From jlspence12 at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 00:46:14 2010 From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:46:14 -0600 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another ibogaine death - at San Miguel Allende In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4261EA3A-1F7A-4FCD-81E1-FD8FB5758252@gmail.com> Woman, ibogaine is "not" risk free!!! I doubt anybody here knows how or why she died.... Its is always a sad thing when somebody dies, but going around "blaming" people for it, its not the answer... I don't not even know her.... I never did... ' I have not been out of my home town because a illness that's lasted for 13 years... I doubt you find anybody on here that will be able to tell you what cause her to died... Dying is a RISK!! OF TREATMENT!! STAYING ON MEDS FOR LIFE IS A RISK TOO! I just saying.. bothering people on this list for info nobody knows on here, is most likely not going to help you find out "why" Its not common, but it does happen... It can happen with a simple surgery also!!! with MD's right there!! And many times, no body knows "why" I got IC at 21, and everybody want to know what causes IC, lady, NOBODY FREAKEN KNOWS!! You are barking up the wrong tree here on the list... no body here is going to be able to tell you the "why" to that... She might have die, doing it the old fashion way that all these doctors here in the USA think "nothing of" when they "send you out of their office"(like a pile of shit, to suffer your ass off!!!) in withdraw.. and then you go home to shit all over your self!! and swim in your own feces and vomit..... and rock back and forth in the bed, paying for death!!! So you know, I really doubt your going to get anybody here to be able to tell you "how" or "why" "or what happened" I sure nobody even knows "why" Why is the sky blue ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I mean, there just no way anybody going to be able to tell you the how of that... I don't even know why she was, I am just speaking because you sound like the "police" or something.. Most everybody knows here there is some risk getting treated...... but for the most part most people don't die.... its not highly common, but it can happen, the same in surgery, or anything that Doctors do or give you here in the states, yet people think nothing of it and it goes on everyday... US approved meds are not risk free. Getting treated by a MD is not risk free... I am so sick of people pointing fingers, and blaming others, or a person "own" "choices" And it always seems to be the highly religious people also... they have a highly common tread to them.. and the small minded ways they "think" and it pisses me the fuck off!! Lady, I really hope to god you didn't come here to start trouble..... Patrick, this lady contacted me and acted like I knew, a bunch of bs... like i know any of these people who treat with ibogaine.... Right, I have not been out of Indiana in years over a crazy bladder disease I've been fighting for the past 13 years.. Please lady, do not come here to bother people about which nome of know anything about... I doubt anybody knows "why" she died..... I happens, and it should be taken in account, and tried to be provented if at all possible.. But at the end of the day staying addicted(out of control use) or dependent(controlled use, which nobody gets the difference, and YES LADY, THERE IS A FUCKEN DIFFERENCE AND I AM SOOOO SICK OF IDIOTS, AND RELIGIOUS CRAZIES NOT FUCKING KNOW THE FREAKEN DIFFERENCE!!! IT PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF!!!) has its risk to it... And sadly, ibogaine has its risk too it also... Again, i did not know that person who died, I am truly sorry any died that seeks treatment... Ibogaine is still not completely tested yet, and the Why have not be found out completely when people die... I blame the USA DEA, they won't allow the tested to happen, they stand in the way of research that could be of a lot of value, but NO, OUR IDIOTIC COUNTRY FULL OF BULL SHIT!! AND NA AND AA CRAP, AND DON'T JUST SAY NO, AND ALL THIS OTHER SHIT THAT EVERY BODY, EVEN JUDGES KNOW, "DOES NOT FUCKEN WORK" BUT NO, WE STAY ON THE SAME OLD FUCKING PATH!!! I BLAME THE USA AND THE DEA ON HER DYING!! IF WE HAD MORE STUDIES ON IBOGAINE AND ITS EFFECTS, IT MIGHT MAKE IT SAFER!! BUT NO!! WE GOT THIS O TOLERANCE, OVERLY RELIGIOUS!! IDOTIC, THIS SUB, BAD, THIS SUBS IS GOOD, THIS IS WHAT THE FUCK EVER!1 I AM ABOUT AT MY FUCKING END WITH THIS BS TRAIN OF THOUGHT!! GOOD LUCK LADY!!! PATRICK, THIS LADY HAS BOTHERED ME!! AND I DON'T "NOT" KNOW WHERE THIS WOMEN HAS CAME FROM... SHE NEARLY SOUNDS LIKE "A COP" IT MAY BE WISE TO BLOCK THIS WOMEN.... I KNOW LIKING THE BS THAT'S COMING COME THIS LADY... ITS SOUNDS POLICE'Y I don't know how she got my email... and i really don't like it when people think things of me, when they don't have a fucking clue who I am, or anything about me in general.. I am going to say it watch your self around this lady.. I don't like the polcey nature of her post, and email me out of no where, when i don't have a clue who this women is, or even knew anything about the women who sadly died, RIP J On Feb 16, 2010, at 12:55 AM, Becky wrote: > Would please tell me more about the death Kristina Pollock. > I was Pierre Lepoureau's wife during the planning stages of the > clinic. > I am sick about this. > > Becky Gili > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 02:05:05 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:05:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] TA extraction tec In-Reply-To: <265841.95929.qm@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <165402.43067.qm@web55908.mail.re3.yahoo.com> LMAO, okay so I finally got one of the first drafts I sent the other day... The one posted by Patrick is the newest one, so everyone can disregard anything else.. I only added minor details, or changed a bit of wording or added a tip here and there, but the one Patrick put up for me, was the newest update, and the newest, so it's probably the best and easiest to understand with all added details and extra info I could append.. Much love, HH --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > From: Helpful Hopeful > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] TA extraction tec > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:20 AM > Here is the ingredients list: > > What you need: Plain white distilled vinegar, a stainless > steel, ceramic, HDPE, or non-reactive container, janitorial > strength (10%+) non-sudsy ammonia (Ace Hardware), distilled > water, a funnel, coffee filters, old t-shirt, and the iboga > bark. > > Optional for added purity: Acetone, muriatic acid (28-36% > HCl), and Everclear? (95% pure ethanol). > > I have posted the whole extraction a couple times, but I > will add it in it's entirety again for anyone who may have > missed it, with some added notes on purification from an old > email from Howard at the end.? > > It also contains even better measurements than the original > tek I posted, when it comes to using the acetone and > hydrochloric (aka muriatic) acid.? > > The extra purity for pure ibogaine HCl, may need a couple > more supplies, but IMHO, is not needed, unless someone just > really wants to be sure and use 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl. > > So here it is again: > > Okay, new UPDATED tek with added tips: > > The Extraction: > > What you need: Plain white distilled vinegar, a stainless > steel, ceramic, HDPE, or non-reactive container, janitorial > strength (10%+) non-sudsy ammonia, distilled water, a > funnel, coffee filters, old t-shirt, and the iboga bark. > > Optional for added purity: Acetone, muriatic acid (28-36% > HCl), and Everclear? (95% pure ethanol). > > 1: Take the bark, and make sure it's as fine of a powder as > possible. > > 2: Add enough vinegar to thoroughly cover the bark. A good > measurement for the vinegar is about 5 times the amount > (volume) of vinegar to the weight of bark. > > In this instance 40g of bark times 5 would be about 200 mls > of vinegar per soak. One may need slightly more in the first > couple extractions to thoroughly cover the bark, and excess > can be used safely, however it will lengthen the time of > filtering later, so try and keep the volumes minimal. > > 3: The bark can be stirred occasionally, and left to sit > for at least one hour. > > Adding heat makes the bark harder to filter, and isn't > necessary. > > 4: After an hour has passed, one needs to filter the bark > from the vinegar with a cloth t-shirt. Squeeze out the bark > to gather all the vinegar and save this. > > The bark is then returned to the container for another > soak. This should be done 4 times to be sure to get out all > the alkaloids. (One can taste the bark when dried to see if > any bitterness remains, however, after 4 soaks, it seemed to > remove nearly all the bitterness from the bark for me.) > > 5: While letting the bark soak again, as in the previous > steps, filter the collected vinegar through coffee filters. > > This can take a long time to filter, since the coffee > filters clog easily, and may need to be replaced often. Have > patience though. If you can leave it sitting in the funnel, > with a filter, the juice will eventually pass through. This > filtering isn't 100% necessary but it will help remove all > the finest plant particles from the solution, so the initial > extraction will come out cleaner, so it's a good idea, IMO. > > 6: Once all the vinegar has been collected and filtered > through a coffee filter, you have two options. > > The first would be to evaporate the vinegar a bit, by using > low heat and a fan. Under boiling (do not boil!) is fine to > reduce the vinegar, and will make it easier to deal with > less liquid.? A fan blowing over a heater vent worked > well for me. You don't want to evaporate it to thickness, > though, just enough to make it easy to work with in a > smaller container. > > The second option is to skip the evaporation and proceed > directly to the next step, which can save time. > > 7: Once you have all your vinegar collected, and evaporated > a good bit, if you choose, you are ready to add the ammonia. > You can slowly pour ammonia into the vinegar, to make it > basic. pH papers/pens aren't needed, but if used, just make > sure the pH is above 10.1.? Ibogaine's pKa is 8.1. > (from sources on the internet) > > As you add the ammonia, the solution will heat slightly, > and you will see cloudy precipitate forming. You can add > more ammonia, to be sure, as too much won't hurt, it will > just add to the amount of solution that needs to be > filtered, which can take awhile. > > 8: Now, if left to settle (can take a few hours), the > precipitate (freebase total alkaloids) will sink to the > bottom of the container. The majority of the clear solution > at the top can be siphoned off, and filtered to be sure no > precipitate is in it. > > If it looks clear (tea colored, still), not cloudy though, > all the precipitate should have sunken to the bottom. By > removing a large portion of the upper clear (tea colored) > water, this will allow you to have much less solution to > filter out your alkaloids. > > You can save everything you siphoned off and add more > ammonia later, to be sure you got out all the freebase > alkaloids, but it didn't seem to make any difference for > me. > > 9: Now you can filter the muddy, alkaloid containing > solution through coffee filters. > > Filtering this can take a good bit as the precipitate > begins to clog the filter, but again, be patient, as the > solution will eventually pass through the filter completely. > This may take overnight, so don't worry if it takes a long > time. Once you have filtered the solution, you can set aside > the clear tea colored water for later, to add more ammonia, > just to be sure you collected all the precipitate. > > 10: You should now have a coffee filter with all the brown > freebase precipitate stuck to it. You should then add a > liberal amount of distilled water to the filter in the > funnel. You will THOROUGHLY rinse the precipitate with the > distilled water to wash away any extra impurities (ammonium > acetate). > > Again, waiting for the water to pass through the alkaloid > coated coffee filter may take awhile, so just have > patience. > > 11: This precipitate can then be placed in front of a fan > with a warm air current, away from UV light, and left to > dry. > > This is now your crude (estimated from Chris' notes at > 40-50% pure) freebase total alkaloid extract. This can be > capped when dry and used as is, and should be much cleaner > than the simple vinegar extraction. However, for those that > want it more pure, there are two options. > > First option: > > 1: Take the filter with the dried crusty precipitate and > break up the precipitate to a fine powder. You can use the > same filter, or take a new one and place it in a funnel that > is plugged (I use a two liter bottle with the bottom cut off > for a funnel, so capping the opening can seal it, but a > finger may be used). Add the crushed precipitate to the > plugged funnel and saturate it with vinegar to dissolve as > much as possible. > > 2: Let the vinegar sit in the filter with the precipitate, > maybe stir it around a bit in the filter, then let it drain > through, and save the vinegar. > > Be careful not to poke a hole in the filter while > stirring/agitating. > > 3: You can repeat with fresh vinegar another time, and > collect all the vinegar. > > 4: Add ammonia to the vinegar again, to precipitate the > alkaloids, which should be even cleaner this time. > > 5: Re-filter out all the alkaloids, rinse thoroughly with > distilled water, and let dry as above. > > This can now be used as is and should be even cleaner. > > > Second (more involved) option, for much more pure TA: > > Okay so you have your brown precipitate in your coffee > filter, now dried up, from the first portion of the > extraction. > > 1: You now, take your acetone and add 15-18 mls of acetone > per gram of freebase TA extract (brown freebase powder), and > soak freebase in the filter with it. You can stir around the > precipitate in the filter (again be careful not to poke a > hole in it), and wash it two or three times with the SAME > acetone. Do not go over 18 mls per gram of brown TA > freebase, but be sure to soak as much color from the solid > as possible. The filter should contain any bark crud, and > any other impurities, when finished. > > This will remove the alkaloids from the solid filtrand > (insoluble plant gunk that's left in the filter), since the > freebase is soluble in acetone. Chris Jenks says about > 50-60% of the crud is left behind as insoluble plant > material. > > 2: Take your muriatic acid (hydrogen chloride in a water > solution, aka hydrochloric acid in solution), and add it > very slowly, to the acetone. You must do this drop wise, and > watch as the precipitate forms. (One milliliter for each six > grams of TA) is added in small portions, slowly, until the > precipitation of the solid begins. > > If you own a pH tester, when the acetone is at pH 6.1, 99% > of the ibogaine should be converted to the HCl salt form, > and precipitate out, or be caught in the tiny amount of > water that the HCl is mixed with (with 1 ml of muriatic > acid, the water is negligible). This can be filtered out, > and the tiny bit of water separated, and left to evaporate > to be sure to recover all the iboga alkaloid HCl salts > (wasn't necessary for me). > > Adding too much acid can start to redissolve the ibogaine > HCl. You can add a few drops at a time, and watch as the > precipitate forms. When it stops forming, you can place this > into the fridge, to chill for a few hours (overnight may be > better), before filtering, and this will increase the yield. > > > 3: Filter out the ibogaine HCl. > > This is nearly pure TA HCl, but there may be a bit left in > the acetone, and other residual alkaloids will also be in > the acetone. You can evaporate some of the acetone with a > fan and low heat, then remove any acidic water from the > acetone, and let it evaporate to collect anything there. > Then treat the reduced acetone with the muriatic acid again > (a drop or two), and harvest any more crystals of ibogaine > HCl that precipitate. Filter it out as well and add it to > the first precipitate. > > Another option would be to gas HCl acid though the acetone > to precipitate the ibogaine HCl crystals, but this can be > covered later, if anyone is really interested.? I > haven't tried this with ibogaine HCl, but am pretty sure > it'd work fine, although it is more difficult and requires a > few more supplies. > > 4: If you would like pure ibogaine HCl, without the other > alkaloids, you can take the ibogaine HCl crystals, and > dissolve it in boiling ethanol. > > The boiling ethanol should be added drop wise, just until > all the ibogaine HCl has dissolved. > > 5: This ethanol solution is then left to cool in the fridge > and the ibogaine will recrystallize. > > This will make the ibogaine HCl form much more pure > crystals and can remove some of the ibogamine/ibogaline if > still present in the precipitate. > > It is not necessary unless going for 98%+ purity, and > repeated recrystallizations can yield very pure ibogaine > HCl, but can cost a bit of yield. The ibogaline and > ibogamine have very similar action as ibogaine and may also > provide similar effects, so are fine for using for a > session. > > There are added notes below for those chemistry nuts that > want PURE ibogaine HCl. > > When this is dry, it is ready to take. > > 6: For those who want to recover all the alkaloids, so they > can take a complete total alkaloid extract (or Total Active > Alkaloid extract, aka TAA) of high purity, they should take > the acetone that they salted/preciptated out the ibogaine > HCl, and evaporate it in front of a fan with warm air > current. > > The resulting leftover alkaloids will be an unstable oil. > > 7: Dissolve this oil in distilled water. > > 8: Add ammonia to this water with the oil dissolved into > it. > > You will again see the freebase residual alkaloids > precipitate out of the water/ammonia solution. > > 9: Filter out the freebase alkaloids, and rinse again > thoroughly with distilled water. > > 10: Let the freebase residual alkaloids dry completely. > > You can then add your freebase residual alkaloids to your > ibogaine HCl, and capsulize it. Freebases will be converted > to the HCl salts in your stomach, so turning them into the > HCl salt before ingesting is probably unnecessary. > > This Purified Total Alkaloid extract, or PTA, should be > considered very pure, and a 15-20 mg/kg dose of this (mainly > for addiction treatment at this level) is just as powerful, > if not more so, as the pure ibogaine HCl, so estimate your > dosage with this extract accordingly. This is powerful > medicine and going higher than 25 mg/kg could cause > complications, so don't be a hero. This also lasts in the > system for months, so it's recommended not to take another > flood dose within 60-90 days minimum, to be safe. > > This is optional and has not been tried by myself, so if > Chris or anyone out there thinks there are any updates, more > details, or improvements, please feel free to add them, as > the final purification to pure ibogaine HCl, was not my > goal, just a much more pure TA. > > Further purification notes, for those wanting pure ibogaine > HCl, without the added alkaloids, from here: http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/032899.html > > Purification of ibogaine from the total alkaloids. > > The total alkaloids from the extraction step is dissolved > in ethyl acetate > (minimum) and treated with norite (measurements anyone?), > filtered and evaporated to dryness. The residue is dissolved > in hot ethanol. After chilling for two or three days, the > crude ibogaine is filtered and the filtrate is evaporated to > half volume, chilled for one day and a second crop of > ibogaine is collected. > > The crude ibogaine is recrystallized from ethanol. This > product is dissolved in toluene and filtered through three > times its weight of neutral alumina(activity 1), and the > column washed with toluene. Evaporation of the solvent > crystallization of the residue from ethanol yields a pure > sample of ibogaine. > > Ibogaine hydrochloride > > To a stirred solution of ibogaine in minimum acetone is > added aqueous HCl > (1:1) dropwise (excess). The crystalline ibogaine > hydrochloride separates > immediately. The product is filtered and washed with > acetone. It is > recrystallized from ethanol yielding a white salt. > > Extra tips: > > Norite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norite > > Ethyl Acetate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate > > Also, this further purification requires a chromatography > column, neutral alumina to pack the column, and toluene, so > it may be a bit more difficult for the kitchen chemist > without the proper tools..? It also lacks measurements, > and details, so I'd need to play around to find them > myself. > > Honestly, the added purification is not really needed, > especially if one only wants a Purified TA or PTAA.? It > is only necessary if 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl is desired. > > Hope this has everything anyone needs, but I can help out > if anyone has any questions, up to the further purification, > as I don't have a chromatography column, and didn't have > enough bark to waste any of the extra alkaloids from the > root bark.? > > I haven't tried to make pure ibogaine HCl since the > PTA/PTAA that comes out, looks plenty clean, removes all the > plant material, makes the dosage easy to calculate, and may > be easier on sensitive stomachs, although nausea is still > common with even the pure alkaloids.? > > I have read that the pure ibogaine HCl is even more gentle > on the stomach, but haven't had the experience myself, so I > can't give a personal account. > > If any experts out there have any critiques for the updated > tek, please feel free to add whatever you can.? Big > thanks to Chris Jenks!!? Also, thanks to panoramix over > at the DMT-Nexus.com for helping add some measurements for > the purification. > > I've tried to make this as clear and detailed as possible, > and watching Chris' presentation from the ibogaine > conference can help with pictures, for those who are visual > learners.. > > http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4730969? (This one > has the extraction by Chris Jenks, with pictures and his > description. He starts 1:00:00 in, but plenty of good info > before hand.) > > Best of luck to everyone, and please use this with utmost > respect and responsibility, as we don't need to lose ANYONE > (else) with this medicine! > > Respectfully, > > HH > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, sv > wrote: > > > From: sv > > Subject: [Ibogaine] TA extraction tec > > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:34 AM > > > > > >? > >? > > > > > >? > > Hi again hopeful. if its > > not too much trouble could > > you write out a list of all the ingredients needed (as > well > > as volume) and > > supplies needed? this would be helpful. > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > > [%][) > > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > ? ? ? > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 03:47:45 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 00:47:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <4B896D74.5070208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <670873.72802.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). Then the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. That should kick in the ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at around 3, I will take the flood dose. This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. I think by then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. Worse comes to worse I could prep an enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last time.. I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. I also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. Years ago I tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to extract various plants. The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, unless I dose well over a gram, at least. And even if I do throw up, it's usually pretty well absorbed by then.. The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. I flew over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would have been taking my dose, when I arrived. I was starting to feel the withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little chunk of the ibo TA. Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, maybe a little bigger? Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the store that I'd need, etc. We went back, and then that evening I ate my flood dose. I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing you know it was hitting me strong. I started having full on waking dreams, and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. That is when I was trying to hide in my covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for me). Then I threw up a lot. I would stop for a little while, then throw up again. Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember everything. I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. I ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. Probably just had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. I didn't get any diarrhea, or anything, but I sure did puke enough. Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. I did pick up smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers and drank a bit here and there. I didn't ever develop a habit (except for the cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it was time to stop. I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. I could watch people do heroin, helped a real sick buddy find a vein even. Could turn down coke, pills, anything, and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. After 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything but my family and friends to be happy. I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I would never get addicted to anything again. I did opiates a few times, didn't really care for em anymore. I always hated everything about coke but the rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). Alcohol was only nice when I drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just stop and be done with it. For years I didn't have a drink. I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. Then, one night after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a guy on a skateboard. I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. I got on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. So I tried again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. I could feel my collarbone snap. I knew it was broke, cause it ain't the first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. I had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. Previously, for broken bones I'd take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and I'd just give the rest away. Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the way through, not just a hairline fracture. I went to the hospital, and they x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. The ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I went back. They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come back in week. I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. So I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs around a buck a pod. For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a single dose. No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 hours. So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. I was still having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using them for a few months. I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, down another pod, down to a pod a day. I started weighing them accurately, and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. But I would feel sick every morning. Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a day. I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than those few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other alkaloids in em. So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. I usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another pill. I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either trying to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking over my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get done. Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy to go get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum of work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much harder these last couple years. I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see if that will start to boost my energy. I really have to push myself to do it, but I want to make the change. I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. So I am trying to get started on them now. I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some decent, healthier food. So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure out which day my sitter is going to have off. I don't know why I rambled on so long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I just got carried away. If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I thank you all for listening. I know many of you out there are caring souls, always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. Other than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends that help keep me going every day. I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). I am very proud to be a be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around me. Much love, friends. Many Blessings To All!! HH --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S wrote: > From: Matt S > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM > > > > > > > If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 > hours after a > heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal.? > After having done a > few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and > methadone, my > experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate > dose seems to > have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed > opiate free > afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you > are full on sick > in order to be safe.? I am not recommending anyone try > what I did, it > probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger > or the dose > larger.? My treatment for methadone was probably close > to 36 hours > after my last methadone dose and that was so successful > that it was the > final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago > now.? > > > > My feeling is that you should continue to take your > morphine as you > have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the > extract that > morning as soon as you wake up.? Don't give > yourself a bunch of time to > think about it or talk yourself out of it.? Schedule > it in advance and > then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it.? > Let your sitter > know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take > enough time > to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the > lights and > bedding situated and then go for it.? You won't > have time to dwell on > being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a > better idea than > ibogaine.? I don't think you need a test dose > either.? My understanding > of the test dose is that it is intended to test for > allergic reaction > but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an > allergic > reaction.? Since you have done treatments before I > would say skip it. > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > Helpful Hopeful wrote: > > Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low > point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant > withdrawal. I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours > before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. > > I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked > in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get > higher. I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. > 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much > discomfort. But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by > now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me > discomfort and more depression. > > I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for > it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at > about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. I have some > things I really need to get done that I have been putting > off due to depression. I went ahead and took my dose of MS, > at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the > 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. > > After remembering how it went last time, with mild > withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped > contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open > in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first > dose. I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling > the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, > rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. > > Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up > the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka > morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is > probably not playing much of a role. In the prescribing > info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or > grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the > opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could > cause overdose. > > It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the > internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I > am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to > take a small test dose. This should quell my withdrawal and > then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go > ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start > feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. > > Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free > day. I don't want to be under the full influence of the > iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, > I'll be able to manage. I am planning on trying again > real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all > this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I > don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. > > I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about > to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and > advice. I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and > unmotivated. The longer I sit like this, the longer > it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to > go ahead and do it. > > NO FEAR!! :) > > HH > > > n Sat, 2/27/10, sv > wrote: > > > > From: sv > Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM > > > > > > > > Hi HH- i would suggest > that the depression you are > experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are > taking. What is your > plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness? before > taking the TA? In my > experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband > had tapered to 400mg > of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was > successful. He did experience > PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS > free! > i don't think it would > work to divide your dose > into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be > that 15mg of morphine > would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal > starting or at the very > least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks > for the updated > tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a > desire to venture into > chemistry. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: > (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: > (]=- > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 04:17:18 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:17:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine "wall" In-Reply-To: <23286.62808.qm@web55905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <102098.6400.qm@web55908.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Here it is: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine2.pdf It's in that file. There is a section called "Hitting the Wall".. Hope this helps! HH --- On Sun, 2/28/10, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > From: Helpful Hopeful > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine "wall" > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 8:32 AM > I read about a couple treatments on a > pdf file with that info, I'll see if I can't dig it > up.? They would go two or 3 weeks on, then a week or > two off, than 3 weeks on again, or something to that > effect.? I don't remember all the details, especially > about not sleeping, but I'll look around and see if I can't > find the cases I am referring to.. > > HH > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Dana Beal > wrote: > > > From: Dana Beal > > Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine "wall" > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 1:02 PM > > Kendall > > Silver?has any > > one heard of the lbogaine wall that happens three > weeks into > > low dose Ibo therapy ? the user supposodly is unable > to > > sleep when they hit this "wall" .Low dose therapy > > is currently very popular for terminaly Ill patients > to > > maximize the effect of morphine ,bringing patients as > low as > > 2 mill. aday instead of 60 mill. per day ,but after > they hit > > the Ibo wall sleep is not possible and the patient > stops > > taking Ibo for aprox. one month ,then resumes low > dose > > therapy {5 mill. > > aday} > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > > [%][) > > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > ? ? ? > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 06:02:23 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:02:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine PTA/HCl extraction, with addendums (Final Draft, second time sent) ; -) In-Reply-To: <693258.75997.qm@web55902.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <214692.67987.qm@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Haha, see, here they come, but like I said, just refer to the newest one that Patrick posted, for me, thanks! HH --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > From: Helpful Hopeful > Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine PTA/HCl extraction, with addendums (Final Draft, second time sent) ; -) > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 12:12 PM > I have posted the whole extraction a > couple times, but I will add it in it's entirety again, with > some added notes on purification from an old email from > Howard at the end. > > It also contains even better measurements than the original > tek I posted, when it comes to using the acetone and > hydrochloric (aka muriatic) acid. > > The extra purity for pure ibogaine HCl, may need a couple > more supplies, but IMHO , is not needed, unless someone just > really wants to be sure and use 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl. > > So here it is again: > > Okay, new UPDATED tek with added tips: > > The Extraction: > > What you need: Plain white distilled vinegar, a stainless > steel, ceramic, HDPE 2, or non-reactive container, > janitorial strength (10%+) non-sudsy ammonia, distilled > water, a funnel, coffee filters, old t-shirt, and the iboga > bark. > > A clear, non-reactive container for performing the > extraction helps a lot, when watching the reactions, BTW. > > Optional for added purity: Acetone, muriatic acid (28-36% > HCl), and Everclear? (95% pure ethanol). > > 1: Take the bark, and make sure it's as fine of a powder as > possible. > > 2: Add enough vinegar to thoroughly cover the bark. A good > measurement for the vinegar is about 5 times the amount > (volume) of vinegar to the weight of bark. > > In this instance 40g of bark times 5 would be about 200 mls > of vinegar per soak. One may need slightly more in the first > couple extractions to thoroughly cover the bark, and excess > can be used safely, however it will lengthen the time of > filtering later, so try and keep the volumes minimal. > > 3: The bark can be stirred occasionally, and left to sit > for at least one hour. > > Adding heat makes the bark harder to filter, and isn't > necessary. > > 4: After an hour has passed, one needs to filter the bark > from the vinegar with a cloth t-shirt. Squeeze out the bark > to gather all the vinegar and save this. > > The bark is then returned to the container for another > soak. This should be done 4 times to be sure to get out all > the alkaloids. (One can taste the bark when dried to see if > any bitterness remains, however, after 4 soaks, it seemed to > remove nearly all the bitterness from the bark for me.) > > 5: While letting the bark soak again, as in the previous > steps, filter the collected vinegar through coffee filters. > > This can take a long time to filter, since the coffee > filters clog easily, and may need to be replaced often. Have > patience though. If you can leave it sitting in the funnel, > with a filter, the juice will eventually pass through. This > filtering isn't 100% necessary but it will help remove all > the finest plant particles from the solution, so the initial > extraction will come out cleaner, so it's a good idea, IMO. > > 6: Once all the vinegar has been collected and filtered > through a coffee filter, you have two options. > > The first would be to evaporate the vinegar a bit, by using > low heat and a fan. Under boiling (do not boil!) is fine to > reduce the vinegar, and will make it easier to deal with > less liquid. A fan blowing over a heater vent worked well > for me. You don't want to evaporate it to thickness, though, > just enough to make it easy to work with in a smaller > container. > > The second option is to skip the evaporation and proceed > directly to the next step, which can save time. > > 7: Once you have all your vinegar collected, and evaporated > a good bit, if you choose, you are ready to add the ammonia. > You can slowly pour ammonia into the vinegar, to make it > basic. pH? papers/pens aren't needed, but if used, just > make sure the pH? is above 10.1. Ibogaine's pKa is 8.1. > (from sources on the internet) > > As you add the ammonia, the solution will heat slightly, > and you will see cloudy precipitate forming. You can add > more ammonia, to be sure, as too much won't hurt, it will > just add to the amount of solution that needs to be > filtered, which can take awhile. > > 8: Now, if left to settle (can take a few hours), the > precipitate (freebase total alkaloids) will sink to the > bottom of the container. The majority of the clear solution > at the top can be siphoned off, and filtered to be sure no > precipitate is in it. > > If it looks clear (tea colored, still), not cloudy though, > all the precipitate should have sunken to the bottom. By > removing a large portion of the upper clear (tea colored) > water, this will allow you to have much less solution to > filter out your alkaloids. > > You can save everything you siphoned off and add more > ammonia later, to be sure you got out all the freebase > alkaloids, but it didn't seem to make any difference for > me. > > 9: Now you can filter the muddy, alkaloid containing > solution through coffee filters. > > Filtering this can take a good bit as the precipitate > begins to clog the filter, but again, be patient, as the > solution will eventually pass through the filter completely. > This may take overnight, so don't worry if it takes a long > time. Once you have filtered the solution, you can set aside > the clear tea colored water for later, to add more ammonia, > just to be sure you collected all the precipitate. > > 10: You should now have a coffee filter with all the brown > freebase precipitate stuck to it. You should then add a > liberal amount of distilled water to the filter in the > funnel. You will THOROUGHLY rinse the precipitate with the > distilled water to wash away any extra impurities (ammonium > acetate). > > Again, waiting for the water to pass through the alkaloid > coated coffee filter may take awhile, so just have > patience. > > 11: This precipitate can then be placed in front of a fan > with a warm air current, away from UV light, and left to > dry. > > This is now your crude (estimated from Chris' notes at > 40-50% pure) freebase total alkaloid extract. This can be > capped when dry and used as is, and should be much cleaner > than the simple vinegar extraction. However, for those that > want it more pure, there are two options. > > First option: > > 1: Take the filter with the dried crusty precipitate and > break up the precipitate to a fine powder. You can use the > same filter, or take a new one and place it in a funnel that > is plugged (I use a two liter bottle with the bottom cut off > for a funnel, so capping the opening can seal it, but a > finger may be used). Add the crushed precipitate to the > plugged funnel and saturate it with vinegar to dissolve as > much as possible. > > 2: Let the vinegar sit in the filter with the precipitate, > maybe stir it around a bit in the filter, then let it drain > through, and save the vinegar. > > Be careful not to poke a hole in the filter while > stirring/agitating. > > 3: You can repeat with fresh vinegar another time, and > collect all the vinegar. > > 4: Add ammonia to the vinegar again, to precipitate the > alkaloids, which should be even cleaner this time. > > 5: Re-filter out all the alkaloids, rinse thoroughly with > distilled water, and let dry as above. > > This can now be used as is and should be even cleaner. > > > Second (more involved) option, for much more pure TA: > > Okay so you have your brown precipitate in your coffee > filter, now dried up, from the first portion of the > extraction. > > 1: You now, take your acetone and add 15-18 mls of acetone > per gram of freebase TA extract (brown freebase powder), and > soak freebase in the filter with it. You can stir around the > precipitate in the filter (again be careful not to poke a > hole in it), and wash it two or three times with the SAME > acetone. Do not go over 18 mls per gram of brown TA > freebase, but be sure to soak as much color from the solid > as possible. The filter should contain any bark crud, and > any other impurities, when finished. > > This will remove the alkaloids from the solid filtrand > (insoluble plant gunk that's left in the filter), since the > freebase is soluble in acetone. Chris Jenks says about > 50-60% of the crud is left behind as insoluble plant > material. > > 2: Take your muriatic acid (hydrogen chloride in a water > solution, aka hydrochloric acid in solution), and add it > very slowly, to the acetone. You must do this drop wise, and > watch as the precipitate forms. (One milliliter for each six > grams of TA) is added in small portions, slowly, until the > precipitation of the solid begins. > > If you own a pH? tester, when the acetone is at > pH? 6.1, 99% of the ibogaine should be converted to the > HCl salt form, and precipitate out, or be caught in the tiny > amount of water that the HCl is mixed with (with 1 ml of > muriatic acid, the water is negligible). This can be > filtered out, and the tiny bit of water separated, and left > to evaporate to be sure to recover all the iboga alkaloid > HCl salts (wasn't necessary for me). > > Adding too much acid can start to redissolve the ibogaine > HCl. You can add a few drops at a time, and watch as the > precipitate forms. When it stops forming, you can place this > into the fridge, to chill for a few hours (overnight may be > better), before filtering, and this will increase the > yield. > > 3: Filter out the ibogaine HCl. > > This is nearly pure TA HCl, but there may be a bit left in > the acetone, and other residual alkaloids will also be in > the acetone. You can evaporate some of the acetone with a > fan and low heat, then remove any acidic water from the > acetone, and let it evaporate to collect anything there. > Then treat the reduced acetone with the muriatic acid again > (a drop or two), and harvest any more crystals of ibogaine > HCl that precipitate. Filter it out as well and add it to > the first precipitate. > > Another option would be to gas HCl acid though the acetone > to precipitate the ibogaine HCl crystals, but this can be > covered later, if anyone is really interested. I haven't > tried this with ibogaine HCl, but am pretty sure it'd work > fine, although it is more difficult and requires a few more > supplies. > > 4: If you would like pure ibogaine HCl, without the other > alkaloids, you can take the ibogaine HCl crystals, and > dissolve it in boiling ethanol. > > The boiling ethanol should be added drop wise, just until > all the ibogaine HCl has dissolved. > > 5: This ethanol solution is then left to cool in the fridge > and the ibogaine will recrystallize. > > This will make the ibogaine HCl form much more pure > crystals and can remove some of the ibogamine/ibogaline if > still present in the precipitate. > > It is not necessary unless going for 98%+ purity, and > repeated recrystallization can yield very pure ibogaine HCl, > but can cost a bit of yield. The ibogaline and ibogamine > have very similar action as ibogaine and may also provide > similar effects, so are fine for using for a session. > > There are added notes below for those chemistry nuts that > want PURE ibogaine HCl. > > When this is dry, it is ready to take. > > 6: For those who want to recover all the alkaloids, so they > can take a complete total alkaloid extract (or Purified > Total Active Alkaloid extract, aka PTAA) of high purity, > they should take the acetone that they salted/precipitated > out the ibogaine HCl, and evaporate it in front of a fan > with warm air current. > > The resulting leftover alkaloids will be an unstable oil. > > 7: Dissolve this oil in distilled water. > > 8: Add ammonia to this water with the oil dissolved into > it. > > You will again see the freebase residual alkaloids > precipitate out of the water/ammonia solution. > > 9: Filter out the freebase alkaloids, and rinse again > thoroughly with distilled water. > > 10: Let the freebase residual alkaloids dry completely. > > You can then add your freebase residual alkaloids to your > ibogaine HCl, and capsulize it. Freebases will be converted > to the HCl salts in your stomach, so turning them into the > HCl salt before ingesting is probably unnecessary. > > This Purified Total Alkaloid extract, or PTA, should be > considered very pure, and a 15-20 mg/kg dose of this (mainly > for addiction treatment at this level) is just as powerful, > if not more so, as the pure ibogaine HCl, so estimate your > dosage with this extract accordingly. This is powerful > medicine and going higher than 25 mg/kg could cause > complications, so don't be a hero. This also lasts in the > system for months, so it's recommended not to take another > flood dose within 60-90 days minimum, to be safe. > > This is optional and has not been tried by myself, so if > Chris or anyone out there thinks there are any updates, more > details, or improvements, please feel free to add them, as > the final purification to pure ibogaine HCl, was not my > goal, just a much more pure TA. > > Further purification notes, for those wanting pure ibogaine > HCl, without the added alkaloids, from here: http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/032899.html > > Purification of ibogaine from the total alkaloids. > > The total alkaloids from the extraction step is dissolved > in ethyl acetate > (minimum) and treated with norite (measurements anyone?), > filtered and evaporated to dryness. The residue is dissolved > in hot ethanol. After chilling for two or three days, the > crude ibogaine is filtered and the filtrate is evaporated to > half volume, chilled for one day and a second crop of > ibogaine is collected. > > The crude ibogaine is recrystallized from ethanol. This > product is dissolved in toluene and filtered through three > times its weight of neutral alumina(activity 1), and the > column washed with toluene. Evaporation of the solvent > crystallization of the residue from ethanol yields a pure > sample of ibogaine. > > Ibogaine hydrochloride > > To a stirred solution of ibogaine in minimum acetone is > added aqueous HCl > (1:1) dropwise (excess). The crystalline ibogaine > hydrochloride separates > immediately. The product is filtered and washed with > acetone. It is > recrystallized from ethanol yielding a white salt. > > Extra tips: > > Norite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norite > > Ethyl Acetate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate > > Also, this further purification requires a chromatography > column, neutral alumina to pack the column, and toluene, so > it may be a bit more difficult for the kitchen chemist > without the proper tools.. It also lacks measurements, and > details, so I'd need to play around to find them myself. > > Honestly, the added purification is not really needed, > especially if one only wants a Purified TA or PTAA. It is > only necessary if 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl is desired. > > Hope this has everything anyone needs, but I can help out > if anyone has any questions, up to the further purification, > as I don't have a chromatography column, and didn't have > enough bark to waste any of the extra alkaloids from the > root bark. > > I haven't tried to make pure ibogaine HCl since the > PTA/PTAA that comes out, looks plenty clean, removes all the > plant material, makes the dosage easy to calculate, and may > be easier on sensitive stomachs, although nausea is still > common with even the pure alkaloids. > > I have read that the pure ibogaine HCl is even more gentle > on the stomach, but haven't had the experience myself, so I > can't give a personal account. > > If any experts out there have any critiques for the updated > tek, please feel free to add whatever you can. Big thanks to > Chris Jenks!! Also, thanks to panoramix over at the > DMT-Nexus.com for helping add some measurements for the > purification. > > I've tried to make this as clear and detailed as possible, > and watching Chris' presentation from the ibogaine > conference can help with pictures, for those who are visual > learners.. > > http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4730969? (This one > has the extraction by Chris Jenks, with pictures and his > description. He starts 1:00:00 in, but plenty of good info > before hand.) > > Best of luck to everyone, and please use this with utmost > respect and responsibility, as we don't need to lose ANYONE > (else) with this medicine! > > HH > > PS.? Sorry if this already came through in my other > reply, but my computer was acting funny, and it hasn't shown > up in my email box yet, so I figure sending it again > couldn't hurt.. > > > ? ? ? > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 06:45:27 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:45:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Another ibogaine death - at San Miguel Allende In-Reply-To: <4261EA3A-1F7A-4FCD-81E1-FD8FB5758252@gmail.com> Message-ID: <908849.89429.qm@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Not sure, if or why she contacted you personally Jeremy, but if she got your email, it's because anyone who signs up for the list can get anyone's email address, that posts to the list. Shows right up in the header. >From what she asked on the list, she sounds like she was involved with someone planning to open the clinic, and someone has apparently passed away there. Maybe she is just curious to know any details, if anyone does on the list? Heck, after I was made aware of it, I even searched the internet to see what I could to find out about it. I think anyone involved with ibogaine would like to know the details of someone's death, so it could possibly be prevented, or maybe some new protocol, that should/could be put into use, that would incorporate a way to avoid the same thing happening again. All I ever found was an older email on the list from her, apparently, while she was thinking of treatment, then the notice of her passing, with something about messages to her friends, from her daughter, on facebook, or something to that effect. I don't have a facebook account, or know who she is, and don't know anything about it, but I think the clinic is operating in a legal area, and as you said, deaths happen all the time, especially in any medical treatment. >From the link to the center that it happened at, the site says they have a full medical staff there the whole time of the treatment. So, I don't know what she might have said to you off-list, but I too am interested in why any person may have died from using ibogaine. BTW, I am wondering why she would pick you at random, Jeremy, especially if she has asked a bunch of personal questions to just random members that she doesn't know, and if that is the case, that does sound strange, but I would also like to know why someone died from ibogaine, and if the exact cause was determined. BTW, hope you feel a little better soon, J. :) Peace! HH --- On Sun, 2/28/10, Jeremy Spence wrote: > From: Jeremy Spence > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Another ibogaine death - at San Miguel Allende > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 9:46 PM > Woman, ibogaine is "not" > risk free!!! > I doubt anybody here knows how or why she > died.... > Its is always a sad thing when somebody dies, > but going around "blaming" people for it, its not > the answer... > I don't not even know her.... I never did... > 'I have not been out of my home town because > a illness that's lasted for 13 > years...?I doubt you find anybody on here > that will be able to tell you what cause her to > died... > Dying is a RISK!! OF > TREATMENT!!?STAYING ON MEDS FOR LIFE IS A > RISK TOO! > I just saying.. bothering people on this list > for info nobody knows on here, is most likely not going to > help you find out "why"Its not common, > but it does happen... > It can happen with a simple surgery also!!! with > MD's right there!!?And many times, no > body knows "why" > I got IC at 21, and everybody want to know what > causes IC, lady, NOBODY FREAKEN KNOWS!! > You are barking up the wrong tree here on the > list...?no body here is going to be able to > tell you the "why" to that... > She might have die, doing it the old fashion way > that all these doctors here in the USA think "nothing > of" when they "send you out of their > office"(like a pile of shit, to suffer your ass off!!!) > in withdraw.. and then you go home to shit all over your > self!! and swim in your own feces and vomit..... and rock > back and forth in the bed, paying for death!!! > So you know, I really doubt your going to get > anybody here to be able to tell you "how" or > "why" "or what > happened"?I sure nobody even knows > "why" > Why is the sky > blue????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????I > mean, there just no way anybody going to be able to tell you > the how of that...I don't even know why she > was, I am just speaking because you sound like the > "police" or something..? > Most everybody knows here there is some risk > getting treated...... but for the most part most people > don't die.... its not highly common, but it can happen, > the same in surgery, or anything that Doctors do or give you > here in the states, yet people think nothing of it and it > goes on everyday... > US approved meds are not risk free. Getting > treated by a MD is not risk free... > I am so sick of people pointing fingers, and > blaming others, or a person "own" > "choices"And it always seems to be the > highly religious people also... they have a highly common > tread to them.. and the small minded ways they > "think" and it pisses me the fuck > off!! > Lady, I really hope to god you didn't come > here to start trouble..... > Patrick, this lady contacted me and acted like I > knew, a bunch of bs... like i know any of these people who > treat with ibogaine.... Right, I have not been out of > Indiana in years over a crazy bladder disease I've been > fighting for the past 13 years..Please lady, do > not come here to bother people about which nome of know > anything about... > I doubt anybody knows "why" she > died..... ?I happens, and it should be taken in > account, and tried to be provented if at all possible.. But > at the end of the day staying addicted(out of control use) > or dependent(controlled use, which nobody gets the > difference, and YES LADY, THERE IS A FUCKEN DIFFERENCE AND I > AM SOOOO SICK OF IDIOTS, AND RELIGIOUS CRAZIES NOT FUCKING > KNOW THE FREAKEN DIFFERENCE!!! IT PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF!!!) > has its risk to it...And sadly, ibogaine has its > risk too it also... > Again, i did not know that person who died, I am > truly sorry any died that seeks treatment... Ibogaine is > still not completely tested yet, and the Why have not be > found out completely when people die... > I blame the USA DEA, they won't allow the > tested to happen, they stand in the way of research that > could be of a lot of value, but NO, OUR IDIOTIC COUNTRY FULL > OF BULL SHIT!! AND NA AND AA CRAP, AND DON'T JUST SAY > NO, AND ALL THIS OTHER SHIT THAT EVERY BODY, EVEN JUDGES > KNOW, "DOES NOT FUCKEN WORK"?BUT > NO, WE STAY ON THE SAME OLD FUCKING PATH!!! > I BLAME THE USA AND THE DEA ON HER DYING!! IF WE > HAD MORE STUDIES ON IBOGAINE AND ITS EFFECTS, IT MIGHT MAKE > IT SAFER!! BUT NO!! WE GOT THIS O TOLERANCE, OVERLY > RELIGIOUS!! IDOTIC, THIS SUB, BAD, THIS SUBS IS GOOD, THIS > IS WHAT THE FUCK EVER!1I AM ABOUT AT MY FUCKING > END WITH THIS BS TRAIN OF THOUGHT!! > GOOD LUCK LADY!!!PATRICK, THIS LADY > HAS BOTHERED ME!!AND I DON'T "NOT" > KNOW WHERE THIS WOMEN HAS CAME FROM... SHE NEARLY SOUNDS > LIKE "A COP"IT MAY BE WISE TO BLOCK > THIS WOMEN.... > I KNOW LIKING THE BS THAT'S COMING COME THIS > LADY...ITS SOUNDS POLICE'Y > I don't know how she got my email... and i > really don't like it when people think things of me, > when they don't have a fucking clue who I am, or > anything about me in general.. > I am going to say it watch your self around this > lady.. I don't like the polcey nature of her post, and > email me out of no where, when i don't have a clue who > this women is, or even knew anything about the women who > sadly died, RIP > J > > > On Feb 16, 2010, at 12:55 AM, Becky > wrote: > > > Would please tell me more > about the death Kristina Pollock.? > I was Pierre > Lepoureau's wife during the planning stages of the > clinic. I?am sick about this. > ? Becky > Gili? > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: ?[%][) > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 07:07:04 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 04:07:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] test (missing emails?)disregard.. In-Reply-To: <621345.57560.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <237979.61255.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This email I sent a couple days ago when my messages weren't coming through, sorry for the clutter! HH --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > From: Helpful Hopeful > Subject: [Ibogaine] test (missing emails?) > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 4:51 PM > I sent the full updated extraction to > the list probably 3 times, and it hasn't shown up in my > inbox yet.? Just wondering if my mails are making it to > the list or what.? Seems strange my other emails made > it, but the one with the full load of details, links, and > updates just won't make it through.? Maybe it's the > length?? So this is a test to see if it comes > through...? I may have to post a link to another site > with the extraction..? We'll see.. > > > ? ? ? > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From xxmikkixx at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 09:11:47 2010 From: xxmikkixx at gmail.com (Mikki Lynne) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:11:47 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <670873.72802.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <670873.72802.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434702AF-A9FB-4BE6-95E5-47D604B81EEE@gmail.com> Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who it might end up helping out. Thank you! I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that point where it's just prolonging the misery. Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and dreary... Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in > the day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, > I think). Then the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep > in as late as possible, then wake up and take maybe a third of the > dose. That should kick in the ibo and ease a good bit of the > withdrawal, and when she gets home at around 3, I will take the > flood dose. > > This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the > whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. I > think by then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours > til she gets home.. > > I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood > providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. Worse comes to worse > I could prep an enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract > will hit me a lot faster and harder than that crappy vinegar extract > stuff I had last time.. > > I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline > acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their > stomachs. I also know that anything I have ever tried to take that > was made acidic with vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before > it kicked in. Years ago I tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's > what led me to learning how to extract various plants. The vinegar > was the worst, and other times, I couldn't get enough down for long > enough to get strong enough effects. > > So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it > does sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, > without purging, unless I dose well over a gram, at least. And even > if I do throw up, it's usually pretty well absorbed by then.. > > The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the > way down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy > daily. I flew over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been > about the time I would have been taking my dose, when I arrived. I > was starting to feel the withdrawal coming on, and she took me to > her home, and gave me a little chunk of the ibo TA. Not sure > exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, maybe a little bigger? > > Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to > ride down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some > things from the store that I'd need, etc. We went back, and then > that evening I ate my flood dose. > > I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next > thing you know it was hitting me strong. I started having full on > waking dreams, and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. That is when > I was trying to hide in my covers from some of the scary visions, > and I don't believe it was too long after that, when I started > throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for me). > > Then I threw up a lot. I would stop for a little while, then throw > up again. Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember > everything. I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little > bit. I ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many > hours. Probably just had to get all that toxic crap out of my > body. I didn't get any diarrhea, or anything, but I sure did puke > enough. > > Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's > getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard > drugs. I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get > a sweet tooth (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using > opiates again. I did pick up smoking again when I moved back around > a bunch of smokers and drinkers and drank a bit here and there. I > didn't ever develop a habit (except for the cigarettes), and anytime > I did any type of drugs I could tell when it was time to stop. > > I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would > do was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. I could watch people do > heroin, helped a real sick buddy find a vein even. Could turn down > coke, pills, anything, and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed > as I once had. After 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer > felt I really needed anything but my family and friends to be happy. > > I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I > would never get addicted to anything again. I did opiates a few > times, didn't really care for em anymore. I always hated everything > about coke but the rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, > cause I hate the coke and speed high (I like to eat and sleep, > LOL). Alcohol was only nice when I drank it regularly, and then I > didn't like the side effects, so I'd just stop and be done with it. > For years I didn't have a drink. > > I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but > I didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. Then, > one night after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly > having a few drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a > half of mescaline HCl. Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for > free even! > > Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I > saw a guy on a skateboard. I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted > to give a kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands > of times. I got on and tried, and didn't land on the board the > first time. So I tried again, and I landed it, but then I was off > balance and it shot out right from under me and I fell flat on my > back/shoulder. > > I could feel my collarbone snap. I knew it was broke, cause it > ain't the first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other > collarbone in HS. I had broken other bones, been given vicodins > before (after the iboga), or even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. > Previously, for broken bones I'd take the vicodin for a few days for > the major pain, and the bone was set and I'd just give the rest away. > > Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all > the way through, not just a hairline fracture. I went to the > hospital, and they x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave > me some ibuprofen. The ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and > doing nothing for my pain, so I went back. > > They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to > come back in week. I went back in a week, and they checked it and > basically told me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it > got too bad, they'd have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, > or whatever, so they gave me another script of vicodin and told me I > could keep coming back. > > Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and > money. And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty > acute pain. So I said screw this, they make all these synthetics > from the poppy plant, which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't > require a doctor visit, and costs around a buck a pod. For 6 > dollars a day I was pain free all day with a single dose. No eating > tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 hours. So I > used the pods until the pain started lessening. I was still having > aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, > but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had > been using them for a few months. > > I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without > seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of > pod powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every > 3-5 days, down another pod, down to a pod a day. I started weighing > them accurately, and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a > day. But I would feel sick every morning. > > Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a > little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod > powder a day. I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, > but again I reduced down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a > day, probably even less than those few grams of pods, especially > when you consider the mix of other alkaloids in em. > > So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with > goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick > yet. I usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then > chew up another pill. I never get much motivation at all, but I > ain't getting chills, goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or > anything after an hour, so I try to get all the stuff I can to try > and take care of my family. > > Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either > trying to help other people from various internet places I visit, or > talking over my problems, but it's been taking away from other > things I need to get done. Even when I get away from the computer I > can barely muster the energy to go get dressed and walk to the > store, or to do more than the bare minimum of work I can to scrape > by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much harder these > last couple years. > > I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a > change. I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last > night, and I am gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe > some light cardio to see if that will start to boost my energy. I > really have to push myself to do it, but I want to make the change. > > I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but > isn't gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. So I am > trying to get started on them now. I do think after the iboga it'll > help me see the light at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me > stop feeling like crap every single morning as soon as my eyes open, > which is a big enough relief in itself to get me to go take a nice > hot bath or shower, and fix me some decent, healthier food. > > So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit > more each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as > soon as I figure out which day my sitter is going to have off. I > don't know why I rambled on so long, but I guess since I ain't > sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I just got carried away. > > If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, > but I thank you all for listening. I know many of you out there are > caring souls, always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part > of this list. Other than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's > many of my internet friends that help keep me going every day. > > I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my > areas of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). I am > very proud to be a be a part of this list and a couple internet > places, where it seems I find more friends than I can in the daily > rat race that consumes the world around me. Much love, friends. > > Many Blessings To All!! > > HH > > > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S wrote: > >> From: Matt S >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy >> To: "The Ibogaine List" >> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 >> hours after a >> heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. >> After having done a >> few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and >> methadone, my >> experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate >> dose seems to >> have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed >> opiate free >> afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you >> are full on sick >> in order to be safe. I am not recommending anyone try >> what I did, it >> probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger >> or the dose >> larger. My treatment for methadone was probably close >> to 36 hours >> after my last methadone dose and that was so successful >> that it was the >> final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago >> now. >> >> >> >> My feeling is that you should continue to take your >> morphine as you >> have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the >> extract that >> morning as soon as you wake up. Don't give >> yourself a bunch of time to >> think about it or talk yourself out of it. Schedule >> it in advance and >> then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. >> Let your sitter >> know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take >> enough time >> to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the >> lights and >> bedding situated and then go for it. You won't >> have time to dwell on >> being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a >> better idea than >> ibogaine. I don't think you need a test dose >> either. My understanding >> of the test dose is that it is intended to test for >> allergic reaction >> but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an >> allergic >> reaction. Since you have done treatments before I >> would say skip it. >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Helpful Hopeful wrote: >> >> Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low >> point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant >> withdrawal. I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours >> before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. >> >> I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked >> in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get >> higher. I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. >> 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much >> discomfort. But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by >> now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me >> discomfort and more depression. >> >> I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for >> it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at >> about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. I have some >> things I really need to get done that I have been putting >> off due to depression. I went ahead and took my dose of MS, >> at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the >> 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. >> >> After remembering how it went last time, with mild >> withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped >> contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open >> in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first >> dose. I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling >> the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, >> rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. >> >> Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up >> the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka >> morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is >> probably not playing much of a role. In the prescribing >> info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or >> grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the >> opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could >> cause overdose. >> >> It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the >> internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I >> am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to >> take a small test dose. This should quell my withdrawal and >> then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go >> ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start >> feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. >> >> Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free >> day. I don't want to be under the full influence of the >> iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, >> I'll be able to manage. I am planning on trying again >> real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all >> this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I >> don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. >> >> I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about >> to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and >> advice. I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and >> unmotivated. The longer I sit like this, the longer >> it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to >> go ahead and do it. >> >> NO FEAR!! :) >> >> HH >> >> >> n Sat, 2/27/10, sv >> wrote: >> >> >> >> From: sv >> Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy >> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi HH- i would suggest >> that the depression you are >> experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are >> taking. What is your >> plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness before >> taking the TA? In my >> experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband >> had tapered to 400mg >> of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was >> successful. He did experience >> PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS >> free! >> i don't think it would >> work to divide your dose >> into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be >> that 15mg of morphine >> would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal >> starting or at the very >> least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks >> for the updated >> tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a >> desire to venture into >> chemistry. >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >> ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >> :: >> [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >> :::: (]=- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: >> (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >> :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: >> (]=- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >> ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: >> [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >> :::: (]=- >> > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 09:18:40 2010 From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 06:18:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a1002280914i5f2db259w4351738ee1a0bced@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <610851.81978.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Bev, I think the cheapest way would be to get another phone with unlimited long distance and call forwarding.? You could work a shift 3 -11, 11-7, 7 - 3, etc.? You could call the person who is suppose to be on duty and tell them your putting the phone on forward.? The next day the person calls you on your regular phone and you call the next person to double check to see if they are home and ready and if so set the call forwarding for that person.? This would run maybe $25 to $35 a month.? Now, if your on the road you can also make you calls to be sure the person know it it their shift to work and you can call and set it remotely. Or you can have the phone leave a recording of the person to call by using an answering machine. Keep it simple and low cost. Also, a web site listing the number may be a good idea but it is exposing yourself somewhat.? So far no one has made a big deal out of detoxing people but if you put it on a net for that purpose it could well attract unwanted attention.? It may be a good idea to have two phone numbers for sooner or later someone is going to forget to forward the number or that they are on duty. --- On Sun, 2/28/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: From: Beverly Jackson Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 12:14 PM randy, i've heard the hotline idea, I think it's excellent. where should it be promoted? should it be a toll free number? a dedicated line? who will research costs? who will fund it? who can call? just thinking out loud. shakin' the tree, beverly anne jackson sr. On 2/27/10, michael langshaw wrote: > Sounds good. Great food for thought! How you doing Bro?!?!? > Mike > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Randy Faulconer wrote: > > > From: Randy Faulconer > Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 4:00 AM > > > > ???????????? Hey yalls, I have a few idea's about this. A lot of the > training can be done by simply reading everything you get on the subject and > then answering my questions. Just kidding not just mine I was hoping yall > would help to put together a list of questions for future providers. It aint > no joke you may get away with one or two but sooner or later you're going to > need the experience of others. It?happened to me a couple of times and I've > only done 30 or so. Course I have some very smart people I can talk to and > do. > > ???????? There are other things too. I'd like to start a hot line for advice > during a treatment. I'd just give out my number but I'm hoping I can get > some people that know more then I do, and we all take turns. Maybe something > live on the net?? We'll see. I guess we could do it just when a treatment is > occurring for now. Hopefully one day it will be going on 24/7 and we will > need somebody all of the time. I really believe that Ibo treatments are > going to explode soon. I've heard that before but. > > > ??????????????????????????????? Peace Love and Solidarity > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? Randy > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????? BiscuitBoy Blues > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > -- "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."? ???George Orwell ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From digitalcomponents at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 09:25:21 2010 From: digitalcomponents at gmail.com (Nyc Labrets) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:25:21 +0100 Subject: [Ibogaine] Conference? In-Reply-To: References: <453906.81250.qm@web44909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <46F60AD4-2605-4278-A8B5-72F0A86CF616@phantom.com> <8999cc761002261145g49f9c7exddc22d3cd88ddf4d@mail.gmail.com> <8999cc761002271603m30725508tc4fd1f1bfc34210f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7237bf9f1003010625o2b6fad11r4a6bf433f6ae362e@mail.gmail.com> Webb's good people. I had this pic http://tinyurl.com/yejdo6x of him holding up his Marine son's combat boots when he won his Senate seat hanging on my wall for quite a while. Some of the better Dems are the ones that came over from the Repukes it seems. Webb's a smart man, no doubt he'll be able to connect the dots with Ibogaine and what he's trying to get done with prison reform. Hell, a light may go off in his head and he'll see it as a central part of his plan. Sorry you're going through all this insane stress right now, am keeping fingers crossed for a good outcome for you. I've written from jail, and while it can be done it really sucks. There's a lot to be said for having distractions too. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Dana Beal wrote: > Willingered? That's it! > > Alice and Carlotta loved the picture. > > The one person from Nebraska I've gotten treated so far for crystal meth > was at the conference. She appears with Matt Fogg, the former federal > marshall who was threatening to leave unless I moved the agenda. He ended up > staying an additional day, even though we delayed his Valentine's day date. > Now he's willing to take ibogaine to Jim Webb. > > Dana/cnw > > On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:03 PM, fallen eden wrote: > > Uh oh, he was Willingered? Ah, I didn't know about that one. Beware > willinger time! > > But the kitten still says hello! I sent you a picture of him sleeping with > my other cat. > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Dana Beal wrote: > >> It was do the conference on the fly, or not do it. Remember, I got caught >> in snow and didn't get back from Court until 1 am Thursday instead of noon >> Tuesday. And because Doug Willinger skyjacked Jay Statzer from that party >> and didn't return him from Westchester for two days, a cascade of events was >> initiated which led to one of my co-defendants pleading guilty on Monday >> instead of waiting for the suppression hearing, which is very bad for my >> case in Nebraska. >> >> Sometimes yr just not paying attention to what's really important. >> >> On the other hand, the only place I can complete my next book is in jail. >> Gotta get the interviews done first, though. >> >> Dana/cnw >> >> -- "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes." PirateBay FTW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From izmudd at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 12:32:31 2010 From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:32:31 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training In-Reply-To: <610851.81978.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <68a68f8a1002280914i5f2db259w4351738ee1a0bced@mail.gmail.com> <610851.81978.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68a68f8a1003010932i571254b5kcf3fed9b1e0b3bf3@mail.gmail.com> That's what I was thinking, Jim. Bovenga, ideas? On 3/1/10, Jim Hadey wrote: > > > Hi Bev, > > I think the cheapest way would be to get another phone > with unlimited long distance and call forwarding. You > could work a shift 3 -11, 11-7, 7 - 3, etc. You could > call the person who is suppose to be on duty and tell > them your putting the phone on forward. The next > day the person calls you on your regular phone and > you call the next person to double check to see if > they are home and ready and if so set the call > forwarding for that person. This would run maybe $25 > to $35 a month. Now, if your on the road you can also > make you calls to be sure the person know it it their > shift to work and you can call and set it remotely. > Or you can have the phone leave a recording of > the person to call by using an answering machine. > Keep it simple and low cost. > > Also, a web site listing the number may be a good idea > but it is exposing yourself somewhat. So far no one has > made a big deal out of detoxing people but if you put it > on a net for that purpose it could well attract unwanted > attention. It may be a good idea to have two phone > numbers for sooner or later someone is going to forget > to forward the number or that they are on duty. From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 12:48:11 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:48:11 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <434702AF-A9FB-4BE6-95E5-47D604B81EEE@gmail.com> References: <670873.72802.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <434702AF-A9FB-4BE6-95E5-47D604B81EEE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003010948p1eef0b83y9dfdc0cd26fd027d@mail.gmail.com> thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless and it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am not alone, that there are others out there with the same struggles and neuroses that I have. Not calling you neurotic lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It means you're smart enough to be crazy ;) I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer for me. SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all throughout my younger days...most of it unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give yourself too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and say, "this is when" and begin your session as planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the good news is you've done this before, and with a real bastard of a drug too. I can't imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all in a few days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I never want to repeat. Ever... It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad you are here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne wrote: > Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us > all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who > it might end up helping out. Thank you! > > I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, > waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone > dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that > point where it's just prolonging the misery. > > Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, as > I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and > take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning > bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to > work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and > dreary... > > Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! > > > On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful > wrote: > > I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the day >> as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). Then >> the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, >> then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. That should kick in the >> ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at around >> 3, I will take the flood dose. >> >> This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the whole >> next day, until the following morning to watch after me. I think by then >> I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. >> >> I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood providing >> I don't throw up too much, too fast. Worse comes to worse I could prep an >> enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster >> and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last time.. >> >> I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline >> acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. I >> also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with >> vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. Years ago I >> tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to >> extract various plants. The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I >> couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. >> >> So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does >> sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, >> unless I dose well over a gram, at least. And even if I do throw up, it's >> usually pretty well absorbed by then.. >> >> The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way >> down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. I flew >> over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would >> have been taking my dose, when I arrived. I was starting to feel the >> withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little >> chunk of the ibo TA. Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, >> maybe a little bigger? >> >> Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride down >> to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the store >> that I'd need, etc. We went back, and then that evening I ate my flood >> dose. >> >> I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing you >> know it was hitting me strong. I started having full on waking dreams, and >> seeing all kinds of crazy visions. That is when I was trying to hide in my >> covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too long >> after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for me). >> >> Then I threw up a lot. I would stop for a little while, then throw up >> again. Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember >> everything. I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. I >> ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. Probably just >> had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. I didn't get any diarrhea, >> or anything, but I sure did puke enough. >> >> Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's getting >> late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. I >> stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth (no >> sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. I did pick up >> smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers and >> drank a bit here and there. I didn't ever develop a habit (except for the >> cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it was >> time to stop. >> >> I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do was >> smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. I could watch people do heroin, helped >> a real sick buddy find a vein even. Could turn down coke, pills, anything, >> and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. After 3-4 years >> I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything but my >> family and friends to be happy. >> >> I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I would >> never get addicted to anything again. I did opiates a few times, didn't >> really care for em anymore. I always hated everything about coke but the >> rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and >> speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). Alcohol was only nice when I >> drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just >> stop and be done with it. For years I didn't have a drink. >> >> I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I >> didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. Then, one night >> after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few >> drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. >> Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! >> >> Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a >> guy on a skateboard. I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a >> kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. I got >> on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. So I tried >> again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right >> from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. >> >> I could feel my collarbone snap. I knew it was broke, cause it ain't the >> first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. I >> had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or >> even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. Previously, for broken bones I'd >> take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and >> I'd just give the rest away. >> >> Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the >> way through, not just a hairline fracture. I went to the hospital, and they >> x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. The >> ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I >> went back. >> >> They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come >> back in week. I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told >> me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd >> have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me >> another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. >> >> Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. >> And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. So >> I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, >> which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs >> around a buck a pod. For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a >> single dose. No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 >> hours. So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. I was still >> having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, >> but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using >> them for a few months. >> >> I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without seeds >> weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod powder a >> day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, down >> another pod, down to a pod a day. I started weighing them accurately, and >> got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. But I would feel sick >> every morning. >> >> Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a little >> bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a day. I >> feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced down to >> just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than those >> few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other alkaloids >> in em. >> >> So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with >> goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. I >> usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another >> pill. I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, >> goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to >> get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. >> >> Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either trying >> to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking over >> my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get done. >> Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy to go >> get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum of >> work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much >> harder these last couple years. >> >> I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. >> I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am >> gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see >> if that will start to boost my energy. I really have to push myself to do >> it, but I want to make the change. >> >> I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't >> gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. So I am trying to get >> started on them now. I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light >> at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every >> single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in >> itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some >> decent, healthier food. >> >> So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more each >> day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure out >> which day my sitter is going to have off. I don't know why I rambled on so >> long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I just >> got carried away. >> >> If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I >> thank you all for listening. I know many of you out there are caring souls, >> always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. Other >> than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends >> that help keep me going every day. >> >> I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas of >> expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). I am very proud to be a >> be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find >> more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around >> me. Much love, friends. >> >> Many Blessings To All!! >> >> HH >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S wrote: >> >> From: Matt S >>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>> To: "The Ibogaine List" >>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 >>> hours after a >>> heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. >>> After having done a >>> few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and >>> methadone, my >>> experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate >>> dose seems to >>> have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed >>> opiate free >>> afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you >>> are full on sick >>> in order to be safe. I am not recommending anyone try >>> what I did, it >>> probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger >>> or the dose >>> larger. My treatment for methadone was probably close >>> to 36 hours >>> after my last methadone dose and that was so successful >>> that it was the >>> final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago >>> now. >>> >>> >>> >>> My feeling is that you should continue to take your >>> morphine as you >>> have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the >>> extract that >>> morning as soon as you wake up. Don't give >>> yourself a bunch of time to >>> think about it or talk yourself out of it. Schedule >>> it in advance and >>> then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. >>> Let your sitter >>> know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take >>> enough time >>> to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the >>> lights and >>> bedding situated and then go for it. You won't >>> have time to dwell on >>> being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a >>> better idea than >>> ibogaine. I don't think you need a test dose >>> either. My understanding >>> of the test dose is that it is intended to test for >>> allergic reaction >>> but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an >>> allergic >>> reaction. Since you have done treatments before I >>> would say skip it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Helpful Hopeful wrote: >>> >>> Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low >>> point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant >>> withdrawal. I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours >>> before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. >>> >>> I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked >>> in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get >>> higher. I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. >>> 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much >>> discomfort. But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by >>> now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me >>> discomfort and more depression. >>> >>> I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for >>> it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at >>> about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. I have some >>> things I really need to get done that I have been putting >>> off due to depression. I went ahead and took my dose of MS, >>> at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the >>> 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. >>> >>> After remembering how it went last time, with mild >>> withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped >>> contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open >>> in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first >>> dose. I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling >>> the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, >>> rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. >>> >>> Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up >>> the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka >>> morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is >>> probably not playing much of a role. In the prescribing >>> info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or >>> grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the >>> opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could >>> cause overdose. >>> >>> It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the >>> internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I >>> am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to >>> take a small test dose. This should quell my withdrawal and >>> then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go >>> ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start >>> feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. >>> >>> Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free >>> day. I don't want to be under the full influence of the >>> iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, >>> I'll be able to manage. I am planning on trying again >>> real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all >>> this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I >>> don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. >>> >>> I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about >>> to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and >>> advice. I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and >>> unmotivated. The longer I sit like this, the longer >>> it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to >>> go ahead and do it. >>> >>> NO FEAR!! :) >>> >>> HH >>> >>> >>> n Sat, 2/27/10, sv >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> From: sv >>> Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi HH- i would suggest >>> that the depression you are >>> experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are >>> taking. What is your >>> plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness before >>> taking the TA? In my >>> experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband >>> had tapered to 400mg >>> of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was >>> successful. He did experience >>> PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS >>> free! >>> i don't think it would >>> work to divide your dose >>> into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be >>> that 15mg of morphine >>> would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal >>> starting or at the very >>> least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks >>> for the updated >>> tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a >>> desire to venture into >>> chemistry. >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>> ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>> :: >>> [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>> :::: (]=- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: >>> (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>> :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: >>> (]=- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>> ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: >>> [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>> :::: (]=- >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 13:20:07 2010 From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 10:20:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <725c35de1003010948p1eef0b83y9dfdc0cd26fd027d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <956778.11317.qm@web51308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Mikki, A FOF went to the dr complaining of depression and the dr checked her Vitamin D and she was at 13% of what was normal.? The dr gave her some Vit D pills and Zoloft.? If the Vitamin D was that low I would say try the Vitamin D and if that does not help try Zoloft - but what do I know.? Just saying try Vitamin D and see if that helps - it is common to run low during the winter and it can cause SAD - season something depression. It helps to take a Vitamin D with Calcium.? Hope that helps. Best to ya, ? - JIM --- On Mon, 3/1/10, cal que wrote: From: cal que Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:48 PM thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless and it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am not alone, that there are others out there with the same struggles and neuroses that I have. Not calling you neurotic lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It means you're smart enough to be crazy ;) I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer for me. SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all throughout my younger days...most of it unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give yourself too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and say, "this is when" and begin your session as planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the good news is you've done this before, and with a real bastard of a drug too. I can't imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all in a few days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I never want to repeat. Ever... It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad you are here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne wrote: Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who it might end up helping out. Thank you! I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that point where it's just prolonging the misery. Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and dreary... Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). ?Then the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. ?That should kick in the ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at around 3, I will take the flood dose. This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. ?I think by then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. ?Worse comes to worse I could prep an enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last time.. I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. ?I also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. ?Years ago I tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to extract various plants. ?The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, unless I dose well over a gram, at least. ?And even if I do throw up, it's usually pretty well absorbed by then.. The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. ?I flew over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would have been taking my dose, when I arrived. ?I was starting to feel the withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little chunk of the ibo TA. ?Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, maybe a little bigger? Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the store that I'd need, etc. ?We went back, and then that evening I ate my flood dose. I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing you know it was hitting me strong. ?I started having full on waking dreams, and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. ?That is when I was trying to hide in my covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for me). Then I threw up a lot. ?I would stop for a little while, then throw up again. ?Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember everything. ?I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. ?I ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. ?Probably just had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. ?I didn't get any diarrhea, or anything, but I sure did puke enough. Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. ?I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. ?I did pick up smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers and drank a bit here and there. ?I didn't ever develop a habit (except for the cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it was time to stop. I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. ?I could watch people do heroin, helped a real sick buddy find a vein even. ?Could turn down coke, pills, anything, and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. ?After 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything but my family and friends to be happy. I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I would never get addicted to anything again. ?I did opiates a few times, didn't really care for em anymore. ?I always hated everything about coke but the rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). ?Alcohol was only nice when I drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just stop and be done with it. ?For years I didn't have a drink. I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. ?Then, one night after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. ?Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a guy on a skateboard. ?I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. ?I got on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. ?So I tried again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. I could feel my collarbone snap. ?I knew it was broke, cause it ain't the first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. ?I had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. ?Previously, for broken bones I'd take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and I'd just give the rest away. Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the way through, not just a hairline fracture. ?I went to the hospital, and they x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. ?The ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I went back. They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come back in week. ?I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. ?And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. ?So I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs around a buck a pod. ?For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a single dose. ?No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 hours. ?So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. ?I was still having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using them for a few months. I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, down another pod, down to a pod a day. ?I started weighing them accurately, and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. ?But I would feel sick every morning. Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a day. ?I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than those few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other alkaloids in em. So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. ?I usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another pill. ?I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either trying to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking over my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get done. ?Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy to go get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum of work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much harder these last couple years. I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. ?I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see if that will start to boost my energy. ?I really have to push myself to do it, but I want to make the change. I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. ?So I am trying to get started on them now. ?I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some decent, healthier food. So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure out which day my sitter is going to have off. ?I don't know why I rambled on so long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I just got carried away. If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I thank you all for listening. ?I know many of you out there are caring souls, always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. ?Other than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends that help keep me going every day. I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). ?I am very proud to be a be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around me. ?Much love, friends. Many Blessings To All!! HH --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S wrote: From: Matt S Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 hours after a heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. After having done a few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and methadone, my experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate dose seems to have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed opiate free afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you are full on sick in order to be safe. ?I am not recommending anyone try what I did, it probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger or the dose larger. ?My treatment for methadone was probably close to 36 hours after my last methadone dose and that was so successful that it was the final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago now. My feeling is that you should continue to take your morphine as you have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the extract that morning as soon as you wake up. ?Don't give yourself a bunch of time to think about it or talk yourself out of it. ?Schedule it in advance and then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. Let your sitter know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take enough time to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the lights and bedding situated and then go for it. ?You won't have time to dwell on being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a better idea than ibogaine. ?I don't think you need a test dose either. ?My understanding of the test dose is that it is intended to test for allergic reaction but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an allergic reaction. ?Since you have done treatments before I would say skip it. Matt Helpful Hopeful wrote: ?Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant withdrawal. ?I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get higher. ?I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much discomfort. ?But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me discomfort and more depression. I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. ?I have some things I really need to get done that I have been putting off due to depression. ?I went ahead and took my dose of MS, at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. After remembering how it went last time, with mild withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first dose. ?I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is probably not playing much of a role. ?In the prescribing info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could cause overdose. It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to take a small test dose. ?This should quell my withdrawal and then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free day. ?I don't want to be under the full influence of the iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, I'll be able to manage. ?I am planning on trying again real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and advice. ?I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and unmotivated. ?The longer I sit like this, the longer it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to go ahead and do it. NO FEAR!! ?:) HH n Sat, 2/27/10, sv wrote: ? From: sv Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM Hi HH- i would suggest that the depression you are experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are taking. What is your plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness ?before taking the TA? In my experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband had tapered to 400mg of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was successful. He did experience PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS free! i don't think it would work to divide your dose into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be that 15mg of morphine would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal starting or at the very least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks for the updated tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a desire to venture into chemistry. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junkboy64 at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 13:53:12 2010 From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:53:12 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <956778.11317.qm@web51308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <725c35de1003010948p1eef0b83y9dfdc0cd26fd027d@mail.gmail.com> <956778.11317.qm@web51308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9868fdb31003011053qb853635ua39c2f7fb1b1b7d4@mail.gmail.com> seasonal affective disorder... On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Jim Hadey wrote: > > Hi Mikki, > > A FOF went to the dr complaining of depression and > the dr checked her Vitamin D and she was at 13% of > what was normal. The dr gave her some Vit D pills and > Zoloft. If the Vitamin D was that low I would say try the > Vitamin D and if that does not help try Zoloft - but what > do I know. Just saying try Vitamin D and see if that > helps - it is common to run low during the winter and > it can cause SAD - season something depression. > It helps to take a Vitamin D with Calcium. Hope that helps. > > Best to ya, > > - JIM > > --- On *Mon, 3/1/10, cal que * wrote: > > > From: cal que > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little > carried away) :-) > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:48 PM > > > thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless and > it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. > Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am not alone, that > there are others out there with the same struggles and neuroses that I have. > Not calling you neurotic lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It > means you're smart enough to be crazy ;) > > I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer for me. > SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all throughout my younger > days...most of it unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give yourself > too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and say, "this is when" > and begin your session as planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the good > news is you've done this before, and with a real bastard of a drug too. I > can't imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for > six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all in a few > days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I never want to > repeat. Ever... > > It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad you are > here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne > > wrote: > >> Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us >> all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who >> it might end up helping out. Thank you! >> >> I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, >> waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone >> dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that >> point where it's just prolonging the misery. >> >> Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, >> as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and >> take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning >> bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to >> work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and >> dreary... >> >> Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! >> >> >> On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful > >> wrote: >> >> I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the day >>> as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). Then >>> the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, >>> then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. That should kick in the >>> ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at around >>> 3, I will take the flood dose. >>> >>> This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the >>> whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. I think by >>> then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. >>> >>> I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood providing >>> I don't throw up too much, too fast. Worse comes to worse I could prep an >>> enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster >>> and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last time.. >>> >>> I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline >>> acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. I >>> also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with >>> vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. Years ago I >>> tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to >>> extract various plants. The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I >>> couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. >>> >>> So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does >>> sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, >>> unless I dose well over a gram, at least. And even if I do throw up, it's >>> usually pretty well absorbed by then.. >>> >>> The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way >>> down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. I flew >>> over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would >>> have been taking my dose, when I arrived. I was starting to feel the >>> withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little >>> chunk of the ibo TA. Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, >>> maybe a little bigger? >>> >>> Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride >>> down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the >>> store that I'd need, etc. We went back, and then that evening I ate my >>> flood dose. >>> >>> I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing >>> you know it was hitting me strong. I started having full on waking dreams, >>> and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. That is when I was trying to hide in >>> my covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too >>> long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for >>> me). >>> >>> Then I threw up a lot. I would stop for a little while, then throw up >>> again. Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember >>> everything. I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. I >>> ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. Probably just >>> had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. I didn't get any diarrhea, >>> or anything, but I sure did puke enough. >>> >>> Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's >>> getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. >>> I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth >>> (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. I did pick >>> up smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers >>> and drank a bit here and there. I didn't ever develop a habit (except for >>> the cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it >>> was time to stop. >>> >>> I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do was >>> smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. I could watch people do heroin, helped >>> a real sick buddy find a vein even. Could turn down coke, pills, anything, >>> and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. After 3-4 years >>> I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything but my >>> family and friends to be happy. >>> >>> I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I would >>> never get addicted to anything again. I did opiates a few times, didn't >>> really care for em anymore. I always hated everything about coke but the >>> rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and >>> speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). Alcohol was only nice when I >>> drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just >>> stop and be done with it. For years I didn't have a drink. >>> >>> I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I >>> didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. Then, one night >>> after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few >>> drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. >>> Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! >>> >>> Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a >>> guy on a skateboard. I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a >>> kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. I got >>> on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. So I tried >>> again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right >>> from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. >>> >>> I could feel my collarbone snap. I knew it was broke, cause it ain't the >>> first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. I >>> had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or >>> even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. Previously, for broken bones I'd >>> take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and >>> I'd just give the rest away. >>> >>> Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the >>> way through, not just a hairline fracture. I went to the hospital, and they >>> x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. The >>> ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I >>> went back. >>> >>> They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come >>> back in week. I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told >>> me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd >>> have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me >>> another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. >>> >>> Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. >>> And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. So >>> I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, >>> which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs >>> around a buck a pod. For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a >>> single dose. No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 >>> hours. So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. I was still >>> having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, >>> but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using >>> them for a few months. >>> >>> I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without >>> seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod >>> powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, >>> down another pod, down to a pod a day. I started weighing them accurately, >>> and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. But I would feel >>> sick every morning. >>> >>> Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a >>> little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a >>> day. I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced >>> down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than >>> those few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other >>> alkaloids in em. >>> >>> So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with >>> goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. I >>> usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another >>> pill. I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, >>> goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to >>> get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. >>> >>> Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either trying >>> to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking over >>> my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get done. >>> Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy to go >>> get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum of >>> work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much >>> harder these last couple years. >>> >>> I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. >>> I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am >>> gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see >>> if that will start to boost my energy. I really have to push myself to do >>> it, but I want to make the change. >>> >>> I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't >>> gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. So I am trying to get >>> started on them now. I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light >>> at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every >>> single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in >>> itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some >>> decent, healthier food. >>> >>> So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more >>> each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure >>> out which day my sitter is going to have off. I don't know why I rambled on >>> so long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I >>> just got carried away. >>> >>> If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I >>> thank you all for listening. I know many of you out there are caring souls, >>> always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. Other >>> than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends >>> that help keep me going every day. >>> >>> I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas >>> of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). I am very proud to be >>> a be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find >>> more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around >>> me. Much love, friends. >>> >>> Many Blessings To All!! >>> >>> HH >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S > >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Matt S >>>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" >>>> > >>>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 >>>> hours after a >>>> heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. >>>> After having done a >>>> few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and >>>> methadone, my >>>> experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate >>>> dose seems to >>>> have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed >>>> opiate free >>>> afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you >>>> are full on sick >>>> in order to be safe. I am not recommending anyone try >>>> what I did, it >>>> probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger >>>> or the dose >>>> larger. My treatment for methadone was probably close >>>> to 36 hours >>>> after my last methadone dose and that was so successful >>>> that it was the >>>> final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago >>>> now. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My feeling is that you should continue to take your >>>> morphine as you >>>> have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the >>>> extract that >>>> morning as soon as you wake up. Don't give >>>> yourself a bunch of time to >>>> think about it or talk yourself out of it. Schedule >>>> it in advance and >>>> then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. >>>> Let your sitter >>>> know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take >>>> enough time >>>> to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the >>>> lights and >>>> bedding situated and then go for it. You won't >>>> have time to dwell on >>>> being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a >>>> better idea than >>>> ibogaine. I don't think you need a test dose >>>> either. My understanding >>>> of the test dose is that it is intended to test for >>>> allergic reaction >>>> but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an >>>> allergic >>>> reaction. Since you have done treatments before I >>>> would say skip it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Helpful Hopeful wrote: >>>> >>>> Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low >>>> point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant >>>> withdrawal. I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours >>>> before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. >>>> >>>> I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked >>>> in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get >>>> higher. I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. >>>> 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much >>>> discomfort. But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by >>>> now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me >>>> discomfort and more depression. >>>> >>>> I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for >>>> it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at >>>> about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. I have some >>>> things I really need to get done that I have been putting >>>> off due to depression. I went ahead and took my dose of MS, >>>> at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the >>>> 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. >>>> >>>> After remembering how it went last time, with mild >>>> withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped >>>> contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open >>>> in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first >>>> dose. I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling >>>> the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, >>>> rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. >>>> >>>> Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up >>>> the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka >>>> morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is >>>> probably not playing much of a role. In the prescribing >>>> info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or >>>> grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the >>>> opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could >>>> cause overdose. >>>> >>>> It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the >>>> internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I >>>> am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to >>>> take a small test dose. This should quell my withdrawal and >>>> then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go >>>> ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start >>>> feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. >>>> >>>> Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free >>>> day. I don't want to be under the full influence of the >>>> iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, >>>> I'll be able to manage. I am planning on trying again >>>> real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all >>>> this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I >>>> don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. >>>> >>>> I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about >>>> to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and >>>> advice. I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and >>>> unmotivated. The longer I sit like this, the longer >>>> it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to >>>> go ahead and do it. >>>> >>>> NO FEAR!! :) >>>> >>>> HH >>>> >>>> >>>> n Sat, 2/27/10, sv >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: sv > >>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >>>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi HH- i would suggest >>>> that the depression you are >>>> experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are >>>> taking. What is your >>>> plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness before >>>> taking the TA? In my >>>> experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband >>>> had tapered to 400mg >>>> of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was >>>> successful. He did experience >>>> PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS >>>> free! >>>> i don't think it would >>>> work to divide your dose >>>> into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be >>>> that 15mg of morphine >>>> would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal >>>> starting or at the very >>>> least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks >>>> for the updated >>>> tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a >>>> desire to venture into >>>> chemistry. >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>>> ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>>> :: >>>> [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>>> :::: (]=- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: >>>> (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>>> :: [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: >>>> (]=- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>>> ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: >>>> [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>>> :::: (]=- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 14:17:33 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:17:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <725c35de1003010948p1eef0b83y9dfdc0cd26fd027d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75935.38882.qm@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks Cal, you're a pal! :) And thanks Mikki, too. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated for launch date! Much Love! HH --- On Mon, 3/1/10, cal que wrote: > From: cal que > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 9:48 AM > thanks for taking the time to post that HH - > experience is priceless and it's good to share that > stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. > Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am > not alone, that there are others out there with the same > struggles and neuroses that I have. Not calling you neurotic > lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It means > you're smart enough to be crazy ;) > > > I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is > a killer for me. SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt > lots of it all throughout my younger days...most of it > unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give yourself > too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and > say, "this is when" and begin your session as > planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the > good news is you've done this before, and with a real > bastard of a drug too. I can't imagine using iboga for > methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for six years. I > got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all in a > few days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I > never want to repeat. Ever... > > > It's good to have a board like this -good for all of > us. I'm glad you are here man. Take care and best of > luck to you bro! > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, > Mikki Lynne > wrote: > > Hi HH, I think it's cool you > posted that story, and that it's good for us all to know > at least a little background on each other- you never know > who it might end up helping out. Thank you! > > > > > I had a feeling I've been having the same problem > (lethargy, depression, waking up in W/D and just general > shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone dose. I took it easy > with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that > point where it's just prolonging the misery. > > > > > Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let > it frustrate you, as I'm sure you already know it can > seem to make things worse at first, and take a while to > start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning > bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and > found that to work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but > when it's so darn gray and dreary... > > > > > Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things > turn out with ya! > > > > On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful > wrote: > > > > > I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as > late in the day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours > longer each day, I think). ?Then the day before my sitter > has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, then wake > up and take maybe a third of the dose. ?That should kick in > the ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she > gets home at around 3, I will take the flood dose. > > > > > This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and > night, plus the whole next day, until the following morning > to watch after me. ?I think by then I'll be okay to > take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. > > > > > I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra > flood providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. > ?Worse comes to worse I could prep an enema, but I have > faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster > and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last > time.. > > > > > I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the > mescaline acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it > bothering their stomachs. ?I also know that anything I have > ever tried to take that was made acidic with vinegar to > drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. ?Years ago > I tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to > learning how to extract various plants. ?The vinegar was > the worst, and other times, I couldn't get enough down > for long enough to get strong enough effects. > > > > > So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even > though it does sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make > it through, without purging, unless I dose well over a gram, > at least. ?And even if I do throw up, it's usually > pretty well absorbed by then.. > > > > > The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered > all the way down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel > pretty crappy daily. ?I flew over to Sara's in > Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would > have been taking my dose, when I arrived. ?I was starting > to feel the withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her > home, and gave me a little chunk of the ibo TA. ?Not sure > exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, maybe a little > bigger? > > > > > Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took > me to ride down to the city and meet some cool people and > gather some things from the store that I'd need, etc. > ?We went back, and then that evening I ate my flood dose. > > > > > I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the > next thing you know it was hitting me strong. ?I started > having full on waking dreams, and seeing all kinds of crazy > visions. ?That is when I was trying to hide in my covers > from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it > was too long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara > kept a bucket nearby for me). > > > > > Then I threw up a lot. ?I would stop for a little while, > then throw up again. ?Sara would bring me teas or water, > don't totally remember everything. ?I didn't want > to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. ?I ended up > throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. > ?Probably just had to get all that toxic crap out of my > body. ?I didn't get any diarrhea, or anything, but I > sure did puke enough. > > > > > Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, > since it's getting late, but for five years I was clean > of pretty much all hard drugs. ?I stopped cigarettes for 3 > years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth (no > sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. > ?I did pick up smoking again when I moved back around a > bunch of smokers and drinkers and drank a bit here and > there. ?I didn't ever develop a habit (except for the > cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could > tell when it was time to stop. > > > > > I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only > thing I would do was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. ?I > could watch people do heroin, helped a real sick buddy find > a vein even. ?Could turn down coke, pills, anything, and I > didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. > ?After 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer felt I > really needed anything but my family and friends to be > happy. > > > > > I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt > I like I would never get addicted to anything again. ?I did > opiates a few times, didn't really care for em anymore. > ?I always hated everything about coke but the rush, which > just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke > and speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). ?Alcohol was > only nice when I drank it regularly, and then I didn't > like the side effects, so I'd just stop and be done with > it. ?For years I didn't have a drink. > > > > > I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of > psychedelics, but I didn't want anything to do with any > really addictive drugs. ?Then, one night after a Dead show, > I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few drinks, > then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of > mescaline HCl. ?Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for > free even! > > > > > Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing > up and I saw a guy on a skateboard. ?I was trippin' on > mescaline and wanted to give a kick-flip a shot, since I had > done 'em probably thousands of times. ?I got on and > tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. ?So > I tried again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance > and it shot out right from under me and I fell flat on my > back/shoulder. > > > > > I could feel my collarbone snap. ?I knew it was broke, > cause it ain't the first bone I broke (by far), and I > had broken my other collarbone in HS. ?I had broken other > bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or even > ibuprofen worked for some breaks. ?Previously, for broken > bones I'd take the vicodin for a few days for the major > pain, and the bone was set and I'd just give the rest > away. > > > > > Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it > was snapped all the way through, not just a hairline > fracture. ?I went to the hospital, and they x-rayed it and > told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. ?The > ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for > my pain, so I went back. > > > > > They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and > asked me to come back in week. ?I went back in a week, and > they checked it and basically told me all they could do was > keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd have to > re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they > gave me another script of vicodin and told me I could keep > coming back. > > > > > Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting > my time and money. ?And when my vicodin ran out I was still > feelin some pretty acute pain. ?So I said screw this, they > make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, which has > plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, > and costs around a buck a pod. ?For 6 dollars a day I was > pain free all day with a single dose. ?No eating tons of > pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 hours. ?So I > used the pods until the pain started lessening. ?I was > still having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe > enough to keep taking opiates, but by then I noticed I was > again feeling withdrawal since I had been using them for a > few months. > > > > > I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, > that without seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average > (roughly 50 grams of pod powder a day in my morning coffee), > to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, down another pod, down > to a pod a day. ?I started weighing them accurately, and > got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. ?But I > would feel sick every morning. > > > > > Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting > my dose a little bit, and got back up to around a steady > 15-20 grams of pod powder a day. ?I feel stupid, and > ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced down to > just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even > less than those few grams of pods, especially when you > consider the mix of other alkaloids in em. > > > > > So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every > morning with goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but > not quite really sick yet. ?I usually go use the bathroom, > wait until my normal time, then chew up another pill. ?I > never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting > chills, goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything > after an hour, so I try to get all the stuff I can to try > and take care of my family. > > > > > Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online > either trying to help other people from various internet > places I visit, or talking over my problems, but it's > been taking away from other things I need to get done. > ?Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster > the energy to go get dressed and walk to the store, or to do > more than the bare minimum of work I can to scrape by, and > it's crappy how it just seems times are so much harder > these last couple years. > > > > > I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to > facilitate a change. ?I mentioned I started doing some > sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am gonna continue do > do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see > if that will start to boost my energy. ?I really have to > push myself to do it, but I want to make the change. > > > > > I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible > withdrawal, but isn't gonna create me new good habits > out of thin air. ?So I am trying to get started on them > now. ?I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the > light at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop > feeling like crap every single morning as soon as my eyes > open, which is a big enough relief in itself to get me to go > take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some decent, > healthier food. > > > > > So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a > little bit more each day, and am setting the day I take my > next journey, as soon as I figure out which day my sitter is > going to have off. ?I don't know why I rambled on so > long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I > was for awhile, I just got carried away. > > > > > If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm > surprised, but I thank you all for listening. ?I know many > of you out there are caring souls, always offer great > advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. ?Other > than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of > my internet friends that help keep me going every day. > > > > > I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some > of my areas of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel > good!). ?I am very proud to be a be a part of this list and > a couple internet places, where it seems I find more friends > than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world > around me. ?Much love, friends. > > > > > Many Blessings To All!! > > > > HH > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S > wrote: > > > > > From: Matt S > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 > > hours after a > > heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. > > After having done a > > few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and > > methadone, my > > experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate > > dose seems to > > have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed > > opiate free > > afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you > > are full on sick > > in order to be safe. ?I am not recommending anyone try > > what I did, it > > probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger > > or the dose > > larger. ?My treatment for methadone was probably close > > to 36 hours > > after my last methadone dose and that was so successful > > that it was the > > final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago > > now. > > > > > > > > My feeling is that you should continue to take your > > morphine as you > > have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the > > extract that > > morning as soon as you wake up. ?Don't give > > yourself a bunch of time to > > think about it or talk yourself out of it. ?Schedule > > it in advance and > > then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. > > Let your sitter > > know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take > > enough time > > to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the > > lights and > > bedding situated and then go for it. ?You won't > > have time to dwell on > > being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a > > better idea than > > ibogaine. ?I don't think you need a test dose > > either. ?My understanding > > of the test dose is that it is intended to test for > > allergic reaction > > but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an > > allergic > > reaction. ?Since you have done treatments before I > > would say skip it. > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Helpful Hopeful wrote: > > > > ?Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low > > point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant > > withdrawal. ?I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours > > before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. > > > > I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked > > in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get > > higher. ?I think my previous, lower dose iboga session > (Dec. > > 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without > much > > discomfort. ?But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone > by > > now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me > > discomfort and more depression. > > > > I had thought about it last night, and almost just went > for > > it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at > > about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. ?I have > some > > things I really need to get done that I have been putting > > off due to depression. ?I went ahead and took my dose of > MS, > > at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the > > 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. > > > > After remembering how it went last time, with mild > > withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped > > contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open > > in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first > > dose. ?I think I may have to wait until I just start > feeling > > the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, > > rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. > > > > Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew > up > > the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka > > morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release > is > > probably not playing much of a role. ?In the prescribing > > info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or > > grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of > the > > opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could > > cause overdose. > > > > It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the > > internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, > I > > am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to > > take a small test dose. ?This should quell my withdrawal > and > > then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to > go > > ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start > > feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. > > > > Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free > > day. ?I don't want to be under the full influence of > the > > iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or > so, > > I'll be able to manage. ?I am planning on trying > again > > real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and > all > > this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I > > don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. > > > > I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about > > to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and > > advice. ?I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and > > unmotivated. ?The longer I sit like this, the longer > > it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to > > go ahead and do it. > > > > NO FEAR!! ?:) > > > > HH > > > > > > n Sat, 2/27/10, sv > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ? From: sv > > Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy > > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi HH- i would suggest > > that the depression you are > > experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are > > taking. What is your > > plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness ?before > > taking the TA? In my > > experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My > husband > > had tapered to 400mg > > of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was > > successful. He did experience > > PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS > > free! > > i don't think it would > > work to divide your dose > > into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be > > that 15mg of morphine > > would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal > > starting or at the very > > least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks > > for the updated > > tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a > > desire to venture into > > chemistry. > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > > :: > > [%][) > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: > > (]=- > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > > :: ?[%][) > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: > > (]=- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: > > [%][) > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: > (]=- > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: ?[%][) > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: > (]=- > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: > (]=- > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: ?[%][) > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: > (]=- > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 18:55:54 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 18:55:54 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <956778.11317.qm@web51308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <725c35de1003010948p1eef0b83y9dfdc0cd26fd027d@mail.gmail.com> <956778.11317.qm@web51308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003011555k59bb4c3awf7d68fb5ddee7c1b@mail.gmail.com> Wow Jim! I have never considered a vitamin D deficiency to have these effects but after seeing your post it makes to me...SAD is a real bitch, I get it every year almost like clockwork in Feb and march...it's uncanny. I see where people go to a tanning salon to get down on some phototherapy, but I always thought that was to treat it psychosomatic-ally. It seems our skin produces vitamin D as a result of exposure to UV/A. On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Jim Hadey wrote: > > Hi Mikki, > > A FOF went to the dr complaining of depression and > the dr checked her Vitamin D and she was at 13% of > what was normal. The dr gave her some Vit D pills and > Zoloft. If the Vitamin D was that low I would say try the > Vitamin D and if that does not help try Zoloft - but what > do I know. Just saying try Vitamin D and see if that > helps - it is common to run low during the winter and > it can cause SAD - season something depression. > It helps to take a Vitamin D with Calcium. Hope that helps. > > Best to ya, > > - JIM > > --- On *Mon, 3/1/10, cal que * wrote: > > > From: cal que > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little > carried away) :-) > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:48 PM > > > thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless and > it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. > Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am not alone, that > there are others out there with the same struggles and neuroses that I have. > Not calling you neurotic lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It > means you're smart enough to be crazy ;) > > I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer for me. > SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all throughout my younger > days...most of it unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give yourself > too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and say, "this is when" > and begin your session as planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the good > news is you've done this before, and with a real bastard of a drug too. I > can't imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for > six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all in a few > days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I never want to > repeat. Ever... > > It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad you are > here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne > > wrote: > >> Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us >> all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who >> it might end up helping out. Thank you! >> >> I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, >> waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone >> dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that >> point where it's just prolonging the misery. >> >> Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, >> as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and >> take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning >> bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to >> work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and >> dreary... >> >> Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! >> >> >> On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful > >> wrote: >> >> I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the day >>> as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). Then >>> the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, >>> then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. That should kick in the >>> ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at around >>> 3, I will take the flood dose. >>> >>> This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the >>> whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. I think by >>> then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. >>> >>> I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood providing >>> I don't throw up too much, too fast. Worse comes to worse I could prep an >>> enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster >>> and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last time.. >>> >>> I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline >>> acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. I >>> also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with >>> vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. Years ago I >>> tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to >>> extract various plants. The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I >>> couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. >>> >>> So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does >>> sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, >>> unless I dose well over a gram, at least. And even if I do throw up, it's >>> usually pretty well absorbed by then.. >>> >>> The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way >>> down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. I flew >>> over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would >>> have been taking my dose, when I arrived. I was starting to feel the >>> withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little >>> chunk of the ibo TA. Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, >>> maybe a little bigger? >>> >>> Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride >>> down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the >>> store that I'd need, etc. We went back, and then that evening I ate my >>> flood dose. >>> >>> I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing >>> you know it was hitting me strong. I started having full on waking dreams, >>> and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. That is when I was trying to hide in >>> my covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too >>> long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for >>> me). >>> >>> Then I threw up a lot. I would stop for a little while, then throw up >>> again. Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember >>> everything. I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. I >>> ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. Probably just >>> had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. I didn't get any diarrhea, >>> or anything, but I sure did puke enough. >>> >>> Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's >>> getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. >>> I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth >>> (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. I did pick >>> up smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers >>> and drank a bit here and there. I didn't ever develop a habit (except for >>> the cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it >>> was time to stop. >>> >>> I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do was >>> smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. I could watch people do heroin, helped >>> a real sick buddy find a vein even. Could turn down coke, pills, anything, >>> and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. After 3-4 years >>> I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything but my >>> family and friends to be happy. >>> >>> I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I would >>> never get addicted to anything again. I did opiates a few times, didn't >>> really care for em anymore. I always hated everything about coke but the >>> rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and >>> speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). Alcohol was only nice when I >>> drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just >>> stop and be done with it. For years I didn't have a drink. >>> >>> I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I >>> didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. Then, one night >>> after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few >>> drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. >>> Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! >>> >>> Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a >>> guy on a skateboard. I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a >>> kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. I got >>> on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. So I tried >>> again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right >>> from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. >>> >>> I could feel my collarbone snap. I knew it was broke, cause it ain't the >>> first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. I >>> had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or >>> even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. Previously, for broken bones I'd >>> take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and >>> I'd just give the rest away. >>> >>> Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the >>> way through, not just a hairline fracture. I went to the hospital, and they >>> x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. The >>> ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I >>> went back. >>> >>> They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come >>> back in week. I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told >>> me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd >>> have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me >>> another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. >>> >>> Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. >>> And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. So >>> I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, >>> which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs >>> around a buck a pod. For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a >>> single dose. No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 >>> hours. So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. I was still >>> having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, >>> but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using >>> them for a few months. >>> >>> I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without >>> seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod >>> powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, >>> down another pod, down to a pod a day. I started weighing them accurately, >>> and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. But I would feel >>> sick every morning. >>> >>> Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a >>> little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a >>> day. I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced >>> down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than >>> those few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other >>> alkaloids in em. >>> >>> So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with >>> goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. I >>> usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another >>> pill. I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, >>> goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to >>> get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. >>> >>> Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either trying >>> to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking over >>> my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get done. >>> Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy to go >>> get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum of >>> work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much >>> harder these last couple years. >>> >>> I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. >>> I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am >>> gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see >>> if that will start to boost my energy. I really have to push myself to do >>> it, but I want to make the change. >>> >>> I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't >>> gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. So I am trying to get >>> started on them now. I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light >>> at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every >>> single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in >>> itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some >>> decent, healthier food. >>> >>> So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more >>> each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure >>> out which day my sitter is going to have off. I don't know why I rambled on >>> so long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I >>> just got carried away. >>> >>> If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I >>> thank you all for listening. I know many of you out there are caring souls, >>> always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. Other >>> than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends >>> that help keep me going every day. >>> >>> I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas >>> of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). I am very proud to be >>> a be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find >>> more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around >>> me. Much love, friends. >>> >>> Many Blessings To All!! >>> >>> HH >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S > >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Matt S >>>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" >>>> > >>>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 >>>> hours after a >>>> heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. >>>> After having done a >>>> few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and >>>> methadone, my >>>> experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate >>>> dose seems to >>>> have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed >>>> opiate free >>>> afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you >>>> are full on sick >>>> in order to be safe. I am not recommending anyone try >>>> what I did, it >>>> probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger >>>> or the dose >>>> larger. My treatment for methadone was probably close >>>> to 36 hours >>>> after my last methadone dose and that was so successful >>>> that it was the >>>> final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago >>>> now. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My feeling is that you should continue to take your >>>> morphine as you >>>> have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the >>>> extract that >>>> morning as soon as you wake up. Don't give >>>> yourself a bunch of time to >>>> think about it or talk yourself out of it. Schedule >>>> it in advance and >>>> then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. >>>> Let your sitter >>>> know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take >>>> enough time >>>> to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the >>>> lights and >>>> bedding situated and then go for it. You won't >>>> have time to dwell on >>>> being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a >>>> better idea than >>>> ibogaine. I don't think you need a test dose >>>> either. My understanding >>>> of the test dose is that it is intended to test for >>>> allergic reaction >>>> but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an >>>> allergic >>>> reaction. Since you have done treatments before I >>>> would say skip it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Helpful Hopeful wrote: >>>> >>>> Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low >>>> point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant >>>> withdrawal. I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours >>>> before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. >>>> >>>> I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked >>>> in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get >>>> higher. I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. >>>> 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much >>>> discomfort. But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by >>>> now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me >>>> discomfort and more depression. >>>> >>>> I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for >>>> it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at >>>> about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. I have some >>>> things I really need to get done that I have been putting >>>> off due to depression. I went ahead and took my dose of MS, >>>> at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the >>>> 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. >>>> >>>> After remembering how it went last time, with mild >>>> withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped >>>> contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open >>>> in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first >>>> dose. I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling >>>> the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, >>>> rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. >>>> >>>> Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up >>>> the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka >>>> morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is >>>> probably not playing much of a role. In the prescribing >>>> info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or >>>> grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the >>>> opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could >>>> cause overdose. >>>> >>>> It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the >>>> internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I >>>> am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to >>>> take a small test dose. This should quell my withdrawal and >>>> then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go >>>> ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start >>>> feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. >>>> >>>> Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free >>>> day. I don't want to be under the full influence of the >>>> iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, >>>> I'll be able to manage. I am planning on trying again >>>> real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all >>>> this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I >>>> don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. >>>> >>>> I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about >>>> to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and >>>> advice. I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and >>>> unmotivated. The longer I sit like this, the longer >>>> it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to >>>> go ahead and do it. >>>> >>>> NO FEAR!! :) >>>> >>>> HH >>>> >>>> >>>> n Sat, 2/27/10, sv >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: sv > >>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >>>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi HH- i would suggest >>>> that the depression you are >>>> experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are >>>> taking. What is your >>>> plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness before >>>> taking the TA? In my >>>> experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband >>>> had tapered to 400mg >>>> of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was >>>> successful. He did experience >>>> PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS >>>> free! >>>> i don't think it would >>>> work to divide your dose >>>> into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be >>>> that 15mg of morphine >>>> would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal >>>> starting or at the very >>>> least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks >>>> for the updated >>>> tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a >>>> desire to venture into >>>> chemistry. >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>>> ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>>> :: >>>> [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>>> :::: (]=- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: >>>> (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>>> :: [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: >>>> (]=- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>>> ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: >>>> [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>>> :::: (]=- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gbgbunnie at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 02:24:17 2010 From: gbgbunnie at gmail.com (g. bunnie) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 07:24:17 +0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction Tek In-Reply-To: References: <247571.23694.qm@web55902.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7c42bcc1003012324q753f5910ue3afbad9dcbc575@mail.gmail.com> i have got at least 7 copies at this time, so at least it for sure got out there :-) yahoo is slow with shiznit sometimes, realllly slow. like i send to it from gmail and its not there 9 hours later slow. the list is slow sometimes too, but a hour lagtime or something, not days off in space. if its happening a lot, try getting a account on gmail. yeh you have no privacy from google but its makes a sweet list reading account, threads it makes it easy to find. its really nice. this is to Helpful Hopeful I mean, replying to the message not Patrick making sure it got resent. On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote: > Entire message, reposted. > > We are working on a lot of stuff at the back-end, I'm not sure why 3 or 4 versions of what HH sent went through, but not the final one. ?But here it is. > > Patrick > > ... > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Helpful Hopeful >> Date: February 28, 2010 10:52:54 PM EST >> To: "Patrick K. Kroupa" >> Subject: Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction Tek >> >> I have posted the whole extraction a couple times, but I will add it in it's entirety again, with some added notes on purification from an old email from Howard Lotsof ?at the end. >> >> It also contains even better measurements than the original tek I posted, when it comes to using the acetone and hydrochloric (aka muriatic) acid. >> >> The extra purity for pure ibogaine HCl, may need a couple more supplies, but IMHO, is not needed, unless someone just really wants to be sure and use 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl. >> >> So here it is again: >> >> Okay, new UPDATED tek with added tips: >> >> The Extraction: >> >> What you need: Plain white distilled vinegar, a stainless steel, ceramic, HDPE 2, or non-reactive container, janitorial strength (10%+) non-sudsy ammonia, distilled water, a funnel, coffee filters, old t-shirt, and the iboga bark. >> >> A clear, non-reactive container for performing the extraction helps a lot, when watching the reactions, BTW. >> >> Optional for added purity: Acetone, muriatic acid (28-36% HCl), and Everclear ?(95% pure ethanol), (maybe anhydrous epsom salts aka magnesium sulfate or anhydrous calcium sulfate, which is not 100% necessary). >> >> 1: Take the bark, and make sure it's as fine of a powder as possible. >> >> 2: Add enough vinegar to thoroughly cover the bark. A good measurement for the vinegar is about 5 times the amount (volume) of vinegar to the weight of bark. >> >> In this instance 40g of bark times 5 would be about 200 mls of vinegar per soak. One may need slightly more in the first couple extractions to thoroughly cover the bark, and excess can be used safely, however it will lengthen the time of filtering later, so try and keep the volumes minimal. >> >> 3: The bark can be stirred occasionally, and left to sit for at least one hour. >> >> Adding heat makes the bark harder to filter, and isn't necessary. >> >> 4: After an hour has passed, one needs to filter the bark from the vinegar with a cloth t-shirt. Squeeze out the bark to gather all the vinegar and save this. >> >> The bark is then returned to the container for another soak. This should be done 4 times to be sure to get out all the alkaloids. (One can taste the bark when dried to see if any bitterness remains, however, after 4 soaks, it seemed to remove nearly all the bitterness from the bark for me.) >> >> 5: While letting the bark soak again, as in the previous steps, filter the collected vinegar through coffee filters. >> >> This can take a long time to filter, since the coffee filters clog easily, and may need to be replaced often. Have patience though. If you can leave it sitting in the funnel, with a filter, the juice will eventually pass through. This extra filtering isn't 100% necessary but it will help remove all the finest plant particles from the solution, so the initial extraction will come out cleaner, so it's a good idea, IMO. >> >> 6: Once all the vinegar has been collected and filtered through a coffee filter, you have two options. >> >> The first would be to evaporate the vinegar a bit, by using low heat and a fan. Under boiling (do not boil!) is fine to reduce the vinegar, and will make it easier to deal with less liquid. A fan blowing over a heater vent worked well for me. You don't want to evaporate it to thickness, though, just enough to make it easy to work with in a smaller container. >> >> The second option is to skip the evaporation and proceed directly to the next step, which can save time. >> >> 7: Once you have all your vinegar collected, and evaporated a good bit, if you choose, you are ready to add the ammonia. You can slowly pour ammonia into the vinegar, to make it basic. pH ?papers/pens aren't needed, but if used, just make sure the pH ?is above 10.1. Ibogaine's pKa is 8.1. (from sources on the internet) >> >> As you add the ammonia, the solution will heat slightly, and you will see cloudy precipitate forming. You can add more ammonia, to be sure, as too much won't hurt, it will just add to the amount of solution that needs to be filtered, which can take awhile. >> >> 8: Now, if left to settle (can take a few hours), the precipitate (freebase total alkaloids) will sink to the bottom of the container. The majority of the clear solution at the top can be siphoned off, and filtered to be sure no precipitate is in it. >> >> If it looks clear (tea colored, still), not cloudy though, all the precipitate should have sunken to the bottom. By removing a large portion of the upper clear (tea colored) water, this will allow you to have much less solution to filter out your alkaloids. >> >> You can save everything you siphoned off and add more ammonia later, to be sure you got out all the freebase alkaloids, but it didn't seem to make any difference for me. >> >> 9: Now you can filter the muddy, alkaloid containing solution through coffee filters. >> >> Filtering this can take a good bit as the precipitate begins to clog the filter, but again, be patient, as the solution will eventually pass through the filter completely. This may take overnight, so don't worry if it takes a long time. Once you have filtered the solution, you can set aside the clear tea colored water for later, to add more ammonia, just to be sure you collected all the precipitate. >> >> 10: You should now have a coffee filter with all the brown freebase precipitate stuck to it. You should then add a liberal amount of distilled water to the filter in the funnel. You will THOROUGHLY rinse the precipitate with the distilled water to wash away any extra impurities (ammonium acetate). >> >> Again, waiting for the water to pass through the alkaloid coated coffee filter may take awhile, so just have patience. >> >> 11: This precipitate can then be placed in front of a fan with a warm air current, away from UV light, and left to dry. >> >> This is now your crude (estimated from Chris' notes at 40-50% pure) freebase total alkaloid extract. This can be capped when dry and used as is, and should be much cleaner than the simple vinegar extraction. However, for those that want it more pure, there are two options. >> >> First option: >> >> 1: Take the filter with the dried crusty precipitate and break up the precipitate to a fine powder. You can use the same filter, or take a new one and place it in a funnel that is plugged (I use a two liter bottle with the bottom cut off for a funnel, so capping the opening can seal it, but a finger may be used). Add the crushed precipitate to the plugged funnel and saturate it with vinegar to dissolve as much as possible. >> >> 2: Let the vinegar sit in the filter with the precipitate, maybe stir it around a bit in the filter, then let it drain through, and save the vinegar. >> >> Be careful not to poke a hole in the filter while stirring/agitating. >> >> 3: You can repeat with fresh vinegar another time, and collect all the vinegar. >> >> 4: Add ammonia to the vinegar again, to precipitate the alkaloids, which should be even cleaner this time. >> >> 5: Re-filter out all the alkaloids, rinse thoroughly with distilled water, and let dry as above. >> >> This can now be used as is and should be even cleaner. >> >> >> Second (more involved) option, for much more pure TA: >> >> Okay so you have your brown precipitate in your coffee filter, now dried up, from the first portion of the extraction. >> >> 1: You now, take your acetone and add 15-18 mls of acetone per gram of freebase TA extract (brown freebase powder), and soak freebase in the filter with it. You can stir around the precipitate in the filter (again be careful not to poke a hole in it), and wash it two or three times with the SAME acetone. Do not go over 18 mls per gram of brown TA freebase, but be sure to soak as much color from the solid as possible. The filter should contain any bark crud, and any other impurities, when finished. >> >> This will remove the alkaloids from the solid filtrand (insoluble plant gunk that's left in the filter), since the freebase is soluble in acetone. Chris Jenks says about 50-60% of the crud is left behind as insoluble plant material. >> >> 2: Take your muriatic acid (hydrogen chloride in a water solution, aka hydrochloric acid in solution), and add it very slowly, to the acetone. You must do this drop wise, and watch as the precipitate forms. (One milliliter for each six grams of TA) is added in small portions, slowly, until the precipitation of the solid begins. >> >> If you own a pH tester, when the acetone is at pH ?6.1, 99% of the ibogaine should be converted to the HCl salt form, and precipitate out, or be caught in the tiny amount of water that the HCl is mixed with (with 1 ml of muriatic acid, the water is negligible). This can be filtered out, and the tiny bit of water separated, and left to evaporate to be sure to recover all the iboga alkaloid HCl salts (wasn't necessary for me). >> >> Adding too much acid with water can start to redissolve the iboga TA HCl. You can add a few drops at a time, and watch as the precipitate forms. When it stops forming, you can place this into the fridge, to chill for a few hours (overnight may be better), before filtering, and this will increase the yield. >> >> 3: Filter out the iboga PTA HCl. >> >> This is nearly pure TA HCl, but there may be a bit left in the acetone, and other residual alkaloids will also be in the acetone. >> >> You can evaporate some of the acetone with a fan and low heat (no flames please), then remove any acidic water from the acetone, and let it evaporate to collect anything there. (Drying the acetone with anhydrous epsom salts, aka magnesium sulfate, or anhydrous calcium sulfate, then filtering them out by pouring the acetone through a coffee filter can be done instead of separating and evaporating any extra water but doesn't increase the yield much, according to Chris.) >> >> Then treat the reduced (possibly dried) acetone with the muriatic acid again (a drop or two), and harvest any more crystals of iboga PTA HCl that precipitates. Filter it out as well and add it to the first precipitate. >> >> Another option would be to gas HCl acid though the acetone to precipitate the iboga PTA HCl crystals, but this can be covered later, if anyone is really interested. I haven't tried this with ibogaine HCl, but am pretty sure it'd work fine, although it is more difficult and requires a few more supplies. >> >> 4: (Optional and only needed if going for pure ibogaine HCl) If you would like pure ibogaine HCl, without the other alkaloids, you can take the iboga TA HCl crystals, and dissolve it in boiling ethanol. >> >> The boiling ethanol should be added drop wise, just until all the ibogaine HCl has dissolved. >> >> 5: This ethanol solution is then left to cool in the fridge and the ibogaine will recrystallize. >> >> This will make the ibogaine HCl form much more pure crystals and can remove some of the ibogamine/ibogaline if still present in the precipitate. >> >> It is not necessary unless going for 98%+ purity, and repeated recrystallization can yield very pure ibogaine HCl, but can cost a bit of yield. The ibogaline and ibogamine have very similar action as ibogaine and may also provide similar effects, so are fine for using for a session. >> >> (There are more added notes below for those chemistry nuts that want PURE ibogaine HCl.) >> >> When this is dry, it is ready to take. >> >> 6: (Optional, for those who would like the PTAA) For those who want to recover all the alkaloids, so they can take a complete total alkaloid extract (or Purified Total Active Alkaloid extract, aka PTAA) of high purity, they should take the acetone that they salted/precipitated out the ibogaine HCl, and evaporate it in front of a fan with warm air current. >> >> The resulting leftover alkaloids will be an unstable oil. >> >> 7: Dissolve this oil in distilled water. >> >> 8: Add ammonia to this water with the oil dissolved into it. >> >> You will again see the freebase residual alkaloids precipitate out of the water/ammonia solution. >> >> 9: Filter out the freebase alkaloids, and rinse again thoroughly with distilled water. >> >> 10: Let the freebase residual alkaloids dry completely. >> >> You can then add your freebase residual alkaloids to your PTA HCls, and capsulize it. Freebases will be converted to the HCl salts in your stomach, so turning them into the HCl salt before ingesting is probably unnecessary. >> >> This Purified Total Alkaloid extract, or PTA, should be considered very pure, and a 15-20 mg/kg dose of this (mainly for addiction treatment at this level) is just as powerful, if not more so, as the pure ibogaine HCl, so estimate your dosage with this extract accordingly. This is powerful medicine and going higher than 25 mg/kg could cause complications, so don't be a hero. This also lasts in the system for months, so it's recommended not to take another flood dose within 60-90 days minimum, to be safe. >> >> This is optional and has not been tried by myself, so if Chris or anyone out there thinks there are any updates, more details, or improvements, please feel free to add them, as the final purification to pure ibogaine HCl, was not my goal, just a much more pure TAA. >> >> Further purification notes, for those wanting pure ibogaine HCl, without the added alkaloids, from here: http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/032899.html >> >> Purification of ibogaine from the total alkaloids. >> >> The total alkaloids from the extraction step is dissolved in ethyl acetate >> (minimum) and treated with norite (measurements anyone?), filtered and evaporated to dryness. The residue is dissolved in hot ethanol. After chilling for two or three days, the crude ibogaine is filtered and the filtrate is evaporated to half volume, chilled for one day and a second crop of ibogaine is collected. >> >> The crude ibogaine is recrystallized from ethanol. This product is dissolved in toluene and filtered through three times its weight of neutral alumina (activity 1), and the column washed with toluene. Evaporation of the solvent crystallization of the residue from ethanol yields a pure sample of ibogaine. >> >> Ibogaine hydrochloride >> >> To a stirred solution of ibogaine in minimum acetone is added aqueous HCl >> (1:1) dropwise (excess). The crystalline ibogaine hydrochloride separates >> immediately. The product is filtered and washed with acetone. It is >> recrystallized from ethanol yielding a white salt. >> >> Extra tips: >> >> Norite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norite >> >> Ethyl Acetate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate >> >> Also, this further purification requires a chromatography column, neutral alumina to pack the column, and toluene, so it may be a bit more difficult for the kitchen chemist without the proper tools.. It also lacks measurements, and details, so I'd need to play around to find them myself. >> >> Honestly, the added purification is not really needed, especially if one only wants a Purified TA or PTAA. It is only necessary if 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl is desired. >> >> BTW, freebase TA is total alkaloids (actually the ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine and residual alkaloids), PTA is purified total alkaloids (ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine in HCl salts), PTAA is purified total active alkaloids (all active alkaloids from tabernanthe iboga including, but not limited to, ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine, tabernanthine, (?), in HCl salt and freebase mix). >> >> Hope this has everything anyone needs, but I can help out if anyone has any questions, up to the further purification, as I don't have a chromatography column, and didn't have enough bark to waste any of the extra alkaloids from the root bark. >> >> I haven't tried to extract pure ibogaine HCl since the PTA/PTAA that comes out, looks plenty clean, removes all the plant material, makes the dosage easy to calculate, and may be easier on sensitive stomachs, although nausea is still common with even the pure alkaloids. >> >> I have read that the pure ibogaine HCl is even more gentle on the stomach, but haven't had the experience myself, so I can't give a personal account. >> >> If any experts out there have any critiques for the updated tek, please feel free to add whatever you can. Big thanks to Chris Jenks!! Also, thanks to panoramix over at the DMT-Nexus.com for helping add some measurements for the purification. >> >> I've tried to make this as clear and detailed as possible, and watching Chris' presentation from the ibogaine conference can help with pictures, for those who are visual learners.. >> >> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4730969 (This one has the extraction by Chris Jenks, with pictures and his description. He starts 1:00:00 in, but plenty of good info before hand.) >> >> Best of luck to everyone, and please use this with utmost respect and responsibility, as we don't need to lose ANYONE (else) with this medicine! >> >> Okay, that is the final draft as of now. I hope that incorporates any of the things that Chris brought up, and I hope it is more clear in each step with better terminology. >> >> I will explain later how to make a little contraption to bubble HCl gas through the acetone to precipitate the iboga alkaloid HCl's without having any water, which might improve purity and yield from the start, but this will be when I can get around to finding more time to type it up in a decent manner. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> PS. Also, in a side note from another email to the list from Chris he adds, quote: >> >> I took a portion of the acetone that would have been used in the extraction of the TA and added the proper amount of HCl solution to it (determined by previous runs) and then dried the solution with anhydrous calcium sulfate. The dried solution of HCl in acetone was then used to acidify the acetone extract of TA. The yield was 38% of PTA HCl from TA, compared with an average yield of 37% for the previous nine runs, so there was no significant improvement by removing the water. >> >> Also, if you are trying to make TAA, you shouldn't have to be so careful with the measurements of acetone and HCl, as long as you use enough acetone to extract the TA completely, and enough HCl to acidify the extract. Instead of filtering out the PTA HCl you could just evaporate the acetone and continue as usual in making RA, which is this case would give homogeneous TAA base. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> HH >> >> >> >> > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 03:16:12 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 00:16:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction Tek (another idea?) In-Reply-To: <7c42bcc1003012324q753f5910ue3afbad9dcbc575@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <180257.7480.qm@web55905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Yeah, I got an email from the 24th I think today.. Sorry for sending so many but this one that Patrick sent is the most updated, detailed, and best explained, I think. I still would like to play around with it more and see what else I could figure out, but the bark is expensive, so I may have to wait awhile. I was just thinking (which is what happens, when replying/sending, so I make edits and add more stuff, lol) that maybe the added oily freebase alkaloids, that won't precipitate from the acetone could be dissolved in some vinegar or some vinegar and water, then evaporated to make acetic acid salts (although these are probably gonna be hygroscopic, if that works). One could try carbonic acid, citric acid, fumaric acid, tartaric acid, whatever one has access too, and see if any of those work to salt out those added alkaloids. Could just take some of that freebase oil, split it up evenly each in a separate small amount of distilled water, then add each acid (pH maybe 4 or even lower(?) in case any have real low pKa's) and evaporate the water. Maybe one of the conentrated acids could be used to salt them from the acetone even. See if any of them form crystals or a nice solid. I'd give it a shot if the bark wasn't so expensive, but for anyone thinking about extracting kilos, it might make an even better, full alkaloid TA, in which all the alkaloids are more stable, and very pure, with all the active alkaloids of iboga present, and in a salt form. Wouldn't that be awesome? There are a lot of different acids one could try. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- My reasoning: Trichocereus bridgesii is Achuma cactus, with the most extra alkaloids of any Trichocereus (just under peyote aka Lophphora williamsi). When extracting Trichocereus bridgesii, made basic with calcium hydroxide (plus a tiny bit of water to make it a paste), with d-limonene (orange oil and NP solvent), one first extracts the paste with the d-limonene and filters it out, then uses acetic acid to pull out the mescaline, then can use some carbonic and citric acid mix, all of which you can find in the grocery store, to pull out the added alkaloids, it makes a TA achuma or bridgesii extract. This has many more effects, including two mild MAOIs contained in the cactus, which intensify the effects of the mescaline. By making the TA, you get much more of the full alkaloid profile of the cactus making it a more powerful, slightly different experience. Some people prefer pure mescaline HCl, while some prefer the full alkaloid profile of the bridgesii (just like our iboganaut friends!). Either person can be happy by either extracting and recrystallizing the mescaline HCl one way, or they can use another way with several different acids to make an extract of the various alkaloid salts of the cactus. Some acids form nice crystals of each type of alkaloid, just got to figure out which one works with each alkaloid.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another thought for the chemistry people out there.. Whaddya, think? All my best, HH --- On Mon, 3/1/10, g. bunnie wrote: > From: g. bunnie > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction Tek > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 11:24 PM > i have got at least 7 copies at this > time, so at least it for sure got > out there :-) > yahoo is slow with shiznit sometimes, realllly slow. like i > send to it > from gmail and its not there 9 hours later slow. > the list is slow sometimes too, but a hour lagtime or > something, not > days off in space. > if its happening a lot, try getting a account on gmail. yeh > you have > no privacy from google but its makes a sweet list reading > account, > threads it makes it easy to find. its really nice. > > this is to Helpful Hopeful I mean, replying to the message > not Patrick > making sure it got resent. > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Patrick K. Kroupa > wrote: > > Entire message, reposted. > > > > We are working on a lot of stuff at the back-end, I'm > not sure why 3 or 4 versions of what HH sent went through, > but not the final one. ?But here it is. > > > > Patrick > > > > ... > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > >> From: Helpful Hopeful > >> Date: February 28, 2010 10:52:54 PM EST > >> To: "Patrick K. Kroupa" > >> Subject: Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction Tek > >> > >> I have posted the whole extraction a couple times, > but I will add it in it's entirety again, with some added > notes on purification from an old email from Howard Lotsof > ?at the end. > >> > >> It also contains even better measurements than the > original tek I posted, when it comes to using the acetone > and hydrochloric (aka muriatic) acid. > >> > >> The extra purity for pure ibogaine HCl, may need a > couple more supplies, but IMHO, is not needed, unless > someone just really wants to be sure and use 98%+ pure > ibogaine HCl. > >> > >> So here it is again: > >> > >> Okay, new UPDATED tek with added tips: > >> > >> The Extraction: > >> > >> What you need: Plain white distilled vinegar, a > stainless steel, ceramic, HDPE 2, or non-reactive container, > janitorial strength (10%+) non-sudsy ammonia, distilled > water, a funnel, coffee filters, old t-shirt, and the iboga > bark. > >> > >> A clear, non-reactive container for performing the > extraction helps a lot, when watching the reactions, BTW. > >> > >> Optional for added purity: Acetone, muriatic acid > (28-36% HCl), and Everclear ?(95% pure ethanol), (maybe > anhydrous epsom salts aka magnesium sulfate or anhydrous > calcium sulfate, which is not 100% necessary). > >> > >> 1: Take the bark, and make sure it's as fine of a > powder as possible. > >> > >> 2: Add enough vinegar to thoroughly cover the > bark. A good measurement for the vinegar is about 5 times > the amount (volume) of vinegar to the weight of bark. > >> > >> In this instance 40g of bark times 5 would be > about 200 mls of vinegar per soak. One may need slightly > more in the first couple extractions to thoroughly cover the > bark, and excess can be used safely, however it will > lengthen the time of filtering later, so try and keep the > volumes minimal. > >> > >> 3: The bark can be stirred occasionally, and left > to sit for at least one hour. > >> > >> Adding heat makes the bark harder to filter, and > isn't necessary. > >> > >> 4: After an hour has passed, one needs to filter > the bark from the vinegar with a cloth t-shirt. Squeeze out > the bark to gather all the vinegar and save this. > >> > >> The bark is then returned to the container for > another soak. This should be done 4 times to be sure to get > out all the alkaloids. (One can taste the bark when dried to > see if any bitterness remains, however, after 4 soaks, it > seemed to remove nearly all the bitterness from the bark for > me.) > >> > >> 5: While letting the bark soak again, as in the > previous steps, filter the collected vinegar through coffee > filters. > >> > >> This can take a long time to filter, since the > coffee filters clog easily, and may need to be replaced > often. Have patience though. If you can leave it sitting in > the funnel, with a filter, the juice will eventually pass > through. This extra filtering isn't 100% necessary but it > will help remove all the finest plant particles from the > solution, so the initial extraction will come out cleaner, > so it's a good idea, IMO. > >> > >> 6: Once all the vinegar has been collected and > filtered through a coffee filter, you have two options. > >> > >> The first would be to evaporate the vinegar a bit, > by using low heat and a fan. Under boiling (do not boil!) is > fine to reduce the vinegar, and will make it easier to deal > with less liquid. A fan blowing over a heater vent worked > well for me. You don't want to evaporate it to thickness, > though, just enough to make it easy to work with in a > smaller container. > >> > >> The second option is to skip the evaporation and > proceed directly to the next step, which can save time. > >> > >> 7: Once you have all your vinegar collected, and > evaporated a good bit, if you choose, you are ready to add > the ammonia. You can slowly pour ammonia into the vinegar, > to make it basic. pH ?papers/pens aren't needed, but if > used, just make sure the pH ?is above 10.1. Ibogaine's pKa > is 8.1. (from sources on the internet) > >> > >> As you add the ammonia, the solution will heat > slightly, and you will see cloudy precipitate forming. You > can add more ammonia, to be sure, as too much won't hurt, it > will just add to the amount of solution that needs to be > filtered, which can take awhile. > >> > >> 8: Now, if left to settle (can take a few hours), > the precipitate (freebase total alkaloids) will sink to the > bottom of the container. The majority of the clear solution > at the top can be siphoned off, and filtered to be sure no > precipitate is in it. > >> > >> If it looks clear (tea colored, still), not cloudy > though, all the precipitate should have sunken to the > bottom. By removing a large portion of the upper clear (tea > colored) water, this will allow you to have much less > solution to filter out your alkaloids. > >> > >> You can save everything you siphoned off and add > more ammonia later, to be sure you got out all the freebase > alkaloids, but it didn't seem to make any difference for > me. > >> > >> 9: Now you can filter the muddy, alkaloid > containing solution through coffee filters. > >> > >> Filtering this can take a good bit as the > precipitate begins to clog the filter, but again, be > patient, as the solution will eventually pass through the > filter completely. This may take overnight, so don't worry > if it takes a long time. Once you have filtered the > solution, you can set aside the clear tea colored water for > later, to add more ammonia, just to be sure you collected > all the precipitate. > >> > >> 10: You should now have a coffee filter with all > the brown freebase precipitate stuck to it. You should then > add a liberal amount of distilled water to the filter in the > funnel. You will THOROUGHLY rinse the precipitate with the > distilled water to wash away any extra impurities (ammonium > acetate). > >> > >> Again, waiting for the water to pass through the > alkaloid coated coffee filter may take awhile, so just have > patience. > >> > >> 11: This precipitate can then be placed in front > of a fan with a warm air current, away from UV light, and > left to dry. > >> > >> This is now your crude (estimated from Chris' > notes at 40-50% pure) freebase total alkaloid extract. This > can be capped when dry and used as is, and should be much > cleaner than the simple vinegar extraction. However, for > those that want it more pure, there are two options. > >> > >> First option: > >> > >> 1: Take the filter with the dried crusty > precipitate and break up the precipitate to a fine powder. > You can use the same filter, or take a new one and place it > in a funnel that is plugged (I use a two liter bottle with > the bottom cut off for a funnel, so capping the opening can > seal it, but a finger may be used). Add the crushed > precipitate to the plugged funnel and saturate it with > vinegar to dissolve as much as possible. > >> > >> 2: Let the vinegar sit in the filter with the > precipitate, maybe stir it around a bit in the filter, then > let it drain through, and save the vinegar. > >> > >> Be careful not to poke a hole in the filter while > stirring/agitating. > >> > >> 3: You can repeat with fresh vinegar another time, > and collect all the vinegar. > >> > >> 4: Add ammonia to the vinegar again, to > precipitate the alkaloids, which should be even cleaner this > time. > >> > >> 5: Re-filter out all the alkaloids, rinse > thoroughly with distilled water, and let dry as above. > >> > >> This can now be used as is and should be even > cleaner. > >> > >> > >> Second (more involved) option, for much more pure > TA: > >> > >> Okay so you have your brown precipitate in your > coffee filter, now dried up, from the first portion of the > extraction. > >> > >> 1: You now, take your acetone and add 15-18 mls of > acetone per gram of freebase TA extract (brown freebase > powder), and soak freebase in the filter with it. You can > stir around the precipitate in the filter (again be careful > not to poke a hole in it), and wash it two or three times > with the SAME acetone. Do not go over 18 mls per gram of > brown TA freebase, but be sure to soak as much color from > the solid as possible. The filter should contain any bark > crud, and any other impurities, when finished. > >> > >> This will remove the alkaloids from the solid > filtrand (insoluble plant gunk that's left in the filter), > since the freebase is soluble in acetone. Chris Jenks says > about 50-60% of the crud is left behind as insoluble plant > material. > >> > >> 2: Take your muriatic acid (hydrogen chloride in a > water solution, aka hydrochloric acid in solution), and add > it very slowly, to the acetone. You must do this drop wise, > and watch as the precipitate forms. (One milliliter for each > six grams of TA) is added in small portions, slowly, until > the precipitation of the solid begins. > >> > >> If you own a pH tester, when the acetone is at pH > ?6.1, 99% of the ibogaine should be converted to the HCl > salt form, and precipitate out, or be caught in the tiny > amount of water that the HCl is mixed with (with 1 ml of > muriatic acid, the water is negligible). This can be > filtered out, and the tiny bit of water separated, and left > to evaporate to be sure to recover all the iboga alkaloid > HCl salts (wasn't necessary for me). > >> > >> Adding too much acid with water can start to > redissolve the iboga TA HCl. You can add a few drops at a > time, and watch as the precipitate forms. When it stops > forming, you can place this into the fridge, to chill for a > few hours (overnight may be better), before filtering, and > this will increase the yield. > >> > >> 3: Filter out the iboga PTA HCl. > >> > >> This is nearly pure TA HCl, but there may be a bit > left in the acetone, and other residual alkaloids will also > be in the acetone. > >> > >> You can evaporate some of the acetone with a fan > and low heat (no flames please), then remove any acidic > water from the acetone, and let it evaporate to collect > anything there. (Drying the acetone with anhydrous epsom > salts, aka magnesium sulfate, or anhydrous calcium sulfate, > then filtering them out by pouring the acetone through a > coffee filter can be done instead of separating and > evaporating any extra water but doesn't increase the yield > much, according to Chris.) > >> > >> Then treat the reduced (possibly dried) acetone > with the muriatic acid again (a drop or two), and harvest > any more crystals of iboga PTA HCl that precipitates. Filter > it out as well and add it to the first precipitate. > >> > >> Another option would be to gas HCl acid though the > acetone to precipitate the iboga PTA HCl crystals, but this > can be covered later, if anyone is really interested. I > haven't tried this with ibogaine HCl, but am pretty sure > it'd work fine, although it is more difficult and requires a > few more supplies. > >> > >> 4: (Optional and only needed if going for pure > ibogaine HCl) If you would like pure ibogaine HCl, without > the other alkaloids, you can take the iboga TA HCl crystals, > and dissolve it in boiling ethanol. > >> > >> The boiling ethanol should be added drop wise, > just until all the ibogaine HCl has dissolved. > >> > >> 5: This ethanol solution is then left to cool in > the fridge and the ibogaine will recrystallize. > >> > >> This will make the ibogaine HCl form much more > pure crystals and can remove some of the ibogamine/ibogaline > if still present in the precipitate. > >> > >> It is not necessary unless going for 98%+ purity, > and repeated recrystallization can yield very pure ibogaine > HCl, but can cost a bit of yield. The ibogaline and > ibogamine have very similar action as ibogaine and may also > provide similar effects, so are fine for using for a > session. > >> > >> (There are more added notes below for those > chemistry nuts that want PURE ibogaine HCl.) > >> > >> When this is dry, it is ready to take. > >> > >> 6: (Optional, for those who would like the PTAA) > For those who want to recover all the alkaloids, so they can > take a complete total alkaloid extract (or Purified Total > Active Alkaloid extract, aka PTAA) of high purity, they > should take the acetone that they salted/precipitated out > the ibogaine HCl, and evaporate it in front of a fan with > warm air current. > >> > >> The resulting leftover alkaloids will be an > unstable oil. > >> > >> 7: Dissolve this oil in distilled water. > >> > >> 8: Add ammonia to this water with the oil > dissolved into it. > >> > >> You will again see the freebase residual alkaloids > precipitate out of the water/ammonia solution. > >> > >> 9: Filter out the freebase alkaloids, and rinse > again thoroughly with distilled water. > >> > >> 10: Let the freebase residual alkaloids dry > completely. > >> > >> You can then add your freebase residual alkaloids > to your PTA HCls, and capsulize it. Freebases will be > converted to the HCl salts in your stomach, so turning them > into the HCl salt before ingesting is probably unnecessary. > >> > >> This Purified Total Alkaloid extract, or PTA, > should be considered very pure, and a 15-20 mg/kg dose of > this (mainly for addiction treatment at this level) is just > as powerful, if not more so, as the pure ibogaine HCl, so > estimate your dosage with this extract accordingly. This is > powerful medicine and going higher than 25 mg/kg could cause > complications, so don't be a hero. This also lasts in the > system for months, so it's recommended not to take another > flood dose within 60-90 days minimum, to be safe. > >> > >> This is optional and has not been tried by myself, > so if Chris or anyone out there thinks there are any > updates, more details, or improvements, please feel free to > add them, as the final purification to pure ibogaine HCl, > was not my goal, just a much more pure TAA. > >> > >> Further purification notes, for those wanting pure > ibogaine HCl, without the added alkaloids, from here: http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/032899.html > >> > >> Purification of ibogaine from the total > alkaloids. > >> > >> The total alkaloids from the extraction step is > dissolved in ethyl acetate > >> (minimum) and treated with norite (measurements > anyone?), filtered and evaporated to dryness. The residue is > dissolved in hot ethanol. After chilling for two or three > days, the crude ibogaine is filtered and the filtrate is > evaporated to half volume, chilled for one day and a second > crop of ibogaine is collected. > >> > >> The crude ibogaine is recrystallized from ethanol. > This product is dissolved in toluene and filtered through > three times its weight of neutral alumina (activity 1), and > the column washed with toluene. Evaporation of the solvent > crystallization of the residue from ethanol yields a pure > sample of ibogaine. > >> > >> Ibogaine hydrochloride > >> > >> To a stirred solution of ibogaine in minimum > acetone is added aqueous HCl > >> (1:1) dropwise (excess). The crystalline ibogaine > hydrochloride separates > >> immediately. The product is filtered and washed > with acetone. It is > >> recrystallized from ethanol yielding a white > salt. > >> > >> Extra tips: > >> > >> Norite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norite > >> > >> Ethyl Acetate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate > >> > >> Also, this further purification requires a > chromatography column, neutral alumina to pack the column, > and toluene, so it may be a bit more difficult for the > kitchen chemist without the proper tools.. It also lacks > measurements, and details, so I'd need to play around to > find them myself. > >> > >> Honestly, the added purification is not really > needed, especially if one only wants a Purified TA or PTAA. > It is only necessary if 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl is desired. > >> > >> BTW, freebase TA is total alkaloids (actually the > ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine and residual alkaloids), PTA > is purified total alkaloids (ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine > in HCl salts), PTAA is purified total active alkaloids (all > active alkaloids from tabernanthe iboga including, but not > limited to, ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine, tabernanthine, > (?), in HCl salt and freebase mix). > >> > >> Hope this has everything anyone needs, but I can > help out if anyone has any questions, up to the further > purification, as I don't have a chromatography column, and > didn't have enough bark to waste any of the extra alkaloids > from the root bark. > >> > >> I haven't tried to extract pure ibogaine HCl since > the PTA/PTAA that comes out, looks plenty clean, removes all > the plant material, makes the dosage easy to calculate, and > may be easier on sensitive stomachs, although nausea is > still common with even the pure alkaloids. > >> > >> I have read that the pure ibogaine HCl is even > more gentle on the stomach, but haven't had the experience > myself, so I can't give a personal account. > >> > >> If any experts out there have any critiques for > the updated tek, please feel free to add whatever you can. > Big thanks to Chris Jenks!! Also, thanks to panoramix over > at the DMT-Nexus.com for helping add some measurements for > the purification. > >> > >> I've tried to make this as clear and detailed as > possible, and watching Chris' presentation from the ibogaine > conference can help with pictures, for those who are visual > learners.. > >> > >> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4730969 > (This one has the extraction by Chris Jenks, with pictures > and his description. He starts 1:00:00 in, but plenty of > good info before hand.) > >> > >> Best of luck to everyone, and please use this with > utmost respect and responsibility, as we don't need to lose > ANYONE (else) with this medicine! > >> > >> Okay, that is the final draft as of now. I hope > that incorporates any of the things that Chris brought up, > and I hope it is more clear in each step with better > terminology. > >> > >> I will explain later how to make a little > contraption to bubble HCl gas through the acetone to > precipitate the iboga alkaloid HCl's without having any > water, which might improve purity and yield from the start, > but this will be when I can get around to finding more time > to type it up in a decent manner. > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> PS. Also, in a side note from another email to the > list from Chris he adds, quote: > >> > >> I took a portion of the acetone that would have > been used in the extraction of the TA and added the proper > amount of HCl solution to it (determined by previous runs) > and then dried the solution with anhydrous calcium sulfate. > The dried solution of HCl in acetone was then used to > acidify the acetone extract of TA. The yield was 38% of PTA > HCl from TA, compared with an average yield of 37% for the > previous nine runs, so there was no significant improvement > by removing the water. > >> > >> Also, if you are trying to make TAA, you shouldn't > have to be so careful with the measurements of acetone and > HCl, as long as you use enough acetone to extract the TA > completely, and enough HCl to acidify the extract. Instead > of filtering out the PTA HCl you could just evaporate the > acetone and continue as usual in making RA, which is this > case would give homogeneous TAA base. > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Hope this helps! > >> > >> HH > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: > ?[%][) > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 04:45:10 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 01:45:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction Tek (another idea?) In-Reply-To: <180257.7480.qm@web55905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <145803.97027.qm@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I guess if all the actives are alkaloids, then pH 5 should be plenty low enough to salt them.... --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > From: Helpful Hopeful > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction Tek (another idea?) > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 12:16 AM > Yeah, I got an email from the 24th I > think today..? Sorry for sending so many but this one > that Patrick sent is the most updated, detailed, and best > explained, I think.? I still would like to play around > with it more and see what else I could figure out, but the > bark is expensive, so I may have to wait awhile. > > I was just thinking (which is what happens, when > replying/sending, so I make edits and add more stuff, lol) > that maybe the added oily freebase alkaloids, that won't > precipitate from the acetone could be dissolved in some > vinegar or some vinegar and water, then evaporated to make > acetic acid salts (although these are probably gonna be > hygroscopic, if that works).? One could try carbonic > acid, citric acid, fumaric acid, tartaric acid, whatever one > has access too, and see if any of those work to salt out > those added alkaloids.? > > Could just take some of that freebase oil, split it up > evenly each in a separate small amount of distilled water, > then add each acid (pH maybe 4 or even lower(?) in case any > have real low pKa's) and evaporate the water.? Maybe > one of the conentrated acids could be used to salt them from > the acetone even.? See if any of them form crystals or > a nice solid.? > > I'd give it a shot if the bark wasn't so expensive, but for > anyone thinking about extracting kilos, it might make an > even better, full alkaloid TA, in which all the alkaloids > are more stable, and very pure, with all the active > alkaloids of iboga present, and in a salt form.? > Wouldn't that be awesome?? There are a lot of different > acids one could try.? ? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > My reasoning: > > Trichocereus bridgesii is Achuma cactus, with the most > extra alkaloids of any Trichocereus (just under peyote aka > Lophphora williamsi). > > When extracting Trichocereus bridgesii, made basic with > calcium hydroxide (plus a tiny bit of water to make it a > paste), with d-limonene (orange oil and NP solvent), one > first extracts the paste with the d-limonene and filters it > out, then uses acetic acid to pull out the mescaline, then > can use some carbonic and citric acid mix, all of which you > can find in the grocery store, to pull out the added > alkaloids, it makes a TA achuma or bridgesii extract.? > > > This has many more effects, including two mild MAOIs > contained in the cactus, which intensify the effects of the > mescaline.? By making the TA, you get much more of the > full alkaloid profile of the cactus making it a more > powerful, slightly different experience.? > > Some people prefer pure mescaline HCl, while some prefer > the full alkaloid profile of the bridgesii (just like our > iboganaut friends!).? Either person can be happy by > either extracting and recrystallizing the mescaline HCl one > way, or they can use another way with several different > acids to make an extract of the various alkaloid salts of > the cactus. > > Some acids form nice crystals of each type of alkaloid, > just got to figure out which one works with each alkaloid.. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Just another thought for the chemistry people out there.. > > Whaddya, think? > > All my best, > > HH > > --- On Mon, 3/1/10, g. bunnie > wrote: > > > From: g. bunnie > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl > Extraction Tek > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 11:24 PM > > i have got at least 7 copies at this > > time, so at least it for sure got > > out there :-) > > yahoo is slow with shiznit sometimes, realllly slow. > like i > > send to it > > from gmail and its not there 9 hours later slow. > > the list is slow sometimes too, but a hour lagtime or > > something, not > > days off in space. > > if its happening a lot, try getting a account on > gmail. yeh > > you have > > no privacy from google but its makes a sweet list > reading > > account, > > threads it makes it easy to find. its really nice. > > > > this is to Helpful Hopeful I mean, replying to the > message > > not Patrick > > making sure it got resent. > > > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Patrick K. Kroupa > > > wrote: > > > Entire message, reposted. > > > > > > We are working on a lot of stuff at the back-end, > I'm > > not sure why 3 or 4 versions of what HH sent went > through, > > but not the final one. ?But here it is. > > > > > > Patrick > > > > > > ... > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > > >> From: Helpful Hopeful > > >> Date: February 28, 2010 10:52:54 PM EST > > >> To: "Patrick K. Kroupa" > > >> Subject: Updated Ibogaine TA/HCl Extraction > Tek > > >> > > >> I have posted the whole extraction a couple > times, > > but I will add it in it's entirety again, with some > added > > notes on purification from an old email from Howard > Lotsof > > ?at the end. > > >> > > >> It also contains even better measurements > than the > > original tek I posted, when it comes to using the > acetone > > and hydrochloric (aka muriatic) acid. > > >> > > >> The extra purity for pure ibogaine HCl, may > need a > > couple more supplies, but IMHO, is not needed, unless > > someone just really wants to be sure and use 98%+ > pure > > ibogaine HCl. > > >> > > >> So here it is again: > > >> > > >> Okay, new UPDATED tek with added tips: > > >> > > >> The Extraction: > > >> > > >> What you need: Plain white distilled vinegar, > a > > stainless steel, ceramic, HDPE 2, or non-reactive > container, > > janitorial strength (10%+) non-sudsy ammonia, > distilled > > water, a funnel, coffee filters, old t-shirt, and the > iboga > > bark. > > >> > > >> A clear, non-reactive container for > performing the > > extraction helps a lot, when watching the reactions, > BTW. > > >> > > >> Optional for added purity: Acetone, muriatic > acid > > (28-36% HCl), and Everclear ?(95% pure ethanol), > (maybe > > anhydrous epsom salts aka magnesium sulfate or > anhydrous > > calcium sulfate, which is not 100% necessary). > > >> > > >> 1: Take the bark, and make sure it's as fine > of a > > powder as possible. > > >> > > >> 2: Add enough vinegar to thoroughly cover > the > > bark. A good measurement for the vinegar is about 5 > times > > the amount (volume) of vinegar to the weight of bark. > > >> > > >> In this instance 40g of bark times 5 would > be > > about 200 mls of vinegar per soak. One may need > slightly > > more in the first couple extractions to thoroughly > cover the > > bark, and excess can be used safely, however it will > > lengthen the time of filtering later, so try and keep > the > > volumes minimal. > > >> > > >> 3: The bark can be stirred occasionally, and > left > > to sit for at least one hour. > > >> > > >> Adding heat makes the bark harder to filter, > and > > isn't necessary. > > >> > > >> 4: After an hour has passed, one needs to > filter > > the bark from the vinegar with a cloth t-shirt. > Squeeze out > > the bark to gather all the vinegar and save this. > > >> > > >> The bark is then returned to the container > for > > another soak. This should be done 4 times to be sure > to get > > out all the alkaloids. (One can taste the bark when > dried to > > see if any bitterness remains, however, after 4 soaks, > it > > seemed to remove nearly all the bitterness from the > bark for > > me.) > > >> > > >> 5: While letting the bark soak again, as in > the > > previous steps, filter the collected vinegar through > coffee > > filters. > > >> > > >> This can take a long time to filter, since > the > > coffee filters clog easily, and may need to be > replaced > > often. Have patience though. If you can leave it > sitting in > > the funnel, with a filter, the juice will eventually > pass > > through. This extra filtering isn't 100% necessary but > it > > will help remove all the finest plant particles from > the > > solution, so the initial extraction will come out > cleaner, > > so it's a good idea, IMO. > > >> > > >> 6: Once all the vinegar has been collected > and > > filtered through a coffee filter, you have two > options. > > >> > > >> The first would be to evaporate the vinegar a > bit, > > by using low heat and a fan. Under boiling (do not > boil!) is > > fine to reduce the vinegar, and will make it easier to > deal > > with less liquid. A fan blowing over a heater vent > worked > > well for me. You don't want to evaporate it to > thickness, > > though, just enough to make it easy to work with in a > > smaller container. > > >> > > >> The second option is to skip the evaporation > and > > proceed directly to the next step, which can save > time. > > >> > > >> 7: Once you have all your vinegar collected, > and > > evaporated a good bit, if you choose, you are ready to > add > > the ammonia. You can slowly pour ammonia into the > vinegar, > > to make it basic. pH ?papers/pens aren't needed, but > if > > used, just make sure the pH ?is above 10.1. > Ibogaine's pKa > > is 8.1. (from sources on the internet) > > >> > > >> As you add the ammonia, the solution will > heat > > slightly, and you will see cloudy precipitate forming. > You > > can add more ammonia, to be sure, as too much won't > hurt, it > > will just add to the amount of solution that needs to > be > > filtered, which can take awhile. > > >> > > >> 8: Now, if left to settle (can take a few > hours), > > the precipitate (freebase total alkaloids) will sink > to the > > bottom of the container. The majority of the clear > solution > > at the top can be siphoned off, and filtered to be > sure no > > precipitate is in it. > > >> > > >> If it looks clear (tea colored, still), not > cloudy > > though, all the precipitate should have sunken to the > > bottom. By removing a large portion of the upper clear > (tea > > colored) water, this will allow you to have much less > > solution to filter out your alkaloids. > > >> > > >> You can save everything you siphoned off and > add > > more ammonia later, to be sure you got out all the > freebase > > alkaloids, but it didn't seem to make any difference > for > > me. > > >> > > >> 9: Now you can filter the muddy, alkaloid > > containing solution through coffee filters. > > >> > > >> Filtering this can take a good bit as the > > precipitate begins to clog the filter, but again, be > > patient, as the solution will eventually pass through > the > > filter completely. This may take overnight, so don't > worry > > if it takes a long time. Once you have filtered the > > solution, you can set aside the clear tea colored > water for > > later, to add more ammonia, just to be sure you > collected > > all the precipitate. > > >> > > >> 10: You should now have a coffee filter with > all > > the brown freebase precipitate stuck to it. You should > then > > add a liberal amount of distilled water to the filter > in the > > funnel. You will THOROUGHLY rinse the precipitate with > the > > distilled water to wash away any extra impurities > (ammonium > > acetate). > > >> > > >> Again, waiting for the water to pass through > the > > alkaloid coated coffee filter may take awhile, so just > have > > patience. > > >> > > >> 11: This precipitate can then be placed in > front > > of a fan with a warm air current, away from UV light, > and > > left to dry. > > >> > > >> This is now your crude (estimated from > Chris' > > notes at 40-50% pure) freebase total alkaloid extract. > This > > can be capped when dry and used as is, and should be > much > > cleaner than the simple vinegar extraction. However, > for > > those that want it more pure, there are two options. > > >> > > >> First option: > > >> > > >> 1: Take the filter with the dried crusty > > precipitate and break up the precipitate to a fine > powder. > > You can use the same filter, or take a new one and > place it > > in a funnel that is plugged (I use a two liter bottle > with > > the bottom cut off for a funnel, so capping the > opening can > > seal it, but a finger may be used). Add the crushed > > precipitate to the plugged funnel and saturate it > with > > vinegar to dissolve as much as possible. > > >> > > >> 2: Let the vinegar sit in the filter with > the > > precipitate, maybe stir it around a bit in the filter, > then > > let it drain through, and save the vinegar. > > >> > > >> Be careful not to poke a hole in the filter > while > > stirring/agitating. > > >> > > >> 3: You can repeat with fresh vinegar another > time, > > and collect all the vinegar. > > >> > > >> 4: Add ammonia to the vinegar again, to > > precipitate the alkaloids, which should be even > cleaner this > > time. > > >> > > >> 5: Re-filter out all the alkaloids, rinse > > thoroughly with distilled water, and let dry as > above. > > >> > > >> This can now be used as is and should be > even > > cleaner. > > >> > > >> > > >> Second (more involved) option, for much more > pure > > TA: > > >> > > >> Okay so you have your brown precipitate in > your > > coffee filter, now dried up, from the first portion of > the > > extraction. > > >> > > >> 1: You now, take your acetone and add 15-18 > mls of > > acetone per gram of freebase TA extract (brown > freebase > > powder), and soak freebase in the filter with it. You > can > > stir around the precipitate in the filter (again be > careful > > not to poke a hole in it), and wash it two or three > times > > with the SAME acetone. Do not go over 18 mls per gram > of > > brown TA freebase, but be sure to soak as much color > from > > the solid as possible. The filter should contain any > bark > > crud, and any other impurities, when finished. > > >> > > >> This will remove the alkaloids from the > solid > > filtrand (insoluble plant gunk that's left in the > filter), > > since the freebase is soluble in acetone. Chris Jenks > says > > about 50-60% of the crud is left behind as insoluble > plant > > material. > > >> > > >> 2: Take your muriatic acid (hydrogen chloride > in a > > water solution, aka hydrochloric acid in solution), > and add > > it very slowly, to the acetone. You must do this drop > wise, > > and watch as the precipitate forms. (One milliliter > for each > > six grams of TA) is added in small portions, slowly, > until > > the precipitation of the solid begins. > > >> > > >> If you own a pH tester, when the acetone is > at pH > > ?6.1, 99% of the ibogaine should be converted to the > HCl > > salt form, and precipitate out, or be caught in the > tiny > > amount of water that the HCl is mixed with (with 1 ml > of > > muriatic acid, the water is negligible). This can be > > filtered out, and the tiny bit of water separated, and > left > > to evaporate to be sure to recover all the iboga > alkaloid > > HCl salts (wasn't necessary for me). > > >> > > >> Adding too much acid with water can start to > > redissolve the iboga TA HCl. You can add a few drops > at a > > time, and watch as the precipitate forms. When it > stops > > forming, you can place this into the fridge, to chill > for a > > few hours (overnight may be better), before filtering, > and > > this will increase the yield. > > >> > > >> 3: Filter out the iboga PTA HCl. > > >> > > >> This is nearly pure TA HCl, but there may be > a bit > > left in the acetone, and other residual alkaloids will > also > > be in the acetone. > > >> > > >> You can evaporate some of the acetone with a > fan > > and low heat (no flames please), then remove any > acidic > > water from the acetone, and let it evaporate to > collect > > anything there. (Drying the acetone with anhydrous > epsom > > salts, aka magnesium sulfate, or anhydrous calcium > sulfate, > > then filtering them out by pouring the acetone through > a > > coffee filter can be done instead of separating and > > evaporating any extra water but doesn't increase the > yield > > much, according to Chris.) > > >> > > >> Then treat the reduced (possibly dried) > acetone > > with the muriatic acid again (a drop or two), and > harvest > > any more crystals of iboga PTA HCl that precipitates. > Filter > > it out as well and add it to the first precipitate. > > >> > > >> Another option would be to gas HCl acid > though the > > acetone to precipitate the iboga PTA HCl crystals, but > this > > can be covered later, if anyone is really interested. > I > > haven't tried this with ibogaine HCl, but am pretty > sure > > it'd work fine, although it is more difficult and > requires a > > few more supplies. > > >> > > >> 4: (Optional and only needed if going for > pure > > ibogaine HCl) If you would like pure ibogaine HCl, > without > > the other alkaloids, you can take the iboga TA HCl > crystals, > > and dissolve it in boiling ethanol. > > >> > > >> The boiling ethanol should be added drop > wise, > > just until all the ibogaine HCl has dissolved. > > >> > > >> 5: This ethanol solution is then left to cool > in > > the fridge and the ibogaine will recrystallize. > > >> > > >> This will make the ibogaine HCl form much > more > > pure crystals and can remove some of the > ibogamine/ibogaline > > if still present in the precipitate. > > >> > > >> It is not necessary unless going for 98%+ > purity, > > and repeated recrystallization can yield very pure > ibogaine > > HCl, but can cost a bit of yield. The ibogaline and > > ibogamine have very similar action as ibogaine and may > also > > provide similar effects, so are fine for using for a > > session. > > >> > > >> (There are more added notes below for those > > chemistry nuts that want PURE ibogaine HCl.) > > >> > > >> When this is dry, it is ready to take. > > >> > > >> 6: (Optional, for those who would like the > PTAA) > > For those who want to recover all the alkaloids, so > they can > > take a complete total alkaloid extract (or Purified > Total > > Active Alkaloid extract, aka PTAA) of high purity, > they > > should take the acetone that they salted/precipitated > out > > the ibogaine HCl, and evaporate it in front of a fan > with > > warm air current. > > >> > > >> The resulting leftover alkaloids will be an > > unstable oil. > > >> > > >> 7: Dissolve this oil in distilled water. > > >> > > >> 8: Add ammonia to this water with the oil > > dissolved into it. > > >> > > >> You will again see the freebase residual > alkaloids > > precipitate out of the water/ammonia solution. > > >> > > >> 9: Filter out the freebase alkaloids, and > rinse > > again thoroughly with distilled water. > > >> > > >> 10: Let the freebase residual alkaloids dry > > completely. > > >> > > >> You can then add your freebase residual > alkaloids > > to your PTA HCls, and capsulize it. Freebases will be > > converted to the HCl salts in your stomach, so turning > them > > into the HCl salt before ingesting is probably > unnecessary. > > >> > > >> This Purified Total Alkaloid extract, or > PTA, > > should be considered very pure, and a 15-20 mg/kg dose > of > > this (mainly for addiction treatment at this level) is > just > > as powerful, if not more so, as the pure ibogaine HCl, > so > > estimate your dosage with this extract accordingly. > This is > > powerful medicine and going higher than 25 mg/kg could > cause > > complications, so don't be a hero. This also lasts in > the > > system for months, so it's recommended not to take > another > > flood dose within 60-90 days minimum, to be safe. > > >> > > >> This is optional and has not been tried by > myself, > > so if Chris or anyone out there thinks there are any > > updates, more details, or improvements, please feel > free to > > add them, as the final purification to pure ibogaine > HCl, > > was not my goal, just a much more pure TAA. > > >> > > >> Further purification notes, for those wanting > pure > > ibogaine HCl, without the added alkaloids, from here: > http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/032899.html > > >> > > >> Purification of ibogaine from the total > > alkaloids. > > >> > > >> The total alkaloids from the extraction step > is > > dissolved in ethyl acetate > > >> (minimum) and treated with norite > (measurements > > anyone?), filtered and evaporated to dryness. The > residue is > > dissolved in hot ethanol. After chilling for two or > three > > days, the crude ibogaine is filtered and the filtrate > is > > evaporated to half volume, chilled for one day and a > second > > crop of ibogaine is collected. > > >> > > >> The crude ibogaine is recrystallized from > ethanol. > > This product is dissolved in toluene and filtered > through > > three times its weight of neutral alumina (activity > 1), and > > the column washed with toluene. Evaporation of the > solvent > > crystallization of the residue from ethanol yields a > pure > > sample of ibogaine. > > >> > > >> Ibogaine hydrochloride > > >> > > >> To a stirred solution of ibogaine in minimum > > acetone is added aqueous HCl > > >> (1:1) dropwise (excess). The crystalline > ibogaine > > hydrochloride separates > > >> immediately. The product is filtered and > washed > > with acetone. It is > > >> recrystallized from ethanol yielding a white > > salt. > > >> > > >> Extra tips: > > >> > > >> Norite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norite > > >> > > >> Ethyl Acetate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate > > >> > > >> Also, this further purification requires a > > chromatography column, neutral alumina to pack the > column, > > and toluene, so it may be a bit more difficult for > the > > kitchen chemist without the proper tools.. It also > lacks > > measurements, and details, so I'd need to play around > to > > find them myself. > > >> > > >> Honestly, the added purification is not > really > > needed, especially if one only wants a Purified TA or > PTAA. > > It is only necessary if 98%+ pure ibogaine HCl is > desired. > > >> > > >> BTW, freebase TA is total alkaloids (actually > the > > ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine and residual > alkaloids), PTA > > is purified total alkaloids (ibogaine, ibogaline, > ibogamine > > in HCl salts), PTAA is purified total active alkaloids > (all > > active alkaloids from tabernanthe iboga including, but > not > > limited to, ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine, > tabernanthine, > > (?), in HCl salt and freebase mix). > > >> > > >> Hope this has everything anyone needs, but I > can > > help out if anyone has any questions, up to the > further > > purification, as I don't have a chromatography column, > and > > didn't have enough bark to waste any of the extra > alkaloids > > from the root bark. > > >> > > >> I haven't tried to extract pure ibogaine HCl > since > > the PTA/PTAA that comes out, looks plenty clean, > removes all > > the plant material, makes the dosage easy to > calculate, and > > may be easier on sensitive stomachs, although nausea > is > > still common with even the pure alkaloids. > > >> > > >> I have read that the pure ibogaine HCl is > even > > more gentle on the stomach, but haven't had the > experience > > myself, so I can't give a personal account. > > >> > > >> If any experts out there have any critiques > for > > the updated tek, please feel free to add whatever you > can. > > Big thanks to Chris Jenks!! Also, thanks to panoramix > over > > at the DMT-Nexus.com for helping add some measurements > for > > the purification. > > >> > > >> I've tried to make this as clear and detailed > as > > possible, and watching Chris' presentation from the > ibogaine > > conference can help with pictures, for those who are > visual > > learners.. > > >> > > >> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4730969 > > (This one has the extraction by Chris Jenks, with > pictures > > and his description. He starts 1:00:00 in, but plenty > of > > good info before hand.) > > >> > > >> Best of luck to everyone, and please use this > with > > utmost respect and responsibility, as we don't need to > lose > > ANYONE (else) with this medicine! > > >> > > >> Okay, that is the final draft as of now. I > hope > > that incorporates any of the things that Chris brought > up, > > and I hope it is more clear in each step with better > > terminology. > > >> > > >> I will explain later how to make a little > > contraption to bubble HCl gas through the acetone to > > precipitate the iboga alkaloid HCl's without having > any > > water, which might improve purity and yield from the > start, > > but this will be when I can get around to finding more > time > > to type it up in a decent manner. > > >> > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> PS. Also, in a side note from another email > to the > > list from Chris he adds, quote: > > >> > > >> I took a portion of the acetone that would > have > > been used in the extraction of the TA and added the > proper > > amount of HCl solution to it (determined by previous > runs) > > and then dried the solution with anhydrous calcium > sulfate. > > The dried solution of HCl in acetone was then used to > > acidify the acetone extract of TA. The yield was 38% > of PTA > > HCl from TA, compared with an average yield of 37% for > the > > previous nine runs, so there was no significant > improvement > > by removing the water. > > >> > > >> Also, if you are trying to make TAA, you > shouldn't > > have to be so careful with the measurements of acetone > and > > HCl, as long as you use enough acetone to extract the > TA > > completely, and enough HCl to acidify the extract. > Instead > > of filtering out the PTA HCl you could just evaporate > the > > acetone and continue as usual in making RA, which is > this > > case would give homogeneous TAA base. > > >> > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> Hope this helps! > > >> > > >> HH > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List > Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: > > ?[%][) > > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: > [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > > [%][) > > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > ? ? ? > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From xxmikkixx at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 08:47:06 2010 From: xxmikkixx at gmail.com (Mikki Lynne) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 08:47:06 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) Message-ID: <92284CB2-9847-4357-A7D7-EE8CEF9AA07F@gmail.com> Thanks Jim, & cal. I thought I remembered hearing that UV exposure activates the vitamin D, or something to that effect (ends up I was wrong)... So thanks to you guys, I ended up on this epic google adventure of vit D. I've never seen so many interesting facts, theories, and rumors around a vitamin before. It even has its own conspiracy theory, "What the Sunscreen Industry Doesn't Want You to Know". Some people even say vitamin D deficiency is at the root of cancer. A lot of you are much more tuned in to this nutritional stuff than I am, and this is off topic so I won't repeat everything I read. But for those of you who don't know much about it, it's definately worth looking into. Basically, we're not getting enough sunlight, we're not getting enough vit D, this deficiency has been shown to be present in many cases of depression, cancer, some psychoses, etc. And the farther away from the equator & the darker our skin tone, the more exposure we need. [Insert disclaimer here] On Mar 1, 2010, at 6:55 PM, cal que wrote: > Wow Jim! I have never considered a vitamin D deficiency to have > these effects but after seeing your post it makes to me...SAD is a > real bitch, I get it every year almost like clockwork in Feb and > march...it's uncanny. I see where people go to a tanning salon to > get down on some phototherapy, but I always thought that was to > treat it psychosomatic-ally. It seems our skin produces vitamin D as > a result of exposure to UV/A. > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Jim Hadey wrote: > > Hi Mikki, > > A FOF went to the dr complaining of depression and > the dr checked her Vitamin D and she was at 13% of > what was normal. The dr gave her some Vit D pills and > Zoloft. If the Vitamin D was that low I would say try the > Vitamin D and if that does not help try Zoloft - but what > do I know. Just saying try Vitamin D and see if that > helps - it is common to run low during the winter and > it can cause SAD - season something depression. > It helps to take a Vitamin D with Calcium. Hope that helps. > > Best to ya, > > - JIM > > --- On Mon, 3/1/10, cal que wrote: > > From: cal que > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a > little carried away) :-) > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:48 PM > > > thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless > and it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us > feel better. Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I > am not alone, that there are others out there with the same > struggles and neuroses that I have. Not calling you neurotic lol - > or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It means you're smart enough > to be crazy ;) > > I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer > for me. SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all > throughout my younger days...most of it unnecessary. I like what > Matt said: don't give yourself too much time to think about it. Just > point to a day and say, "this is when" and begin your session as > planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the good news is you've > done this before, and with a real bastard of a drug too. I can't > imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for > six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all > in a few days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I > never want to repeat. Ever... > > It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad > you are here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne > wrote: > Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good > for us all to know at least a little background on each other- you > never know who it might end up helping out. Thank you! > > I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, > depression, waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) > due to low suboxone dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, > but think I've also hit that point where it's just prolonging the > misery. > > Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate > you, as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse > at first, and take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up > going to the tanning bed a couple times a week to help with the > depression, and found that to work pretty well too. Hate to do that, > but when it's so darn gray and dreary... > > Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with > ya! > > > On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful > wrote: > > I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in > the day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, > I think). Then the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep > in as late as possible, then wake up and take maybe a third of the > dose. That should kick in the ibo and ease a good bit of the > withdrawal, and when she gets home at around 3, I will take the > flood dose. > > This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the > whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. I > think by then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours > til she gets home.. > > I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood > providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. Worse comes to worse > I could prep an enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract > will hit me a lot faster and harder than that crappy vinegar extract > stuff I had last time.. > > I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline > acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their > stomachs. I also know that anything I have ever tried to take that > was made acidic with vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before > it kicked in. Years ago I tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's > what led me to learning how to extract various plants. The vinegar > was the worst, and other times, I couldn't get enough down for long > enough to get strong enough effects. > > So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it > does sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, > without purging, unless I dose well over a gram, at least. And even > if I do throw up, it's usually pretty well absorbed by then.. > > The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the > way down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy > daily. I flew over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been > about the time I would have been taking my dose, when I arrived. I > was starting to feel the withdrawal coming on, and she took me to > her home, and gave me a little chunk of the ibo TA. Not sure > exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, maybe a little bigger? > > Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to > ride down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some > things from the store that I'd need, etc. We went back, and then > that evening I ate my flood dose. > > I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next > thing you know it was hitting me strong. I started having full on > waking dreams, and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. That is when > I was trying to hide in my covers from some of the scary visions, > and I don't believe it was too long after that, when I started > throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for me). > > Then I threw up a lot. I would stop for a little while, then throw > up again. Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember > everything. I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little > bit. I ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many > hours. Probably just had to get all that toxic crap out of my > body. I didn't get any diarrhea, or anything, but I sure did puke > enough. > > Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's > getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard > drugs. I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get > a sweet tooth (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using > opiates again. I did pick up smoking again when I moved back around > a bunch of smokers and drinkers and drank a bit here and there. I > didn't ever develop a habit (except for the cigarettes), and anytime > I did any type of drugs I could tell when it was time to stop. > > I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would > do was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. I could watch people do > heroin, helped a real sick buddy find a vein even. Could turn down > coke, pills, anything, and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed > as I once had. After 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer > felt I really needed anything but my family and friends to be happy. > > I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I > would never get addicted to anything again. I did opiates a few > times, didn't really care for em anymore. I always hated everything > about coke but the rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, > cause I hate the coke and speed high (I like to eat and sleep, > LOL). Alcohol was only nice when I drank it regularly, and then I > didn't like the side effects, so I'd just stop and be done with it. > For years I didn't have a drink. > > I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but > I didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. Then, > one night after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly > having a few drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a > half of mescaline HCl. Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for > free even! > > Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I > saw a guy on a skateboard. I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted > to give a kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands > of times. I got on and tried, and didn't land on the board the > first time. So I tried again, and I landed it, but then I was off > balance and it shot out right from under me and I fell flat on my > back/shoulder. > > I could feel my collarbone snap. I knew it was broke, cause it > ain't the first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other > collarbone in HS. I had broken other bones, been given vicodins > before (after the iboga), or even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. > Previously, for broken bones I'd take the vicodin for a few days for > the major pain, and the bone was set and I'd just give the rest away. > > Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all > the way through, not just a hairline fracture. I went to the > hospital, and they x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave > me some ibuprofen. The ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and > doing nothing for my pain, so I went back. > > They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to > come back in week. I went back in a week, and they checked it and > basically told me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it > got too bad, they'd have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, > or whatever, so they gave me another script of vicodin and told me I > could keep coming back. > > Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and > money. And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty > acute pain. So I said screw this, they make all these synthetics > from the poppy plant, which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't > require a doctor visit, and costs around a buck a pod. For 6 > dollars a day I was pain free all day with a single dose. No eating > tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 hours. So I > used the pods until the pain started lessening. I was still having > aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, > but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had > been using them for a few months. > > I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without > seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of > pod powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every > 3-5 days, down another pod, down to a pod a day. I started weighing > them accurately, and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a > day. But I would feel sick every morning. > > Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a > little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod > powder a day. I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, > but again I reduced down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a > day, probably even less than those few grams of pods, especially > when you consider the mix of other alkaloids in em. > > So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with > goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick > yet. I usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then > chew up another pill. I never get much motivation at all, but I > ain't getting chills, goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or > anything after an hour, so I try to get all the stuff I can to try > and take care of my family. > > Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either > trying to help other people from various internet places I visit, or > talking over my problems, but it's been taking away from other > things I need to get done. Even when I get away from the computer I > can barely muster the energy to go get dressed and walk to the > store, or to do more than the bare minimum of work I can to scrape > by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much harder these > last couple years. > > I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a > change. I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last > night, and I am gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe > some light cardio to see if that will start to boost my energy. I > really have to push myself to do it, but I want to make the change. > > I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but > isn't gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. So I am > trying to get started on them now. I do think after the iboga it'll > help me see the light at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me > stop feeling like crap every single morning as soon as my eyes open, > which is a big enough relief in itself to get me to go take a nice > hot bath or shower, and fix me some decent, healthier food. > > So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit > more each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as > soon as I figure out which day my sitter is going to have off. I > don't know why I rambled on so long, but I guess since I ain't > sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I just got carried away. > > If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, > but I thank you all for listening. I know many of you out there are > caring souls, always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part > of this list. Other than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's > many of my internet friends that help keep me going every day. > > I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my > areas of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). I am > very proud to be a be a part of this list and a couple internet > places, where it seems I find more friends than I can in the daily > rat race that consumes the world around me. Much love, friends. > > Many Blessings To All!! > > HH > > > > --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S wrote: > > From: Matt S > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM > > > > > > > If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 > hours after a > heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. > After having done a > few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and > methadone, my > experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate > dose seems to > have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed > opiate free > afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you > are full on sick > in order to be safe. I am not recommending anyone try > what I did, it > probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger > or the dose > larger. My treatment for methadone was probably close > to 36 hours > after my last methadone dose and that was so successful > that it was the > final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago > now. > > > > My feeling is that you should continue to take your > morphine as you > have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the > extract that > morning as soon as you wake up. Don't give > yourself a bunch of time to > think about it or talk yourself out of it. Schedule > it in advance and > then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. > Let your sitter > know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take > enough time > to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the > lights and > bedding situated and then go for it. You won't > have time to dwell on > being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a > better idea than > ibogaine. I don't think you need a test dose > either. My understanding > of the test dose is that it is intended to test for > allergic reaction > but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an > allergic > reaction. Since you have done treatments before I > would say skip it. > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > Helpful Hopeful wrote: > > Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low > point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant > withdrawal. I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours > before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. > > I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked > in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get > higher. I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. > 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much > discomfort. But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by > now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me > discomfort and more depression. > > I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for > it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at > about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. I have some > things I really need to get done that I have been putting > off due to depression. I went ahead and took my dose of MS, > at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the > 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. > > After remembering how it went last time, with mild > withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped > contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open > in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first > dose. I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling > the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, > rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. > > Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up > the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka > morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is > probably not playing much of a role. In the prescribing > info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or > grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the > opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could > cause overdose. > > It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the > internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I > am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to > take a small test dose. This should quell my withdrawal and > then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go > ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start > feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. > > Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free > day. I don't want to be under the full influence of the > iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, > I'll be able to manage. I am planning on trying again > real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all > this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I > don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. > > I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about > to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and > advice. I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and > unmotivated. The longer I sit like this, the longer > it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to > go ahead and do it. > > NO FEAR!! :) > > HH > > > n Sat, 2/27/10, sv > wrote: > > > > From: sv > Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM > > > > > > > > Hi HH- i would suggest > that the depression you are > experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are > taking. What is your > plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness before > taking the TA? In my > experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband > had tapered to 400mg > of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was > successful. He did experience > PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS > free! > i don't think it would > work to divide your dose > into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be > that 15mg of morphine > would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal > starting or at the very > least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks > for the updated > tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a > desire to venture into > chemistry. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: > [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: > (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: > (]=- > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: > [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine" target="_blank">http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taojonze at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 12:15:46 2010 From: taojonze at gmail.com (Tao Jonze) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 09:15:46 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a1003010932i571254b5kcf3fed9b1e0b3bf3@mail.gmail.com> References: <68a68f8a1002280914i5f2db259w4351738ee1a0bced@mail.gmail.com> <610851.81978.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <68a68f8a1003010932i571254b5kcf3fed9b1e0b3bf3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <73b9de6a1003020915p50618adcyc2d62e37fcea474c@mail.gmail.com> I would recommend google voice- 1 central # that can roll forward to a list of phones of volunteers input by an admin. It can be established anonymously, and best of all- free. J On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Beverly Jackson wrote: > That's what I was thinking, Jim. > Bovenga, ideas? > > On 3/1/10, Jim Hadey wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bev, > > > > I think the cheapest way would be to get another phone > > with unlimited long distance and call forwarding. You > > could work a shift 3 -11, 11-7, 7 - 3, etc. You could > > call the person who is suppose to be on duty and tell > > them your putting the phone on forward. The next > > day the person calls you on your regular phone and > > you call the next person to double check to see if > > they are home and ready and if so set the call > > forwarding for that person. This would run maybe $25 > > to $35 a month. Now, if your on the road you can also > > make you calls to be sure the person know it it their > > shift to work and you can call and set it remotely. > > Or you can have the phone leave a recording of > > the person to call by using an answering machine. > > Keep it simple and low cost. > > > > Also, a web site listing the number may be a good idea > > but it is exposing yourself somewhat. So far no one has > > made a big deal out of detoxing people but if you put it > > on a net for that purpose it could well attract unwanted > > attention. It may be a good idea to have two phone > > numbers for sooner or later someone is going to forget > > to forward the number or that they are on duty. > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 13:51:35 2010 From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:51:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <725c35de1003011555k59bb4c3awf7d68fb5ddee7c1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <834802.31212.qm@web51306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Cal, It is something to think about and cheap to fix.? My dr said take vitamin D with calcium.? You can get a big jar with big pills that you take once or twice a day.? And they are cheap like vitamin C.? I don't know how long it takes to kick in.? They gave her a pill that she takes once a week.? So if you think if will help give it a try. Best to ya, ? - JIM --- On Mon, 3/1/10, cal que wrote: From: cal que Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 6:55 PM Wow Jim! I have never considered a vitamin D deficiency to have these effects but after seeing your post it makes to me...SAD is a real bitch, I get it every year almost like clockwork in Feb and march...it's uncanny. I see where people go to a tanning salon to get down on some phototherapy, but I always thought that was to treat it psychosomatic-ally. It seems our skin produces vitamin D as a result of exposure to UV/A. On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Jim Hadey wrote: Hi Mikki, A FOF went to the dr complaining of depression and the dr checked her Vitamin D and she was at 13% of what was normal.? The dr gave her some Vit D pills and Zoloft.? If the Vitamin D was that low I would say try the Vitamin D and if that does not help try Zoloft - but what do I know.? Just saying try Vitamin D and see if that helps - it is common to run low during the winter and it can cause SAD - season something depression. It helps to take a Vitamin D with Calcium.? Hope that helps. Best to ya, ? - JIM --- On Mon, 3/1/10, cal que wrote: From: cal que Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:48 PM thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless and it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am not alone, that there are others out there with the same struggles and neuroses that I have. Not calling you neurotic lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It means you're smart enough to be crazy ;) I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer for me. SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all throughout my younger days...most of it unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give yourself too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and say, "this is when" and begin your session as planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the good news is you've done this before, and with a real bastard of a drug too. I can't imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all in a few days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I never want to repeat. Ever... It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad you are here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne wrote: Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who it might end up helping out. Thank you! I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that point where it's just prolonging the misery. Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and dreary... Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). ?Then the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. ?That should kick in the ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at around 3, I will take the flood dose. This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. ?I think by then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. ?Worse comes to worse I could prep an enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last time.. I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. ?I also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. ?Years ago I tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to extract various plants. ?The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, unless I dose well over a gram, at least. ?And even if I do throw up, it's usually pretty well absorbed by then.. The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. ?I flew over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would have been taking my dose, when I arrived. ?I was starting to feel the withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little chunk of the ibo TA. ?Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, maybe a little bigger? Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the store that I'd need, etc. ?We went back, and then that evening I ate my flood dose. I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing you know it was hitting me strong. ?I started having full on waking dreams, and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. ?That is when I was trying to hide in my covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for me). Then I threw up a lot. ?I would stop for a little while, then throw up again. ?Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember everything. ?I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. ?I ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. ?Probably just had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. ?I didn't get any diarrhea, or anything, but I sure did puke enough. Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. ?I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. ?I did pick up smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers and drank a bit here and there. ?I didn't ever develop a habit (except for the cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it was time to stop. I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. ?I could watch people do heroin, helped a real sick buddy find a vein even. ?Could turn down coke, pills, anything, and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. ?After 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything but my family and friends to be happy. I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I would never get addicted to anything again. ?I did opiates a few times, didn't really care for em anymore. ?I always hated everything about coke but the rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). ?Alcohol was only nice when I drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just stop and be done with it. ?For years I didn't have a drink. I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. ?Then, one night after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. ?Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a guy on a skateboard. ?I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. ?I got on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. ?So I tried again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. I could feel my collarbone snap. ?I knew it was broke, cause it ain't the first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. ?I had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. ?Previously, for broken bones I'd take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and I'd just give the rest away. Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the way through, not just a hairline fracture. ?I went to the hospital, and they x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. ?The ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I went back. They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come back in week. ?I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. ?And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. ?So I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs around a buck a pod. ?For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a single dose. ?No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 hours. ?So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. ?I was still having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using them for a few months. I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, down another pod, down to a pod a day. ?I started weighing them accurately, and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. ?But I would feel sick every morning. Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a day. ?I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than those few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other alkaloids in em. So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. ?I usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another pill. ?I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either trying to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking over my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get done. ?Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy to go get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum of work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much harder these last couple years. I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. ?I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see if that will start to boost my energy. ?I really have to push myself to do it, but I want to make the change. I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. ?So I am trying to get started on them now. ?I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some decent, healthier food. So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure out which day my sitter is going to have off. ?I don't know why I rambled on so long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I just got carried away. If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I thank you all for listening. ?I know many of you out there are caring souls, always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. ?Other than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends that help keep me going every day. I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). ?I am very proud to be a be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around me. ?Much love, friends. Many Blessings To All!! HH --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S wrote: From: Matt S Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 hours after a heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. After having done a few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and methadone, my experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate dose seems to have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed opiate free afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you are full on sick in order to be safe. ?I am not recommending anyone try what I did, it probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger or the dose larger. ?My treatment for methadone was probably close to 36 hours after my last methadone dose and that was so successful that it was the final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago now. My feeling is that you should continue to take your morphine as you have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the extract that morning as soon as you wake up. ?Don't give yourself a bunch of time to think about it or talk yourself out of it. ?Schedule it in advance and then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. Let your sitter know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take enough time to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the lights and bedding situated and then go for it. ?You won't have time to dwell on being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a better idea than ibogaine. ?I don't think you need a test dose either. ?My understanding of the test dose is that it is intended to test for allergic reaction but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an allergic reaction. ?Since you have done treatments before I would say skip it. Matt Helpful Hopeful wrote: ?Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant withdrawal. ?I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get higher. ?I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much discomfort. ?But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me discomfort and more depression. I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. ?I have some things I really need to get done that I have been putting off due to depression. ?I went ahead and took my dose of MS, at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. After remembering how it went last time, with mild withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first dose. ?I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is probably not playing much of a role. ?In the prescribing info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could cause overdose. It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to take a small test dose. ?This should quell my withdrawal and then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free day. ?I don't want to be under the full influence of the iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, I'll be able to manage. ?I am planning on trying again real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and advice. ?I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and unmotivated. ?The longer I sit like this, the longer it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to go ahead and do it. NO FEAR!! ?:) HH n Sat, 2/27/10, sv wrote: ? From: sv Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM Hi HH- i would suggest that the depression you are experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are taking. What is your plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness ?before taking the TA? In my experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband had tapered to 400mg of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was successful. He did experience PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS free! i don't think it would work to divide your dose into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be that 15mg of morphine would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal starting or at the very least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks for the updated tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a desire to venture into chemistry. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 15:43:58 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:43:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! Message-ID: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please keep me in your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side! Iboga, here I come!! Love and light! HH From junkboy64 at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 16:07:42 2010 From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:07:42 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9868fdb31003021307v455e8116x3d550a6a4189fcc2@mail.gmail.com> good on ya!!!! its only scary until it starts to kick in !!!!! good journey!!! remember, dont move your head...... for gods sake, dont move your head.... oh... you moved your head... is that puke on the floor?? lol On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule of > some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone for > a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please keep me in > your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the > other side! > > Iboga, here I come!! > > Love and light! > > HH > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From izmudd at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 16:15:28 2010 From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:15:28 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68a68f8a1003021315o2948291bhf83f30465f3f6fcb@mail.gmail.com> Love and healing to you, HH!!!!! See you on the other side! B On 3/2/10, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule of > some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone for > a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please keep me in > your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the > other side! > > Iboga, here I come!! > > Love and light! > > HH > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -- "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell From jessrhea0 at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 16:31:03 2010 From: jessrhea0 at gmail.com (Jessica Blackburn) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:31:03 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3261AA91-5E5B-43F4-A075-E85383380F96@gmail.com> YAY! I am really happy for you :) jess On Mar 2, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please keep me in your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side! > > Iboga, here I come!! > > Love and light! > > HH > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From sara119 at xs4all.nl Tue Mar 2 16:51:14 2010 From: sara119 at xs4all.nl (Sara Glatt) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:51:14 +0100 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Good Journey!!! love at light, Sara Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule > of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be > gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please > keep me in your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait > to visit the other side! > > Iboga, here I come!! > > Love and light! > > HH > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > From jsantos at persephonebirthways.com Tue Mar 2 17:27:33 2010 From: jsantos at persephonebirthways.com (Jennifer Santos) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:27:33 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Safe travels, lighting some healing incense now and a candle...may you find the questions, may you find the answers, may you find the healing. Jennifer Santos, BBB, CD (DONA) Persephone Birthways 609-737-3MOM jsantos at persphonebirthways.com On Mar 2, 2010, at 4:51 PM, Sara Glatt wrote: >> > > > Good Journey!!! > > love at light, > > Sara > > > > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one > capsule >> of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may >> be >> gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. >> Please >> keep me in your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I >> can't wait >> to visit the other side! >> >> Iboga, here I come!! >> >> Love and light! >> >> HH >> >> >> >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xxmikkixx at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 17:42:05 2010 From: xxmikkixx at gmail.com (Mikki Lynne) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:42:05 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Man I was busy and missed this post! I'm sure you're probably far away by now but gotta love all the love you get sent off with! We've been waiting for this...... :)) On Mar 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one > capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few > hours.. I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna > hang out online. Please keep me in your thoughts! This time it's > going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side! > > Iboga, here I come!! > > Love and light! > > HH > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From ibogamail at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 20:45:26 2010 From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:45:26 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B8DBF36.20006@gmail.com> Good luck and safe journey my friend. Let us know when you touch back down. Matt Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please keep me in your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side! > > Iboga, here I come!! > > Love and light! > > HH > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 21:44:35 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:44:35 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <834802.31212.qm@web51306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <725c35de1003011555k59bb4c3awf7d68fb5ddee7c1b@mail.gmail.com> <834802.31212.qm@web51306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003021844w1cd2d664p5531e087d929ae94@mail.gmail.com> ty Jim and Mikki sounds interesting. On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Jim Hadey wrote: > > Hi Cal, > > It is something to think about and cheap to fix. My dr > said take vitamin D with calcium. You can get a big > jar with big pills that you take once or twice a day. And > they are cheap like vitamin C. I don't know how long it > takes to kick in. They gave her a pill that she takes > once a week. So if you think if will help give it a try. > > > Best to ya, > > - JIM > > > > --- On *Mon, 3/1/10, cal que * wrote: > > > From: cal que > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little > carried away) :-) > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 6:55 PM > > > Wow Jim! I have never considered a vitamin D deficiency to have these > effects but after seeing your post it makes to me...SAD is a real bitch, I > get it every year almost like clockwork in Feb and march...it's uncanny. I > see where people go to a tanning salon to get down on some phototherapy, but > I always thought that was to treat it psychosomatic-ally. It seems our skin > produces vitamin D as a result of exposure to UV/A. > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Jim Hadey > > wrote: > >> >> Hi Mikki, >> >> A FOF went to the dr complaining of depression and >> the dr checked her Vitamin D and she was at 13% of >> what was normal. The dr gave her some Vit D pills and >> Zoloft. If the Vitamin D was that low I would say try the >> Vitamin D and if that does not help try Zoloft - but what >> do I know. Just saying try Vitamin D and see if that >> helps - it is common to run low during the winter and >> it can cause SAD - season something depression. >> It helps to take a Vitamin D with Calcium. Hope that helps. >> >> Best to ya, >> >> - JIM >> >> --- On *Mon, 3/1/10, cal que >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: cal que >> > >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little >> carried away) :-) >> >> To: "The Ibogaine List" >> > >> Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:48 PM >> >> >> thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless and >> it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. >> Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am not alone, that >> there are others out there with the same struggles and neuroses that I have. >> Not calling you neurotic lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It >> means you're smart enough to be crazy ;) >> >> I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer for >> me. SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all throughout my >> younger days...most of it unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give >> yourself too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and say, "this >> is when" and begin your session as planned with no regard for >> 'what-ifs''...the good news is you've done this before, and with a real >> bastard of a drug too. I can't imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at >> a clinic in Indiana for six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I >> would eat it all in a few days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an >> agony I never want to repeat. Ever... >> >> It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad you are >> here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! >> >> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne >> > wrote: >> >>> Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us >>> all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who >>> it might end up helping out. Thank you! >>> >>> I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, >>> waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone >>> dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that >>> point where it's just prolonging the misery. >>> >>> Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, >>> as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and >>> take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning >>> bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to >>> work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and >>> dreary... >>> >>> Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! >>> >>> >>> On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful > >>> wrote: >>> >>> I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the >>>> day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). >>>> Then the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as >>>> possible, then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. That should kick >>>> in the ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at >>>> around 3, I will take the flood dose. >>>> >>>> This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the >>>> whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. I think by >>>> then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. >>>> >>>> I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood >>>> providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. Worse comes to worse I could >>>> prep an enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a >>>> lot faster and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last >>>> time.. >>>> >>>> I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline >>>> acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. I >>>> also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with >>>> vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. Years ago I >>>> tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to >>>> extract various plants. The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I >>>> couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. >>>> >>>> So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does >>>> sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, >>>> unless I dose well over a gram, at least. And even if I do throw up, it's >>>> usually pretty well absorbed by then.. >>>> >>>> The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way >>>> down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. I flew >>>> over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would >>>> have been taking my dose, when I arrived. I was starting to feel the >>>> withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little >>>> chunk of the ibo TA. Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, >>>> maybe a little bigger? >>>> >>>> Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride >>>> down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the >>>> store that I'd need, etc. We went back, and then that evening I ate my >>>> flood dose. >>>> >>>> I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing >>>> you know it was hitting me strong. I started having full on waking dreams, >>>> and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. That is when I was trying to hide in >>>> my covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too >>>> long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for >>>> me). >>>> >>>> Then I threw up a lot. I would stop for a little while, then throw up >>>> again. Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember >>>> everything. I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. I >>>> ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. Probably just >>>> had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. I didn't get any diarrhea, >>>> or anything, but I sure did puke enough. >>>> >>>> Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's >>>> getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. >>>> I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth >>>> (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. I did pick >>>> up smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers >>>> and drank a bit here and there. I didn't ever develop a habit (except for >>>> the cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it >>>> was time to stop. >>>> >>>> I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do >>>> was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. I could watch people do heroin, >>>> helped a real sick buddy find a vein even. Could turn down coke, pills, >>>> anything, and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. After >>>> 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything >>>> but my family and friends to be happy. >>>> >>>> I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I >>>> would never get addicted to anything again. I did opiates a few times, >>>> didn't really care for em anymore. I always hated everything about coke but >>>> the rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and >>>> speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). Alcohol was only nice when I >>>> drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just >>>> stop and be done with it. For years I didn't have a drink. >>>> >>>> I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I >>>> didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. Then, one night >>>> after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few >>>> drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. >>>> Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! >>>> >>>> Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a >>>> guy on a skateboard. I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a >>>> kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. I got >>>> on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. So I tried >>>> again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right >>>> from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. >>>> >>>> I could feel my collarbone snap. I knew it was broke, cause it ain't >>>> the first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. >>>> I had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or >>>> even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. Previously, for broken bones I'd >>>> take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and >>>> I'd just give the rest away. >>>> >>>> Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the >>>> way through, not just a hairline fracture. I went to the hospital, and they >>>> x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. The >>>> ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I >>>> went back. >>>> >>>> They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come >>>> back in week. I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told >>>> me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd >>>> have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me >>>> another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. >>>> >>>> Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. >>>> And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. So >>>> I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, >>>> which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs >>>> around a buck a pod. For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a >>>> single dose. No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 >>>> hours. So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. I was still >>>> having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, >>>> but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using >>>> them for a few months. >>>> >>>> I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without >>>> seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod >>>> powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, >>>> down another pod, down to a pod a day. I started weighing them accurately, >>>> and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. But I would feel >>>> sick every morning. >>>> >>>> Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a >>>> little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a >>>> day. I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced >>>> down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than >>>> those few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other >>>> alkaloids in em. >>>> >>>> So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with >>>> goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. I >>>> usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another >>>> pill. I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, >>>> goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to >>>> get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. >>>> >>>> Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either >>>> trying to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking >>>> over my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get >>>> done. Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy >>>> to go get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum >>>> of work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so >>>> much harder these last couple years. >>>> >>>> I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. >>>> I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am >>>> gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see >>>> if that will start to boost my energy. I really have to push myself to do >>>> it, but I want to make the change. >>>> >>>> I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't >>>> gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. So I am trying to get >>>> started on them now. I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light >>>> at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every >>>> single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in >>>> itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some >>>> decent, healthier food. >>>> >>>> So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more >>>> each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure >>>> out which day my sitter is going to have off. I don't know why I rambled on >>>> so long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I >>>> just got carried away. >>>> >>>> If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I >>>> thank you all for listening. I know many of you out there are caring souls, >>>> always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. Other >>>> than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends >>>> that help keep me going every day. >>>> >>>> I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas >>>> of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). I am very proud to be >>>> a be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find >>>> more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around >>>> me. Much love, friends. >>>> >>>> Many Blessings To All!! >>>> >>>> HH >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Matt S >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" >>>>> > >>>>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 >>>>> hours after a >>>>> heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. >>>>> After having done a >>>>> few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and >>>>> methadone, my >>>>> experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate >>>>> dose seems to >>>>> have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed >>>>> opiate free >>>>> afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you >>>>> are full on sick >>>>> in order to be safe. I am not recommending anyone try >>>>> what I did, it >>>>> probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger >>>>> or the dose >>>>> larger. My treatment for methadone was probably close >>>>> to 36 hours >>>>> after my last methadone dose and that was so successful >>>>> that it was the >>>>> final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago >>>>> now. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My feeling is that you should continue to take your >>>>> morphine as you >>>>> have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the >>>>> extract that >>>>> morning as soon as you wake up. Don't give >>>>> yourself a bunch of time to >>>>> think about it or talk yourself out of it. Schedule >>>>> it in advance and >>>>> then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. >>>>> Let your sitter >>>>> know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take >>>>> enough time >>>>> to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the >>>>> lights and >>>>> bedding situated and then go for it. You won't >>>>> have time to dwell on >>>>> being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a >>>>> better idea than >>>>> ibogaine. I don't think you need a test dose >>>>> either. My understanding >>>>> of the test dose is that it is intended to test for >>>>> allergic reaction >>>>> but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an >>>>> allergic >>>>> reaction. Since you have done treatments before I >>>>> would say skip it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Helpful Hopeful wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low >>>>> point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant >>>>> withdrawal. I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours >>>>> before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. >>>>> >>>>> I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked >>>>> in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get >>>>> higher. I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. >>>>> 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much >>>>> discomfort. But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by >>>>> now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me >>>>> discomfort and more depression. >>>>> >>>>> I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for >>>>> it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at >>>>> about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. I have some >>>>> things I really need to get done that I have been putting >>>>> off due to depression. I went ahead and took my dose of MS, >>>>> at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the >>>>> 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. >>>>> >>>>> After remembering how it went last time, with mild >>>>> withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped >>>>> contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open >>>>> in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first >>>>> dose. I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling >>>>> the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, >>>>> rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. >>>>> >>>>> Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up >>>>> the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka >>>>> morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is >>>>> probably not playing much of a role. In the prescribing >>>>> info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or >>>>> grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the >>>>> opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could >>>>> cause overdose. >>>>> >>>>> It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the >>>>> internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I >>>>> am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to >>>>> take a small test dose. This should quell my withdrawal and >>>>> then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go >>>>> ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start >>>>> feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. >>>>> >>>>> Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free >>>>> day. I don't want to be under the full influence of the >>>>> iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, >>>>> I'll be able to manage. I am planning on trying again >>>>> real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all >>>>> this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I >>>>> don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. >>>>> >>>>> I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about >>>>> to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and >>>>> advice. I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and >>>>> unmotivated. The longer I sit like this, the longer >>>>> it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to >>>>> go ahead and do it. >>>>> >>>>> NO FEAR!! :) >>>>> >>>>> HH >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> n Sat, 2/27/10, sv >>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: sv >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy >>>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >>>>> Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi HH- i would suggest >>>>> that the depression you are >>>>> experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are >>>>> taking. What is your >>>>> plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness before >>>>> taking the TA? In my >>>>> experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband >>>>> had tapered to 400mg >>>>> of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was >>>>> successful. He did experience >>>>> PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS >>>>> free! >>>>> i don't think it would >>>>> work to divide your dose >>>>> into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be >>>>> that 15mg of morphine >>>>> would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal >>>>> starting or at the very >>>>> least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks >>>>> for the updated >>>>> tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a >>>>> desire to venture into >>>>> chemistry. >>>>> >>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>>>> ::::::: (]=- >>>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>>>> :: >>>>> [%][) >>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>>>> :::: (]=- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: >>>>> (]=- >>>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine >>>>> :: [%][) >>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: >>>>> (]=- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >>>>> ::::::: (]=- >>>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: >>>>> [%][) >>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >>>>> :::: (]=- >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 21:46:28 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:46:28 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003021846j19f5848dj3eef5c0c6e47a31e@mail.gmail.com> Fantastic HH, glad you're going for it brother! Best wishes and many blessings! On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule of > some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone for > a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please keep me in > your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the > other side! > > Iboga, here I come!! > > Love and light! > > HH > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 23:54:18 2010 From: mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com (michael langshaw) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:54:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <596841.19515.qm@web44912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> God bless and may you find the answeres you seek. Mike --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Helpful Hopeful wrote: From: Helpful Hopeful Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 3:43 PM Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated.? I just ate one capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours..? I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online.? Please keep me in your thoughts!? This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side!? Iboga, here I come!! Love and light! HH ? ? ? ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 00:04:38 2010 From: mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com (michael langshaw) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:04:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) In-Reply-To: <725c35de1003011555k59bb4c3awf7d68fb5ddee7c1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <727788.24875.qm@web44912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I get seasonal depression every year. this was the first year that I didnt get it. I dont know if it was because I did an Ibogaine treatment or if it was because I started taking vitamin D in the fall. Mike --- On Mon, 3/1/10, cal que wrote: From: cal que Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 6:55 PM Wow Jim! I have never considered a vitamin D deficiency to have these effects but after seeing your post it makes to me...SAD is a real bitch, I get it every year almost like clockwork in Feb and march...it's uncanny. I see where people go to a tanning salon to get down on some phototherapy, but I always thought that was to treat it psychosomatic-ally. It seems our skin produces vitamin D as a result of exposure to UV/A. On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Jim Hadey wrote: Hi Mikki, A FOF went to the dr complaining of depression and the dr checked her Vitamin D and she was at 13% of what was normal.? The dr gave her some Vit D pills and Zoloft.? If the Vitamin D was that low I would say try the Vitamin D and if that does not help try Zoloft - but what do I know.? Just saying try Vitamin D and see if that helps - it is common to run low during the winter and it can cause SAD - season something depression. It helps to take a Vitamin D with Calcium.? Hope that helps. Best to ya, ? - JIM --- On Mon, 3/1/10, cal que wrote: From: cal que Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy (WARNING-extra long story, got a little carried away) :-) To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:48 PM thanks for taking the time to post that HH - experience is priceless and it's good to share that stuff...makes you feel better, makes us feel better. Sometimes, the only glint of light I can see is that I am not alone, that there are others out there with the same struggles and neuroses that I have. Not calling you neurotic lol - or, if I am...take it as a compliment. It means you're smart enough to be crazy ;) I try to remind myself not to feel to much shame...that is a killer for me. SHAME. It's a dirty word, and I felt lots of it all throughout my younger days...most of it unnecessary. I like what Matt said: don't give yourself too much time to think about it. Just point to a day and say, "this is when" and begin your session as planned with no regard for 'what-ifs''...the good news is you've done this before, and with a real bastard of a drug too. I can't imagine using iboga for methadone - I was at a clinic in Indiana for six years. I got 13 take home doses of 100mgs...I would eat it all in a few days, about 300mg a day. Kicking from that is an agony I never want to repeat. Ever... It's good to have a board like this -good for all of us. I'm glad you are here man. Take care and best of luck to you bro! On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mikki Lynne wrote: Hi HH, I think it's cool you posted that story, and that it's good for us all to know at least a little background on each other- you never know who it might end up helping out. Thank you! I had a feeling I've been having the same problem (lethargy, depression, waking up in W/D and just general shittiness feeling) due to low suboxone dose. I took it easy with my taper, like you, but think I've also hit that point where it's just prolonging the misery. Let us know how the exercise stuff is going, don't let it frustrate you, as I'm sure you already know it can seem to make things worse at first, and take a while to start helping. Last winter I ended up going to the tanning bed a couple times a week to help with the depression, and found that to work pretty well too. Hate to do that, but when it's so darn gray and dreary... Anyway, good luck, & looking forward to see how things turn out with ya! On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: I think what I am going to do is is start dosing my MS as late in the day as possible (I can tough it out a few hours longer each day, I think). ?Then the day before my sitter has off work, I will sleep in as late as possible, then wake up and take maybe a third of the dose. ?That should kick in the ibo and ease a good bit of the withdrawal, and when she gets home at around 3, I will take the flood dose. This way I know she'll have that whole afternoon and night, plus the whole next day, until the following morning to watch after me. ?I think by then I'll be okay to take care of myself for a few hours til she gets home.. I will have enough for boosters, maybe even a whole extra flood providing I don't throw up too much, too fast. ?Worse comes to worse I could prep an enema, but I have faith this much more pure extract will hit me a lot faster and harder than that crappy vinegar extract stuff I had last time.. I have been reading elsewhere about people not liking the mescaline acetate alkaloids as much as the HCl, and it bothering their stomachs. ?I also know that anything I have ever tried to take that was made acidic with vinegar to drink, has made me throw up before it kicked in. ?Years ago I tried a bunch of cactus teas and that's what led me to learning how to extract various plants. ?The vinegar was the worst, and other times, I couldn't get enough down for long enough to get strong enough effects. So I learned how to extract mescaline HCl and bam, even though it does sometimes cause me nausea, I usually can make it through, without purging, unless I dose well over a gram, at least. ?And even if I do throw up, it's usually pretty well absorbed by then.. The first time I did iboga TA, for methadone, I had tapered all the way down to 12 mgs a day and was starting to feel pretty crappy daily. ?I flew over to Sara's in Amsterdam, and it would have been about the time I would have been taking my dose, when I arrived. ?I was starting to feel the withdrawal coming on, and she took me to her home, and gave me a little chunk of the ibo TA. ?Not sure exactly, but maybe around the size of a pea, maybe a little bigger? Anyways, within the hour I was feeling better and she took me to ride down to the city and meet some cool people and gather some things from the store that I'd need, etc. ?We went back, and then that evening I ate my flood dose. I went and laid down maybe after a half hour or so, and the next thing you know it was hitting me strong. ?I started having full on waking dreams, and seeing all kinds of crazy visions. ?That is when I was trying to hide in my covers from some of the scary visions, and I don't believe it was too long after that, when I started throwing up (Sara kept a bucket nearby for me). Then I threw up a lot. ?I would stop for a little while, then throw up again. ?Sara would bring me teas or water, don't totally remember everything. ?I didn't want to drink much. but sipped things a little bit. ?I ended up throwing up continuously off and on for many hours. ?Probably just had to get all that toxic crap out of my body. ?I didn't get any diarrhea, or anything, but I sure did puke enough. Anyways, I'll save more of that story for another time, since it's getting late, but for five years I was clean of pretty much all hard drugs. ?I stopped cigarettes for 3 years, and didn't even really get a sweet tooth (no sweets or sodas) back until I started using opiates again. ?I did pick up smoking again when I moved back around a bunch of smokers and drinkers and drank a bit here and there. ?I didn't ever develop a habit (except for the cigarettes), and anytime I did any type of drugs I could tell when it was time to stop. I wasn't addicted to anything for years and the only thing I would do was smoke cannabis, or do psychedelics. ?I could watch people do heroin, helped a real sick buddy find a vein even. ?Could turn down coke, pills, anything, and I didn't even care to smoke as much weed as I once had. ?After 3-4 years I came to a point where I no longer felt I really needed anything but my family and friends to be happy. I did party sometimes, but never got out of hand, and felt I like I would never get addicted to anything again. ?I did opiates a few times, didn't really care for em anymore. ?I always hated everything about coke but the rush, which just wasn't alluring to me at all, cause I hate the coke and speed high (I like to eat and sleep, LOL). ?Alcohol was only nice when I drank it regularly, and then I didn't like the side effects, so I'd just stop and be done with it. ?For years I didn't have a drink. I played around with ketamine a bit, and loads of psychedelics, but I didn't want anything to do with any really addictive drugs. ?Then, one night after a Dead show, I had been partying all morning, mostly having a few drinks, then later before the show I ate a gram and a half of mescaline HCl. ?Was a killer show, ended up gettin in for free even! Well, I used to be a good skateboarder when I was growing up and I saw a guy on a skateboard. ?I was trippin' on mescaline and wanted to give a kick-flip a shot, since I had done 'em probably thousands of times. ?I got on and tried, and didn't land on the board the first time. ?So I tried again, and I landed it, but then I was off balance and it shot out right from under me and I fell flat on my back/shoulder. I could feel my collarbone snap. ?I knew it was broke, cause it ain't the first bone I broke (by far), and I had broken my other collarbone in HS. ?I had broken other bones, been given vicodins before (after the iboga), or even ibuprofen worked for some breaks. ?Previously, for broken bones I'd take the vicodin for a few days for the major pain, and the bone was set and I'd just give the rest away. Well with the collar bone, they can't set it, and it was snapped all the way through, not just a hairline fracture. ?I went to the hospital, and they x-rayed it and told me it was snapped, and gave me some ibuprofen. ?The ibuprofen was making my stomach hurt and doing nothing for my pain, so I went back. They prescribed me some vicodins, sent me on my way and asked me to come back in week. ?I went back in a week, and they checked it and basically told me all they could do was keep an eye on it and if it got too bad, they'd have to re-break it and put pins, or plates in, or whatever, so they gave me another script of vicodin and told me I could keep coming back. Without health insurance, I wasn't gonna keep wasting my time and money. ?And when my vicodin ran out I was still feelin some pretty acute pain. ?So I said screw this, they make all these synthetics from the poppy plant, which has plenty of pain medicine, doesn't require a doctor visit, and costs around a buck a pod. ?For 6 dollars a day I was pain free all day with a single dose. ?No eating tons of pills with tylenol in em and dosing every 6 hours. ?So I used the pods until the pain started lessening. ?I was still having aches and stuff, but it wasn't severe enough to keep taking opiates, but by then I noticed I was again feeling withdrawal since I had been using them for a few months. I had reduced my dose of pods from around 6 jumbo pods, that without seeds weighed around 7-10 grams a piece average (roughly 50 grams of pod powder a day in my morning coffee), to 4 pods, then about every 3-5 days, down another pod, down to a pod a day. ?I started weighing them accurately, and got all the way down to 3 grams of pod powder a day. ?But I would feel sick every morning. Well, needless to say, I screwed up and ended up boosting my dose a little bit, and got back up to around a steady 15-20 grams of pod powder a day. ?I feel stupid, and ashamed for doing it to myself, but again I reduced down to just 30 mgs of pure morphine sulfate a day, probably even less than those few grams of pods, especially when you consider the mix of other alkaloids in em. So here I am, stuck at 30 mgs a day, I wake up every morning with goosebumps and an overall crappy feeling, but not quite really sick yet. ?I usually go use the bathroom, wait until my normal time, then chew up another pill. ?I never get much motivation at all, but I ain't getting chills, goosebumps, hot sweats or sniffles, or anything after an hour, so I try to get all the stuff I can to try and take care of my family. Lately, I have been spending most of my time sitting online either trying to help other people from various internet places I visit, or talking over my problems, but it's been taking away from other things I need to get done. ?Even when I get away from the computer I can barely muster the energy to go get dressed and walk to the store, or to do more than the bare minimum of work I can to scrape by, and it's crappy how it just seems times are so much harder these last couple years. I am stuck in stupid/lazy mode, and I have a way to facilitate a change. ?I mentioned I started doing some sit-ups and leg lifts last night, and I am gonna continue do do some light calisthenics, maybe some light cardio to see if that will start to boost my energy. ?I really have to push myself to do it, but I want to make the change. I know that the iboga can only stop the terrible withdrawal, but isn't gonna create me new good habits out of thin air. ?So I am trying to get started on them now. ?I do think after the iboga it'll help me see the light at the end of the tunnel, and at least let me stop feeling like crap every single morning as soon as my eyes open, which is a big enough relief in itself to get me to go take a nice hot bath or shower, and fix me some decent, healthier food. So I am mentally preparing and pushing myself to do a little bit more each day, and am setting the day I take my next journey, as soon as I figure out which day my sitter is going to have off. ?I don't know why I rambled on so long, but I guess since I ain't sleeping as good as I was for awhile, I just got carried away. If any of you actually made it through all of this, I'm surprised, but I thank you all for listening. ?I know many of you out there are caring souls, always offer great advice, and I am happy to be a part of this list. ?Other than seeing my beautiful family every day, it's many of my internet friends that help keep me going every day. I spend a lot of time trying to help wherever I can in some of my areas of expertise for free (cause it makes me feel good!). ?I am very proud to be a be a part of this list and a couple internet places, where it seems I find more friends than I can in the daily rat race that consumes the world around me. ?Much love, friends. Many Blessings To All!! HH --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Matt S wrote: From: Matt S Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from Randy To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 11:07 AM If it helps you any to know, I took a full flood about 6 hours after a heroin dose once and obviously it was not fatal. After having done a few treatments for opiate dependence for both heroin and methadone, my experience is that waiting longer after the last opiate dose seems to have a beneficial effect in terms of how long I stayed opiate free afterwards, but that you don't have to wait until you are full on sick in order to be safe. ?I am not recommending anyone try what I did, it probably could have been fatal if the heroin were stronger or the dose larger. ?My treatment for methadone was probably close to 36 hours after my last methadone dose and that was so successful that it was the final opiate treatment for me, over six years ago now. My feeling is that you should continue to take your morphine as you have been, schedule the treatment day, and then take the extract that morning as soon as you wake up. ?Don't give yourself a bunch of time to think about it or talk yourself out of it. ?Schedule it in advance and then when you wake up, even if its 4 AM, you do it. Let your sitter know this is the plan and then when you wake up, only take enough time to get a bathroom break and wake the sitter and get the lights and bedding situated and then go for it. ?You won't have time to dwell on being dope sick to make you decide that more dope is a better idea than ibogaine. ?I don't think you need a test dose either. ?My understanding of the test dose is that it is intended to test for allergic reaction but I have never actually heard of anyone who had an allergic reaction. ?Since you have done treatments before I would say skip it. Matt Helpful Hopeful wrote: ?Yeah, I basically think I have reached such a low point and that going any lower causes definite unpleasant withdrawal. ?I also have been waking up about 4-5 hours before my normal dosing time, starting to feel withdrawal. I think being stuck at 30 mgs for a few weeks, has worked in reverse, as I think my tolerance is beginning to get higher. ?I think my previous, lower dose iboga session (Dec. 22nd or 23rd), helped me to get as low as I did without much discomfort. ?But as the iboga alks are pretty much gone by now, I think the tolerance factor is rising, causing me discomfort and more depression. I had thought about it last night, and almost just went for it today, but then as I was sitting there in withdrawal at about 4 am this morning, and thought it over. ?I have some things I really need to get done that I have been putting off due to depression. ?I went ahead and took my dose of MS, at the normal time, and sat through the discomfort for the 4-5 hours, so as not to throw off my schedule. After remembering how it went last time, with mild withdrawal really starting to kick in, I think it helped contribute to my nausea as soon as the gelcaps busted open in my stomach, causing me to throw up nearly all the first dose. ?I think I may have to wait until I just start feeling the sniffles or getting a few goosebumps, then go for it, rather than waiting until I am really feeling crappy. Being that the morphine is short acting, and that I chew up the pills (from reading the literature on MS contin, aka morphine sulfate extended release), the extended release is probably not playing much of a role. ?In the prescribing info on the internet it specifically says not to chew or grind up the pills, as it causes a more rapid release of the opiate (voiding the extended release action), and could cause overdose. It also says the half-life for morphine sulfate (from the internet) is only 2-3 hours, meaning that after 12 hours, I am like 4-6 half-lifes out, which should be low enough to take a small test dose. ?This should quell my withdrawal and then after a few more hours, I think it'll be safe to go ahead and take the iboga flood, before I really start feeling crappy, which may help aid me in normal digestion. Now I just have to wait for my sitter to have another free day. ?I don't want to be under the full influence of the iboga by myself, but am sure after about 20-30 hours or so, I'll be able to manage. ?I am planning on trying again real soon, as I only have about a week left of meds, and all this prolonging doesn't seem to be helping, since I don't seem to be able to successfully taper any lower. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when I am about to blast off, and thanks for all the encouragement and advice. ?I am sick of feeling down in the dumps and unmotivated. ?The longer I sit like this, the longer it'll be before I am better, so I guess I just need to go ahead and do it. NO FEAR!! ?:) HH n Sat, 2/27/10, sv wrote: ? From: sv Subject: [Ibogaine] from Randy To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:21 AM Hi HH- i would suggest that the depression you are experiencing is due to the low amount of MS that you are taking. What is your plan? Are you trying to taper to nothingness ?before taking the TA? In my experience, at 30 mgs you should just go for it. My husband had tapered to 400mg of MS before undergoing ibogaine treatment and was successful. He did experience PAWS though and is still working through it. But he is MS free! i don't think it would work to divide your dose into 2 and take morning and evening. My thought would be that 15mg of morphine would not be enough and you run the risk of withdrawal starting or at the very least....more lethagy and depression. By the way, thanks for the updated tec..also thanks to Chris for the additions. I have a desire to venture into chemistry. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 00:07:20 2010 From: mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com (michael langshaw) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:07:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a1003010932i571254b5kcf3fed9b1e0b3bf3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <160953.10735.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Intersting. --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: From: Beverly Jackson Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:32 PM That's what I was thinking, Jim. Bovenga, ideas? On 3/1/10, Jim Hadey wrote: > > > Hi Bev, > > I think the cheapest way would be to get another phone > with unlimited long distance and call forwarding.? You > could work a shift 3 -11, 11-7, 7 - 3, etc.? You could > call the person who is suppose to be on duty and tell > them your putting the phone on forward.? The next > day the person calls you on your regular phone and > you call the next person to double check to see if > they are home and ready and if so set the call > forwarding for that person.? This would run maybe $25 > to $35 a month.? Now, if your on the road you can also > make you calls to be sure the person know it it their > shift to work and you can call and set it remotely. > Or you can have the phone leave a recording of > the person to call by using an answering machine. > Keep it simple and low cost. > > Also, a web site listing the number may be a good idea > but it is exposing yourself somewhat.? So far no one has > made a big deal out of detoxing people but if you put it > on a net for that purpose it could well attract unwanted > attention.? It may be a good idea to have two phone > numbers for sooner or later someone is going to forget > to forward the number or that they are on duty. ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 00:21:51 2010 From: mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com (michael langshaw) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:21:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] My one year update. Message-ID: <483255.44415.qm@web44904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello all, I did my treatment on Febuary 28, 2009. (one year ago)?and I still remaine opiate and cocaine free. Today is 6 months? abstenant from booze. I was told that Ibogaine would not be a magic bullet and it wastnt. It took hard work after my treatment including 12 steps, cousiling, and constant vigilance in checking my motives. In my opininion one still has to want to get clean when they do their treatment just like with any other attemp to get sober. Good luck to everyone. Ive taken it a step further and am now in the process of traing to be a provider. Lets get the miracle out there people! Much love to all on the list. If it wasnt for this list I would not have gotten treated! Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psychonaut101 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 00:43:54 2010 From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:43:54 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] My one year update. In-Reply-To: <483255.44415.qm@web44904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <483255.44415.qm@web44904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <108a1b7d1003022143m67e79929r3f345a5be86e67d6@mail.gmail.com> Wow man.. I can't believe its been a year.. The time flys! Keep on rockin in the unstuckness! On 3/2/10, michael langshaw wrote: > Hello all, > I did my treatment on Febuary 28, 2009. (one year ago)?and I still remaine > opiate and cocaine free. Today is 6 months? abstenant from booze. I was told > that Ibogaine would not be a magic bullet and it wastnt. It took hard work > after my treatment including 12 steps, cousiling, and constant vigilance in > checking my motives. In my opininion one still has to want to get clean when > they do their treatment just like with any other attemp to get sober. Good > luck to everyone. Ive taken it a step further and am now in the process of > traing to be a provider. Lets get the miracle out there people! > Much love to all on the list. If it wasnt for this list I would not have > gotten treated! > Mike > > > -- Sent from my mobile device From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 00:52:36 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 00:52:36 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] My one year update. In-Reply-To: <483255.44415.qm@web44904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <483255.44415.qm@web44904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003022152g624e131cr572d5ca0bd740b85@mail.gmail.com> Happy anniversary Michael! Keep on going man! On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:21 AM, michael langshaw wrote: > Hello all, > I did my treatment on Febuary 28, 2009. (one year ago) and I still remaine > opiate and cocaine free. Today is 6 months abstenant from booze. I was told > that Ibogaine would not be a magic bullet and it wastnt. It took hard work > after my treatment including 12 steps, cousiling, and constant vigilance in > checking my motives. In my opininion one still has to want to get clean when > they do their treatment just like with any other attemp to get sober. Good > luck to everyone. Ive taken it a step further and am now in the process of > traing to be a provider. Lets get the miracle out there people! > Much love to all on the list. If it wasnt for this list I would not have > gotten treated! > Mike > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From izmudd at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 09:26:29 2010 From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:26:29 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] My one year update. In-Reply-To: <725c35de1003022152g624e131cr572d5ca0bd740b85@mail.gmail.com> References: <483255.44415.qm@web44904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <725c35de1003022152g624e131cr572d5ca0bd740b85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68a68f8a1003030626u65566c53v6db14a3f40e918d0@mail.gmail.com> good on ya, michael!! keep on the path! great to meet you f2f, you're a solid guy, and so embracing of life. hug, b On 3/2/10, cal que wrote: > Happy anniversary Michael! Keep on going man! > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:21 AM, michael langshaw > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I did my treatment on Febuary 28, 2009. (one year ago) and I still remaine >> opiate and cocaine free. Today is 6 months abstenant from booze. I was >> told >> that Ibogaine would not be a magic bullet and it wastnt. It took hard work >> after my treatment including 12 steps, cousiling, and constant vigilance >> in >> checking my motives. In my opininion one still has to want to get clean >> when >> they do their treatment just like with any other attemp to get sober. Good >> luck to everyone. Ive taken it a step further and am now in the process of >> traing to be a provider. Lets get the miracle out there people! >> Much love to all on the list. If it wasnt for this list I would not have >> gotten treated! >> Mike >> >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> > -- "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell From izmudd at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 09:30:13 2010 From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:30:13 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training In-Reply-To: <160953.10735.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <68a68f8a1003010932i571254b5kcf3fed9b1e0b3bf3@mail.gmail.com> <160953.10735.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68a68f8a1003030630n3a0cb811q9aa1a0d222dbbd03@mail.gmail.com> interesting, and imminently doable!!! when I get home (home! I love home!) J.R. and I will check out the gmail talk, or whatever it was called. what other ideas? On 3/2/10, michael langshaw wrote: > Intersting. > > --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: > > > From: Beverly Jackson > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:32 PM > > > That's what I was thinking, Jim. > Bovenga, ideas? > > On 3/1/10, Jim Hadey wrote: >> >> >> Hi Bev, >> >> I think the cheapest way would be to get another phone >> with unlimited long distance and call forwarding.? You >> could work a shift 3 -11, 11-7, 7 - 3, etc.? You could >> call the person who is suppose to be on duty and tell >> them your putting the phone on forward.? The next >> day the person calls you on your regular phone and >> you call the next person to double check to see if >> they are home and ready and if so set the call >> forwarding for that person.? This would run maybe $25 >> to $35 a month.? Now, if your on the road you can also >> make you calls to be sure the person know it it their >> shift to work and you can call and set it remotely. >> Or you can have the phone leave a recording of >> the person to call by using an answering machine. >> Keep it simple and low cost. >> >> Also, a web site listing the number may be a good idea >> but it is exposing yourself somewhat.? So far no one has >> made a big deal out of detoxing people but if you put it >> on a net for that purpose it could well attract unwanted >> attention.? It may be a good idea to have two phone >> numbers for sooner or later someone is going to forget >> to forward the number or that they are on duty. > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > -- "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell From skrupa20022002 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 11:05:33 2010 From: skrupa20022002 at yahoo.com (shelley krupa) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:05:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <9868fdb31003021307v455e8116x3d550a6a4189fcc2@mail.gmail.com> References: <835229.69537.qm@web55907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9868fdb31003021307v455e8116x3d550a6a4189fcc2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <960296.95092.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> HH-glad to hear youre on your way to the lifestyle thats really you,happy trails,shelley ________________________________ From: junkboy To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 3:07:42 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! good on ya!!!! its only scary until it starts to kick in !!!!! good journey!!! remember, dont move your head...... for gods sake, dont move your head.... oh... you moved your head... is that puke on the floor?? lol ? On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. ?I just ate one capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. ?I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. ?Please keep me in your thoughts! ?This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side! > >Iboga, here I come!! > >Love and light! > >HH > > > > > >?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >(][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) >?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sisterwind at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 11:28:30 2010 From: sisterwind at verizon.net (Sister) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:28:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <960296.95092.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <187475.28565.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> guess I am one of the lucky ones but nausea/vomiting was never an issue ...... of course on my first tx I could not move my head without great effort... even then not sure it moved. --- On Wed, 3/3/10, shelley krupa wrote: From: shelley krupa Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 11:05 AM HH-glad to hear youre on your way to the lifestyle thats really you,happy trails,shelley From: junkboy To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 3:07:42 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! good on ya!!!! its only scary until it starts to kick in !!!!! good journey!!! remember, dont move your head...... for gods sake, dont move your head.... oh... you moved your head... is that puke on the floor?? lol ? ? On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. ?I just ate one capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. ?I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. ?Please keep me in your thoughts! ?This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side! Iboga, here I come!! Love and light! HH ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junkboy64 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 12:34:22 2010 From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:34:22 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <187475.28565.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <960296.95092.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <187475.28565.qm@web84001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9868fdb31003030934t6165437bqb3027f00b4c17dfb@mail.gmail.com> my first time i was ok, the second time i puked all over... lol.. On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Sister wrote: > guess I am one of the lucky ones but nausea/vomiting was never an issue > ...... of course on my first tx I could not move my head without great > effort... even then not sure it moved. > > --- On *Wed, 3/3/10, shelley krupa * wrote: > > > From: shelley krupa > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 11:05 AM > > HH-glad to hear youre on your way to the lifestyle thats really you,happy > trails,shelley > > ------------------------------ > *From:* junkboy > *To:* The Ibogaine List > *Sent:* Tue, March 2, 2010 3:07:42 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! > > good on ya!!!! > its only scary until it starts to kick in !!!!! > good journey!!! > remember, dont move your head...... for gods sake, dont move your head.... > oh... you moved your head... > is that puke on the floor?? > lol > > > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful > > wrote: > >> Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. I just ate one capsule >> of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone >> for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. Please keep me >> in your thoughts! This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit >> the other side! >> >> Iboga, here I come!! >> >> Love and light! >> >> HH >> >> >> >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xxmikkixx at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 14:06:24 2010 From: xxmikkixx at gmail.com (Mikki Lynne) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:06:24 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. Message-ID: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has undergone a treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this for quite a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & opinions, but have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it themselves. The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump right from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. Successful or not. P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, support, laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when you wake up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an affection for chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy award-ceremony speech... But seriously, so grateful. Love! Mikki From junkboy64 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 14:38:28 2010 From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 12:38:28 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> References: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9868fdb31003031138p5f4e2634kcc8340e979785293@mail.gmail.com> I did a treatment to get off of sub... i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it went super!! worked perfect!!! On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne wrote: > Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has undergone a > treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this for quite > a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & opinions, but > have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it themselves. > > The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump right > from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. Successful or not. > > P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, support, > laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when you wake > up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an affection for > chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy award-ceremony > speech... But seriously, so grateful. > > Love! > Mikki > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 17:13:58 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:13:58 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a1003030630n3a0cb811q9aa1a0d222dbbd03@mail.gmail.com> References: <68a68f8a1003010932i571254b5kcf3fed9b1e0b3bf3@mail.gmail.com> <160953.10735.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <68a68f8a1003030630n3a0cb811q9aa1a0d222dbbd03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003031413s7a6f1c37kab702533e0a302b@mail.gmail.com> Someone mentioned Skype - I don't know the technical aspect of all this, but I had someone on Skype on call for the duration of my first flood and it was very comforting. It's free but I don't know about security... On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Beverly Jackson wrote: > interesting, and imminently doable!!! when I get home (home! I love > home!) J.R. and I will check out the gmail talk, or whatever it was > called. what other ideas? > > On 3/2/10, michael langshaw wrote: > > Intersting. > > > > --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: > > > > > > From: Beverly Jackson > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment training > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > > Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:32 PM > > > > > > That's what I was thinking, Jim. > > Bovenga, ideas? > > > > On 3/1/10, Jim Hadey wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hi Bev, > >> > >> I think the cheapest way would be to get another phone > >> with unlimited long distance and call forwarding. You > >> could work a shift 3 -11, 11-7, 7 - 3, etc. You could > >> call the person who is suppose to be on duty and tell > >> them your putting the phone on forward. The next > >> day the person calls you on your regular phone and > >> you call the next person to double check to see if > >> they are home and ready and if so set the call > >> forwarding for that person. This would run maybe $25 > >> to $35 a month. Now, if your on the road you can also > >> make you calls to be sure the person know it it their > >> shift to work and you can call and set it remotely. > >> Or you can have the phone leave a recording of > >> the person to call by using an answering machine. > >> Keep it simple and low cost. > >> > >> Also, a web site listing the number may be a good idea > >> but it is exposing yourself somewhat. So far no one has > >> made a big deal out of detoxing people but if you put it > >> on a net for that purpose it could well attract unwanted > >> attention. It may be a good idea to have two phone > >> numbers for sooner or later someone is going to forget > >> to forward the number or that they are on duty. > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a > revolutionary act." George Orwell > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 17:20:11 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:20:11 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <9868fdb31003031138p5f4e2634kcc8340e979785293@mail.gmail.com> References: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> <9868fdb31003031138p5f4e2634kcc8340e979785293@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003031420n435a7612w4dbd9476e24d50d6@mail.gmail.com> Can't speak from experience so far as ibogaine for suboxone - but I'm glad to hear you plan on switching before you dose iboga. It seems to be the way to go if one can and also if you're bumping down in the days or weeks beforehand it draws you into the actual experience more, and I think it makes a difference. Best of luck to you Mikki... On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:38 PM, junkboy wrote: > I did a treatment to get off of sub... > i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it went > super!! worked perfect!!! > > > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne wrote: > >> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has undergone a >> treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this for quite >> a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & opinions, but >> have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it themselves. >> >> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump right >> from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. Successful or not. >> >> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, support, >> laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when you wake >> up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an affection for >> chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy award-ceremony >> speech... But seriously, so grateful. >> >> Love! >> Mikki >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ststuck at comcast.net Wed Mar 3 17:16:08 2010 From: ststuck at comcast.net (Stefan Stuck) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:16:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <966609130.11649751267654568935.JavaMail.root@sz0157a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikki Lynne" To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:06:24 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has ? undergone a treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around ? about this for quite a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of ? good info & opinions, but have yet to talk with someone who's actually ? been thru it themselves. The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump ? right from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. ? Successful or not. P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, ? support, laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH ? when you wake up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings ? of an affection for chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends ? the cheesy award-ceremony speech... But seriously, so grateful. Love! Mikki ?? ? ??-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ??-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- I was on methadone for about a year and heard about suboxone.? Most doctors said I could get off of it very easily without much withdrawl, so I figured I would give it a try.? I have been on suboxone for 2 years now.? Started off at 24mg I beleive and am currently down to 1-2 mg a day, but I still can't get off of it.? I have withdrawls every time I try that I can't get through.? The withdrawls definately aren't as severe as with methadone, but they are bad enough where I still can't get off of it.? I am trying to get money together for an ibogaine treatment so I can finally be off of this crap! Stefan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psychonaut101 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 19:16:50 2010 From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:16:50 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <725c35de1003031420n435a7612w4dbd9476e24d50d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> <9868fdb31003031138p5f4e2634kcc8340e979785293@mail.gmail.com> <725c35de1003031420n435a7612w4dbd9476e24d50d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <108a1b7d1003031616r5a909cfdvf9db75e39ce50d35@mail.gmail.com> I detoxed from suboxone and only gave myself 3 days on an SAO. It was ruff compared to my methadone detox with just 48 hours abstinence. I'd suggest at least 2 weeks off the subs. That stuff hangs in those receptors like super glue and the PAwS syndrome (though do-able) is no beuno! I also found that each day without the bupe my tolerance to the SAO got lower and lower.. So be mindful and don't over do the SAO's your detox will be easier in the long run. On 3/3/10, cal que wrote: > Can't speak from experience so far as ibogaine for suboxone - but I'm glad > to hear you plan on switching before you dose iboga. It seems to be the way > to go if one can and also if you're bumping down in the days or weeks > beforehand it draws you into the actual experience more, and I think it > makes a difference. Best of luck to you Mikki... > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:38 PM, junkboy wrote: > >> I did a treatment to get off of sub... >> i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it went >> super!! worked perfect!!! >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne wrote: >> >>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has undergone >>> a >>> treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this for >>> quite >>> a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & opinions, >>> but >>> have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it themselves. >>> >>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump right >>> from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. Successful or >>> not. >>> >>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, support, >>> laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when you wake >>> up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an affection >>> for >>> chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy >>> award-ceremony >>> speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>> >>> Love! >>> Mikki >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >> >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> > -- Sent from my mobile device From xxmikkixx at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 19:49:16 2010 From: xxmikkixx at gmail.com (Mikki Lynne) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 19:49:16 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d1003031616r5a909cfdvf9db75e39ce50d35@mail.gmail.com> References: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> <9868fdb31003031138p5f4e2634kcc8340e979785293@mail.gmail.com> <725c35de1003031420n435a7612w4dbd9476e24d50d6@mail.gmail.com> <108a1b7d1003031616r5a909cfdvf9db75e39ce50d35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone so far, lots of good feedback. I have been noticing more how people talk about having a "rough" detox, or comparitively rough... And am wondering what that means exactly..... Like the actual ibo treatment being harder on you? Would that be in a mental or physical way, or both...? And suboxone PAWS is scary to me, I have been on this for 3 years. Stable on 2mg now (was at 1.5 but was miserable forever), this is the only part of detox that scares me. James, did you do boosters? Do they offer any relief from PAWS? On Mar 3, 2010, at 7:16 PM, James Forristal wrote: > I detoxed from suboxone and only gave myself 3 days on an SAO. It was > ruff compared to my methadone detox with just 48 hours abstinence. > I'd suggest at least 2 weeks off the subs. That stuff hangs in those > receptors like super glue and the PAwS syndrome (though do-able) is no > beuno! > > I also found that each day without the bupe my tolerance to the SAO > got lower and lower.. So be mindful and don't over do the SAO's your > detox will be easier in the long run. > > > > On 3/3/10, cal que wrote: >> Can't speak from experience so far as ibogaine for suboxone - but >> I'm glad >> to hear you plan on switching before you dose iboga. It seems to be >> the way >> to go if one can and also if you're bumping down in the days or weeks >> beforehand it draws you into the actual experience more, and I >> think it >> makes a difference. Best of luck to you Mikki... >> >> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:38 PM, junkboy wrote: >> >>> I did a treatment to get off of sub... >>> i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it >>> went >>> super!! worked perfect!!! >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has >>>> undergone >>>> a >>>> treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this >>>> for >>>> quite >>>> a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & >>>> opinions, >>>> but >>>> have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it >>>> themselves. >>>> >>>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the >>>> jump right >>>> from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. >>>> Successful or >>>> not. >>>> >>>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, >>>> support, >>>> laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when >>>> you wake >>>> up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an >>>> affection >>>> for >>>> chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy >>>> award-ceremony >>>> speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>>> >>>> Love! >>>> Mikki >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >>> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From psychonaut101 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 19:59:47 2010 From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:59:47 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> <9868fdb31003031138p5f4e2634kcc8340e979785293@mail.gmail.com> <725c35de1003031420n435a7612w4dbd9476e24d50d6@mail.gmail.com> <108a1b7d1003031616r5a909cfdvf9db75e39ce50d35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <108a1b7d1003031659x30510d84q88b91f19c2f6bc0c@mail.gmail.com> I didn't feel worthy of booster until 3 months after my detox though they were offered to me (I'm weird that way).. So no I didn't and I think one 2 weeks and again a month later would be been helpful. It took 13mg/kg followed by 7mg/kg to knock the withdrawal far enough down to me to function. I had 3 days to detox and had to be back at work on my feet 7 hours a day. It was a challenge but I took it as that and learned a lot about myself through the suffering and my reactions to myself and other people while suffering. In the long run I'm grateful for it.. But it wasn't easy. If you can take 2 weeks off for detox you'll be much better off. Mentally I was rather good but I was week physically and that made some situations very stressful and irritating. On 3/3/10, Mikki Lynne wrote: > Thanks to everyone so far, lots of good feedback. I have been noticing > more how people talk about having a "rough" detox, or comparitively > rough... And am wondering what that means exactly..... Like the actual > ibo treatment being harder on you? Would that be in a mental or > physical way, or both...? > > And suboxone PAWS is scary to me, I have been on this for 3 years. > Stable on 2mg now (was at 1.5 but was miserable forever), this is the > only part of detox that scares me. James, did you do boosters? Do they > offer any relief from PAWS? > > On Mar 3, 2010, at 7:16 PM, James Forristal > wrote: > >> I detoxed from suboxone and only gave myself 3 days on an SAO. It was >> ruff compared to my methadone detox with just 48 hours abstinence. >> I'd suggest at least 2 weeks off the subs. That stuff hangs in those >> receptors like super glue and the PAwS syndrome (though do-able) is no >> beuno! >> >> I also found that each day without the bupe my tolerance to the SAO >> got lower and lower.. So be mindful and don't over do the SAO's your >> detox will be easier in the long run. >> >> >> >> On 3/3/10, cal que wrote: >>> Can't speak from experience so far as ibogaine for suboxone - but >>> I'm glad >>> to hear you plan on switching before you dose iboga. It seems to be >>> the way >>> to go if one can and also if you're bumping down in the days or weeks >>> beforehand it draws you into the actual experience more, and I >>> think it >>> makes a difference. Best of luck to you Mikki... >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:38 PM, junkboy wrote: >>> >>>> I did a treatment to get off of sub... >>>> i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it >>>> went >>>> super!! worked perfect!!! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has >>>>> undergone >>>>> a >>>>> treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this >>>>> for >>>>> quite >>>>> a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & >>>>> opinions, >>>>> but >>>>> have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it >>>>> themselves. >>>>> >>>>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the >>>>> jump right >>>>> from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. >>>>> Successful or >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, >>>>> support, >>>>> laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when >>>>> you wake >>>>> up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an >>>>> affection >>>>> for >>>>> chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy >>>>> award-ceremony >>>>> speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>>>> >>>>> Love! >>>>> Mikki >>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -- Sent from my mobile device From sashavictory at mac.com Wed Mar 3 21:25:38 2010 From: sashavictory at mac.com (sasha victory) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:25:38 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <966609130.11649751267654568935.JavaMail.root@sz0157a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <966609130.11649751267654568935.JavaMail.root@sz0157a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <73B38F13-5698-4407-8DAB-6198A8D3DAD4@mac.com> We treated a guy for suboxone. MId 50s. Great guy. He went onto short acting opiates before his treatment. It was still rougher than say a heroin or an oxy detox. His email is robertstnfrd at yahoo.com This was over a year ago. I'm not sure how he is doing now. Tell him sasha sent you and sends him love! S On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Stefan Stuck wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mikki Lynne" > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:06:24 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada > Mountain > Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. > > Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has > undergone a treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around > about this for quite a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of > good info & opinions, but have yet to talk with someone who's actually > been thru it themselves. > > The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump > right from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. > Successful or not. > > P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, > support, laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH > when you wake up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings > of an affection for chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends > the cheesy award-ceremony speech... But seriously, so grateful. > > Love! > Mikki > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > I was on methadone for about a year and heard about suboxone. Most > doctors said I could get off of it very easily without much > withdrawl, so I figured I would give it a try. I have been on > suboxone for 2 years now. Started off at 24mg I beleive and am > currently down to 1-2 mg a day, but I still can't get off of it. I > have withdrawls every time I try that I can't get through. The > withdrawls definately aren't as severe as with methadone, but they > are bad enough where I still can't get off of it. I am trying to > get money together for an ibogaine treatment so I can finally be off > of this crap! > > Stefan > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sashavictory at mac.com Wed Mar 3 21:30:27 2010 From: sashavictory at mac.com (sasha victory) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:30:27 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d1003031659x30510d84q88b91f19c2f6bc0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <3A4FD0C5-B827-4C6D-89AD-DC2C7C82C01B@gmail.com> <9868fdb31003031138p5f4e2634kcc8340e979785293@mail.gmail.com> <725c35de1003031420n435a7612w4dbd9476e24d50d6@mail.gmail.com> <108a1b7d1003031616r5a909cfdvf9db75e39ce50d35@mail.gmail.com> <108a1b7d1003031659x30510d84q88b91f19c2f6bc0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2EE95ABD-9B16-441B-B421-5F89ABB4BDED@mac.com> As I remember, 2 weeks was not even enough for Bob (see my previous post). Everything was gone but this massive leg pain for like months. And he was on SAOs (I like that) for only a few days before tx. Longer would probably have been better. He was on it for 5 yrs. S On Mar 3, 2010, at 5:59 PM, James Forristal wrote: > I didn't feel worthy of booster until 3 months after my detox though > they were offered to me (I'm weird that way).. So no I didn't and I > think one 2 weeks and again a month later would be been helpful. It > took 13mg/kg followed by 7mg/kg to knock the withdrawal far enough > down to me to function. I had 3 days to detox and had to be back at > work on my feet 7 hours a day. It was a challenge but I took it as > that and learned a lot about myself through the suffering and my > reactions to myself and other people while suffering. In the long run > I'm grateful for it.. But it wasn't easy. If you can take 2 weeks off > for detox you'll be much better off. Mentally I was rather good but > I was week physically and that made some situations very stressful and > irritating. > > On 3/3/10, Mikki Lynne wrote: >> Thanks to everyone so far, lots of good feedback. I have been >> noticing >> more how people talk about having a "rough" detox, or comparitively >> rough... And am wondering what that means exactly..... Like the >> actual >> ibo treatment being harder on you? Would that be in a mental or >> physical way, or both...? >> >> And suboxone PAWS is scary to me, I have been on this for 3 years. >> Stable on 2mg now (was at 1.5 but was miserable forever), this is the >> only part of detox that scares me. James, did you do boosters? Do >> they >> offer any relief from PAWS? >> >> On Mar 3, 2010, at 7:16 PM, James Forristal >> wrote: >> >>> I detoxed from suboxone and only gave myself 3 days on an SAO. It >>> was >>> ruff compared to my methadone detox with just 48 hours abstinence. >>> I'd suggest at least 2 weeks off the subs. That stuff hangs in >>> those >>> receptors like super glue and the PAwS syndrome (though do-able) >>> is no >>> beuno! >>> >>> I also found that each day without the bupe my tolerance to the SAO >>> got lower and lower.. So be mindful and don't over do the SAO's your >>> detox will be easier in the long run. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/3/10, cal que wrote: >>>> Can't speak from experience so far as ibogaine for suboxone - but >>>> I'm glad >>>> to hear you plan on switching before you dose iboga. It seems to be >>>> the way >>>> to go if one can and also if you're bumping down in the days or >>>> weeks >>>> beforehand it draws you into the actual experience more, and I >>>> think it >>>> makes a difference. Best of luck to you Mikki... >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:38 PM, junkboy >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I did a treatment to get off of sub... >>>>> i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it >>>>> went >>>>> super!! worked perfect!!! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has >>>>>> undergone >>>>>> a >>>>>> treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this >>>>>> for >>>>>> quite >>>>>> a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & >>>>>> opinions, >>>>>> but >>>>>> have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it >>>>>> themselves. >>>>>> >>>>>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the >>>>>> jump right >>>>>> from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. >>>>>> Successful or >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >>>>>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, >>>>>> support, >>>>>> laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when >>>>>> you wake >>>>>> up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an >>>>>> affection >>>>>> for >>>>>> chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy >>>>>> award-ceremony >>>>>> speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>>>>> >>>>>> Love! >>>>>> Mikki >>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from my mobile device >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From psychonaut101 at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 21:49:20 2010 From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 18:49:20 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <73B38F13-5698-4407-8DAB-6198A8D3DAD4@mac.com> References: <966609130.11649751267654568935.JavaMail.root@sz0157a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <73B38F13-5698-4407-8DAB-6198A8D3DAD4@mac.com> Message-ID: <108a1b7d1003031849x74010624j954e05184c534123@mail.gmail.com> Just to clarify I meant 2 weeks on sao's at least then detox fallowed by 2 weeks of rest and rehab. Ibogaine does help you get through a LOT of the withdrawal and cravings but it's still no cakewalk. I also found rhodiola rosea to be a great help for PAWS, with mental energy, mood and physical endurance.. it's worth having around post detox.. Seems to work with the majority of folks though a few seem to not notice it at all. On 3/3/10, sasha victory wrote: > We treated a guy for suboxone. MId 50s. Great guy. He went onto short > acting opiates before his treatment. It was still rougher than say a > heroin or an oxy detox. > > His email is robertstnfrd at yahoo.com > > This was over a year ago. I'm not sure how he is doing now. Tell him > sasha sent you and sends him love! > > > S > > > > On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Stefan Stuck wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mikki Lynne" >> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:06:24 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada >> Mountain >> Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. >> >> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has >> undergone a treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around >> about this for quite a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of >> good info & opinions, but have yet to talk with someone who's actually >> been thru it themselves. >> >> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump >> right from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. >> Successful or not. >> >> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, >> support, laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH >> when you wake up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings >> of an affection for chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends >> the cheesy award-ceremony speech... But seriously, so grateful. >> >> Love! >> Mikki >> >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> I was on methadone for about a year and heard about suboxone. Most >> doctors said I could get off of it very easily without much >> withdrawl, so I figured I would give it a try. I have been on >> suboxone for 2 years now. Started off at 24mg I beleive and am >> currently down to 1-2 mg a day, but I still can't get off of it. I >> have withdrawls every time I try that I can't get through. The >> withdrawls definately aren't as severe as with methadone, but they >> are bad enough where I still can't get off of it. I am trying to >> get money together for an ibogaine treatment so I can finally be off >> of this crap! >> >> Stefan >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -- Sent from my mobile device From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 03:18:15 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 00:18:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <725c35de1003021846j19f5848dj3eef5c0c6e47a31e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <358410.48243.qm@web55906.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Okay, so I did it, and it worked pretty well. I still didn't get full blown visions, like my first time, and it took hours to hit me. But when I laid back and closed my eyes, I would see faces and shapes and objects float by. I could also, close my eyes in the room I was in and still see where everything one perfectly clearly from my mental picture. It didn't last as long as last time, but I felt a lot better coming down than the last time. I did feel crappy, cause I hadn't eaten at all for like 2 days, and had a bit of the runs. I laid around all day not feelin so hot and but I could feel the iboga a little bit still. But only slight white flickers. So I ate a lil bit more today, just about 2-300 mgs of alks. And I still wasn't feeling great for that long, although it did stop some of the minor residual stuff that was buggin me. But then I decided to smoke a bowl, cause I hadn't for like 2-3 days, plus only maybe 1-2 hours of sleep at best. But after I hit that bowl, it took away every little annoying thing I felt, and now, other than some trails and a slight buzz, I feel totally normal. I ate more today than I have in several days. So I am free from the opiates, and cigarettes taste horrible. I ended up smoking several on the come up, and could first tell it was kicking in cause of the taste. Now I am gonna stop those, too, but it's gonna be a little tougher. Last time I weened myself off of cigs, five months after my first iboga trip. When I beat this nicotine addiction again, I'll never smoke another one of these awful ass things. Anyways, I hope I get some sleep sometime soon, but at least I don't feel all that tired. BTW, I was guessing some benedryl, aka diphenhydramine, is probably a bad idea with ibo, for some sleep, maybe? Just one thing here I know I had that usually puts me to sleep when I take one or two, but don't wanna do anything dangerous, especially cause I did that little boost today. Thanks everyone for all your kind comments and I know I won't need any opiates anymore. It's way easier than the methadone was.. :) All my best to everyone, iboga worked again! HH PS. I think I might have a high tolerance or some really screwed up digestion system, cause that shit was eaten with 2 hours or so, then even boosted with another cap. Did only throw up once, and it wasn't a whole lot. For some reason though it must absorb really slow. Wish I would have got more meaningful visions, but I did get some crap cleaned out of me, and learned a bit more in how it works. Next time I hope that I can just take it for the more spiritual journey. --- On Tue, 3/2/10, cal que wrote: > From: cal que > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 6:46 PM > Fantastic HH, glad you're going for it > brother! Best wishes and many blessings! > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:43 PM, > Helpful Hopeful > wrote: > > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep > everyone updated. ?I just ate one capsule of some TA, and > will be flooding within the next few hours.. ?I may be gone > for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. > ?Please keep me in your thoughts! ?This time it's > going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other > side! > > > > > Iboga, here I come!! > > > > Love and light! > > > > HH > > > > > > > > > > > > ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: > (]=- > > (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > :: ?[%][) > > ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: > (]=- > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From sara119 at xs4all.nl Thu Mar 4 03:18:44 2010 From: sara119 at xs4all.nl (Sara Glatt) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:18:44 +0100 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d1003031849x74010624j954e05184c534123@mail.gmail.com> References: <966609130.11649751267654568935.JavaMail.root@sz0157a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <73B38F13-5698-4407-8DAB-6198A8D3DAD4@mac.com> <108a1b7d1003031849x74010624j954e05184c534123@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <76f4f17731ac1d158bc03b2fe7713e3f.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> > this is a report to give you some impression about after the suboxone detox. Hi Sara, i've just read your mail that you've sent about 2 weeks ago. Sorry about that but the thing is i still don't have an apartment of my own so i'm still moving around and i've changed few addresses lately (sisters place, my parents, my friends...etc). At most of these places i don't have an internet connection. As for the capsules i've used them all in first 3 weeks from my arrival. I think they helped me a lot. The thing is that i couldn't sleep at all for about 20 days since i left your home. The capsules gave me strenght and optimism to carry through that period. I've tried with benzos ( only once, i was feeling kinda depessed from them) and some really strong sleeping pills (i was only more tired but i couldn't sleep). The only thing that helped me in that period was your capsules (thanks again!!) and some good homegrown :-)) Oh yes, i almost forgot, in that period i had an eating disorder; i could eat all day all night and in about a month i've gained about 15kg ;-)))). In the last 2 weeks i'm sleeping like a baby and i'm eating normally again, and i don't have any withdrawal symptoms at all. Hopefully in about 2-3 weeks i'll have my own apartment (some paperwork still needs to be done) so such things as somebody waiting for my reply for two weeks won't happen again. How are you doing? I really hope everything's alright with you and your family. I have such a nice memory of that 8 days i've spent at your place, hopefully i'll catch some time soon and come to visit you all !!! Best wishes to you and your family!!!!!!! the capsules are iboga root bark of a high quality. That's it for now. Sara Glatt Just to clarify I meant 2 weeks on sao's at least then detox fallowed > by 2 weeks of rest and rehab. Ibogaine does help you get through a > LOT of the withdrawal and cravings but it's still no cakewalk. I > also found rhodiola rosea to be a great help for PAWS, with mental > energy, mood and physical endurance.. it's worth having around post > detox.. Seems to work with the majority of folks though a few seem to > not notice it at all. > > On 3/3/10, sasha victory wrote: >> We treated a guy for suboxone. MId 50s. Great guy. He went onto short >> acting opiates before his treatment. It was still rougher than say a >> heroin or an oxy detox. >> >> His email is robertstnfrd at yahoo.com >> >> This was over a year ago. I'm not sure how he is doing now. Tell him >> sasha sent you and sends him love! >> >> >> S >> >> >> >> On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Stefan Stuck wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mikki Lynne" >>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:06:24 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada >>> Mountain >>> Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. >>> >>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has >>> undergone a treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around >>> about this for quite a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of >>> good info & opinions, but have yet to talk with someone who's actually >>> been thru it themselves. >>> >>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump >>> right from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. >>> Successful or not. >>> >>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, >>> support, laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH >>> when you wake up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings >>> of an affection for chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends >>> the cheesy award-ceremony speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>> >>> Love! >>> Mikki >>> >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >>> I was on methadone for about a year and heard about suboxone. Most >>> doctors said I could get off of it very easily without much >>> withdrawl, so I figured I would give it a try. I have been on >>> suboxone for 2 years now. Started off at 24mg I beleive and am >>> currently down to 1-2 mg a day, but I still can't get off of it. I >>> have withdrawls every time I try that I can't get through. The >>> withdrawls definately aren't as severe as with methadone, but they >>> are bad enough where I still can't get off of it. I am trying to >>> get money together for an ibogaine treatment so I can finally be off >>> of this crap! >>> >>> Stefan >>> >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 04:12:28 2010 From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:12:28 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <358410.48243.qm@web55906.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <725c35de1003021846j19f5848dj3eef5c0c6e47a31e@mail.gmail.com> <358410.48243.qm@web55906.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1f5488f1003040112g280d38e3o20a57bf619803afa@mail.gmail.com> Congrats on the journey. Intestinally speaking, if you haven't had anything to eat for some time your body generally shuts off blood circulation to your stomach etc. So it actually makes sense that things took a while to come together. Sometimes a bit of food w/ a pill helps to get it absorbed. Rock on On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Okay, so I did it, and it worked pretty well. I still didn't get full > blown visions, like my first time, and it took hours to hit me. But when I > laid back and closed my eyes, I would see faces and shapes and objects float > by. I could also, close my eyes in the room I was in and still see where > everything one perfectly clearly from my mental picture. > > It didn't last as long as last time, but I felt a lot better coming down > than the last time. I did feel crappy, cause I hadn't eaten at all for like > 2 days, and had a bit of the runs. I laid around all day not feelin so hot > and but I could feel the iboga a little bit still. But only slight white > flickers. > > So I ate a lil bit more today, just about 2-300 mgs of alks. And I still > wasn't feeling great for that long, although it did stop some of the minor > residual stuff that was buggin me. But then I decided to smoke a bowl, > cause I hadn't for like 2-3 days, plus only maybe 1-2 hours of sleep at > best. But after I hit that bowl, it took away every little annoying thing I > felt, and now, other than some trails and a slight buzz, I feel totally > normal. > > I ate more today than I have in several days. So I am free from the > opiates, and cigarettes taste horrible. I ended up smoking several on the > come up, and could first tell it was kicking in cause of the taste. Now I > am gonna stop those, too, but it's gonna be a little tougher. Last time I > weened myself off of cigs, five months after my first iboga trip. When I > beat this nicotine addiction again, I'll never smoke another one of these > awful ass things. Anyways, I hope I get some sleep sometime soon, but at > least I don't feel all that tired. > > BTW, I was guessing some benedryl, aka diphenhydramine, is probably a bad > idea with ibo, for some sleep, maybe? Just one thing here I know I had that > usually puts me to sleep when I take one or two, but don't wanna do anything > dangerous, especially cause I did that little boost today. > > Thanks everyone for all your kind comments and I know I won't need any > opiates anymore. It's way easier than the methadone was.. :) > > All my best to everyone, iboga worked again! > > HH > > PS. I think I might have a high tolerance or some really screwed up > digestion system, cause that shit was eaten with 2 hours or so, then even > boosted with another cap. Did only throw up once, and it wasn't a whole > lot. For some reason though it must absorb really slow. Wish I would have > got more meaningful visions, but I did get some crap cleaned out of me, and > learned a bit more in how it works. Next time I hope that I can just take > it for the more spiritual journey. > > --- On Tue, 3/2/10, cal que wrote: > > > From: cal que > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > > Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 6:46 PM > > Fantastic HH, glad you're going for it > > brother! Best wishes and many blessings! > > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:43 PM, > > Helpful Hopeful > > wrote: > > > > Okay, folks, told you I'd keep > > everyone updated. I just ate one capsule of some TA, and > > will be flooding within the next few hours.. I may be gone > > for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. > > Please keep me in your thoughts! This time it's > > going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other > > side! > > > > > > > > > > Iboga, here I come!! > > > > > > > > Love and light! > > > > > > > > HH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: > > (]=- > > > > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine > > :: [%][) > > > > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: > > (]=- > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: > > [%][) > > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -- ~~_/) ~~ ~~~~~~~ http://www.maps.org ?|Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xxmikkixx at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 08:35:39 2010 From: xxmikkixx at gmail.com (Mikki Lynne) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 08:35:39 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <76f4f17731ac1d158bc03b2fe7713e3f.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> References: <966609130.11649751267654568935.JavaMail.root@sz0157a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <73B38F13-5698-4407-8DAB-6198A8D3DAD4@mac.com> <108a1b7d1003031849x74010624j954e05184c534123@mail.gmail.com> <76f4f17731ac1d158bc03b2fe7713e3f.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <8DC91966-499A-4D23-9DDE-BEDB2F074AA9@gmail.com> James, Sasha, Sarah, junkboy, cal, etc... Good stuff! I have PMs I'm working on about some things, but wanted to drop a general note to say this has been encouraging and I'm getting a better feel for what I'm up against- my tx is starting to "take form", I s'pose... :) Sarah- I was hoping you'd respond, your posts were very encouraging & up front in the last cpl suboxone discussions we had going on here. I'll be in touch soon. I hear you James, in many ways, & glad you posted about having to go back to work way too soon. My job is the same way, constantly running around on the feet. I'd prefer to come back from tx as well as possible- in my town I was like the suboxone guinea pig, and when ppl started seeing how well it worked many followed that path and have been clean since! :)) Now there are many more ppl waiting to see how ibo works out for me... So I think I should not rush it, give it the best I've got, and be a good example for them. Should be able to take the two weeks off after tx, possibly more. Thanks:) Sasha- I will get in touch with contact you gave me & let you know how it goes. Have been wanting to chat with you & Jessica for a while too, but work is crazy now & barely time for my fam. Workin on it right now. And, to everyone: Been thinking, if one were to switch from sub. to SAO, for a more extended time prior to ibo tx- say for a few months... Shouldn't this get a person through the period of time where sub. PAWS would be at its worst? Theoretically it would seem that suboxone & its WD side effects should be pretty much cleaned out by that point, and ibo would only need to address SAO dependence... Right? Thanks, Love, Mikki On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:18 AM, "Sara Glatt" wrote: >> > > this is a report to give you some impression about after the > suboxone detox. > > > Hi Sara, > > i've just read your mail that you've sent about 2 weeks ago. Sorry > about > that but the thing is i still don't have an apartment of my own so > i'm still > moving around and i've changed few addresses lately (sisters place, my > parents, my friends...etc). At most of these places i don't have an > internet > connection. > As for the capsules i've used them all in first 3 weeks from my > arrival. I > think they helped me a lot. The thing is that i couldn't sleep at > all for > about 20 days since i left your home. The capsules gave me strenght > and > optimism to carry through that period. I've tried with benzos ( only > once, i > was feeling kinda depessed from them) and some really strong > sleeping pills > (i was only more tired but i couldn't sleep). The only thing that > helped me > in that period was your capsules (thanks again!!) and some good > homegrown > :-)) > Oh yes, i almost forgot, in that period i had an eating disorder; i > could > eat all day all night and in about a month i've gained about > 15kg ;-)))). > In the last 2 weeks i'm sleeping like a baby and i'm eating normally > again, > and i don't have any withdrawal symptoms at all. > Hopefully in about 2-3 weeks i'll have my own apartment (some > paperwork > still needs to be done) so such things as somebody waiting for my > reply for > two weeks won't happen again. > How are you doing? > I really hope everything's alright with you and your family. I have > such a > nice memory of that 8 days i've spent at your place, hopefully i'll > catch > some time soon and come to visit you all !!! > > > Best wishes to you and your > family!!!!!!! > > the capsules are iboga root bark of a high quality. > > That's it for now. > Sara Glatt > > > > > > > > Just to clarify I meant 2 weeks on sao's at least then detox fallowed >> by 2 weeks of rest and rehab. Ibogaine does help you get through a >> LOT of the withdrawal and cravings but it's still no cakewalk. I >> also found rhodiola rosea to be a great help for PAWS, with mental >> energy, mood and physical endurance.. it's worth having around post >> detox.. Seems to work with the majority of folks though a few seem >> to >> not notice it at all. >> >> On 3/3/10, sasha victory wrote: >>> We treated a guy for suboxone. MId 50s. Great guy. He went onto >>> short >>> acting opiates before his treatment. It was still rougher than say a >>> heroin or an oxy detox. >>> >>> His email is robertstnfrd at yahoo.com >>> >>> This was over a year ago. I'm not sure how he is doing now. Tell him >>> sasha sent you and sends him love! >>> >>> >>> S >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Stefan Stuck wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mikki Lynne" >>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:06:24 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada >>>> Mountain >>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. >>>> >>>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has >>>> undergone a treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around >>>> about this for quite a while & have talked to several ppl with >>>> lots of >>>> good info & opinions, but have yet to talk with someone who's >>>> actually >>>> been thru it themselves. >>>> >>>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump >>>> right from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. >>>> Successful or not. >>>> >>>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, >>>> support, laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to >>>> HH >>>> when you wake up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the >>>> beginnings >>>> of an affection for chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now >>>> ends >>>> the cheesy award-ceremony speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>>> >>>> Love! >>>> Mikki >>>> >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>> >>>> I was on methadone for about a year and heard about suboxone. Most >>>> doctors said I could get off of it very easily without much >>>> withdrawl, so I figured I would give it a try. I have been on >>>> suboxone for 2 years now. Started off at 24mg I beleive and am >>>> currently down to 1-2 mg a day, but I still can't get off of it. I >>>> have withdrawls every time I try that I can't get through. The >>>> withdrawls definately aren't as severe as with methadone, but they >>>> are bad enough where I still can't get off of it. I am trying to >>>> get money together for an ibogaine treatment so I can finally be >>>> off >>>> of this crap! >>>> >>>> Stefan >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From izmudd at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 10:15:03 2010 From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 07:15:03 -0800 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <358410.48243.qm@web55906.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <725c35de1003021846j19f5848dj3eef5c0c6e47a31e@mail.gmail.com> <358410.48243.qm@web55906.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68a68f8a1003040715k24996936y6e6ca58f21221250@mail.gmail.com> Welcome back! Hey, your not addicted to opiates! How cool is that? Remember to exercise, move dat body! Take some walks, do some stretching, give yourself every leg up you can. You know this stuff, consider this mere reminders. Spicy food, hot baths, exercise! Valerian and melatonin can help with sleep, so can benzos. Good to see you back in the land of the living! ;) -- "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 13:21:18 2010 From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:21:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a1003040715k24996936y6e6ca58f21221250@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks, I am feeling pretty good at the moment, a little goosebumps here and their, but I have found lots of high grade medical quality cannabis has helped me the very most. It takes away the depth of the chills or goosebumps and makes me hungry, so I can eat normally. I have found gettin up and doing stuff feels pretty good. Feels good to get the momentum going. Still not feeling super motivated but a little bit more each day is doing pretty good. I am stayin away from the benzos for sleep, cause I want my body to heal itself as fast as possible without interfering with such an addictive substance. I am just trying to eat and exercise as much as I can muster, so I can get back to taking care of shit around the house, and earning some more money. Thanks for the encouragement. I love all you wonderful people out there who have helped me tremendously, and all for free! :) Good counseling, and great advice from all! Love, HH --- On Thu, 3/4/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: > From: Beverly Jackson > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Thursday, March 4, 2010, 7:15 AM > Welcome back! Hey, your not addicted > to opiates! How cool is that? > Remember to exercise, move dat body! Take some walks, do > some > stretching, give yourself every leg up you can. You know > this stuff, > consider this mere reminders. Spicy food, hot baths, > exercise! > Valerian and melatonin can help with sleep, so can benzos. > Good to see > you back in the land of the living! ;) > > -- > "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth > becomes a > revolutionary act."? ???George Orwell > > ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? > [%][) > ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > :::: (]=- > From jessrhea0 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 13:54:13 2010 From: jessrhea0 at gmail.com (Jessica Blackburn) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 12:54:13 -0600 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7B8006E0-5299-468C-ABB2-25758EE66AB7@gmail.com> Sounds like you are doing great! Congratulations, you made it through! I have found that gaba and 5 htp help stabilize my mood post-ibogaine, and also for sleep i use melatonin and tryptophan which work really really well. Best of luck! On Mar 4, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Thanks, I am feeling pretty good at the moment, a little goosebumps here and their, but I have found lots of high grade medical quality cannabis has helped me the very most. It takes away the depth of the chills or goosebumps and makes me hungry, so I can eat normally. I have found gettin up and doing stuff feels pretty good. > > Feels good to get the momentum going. Still not feeling super motivated but a little bit more each day is doing pretty good. I am stayin away from the benzos for sleep, cause I want my body to heal itself as fast as possible without interfering with such an addictive substance. > > I am just trying to eat and exercise as much as I can muster, so I can get back to taking care of shit around the house, and earning some more money. > > Thanks for the encouragement. I love all you wonderful people out there who have helped me tremendously, and all for free! :) Good counseling, and great advice from all! > > Love, > > HH > > --- On Thu, 3/4/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: > >> From: Beverly Jackson >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! >> To: "The Ibogaine List" >> Date: Thursday, March 4, 2010, 7:15 AM >> Welcome back! Hey, your not addicted >> to opiates! How cool is that? >> Remember to exercise, move dat body! Take some walks, do >> some >> stretching, give yourself every leg up you can. You know >> this stuff, >> consider this mere reminders. Spicy food, hot baths, >> exercise! >> Valerian and melatonin can help with sleep, so can benzos. >> Good to see >> you back in the land of the living! ;) >> >> -- >> "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth >> becomes a >> revolutionary act." George Orwell >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands >> ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: >> [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe >> :::: (]=- >> > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From calaquendi420 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 14:15:37 2010 From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:15:37 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <68a68f8a1003040715k24996936y6e6ca58f21221250@mail.gmail.com> <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <725c35de1003041115v129fe212gc97fcdc8442b3da3@mail.gmail.com> Great to hear from you bro - thanks for sharing with us...weed helps tremendously after iboga (for me at least) I really noticed the analgesic effects much more. Benadryl sucks IMO - it gives me restless legs, seroquel too. If you can get some ambien those help. I hear you not wanting to take benzos, but it might be prudent in the early days so you don't go bananas from insomnia. How much did you end up taking of the extract? Curious for details hehe...good to see you doing well my friend. Many blessings ~Cal On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > Thanks, I am feeling pretty good at the moment, a little goosebumps here > and their, but I have found lots of high grade medical quality cannabis has > helped me the very most. It takes away the depth of the chills or > goosebumps and makes me hungry, so I can eat normally. I have found gettin > up and doing stuff feels pretty good. > > Feels good to get the momentum going. Still not feeling super motivated > but a little bit more each day is doing pretty good. I am stayin away from > the benzos for sleep, cause I want my body to heal itself as fast as > possible without interfering with such an addictive substance. > > I am just trying to eat and exercise as much as I can muster, so I can get > back to taking care of shit around the house, and earning some more money. > > Thanks for the encouragement. I love all you wonderful people out there > who have helped me tremendously, and all for free! :) Good counseling, and > great advice from all! > > Love, > > HH > > --- On Thu, 3/4/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: > > > From: Beverly Jackson > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! > > To: "The Ibogaine List" > > Date: Thursday, March 4, 2010, 7:15 AM > > Welcome back! Hey, your not addicted > > to opiates! How cool is that? > > Remember to exercise, move dat body! Take some walks, do > > some > > stretching, give yourself every leg up you can. You know > > this stuff, > > consider this mere reminders. Spicy food, hot baths, > > exercise! > > Valerian and melatonin can help with sleep, so can benzos. > > Good to see > > you back in the land of the living! ;) > > > > -- > > "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth > > becomes a > > revolutionary act." George Orwell > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > > ::::::: (]=- > > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: > > [%][) > > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > > :::: (]=- > > > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bicuitboy714 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 14:21:42 2010 From: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com (Randy Faulconer) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:21:42 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <7B8006E0-5299-468C-ABB2-25758EE66AB7@gmail.com> References: <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <7B8006E0-5299-468C-ABB2-25758EE66AB7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <29d165a31003041121w1b1d1b9fk3ec46af1d4afdf0d@mail.gmail.com> It's OK to use Benedryl (diphenhydramine) I was told so by Howard himself. It's good to see you here and I'm with you. Email me if you would like to talk about things and if you do I'll give you my cell number. OK?? Peace Love and Trails Randy BiscuitBoy Blues On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Jessica Blackburn wrote: > Sounds like you are doing great! Congratulations, you made it through! I > have found that gaba and 5 htp help stabilize my mood post-ibogaine, and > also for sleep i use melatonin and tryptophan which work really really well. > Best of luck! > > On Mar 4, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: > > > Thanks, I am feeling pretty good at the moment, a little goosebumps here > and their, but I have found lots of high grade medical quality cannabis has > helped me the very most. It takes away the depth of the chills or > goosebumps and makes me hungry, so I can eat normally. I have found gettin > up and doing stuff feels pretty good. > > > > Feels good to get the momentum going. Still not feeling super motivated > but a little bit more each day is doing pretty good. I am stayin away from > the benzos for sleep, cause I want my body to heal itself as fast as > possible without interfering with such an addictive substance. > > > > I am just trying to eat and exercise as much as I can muster, so I can > get back to taking care of shit around the house, and earning some more > money. > > > > Thanks for the encouragement. I love all you wonderful people out there > who have helped me tremendously, and all for free! :) Good counseling, and > great advice from all! > > > > Love, > > > > HH > > > > --- On Thu, 3/4/10, Beverly Jackson wrote: > > > >> From: Beverly Jackson > >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! > >> To: "The Ibogaine List" > >> Date: Thursday, March 4, 2010, 7:15 AM > >> Welcome back! Hey, your not addicted > >> to opiates! How cool is that? > >> Remember to exercise, move dat body! Take some walks, do > >> some > >> stretching, give yourself every leg up you can. You know > >> this stuff, > >> consider this mere reminders. Spicy food, hot baths, > >> exercise! > >> Valerian and melatonin can help with sleep, so can benzos. > >> Good to see > >> you back in the land of the living! ;) > >> > >> -- > >> "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth > >> becomes a > >> revolutionary act." George Orwell > >> > >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands > >> ::::::: (]=- > >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: > >> [%][) > >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe > >> :::: (]=- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 15:14:41 2010 From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 12:14:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <9868fdb31003021307v455e8116x3d550a6a4189fcc2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <981834.32134.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi HH, Yep, your in my thoughts.? This should pass easily, your young, in good shape and not really using that much.? Then you will say why did I wait so long????????? Peace be with you, ? - JIM --- On Tue, 3/2/10, junkboy wrote: From: junkboy Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 4:07 PM good on ya!!!! its only scary until it starts to kick in !!!!! good journey!!! remember, dont move your head...... for gods sake, dont move your head.... oh... you moved your head... is that puke on the floor?? lol ? ? On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Helpful Hopeful wrote: Okay, folks, told you I'd keep everyone updated. ?I just ate one capsule of some TA, and will be flooding within the next few hours.. ?I may be gone for a few, but until it kicks in I am gonna hang out online. ?Please keep me in your thoughts! ?This time it's going to work, and I can't wait to visit the other side! Iboga, here I come!! Love and light! HH ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sisterwind at verizon.net Thu Mar 4 16:24:47 2010 From: sisterwind at verizon.net (Sister) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:24:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d1003031616r5a909cfdvf9db75e39ce50d35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <849543.89097.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> just fyi..... I had urines from my neuro MD after I got off subs weekly... I jumped from a smiget dose that I could not even measure.... took three weeks to have clean urine from sub..? Just food for thought. --- On Wed, 3/3/10, James Forristal wrote: From: James Forristal Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 7:16 PM I detoxed from suboxone and only gave myself 3 days on an SAO.? It was ruff compared to my methadone detox with just 48 hours abstinence. I'd suggest at least 2 weeks off the subs.? That stuff hangs in those receptors like super glue and the PAwS syndrome (though do-able) is no beuno! I also found that each day without the bupe my tolerance to the SAO got lower and lower.. So be mindful and don't over do the SAO's your detox will be easier in the long run. On 3/3/10, cal que wrote: > Can't speak from experience so far as ibogaine for suboxone - but I'm glad > to hear you plan on switching before you dose iboga. It seems to be the way > to go if one can and also if you're bumping down in the days or weeks > beforehand it draws you into the actual experience more, and I think it > makes a difference. Best of luck to you Mikki... > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:38 PM, junkboy wrote: > >> I did a treatment to get off of sub... >> i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it went >> super!! worked perfect!!! >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne wrote: >> >>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has undergone >>> a >>> treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about this for >>> quite >>> a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & opinions, >>> but >>> have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it themselves. >>> >>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump right >>> from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. Successful or >>> not. >>> >>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, support, >>> laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when you wake >>> up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an affection >>> for >>> chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy >>> award-ceremony >>> speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>> >>> Love! >>> Mikki >>>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) >>>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >> >> >> >>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) >>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> >> > -- Sent from my mobile device ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sisterwind at verizon.net Thu Mar 4 16:54:23 2010 From: sisterwind at verizon.net (Sister) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:54:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <8DC91966-499A-4D23-9DDE-BEDB2F074AA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <475339.54389.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> PAWS is post acute withdrawl.... normally dosn'et began (if it does at all) till all opiates are out of your system.? I suggest not to put a lot of weight in paws... sign of healing. ? Just fyi.... when I did the sub route.. took slightly over three weeks to get it out of my system.. proof by urine test. --- On Thu, 3/4/10, Mikki Lynne wrote: From: Mikki Lynne Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. To: "The Ibogaine List" Date: Thursday, March 4, 2010, 8:35 AM James, Sasha, Sarah, junkboy, cal, etc... Good stuff! I have PMs I'm working on about some things, but wanted to drop a general note to say this has been encouraging and I'm getting a better feel for what I'm up against- my tx is starting to "take form", I s'pose... :) Sarah- I was hoping you'd respond, your posts were very encouraging & up front in the last cpl suboxone discussions we had going on here. I'll be in touch soon. I hear you James, in many ways, & glad you posted about having to go back to work way too soon. My job is the same way, constantly running around on the feet. I'd prefer to come back from tx as well as possible- in my town I was like the suboxone guinea pig, and when ppl started seeing how well it worked many followed that path and have been clean since! :)) Now there are many more ppl waiting to see how ibo works out for me... So I think I should not rush it, give it the best I've got, and be a good example for them. Should be able to take the two weeks off after tx, possibly more. Thanks:) Sasha- I will get in touch with contact you gave me & let you know how it goes. Have been wanting to chat with you & Jessica for a while too, but work is crazy now & barely time for my fam. Workin on it right now. And, to everyone: Been thinking, if one were to switch from sub. to SAO, for a more extended time prior to ibo tx- say for a few months... Shouldn't this get a person through the period of time where sub. PAWS would be at its worst? Theoretically it would seem that suboxone & its WD side effects should be pretty much cleaned out by that point, and ibo would only need to address SAO dependence... Right? Thanks, Love, Mikki On Mar 4, 2010, at 3:18 AM, "Sara Glatt" wrote: >> > > this is a report to give you some impression about after the suboxone detox. > > > Hi Sara, > > i've just read your mail that you've sent about 2 weeks ago. Sorry about > that but the thing is i still don't have an apartment of my own so i'm still > moving around and i've changed few addresses lately (sisters place, my > parents, my friends...etc). At most of these places i don't have an internet > connection. > As for the capsules i've used them all in first 3 weeks from my arrival. I > think they helped me a lot. The thing is that i couldn't sleep at all for > about 20 days since i left your home. The capsules gave me strenght and > optimism to carry through that period. I've tried with benzos ( only once, i > was feeling kinda depessed from them) and some really strong sleeping pills > (i was only more tired but i couldn't sleep). The only thing that helped me > in that period was your capsules (thanks again!!) and some good homegrown > :-)) > Oh yes, i almost forgot, in that period i had an eating disorder; i could > eat all day all night and in about a month i've gained about 15kg ;-)))). > In the last 2 weeks i'm sleeping like a baby and i'm eating normally again, > and i don't have any withdrawal symptoms at all. > Hopefully in about 2-3 weeks i'll have my own apartment (some paperwork > still needs to be done) so such things as somebody waiting for my reply for > two weeks won't happen again. > How are you doing? > I really hope everything's alright with you and your family. I have such a > nice memory of that 8 days i've spent at your place, hopefully i'll catch > some time soon and come to visit you all !!! > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Best wishes to you and your > family!!!!!!! > > the capsules are iboga root bark of a high quality. > > That's it for now. > Sara Glatt > > > > > > > > Just to clarify I meant 2 weeks on sao's at least then detox fallowed >> by 2 weeks of rest and rehab.? Ibogaine does help you get through a >> LOT of the withdrawal and cravings but it's still no cakewalk.???I >> also found rhodiola rosea to be a great help for PAWS, with mental >> energy, mood and physical endurance.. it's worth having around post >> detox..? Seems to work with the majority of folks though a few seem to >> not notice it at all. >> >> On 3/3/10, sasha victory wrote: >>> We treated a guy for suboxone. MId 50s. Great guy. He went onto short >>> acting opiates before his treatment. It was still rougher than say a >>> heroin or an oxy detox. >>> >>> His email is robertstnfrd at yahoo.com >>> >>> This was over a year ago. I'm not sure how he is doing now. Tell him >>> sasha sent you and sends him love! >>> >>> >>> S >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Stefan Stuck wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mikki Lynne" >>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:06:24 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada >>>> Mountain >>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. >>>> >>>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has >>>> undergone a treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around >>>> about this for quite a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of >>>> good info & opinions, but have yet to talk with someone who's actually >>>> been thru it themselves. >>>> >>>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the jump >>>> right from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. >>>> Successful or not. >>>> >>>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, >>>> support, laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH >>>> when you wake up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings >>>> of an affection for chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends >>>> the cheesy award-ceremony speech... But seriously, so grateful. >>>> >>>> Love! >>>> Mikki >>>> >>>> >>>>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) >>>>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>>> >>>> I was on methadone for about a year and heard about suboxone.? Most >>>> doctors said I could get off of it very easily without much >>>> withdrawl, so I figured I would give it a try.? I have been on >>>> suboxone for 2 years now.? Started off at 24mg I beleive and am >>>> currently down to 1-2 mg a day, but I still can't get off of it.? I >>>> have withdrawls every time I try that I can't get through.? The >>>> withdrawls definately aren't as severe as with methadone, but they >>>> are bad enough where I still can't get off of it.? I am trying to >>>> get money together for an ibogaine treatment so I can finally be off >>>> of this crap! >>>> >>>> Stefan >>>> >>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >>>> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) >>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) >>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- >> > > > >? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) >? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xxmikkixx at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 16:58:48 2010 From: xxmikkixx at gmail.com (Mikki Lynne) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:58:48 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. In-Reply-To: <849543.89097.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <849543.89097.qm@web84004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for that sis- I am thinkin of switching to pods asap anyway. At this point I know I can get through with just ultram, no sub- no problem. And trust myself to "dose responsibly" with SAOs. Also am a very fast metabolizer. Many times in the past I have dropped clean within 24 hours of taking oxycodone or H. Hopefully that metabolism will be of help with this too... On Mar 4, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Sister wrote: > just fyi..... I had urines from my neuro MD after I got off subs > weekly... I jumped from a smiget dose that I could not even > measure.... took three weeks to have clean urine from sub.. Just > food for thought. > > --- On Wed, 3/3/10, James Forristal wrote: > > From: James Forristal > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Another suboxone question, etc. > To: "The Ibogaine List" > Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 7:16 PM > > I detoxed from suboxone and only gave myself 3 days on an SAO. It was > ruff compared to my methadone detox with just 48 hours abstinence. > I'd suggest at least 2 weeks off the subs. That stuff hangs in those > receptors like super glue and the PAwS syndrome (though do-able) is no > beuno! > > I also found that each day without the bupe my tolerance to the SAO > got lower and lower.. So be mindful and don't over do the SAO's your > detox will be easier in the long run. > > > > On 3/3/10, cal que wrote: > > Can't speak from experience so far as ibogaine for suboxone - but > I'm glad > > to hear you plan on switching before you dose iboga. It seems to > be the way > > to go if one can and also if you're bumping down in the days or > weeks > > beforehand it draws you into the actual experience more, and I > think it > > makes a difference. Best of luck to you Mikki... > > > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:38 PM, junkboy wrote: > > > >> I did a treatment to get off of sub... > >> i tapered down to 2mg a day and thats as low as i could go... it > went > >> super!! worked perfect!!! > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Mikki Lynne > wrote: > >> > >>> Has anyone here either personally or know someone else who has > undergone > >>> a > >>> treatment to get off suboxone? I've been poking around about > this for > >>> quite > >>> a while & have talked to several ppl with lots of good info & > opinions, > >>> but > >>> have yet to talk with someone who's actually been thru it > themselves. > >>> > >>> The time for my treatment will be soon- dont plan to make the > jump right > >>> from suboxone, but would like to talk to someone who has. > Successful or > >>> not. > >>> > >>> P.S. Thank you everyone!! You all have been indispensable love, > support, > >>> laughs, and knowledge these past months (special note to HH when > you wake > >>> up, for almost single-handedly inspiring the beginnings of an > affection > >>> for > >>> chemistry in me- miracle worker lol). And now ends the cheesy > >>> award-ceremony > >>> speech... But seriously, so grateful. > >>> > >>> Love! > >>> Mikki > >>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > >>> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > >>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > >> > >> > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlspence12 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 17:55:11 2010 From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:55:11 -0600 Subject: [Ibogaine] Today is as good as any, on my way! In-Reply-To: <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <36088.15347.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <418098E7-0E89-4B70-98A1-B8D8931D4C2C@gmail.com> Hey, Hopeful I am sorry for my dick head self that i can be at times.. its not who i truly am... I am a much better person, then people really believe me to be, both on the list and in my so called fucked up life in my idiotic river town, I call planet Cripton...(at times anyway) However, some times some thing majackle happens here every once in a great, great blue ass moon!, and it actually make life worth living a little while longer here.... I tell u, my home town is crazy..... I hate it here, but at the same time I wonder if I moved away for real.. That i really would miss this pile of crap I call my river town home, full of NA and AA bull shit....(not that its never helped nobody, because i have seen it help some people too..., it helped my crazy, nut job of a step brother, who I feel even though he's my step brother, he my brother too..., step or not.) It not as bad as it could be though.. But at times, its just un real... it wouldn't be so bad if i wouldn't have got this crazy ass illness so young.... I mean, there are worse things.. But its been pretty bad... Shit people just don't talk about when its over.. I use to blame IC people who went on with their life's afterward and not speak about it or really try to help people who are still struggling with the crazy ass, nut job, crazy as a box full of rock, disease.... BUT NOT ANYMORE!! I myself will never be able to go on as life once was before my illness, there is no way in hell I will be able to do that.... Not after suffering 13 long fucked up, crazy ass, suck in my apt looking at 4 walls in end stage cancer fucked up pain, looking like a pre, pro bodybuilder, you never guess in a fucken million crazy ass years I fucken had this shit.. That's what makes the crazy ass disease even more crazy!! I've seen some of the most beautiful women in the world and they happen to have IC, and you've never fucken know it!! People think you can look at a person and fucken tell, YOU FUCKEN CAN'T!! The only time you could really tell something was wrong with me was when i got deathly thin, but then everybody in my idiotic town thought, "drugs" people are idiots.. I resent the urologist's, all of them!! all of them were worthless!! telling me to stay off pain meds, MY FUCKEN GOD PEOPLE!! I mean, my end goal is to one day "maybe" be opiate free, but I have fucken no, mother fucken Idea how long that's going to take? I do diet better then i ever have... I eat all organic when i can, I take supplements(which i am just lucky as hell my step dad saved my mother, which in turn saved me) The older I get the more I respect my step dad.. He saved my ADD ass mother... She is a beautiful person, inside and out.. She was worth saving, she was worthy of it.. She really is... She got a heart of gold... That's where any good I got comes from, it comes from her.... I didn't get it from my ass hole father I'll tell you that.. Yea, but that heart of gold thing for me didn't work so well near the drug game people... yea... that's why i had to get away. I felt like I am better off never seeing a another human again then being around the fuck head in my idiotic town.. I mean, I don't fully understand it at times... I never in my life seen that type of shit... unbelievable.. I mean I have been fucked up before, I am talking fucked, but thing cleaning people out thing... I just never could quite understand that coldness of people... We are talking, just clean mother fuckers out... I am sorry, "I don't get it?" Yea, I got my temper from my ass hole father.... you don't want to fuck with my father when he's pissed off... Believe me, u don't... I believe my father is caple of murder, if over pissed off... In fact, there's not a doubt in my mind he is.. Me and him are done.. My step mother is fucked up.. One word from her and i will fall over dead.... One word, and bam, I be dead.. I don't want to talk about that... Its too much for me to deal with, so i just don't...... I don't wish to depress people here, that's not what this place is for.. its a place of change(for the +) and a place of hope. Back to "hope" I am sorry If act like I unbelievable nut job......... for i am really not as bad as people believe... that's in "real life" and "out side real life or reality" I just have been dealing with shit that mother fuckers have hung their self over... However, I am a soldier, and will not let this place "indiana" get the best of me....... its not all bad... But at times, i truly hate this state...... This is it folks... this state is where is all happened at..... "The civil War" in the I believe 1800's, I can't fucking remember dates of history??? Sometimee, I can't believe the civil war happened?? But then i think of our two boardering states, Indiana and KY, and how everybody acts here.. and then i go.. oh yea.... that's how it all happened....... its like stepping back into time here... I at times feel as if this town is stuck in time or something... just the way people "think" here. the iqorance, and we are talking people who spose to have seen some shit.. and I am like, WTF..... Where the fuck are you guys from?? u guys are fucking paramedics?? What the fuck?? and how long have u been on the job for?? you got to be kidding me?? U people can't be real? yea, This is where the battle lines were hard drawn..... Indiana and KY.... a lot of young poor boys died at that KY boarder line crossing into Indiana, to this day u still and feel the heat between the two states.. I never believed in that shit, The whole KY hate Indiana thing.. and vice vera.. Crazy... But let we sort of get along type thing... nuts.. What can I say.... America, land of the crazy idiots with alcohol. tobacco, and of course fire arms......... How in the world can you call your self a america without those 3 things?? God bless you Hopeful.. I am sorry for being out of touch with the list at times.. I am just going through a lot... its nothing that might not pass.... I got a chance.... There are people out there who don't even have that... so i am extremely lucky... I just get so tried of the battle with my disease and the stigma with being "on meds" like I am a Jew or something... a nigger... a pile of shit, less then human.. at least that's how i am made to feel here.. its just ingrained here... it just is pre programmed in people here bad... I mean its everywhere, but here is feels especially bad.... My hope is that, far the most part, I will one day not need the pain meds for my bladder disease, and then i will be able to withdraw off, at THE VERY LEAST THE "PAIN MEDS" BECAUSE THEY ARE LOOKED AT THE WORST HERE.. LIKE YOU SHOULD BE DEAD IF YOUR ON PAIN MEDS HERE... ITS SICKING... IT MAKES ME SICK.. OH WELL, THIS WHOLE TOWN MAKES ME ILL... FUCK IT... THE SHOW MUST GO ON... MAYBE ONE DAY I WON'T, LIKE I SAID, AT LEAST NEED THE PAIN MEDS, OR AT LEAST NOT AS MUCH AS I STILL DO NOW... I AM MADE TO FEEL LIK E SHOULD JUST DIE OR SOMETHING HERE.. IT NOT THE FUNEST FEELING IN THE WORLD... AGAIN, OH WELL, I GUESS I WILL LIVE... FOR NOW... PISS ON THIS IDIOTIC TOWN.. THIS WHOLE TOWN CAN BLOW THE FUCK UP FOR ALL I MOTHER FUCKING CARE.. THE WHOLE FUCKING TOWN... AND ITS IQORANT, IDIOT ASS... I AM SORRY ABOUT THE LAST PAST.. THE RANT. AS YOU CAN SEE.. I LOVE ME TOWN.. THE ONLY THING THAT'S GOOD ABOUT IS, ITS SO IQORANT I COULD GROW IBOGA OR ANY OTHER, OTHER THEN MARIJUANA AND NO IDIOT WOULD KNOW.. NOT EVEN A DEA AGENT LOOKING STRAIGHT AT IT.. I DON'T EVEN LIKE MARIJUANA THAT MUCH AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO LEGAL FOR MEDICAL USE... IT NEEDS TO BE LEGAL PERIOD END OF STORY... BUT I DON'T SEE THAT HERE ANYTIME SOON.. NOT IN INDIANA, WHEN I LOOK AROUND, ITS NOT HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHY THESE TWO STATES IN, AND KY WERE WHERE A LOT OF THE ACTING HAPPEN IN THE CIVIL WAR.... IDOITS... Back to you hopeful.. u have great insight in to trying to help people solve their own problems... don't ever lose that about u... or because of something idiotic I said... James Forst. has it too... I am just going to take time out of my day to thank God, the list, and everybody watching in TV land, THAT ITS NOT AS BAD AS IT "COULD BE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" THAT WHAT I AM HAPPY FOR "TODAY!!" AND THAT I AM "NOT" MARRIED AND "NO" KIDS!!!! THANK GOD I DON'T HAVE A F'EN WIFE!!!! TO TAKE THE FUCK CARE OF!!! THANK GOD!!! THAT'S THE ONE THING I DID RIGHT!!! "NOT" HAVE KIDS!!! I THOUGHT ABOUT IT BEFORE HAND!! AND DID NOT DO LIKE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE DO!! "I THOUGHT ABOUT IT" SOMETIMES BETTER THEN THE GIRL! EVEN AT A YOUNG AGE!! I WAS TOLD, YOU GO OUT THERE AND BLANK... GUESS WHAT, ITS ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YOURS!!! HERE YOU GO!! THAT'S THE ONLY THING I LISTEN TOO....... THAT AND LOOK BOTH WAYS BEFORE CROSSING THE STREET, WHICH I STILL DO TO THIS DAY!! AND IF YOU SEE A GUN, ASSUME IT "IS" "LOADED" AND READY TO FIRE.... AND ROCK THE SPOT.. I DON'T UNDERSTAND PEOPLE YOU DON'T CHECK THE CHAMBER... I CHECK IT UP TO 3-4 TIMES JUST TO MAKE SURE... JUST OUT OF HABBIT ALONE... I DON'T UNDERSTAND PEOPLE SHOOTING THEM SELFS BY MISTAKE? AT LEAST I DON'T "PERSONALLY" BUT I KNOW IT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN.. EVEN TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEIR GUNS WELL... BUT I KNOW IT DOES HAPPEN.. I don't know. I am glad to hear u are doing well hopeful. Hopefully one day I will be able to get where I want to be with the meds, at the very least opiates, that's going to be a tough one for me with my disease... not impossible, but hard is the un statement of the decade... All i can do it keep hope alive... thanks for your hopefulness. you seem like a cool person.... I've wanted to get LSD, but it either was never the right time.. or it fell through.. and I don't go out and look for shit anymore because after the fuckers I was around.. nome of them could be trusted to know the color paint on my fucken car.. I mean, it was that bad, about 5 years ago... I not seem or ever want to hear from, or see scum bags like that again.. Its really hard to find cool people here, that are cool, but won't clean u the fuck out... I am parnoid every since my non shooting galllery friends fucked the living shit out of me.. We are not talking, here a fuck, thee a fuck, every where a fuck, fuck.. We are talking mother fucking taking it straight up the mother fucking ass!! doggy style!!! ALL THE WAY UP THE ASS!! TALKING ABOUT FULL, ASS CHECKS SPEAD APART!!!! BOTH CHEEKS!! I JUST CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE OF THAT SHIT HAPPENING.. I JUST DON'T GOT IT.. JUST DON'T.. SO, I BEEN A LONER EVER SINCE.... SOM