[Ibogaine] My report/story revisited

Helpful Hopeful helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com
Sat Feb 20 11:31:19 EST 2010


I am sorry for anyone who gave you a hard time in the chat.  I have IP blockers that blocked that portion of the webpage, so I only watched the stream.  

I enjoyed seeing your presentation, and especially enjoyed hearing how you stuck with the difficult patient, allowing him to discover what was wrong deep inside.  If more people were as compassionate as you, I think iboga could be much further along in the world, and in helping those of us with addictions.  

Some people probably feel threatened by you, but don't take it to heart.  You are doing GOOD, and some of us out here who saw your presentation thought it was great information.  As a matter of fact, I am going to have my sitter watch your presentation, so she can be better prepared for what I will be going through.  I don't think I'll be a difficult case (3rd time taking iboga), as I have learned to navigate my mindscape on psychedelics at a very young age and have used them as tools to make myself better, ever since my first couple journeys with LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms..  

So I say keep up the good work, and don't sweat any of the bickering, it's usually a persons fears surfacing and their own insecurities they are trying to push onto others.  I have learned that this is a coping mechanism by many people, and it removes blame from themselves and projects it onto others, of which the person with the anger directed at them rarely deserves.

So thank you for your presentation, and again, don't worry about the negative remarks made to you, as there are still a bunch of people that need to grow up a bit, before the iboga will really show them the truth..

Bless you for all you do in the struggle!

HH


--- On Sat, 2/20/10, fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] My report/story revisited
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 2:00 AM
> Thanks Randy, you can give me a hug
> whenever you want! I remember that revelation you had at
> Dana's about the Jesus symbolism possibly correlating to
> Howard's death- that was pretty interesting since he was
> like the father of the movement.. And you sure RIPPED on
> that harmonica! I don't think I'll ever be that
> good, but I'll practice.
> 
>  
> Getting to see you, all your kind words, and all the
> positive feedback from the audience after my presentation
> I'd say just almost made up for the *ahem* person that
> went about like an idiot trying to trash me online while I
> was speaking. (Why act cowardly and hide behind a
> screenname?) Ridiculous and offensive, since that person was
> pretty off about everything they said. A few of my previous
> patients happened to be watching at the same time and were
> pretty offended themselves! 
> 
>  
> Eh, I don't understand this whole
> personal vendetta thing that people have- Not speaking
> about what happened to me, but just in general. Randy,
> you've really got it right about your idea to set the
> damn differences aside- If we treat people and do it
> successfully, and the patients are satisfied, then why
> should there be any silly bickering about whatever other
> personal issues? It's the exact opposite of what Howard
> would have wanted. For example, regarding what happened
> during my talk, I have over a year and half's
> additional experience than the person who decided to go
> about on a random online tirade during my presentation, and
> what was said about me was just flat out wrong, but I'm
> not going to announce to the world who-said-what, or
> whatever personal details about that person, because
> it's pointless in this movement which is supposed to be
> about community and helping people as best we can. The only
> reason I even bring this up is to defend myself if any of
> you were watching that chat feed live- If anyone who saw it
> would like to discuss it with me, just send me an
> email.
> 
>  
> On another topic, I think we ought to be a little more
> conscious that "after ibogaine, people tend to talk
> about their personal issues and/or something that is
> bothering them." Now *perhaps* people ought not do that
> on the List (lol, Randy)- Well, actually of course people
> shouldn't do that on the list, but part of my conference
> discussion was "Do Not Blame The Patient" for how
> they act during an experience and in the several days
> afterwards- If you're a provider, you simply can't
> blame a patient for how they act during and shortly after
> their experience with probably the strongest psychedelic
> known (especially because you gave it to them and/or agreed
> to watch them)! I was speaking in terms of difficult
> experiences, since it has been a "somewhat" common
> occurrence to blame the patient if they have a difficult or
> bizarre experience- Rather than think about what *you* could
> have done to make things better for the patient, blaming
> them for the negative experience is the easier option
> and doesn't force you to think about your own level of
> skill- I've heard too many stories from people being
> told that they're just "messed up" or
> "can't be helped" for whatever reason after
> having a difficult/bizarre experience (of course not
> everyone does things like this, but I included it in the
> talk because of the multiple stories my patients have told
> me of this happening to them- I can vouch for those people
> that they weren't "just too messed up" to be
> helped because of the successful treatments they later had
> with me.) But back onto the topic, I've noticed that a
> person will undergo treatment, and then may go online the
> next day (or to whatever expressive outlet, though the
> internet is quite common) and talk about the experience; in
> turn they might also talk about problems in their life or
> disagreements with people, or other personal matters (hehe
> Randy..). Of course, normally in a totally sober and
> non-tripping state, the person most likely wouldn't go
> about doing such things.. but they're still under the
> influence of an incredibly powerful psychedelic and are
> still prone to doing things they wouldn't normally do.
> Can we really get "that" mad at people for doing
> that, when it's well known to be an after-effect of
> ibogaine? (to want to express things that are bothering you,
> the experience, personal things, etc.)?
> 
>  
> But the question is how to handle things like this,
> since I've noticed they do happen quite a bit (and other
> people subsequently get angry about it of course), as well
> as how to prevent this.. As we know, people who undergo
> ibogaine often want to express themselves, but can also be
> forgetful afterwards- You might tell someone "Now
> remember not to talk about names or anything personal if you
> go online" but the person might just as easily forget
> that an hour later! I think we need to be mindful of this,
> especially before getting incredibly pissed off if a patient
> mentions some kind of personal issue or disagreement
> publicly, or whatever it is. What I've found to be
> helpful is to repeately mention the privacy concepts to
> the person as well as monitor their first few times on the
> computer if possible- Or if that's not possible,
> I've found mentioning repeatedly that you would like to
> read through anything the person wants to post online
> (before they post it) as a good way to "filter"
> content to meet privacy standards. I've had to do this
> before, and it has been a major help- and most patients
> aren't offended by it at all, from what I have noticed,
> and are completely willing to comply with privacy.. they
> simply seem to "forget" what is and isn't a
> good idea to write online due to the aftereffects of
> ibogaine.
> 
>  
> I've noticed that this concept falls in tandem
> with many other issues in treatment.. Rather than
> "blaming" the patient, analyzing our own skill
> and ability to handle the situation appears much more
> conductive to a positive treatment outcome. The case
> scenario I gave in my presentation was of a young man I
> worked with who warned me of a previous treatment he
> underwent at a clinic which traumatized him and resulted in
> diagnosed PTSD afterwards. Sure enough, issues related to
> the PTSD resurfaced during the experience with me and he
> complained for 96 hours straight that he was "being
> tortured," was "re-traumatized" by the
> experience, was "permanently damaged" by the
> experience, said his life was over, complained of thinking
> "dark" or tormenting thoughts, cursed repeatedly,
> and he appeared to be having a nightmarish experience from
> my perspective. During his prior "traumatizing"
> ibogaine experience, he was told that he should give up hope
> of recovery because he was too mentally disturbed to be
> helped by ibogaine- and a few other people told me
> after his treatment with me that many other providers
> would have simply given up on him and told him to go home.
> However, I wasn't willing to blame the situation on him,
> someone under my care! After doing everything possible to
> help during the four days, and being supportive,
> constantly available to him, sympathetic, and responsive to
> his cries of discomfort, he finally called me to his bed and
> revealed that he had discovered the source of his PTSD! The
> following morning, he said, "It's good then if you
> come across another person who was traumatized like I was-
> Then you can tell them that it will go away."
> There's still more work involved in his recovery, but a
> huge hurdle of the root causes behind the PTSD were
> discovered, and his trauma symptoms went into remission
> after that. We both agreed that what made much of the
> difference was that I didn't give up on him or blame
> him, or deem him as "too disturbed"; also he
> stated that my being an active caregiver to him (rather than
> someone passive in the next room, asleep and unresponsive,
> or telling him to shut up while he was singing along to
> music at 3am) made a big difference as well compared to his
> prior experience. (I know, it might sound a little strange,
> but people have told patients to shut up, or cursed that
> they're trying to sleep when the patient asks for help,
> etc.)
> 
>  
> But I mean to emphasize the concept of attempting to
> learn and increase our own abilities as caregivers with
> weird situations- from the bizarre situation of PTSD to
> people accidentally typing not-private things online
> immediately after their experience- instead of getting
> angry, or blaming the person, which is not helpful at all.
>  I think, "Rather than get mad, get intelligent."
> What could I have done better to prevent this situation? Or
> what could I have done better to minimize discomfort for my
> patient? How could I have exercised better methods to make
> the treatment more positive and successful? In general, what
> could we have done differently? Sometimes it seems that
> after we pass a certain point of knowledge, we forget that
> there are always new things to learn- especially because
> every patient is different.. at least I've never had two
> that were the same yet!
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:17 PM,
> Jessica Blackburn <jessrhea0 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Good to see you too! So
> happy to hear your last tx went well! We have had you on our
> mind :) I hate snow as well, I feel for anyone dealing with
> the crazy weather out there.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 19, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Sister wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Chic.... good to see you. 
> Did I ever share how I hate SNOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jessica
> Blackburn <jessrhea0 at gmail.com>
> To: The
> Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> 
> Sent: Thu,
> February 18, 2010 7:03:03 PM
> Subject: Re:
> [Ibogaine] My report/story revisited
> 
> 
> I hope my grand entrance "Just seeing if this
> works" was well received. My name is Jessica, I work
> with Sasha in Mexico. Here to listen, learn, and share
> knowledge. :)
> 
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 3:50 PM, sivabud at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> > It works
> > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jessica Blackburn <jessrhea0 at gmail.com>
> 
> > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:48:45 
> > To: The Ibogaine List<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] My report/story revisited
> 
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