[Ibogaine] ibogaine detox in USA?

James Forristal psychonaut101 at gmail.com
Wed Sep 30 11:54:28 EDT 2009


When the fractals come out to play and finite and infinite become
transcendentally obvious singularities inside the right and left hemispheres
of your brain, you've reached a good dose!  :P

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> The part with the shits is when your tripping your balls off
> siting on the toilet with diarrhea is not that much fun.  And
> I have heard of people making a mess of themselves.  It
> can put a damper on things.  But man, it sounds like a
> wonderful thing to experience.  I have never taken it in
> any way, tell me do the wall breath on it.  When the walls
> breath and the colors flow together, oh man  that;s what I
> love to see and experience.
>
> Nice talking to ya,
>
>   - JIM
>
> --- On *Wed, 9/30/09, Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine detox in USA?
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 2:52 AM
>
>
> Have either one of you ever done synthetic or purified DMT? I've never
> tried Aya before in non purified form, but I've done the DMT caps at least
> 20 times so far, it looks like a kind of beige fluffy crystal clump, it's
> very pretty when you open the caps and pour it out on a mirror :-) A lot of
> friends are into DMT for the same reasons I am and was mentioned in this
> thread, because it's something you can take, get blasted out of your skull
> and trip balls, but it's over in 4 hours and you can crash and then wake up
> and do school the next day. LSD when it's not crap does not make that
> possible, on shitty club doses it may be whatev, but doing up 2 or 3 hits of
> the decent quality L that's been back for a few years in liquid form and
> speaking only for myself I'm going and going and going when I can look at
> the clock and see what time it is back in the real world, it's 12 maybe 14
> hours later, then I can't get to sleep without toking up tons of herb, after
> all that I'm hella trashed for another day after, so we're talking a really
> well planned weekend that starts on Friday night with L and around Monday
> morning being back to normal enough to wake up and make it to class and deal
> and that's still a stretch.
>
> DMT makes it much simpler to open those doors into other worlds, check it
> out and then make it back in time to deal with the world we're in the next
> day :-)
>
> I know this is off topic for strictly ibo but I'd be interested in hearing
> from some of the more experienced trippers who may have done both synthetic
> DMT and ayahuscau, would you share how the effects are different? I mean if
> you've done the purified vs the boiling shaman's pot versions, are you
> getting anything out of it you wouldn't get by doing up 2 caps of purified
> instead of one? I've never hurled on DMT, feel like I'm missing out on
> something special with all this talk of throwing up and having the shits ;-)
> Does that lead to greater enlightenment when tripping balls? :-)
>
> I'm guessing you bros are doing different magic mushrooms then I've done.
> Everything I've ever tried which peeps have passed along as being this great
> shroom experience has never done nothing for me past maybe a 30 minute light
> show without even major head stuff happening, maybe a +2 on the Shulgin
> scale at best, the synthetic DMT blasts me right into +3 every time and
> let's me make it back to earth for class the next day.
>
> peace
> -broc
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogamail@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>  I have never puked from ayahuasca.  I have come close to puking from
>> syrian rue seeds though, those things are noxious.  But they are cheaper
>> than B caapi, cheap as dirt really.  I think tea made from B caapi is
>> actually pretty easy to swallow and hold down.  I don't use any admixture
>> plants and use an extract instead when I want the light so I had always
>> figured the upset stomach was due to the admixtures like P Viridis.
>> Ayahuasca has given me the runs though.  I've always been able to make it to
>> the bathroom in time but I have heard of people not making it too.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> James Forristal wrote:
>>
>> Pcilocybe mushrooms and Syrian rue, known as pcilohuasca is a very intense
>> experience visually and emotionally, it's also a rather long experience.  2
>> grams of mushrooms acts like 2 or 3 grams on steroids when harmala alkaloids
>> are added in.  Pcilocin is the 4 HO-DMT, it is also the active alkaloid in
>> the brain, as psylocybin breaks down into pcilocin when ingested.  The key
>> here is that Psylocybin is much more stable, so it's the majority of what
>> actually makes it into the body and creates the trip as it's converted into
>> pcilocin.  This is also one reason Harmaline and harmine increase the
>> potency and effect of mushrooms, they protect the pcilocin in the mushroom
>> from being destroyed by the stomach, so you get much more of both molecules
>> potential power passing through your stomach into your blood stream.
>>
>> The reason Ayahuasca is purgative for the most part is due to shamans
>> adding to much of the caapi vine or Syrian rue into the mixtures, you only
>> need to much of the plant alkaloids to protect the DMT from the MAO's in
>> your stomach.  The thing is high amounts of harmaline and harmine are also
>> psychoactive but at these levels they also make you puke and see strange
>> dancing lights and radiant vibrations.. so the people making ayahuasca like
>> to use the ayahuasca vine at levels in which it is purgative.
>>
>> It's good to have a puke bucket near by but in most cases if you do need
>> to purge from the other end you can make it a few yards to a safe space to
>> go.  Unless you really really overdue to Syrian rue/caapi, in this case you
>> will feel basically poisoned and ataxic and getting anywhere on your feet
>> kinda sucks.
>>
>> Ayahuasca is technically just B. caapi and the dmt, iboga alks containing
>> taberneamontana plants, datura and tobacco are just admixtures according to
>> the tribes of the amazon.  Caapi alone in high enough doses is very intense
>> but I wouldn't call it psychedelic, just intense, bazaar and hard on your
>> body.  When large amounts of harmala alkaloids are mixed with tryptamines
>> and the like they synergise and take on a whole different experience.
>> Though if the harmines are just used in low enough doses to protect the
>> typtamines from MAO action in your stomach and brain, they just intensify
>> and elongate their effect.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:21 AM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=calaquendi420@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, Jim...have a sitter around for sure if you plan on an
>>> ayahuasca...many of my friends (that means both of 'em) have recently gotten
>>> in to mescaline cacti and these guys don't mess around. I consider myself
>>> well rounded and experienced, probably more than most, but man...I'm
>>> sensitive to cactus. I would love to do an ayahuasca if I could pull these
>>> turds away from cactus long enough. Ayahuasca itself doesn't technically
>>> contain DMT...this gets mixed up alot - many people, even learned in this,
>>> default 'ayahuasca' to include any number of DMT add mixture plants. Plain
>>> and simple, Ayahuasca is the VINE...Banisteriopsis Caapi...and man is it
>>> gooooood. In fact ayahuasca translates to ; "vine of souls" or "vine of the
>>> dead" but in most cases there are DMT containing add mixture plants
>>> involved. These are what produce the deepest visions and hallucinations,
>>> however, it differs qualitatively from smoked pure DMT. If you've ever done
>>> 'magic' mushrooms, you have done a form of DMT. Psilocybin (the main
>>> alkaloid in most shrooms) is 4-HO,DMT, so there are very distinct
>>> similarities. You can even do some syrian rue with mushrooms, it's
>>> convenient and the effects are very similar to ayahuasca. Yage is tricky
>>> business - I've been involved in sessions where several people took
>>> identical doses of identical brews and only one or two 'got off'...this
>>> wants to 'feel us out' as much as we want to learn about it. it is an
>>> amazing and beautiful tool - but very very powerful. You should be in the
>>> company of loved ones.
>>> Good luck friend!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>
>>>> It seems that there are a lot of people who like it.  And from
>>>> what I hear they must like for it doesn't taste all that good.
>>>> Then you got the double purge thing.  But I never took it, if
>>>> it is DMT, I would be interested but I also hear you should
>>>> not do it alone.  I've never done it which is why I may want to
>>>> think twice but chances are I would give it a try.  I always
>>>> wanted to try DMT and X but I really don't know anyone
>>>> who deals in it.  It is kind of funny dealing with my buddy's
>>>> son and one grandson.  These tiny kids that were running
>>>> around are now six feet and 200 lbs with kids running
>>>> around.  Tell me it does purge you  both ways, is this
>>>> right.  Can you always make it to the commode?   I have
>>>> read about it several times there is something like
>>>> Minnosa, Syrun Rue, and a couple of other things they
>>>> have it listed on Erowid.  I really don't use drugs other
>>>> than weed and few meds, and then according to directions.
>>>> I am not one to fool myself into thinking that because a
>>>> doc writes it it is safe.  But a good psychedelic is very
>>>> good for getting out clutter.  I used to refer to it as aligning
>>>> the chukkas (wow did my dictionary spell chukkas ),  But
>>>> it seems them days are so long gone.  Yea, the sixties
>>>> was another time and place - another world.  There were
>>>> the real people the phonies, the curious but it was the
>>>> people that finally ended the war.  At first the demonstrations
>>>> was just those communist rabble rousers then the main
>>>> stream and it snowballed.  And this doesn't have anything
>>>> to do with ayahuasca, don;t know how it got in there.  But
>>>> I might try a medium dose if there we one or two people around.
>>>>
>>>> Talk to ya later,
>>>>
>>>>   - JIM
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Mon, 9/28/09, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=psychonaut101@gmail.com>
>>>> >* wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=psychonaut101@gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine detox in USA?
>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>>> >
>>>> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 6:03 PM
>>>>
>>>> Ayahuasca is dose dependent in it's effect like any other psychoactive
>>>> substance.  The nicer side of ayahuasca is that you can have a very intense
>>>> experience and still come down in 4 to 5 hours, this is not the case with
>>>> LSD.  I've had high dose LSD experiences that took half way into the next
>>>> day before I could even try to sleep, then a few hours after that before
>>>> sleep actually occured.
>>>>
>>>> Intense cleaning without the long duration in effect seems like a plus
>>>> in my book!
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> HI Matt,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yea, I know a lot of DIYs out there.  It was close to two years
>>>>> that I did my home thing and I still feel it is affecting me somewhat.
>>>>> I really do not think it hurts to relive the experience every two,
>>>>> three,
>>>>> ten years, whenever your mind says  hey, I need a recharge.  I am
>>>>> glad it worked for depression.  I am bothered by it sometimes but
>>>>> can not take the SSRI types.  The doc should tell you when he hands
>>>>> you the Rx that SSRIs are habit forming.  Several people on this forum
>>>>> had a problem getting off them.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say >>
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that every so often a powerful experience from ayahuasca
>>>>> or iboga seems necessary to really clear out the emotional cellar so to
>>>>> speak but at the same time I am not as fond of those really powerful
>>>>> experiences as I used to be. <<<<<
>>>>>
>>>>>  I never took ayahuasca and might be afraid to try it.  But I think a
>>>>> good
>>>>> psychedelic trip either LSD, Mushrooms or whatever is good for ya
>>>>> every now and then and you could say the same thing for Ibo.  Yea,
>>>>> cleans
>>>>> out the clutter that is a good way to put it.  I think as time goes on
>>>>> we all
>>>>> improve or grow and as you grow and advance you need less and less
>>>>> of the, I hate to say drug but they are drugs, so as you  grow you take
>>>>> need the drugs less and less, you no longer need the powerful ones.  Of
>>>>> course we all have our opinions and beliefs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take Care,
>>>>>
>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Mon, 9/28/09, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogamail@gmail.com>
>>>>> >* wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogamail@gmail.com>
>>>>> >
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine detox in USA?
>>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>>>> >
>>>>>  Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 3:20 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never been to an ibo treatment facility.  I self treated at
>>>>> home.  I have heard both good and bad things about most of the treatment
>>>>> providers out there at this point.  If someone asked me I would say just to
>>>>> contact various places and talk at length with the people there and then go
>>>>> with your instinct.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the depression, yes it worked.  The message for me was that I
>>>>> stuff my feelings, especially feelings of sadness.  I have had this same
>>>>> message impressed on me several times since both by iboga and ayahuasca but
>>>>> I am still sort of stuck as to how to fix it.  I like to think I am making
>>>>> progress though.  The problem is that every so often a powerful experience
>>>>> from ayahuasca or iboga seems necessary to really clear out the emotional
>>>>> cellar so to speak but at the same time I am not as fond of those really
>>>>> powerful experiences as I used to be.  Or to put it another way, it seems
>>>>> like they become necessary more often than I actually want to do them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Hadey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Matt,
>>>>>
>>>>> You can do a methadone detox without first going on a
>>>>> shorter acting opiate, yes it can be done but like you
>>>>> say it complicates things.  I think Gwen wants to detox
>>>>> with as little Ibo as possible and with as little visions
>>>>> as possible or as mild experience as possible.  In other
>>>>> words she wants off of drugs and is not interested in the
>>>>> Bwiti culture or rituals and not really interested in having
>>>>> visions or talking to her dead relatives.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hated the met clinic so bad.  I
>>>>> was honest once and told them I was using and needed
>>>>> some kind of help. I thought that was what they were there
>>>>> for.  Well they took away my take homes - yea last time I tell
>>>>> them anything.  I was mad, I mean I have a problem, was
>>>>> honest about it and this is what I get.  Since then I gave
>>>>> them water with a little coffee for color and a drop of
>>>>> methadone in the bottle for urine tests.  It worked like a charm.
>>>>> Never told the truth again.  From what I understand they have
>>>>> different tests and may even watch you pee now.  It was
>>>>> 20 years ago or so.
>>>>>
>>>>> With met 74 mg is not that much in a way, but it another way
>>>>> it is a hell of a lot like when you try to detox.  I remember the
>>>>> first time I tried to detox from met 20 mg cold turkey, couldn't
>>>>> believe the suffering.  I couldn't do it.  You said you did not
>>>>> really have any cravings after your detox - that is great.  One
>>>>> dose and your good for life - can't beat that.  As you know many
>>>>> people need a booster after 6 to 9 months or so.  I know that
>>>>> I needed a booster between the 6 to 9 month period.  It is nice
>>>>> if you do not need a booster for that can be you done for good.
>>>>> Tapering is always a good idea but it can be very time consuming.
>>>>> That is why I mentioned we could help her more if we had more facts
>>>>> like how much is used and how long and when she is comfortable
>>>>> I believe she will let us know  You got to remember this is her first
>>>>> time
>>>>> writing and she really does not know all these things.  It is also good
>>>>> to talk to several people and get different opinions and options.
>>>>> Your 2 cents is welcome, a little added info gives a better all round
>>>>> picture and can help a person get an idea of what to expect.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's one reason I tell people it is not a hallucinogenic like LSD,
>>>>> I can see a person who is on opiates not wanting anything like
>>>>> LSD.  Of course we know it but the new people may have no idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if you have been to a detox center please drop Gwen an e-mail
>>>>> and let her know if it was a good place, not so good or fair or
>>>>> whatever
>>>>> your opinion may be.  Also, I have been on this list and I seem to have
>>>>> trouble when asked which place is the best, which place is good if you
>>>>> do not have much money, which places treat you as a patient and show
>>>>> kindness and respect, so if you have been to a detox place could you
>>>>> please
>>>>> send me a couple of sentences saying if it was good, bad or ugly.  It
>>>>> would be appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you all,
>>>>>
>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S.  Matt, did the Ibo work for the depression.  If so good, fair, or
>>>>> not at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>          Thanks  again
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Mon, 9/28/09, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com><http://mc/compose?to=ibogamail@gmail.com>
>>>>> * wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com><http://mc/compose?to=ibogamail@gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine detox in USA?
>>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com><http://mc/compose?to=ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>>>> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:28 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to put in my 2 cents on what you said about methadone.  It
>>>>> is not always necessary to switch from methadone to shorter acting opiates.
>>>>> I successfully detoxed from 74mg and I have heard of people coming off of
>>>>> doses as high as 300.  Although it does complicate matters and makes it more
>>>>> likely that some withdrawal symptoms will "bleed through" the ibo protective
>>>>> screen if you know what I mean.  Tapering to as low as you can get is a good
>>>>> idea but usually that means a long period of time, a fast taper just means
>>>>> you'll be sick which aint no good.  Also I did not require a booster.  I
>>>>> didn't take ibogaine again after my detox for 2 and half years and then I
>>>>> was seeking relief from depression and not any kind of substance use.  But
>>>>> even without a booster I didn't have any cravings to speak of, well pretty
>>>>> much ever.  I mean the thought definitely occurs to me sometimes that it
>>>>> might be nice to get loaded but I haven't had that sort of deep, yearning,
>>>>> need for dope that I used to have ever since.  As long as I don't entertain
>>>>> the thoughts there is no compulsive aspect to it anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Hadey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> HI Gwen,
>>>>>
>>>>> May I ask how much methadone are you doing??  Methadone
>>>>> and Subutex are the hardest to detox from.  The right thing to
>>>>> do is switch from methadone to a shorter acting narcotic.
>>>>> The problem is you may not be able to do this.  Many people
>>>>> switch to morphine sulfate or Oxycontin and get as low as
>>>>> possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> You will need a booster in about 6 months.  See, Ibo really
>>>>> does work.  It gives you a 80-90% discount on pain and
>>>>> suffering and takes away the cravings for 6 to 9 months.
>>>>> It is not magic but it is the best out there.  You still have
>>>>> to do your part.  Have you been to any NA meetings?
>>>>> I personally am not a lover of NA but you really should
>>>>> find out what they are about.  If you want to stay clean you
>>>>> must quit hanging around people who use.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have money then this place is the Cadillac of detox
>>>>>
>>>>> Deborah Mash  * * www.ibogaine.net - Deborah Mash's 'Healing
>>>>> Transitions Institute' for Addiction Ibogaine Provider site. (US$3-12k
>>>>> approx.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In Canada there is www.ibogatherapyhouse.net - The Iboga Therapy
>>>>> House, Vancouver
>>>>> I am not sure they take Americans, you will have to call and see.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are no Ibo detox centers in the U.S.  You basically can choose
>>>>> from Mexico, Canada, Africa or the Netherlands.  Do not buy any off
>>>>> the internet for it will be a rip off.  I don't care if the person has
>>>>> a web site
>>>>> or whatever if you buy off the net you will get ripped off.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that your an American and you want American medicine
>>>>> rather than some guy with a painted face jumping up and down.  You
>>>>> want to detox and quit and hopefully live happily ever after.  However,
>>>>> you worded it poorly.  American medicine works very poorly against
>>>>> opiate addiction.  If you say something like some native with his face
>>>>> painted the people will feel that your a raciest or something like detox
>>>>> in
>>>>> Mexico or someplace yuck.  It does not matter if you are or are not
>>>>> they
>>>>> will perceive you to be one.  In fact the smallest thing can touch off
>>>>> a storm.
>>>>> I know your new and meant no disrespect but try not to say things like
>>>>> that
>>>>> for you may of meant it one way and they take it another way.
>>>>>
>>>>> How much do you know about Ibo??  It is not the kind of thing you take
>>>>> on Friday after work and return Monday and all is fine.  It is at least
>>>>> a week before you are together.  After the treatment you will not eat
>>>>> or sleep very well for a week.  This is normal.  If you were to cold
>>>>> turkey
>>>>> methadone you would also not eat or sleep for a week.
>>>>>
>>>>> What Ibo does basically is it turns a raging Flu in to a regular cold.
>>>>> You
>>>>> get an 80-90% discount on the pain and suffering, the hot and cold
>>>>> running
>>>>> chills, diarrhea, etc.  You end up with the sneezies and maybe a little
>>>>> cold
>>>>> chills now and then - much like a regular cold.  But in 6 to 9 months
>>>>> you
>>>>> may start to get the cravings again.  What you have to do is take about
>>>>> 1/4 to 1/2 gram and hope to go on staying clean.  Ask about that when
>>>>> you inquire at the treatment center.  For the poor people they had a
>>>>> person
>>>>> come to their house or go to a hotel or motel and do the detox,
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>> in America but it is illegal as hell.  Some of these people are OK
>>>>> others are
>>>>> not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should someone contact you ask them if they went to a detox center,
>>>>> which one and would they recommend it to others.  Ask about the
>>>>> booster and get all the info you can.  Ibogaine is not like any other
>>>>> drug.  It is kind of funny people will write in saying they smoked pot,
>>>>> used LSD, mushrooms, etc.  It is kind of funny in a way.  Ibo is not
>>>>> a hallucinogenic, it is labeled as such but it is not.  It is like
>>>>> going
>>>>> to a large theater with 3 screens and you watch a movie.  You will
>>>>> forget most of it but remember bits and pieces and as time goes
>>>>> on you may start to remember certain things.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is more to Ibo than just kicking dope.  You can use it to change
>>>>> your life.  Are you happy with your life right now??  Forget your on
>>>>> methadone just ask yourself are you happy with your life right now.
>>>>> Ibo will give you a chance to change it.  You decide how you want to
>>>>> be then act that way and you will become that which you wanted to
>>>>> become.  You may want to go further and maybe quit cigarettes and
>>>>> other bad habits maybe gambling or whatever.  You may decide to
>>>>> change you life by helping others, maybe do volunteer work, spending
>>>>> more time with the family and things like that.  Some people change
>>>>> their lives around.  Regardless of what you do it should get you off
>>>>> the
>>>>> methadone.  The last person I talked to several years ago was on 11 mg
>>>>> of methadone and could not get off.  She took the Ibo treatment and got
>>>>> rid of the invisible chains.  Again, I could tell you more if I knew
>>>>> how long
>>>>> and how much you are taking.  If you up around 100- 150 do not try it -
>>>>> that's just my opinion.  The best way is to change to a shorter acting
>>>>> drug
>>>>> like Oxycontin or MS Contin.  The problem with things like Lortab and
>>>>> Percodan is you would need a handful and few doc will write you a
>>>>> perscription for 300 Lortabs.  It may be possible that you will have to
>>>>> wait
>>>>> a while and lower your dose.  Also, how long were you on the methadone
>>>>> for that can make a difference too??   See, when a person in on opiates
>>>>> for years and years their brain grows receptors, mu receptors for the
>>>>> opiates to go to.  What I think that means you will have cravings most
>>>>> of
>>>>> your life.  You have heard that people who are on opiates will go to
>>>>> prison
>>>>> for 10 years and the first thing they do when they get out is go and
>>>>> use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever you do, do not use after treatment for you tolerance is zero.
>>>>> Also if you do use a few days after detox the Ibo acts as an opiate
>>>>> enhancer and that is how people die from it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only the poor do the do it yourself.  I see so many people come on and
>>>>> see
>>>>> if there is a clinic that accepts payments or any other way.  Sometimes
>>>>> they
>>>>> do it themselves at home.  I doubt if this would be a good route for
>>>>> you to take.
>>>>> And if you have the money for a proper detox why not do it properly, it
>>>>> would
>>>>> be a shame to die trying to kick.  You will get sick and lose your
>>>>> lunch, the
>>>>> danger is should you be on your back and half out of it you could
>>>>> swallow the
>>>>> vomit.  Even now with today's technology one out of three who get vomit
>>>>> into
>>>>> their lungs die.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said should someone contact you ask if they know anyone who has
>>>>> been detoxed and where and what was it like.  That is the best way.
>>>>> Most
>>>>> of the people on the forum are from the low economic class and can not
>>>>> afford 5 to 10K for a proper detox.  Many do fine doing it at home
>>>>> themselves.
>>>>> Sometimes you get so tired of living the life that you feel It will
>>>>> kill me or cure
>>>>> me, I am tired of living this kind of life.  I have never been to the
>>>>> clinics but
>>>>> the ones in Mexico are decent or you can go to Canada.  If no one
>>>>> contacts
>>>>> you I will ask a couple of people to answer a question or two or I will
>>>>> tell you
>>>>> who to contact.  Certain people can make suggestions or guide you to
>>>>> what
>>>>> you want.  And if I could mention one more thing once you are off drugs
>>>>> -
>>>>> don't take that first hit, pill shot, snort or whatever.  Run away fast
>>>>> before your
>>>>> mind changes, of course you will not be associating with user which is
>>>>> a great help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to drop me a line if there is anything I can do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hoped I helped,
>>>>>
>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Mon, 9/28/09, Gwen Sorensen <gwencsorensen at yahoo.com>* wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Gwen Sorensen <gwencsorensen at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine detox in USA?
>>>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>>>> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 2:00 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi I ended up here after viewing the ibogaine film Rite of Passage. I
>>>>> was hoping to get some info about ibogaine treatment for methadone. I saw
>>>>> the movie and some of the news stories which were very impressive, what I'd
>>>>> like to know is if there's anywhere in the USA where you can get treatment
>>>>> at a hospital or something? The african everything is interesting but I
>>>>> don't really want to have some guy in paint dancing around me or go detox in
>>>>> Mexico or someplace yuck. Are there any nice treatment centers which have
>>>>> doctors and no strange pseudo cult atmosphere? I don't want to be mean to
>>>>> anyone if that's the case or disrespect anyone, but I so much do not want a
>>>>> lot of weirdness, only a safe detox please. I did contact ibogaine.netbut was told that their island detox had shut down years ago and moved to
>>>>> Cancun but nobody from Cancun ever calls me back and the other clinic is in
>>>>> Mexico where I so much don't want to go. If there are no nice clinics in the
>>>>> USA, is there anything in a hospital in the European Union please,
>>>>> preferably in London or Paris?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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>>>
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