[Ibogaine] Post-session analgesia

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Thu Sep 17 05:13:21 EDT 2009


Hello Mark;

I found a lot of clarity from my experience with entheogens as you more or less described.

What I found difficult was apply these experiences to life; and that takes a lot of effort but the pay-off is worth it. I find that one can have all the understanding and knowledge in the world but unless you put it into practise or physically apply it to one;s self its of no real value.

This is easier said than done; as I mentioned; but personally speaking it helped me a lot. I think you just have to put things into perspective in that its a process.

I am not saying the following is what you said or meant: The point I wanted to make was although these types of plants can help you access "information" you need from within you. Its not going to do the work for you to make it a reality in terms of making a permanent life change without effort; physical effort.

I do agree that relief is often a great way to gain perspective as long as it does not become an escape or way to avoid pain.



________________________________
From: Mark Lader <imaidiot at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, 17 September, 2009 9:12:11
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post-session analgesia

Thanks for your response. The specialist I am seeing seems open to putting me on a full agonist rather than keeping me on suboxone, which no longer has any real affect on me. I hope that he does. I am a 24 year old college student suffering from total dysphoria and severe anxiety. The only substances that have ever helped me to feel like myself are opiates and hallucinogens. When I take mushrooms, for example, I am able to see the person I am beyond my emotional torment, and what I see in myself is so shockingly beautiful that it is almost enough to make me believe in god. It is only during these earth-shattering moments of clarity that I know who I am, and what I am capable of. This awareness I possess of my own core integrity and intellect is the only reason I am still alive. If only I could find a way to fully cultivate this side of myself, I would surely have an extraordinary life ahead of me. Right now, however, I simply desire some kind of relief
 from this nightmare I call my life. I do not want to have to rely on opiates, but for the time being, it seems my only option.

>>Hi Mark,
>>
>>Ibo may be legal in Canada but you just don't walk
>>in the grocery store or drug store or even a health
>>food store and buy it.  
>>
>>You can use the HCL to  lower your use of
>>opiates.  You get a capsule of some kind and
>>empty and fill it with Ibo.  I could only guess 20
>>to 30 mg every other day, for 7 - 10 days and then
>>go 7 - 10 days without it and see how things are going
>>and repeat as necessary.  It should work good at
>>first then the results will be less and less.  When
>>the results are less quit using it for a week or two.
>>
>>There will come a point of diminished returns
>>where you either stay where you are or take
>>a full Ibo treatment.
>>
>>I cut my dose in half in about 6 weeks or so.
>>
>>Hope it works for you.
>>
>>  - JIM
>>
>>
>>--- On Wed,  9/16/09, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post-session analgesia
>>>
>>>To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 6:54 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
From: Dork Vader <imaidiot at gmail.com>
>>>To: The Ibogaine List  <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 16 September, 2009 3:47:31
>>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post-session analgesia
>>>
>>>I am in a similar situation right now. I wish it were possible in the United States to simply obtain root bark and use small amounts to control tolerance. I feel tempted to move to  Canada for awhile, as I understand iboga and ibogaine can be legally obtained there. Iboga is legal there and may be obtainable but you would not know the alkaloid content without first testing it some how. I wonder, hypothetically speaking, would it be safe to use minute amounts of iboga or ibogaine on a daily basis to control tolerance to opiates?There is a paper called "*dirty maintenance" with reference to iboga (obviously) which you may find interesting; but its not some thing you can take daily.  If so, how much would it be safe to use in conjunction with a narcotic analgesic without risking an overdose?
>>>See a respected provider; this is not some thing I would "DIY" to begin with. You could  continue on your own at a later date but you would need some initial guidance or advice in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>*http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/index.html?Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine2.htm~mainFrame
>>>
>>>
>>>Is the link
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Cal,
>>>>
>>>>You friend is in a pretty hard situation, he gets pain 
>>>>meds from the doc and gets hooked on them.  That's 
>>>>what pain meds do.  Even when used as directed
>>>>like taking maybe 4 or 5 Vikes a day.   Not really
>>>>a large dose or an abuse.  But as time goes on 
>>>>you need more - just like the addict in the street.
>>>>And when you go to kick a small 40-50 mg a day
>>>>habit it can be a much harder than  imagined.  See,
>>>>it doesn't get you high and you don't even know 
>>>>your on it.  But when you go to quit it is as if all
>>>>hell brakes loose.  It can be hard to explain but 
>>>>sometimes it just feels  good to be off of everything.
>>>>Maybe you friend just want to get off everything and
>>>>see what things are like.  I can understand that.
>>>>
>>>>But he is between a rock and a hard place.   He is
>>>>in serious pain, no doubt.  I take about the same
>>>>meds as your friend.  Thank God for the MS with
>>>>oxy or vik for break through pain.  Many people as
>>>>well as my self have said that when you go through
>>>>an Ibo experience it acts as a pain killer and stops
>>>>pain for about 30 days - it really is wonderful.  Then 
>>>>you can start over again taking just enough pain 
>>>>meds to ease the pain.  But as time goes on you
>>>>may increase you dose.  It's also pretty expensive.
>>>>That's what  I do, l try to avoid using H.  It seems that
>>>>I will do it once a month, not perfect but I can live with
>>>>that.  Haven't used in about 2.  I am planning to take
>>>>another Ibo treatment and hoping to get off the drugs
>>>>and stay off.  That means that I just suffer the pain.  If
>>>>I can not stay off the pain meds or get hooked again
>>>>I will just have to live with it, this will be my last  detox,
>>>>For I can not continue to do detoxes every couple of
>>>>years.  I have a feeling that those on SSD and
>>>>programs like that will be left cold turking their habit.
>>>>I have a feeling the government is going to cut 
>>>>spending and  that usually means people in my class.
>>>>If they quit paying for the MS  or my doc visit there is
>>>>no way in hell that I could afford them.
>>>>
>>>>Now, if your friend just wants to cut down.  He may
>>>>want to go with a little root bark.  It may be a big
>>>>hassle to  go through a full blown detox not to 
>>>>mention the expense and time to recover.  Ask
>>>>your friend what he is trying to accomplish.  Does
>>>>he want to get off drugs and stay off them for the
>>>>rest of his life??  Does he just want to come down
>>>>to a lower dose??  Or does he want the experience
>>>>and anything good that may come of it??  Then 
>>>>you can decide what course of treatment to  take.  
>>>>Why go through a full detox when all you want is
>>>>to cut down some??  Or if his goal is to be off
>>>>opiates completely he is going to have to fight the
>>>>pain which can really wear ya down. 
>>>>
>>>>Wishing him the best,
>>>>
>>>>  - JIM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--- On Mon, 9/14/09, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: [Ibogaine] Post-session analgesia
>>>>>
>>>>>To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>>Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 5:35 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Greetings friends...
>>>>>I am in a situation where I have no experience and am needing some advice and hopefully someone's expertise:
>>>>>A good friend of mine has considered taking iboga (TA) for his addiction to narcotic analgesics. He is prescribed morphine sulfate  (100mg tablets) and percocet (7.5mg) taken three or four  times a day. He has  rods in his lumbar spine from an accident several years ago but has found himself with a runaway addiction, using heroin instead of his prescriptions as his tolerance runs unchecked...
>>>>>My and his questions are - how soon after a session will it be safe to take a narcotic analgesic for pain? He will certainly be in need of pain killers, as the ibo treatment will undoubtedly address his inability to control his intake, but will not 'cure' his chronic pain. He feels strongly about the desire to 'get a hold on'  his issues and is trusting me to help him find a safe way through a treatment. I told him I have the resources (namely you guys and some others in the community) to find this information and hopefully let him know something in a few days. I am fairly knowledgeable about iboga/ibogaine but this presents special difficulties, as many of the deaths that have been 'linked' to ibogaine can be traced to post-treatment overdose from opiates. The  user, for whatever reasons, decides to take a narcotic, and the changes in the biochemistry of the brain don't allow for the 'normal' dose the addict is used to taking- resulting in fatal 
 overdose. This we are aware of, but my question is specifically how long after a session is it safe to ingest the PRESCRIBED amount of analgesia? Obviously, he is waay beyond being able to be sustained by the prescribed dosing schedule, so much so that he has advanced to IV heroin for his pain-issues and to sate his addiction...
>>>>>Does anyone have experience treating a patient that has severe chronic pain issues? anybody have themselves gone through a similar situation?
>>>>>No dosing of iboga will even be approached until I am absolutely comfortable in my decision and have obtained the information I need. I imagine this is one of the greater difficulties facing a provider and a patient. Please advise. 
>>>>>Thank you all ~ C
>>>>>
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