[Ibogaine] Is ibogaine treatment devolving?

Randy Faulconer bicuitboy714 at gmail.com
Sun Sep 27 17:16:53 EDT 2009


           All I know is I'm glad I'm not invovled with any of this shit. If
my name has EVER been mentioned around this, please, somebody let me know as
I will vehemently deny it till I die because it..................well it
just ain't so.

            Peace Love and Shadow Figures
                       Randy
                           BiscuitBoy Blues

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 2:36 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> What label can we robe ourselves with and try to "be" when not from the
> heart doesn't turn us into total idiots?
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Douglas Fraser <
> doug_fraser at microcinema.com> wrote:
>
>> g. bunnie wrote:
>>
>>> that's funny 'finally noticed'? the entire history of ibogaine is ego
>>> wars,
>>> lawsuits and money, to borrow Patric's line 'another day in the
>>> psychedelic
>>> soap opera'. what's new to my understanding is that ibogaine access has
>>> now
>>> filtered down to the plain ol' dumb and incompetent, joined in by the
>>> snake
>>> oil salesmen who either are selling ibogaine while not having any
>>> ibogaine,
>>> or claiming to be great bwiti healers since that's probably easier to
>>> pull
>>> off then pretending to know what you're talking about if you're stupid.
>>>
>>
>> ok, I retract "finally"....  good grief.  your last sentence is more along
>> the lines of what I was trying to express - the total idiots are now out in
>> force.  5 years ago, you could not say this, or at least I wouldn't have
>> said it, though I heard all about Mash and etc etc.
>>
>> doug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Douglas Fraser <
>>> doug_fraser at microcinema.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> The evil spirit of capitalism has finally noticed ibogaine, it seems....
>>>> unfortunately there is no 100% effective the first time drug that will
>>>> deal
>>>> with the dark side of human nature and all the shit people like to
>>>> project
>>>> out into the world
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeffrey Gartner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The science certainly has not moved forward much, the clinical trials
>>>>> within the US or elsewhere, which are always arriving at any moment or
>>>>> already starting, never arrive. I don't know who all the talking heads
>>>>> on YouTube are but they're blathering nonsense instead of science and
>>>>> if
>>>>> these are the individuals treating patients, that's quite scary.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't bow down to anybody with a PhD or MD because most of them are
>>>>> fools as well, but in the past even if people who spoke about ibogaine
>>>>> or treated others were self taught (Howard Lotsoff, Patrick Krupa, Dana
>>>>> Beal, Marc Emery), what they said at least made some sort of sense and
>>>>> if an MD asked a question, they were able to intelligently answer it. I
>>>>> am not seeing that anymore, the "medical subculture" Dr. Alper
>>>>> described
>>>>> is turning into a pack of uneducated and inconsistent amateurs at best,
>>>>> rip offs and snake oil salesmen at worst.
>>>>>
>>>>> If ibogaine had an image problem, it's getting a lot worse. It's sad.
>>>>> "Ok some of the old guard were not the nicest people but you did not
>>>>> feel like they were covered in snake oil or even worse just plain
>>>>> incompetent" that one hit home. Since nobody normal ever seems to end
>>>>> up
>>>>> involved with ibogaine, my vote goes to meglomaniacal arrogant lunatics
>>>>> with high IQs over shady or just plain dumb, anyday. Especially the day
>>>>> my life depends on one of these people.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________ From: fallen eden
>>>>> <falleneden1 at gmail.com> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:19:39 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
>>>>> Is
>>>>> ibogaine treatment devolving?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've noticed the same kinds of things.. but not too many people are
>>>>> bold
>>>>> enough to mention it, or don't want to start any more fights.. I did
>>>>> notice a lot of the "recycled text" from site to site, and then on the
>>>>> other end more "snake oil" type representations that would appeal to
>>>>> some people, but make others think ibogaine treatment is just a scam
>>>>> like I used to think it was.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if treatment is devolving but it's a good point to make..
>>>>> I
>>>>> think more word has gotten out about ibogaine, and perhaps that has
>>>>> something to do with it rather than 10 years ago when it was way more
>>>>> obscure. "The collection of people starting to represent ibogaine is
>>>>> giving me the creeps"- I really have to commend you for saying that,
>>>>> because it's starting to creep me out too.. as well as other people..
>>>>> but no one has really spoken up about it because I don't think many of
>>>>> us want to rock the boat too much. I don't mean all people that
>>>>> represent ibogaine, but certain places or groups I agree are starting
>>>>> to
>>>>> get on the creepy side.. While on that topic, the whole "hierarchical
>>>>> cult" mentality that some groups have has started to worry me too. I've
>>>>> been given the impression before- or actually just flat out told- by
>>>>> certain people that they think they have some kind of exclusive control
>>>>> over ibogaine, as if they "own" it. Other people have told me that
>>>>> they've also been told those same kinds of things.. How exactly can
>>>>> someone claim to have exclusive control over a plant? It's one thing to
>>>>> regulate treatment centers and such for health reasons and safety, but
>>>>> no one ever gave me the impression that this "control" was because of
>>>>> health and safety- it just frankly seems like some kind of ego trip.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for putting this out there.. I know there are quite a few other
>>>>> people thinking the same thing. Of course not everywhere is creepy, but
>>>>> some groups are getting a little weird.. I noticed that Bwiti is
>>>>>
>>>>
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