I have no doubt I would be either dead or still getting 
> loaded.Without the gifts ibogaine brought into my life, staying clean 
> was probably never going to work for me.
>
> Every time one of these ibogaine related deaths occur, we only see the 
> front side and for sure it looks like a tragedy, no doubt about it.It 
> makes you feel like it was a waste because even continuing to get high 
> seems preferable to being dead, at least from the outside.Certainly 
> those who love the person in question would think so.At least if they 
> were alive there would be some possibility they could get clean the 
> old fashioned way, and not everyone who does it that way kills 
> themselves.But it’s equally possible that they could have died a week 
> later from a drug overdose, or six months later by their own hand.An 
> ibogaine death may really be only shortening their life by a small 
> amount in a last ditch effort to save it.We don’t know.
>
> And finally I will say this.My daughter would not exist if not for 
> ibogaine.I am certain of it.I never would have met my wife, I never 
> would have allowed myself to have a child in the state I was in, she 
> would not have been born.So ibogaine occasionally gives life too.
>
> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4906156916_297b8138b9_m.jpg
>
>
> Matt
>
> On 3/14/2011 9:08 AM, Edward W wrote:
>> Well said Kevin.
>>
>> ___________________
>> Edward
>> edwardw at mtciep.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/14/2011 8:04 AM, Kevin Walker wrote:
>>>
>>> Diana,
>>>
>>> What is strange though with respect, is from what I understand  the 
>>> woman that administered CPR to the patient couldn’t have been blind, 
>>> generally a person suffering a heart attach wouldn’t have bitten 
>>> through their own tongue, yet she clear stated that the patient had 
>>> a bitten through the tongue. What I also don’t understand is why 
>>> would you take a patient in for treatment without first doing the 
>>> mandatory blood screening and ECG, but rather admitting the patient 
>>> for observation, surely costs would be saved for the patient having 
>>> the screening done before travelling, only to find that you could be 
>>> turned away!
>>>
>>> If you look at the past Ibogaine related deaths including the one I 
>>> had in Mexico the doctor claimed cardiac arrest on the death 
>>> certificate, with out doing an autopsy, similar to the events on 
>>> this death and that was three days after Ibogaine so was it the 
>>> Ibogaine that could have contributed or was it cardiac arrest. If 
>>> you were to speak to Ken Alper for instance you would find that most 
>>> if not all the fatalities, surrounding Ibogaine were very similar in 
>>> there reports, patent stoped breathing followed by cardiac arrest. 
>>> So we know it happens and believe me it can happen to anybody, some 
>>> people die, irrespective of who or what we are, it happens and it 
>>> will happen that’s a chance we take as provider or patient. So what 
>>> I am saying is I believe the kid, and one or two other that were in 
>>> attendance, but what I cant understand is why not just be straight 
>>> with the events. I  as a provider and ex supplier I smell a rat ……my 
>>> thoughts of course.
>>>
>>> As an Ibogaine community from which ever way you look at it, we are 
>>> all in the same boat, we need to have constructive statistics and 
>>> reporting protocol on these events, its not to point fingers, but we 
>>> all want Ibogaine to be accredited a medicine, we are not going to 
>>> convince the FDA of anything if we cant come up with accurate stat’s 
>>> and proper recorders are we ?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Kevin.
>>>
>>> *From:*ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com 
>>> [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] *On Behalf Of *Diane Clayton
>>> *Sent:* 14 March 2011 03:27 PM
>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Not a good week - Another Death Ibogaine 
>>> Related
>>>
>>> Agreed.  And you're right about the kid, who uploaded false info.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*Curtis Madison <crownofthorns1313 at yahoo.com>
>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> *Sent:* Mon, March 14, 2011 7:03:15 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Not a good week - Another Death Ibogaine 
>>> Related
>>>
>>> I'd say the problem is people in general, that rumor which I've 
>>> heard, started because some bro who was being treated there uploaded 
>>> it to facebook a hour later. The diff being that this is where it 
>>> sticks to the web forever, nobody is ever going to find it on 
>>> facebook. I'd say it's sad how poorly different ibo providers treat 
>>> each other, but it's been the same way for as long as I know, only 
>>> back in the day it was Mash against the 'back alley abortionists' 
>>> same story new day.
>>> peace out
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*Diane Clayton <difi61 at yahoo.com>
>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sun, March 13, 2011 11:56:05 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Not a good week - Another Death Ibogaine 
>>> Related
>>>
>>> I know the people in tepoz, who are all honest and responsible 
>>> providers.  I've been told, and there is no reason to doubt the 
>>> truthfulness of the staff, that the man who died was a crystal meth 
>>> addict, and was in the middle of a mandatory 3 day waiting period 
>>> before treatment, as he had gotten high just before his flight to 
>>> Mexico.  He had not had ANY ibogaine at all.  The second day after 
>>> he got there, he never woke up.  He had had a heart attack in his 
>>> sleep.  A call to the man's family revealed a family history of 
>>> heart attacks and problems, and the family in no way blames the 
>>> clinic for what happened.  This death was not ibogaine related.  Why 
>>> does anyone think anything is being hidden?  The way rumors and 
>>> innuendo fly around this site is disturbing.  There are many people 
>>> in this community with malice in their agendas, who spread false 
>>> information and untrue stories as a marketing ploy to boost business 
>>> for their own clinics.  They think that destroying the reputation of 
>>> other clinics will enhance their own, and they don't care whether or 
>>> not what they are saying is true.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*Dens Horne <sisterwind at verizon.net>
>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> *Sent:* Fri, March 11, 2011 11:14:42 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Not a good week - Another Death Ibogaine 
>>> Related
>>>
>>> I so agree that more needs to be understood.  Suggesting doses over 
>>> the net without hands on head to toe assessment.  This I feel is 
>>> very dangerous.  I see disinformation given at different sites.
>>>
>>> The more that is shared the safer the next tx, IMHO.   The less 
>>> hidden the better for the next to travel to Mexico.
>>>
>>> Sister
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 11, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Gary <gary_bryan at blueyonder.co.uk 
>>> <mailto:gary_bryan at blueyonder.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Very sad. But as someone mentioned why would they be left alone
>>>     long enough for it to happen?
>>>
>>>     I guess it also raises negative attention to ibogaine and will no
>>>     doubt catch the attention of the government too.
>>>
>>>     Ive been forwarding as much info as I can find about ibo to my
>>>     psychiatrist. She heads up the local drug addiction unit at the
>>>     hospital so is in the perfect position to help people.
>>>
>>>     It seems a lot if the orthodox medical establishment won't touch
>>>     ibo with a bargepole though unfortunately.
>>>
>>>     I guess because of the qt and liver issue.
>>>
>>>     Such a shame.
>>>
>>>     And these associated deaths don't help the cause as not much
>>>     information about then ever seems to be released. We need to
>>>     understand the full health implications before we can move forward!
>>>
>>>
>>>     Gary Bryan
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 11 Mar 2554 BE, at 14:22, Emma <emma04406 at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:emma04406 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         If he had a seizure it could have been from withdrawl? If a
>>>         provider gives a test dose to check for an allergic reaction,
>>>         why then would you leave the client alone?
>>>
>>>         On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:29 AM, Kevin Walker
>>> <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za <mailto:kevin at ibogainesa.co.za>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Chris yes I heard conflicting information as well hence I said
>>>         the information I received was sketchy. But I to heard that
>>>         the patient had received a partial dose as a test dose, on
>>>         doing a routine check on the patient later, he wasdiscovered
>>>         blue in colour and not breathing vital signs were non
>>>         existent,the person that offered to facilitate CPR on opening
>>>         the mouth discovered that the patientstonguehad beenbitten,
>>>         indicative of a possible seizure. It would be great if Richie
>>>         or someonefrom the centre with knowledge of the facts could
>>>         fillus in!
>>>
>>>         Idon’t know if is because more people are being treated
>>>         lately, Ibogaine more feelyavailable but there have been a
>>>         fewincidents of late, and very little is know. I think it
>>>         would be helpful to providers and product suppliers to be made
>>>         aware of these things,helping in collecting actual stats
>>>         forresearch.
>>>
>>>         -----Original Message-----
>>>         From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com
>>> <mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com>
>>>         [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of
>>>         cbava108 at gmail.com <mailto:cbava108 at gmail.com>
>>>         Sent: 11 March 2011 12:47 AM
>>>         To: The Ibogaine List
>>>         Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Not a good week - Another Death
>>>         Ibogaine Related
>>>
>>>         I heard about these unfortunate events, on one hand I was 
>>> told the
>>>
>>>         person in Tepoztian had been given ibogaine and on the other
>>>         that he
>>>
>>>         hadn't. It would be helpful to know what happened in these
>>>
>>>         circumstances.
>>>
>>>         On 3/10/11, Kevin Walker <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za
>>> <mailto:kevin at ibogainesa.co.za>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > News from the US is that another Ibogaine patient, has lost
>>>         his life at a
>>>
>>> > clinic in Tepoztlan Mexico this past weekend. Details
>>>         surrounding the death
>>>
>>> > are sketchy but the patient was a 40 year old male. He leaves
>>>         his family in
>>>
>>> > San Diego.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > Just two days ago Dmitri was arrested in Seattle, and an
>>>         investigation is
>>>
>>> > under way!
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > The week before that a 25 year old male was declared brain
>>>         dead after a dose
>>>
>>> > of Ibogaine had be administered by his mother. The patient
>>>         stoped breathing,
>>>
>>> > cardiac arrest followed, he was then transported to a
>>>         hospital where they
>>>
>>> > managed to get his heart going but there is no brain activity.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
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