From dana at phantom.com  Wed Sep  2 11:40:10 2009
From: dana at phantom.com (Dana Beal)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:40:10 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] While I'm in Dunedin
Message-ID: <213BD505-FBA0-4FED-8C35-052772F0ED1D@phantom.com>

Contacts are Tanz 64 34561464- landline and  64 273013748 or Abe Gray  
643-473-0579  -- good for anyone coming showing up at the last minute,  
too!

Come on down.

Dana/cnw
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 12:12:53 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:12:53 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] While I'm in Dunedin
In-Reply-To: <213BD505-FBA0-4FED-8C35-052772F0ED1D@phantom.com>
References: <213BD505-FBA0-4FED-8C35-052772F0ED1D@phantom.com>
Message-ID: <AE3B2FCC-7A20-46F9-9CC0-E5AA1E3A2BF0@gmail.com>

Thanks Dana.

Thaks for all your work you have done..

You give us all hope!!

We all Ned to become more involved in trying to change life for the  
better for drug users to the hardcore addicts that's better fucked  
over by the idiotic system unfarely..

We need a different polcy marijuana
Good people are hurting.. Because of a falied polcy on drugs..

You are doing what most would not do.,
Putting your self out there in harms way to try to change things for  
the better..


Thanks you Dana for trying to gave us all a voice!!!

Keep pushing!!

I was thinking of writing Obama..
I'm sick of the way people use drugs are treated.,

I have a real disease. And I'm treated like shit by even my doctor at  
times..

This has got to stop


J






On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:40 AM, Dana Beal <dana at phantom.com> wrote:

> Contacts are Tanz 64 34561464- landline and  64 273013748 or Abe  
> Gray 643-473-0579  -- good for anyone coming showing up at the last  
> minute, too!
>
> Come on down.
>
> Dana/cnw
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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From halyna at isp01.net  Wed Sep  2 13:48:11 2009
From: halyna at isp01.net (Halyna)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:48:11 -1000
Subject: [Ibogaine] re; OT big DrugDealer, SmallJustice
Message-ID: <012B02AD650847A9B30411E851438815@D8TJ74B1>



Pfizer to pay record $2.3 billion penalty 
Justice Department cites unlawful prescription-drug promotions
The Associated Press
updated 7:03 a.m. HT, Wed., Sept . 2, 2009
WASHINGTON - Pfizer Inc., the world's largest drug maker, will pay a record $2.3 billion civil and criminal penalty over unlawful prescription-drug promotions.

Announcing the settlement Wednesday, the Justice Department said that it included the largest criminal fine in U.S. history - $1.2 billion. The agreement also included a criminal forfeiture of $105 million.

Authorities called Pfizer a repeat offender, noting it is the fourth such settlement of government charges in the last decade. They said the government will monitor the company's conduct for the next five years to rein in the abuses.

To promote the drugs, authorities said Pfizer invited doctors to consultant meetings at resort locations, paying their expenses and providing perks.

"They were entertained with golf, massages, and other activities," said Mike Loucks, the U.S. attorney in Massachusetts.

Loucks said that even as Pfizer was negotiating deals on past misconduct, they were continuing to violate the very same laws with other drugs.

Six corporate whistleblowers who first brought the misconduct to light will share $102 million of the settlement money.

Largest settlement involving drug company
FBI Assistant Director Kevin Perkins praised the whistleblowers who decided to "speak out against a corporate giant that was blatantly violating the law and misleading the public through false marketing claims."

Associate Attorney General Thomas Perrelli said the settlement illustrates ways the department "can help the American public at a time when budgets are tight and health care costs are rising."

The overall settlement is the largest ever paid by a drug company for alleged violations of federal drug rules.

The government said the company promoted four prescription drugs, including the pain killer Bextra, as treatments for medical conditions different than those the drugs had been approved for by federal regulators.

Use of drugs for so-called "off-label" medical conditions is not uncommon, but drug manufacturers are prohibited from marketing drugs for uses that have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration.

Bextra, one of a class of painkillers known as Cox-2 inhibitors, was pulled from the U.S. market in 2005 amid mounting evidence it raised the risk of heart attack, stroke and death.

A Pfizer subsidiary, Pharmacia and Upjohn Inc., which was acquired in 2003, has entered an agreement to plead guilty to one count of felony misbranding. The criminal case applied only to Bextra.

The $1 billion in civil penalties was related to Bextra and a number of other medicines. A portion of the civil penalty will be distributed to 49 states and the District of Columbia, according to agreements with each state's Medicaid program.

"These agreements bring final closure to significant legal matters and help to enhance our focus on what we do best - discovering, developing and delivering innovative medicines to treat patients dealing with some of the world's most debilitating diseases," said Amy W. Schulman, senior vice president and general counsel of Pfizer.

Justice officials discussed details of the deal at a news conference with FBI, federal prosecutors, and Health and Human Services Department officials.

Terms of the settlement
In financial filings in January, the company had indicated that it would pay $2.3 billion over allegations it had marketed the pain reliever Bextra and possibly other drugs for medical conditions different than their approved use. The civil settlement announced Wednesday also covered Pfizer's promotions of three other drugs: blockbuster nerve pain and epilepsy treatment Lyrica, schizophrenia medicine Geodon, antibiotic Zyvox and nine other medicines. Pfizer said the agreement with the Justice Department resolves the investigation into promotion of all those drugs, plus several related whistleblower lawsuits.

Under terms of the settlement, Pfizer must pay $1 billion to compensate Medicaid, Medicare, and other federal health care programs. Some of that money will be shared among the states: New York, for example, will receive $66 million, according to the state's attorney general, Andrew Cuomo.

"Pfizer ripped off New Yorkers and taxpayers across the country to pad its bottom line," Cuomo said. "Pfizer's corrupt practices went so far as sending physicians on exotic junkets as well as wining and dining health care professionals to persuade them to prescribe the company's drugs for patients in taxpayer-funded programs."

Pfizer spokesman Chris Loder confirmed Wednesday that the $2.3 billion charge to the company's earnings had been taken in the fourth quarter of 2008.

"No additional charge to the company's earnings will be recorded in connection with this settlement," he said.

In her statement, Schulman said: "We regret certain actions taken in the past, but are proud of the action we've taken to strengthen our internal controls and pioneer new procedures so that we not only comply with state and federal laws, but also meet the high standards that patients, physicians and the public expect from a leading worldwide company dedicated to healing and better health."

"Corporate integrity is an absolute priority for Pfizer," she said, "and we will continue to take appropriate actions to further enhance our compliance practices and strengthen public trust in our company."

When Pfizer originally disclosed the settlement figure, it also announced plans to acquire rival Wyeth for $68 billion. That deal, which would bolster Pfizer's position as the world's top drug maker by revenue, is expected to close before year's end.

Shares of Pfizer dropped 14 cents to $16.24 in midday trading.


Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32657347/ns/business-us_business/


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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Wed Sep  2 14:08:16 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:08:16 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] re; OT big DrugDealer, SmallJustice
In-Reply-To: <012B02AD650847A9B30411E851438815@D8TJ74B1>
References: <012B02AD650847A9B30411E851438815@D8TJ74B1>
Message-ID: <4A9EB490.4080803@mtciep.com>

Is this surprising to anyone?? :o)

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Halyna wrote:
> Pfizer to pay record $2.3 billion penalty
> Justice Department cites unlawful prescription-drug promotions
> The Associated Press
> updated 7:03 a.m. HT, Wed., Sept . 2, 2009
>
> WASHINGTON - Pfizer Inc., the world?s largest drug maker, will pay a 
> record $2.3 billion civil and criminal penalty over unlawful 
> prescription-drug promotions.
>
> Announcing the settlement Wednesday, the Justice Department said that 
> it included the largest criminal fine in U.S. history ? $1.2 billion. 
> The agreement also included a criminal forfeiture of $105 million.
>
> Authorities called Pfizer a repeat offender, noting it is the fourth 
> such settlement of government charges in the last decade. They said 
> the government will monitor the company?s conduct for the next five 
> years to rein in the abuses.
>
> To promote the drugs, authorities said Pfizer invited doctors to 
> consultant meetings at resort locations, paying their expenses and 
> providing perks.
>
> ?They were entertained with golf, massages, and other activities,? 
> said Mike Loucks, the U.S. attorney in Massachusetts.
>
> Loucks said that even as Pfizer was negotiating deals on past 
> misconduct, they were continuing to violate the very same laws with 
> other drugs.
>
> Six corporate whistleblowers who first brought the misconduct to light 
> will share $102 million of the settlement money.
>
> *Largest settlement involving drug company
> *FBI Assistant Director Kevin Perkins praised the whistleblowers who 
> decided to ?speak out against a corporate giant that was blatantly 
> violating the law and misleading the public through false marketing 
> claims.?
>
> Associate Attorney General Thomas Perrelli said the settlement 
> illustrates ways the department ?can help the American public at a 
> time when budgets are tight and health care costs are rising.?
>
> The overall settlement is the largest ever paid by a drug company for 
> alleged violations of federal drug rules.
>
> The government said the company promoted four prescription drugs, 
> including the pain killer Bextra, as treatments for medical conditions 
> different than those the drugs had been approved for by federal 
> regulators.
>
> Use of drugs for so-called ?off-label? medical conditions is not 
> uncommon, but drug manufacturers are prohibited from marketing drugs 
> for uses that have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration.
>
> Bextra, one of a class of painkillers known as Cox-2 inhibitors, was 
> pulled from the U.S. market in 2005 amid mounting evidence it raised 
> the risk of heart attack, stroke and death.
>
> A Pfizer subsidiary, Pharmacia and Upjohn Inc., which was acquired in 
> 2003, has entered an agreement to plead guilty to one count of felony 
> misbranding. The criminal case applied only to Bextra.
>
> The $1 billion in civil penalties was related to Bextra and a number 
> of other medicines. A portion of the civil penalty will be distributed 
> to 49 states and the District of Columbia, according to agreements 
> with each state?s Medicaid program.
>
> ?These agreements bring final closure to significant legal matters and 
> help to enhance our focus on what we do best ? discovering, developing 
> and delivering innovative medicines to treat patients dealing with 
> some of the world?s most debilitating diseases,? said Amy W. Schulman, 
> senior vice president and general counsel of Pfizer.
>
> Justice officials discussed details of the deal at a news conference 
> with FBI, federal prosecutors, and Health and Human Services 
> Department officials.
>
> *Terms of the settlement
> *In financial filings in January, the company had indicated that it 
> would pay $2.3 billion over allegations it had marketed the pain 
> reliever Bextra and possibly other drugs for medical conditions 
> different than their approved use. The civil settlement announced 
> Wednesday also covered Pfizer?s promotions of three other drugs: 
> blockbuster nerve pain and epilepsy treatment Lyrica, schizophrenia 
> medicine Geodon, antibiotic Zyvox and nine other medicines. Pfizer 
> said the agreement with the Justice Department resolves the 
> investigation into promotion of all those drugs, plus several related 
> whistleblower lawsuits.
>
> Under terms of the settlement, Pfizer must pay $1 billion to 
> compensate Medicaid, Medicare, and other federal health care programs. 
> Some of that money will be shared among the states: New York, for 
> example, will receive $66 million, according to the state?s attorney 
> general, Andrew Cuomo.
>
> ?Pfizer ripped off New Yorkers and taxpayers across the country to pad 
> its bottom line,? Cuomo said. ?Pfizer?s corrupt practices went so far 
> as sending physicians on exotic junkets as well as wining and dining 
> health care professionals to persuade them to prescribe the company?s 
> drugs for patients in taxpayer-funded programs.?
>
> Pfizer spokesman Chris Loder confirmed Wednesday that the $2.3 billion 
> charge to the company?s earnings had been taken in the fourth quarter 
> of 2008.
>
> ?No additional charge to the company?s earnings will be recorded in 
> connection with this settlement,? he said.
>
> In her statement, Schulman said: ?We regret certain actions taken in 
> the past, but are proud of the action we?ve taken to strengthen our 
> internal controls and pioneer new procedures so that we not only 
> comply with state and federal laws, but also meet the high standards 
> that patients, physicians and the public expect from a leading 
> worldwide company dedicated to healing and better health.?
>
> ?Corporate integrity is an absolute priority for Pfizer,? she said, 
> ?and we will continue to take appropriate actions to further enhance 
> our compliance practices and strengthen public trust in our company.?
>
> When Pfizer originally disclosed the settlement figure, it also 
> announced plans to acquire rival Wyeth for $68 billion. That deal, 
> which would bolster Pfizer?s position as the world?s top drug maker by 
> revenue, is expected to close before year?s end.
>
> Shares of Pfizer dropped 14 cents to $16.24 in midday trading.
>
> Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This 
> material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
>
> URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32657347/ns/business-us_business/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>   

From falleneden1 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 01:49:01 2009
From: falleneden1 at gmail.com (fallen eden)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:49:01 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Luminosity. What happened with me.
In-Reply-To: <29d165a30908271716j2c34dd24o48689dfdb0c2d314@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090825213004.8646.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<29d165a30908271716j2c34dd24o48689dfdb0c2d314@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8999cc760909022249u5527da8bna138b3789e21be61@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome report beverly! That's wonderful, and the disappearing cyst is an
amazing blessing. I remember I was stared at by the face of a black man
during some of my experience, the eye you mentioned reminded me of that.

Oh hey Randy, did you still want help with the whole dial-up thing with the
experience reports?

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>wrote:

>               Bev, I will put this with the other stories I have gathered.
> I will eventually get them put up on the site, I'm just very occupied with
> other things at the moment. Music recording being one of the many things
> going on. Music drives my soul so I have to do the recording or wither away.
>
>
>         I'm having the laptop hot rodded, plus I will be in the market for
> another one as well. Up here the dial up won't let me send them to Patrick,
> it just freezes up.
>
>          It'll happen though.
>
>      Thanx for sharing. If you want to, I would appreciate you maybe
> sending me an account offlist. I'm very interested in how it went.
>
>            Peace Love and The Yellow Brick Road
>                      BiscuitBoy
>
>   On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 5:30 PM, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello dear list.
>>
>> One week and one day later, I can write about this.
>> There is SO much to convey, to report, I won't be able to share it all.
>> Layers upon layers upon layers of experiences, that continue to this moment
>> in calm and profound ways. I did the right thing.
>>
>> I began preparations a week before, cutting out meats, focusing on things
>> I wanted to change in my life, intentionally introspective and self aware to
>> the best of my ability. All this time, I had the feeling that Iboga was
>> aware of me. I'll say this once, then just let it go: I'm reporting some
>> things that won't jibe with consensus reality. Nevertheless, they are real.
>> Think what you will.
>>
>> The day before I was going to take the TA, I ate only vegetables, and had
>> my last cigarette in the evening. I'd been sober off alcohol for about,
>> well, you guys remember *blush* 4 weeks? I spent time in the jacuzzi,
>> relaxing and focusing, praying and meditating. I invited Iboga in
>> intentionally during a m editation. Interestingly, I felt acceptance, and my
>> visualization was intense. Felt like it wasn't self generated at all, and
>> included splitting me open at the middle (solar plexus? xyphoid process to
>> pubis?). I sealed and sent my intention with the energy generated by orgasm,
>> then with some trepidation, went to bed.
>>
>> The next morning at 9am, I took a test dose of TA extract. I tolerated
>> this well and took a flood dose carefuly calculated for my height, weight,
>> gender and length of sobriety. This did not take me where I needed to go,
>> and so over time, in 300-400mg increments, I made it up to over 3 grams of
>> extract. Apparently I was a hard nut to crack. Two other people I have
>> spoken with used the same product and found it very potent, so that wasn't
>> the issue. (Wish I had boosters, though!!! Damn!).
>>
>> At around 3?4? in the afternoon, I looked in the mirror across from the
>> bed and saw some people peeking around the corner of it-from the inside- to
>> check if I was r eady. I called for a giant mouthful of plain yogurt, I was
>> craving it like mad, lay down, and went on a journey. :)
>> I threw up only twice, shortly after that, quickly and painlessly. I
>> suffered no prolonged nausea and no dry heaves.
>> My BP was strong the entire time, not much fluctuation from my normal
>> 100/70. My pulse stayed at an average 56 beats. I was so incredibly relaxed.
>> Of course there were visuals. So many visuals I could not possibly tell you
>> all of them, as time was very different as well. I can tell you it began
>> with an eye, that saw me. A sense of myself having waited, maybe as if in a
>> queue, and I was finally seen, addressed. It was my turn.
>> I was matter of factly and sometimes with humor shown many, many things
>> about Beverly, and about the world. Much of my thinking was realigned, and
>> many old wounds were cleaned out. I also know very strongly that I will take
>> this journey again, that Iboga has more for me, and I for Iboga, though I
>> realize how presum ptuous that sounds. I did indeed communicate with my dead
>> elders, remember that was one of my early questions? I also think that my 20
>> some odd year history with meditation and visualization and traditional
>> magics were a boon, as was having been fairly sober except for marijuana and
>> a couple days of recreational darvocet for some weeks.
>> I also did Not want to be disturbed during the experience, and maybe came
>> across as bitchy in conveying that (sorry, dear husband!lol). I cried a few
>> times during, but it seemed that as soon as the emotion made it to my mouth,
>> I was onto healing the next thing.
>>
>> I came around the next morning full of light. Or maybe just so clean
>> inside that my light was visible. If I didn't have a witness, it would be
>> almost hard to believe that my skin actually glowed. Light from within, I
>> was luminous. I was enamored of my hands, so pretty and soft, though I
>> didn't look in a mirror for three days. I didn't think of it.
>> I again went to the jacu zzi. I was able to sit lotus without a thought in
>> my head, not a thought! for ten minutes. This is actually amazing, lol. I
>> was and am so calm. I did not want a cigarette, a drink, nothing. I was free
>> of all wants, really. A perfectly lovely place to be.
>>
>> My ovarian cysts have shrunk to the point of being no longer palpable.
>> This is down from 9cm and visible when I lay on my back. I no longer need
>> surgery for the moment.  My surgery was scheduled for 9/14. :)
>>
>> I then dined on a brilliant plate of fruits. In little teeny tiny bites,
>> lol. Everything tasted divine. Interestingly, for most of my life I have
>> disliked fruit. Now, I've been to three farmer's markets in one week because
>> I can't get enough. I proceeded that same day to read 'The Easy Way to Quit
>> Smoking' (thanks to the wonderful human here who brought that to my
>> attention) and finished it. I've wanted a cigarette a couple times since,
>> but mostly out of boredom and when it's a habit (afetr eating, etc ) nothing
>> I can't acknowledge away. :) I am not finding alcohol to be an issue any
>> longer. I'm not even thinking about it.
>> I made roast chicken and braised squash on the next night, with a simple
>> risotto. I needed a splash of wine for the risotto. The rest of the bottle
>> is still sitting in my house. It is a non-issue.
>>
>> I also must say that emotions bubbled up after, and still are, but not in
>> the same way. For the first few days they came like puke or diarrhea. Not
>> that it was gross, but definitely was a purge, and there was NO stopping
>> it!!! Lol, walking down the street, getting sad about not seeing my beloved
>> grandmother one last time before she passed. Looking desperately for an
>> alley or hidey hole, because, man, I'm going to sob! After each cry, though,
>> I just felt bigger inside. Wider, more expansive. I now fully inhabit my
>> skin.
>> I can breathe into my feet, my breathe moves in me.
>> Also, in the past I have been buffeted by other people's emotions, I pick
>> u p on them like a sponge, often to my detriment and confusion. This is
>> amazingly under control now. I am less porous, less...vulnerable? Yeah, but
>> less porous seems more accurate. I have not lost the ability to connect, but
>> it's a choice, and I can see whose emotions are whose. This is such an
>> unexpected gift, but just one of many.
>> I also look much younger, according to husband and dear friends. My face
>> feels so relaxed. There is less pain on it, to be sure.
>> I also am confirmed in needing to escape this darned day job! (In time, in
>> time)
>> There is so much more, but this is a decent brief.
>>
>> I see many things clearly now, and am confirmed in my thinking on many
>> others.
>> I know I will be working with Iboga in some capacity, I have no idea how,
>> but I am confident about it.
>> I did the right thing.
>> I'm happy to talk about any part of this with anyone, here or off-list.
>>
>> My very heartfelt thanks to Iboga, the place it grew, the hands that
>> harvested, the en tities that got it from there to me, my husband for
>> sitting with me and everyone who has contributed to the movement and this
>> list.
>> Particular thanks to the individuals who have taken the time to talk with
>> me privately, and opened their hearts to me, giving me the gifts of their
>> time and attention.
>> It is my hope to be able to give back at least as much as I have been
>> given.
>>
>> I am a different woman, or maybe just more profoundly and completely the
>> woman I've always been. ;)
>>
>> Love and rockets,
>> Beverly
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>
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From prestonpeet at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 08:11:09 2009
From: prestonpeet at yahoo.com (Preston Peet)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 05:11:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] rehab dangers?- Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in
	Mexico
Message-ID: <402561.70513.qm@web63008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_mexico

Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico ? Gunmen broke into a drug rehabilitation center, lined people against a wall and shot 17 dead in a particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless drug war. The brazen attack followed the killing of the No. 2 security official in President Felipe Calderon's home state.

The attackers on Wednesday broke down the door of El Aliviane center in Ciudad Juarez, lined up their victims against a wall and opened fire, said Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the regional prosecutors' office. At least five people were injured.

Authorities had no immediate suspects or information on the victims. Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas, is Mexico's most violent city, with at least 1,400 people killed this year alone.

Most of the homicides are tied to drug gang violence, which has taken a heavy toll across Mexico. Earlier the same day, gunmen ambushed and killed a senior security official in the home state of President Felipe Calderon.

Dozens of sobbing relatives rushed to the rehabilitation center to find out if their loved ones were among the dead. Soldiers and federal agents patrolled the streets surrounding the center in the Bellavista neighborhood.

Calderon sent thousands more troops and federal police to Ciudad Juarez earlier this year, but the surge has done little to stem the raging violence. The city is home to the Juarez drug cartel, which is battling other gangs for trafficking and dealing turf.

The government is struggling to revamp Ciudad Juarez's police force, which is plagued by corruption and the assassination of many of its officers. Other police have quit the force out of fear of being targeted.

The massacre capped a particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless drug war.

snip-


      

From edwardw at mtciep.com  Thu Sep  3 10:56:48 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:56:48 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] rehab dangers?- Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug
 rehab in Mexico
In-Reply-To: <402561.70513.qm@web63008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <402561.70513.qm@web63008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A9FD930.80007@mtciep.com>

Hey Preston,

This is not the first time this has happened in Juarez.  I live here in 
El Paso, so hearing about this is nothing new.  It's always sad to hear 
about this, but it has become so common place, that it's not 
surprising.  I guess this would be another reason why opening an 
Ibogaine clinic in Juarez would be currently risky.  It's unfortunate to 
see that once someone gets involved with the cartel over there you are 
basically trapped, even if you attempt get over the addiction.

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Preston Peet wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_mexico
>
> Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico
>
> CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico ? Gunmen broke into a drug rehabilitation center, lined people against a wall and shot 17 dead in a particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless drug war. The brazen attack followed the killing of the No. 2 security official in President Felipe Calderon's home state.
>
> The attackers on Wednesday broke down the door of El Aliviane center in Ciudad Juarez, lined up their victims against a wall and opened fire, said Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the regional prosecutors' office. At least five people were injured.
>
> Authorities had no immediate suspects or information on the victims. Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas, is Mexico's most violent city, with at least 1,400 people killed this year alone.
>
> Most of the homicides are tied to drug gang violence, which has taken a heavy toll across Mexico. Earlier the same day, gunmen ambushed and killed a senior security official in the home state of President Felipe Calderon.
>
> Dozens of sobbing relatives rushed to the rehabilitation center to find out if their loved ones were among the dead. Soldiers and federal agents patrolled the streets surrounding the center in the Bellavista neighborhood.
>
> Calderon sent thousands more troops and federal police to Ciudad Juarez earlier this year, but the surge has done little to stem the raging violence. The city is home to the Juarez drug cartel, which is battling other gangs for trafficking and dealing turf.
>
> The government is struggling to revamp Ciudad Juarez's police force, which is plagued by corruption and the assassination of many of its officers. Other police have quit the force out of fear of being targeted.
>
> The massacre capped a particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless drug war.
>
> snip-
>
>
>       
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>   

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 13:05:27 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:05:27 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] rehab dangers?- Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug
	rehab in Mexico
In-Reply-To: <402561.70513.qm@web63008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <402561.70513.qm@web63008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CB8BCD6E-2471-4021-BCA0-FFD8C645A106@gmail.com>

That's fucked up shit..

Man.

All it says to the US leaders is more stepping up the war on drugs.
When really, it needs to be the other way around.

Poeple just don't get it...

But at the same time, those crazy mother fuckers in MX have lost there  
minds...

It's lawsless over there.

I don't agree with the total lawless.,

It too bad we can't get a presdent into offiice that gets it..

I think it moving that way, but it's extremely slow..
One day it's going to come to a head.
It just will.

The US is going to run out of money..
The pres. Now it running us into the red.

The vise pres. Is a class A idiot..

He says spend or or go bankrupt..
What kind of logic is that???

That like saying I'm in debt. 3k, and I'm on ssi, can't work..
I need to spend to not go bankrupt..

How fucked up is that??

I hope those high IQ mother fuckers know something I don't know??
I hope so...

Other wise the country going to he'll..

J





On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Preston Peet <prestonpeet at yahoo.com> wrote:

> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_mexico
>
> Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico
>
> CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico ? Gunmen broke into a drug rehabilitation cent 
> er, lined people against a wall and shot 17 dead in a particularly b 
> loody day in Mexico's relentless drug war. The brazen attack followe 
> d the killing of the No. 2 security official in President Felipe Cal 
> deron's home state.
>
> The attackers on Wednesday broke down the door of El Aliviane center  
> in Ciudad Juarez, lined up their victims against a wall and opened  
> fire, said Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the regional  
> prosecutors' office. At least five people were injured.
>
> Authorities had no immediate suspects or information on the victims.  
> Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas, is Mexico's  
> most violent city, with at least 1,400 people killed this year alone.
>
> Most of the homicides are tied to drug gang violence, which has  
> taken a heavy toll across Mexico. Earlier the same day, gunmen  
> ambushed and killed a senior security official in the home state of  
> President Felipe Calderon.
>
> Dozens of sobbing relatives rushed to the rehabilitation center to  
> find out if their loved ones were among the dead. Soldiers and  
> federal agents patrolled the streets surrounding the center in the  
> Bellavista neighborhood.
>
> Calderon sent thousands more troops and federal police to Ciudad  
> Juarez earlier this year, but the surge has done little to stem the  
> raging violence. The city is home to the Juarez drug cartel, which  
> is battling other gangs for trafficking and dealing turf.
>
> The government is struggling to revamp Ciudad Juarez's police force,  
> which is plagued by corruption and the assassination of many of its  
> officers. Other police have quit the force out of fear of being  
> targeted.
>
> The massacre capped a particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless  
> drug war.
>
> snip-
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Thu Sep  3 13:29:19 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:29:19 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] rehab dangers?- Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug
 rehab in Mexico
In-Reply-To: <CB8BCD6E-2471-4021-BCA0-FFD8C645A106@gmail.com>
References: <402561.70513.qm@web63008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<CB8BCD6E-2471-4021-BCA0-FFD8C645A106@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9FFCEF.8@mtciep.com>

Yeah, pretty sad Jeremy!

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Jeremy Spence wrote:
> That's fucked up shit..
>
> Man.
>
> All it says to the US leaders is more stepping up the war on drugs.
> When really, it needs to be the other way around.
>
> Poeple just don't get it...
>
> But at the same time, those crazy mother fuckers in MX have lost there 
> minds...
>
> It's lawsless over there.
>
> I don't agree with the total lawless.,
>
> It too bad we can't get a presdent into offiice that gets it..
>
> I think it moving that way, but it's extremely slow..
> One day it's going to come to a head.
> It just will.
>
> The US is going to run out of money..
> The pres. Now it running us into the red.
>
> The vise pres. Is a class A idiot..
>
> He says spend or or go bankrupt..
> What kind of logic is that???
>
> That like saying I'm in debt. 3k, and I'm on ssi, can't work..
> I need to spend to not go bankrupt..
>
> How fucked up is that??
>
> I hope those high IQ mother fuckers know something I don't know??
> I hope so...
>
> Other wise the country going to he'll..
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Preston Peet <prestonpeet at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_mexico
>>
>> Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico
>>
>> CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico ? Gunmen broke into a drug rehabilitation 
>> center, lined people against a wall and shot 17 dead in a 
>> particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless drug war. The brazen 
>> attack followed the killing of the No. 2 security official in 
>> President Felipe Calderon's home state.
>>
>> The attackers on Wednesday broke down the door of El Aliviane center 
>> in Ciudad Juarez, lined up their victims against a wall and opened 
>> fire, said Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the regional prosecutors' 
>> office. At least five people were injured.
>>
>> Authorities had no immediate suspects or information on the victims. 
>> Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas, is Mexico's 
>> most violent city, with at least 1,400 people killed this year alone.
>>
>> Most of the homicides are tied to drug gang violence, which has taken 
>> a heavy toll across Mexico. Earlier the same day, gunmen ambushed and 
>> killed a senior security official in the home state of President 
>> Felipe Calderon.
>>
>> Dozens of sobbing relatives rushed to the rehabilitation center to 
>> find out if their loved ones were among the dead. Soldiers and 
>> federal agents patrolled the streets surrounding the center in the 
>> Bellavista neighborhood.
>>
>> Calderon sent thousands more troops and federal police to Ciudad 
>> Juarez earlier this year, but the surge has done little to stem the 
>> raging violence. The city is home to the Juarez drug cartel, which is 
>> battling other gangs for trafficking and dealing turf.
>>
>> The government is struggling to revamp Ciudad Juarez's police force, 
>> which is plagued by corruption and the assassination of many of its 
>> officers. Other police have quit the force out of fear of being 
>> targeted.
>>
>> The massacre capped a particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless 
>> drug war.
>>
>> snip-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 13:51:38 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:51:38 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com>

I think it's hopeless over there..

I would hate to be involved with the game over there..

You have to carry a gun at all times..

But yet guns are illegal..

It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!

It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
Only the ass hole will have them..

I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..

They really don't care who dies
even them self..
That just can't be right.,

Line up mothers and wasting them..
Fuck up shit

Can't picture it..

Hard to picture..

I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it  
happens..
And it happens when you least expect it. And where you least expect it..

MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
Fuck..
They really don't..

Its pretty fucked up..

They been in the game so long their brains are fried.

I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that  
fucked up..

J
















From edwardw at mtciep.com  Thu Sep  3 19:14:04 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:14:04 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com>
References: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA04DBC.60809@mtciep.com>

Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the violence was 
minimized before, President Calderon declared "war" against the 
cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I think legalization of some 
sort would be the way to go to reduce some of the the terrible violence 
in Mexico.  I was thinking, did the violence disappear or was reduced in 
the Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in the 30's......I 
wonder if the same model would have the same effect?

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Jeremy Spence wrote:
> I think it's hopeless over there..
>
> I would hate to be involved with the game over there..
>
> You have to carry a gun at all times..
>
> But yet guns are illegal..
>
> It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
> Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!
>
> It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
> Only the ass hole will have them..
>
> I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..
>
> They really don't care who dies
> even them self..
> That just can't be right.,
>
> Line up mothers and wasting them..
> Fuck up shit
>
> Can't picture it..
>
> Hard to picture..
>
> I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it 
> happens..
> And it happens when you least expect it. And where you least expect it..
>
> MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
> Fuck..
> They really don't..
>
> Its pretty fucked up..
>
> They been in the game so long their brains are fried.
>
> I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that 
> fucked up..
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

From maxx at izmudd.com  Thu Sep  3 19:34:22 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:34:22 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] =?iso-8859-1?q?=28no_subject=29?=
Message-ID: <20090903233422.26567.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

Edward, I have never even stopped to wonder about that. Excellent
question.


 	-------Original Message-------
  From: Edward A. Weissbard
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
  Sent: 03 Sep '09 15:14

  Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the violence was
  minimized before, President Calderon declared "war" against the
  cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I think legalization of some
  sort would be the way to go to reduce some of the the terrible violence
  in Mexico.  I was thinking, did the violence disappear or was reduced in

  the Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in the 30's......I
  wonder if the same model would have the same effect?

  ___________________
  Edward
  [LINK: http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=edwardw at mtciep.com]
edwardw at mtciep.com


  Jeremy Spence wrote:
  > I think it's hopeless over there..
  >
  > I would hate to be involved with the game over there..
  >
  > You have to carry a gun at all times..
  >
  > But yet guns are illegal..
  >
  > It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
  > Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!
  >
  > It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
  > Only the ass hole will have them..
  >
  > I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..
  >
  > They really don't care who dies
  > even them self..
  > That just can't be right.,
  >
  > Line up mothers and wasting them..
  > Fuck up shit
  >
  > Can't picture it..
  >
  > Hard to picture..
  >
  > I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it
  > happens..
  > And it happens when you least expect it. And where you least expect
it..
  >
  > MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
  > Fuck..
  > They really don't..
  >
  > Its pretty fucked up..
  >
  > They been in the game so long their brains are fried.
  >
  > I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that
  > fucked up..
  >
  > J
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
  > (][%]  :: [LINK: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine]
http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 19:50:05 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:50:05 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20090903233422.26567.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090903233422.26567.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <2807DB1E-3EF7-4209-BAD7-204DE206BAD0@gmail.com>

Yea It would..

But the DEA will fight like hell to never see that happen..

They won't give up a pay check that easy.

J

On Sep 3, 2009, at 6:34 PM, "beverly maxx jackson" <maxx at izmudd.com>  
wrote:

>
> Edward, I have never even stopped to wonder about that. Excellent  
> question.
>
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Edward A. Weissbard
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
> Sent: 03 Sep '09 15:14
>
> Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the violence was
> minimized before, President Calderon declared "war" against the
> cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I think legalization of some
> sort would be the way to go to reduce some of the the terrible  
> violence
> in Mexico.  I was thinking, did the violence disappear or was  
> reduced in
> the Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in the 30's......I
> wonder if the same model would have the same effect?
>
> ___________________
> Edward
> edwardw at mtciep.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeremy Spence wrote:
> > I think it's hopeless over there..
> >
> > I would hate to be involved with the game over there..
> >
> > You have to carry a gun at all times..
> >
> > But yet guns are illegal..
> >
> > It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
> > Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!
> >
> > It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
> > Only the ass hole will have them..
> >
> > I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..
> >
> > They really don't care who dies
> > even them self..
> > That just can't be right.,
> >
> > Line up mothers and wasting them..
> > Fuck up shit
> >
> > Can't picture it..
> >
> > Hard to picture..
> >
> > I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it
> > happens..
> > And it happens when you least expect it. And where you least  
> expect it..
> >
> > MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
> > Fuck..
> > They really don't..
> >
> > Its pretty fucked up..
> >
> > They been in the game so long their brains are fried.
> >
> > I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that
> > fucked up..
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> > (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> >  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep  4 09:56:51 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 05:56:51 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] =?iso-8859-1?q?Hcl_better_than_Extract_at_treating_opi?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ate_addiction=2C_what_do_you_think=3F?=
Message-ID: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

  Hi all,

Traversing the internet, I have run across this opinion.
Has anyone with an opiate addiction here been successfully treated with
extract?
Has anyone not?

I know some will only use extract and some only hcl.

Share your experience?

Peace and apple fritters,
B
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From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 10:34:36 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:34:36 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30909040734gf742813l1686f4cbfe1942e0@mail.gmail.com>

ive done both and i really like the extract much better.. it seems to be
easier on you.
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From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep  4 10:51:16 2009
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:51:16 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <9868fdb30909040734gf742813l1686f4cbfe1942e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<9868fdb30909040734gf742813l1686f4cbfe1942e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <112687.22942.qm@web28613.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

It's also a matter of the providers experience; with the different preparations; as to why some one would exclusively work with one type of preparation. I also think that "the reason for treatment" would be an issue in terms of choosing which preparation would be most suitable. But as Lee said there are other benefits from the "fuller" spectrum of alkaloids; some have even reported the positive effects longer lasting than with the isolated ibogaine hcl.



________________________________
From: junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, 4 September, 2009 16:34:36
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction, what do you think?


ive done both and i really like the extract much better.. it seems to be easier on you.


      
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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep  4 11:57:04 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 07:57:04 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Hcl_better_than_Extract_at_treating_opi?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ate_addiction=2C_what_do_you_think=3F?=
Message-ID: <20090904155704.17176.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

Thank you, gentlemen.
Lee, you've done both for opiate withdrawal, if I may ask?

Is hcl standardized? Meaning, one can count on the same strength every
time?
If this sounds ignorant, it's because I've yet to learn. :)

I have heard that TA can vary in 'strength'. I'll be golldanged if I can't
remeber the right terms to use, here.

Peace and gargoyles,
B


  	-------Original Message-------
From: simon loxton
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate
addiction, what do you think?
Sent: 04 Sep '09 06:51


It's also a matter of the providers experience; with the different
preparations; as to why some one would exclusively work with one type of
preparation. I also think that "the reason for treatment" would be an issue
in terms of choosing which preparation would be most suitable. But as Lee
said there are other benefits from the "fuller" spectrum of alkaloids; some
have even reported the positive effects longer lasting than with the
isolated ibogaine hcl.


          --------------------
  FROM: junkboy
TO: The Ibogaine List
SENT: Friday, 4 September, 2009 16:34:36
SUBJECT: Re: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate
addiction, what do you think?


ive done both and i really like the extract much better.. it seems to be
easier on you.


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From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 12:45:00 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:45:00 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <20090904155704.17176.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090904155704.17176.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30909040945y45cdc181xc1b4b6c8cdde6479@mail.gmail.com>

i think the hcl is pretty standardized.. approx 96-98% if i remember right..

>
>
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From roccothetalkingdog at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 15:03:08 2009
From: roccothetalkingdog at yahoo.com (roccothetalkingdog at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:03:08 +0000
Subject: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy
In-Reply-To: <B03E09F6-9D0C-4C27-B7B0-2EBE7AF26DF1@gmail.com>
References: <20090804042927.20045.qmail@s464.sureserver.com><B03E09F6-9D0C-4C27-B7B0-2EBE7AF26DF1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2075877003-1252094725-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1978060816-@bda954.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

UuuYUyt
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 04:12:56 
To: The Ibogaine List<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy



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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep  4 16:14:53 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:14:53 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Broken_really=2C_and_crying=2E_Nor_ealy?=
Message-ID: <20090904201453.15538.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

I'm not getting this, lol.
I posted this original one night when I had far to much to drink. Wonder
why it's being brought up?

Peace and transparency,
Beverly


  	-------Original Message-------
From: roccothetalkingdog at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy
Sent: 04 Sep '09 11:03

UuuYUyt
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Spence <[LINK:
http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=jlspence12 at gmail.com]
jlspence12 at gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 04:12:56
To: The Ibogaine List<[LINK:
http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com]
ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy


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From ibogamail at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 16:58:00 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:58:00 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy
In-Reply-To: <20090904201453.15538.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090904201453.15538.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <4AA17F58.10808@gmail.com>

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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep  4 17:03:31 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:03:31 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Broken_really=2C_and_crying=2E_Nor_ealy?=
Message-ID: <20090904210331.28968.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

Thanks, Matt.
I've never talked to Rocco, so was wondering.

No biggie, I suppose, and yes, I remain a bit embarrassed by my public
outburst.

B


  	-------Original Message-------
From: Matt S
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy
Sent: 04 Sep '09 12:58

You know how when you forget to lock the keypad on your cell phone it
seems to randomly call people from your contacts list while in your pocket?
 Well this looks like what happens when your phone also has email
capability.

Matt

beverly maxx jackson wrote:
I'm not getting this, lol.
I posted this original one night when I had far to much to drink. Wonder
why it's being brought up?

Peace and transparency,
Beverly


  	-------Original Message-------
From: [LINK: mailto:roccothetalkingdog at yahoo.com]
roccothetalkingdog at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy
Sent: 04 Sep '09 11:03

UuuYUyt
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Spence <[LINK:
http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=jlspence12 at gmail.com]
jlspence12 at gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 04:12:56
To: The Ibogaine List<[LINK:
http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com]
ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Broken really, and crying. Nor ealy


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From falleneden1 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 17:37:47 2009
From: falleneden1 at gmail.com (fallen eden)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:37:47 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <9868fdb30909040945y45cdc181xc1b4b6c8cdde6479@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904155704.17176.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<9868fdb30909040945y45cdc181xc1b4b6c8cdde6479@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8999cc760909041437w6b69c9b0rc886c9cb8163ab58@mail.gmail.com>

hcl is fairly standardized from what I've heard, but I'm sure it varies by
lab and the solvents used in the extraction, what equipment is used and the
extraction protocol, etc.. I personally have to give my preference over to
hcl even though it is harsher and more "bizarre" so to speak than the
extract, it also wiped me out for nearly two weeks afterwards with fatigue
and inability to walk more than a four block radius from my house, but it
got the job done and the effects held solid for close to six months.. But I
definitely prefer the "feeling" of extract more; it is a more comfortable
experience for me and I bounced back much more quickly in terms of stamina
(two days or so, compared to two weeks with hcl), but overall I still prefer
hcl because it provided the strongest and most long lasting effects for me
personally.

I think a person's body chemistry could predispose them to react differently
to hcl vs total alkaloid extract.. I've noticed the same schism in treatment
providers where some will only use extract, while others only use hcl,
claiming that theirs is the better method.. I've wondered if anyone has ever
attempted combination therapy (using both hcl and extract during a
treatment)? Coming up with dosing could be hard for something like that, but
maybe it could give the benefits of the standardized hcl in addition to the
roundedness of the extract.

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:45 AM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:

> i think the hcl is pretty standardized.. approx 96-98% if i remember
> right..
>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep  4 18:04:36 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:04:36 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Hcl_better_than_Extract_at_treating_opi?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ate_addiction=2C_what_do_you_think=3F?=
Message-ID: <20090904220436.18314.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

Fallen,
Thanks for that.
I wonder, too about combination.
Got RootBark TA 30x? lol.....
Heck, if we can think of it now, I'll bet it's been done.
At least Twice. ;)


  	-------Original Message-------
From: fallen eden
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate
addiction, what do you think?
Sent: 04 Sep '09 13:37


hcl is fairly standardized from what I've heard, but I'm sure it varies by
lab and the solvents used in the extraction, what equipment is used and the
extraction protocol, etc.. I personally have to give my preference over to
hcl even though it is harsher and more "bizarre" so to speak than the
extract, it also wiped me out for nearly two weeks afterwards with fatigue
and inability to walk more than a four block radius from my house, but it
got the job done and the effects held solid for close to six months.. But I
definitely prefer the "feeling" of extract more; it is a more comfortable
experience for me and I bounced back much more quickly in terms of stamina
(two days or so, compared to two weeks with hcl), but overall I still
prefer hcl because it provided the strongest and most long lasting effects
for me personally.

I think a person's body chemistry could predispose them to react
differently to hcl vs total alkaloid extract.. I've noticed the same schism
in treatment providers where some will only use extract, while others only
use hcl, claiming that theirs is the better method.. I've wondered if
anyone has ever attempted combination therapy (using both hcl and extract
during a treatment)? Coming up with dosing could be hard for something like
that, but maybe it could give the benefits of the standardized hcl in
addition to the roundedness of the extract.


On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:45 AM, junkboy <[LINK:
mailto:junkboy64 at gmail.com] junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
  i think the hcl is pretty standardized.. approx 96-98% if i remember
right..


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From falleneden1 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 18:49:18 2009
From: falleneden1 at gmail.com (fallen eden)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 15:49:18 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <20090904220436.18314.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090904220436.18314.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <8999cc760909041549n3e6702b5pa41350f8ac0c8802@mail.gmail.com>

I did read one treatment protocol on the dossier for detoxing a man on 200mg
methadone using primarily extract in combination with hcl.. it involved two
large floods of extract with 100mg hcl boosts in between the two floods, it
seemed like the detox took several days.. I've never read anything else
about using both before though, I wonder if anyone else has tried that kind
of treatment modality

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:04 PM, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>wrote:

>
> Fallen,
> Thanks for that.
> I wonder, too about combination.
> Got RootBark TA 30x? lol.....
> Heck, if we can think of it now, I'll bet it's been done.
> At least Twice. ;)
>    -------Original Message-------
> From: fallen eden
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate
> addiction, what do you think?
>  Sent: 04 Sep '09 13:37
>
> hcl is fairly standardized from what I've heard, but I'm sure it varies by
> lab and the solvents used in the extraction, what equipment is used and the
> extraction protocol, etc.. I personally have to give my preference over to
> hcl even though it is harsher and more "bizarre" so to speak than the
> extract, it also wiped me out for nearly two weeks afterwards with fatigue
> and inability to walk more than a four block radius from my house, but it
> got the job done and the effects held solid for close to six months.. But I
> definitely prefer the "feeling" of extract more; it is a more comfortable
> experience for me and I bounced back much more quickly in terms of stamina
> (two days or so, compared to two weeks with hcl), but overall I still prefer
> hcl because it provided the strongest and most long lasting effects for me
> personally.
>
> I think a person's body chemistry could predispose them to react
> differently to hcl vs total alkaloid extract.. I've noticed the same schism
> in treatment providers where some will only use extract, while others only
> use hcl, claiming that theirs is the better method.. I've wondered if anyone
> has ever attempted combination therapy (using both hcl and extract during a
> treatment)? Coming up with dosing could be hard for something like that, but
> maybe it could give the benefits of the standardized hcl in addition to the
> roundedness of the extract.
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:45 AM, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i think the hcl is pretty standardized.. approx 96-98% if i remember
>> right..
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
> ------------------------------
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From maxx at izmudd.com  Sat Sep  5 00:10:07 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 20:10:07 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] =?iso-8859-1?q?Shamanic_Extracs_Iboga_seeds=2E=2E=2Ean?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ybody_ordered_these=3F?=
Message-ID: <20090905041007.987.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

  I have been thinking how loverly it would be to have one of these plants
to nurture.
Has anyone any experience with this product from this business?
They say no shipping restrictions as well.

It's a warm, full moon night in southern California. Summer is leaving,
always makes me just a little sad.

Peace and salamanders,
Beverly
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 00:59:22 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 23:59:22 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Shamanic Extracs Iboga seeds...anybody ordered these?
In-Reply-To: <20090905041007.987.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090905041007.987.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <58965837-16A6-45D9-9528-5A4C8D78CE63@gmail.com>

Yes, they can be tricky to grow..


Not impossible..

But hard for some..

J

On Sep 4, 2009, at 11:10 PM, "beverly maxx jackson" <maxx at izmudd.com>  
wrote:

>
> I have been thinking how loverly it would be to have one of these  
> plants to nurture.
> Has anyone any experience with this product from this business?
> They say no shipping restrictions as well.
>
> It's a warm, full moon night in southern California. Summer is  
> leaving, always makes me just a little sad.
>
> Peace and salamanders,
> Beverly
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 01:14:05 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 00:14:05 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Shamanic Extracs Iboga seeds...anybody ordered these?
In-Reply-To: <20090905041007.987.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090905041007.987.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <49111D97-43C6-40DD-9757-B91F64E5AE71@gmail.com>

Dont buy from them..

I got a better link..

I get it to you..

J

On Sep 4, 2009, at 11:10 PM, "beverly maxx jackson" <maxx at izmudd.com>  
wrote:

>
> I have been thinking how loverly it would be to have one of these  
> plants to nurture.
> Has anyone any experience with this product from this business?
> They say no shipping restrictions as well.
>
> It's a warm, full moon night in southern California. Summer is  
> leaving, always makes me just a little sad.
>
> Peace and salamanders,
> Beverly
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From ibogamail at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 01:18:48 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 23:18:48 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Shamanic Extracs Iboga seeds...anybody ordered these?
In-Reply-To: <20090905041007.987.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090905041007.987.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <4AA1F4B8.2070509@gmail.com>

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From maxx at izmudd.com  Sat Sep  5 01:54:22 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:54:22 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Shamanic_Extracs_Iboga_seeds=2E=2E=2Ean?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ybody_ordered_these=3F?=
Message-ID: <20090905055422.21714.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

  Thanks, Matt. Appreciated.
Jeremy, thank you.


 	-------Original Message-------
  From: Matt S
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Shamanic Extracs Iboga seeds...anybody ordered
these?
  Sent: 04 Sep '09 21:18

          I have bought seeds from them before.  None germinated.  I have
bought  iboga root bark from them before too and it was not really iboga.
I  would not order from them again and I suggest that you don't either.

  Matt

  beverly maxx jackson wrote:
  I have been thinking how loverly it would be to have one of these
plants to nurture.
  Has anyone any experience with this product from this business?
  They say no shipping restrictions as well.

  It's a warm, full moon night in southern California. Summer is leaving,
always makes me just a little sad.

  Peace and salamanders,
  Beverly


          --------------------


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From helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 06:54:20 2009
From: helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com (Helpful Hopeful)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 03:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been clean of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.  I'd like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract because I believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the "spirit" of the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one single active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with iboga), and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get more benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by extracting the mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it definitely takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the cacti experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full range of alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those with other health
 problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or more difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have never been one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic experience.  Hope this helps!




________________________________
From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 9:56:51 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction, what do you think?


Hi all,

Traversing the internet, I have run across this opinion.
Has anyone with an opiate addiction here been successfully treated with extract?
Has anyone not?

I know some will only use extract and some only hcl.

Share your experience?

Peace and apple fritters,
B


      
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From bicuitboy714 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 11:00:16 2009
From: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com (Randy Faulconer)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:00:16 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4AA04DBC.60809@mtciep.com>
References: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com>
	<4AA04DBC.60809@mtciep.com>
Message-ID: <29d165a30909050800jc105e12k93430b3ed555725e@mail.gmail.com>

         Hey Edward, that's a good question. I think that the violence went
down after Prohibition was done away with.

         I'm a big time gun right advocate. I was taught how to use one and
what it is for by the age of 8 years old down on my families farm. Matter of
fact I was almost drummed out of the Ibo corps because I shot the racoon
that was eating my mother's Guinea hens. I got home one day and she came up
to me crying saying that her Ms Fancy got eaten by this racoon the night
before. (my mother very seldom cries so it freaked me out) I went inside and
got my shotgun and went to the edge of the woods behind the Guinea house.
The racoon walked right to me. It was meant to be. I was looking up in the
trees thinking that I will never get that racoon with all of these trees
here when I heard some leaves rustle so I froze and there it was.

         For doing that some people I know said that I wasn't right for
Ibogaine, I shouldn't be a provider I was too violent. Now, this dude didn't
grow up like I did, I was taught to take care of things that were killing
your animals or ruining your crops. Pure and simple. Why was that wrong?? I
have as much love for people as he dose, and probably more. talking about
being judgmental. Damn!!

               Peace Love and Rimfires
                        Randy
                           BiscuitBoy Blues

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Edward A. Weissbard <edwardw at mtciep.com>wrote:

> Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the violence was
> minimized before, President Calderon declared "war" against the
> cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I think legalization of some sort
> would be the way to go to reduce some of the the terrible violence in
> Mexico.  I was thinking, did the violence disappear or was reduced in the
> Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in the 30's......I wonder if
> the same model would have the same effect?
>
> ___________________
> Edward edwardw at mtciep.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>> I think it's hopeless over there..
>>
>> I would hate to be involved with the game over there..
>>
>> You have to carry a gun at all times..
>>
>> But yet guns are illegal..
>>
>> It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
>> Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!
>>
>> It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
>> Only the ass hole will have them..
>>
>> I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..
>>
>> They really don't care who dies
>> even them self..
>> That just can't be right.,
>>
>> Line up mothers and wasting them..
>> Fuck up shit
>>
>> Can't picture it..
>>
>> Hard to picture..
>>
>> I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it
>> happens..
>> And it happens when you least expect it. And where you least expect it..
>>
>> MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
>> Fuck..
>> They really don't..
>>
>> Its pretty fucked up..
>>
>> They been in the game so long their brains are fried.
>>
>> I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that fucked
>> up..
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>
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From halyna at isp01.net  Sat Sep  5 11:25:30 2009
From: halyna at isp01.net (Halyna)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 05:25:30 -1000
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
References: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com><4AA04DBC.60809@mtciep.com>
	<29d165a30909050800jc105e12k93430b3ed555725e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED08F051898D4E07B394520CA24FEF26@D8TJ74B1>

Don't know who judged you but I absolutely agree with you: whatever it takes!
To do nothing would be negligent; given the nature of the situation your course of action was right.
Halyna
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Randy Faulconer 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)


           Hey Edward, that's a good question. I think that the violence went down after Prohibition was done away with.

           I'm a big time gun right advocate. I was taught how to use one and what it is for by the age of 8 years old down on my families farm. Matter of fact I was almost drummed out of the Ibo corps because I shot the racoon that was eating my mother's Guinea hens. I got home one day and she came up to me crying saying that her Ms Fancy got eaten by this racoon the night before. (my mother very seldom cries so it freaked me out) I went inside and got my shotgun and went to the edge of the woods behind the Guinea house. The racoon walked right to me. It was meant to be. I was looking up in the trees thinking that I will never get that racoon with all of these trees here when I heard some leaves rustle so I froze and there it was.

           For doing that some people I know said that I wasn't right for Ibogaine, I shouldn't be a provider I was too violent. Now, this dude didn't grow up like I did, I was taught to take care of things that were killing your animals or ruining your crops. Pure and simple. Why was that wrong?? I have as much love for people as he dose, and probably more. talking about being judgmental. Damn!!

                 Peace Love and Rimfires
                          Randy
                             BiscuitBoy Blues


  On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Edward A. Weissbard <edwardw at mtciep.com> wrote:

    Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the violence was minimized before, President Calderon declared "war" against the cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I think legalization of some sort would be the way to go to reduce some of the the terrible violence in Mexico.  I was thinking, did the violence disappear or was reduced in the Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in the 30's......I wonder if the same model would have the same effect?

    ___________________
    Edward edwardw at mtciep.com 






    Jeremy Spence wrote:

      I think it's hopeless over there..

      I would hate to be involved with the game over there..

      You have to carry a gun at all times..

      But yet guns are illegal..

      It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
      Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!

      It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
      Only the ass hole will have them..

      I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..

      They really don't care who dies
      even them self..
      That just can't be right.,

      Line up mothers and wasting them..
      Fuck up shit

      Can't picture it..

      Hard to picture..

      I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it happens..
      And it happens when you least expect it. And where you least expect it..

      MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
      Fuck..
      They really don't..

      Its pretty fucked up..

      They been in the game so long their brains are fried.

      I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that fucked up..

      J
















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From halyna at isp01.net  Sat Sep  5 11:25:30 2009
From: halyna at isp01.net (Halyna)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 05:25:30 -1000
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
References: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com><4AA04DBC.60809@mtciep.com>
	<29d165a30909050800jc105e12k93430b3ed555725e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED08F051898D4E07B394520CA24FEF26@D8TJ74B1>

Don't know who judged you but I absolutely agree with you: whatever it takes!
To do nothing would be negligent; given the nature of the situation your course of action was right.
Halyna
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Randy Faulconer 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)


           Hey Edward, that's a good question. I think that the violence went down after Prohibition was done away with.

           I'm a big time gun right advocate. I was taught how to use one and what it is for by the age of 8 years old down on my families farm. Matter of fact I was almost drummed out of the Ibo corps because I shot the racoon that was eating my mother's Guinea hens. I got home one day and she came up to me crying saying that her Ms Fancy got eaten by this racoon the night before. (my mother very seldom cries so it freaked me out) I went inside and got my shotgun and went to the edge of the woods behind the Guinea house. The racoon walked right to me. It was meant to be. I was looking up in the trees thinking that I will never get that racoon with all of these trees here when I heard some leaves rustle so I froze and there it was.

           For doing that some people I know said that I wasn't right for Ibogaine, I shouldn't be a provider I was too violent. Now, this dude didn't grow up like I did, I was taught to take care of things that were killing your animals or ruining your crops. Pure and simple. Why was that wrong?? I have as much love for people as he dose, and probably more. talking about being judgmental. Damn!!

                 Peace Love and Rimfires
                          Randy
                             BiscuitBoy Blues


  On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Edward A. Weissbard <edwardw at mtciep.com> wrote:

    Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the violence was minimized before, President Calderon declared "war" against the cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I think legalization of some sort would be the way to go to reduce some of the the terrible violence in Mexico.  I was thinking, did the violence disappear or was reduced in the Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in the 30's......I wonder if the same model would have the same effect?

    ___________________
    Edward edwardw at mtciep.com 






    Jeremy Spence wrote:

      I think it's hopeless over there..

      I would hate to be involved with the game over there..

      You have to carry a gun at all times..

      But yet guns are illegal..

      It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
      Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!

      It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
      Only the ass hole will have them..

      I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..

      They really don't care who dies
      even them self..
      That just can't be right.,

      Line up mothers and wasting them..
      Fuck up shit

      Can't picture it..

      Hard to picture..

      I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it happens..
      And it happens when you least expect it. And where you least expect it..

      MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
      Fuck..
      They really don't..

      Its pretty fucked up..

      They been in the game so long their brains are fried.

      I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that fucked up..

      J
















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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Sat Sep  5 11:55:09 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:55:09 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <ED08F051898D4E07B394520CA24FEF26@D8TJ74B1>
References: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com><4AA04DBC.60809@mtciep.com>	<29d165a30909050800jc105e12k93430b3ed555725e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ED08F051898D4E07B394520CA24FEF26@D8TJ74B1>
Message-ID: <4AA289DD.5010007@mtciep.com>

Yeah Randy, I assumed the violence did decrease after prohibition was 
lifted.

I myself am not a big gun fan, but there are times where your gonna have 
to pick up arms for survival and protection sakes, understand your 
thoughts in that past situation. 

Peace,

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Halyna wrote:
> Don't know who judged you but I absolutely agree with you: whatever it 
> takes!
> To do nothing would be negligent; given the nature of the situation 
> your course of action was right.
> Halyna
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Randy Faulconer <mailto:bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>     *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>     *Sent:* Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:00 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>
>              Hey Edward, that's a good question. I think that the
>     violence went down after Prohibition was done away with.
>      
>              I'm a big time gun right advocate. I was taught how to
>     use one and what it is for by the age of 8 years old down on my
>     families farm. Matter of fact I was almost drummed out of the Ibo
>     corps because I shot the racoon that was eating my mother's Guinea
>     hens. I got home one day and she came up to me crying saying that
>     her Ms Fancy got eaten by this racoon the night before. (my mother
>     very seldom cries so it freaked me out) I went inside and got my
>     shotgun and went to the edge of the woods behind the Guinea house.
>     The racoon walked right to me. It was meant to be. I was looking
>     up in the trees thinking that I will never get that racoon with
>     all of these trees here when I heard some leaves rustle so I froze
>     and there it was.
>      
>              For doing that some people I know said that I wasn't
>     right for Ibogaine, I shouldn't be a provider I was too violent.
>     Now, this dude didn't grow up like I did, I was taught to take
>     care of things that were killing your animals or ruining your
>     crops. Pure and simple. Why was that wrong?? I have as much love
>     for people as he dose, and probably more. talking about being
>     judgmental. Damn!!
>      
>                    Peace Love and Rimfires
>                             Randy
>                                BiscuitBoy Blues
>
>     On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Edward A. Weissbard
>     <edwardw at mtciep.com <mailto:edwardw at mtciep.com>> wrote:
>
>         Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the
>         violence was minimized before, President Calderon declared
>         "war" against the cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I
>         think legalization of some sort would be the way to go to
>         reduce some of the the terrible violence in Mexico.  I was
>         thinking, did the violence disappear or was reduced in the
>         Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in the
>         30's......I wonder if the same model would have the same effect?
>
>         ___________________
>         Edward edwardw at mtciep.com <mailto:edwardw at mtciep.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>             I think it's hopeless over there..
>
>             I would hate to be involved with the game over there..
>
>             You have to carry a gun at all times..
>
>             But yet guns are illegal..
>
>             It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
>             Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!
>
>             It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
>             Only the ass hole will have them..
>
>             I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..
>
>             They really don't care who dies
>             even them self..
>             That just can't be right.,
>
>             Line up mothers and wasting them..
>             Fuck up shit
>
>             Can't picture it..
>
>             Hard to picture..
>
>             I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but
>             I know it happens..
>             And it happens when you least expect it. And where you
>             least expect it..
>
>             MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
>             Fuck..
>             They really don't..
>
>             Its pretty fucked up..
>
>             They been in the game so long their brains are fried.
>
>             I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of
>             becoming that fucked up..
>
>             J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>              -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>             (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::
>              [%][)
>              -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>          -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>   

From izmudd at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 16:07:22 2009
From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 13:07:22 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>

That does help.
:)
Thank you all.
Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?
Suboxone and TA? H and TA?


On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
<helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:

> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been clean
> of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.  I'd
> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract because I
> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the "spirit" of
> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one single
> active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more
> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with iboga),
> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get more
> benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by extracting the
> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it definitely
> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the cacti
> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full range of
> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those with other
> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or more
> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have never been
> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic
> experience.  Hope this helps!
>
>
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From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 17:59:29 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 15:59:29 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30909051459v263dbb5fwf3b309bd6e7d5ad1@mail.gmail.com>

i also got off 2mg a day of suboxone with extract.
lee
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 19:45:35 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 18:45:35 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <ED08F051898D4E07B394520CA24FEF26@D8TJ74B1>
References: <BFD5BF5D-7A75-48A1-9CD8-19CE3EF49D08@gmail.com><4AA04DBC.60809@mtciep.com>
	<29d165a30909050800jc105e12k93430b3ed555725e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ED08F051898D4E07B394520CA24FEF26@D8TJ74B1>
Message-ID: <2B6CC71C-ABA5-4531-BDA1-1D3E0EA27F4A@gmail.com>

Nothing!! You solved a problem

To many people are too judgemental..
I try not to judge anybody

You don't know the full story ..
Even MJs doctor,

I don't judge him .. I think he's stupid, but I don't judge him.

I think he should thought of the worst before it happen..

And had a ALS bag right there the whole time..

I would have if it was me..
Oxygen the works..

How the fuck did he think he was going to give all that shit with a od??

All through IV..

And not having everything there to being him back..
No way..

That's what I jugde him for..
He should had it all ready to go, right there.

And a heart needle as well!!
Ready to jump start that mother fuckers heart..

That's what I'm kind of shity about..

The mixing and matching of all those meds. I won't even drink coffee  
with my adderal anymore..

No mixing drugs..
I don't mix shit anymore, I just don't..

It's not safe..

Any docs knows you don't mix meds that both do the same thing..
U just don'T

And if you do, you got ALS ready to go.. Right there, the whole time..  
Watching, the whole time..

You can't leave, you just can't..
Got got to sit there ready to go if something happens..

He could have lived if he had been better perpared.. I don't blame the  
dealth on the doc totally. I think Jacko, was going "to find a way" to  
sleep forever..

I don't think he could live with his self..
It was bound to happen sooner or later..

It's so sad it had to be all blamed on a doc..

Because jacko was going to find a way to be fucked to hell. I don't  
think there was any saving that dude..

When poeple are that determed to kill them selfs there reallly no  
stoping them..

But I think there should be better inter vention.. However, It would  
have taken a certain speical person to put up with that BS....

I think I would tried to at least tell him every day, you can't do  
this to your self..

I don't think he had anybody who really gave a damm.. I don't  
understand poeple greed.

I really don't..

I guess I been quite humbled.. And at a young age..

I was always a good person in own way, I had a rare find for a mother  
also. So I think that mattered also..
I think when the mother fucked up, it hurts a lot more to the kid..  
The father can be fucked up, and I won't effect a kid near as bad..  
Depending on how fucked up and how much abuse is dished out??
And if both parents are fucked up and abusive, you may have just made  
a natural born killer on your hands??

But going through my illness made me even more aware of un thinkable  
suffering..

So in a way I made me a beter person.. But on the other hand it made  
me insurcure and closed in and able to form close rel.(hey, still can,  
on the internet!!!  (Crazy, loony to some, but quite true) I at least  
feel safer on the Internet., hard for poeple to fly over and clean you  
out "phyically.."
That's what I could not stand about the drug game. My town is fucked!!
I don't know why?? But it's jack, jack, jack' de jack!!
And thosevpoeple lived for it!!
I could not understand it.
I guess I happen to meet the worst poeple in my small town..
I understand a 20 here a 20 there, but that not how it went..

It's call 1500 dollar TV here, 1500 dollar sterio here, 600 dollars  
here.
These poeple were ruthless..

When got involved with these fuckers I really didn't fully understand  
how fucked up these poeple would go..

I telling you, If your in the game at all in my town, you beter be  
packing some heat..
You better!!! Or don't fuck with it, period, end of story, and to tell  
you the truth, that probably not going to help you, because these  
poeple strike when you not there..
And act real nice, but are total scum..

Its so fucked up., it's sad shite..

I'm still not over all of it, and I will never that stupid again..
If I feel one horrible fribe, I'm out..
I'm not fucking with them..
I only fuck with poeple in real life I know.. Realky well anymore.
I'm done getting cleaned out..
I reather be alone, then deal with that..
It's sad, but it's how it is...



I still curse my illness to hell..

But I do think it made me care more about true suffering..
I don't think I would cared near as much..
I mean, some times that's all you can do is tell a person you at least  
care..

Was tought in my Emt class, to not make comemts..
It doesn't help..

If you get to a point you think you can share something, then so be it..

Be saying, BS like god got a plan, go find god, it all for god, at  
least you got the other arm still intact, or leg, you got you dick  
blown the fuck off by that car bomb, you can always use strap on..


None of that helps when a person going through incredible loss.

We've all done it..
But think just being as supportful as you can, and try to give support  
by a hug or a touch of the hand is about all you can do..

Saying all this shit is just going to piss poeple off more. Then your  
not helping nobody..

I know, it's been done to me..
And i've done it also..

I think the least helpful choice of words is "go find god.."

I had one of horrible exs say that to me, and I still hate her for  
that BS..

But it's my fault, I should said fuvk it..
We are done,, and left it as that..
We had a great time!!! It was real fun!!
But now it's in fuck it mode..

If I had it to do again, I said "fuck it"

I still had this fucked up belief back then I could stop a person from  
leaving by some semi meaningful words, or acts or other by means..

I believed what they portray in movies all the time..
I guess for a extremely lucky few, Maybe.. And anymore, I don't even  
believe that..

I sorry if this was off topic, just writing Normal BS that on my mind..

J





J

On Sep 5, 2009, at 10:25 AM, "Halyna" <halyna at isp01.net> wrote:

> Don't know who judged you but I absolutely agree with you: whatever  
> it takes!
> To do nothing would be negligent; given the nature of the situation  
> your course of action was right.
> Halyna
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy Faulconer
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>
>          Hey Edward, that's a good question. I think that the  
> violence went down after Prohibition was done away with.
>
>          I'm a big time gun right advocate. I was taught how to use  
> one and what it is for by the age of 8 years old down on my families  
> farm. Matter of fact I was almost drummed out of the Ibo corps  
> because I shot the racoon that was eating my mother's Guinea hens. I  
> got home one day and she came up to me crying saying that her Ms  
> Fancy got eaten by this racoon the night before. (my mother very  
> seldom cries so it freaked me out) I went inside and got my shotgun  
> and went to the edge of the woods behind the Guinea house. The  
> racoon walked right to me. It was meant to be. I was looking up in  
> the trees thinking that I will never get that racoon with all of  
> these trees here when I heard some leaves rustle so I froze and  
> there it was.
>
>          For doing that some people I know said that I wasn't right  
> for Ibogaine, I shouldn't be a provider I was too violent. Now, this  
> dude didn't grow up like I did, I was taught to take care of things  
> that were killing your animals or ruining your crops. Pure and  
> simple. Why was that wrong?? I have as much love for people as he  
> dose, and probably more. talking about being judgmental. Damn!!
>
>                Peace Love and Rimfires
>                         Randy
>                            BiscuitBoy Blues
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Edward A. Weissbard <edwardw at mtciep.com 
> > wrote:
> Yeah, seems hopeless down there.  I think at least the violence was  
> minimized before, President Calderon declared "war" against the  
> cartels....seems like he made it worse.  I think legalization of  
> some sort would be the way to go to reduce some of the the terrible  
> violence in Mexico.  I was thinking, did the violence disappear or  
> was reduced in the Chicago area after prohibition was lifted back in  
> the 30's......I wonder if the same model would have the same effect?
>
> ___________________
> Edward edwardw at mtciep.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeremy Spence wrote:
> I think it's hopeless over there..
>
> I would hate to be involved with        the game over there..
>
> You have to carry a gun at all times..
>
> But yet guns are illegal..
>
> It just shows you what making guns illegal does..
> Only the hardest of crimals will have them!!
>
> It show the US what happens when you take away gun rights..
> Only the ass hole will have them..
>
> I just can't believe have cold those mothers fuckers are..
>
> They really don't care who dies
> even them self..
> That just can't be right.,
>
> Line up mothers and wasting them..
> Fuck up shit
>
> Can't picture it..
>
> Hard to picture..
>
> I've been lucky I have not had to see shit like that, but I know it  
> happens..
> And it happens when you least        expect it. And where you least  
> expect it..
>
> MX crazy.. They Just dont just a give a
> Fuck..
> They really don't..
>
> Its pretty fucked up..
>
> They been in the game so long their brains are fried.
>
> I been pretty fucked up, but I can't even think of becoming that  
> fucked up..
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From luke.christoffersen at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 23:34:44 2009
From: luke.christoffersen at gmail.com (Luke C)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 04:34:44 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
In-Reply-To: <432889.19216.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4c90d90908261334q4db15d1ev5347c0f58e0b852a@mail.gmail.com>
	<432889.19216.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4c90d90909052034w44899861va14445450af0d190@mail.gmail.com>

HI Jim,
         Sorry for the late reply. I'm not quite well too keep up with all
the posts. There's so much info
there I have to keep from fueling my own paranoid rage but keep an eye out
to what goes on in the world
while I try to sort my own life out. I'd love to be aware of everything but,
alas that is too much to expect.
I'm just reading general kind of things about what's going on at the moment.
Just finished a book called,
McMafia, about global crime that was very interesting and started on called
The post american world, though
I'm interested in all sorts of other more pleasurable things like music and
creativity and fullfillment
Luke

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:03 AM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> By the way Jeffery Smith is on tonight at 10:00 and again at 1:00 am.
>
> at rense.com
>
>
> Hi Luke,
>
> One of my favorites is "The CIA and the cult of Intelligence" by an ex-
> agent.  I forget his name.  I remember reading it in college is Pol Sci.
> And we had a communist teacher.  He told the class he was a communist
> and he had some pretty good reasons.  Remember this was during Nixon
> and the missing 18 minutes of tape.  I am not a communist but I
> learned a lot from the man.  I haven't read a book in a while for I have
> trouble reading sometimes as it seem rough on the eyes and my
> concentration is not what it used to be.  I have to re-read it because
> I forget who did what and things like that.  But I will keep and eye out.
>
> There is a guy called Jim Marrs, he is a 'real'  journalist the kind that
> ask tough questions and knows the answer and will say that's a lie.
> He writes books that are so complex I give up on them.  He acts like
> a country bumpkin but writes a book that is over my head - thick books
> too.  Yea, reminds me of Lt. Columbo. One is "Ruled by Conspiracy"
> where he will tell you who married who and such.  He also has a web
> page.  I would say get the books at the library - why pay $25 or more.
> Also, there is one called "The Dumbing Down of America - very good.
> And one that will scare the hell out of ya called "Seeds of Deception"
> by Jeffery Smith which tells how Monsanto in taking over the world food
> supply.  What I mean is all food will come from Monsanto and most
> will be GM.  It tells of the dangers - just read the first chapter.  Want a
>
> quick movie try "The World according to Monsanto" you can DL it for
> free from thepriatebay.org .  Then there is a new one just out about
> UKULTRA and how they kept women drugged for like 90 days and erased
> their memory.  The Doc would give them ECT 2 or 3 times a day for 30
> days and things like that.
>
> Tell me exactly what your interested in.
>
> UKUltra where they torture people and do mind control experiments
> some of the guys would take turns spiking their friends drinks with LSD.
> That's the one where the guy jumps out of the window.
>
> The food supply and the dangers of GM food.
>
> Webster Griffin Tarply  wrote two on Obama in the last year.
>
> Or how the CIA and Navy tested out biological agents on US
> citizens in the  New York subway and again with a navy ship
> off the cost of San Francisco.
>
> If you Goggle a subject you may see who wrote a book about
> whatever.
>
> If you Google Gulf of Tokin (Token?) either one will work.  It has
> been declassified and it shows that the Vietnam War was a hoax.
> Damn, the Vietnam was was a hoax based on a lie - just like the
> Iraq war.
>
> If you tell me what your interested in I will drop you a line when
> I see a subject you may be interested in.  Also, Marrs and a
> few others appears as guests on rense .com.    There is a place
> where you can log in for free but sometimes they are too crowded.
> What time zone are you in??
>
> You are searching for the truth, I can understand that.  But it can
> be hard to take.  Like those pics with babies with their brains out
> of their heads, remember the one with the big red eyes and the
> one with four stumps for limbs.  The truth can be ugly.  Du is that
> bad and the troops will be sick.  I think close to half of those who
> went to fight in Iraq in 1990 or 91 are now on disability.  It also
> makes the wife and sometimes kids sick.  The same will happen
> to those over there now -  some on their 3rd tour.
>
> If your sure you want to go there tell me what interests you and I
> will keep an eye out.
>
> Later,
>
>   - JIM
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security
> payments
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 4:34 PM
>
>
> Thanks Jim,
>                 I'm just trying to be more aware of what's going on in the
> world.  The more of the coruption that get's exposed the better.
> Any books worth reading? i perfer reading a book than staring at the screen
> for ages.
>
> Luke
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Luke,
>>
>> I didn't know you were so interested but your quite welcome.  I will drop
>> you and e-mail next time she will be talking on Rense . com.  The rand
>> corp is one of the bad ones, when I sad bad it is bad.
>>
>> As far as the soldiers paying their own way home from Germany
>> here is an example Goggle us soldiers pay own way home from German
>>
>> 1st  to pop up
>> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081017183521AAf1nO9
>>
>> Do US Army soldiers have to pay for flights home for R & R when stationed
>> in Korea? My son is in Korea for one year, and is allowed his 2 weeks R&R
>> in the end of December. He wants to come back home to the states. Does he
>> have to pay his own way to get home or does the army get him home?
>>
>>    - 10 months ago
>>
>>
>> Since Korea is not a deployment, transportation is not provided by DOD. He
>> will have to pay, or he can try and fly space A.
>> _____________________________
>> WASHINGTON -- In an effort to bolster military morale, the Pentagon soon
>> will begin paying travel expenses for troops to get all the way home on
>> leave from Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>
>> The cost of that extra leg for tens of thousands of soldiers: $55 million.
>>
>>
>> Until now, the largest R&R program since the Vietnam War has flown
>> soldiers only to three cities in the United States and two in Germany,
>> leaving them to pay airfare for connecting flights if they want to go
>> farther.
>>
>> Some airlines offered discount fares to help, and a congressman started a
>> program
>> in which Americans donated millions of their frequent flyer miles for
>> service members
>> to use to get home.
>>
>> But officials said Tuesday they were working up a plan for the Defense
>> Department to begin reimbursing troops for the connecting flights with the
>> $55 million authorized recently by Congress for the coming year. (snip/...)
>>
>>
>> www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x249951
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Wow, maybe the government was embarrassed and a congressman started
>> a program she should no of had to.  Could the day come when we just have
>> our guys parachute in and kill all they can let let then die or starvation
>> or sickness.
>> Why send a plane and spend $1000 for fuel - let them live off the land or
>> die??
>>
>> I will let ya know next time Laurn will be on Rense .
>>
>> Oh you know something funny.  When we did the shock and awe thing and
>> bombed the shit out of them.  Two weeks later the radiation dectors went
>> crazy.  The DU traveled from Iraq it the UK.  Then some company, I forget
>> which one bought the company that had the radiation alarms and suppressed
>> the information.  Not sure if that was the RAND or not.  But yea Rand is
>> the
>> close with the powers that be like Kissinger, Brzezinski and all the Nixon
>> - Bush
>> gang.  If I remember correctly it was about 1972 or so that Nixon went to
>> China
>> with a good deal - you can take our manufacturing jobs.  The company will
>> pay
>> a dollar or two  (no benefits) and the citizens will have money and you
>> will get
>> half back  through taxes.  Your citizens have jobs, you tax them, the
>> American corporations will save billions.  It is a win-win for everyone
>> except
>> the UAW and those guys who are over paid, no good and lazy and really just
>> useless eaters .
>>
>> Oh, never Goggle mkultra  the sleeping room.   Yes, Rand is... well it is
>> kind of hard
>> to tell if it is a company or a U.S. operation as well as a company.  The
>> CIA
>> and companies go hand in hand.  Rand is about as dirty as it gets.  I will
>> let you know
>> when Lauren is on rense.
>>
>> Best to ya,
>>
>>   - Luke
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security
>> payments
>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> >
>> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 8:31 AM
>>
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>         I'll look up Leuren Moret, I haven't heard of her but I guess you
>> wouldn't  would you.  Not suprising she lost her
>> government job. Seems to be some of her talks on youtube. when does she
>> speak on that site?
>>
>> When I looked up Depleted uranium it said there was an independant
>> non-profit company that did tests
>> and found it to be quite safe.  It was called RAND so I looked them up and
>> staff mentioned were Donald Rumsfeld and Henry
>> Kinssinger. Hmm didn't reconise the other names but their probably scum
>> too.
>>
>> I never heard that one about soldier having to buy plane tickets. I don't
>> think any warring nation through history ever gave a
>> damn about their soldiers, just cannon fodder that's all.
>>
>> Luke
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Luke,
>>>
>>> I have seen a few of these.   Kinda funny, you think something as sick as
>>> this
>>> would make 60 minutes etc. but haven't read or heard about it except for
>>> the
>>> et.  They are using the stuff by the ton, and hundreds of tons.  There is
>>> a very
>>> smart lady who worked with it in a way but then said NO, you guys are
>>> nuts
>>> I can not push or condone this stuff being used.  Well there goes that
>>> job - a
>>> scientist with the government, *Lauren* Moret.  I did talk to her via
>>> e-mail once.
>>> I believe she may of been a teacher in California.  She sometimes  has a
>>> column in the SF Gate a San Francisco paper.  She will tell you how they
>>> polluted
>>> Hawaii (she lives there), that they knew this stuff is as bad as it is
>>> long ago , also
>>> against the Geneva Convention - for the pollution last for 3 1/2  Billion
>>>
>>> ( not a type o - Billion ) years.  There is no way to clean up the nano
>>> particles.  When
>>> they say we did not know it caused cancer, yes they did. Lauren told
>>> then, they
>>> pretended not to hear.  But if I know it causes cancer you think all the
>>> generals
>>> and Sergeants would know.  Not to mention a few doc and scientists.
>>> Guess this
>>> is the new Agent Orange.  They could call it DP - IR for infinite
>>> release.
>>>
>>> If your really interested you can check out her web site or if you would
>>> like to
>>> hear her talk for an hour I can tell you when and where.  She is a guest
>>> on
>>> Rense.com and I try never to miss her.  For some reason I am interested
>>> in
>>> things like this - strange hobby - who knows.  But I could e-mail you the
>>> time
>>> and place if your interested or maybe even send you a .RA file if you
>>> can't
>>> get on.  If you do get on you can record it via Real Audio.
>>>
>>> See,  human life is of  no of importance.  I don't care how big a person
>>> may think
>>> he is - they are nothing.  They use you up and spit you out.  Have you by
>>> any
>>> chance heard that those who are wounded are flown to Germany and must
>>> buy a plane ticket back to the U.S.??  That was on TV.  The government
>>> has
>>> no shame.  Look at how the Vietnam GIs came back after 1 tour of duty -
>>> our
>>> guys are doing 3 tours now.  Yea, and when they come back they will get a
>>> job as
>>> a cop.  Now, there are several people who could do something - The
>>> President,
>>> the senator who works with the armed services committee,  I believe
>>> Levin.  I
>>> get the feeling that nobody is home.  No, not one person in the Senate or
>>>
>>> Congress did a damn thing.  I love the country America but do not like
>>> the leaders.
>>> All in all they got some damn good people, but only the corrupt get to
>>> the top.
>>> If your not corrupt those who contribute to your campaign have no use for
>>> you.
>>> OK, I'M done.  Let me know if your interested in listening to *Lauren*Moret next
>>> time she stops by to say hi.
>>>
>>> Later,
>>>
>>>   - JIM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Mon, 8/24/09, Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
>>> >* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security
>>> payments
>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> >
>>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 12:31 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> I looked up depleted uranium and got this site about babies born deformed
>>> because of it. Don't scroll down
>>> if you don't want to see some very disturbing pictures. I don't even know
>>> if they're real but I wasn't expecting it
>>>
>>>
>>> http://educate-yourself.org/cn/depleteduraniumandafghanbabies29apr06.shtml
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>
>>>> You said >>  I hope they have enough parking lot security jobs for all
>>>> those men with bull
>>>>                       dog  type aptitudes that will be jobless after
>>>> they end the war on drugs :P
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I really do not think the 'war on drugs' will end anytime soon, I
>>>> believe that it is not meant
>>>> to win.  Look at Iraq - we bombed they into the caveman days; little
>>>> running water, no
>>>> electricity, few medial goods.  Is the war over, no.  How much longer
>>>> are we to be there
>>>> bombing them??  Of all the wars this will be both the most profitable
>>>> and most costly -
>>>> remember when these guys get back they will still be living the the war
>>>> out in their
>>>> dreams.  There's going to be a lot of medical problems due to the
>>>> depleted Uranium.
>>>> They just started giving the Vietnam soldiers compensation for the agent
>>>> orange deal
>>>> 40 or 50 years later.  The VA hospital is the lowest in quality care -
>>>> even had a news
>>>> story on how bad things were - toilets not working, unsanitary
>>>> conditions, a long list.
>>>> This war will make more millionaires and billionaires than any other.
>>>>
>>>> See, they blow up a bridge, then Halliburton will fix the bridge for
>>>> $500,000.  Halibut
>>>> being a caring company hires local unemployed people to fix the bridge.
>>>> Only they
>>>> do not pay union wages.  Well they build a bridge for $100,000 and
>>>> Halaburtin makes
>>>> $400,000 for making a couple of phone calls.
>>>>
>>>> Also, when there are billions of Poppies worth billions of dollars.  A
>>>> smart general or
>>>> even a private will think of ways of getting it to the U.S. to sell.
>>>> It's Vietnam Part II.
>>>> They have done this in Vietnam and with coke in Central America.  I hate
>>>> to say it
>>>> but I believe many soldiers will show signs of some kind of poisoning
>>>> and many will
>>>> be on disability.  I think close to half of the Iraqi War I soldiers are
>>>> now on disability
>>>> and the government is pulling the ole it's all in your head stuff again.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry James didn't mean to get off track there.  Oh well I wrote might
>>>> as well send it in.
>>>>
>>>> Best to ya,
>>>>
>>>>   - JIM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Sun, 8/23/09, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=psychonaut101 at gmail.com>
>>>> >* wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=psychonaut101 at gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security
>>>> payments
>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com<http://mc/compose?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> >
>>>> Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 2:38 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I hope they have enough parking lot security jobs for all those men with
>>>> bull dog type aptitudes that will be jobless after they end the war on drugs
>>>> :P
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com<http://us.mc513.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jlspence12 at gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Why do every damm pres. In the history of the
>>>>> US Lie..
>>>>>
>>>>> Why???
>>>>>
>>>>> I just dont get it??!
>>>>>
>>>>> Obama doesn't have a chance keep in office.
>>>>> If he fucks with SS anything,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be extremely piss the fuck off!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, what they need to do is end the war on
>>>>> Weed!!
>>>>> and save oh about 200 billion dollars, and bring
>>>>> ALL our toops from country that don't want us
>>>>> There home!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> 90% of the problem in this country would be
>>>>> Gone!!
>>>>> J
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 23, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc513.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting article on Soc Security for those retired or on SS of some
>>>>> kind.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090823/ap_on_go_ot/us_social_security_smaller_checks
>>>>>
>>>>> Best to Everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>   - JIM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 15:55:51 2009
From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
In-Reply-To: <4c90d90909052034w44899861va14445450af0d190@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <317184.88252.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Luke,

Yea, I understand it's over info.? You Goggle something and 100,000
hits come up.? I was into a mafia craze for a while read all the mafia 
books.? Yep, this is the information age.

Talk to ya later,

? - JIM

--- On Sat, 9/5/09, Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 11:34 PM

HI Jim,
???????? Sorry for the late reply. I'm not quite well too keep up with all the posts. There's so much info
there I have to keep from fueling my own paranoid rage but keep an eye out to what goes on in the world

while I try to sort my own life out. I'd love to be aware of everything but, alas that is too much to expect.
I'm just reading general kind of things about what's going on at the moment. Just finished a book called,

McMafia, about global crime that was very interesting and started on called The post american world, though
I'm interested in all sorts of other more pleasurable things like music and creativity and fullfillment

Luke 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:03 AM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:



By the way Jeffery Smith is on tonight at 10:00 and again at 1:00 am.

at rense.com


Hi Luke,

One of my favorites is "The CIA and the cult of Intelligence" by an ex-
agent.? I forget his name.? I remember reading it in college is Pol Sci.

And we had a communist teacher.? He told the class he was a communist
and he had some pretty good reasons.? Remember this was during Nixon
and the missing 18 minutes of tape.? I am not a communist but I 
learned a lot from the man.? I haven't read a book in a while for I have

trouble reading sometimes as it seem rough on the eyes and my
concentration is not what it used to be.? I have to re-read it because
I forget who did what and things like that.? But I will keep and eye out.

There is a guy called Jim
 Marrs, he is a 'real'? journalist the kind that
ask tough questions and knows the answer and will say that's a lie.
He writes books that are so complex I give up on them.? He acts like

a country bumpkin but writes a book that is over my head - thick books
too.? Yea, reminds me of Lt. Columbo. One is "Ruled by Conspiracy" 
where he will tell you who married who and such.? He also has a web 

page.? I would say get the books at the library - why pay $25 or more.? 
Also, there is one called "The Dumbing Down of America - very good. 
And one that will scare the hell out of ya called "Seeds of Deception"

by Jeffery Smith which tells how Monsanto in taking over the world food
supply.? What I mean is all food will come from Monsanto and most 
will be GM.? It tells of the dangers - just read the first chapter.? Want a 

quick movie try "The World according to Monsanto"
 you can DL it for 
free from thepriatebay.org .? Then there is a new one just out about 
UKULTRA and how they kept women drugged for like 90 days and erased 

their memory.? The Doc would give them ECT 2 or 3 times a day for 30
days and things like that.

Tell me exactly what your interested in.

UKUltra where they torture people and do mind control experiments

some of the guys would take turns spiking their friends drinks with LSD.
That's the one where the guy jumps out of the window.

The food supply and the dangers of GM food.

Webster Griffin Tarply? wrote two on Obama in the last year.


Or how the CIA and Navy tested out biological agents on US
citizens in the? New York subway and again with a navy ship
off the cost of San Francisco.

If you Goggle a subject you may see who wrote a book about

whatever. 

If you Google Gulf of Tokin (Token?) either
 one will work.? It has
been declassified and it shows that the Vietnam War was a hoax.
Damn, the Vietnam was was a hoax based on a lie - just like the
Iraq war.

If you tell me what your interested in I will drop you a line when


I see a subject you may be interested in.? Also, Marrs and a
few others appears as guests on rense .com.??? There is a place 
where you can log in for free but sometimes they are too crowded.
What time zone are you in??


You are searching for the truth, I can understand that.? But it can
be hard to take.? Like those pics with babies with their brains out
of their heads, remember the one with the big red eyes and the
one with four stumps for limbs.? The truth can be ugly.? Du is that

bad and the troops will be sick.? I think close to half of those who
went to fight in Iraq in 1990 or 91 are now on disability.? It also 
makes the wife and sometimes kids sick.? The same will happen 
to those over there now -? some on their 3rd tour.


If your sure you want to go there tell me what interests you and I 
will keep an eye out.

Later,

? -
 JIM



--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security payments

To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 4:34 PM

Thanks Jim,

??????????????? I'm just trying to be more aware of what's going on in the world.? The more of the coruption that get's exposed the better.
Any books worth reading? i perfer reading a book than staring at the screen for ages.



Luke

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:





Hi Luke,

I didn't know you were so interested but your quite welcome.? I will drop
you and e-mail next time she will be talking on Rense . com.? The rand
corp is one of the bad ones, when I sad bad it is bad.



As far as the soldiers paying their own way home from Germany
here is an example Goggle us soldiers pay own way home from German



1st? to pop up? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081017183521AAf1nO9

Do US Army soldiers have to pay for flights home for R & R when stationed in Korea?


                  My
son is in Korea for one year, and is allowed his 2 weeks R&R in the
end of December. He wants to come back home to the states. Does he have
to pay his own way to get home or does the army get him home?
                
         10 months ago 
        
        
                
        
Since Korea is not a deployment, transportation is not provided by DOD. He will have to pay, or he can try and fly space A.
      
              _____________________________
WASHINGTON -- In an effort to bolster military morale, the Pentagon
soon will begin paying travel expenses for troops to get all the way
home on leave from Iraq and Afghanistan. 

The cost of that extra leg for tens of thousands of soldiers: $55 million. 

Until
now, the largest R&R program since the Vietnam War has flown
soldiers only to three cities in the United States and two in Germany,
leaving them to pay airfare for connecting flights if they want to go
farther. 

Some airlines offered discount fares to help, and a
congressman started a program
in which Americans donated millions of
their frequent flyer miles for service members
to use to get home. 

But
officials said Tuesday they were working up a plan for the Defense
Department to begin reimbursing troops for the connecting flights with
the $55 million authorized recently by Congress for the coming year.
(snip/...)

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x249951



--------------------------------------------

Wow, maybe the government was embarrassed and a congressman started 
a program she should no of had to.? Could the day come when we just have
our guys parachute in and kill all they can let let then die or starvation or sickness.


Why send a plane and spend $1000 for fuel - let them live off the land or die??

I will let ya know next time Laurn will be on Rense .

Oh you know something funny.? When we did the shock and awe thing and 


bombed the shit out of them.? Two weeks later the radiation dectors went
crazy.? The DU traveled from Iraq it the UK.? Then some company, I forget
which one bought the company that had the radiation alarms and suppressed


the information.? Not sure if that was the RAND or not.? But yea Rand is
 the
close with the powers that be like Kissinger, Brzezinski and all the Nixon - Bush
gang.? If I remember correctly it was about 1972 or so that Nixon went to China
with a good deal - you can take our manufacturing jobs.? The company will pay


a dollar or two? (no benefits) and the citizens will have money and you will get 
half back? through taxes.? Your citizens have jobs, you tax them, the
American corporations will save billions.? It is a win-win for everyone except


the UAW and those guys who are over paid, no good and lazy and really just
useless eaters .

Oh, never Goggle mkultra? the sleeping room.?? Yes, Rand is... well it is kind of hard


to tell if it is a company or a U.S. operation as well as a company.? The CIA
and companies go hand in hand.? Rand is about as dirty as it gets.? I will let you know
when
 Lauren is on rense.

Best to ya,

? - Luke



--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com> wrote:



From: Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>


Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>

Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 8:31 AM


Hi Jim,
??????? I'll look up Leuren Moret, I haven't heard of her but I guess you wouldn't? would you.? Not suprising she lost her
government job. Seems to be some of her talks on youtube. when does she speak on that site?




When I looked up Depleted uranium it said there was an independant non-profit company that did tests
and found it to be quite safe.? It was called RAND so I looked them up and staff mentioned were Donald Rumsfeld and Henry



Kinssinger. Hmm didn't reconise the other names but their probably scum too.

I never heard that one about soldier having to buy plane tickets. I don't think any warring nation through history ever gave a 



damn about their soldiers, just cannon fodder that's all.

Luke
???????? 

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:







Hi Luke,

I have seen a few of these.?? Kinda funny, you think something as sick as this
would make 60 minutes etc. but haven't read or heard about it except for the
et.? They are using the stuff by the ton, and hundreds of tons.? There is a very



smart lady who worked with it in a way but then said NO, you guys are nuts
I can not push or condone this stuff being used.? Well there goes that job - a
scientist with the government, Lauren Moret.? I did talk to her via e-mail once.? 



I believe she may of been a teacher in California.? She sometimes? has a 
column in the SF Gate a San Francisco paper.? She will tell you how they polluted 
Hawaii (she lives there), that they knew this stuff is as bad as it is long ago , also 



against the Geneva Convention - for the
 pollution last for 3 1/2? Billion 
( not a type o - Billion ) years.? There is no way to clean up the nano particles.? When
they say we did not know it caused cancer, yes they did. Lauren told then, they
pretended not to hear.? But if I know it causes cancer you think all the generals



and Sergeants would know.? Not to mention a few doc and scientists.? Guess this
is the new Agent Orange.? They could call it DP - IR for infinite release.

If your really interested you can check out her web site or if you would like to



hear her talk for an hour I can tell you when and where.? She is a guest on
Rense.com and I try never to miss her.? For some reason I am interested in
things like this - strange hobby - who knows.? But I could e-mail you the time



and place if your interested or maybe even send you a .RA file if you can't
get on.? If you do get on you can record it via
 Real Audio.

See,? human life is of? no of importance.? I don't care how big a person may think
he is - they are nothing.? They use you up and spit you out.? Have you by any 
chance heard that those who are wounded are flown to Germany and must



buy a plane ticket back to the U.S.??? That was on TV.? The government has
no shame.? Look at how the Vietnam GIs came back after 1 tour of duty - our
guys are doing 3 tours now.? Yea, and when they come back they will get a job as



a cop.? Now, there are several people who could do something - The President,
the senator who works with the armed services committee,? I believe Levin.? I
get the feeling that nobody is home.? No, not one person in the Senate or 



Congress did a damn thing.? I love the country America but do not like the leaders.
All in all they got some damn good people, but only the corrupt get
 to the top. 
If your not corrupt those who contribute to your campaign have no use for you. 
OK, I'M done.? Let me know if your interested in listening to Lauren Moret next 
time she stops by to say hi.




Later,

? - JIM



--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com> wrote:




From: Luke C <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security payments



To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 12:31 PM



I looked up depleted uranium and got this site about babies born deformed because of it. Don't scroll down 

if you don't want to see some very disturbing pictures. I don't even know if they're real but I wasn't expecting it


http://educate-yourself.org/cn/depleteduraniumandafghanbabies29apr06.shtml





On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:





?
Hi James,
?
You said >>? I hope they have enough parking lot security jobs for all those men with bull
????????????????????? dog??type?aptitudes that will be jobless after they end the war on drugs :P
?
?
I really do not think the 'war on drugs' will end anytime soon, I believe that it is not meant
to win.? Look at Iraq - we bombed they into the caveman days; little running water, no
electricity, few medial goods.? Is the war over, no.? How much longer are we to be there
bombing them??? Of all the wars this will be both the most profitable and most costly - 
remember when these guys get back they will still be living the the war out in their 
dreams.? There's going to be a lot of medical problems due to the depleted Uranium.
They just started giving the Vietnam soldiers compensation for the agent orange deal
40 or 50 years later.? The VA hospital is the lowest in quality care - even had a news
story on how bad things were - toilets not working, unsanitary conditions, a long list.
This war will make more millionaires and billionaires than any other.? 
?
See, they blow up?a bridge, then Halliburton will fix the bridge for $500,000.? Halibut
being?a caring company hires local unemployed people to fix the bridge.? Only they
do not pay union wages.? Well they build a bridge for $100,000 and Halaburtin makes
$400,000 for making a couple of phone calls.
?
Also, when there are billions of Poppies worth billions of dollars.? A smart general or
even a private will think of ways of getting it to the U.S. to sell.? It's Vietnam Part II.
They have done this in Vietnam and with coke in Central America.? I hate to say it
but I believe many soldiers will show signs of some kind of poisoning and many will
be on disability.? I think close to half of the Iraqi War I soldiers are now on disability 
and the government is pulling the ole it's all in your head stuff again.
?
Sorry James didn't mean to get off track there.? Oh well I wrote might as well send it in.
?
Best to ya,
?
? - JIM
?
?

--- On Sun, 8/23/09, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com> wrote:





From: James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>




Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] O.T. Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>



Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 2:38 PM



I hope they have enough parking lot security jobs for all those men with bull dog type aptitudes that will be jobless after they end the war on drugs :P


On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:







Why do every damm pres. In the history of the
US Lie..


Why???


I just dont get it??!


Obama doesn't have a chance keep in office.
If he fucks with SS anything,


I'll be extremely piss the fuck off!!




No, what they need to do is end the war on?
Weed!!
and save oh about 200 billion dollars, and bring
ALL our toops from country that don't want us?
There home!!!


90% of the problem in this country would be?
Gone!!?
J




On Aug 23, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:









Hi All,

Interesting article on Soc Security for those retired or on SS of some kind.


news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090823/ap_on_go_ot/us_social_security_smaller_checks





Best to Everyone,

? - JIM






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From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 16:05:06 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:05:06 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Beverly, hello list..

I have experience taking TA  for opiate addiction, and I can say with
certainty that it works remarkably. Also, two of my closest friends
have taken both the TA and the HCL for the same reasons and each of
them preferred the TA over the ibogaine hcl. It seemed to us that the
spectrum of other plant alkaloids worked syngersitically to 'get in
there' where the HCL may have 'left off' this not to say that isolated
ibogaine doesn't work thus, only a subjective preference of
materials...I think it is interesting to note that perhaps they could
be used concomitantly or in separate sessions, each using it's unique
and powerful methods to cleanse and heal in different ways. This would
be a good notion to explore in future studies. I myself have not been
too well physically lately and have some nasty oral surgery to look
forward to, it sucks because I have made arrangements to take TA iboga
in the near future to cement and 'recapture' some of the healing that
I experienced months ago in my initial session...I am looking to put
'the wind back in my sails' so to speak, but I may have to put off the
surgery or the session, I'm not sure which just yet..thanks to all for
being here, this list is a remarkable resource, blessings...K
On 9/5/09, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:
> That does help.
> :)
> Thank you all.
> Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?
> Suboxone and TA? H and TA?
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
> <helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been clean
>> of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.  I'd
>> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract because I
>> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the "spirit"
>> of
>> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one single
>> active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more
>> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with
>> iboga),
>> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get more
>> benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by extracting
>> the
>> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it definitely
>> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the cacti
>> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full range of
>> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those with other
>> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or more
>> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have never
>> been
>> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic
>> experience.  Hope this helps!
>>
>>
>

From izmudd at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 17:04:30 2009
From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 14:04:30 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68a68f8a0909061404x1ba7df8dl6ffed50098d5c096@mail.gmail.com>

Calque,

Valuable information, thank you for taking the time.
Perhaps a series of boosters might be able to give you what you are looking
for, and then no need to postpone surgery?
Wishing you well.

B

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:05 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Beverly, hello list..
>
> I have experience taking TA  for opiate addiction, and I can say with
> certainty that it works remarkably. Also, two of my closest friends
> have taken both the TA and the HCL for the same reasons and each of
> them preferred the TA over the ibogaine hcl. It seemed to us that the
> spectrum of other plant alkaloids worked syngersitically to 'get in
> there' where the HCL may have 'left off' this not to say that isolated
> ibogaine doesn't work thus, only a subjective preference of
> materials...I think it is interesting to note that perhaps they could
> be used concomitantly or in separate sessions, each using it's unique
> and powerful methods to cleanse and heal in different ways. This would
> be a good notion to explore in future studies. I myself have not been
> too well physically lately and have some nasty oral surgery to look
> forward to, it sucks because I have made arrangements to take TA iboga
> in the near future to cement and 'recapture' some of the healing that
> I experienced months ago in my initial session...I am looking to put
> 'the wind back in my sails' so to speak, but I may have to put off the
> surgery or the session, I'm not sure which just yet..thanks to all for
> being here, this list is a remarkable resource, blessings...K
> On 9/5/09, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That does help.
> > :)
> > Thank you all.
> > Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?
> > Suboxone and TA? H and TA?
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
> > <helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> >> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been
> clean
> >> of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.  I'd
> >> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract because I
> >> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the
> "spirit"
> >> of
> >> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one
> single
> >> active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more
> >> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with
> >> iboga),
> >> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get more
> >> benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by extracting
> >> the
> >> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it definitely
> >> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the cacti
> >> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full range
> of
> >> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those with
> other
> >> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or more
> >> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have never
> >> been
> >> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic
> >> experience.  Hope this helps!
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>



-- 
"Love is the cure,
for your pain will keep giving birth to more pain
until your eyes constantly exhale love
as effortlessly as your body yields it's
scent."
Rumi
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From ibogamail at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 17:18:56 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 15:18:56 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
 what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA42740.8040908@gmail.com>

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From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 16:21:12 2009
From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:21:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dutch Police Slash Hemp Instead of Pot
Message-ID: <437208.78349.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Police raid a hemp field - not marijuana but hemp and government sanctioned 
hemp at that.

? - JIM

news.aol.com/article/cops-mistake-hemp-grown-for-fiber-for/655511





      
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From vector620022002 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 01:34:39 2009
From: vector620022002 at yahoo.com (Vector Vector)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:34:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal: Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
Message-ID: <623347.15262.qm@web31606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10595289

Drug campaigner pushes trance cure

4:00AM Saturday Sep 05, 2009
By Andrew Laxon
A pro-cannabis group is pushing for the introduction of a hallucinogenic-type drug as a treatment for P addiction.

American drug law reform campaigner Dana Beal will today address a public forum at the University of Otago on the use of ibogaine, a drug which sends people into a dream-like trance for several hours.

Supporters say it reduces craving and leads drug users to confront their drug-taking behaviour after one or two doses, with the help of psychotherapy. Ibogaine has previously been used with heroin addicts and is now being promoted as a weapon against pure methamphetamine.

However the drug is banned in some countries, including the United States and Europe, because of its hallucinogenic properties.

Dr Fraser Todd, a senior lecturer at the National Addiction Centre at Christchurch Medical School, said the main problem with ibogaine was a lack of clinical trials to prove its safety and effectiveness.

It worked in a similar way to ketamine, a drug which had been tested overseas and could be trialled soon in New Zealand.

"If that drug [ibogaine] doesn't have long-lasting side effects from a one-off use and does fix addiction, that's potentially a major addition to our armoury."

But drug education campaigner Mike Sabin said the drug could be especially dangerous for the many methamphetamine users who took other medication for mental illnesses.

"There's a lot of things to be ticked off before you could say this could be safely administered."

Mr Beal, 62, a longtime marijuana legalisation supporter, has been brought to New Zealand by the National Organisation for the Reform of Marijuana Laws New Zealand.

President Phil Saxby said ibogaine had some side effects on users but so did medicinal marijuana and aspirin.

"If you banned everything because it had side effects you'd never do anything."

Auckland psychotherapist Dr Tony Coates, who would like to use the drug as an addiction treatment, said he had tried it himself and found it was "everything it was cracked up to be" in personal accounts on the internet.

He said most ibogaine users remained fully awake but went into a dreamlike trance for five or six hours.

Addicts confronted vivid memories of the experiences which led to their drug taking and could discuss these afterwards with a counsellor. Ibogaine also removed craving for other drugs.

Dr Coates said ibogaine appeared to have no legal status in New Zealand but Medsafe had told him it would have to be registered as a medicine before he could give it to patients. There had been no large-scale clinical trials of the drug and he had found it difficult to interest anyone in starting one.


      

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 11:12:02 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:12:02 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal: Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
In-Reply-To: <623347.15262.qm@web31606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <623347.15262.qm@web31606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7FA6B3E0-FADC-4157-ABF5-2527D394A75A@gmail.com>

Thanks Dana.

You give as pussy drug users that don't want to come out in the open  
and talk about this a voice..

We're mainly afraid the we will be shamed at by the idiots in the  
"medical feild"
And the "be a target for the police"
None of which I or many want to be..

Follow what's in your heart Dana!!

However, not that I'm worried about it getting to much media covage.

I be lying if I said I wasn't worried about poeple in the un ground..

The bad thing is it puts the under ground people in the spot light.
And in the US, that make poeple like me(talking about my past drug  
use, nothing I do now!!!!!) a "target" for the idiots that don't "get  
it" namely the idiot police!!

But you have to follow thos path, keep making noise!!!

To many people understandibly do not want to be on the DEAs "radar"


But my hat goes out to the poeple like Dana that will not take this  
stupid ass drug war, stupid ass shit, sitting down..

The "medical field" could use a blow job!!!
And wake the fuck up!!!!

I thank you are on target!!

The medical feild needs to get Its head out of it's ass!!!

Stay on target!!

The medical feild needs it more then the police!!!!


I know, I been through those idiots!!!

It's all mindless BS!!

And I feel for anybody who is forced to go through that dumb ass BS!!

Mindless!!!


J






On Sep 8, 2009, at 12:34 AM, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com>  
wrote:

>
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10595289
>
> Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
>
> 4:00AM Saturday Sep 05, 2009
> By Andrew Laxon
> A pro-cannabis group is pushing for the introduction of a  
> hallucinogenic-type drug as a treatment for P addiction.
>
> American drug law reform campaigner Dana Beal will today address a  
> public forum at the University of Otago on the use of ibogaine, a  
> drug which sends people into a dream-like trance for several hours.
>
> Supporters say it reduces craving and leads drug users to confront  
> their drug-taking behaviour after one or two doses, with the help of  
> psychotherapy. Ibogaine has previously been used with heroin addicts  
> and is now being promoted as a weapon against pure methamphetamine.
>
> However the drug is banned in some countries, including the United  
> States and Europe, because of its hallucinogenic properties.
>
> Dr Fraser Todd, a senior lecturer at the National Addiction Centre  
> at Christchurch Medical School, said the main problem with ibogaine  
> was a lack of clinical trials to prove its safety and effectiveness.
>
> It worked in a similar way to ketamine, a drug which had been tested  
> overseas and could be trialled soon in New Zealand.
>
> "If that drug [ibogaine] doesn't have long-lasting side effects from  
> a one-off use and does fix addiction, that's potentially a major  
> addition to our armoury."
>
> But drug education campaigner Mike Sabin said the drug could be  
> especially dangerous for the many methamphetamine users who took  
> other medication for mental illnesses.
>
> "There's a lot of things to be ticked off before you could say this  
> could be safely administered."
>
> Mr Beal, 62, a longtime marijuana legalisation supporter, has been  
> brought to New Zealand by the National Organisation for the Reform  
> of Marijuana Laws New Zealand.
>
> President Phil Saxby said ibogaine had some side effects on users  
> but so did medicinal marijuana and aspirin.
>
> "If you banned everything because it had side effects you'd never do  
> anything."
>
> Auckland psychotherapist Dr Tony Coates, who would like to use the  
> drug as an addiction treatment, said he had tried it himself and  
> found it was "everything it was cracked up to be" in personal  
> accounts on the internet.
>
> He said most ibogaine users remained fully awake but went into a  
> dreamlike trance for five or six hours.
>
> Addicts confronted vivid memories of the experiences which led to  
> their drug taking and could discuss these afterwards with a  
> counsellor. Ibogaine also removed craving for other drugs.
>
> Dr Coates said ibogaine appeared to have no legal status in New  
> Zealand but Medsafe had told him it would have to be registered as a  
> medicine before he could give it to patients. There had been no  
> large-scale clinical trials of the drug and he had found it  
> difficult to interest anyone in starting one.
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

From dcollier9 at q.com  Tue Sep  8 12:11:53 2009
From: dcollier9 at q.com (DC from AZ)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:11:53 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint is
	proof
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>

 
 wow
 
see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US status thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in US later would also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
 
in search of "all" truth
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From ibogamail at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 12:28:57 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:28:57 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is	proof
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA68649.7070104@gmail.com>

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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Tue Sep  8 12:49:33 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:49:33 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
 is	proof
In-Reply-To: <4AA68649.7070104@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA68649.7070104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA68B1D.8010709@mtciep.com>

Nice point there Matt.

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Matt S wrote:
> Does the law say you have to be born on US soil or just born a US 
> citizen?  If his mother was a citizen then he would be also.  I guess 
> I am wondering then if someone born say of military parents on active 
> duty or the child of ambassadors in a foreign country would not be 
> eligible to become president.  If so it seems a bit arbitrary.  For 
> example in that case I and my older brother would be eligible to run 
> while my little brother (who is now deceased) would not have been 
> because he was born in Turkey, even though we all have the same 
> parents and we are (or were) all US citizens.
>
> My only other comment is that seeing something like this online is not 
> exactly proof of anything.  Generating images in this day and age is 
> pretty easy.  Want to see my multiple PHD's?
>
> And maybe it's nothing but I also wonder if a birth certificate issued 
> in Kenya would be in English the way this one is.
>
> I'm not taking a position either way on the issue (maybe he was born 
> in Kenya I certainly don't know) I'm just pointing out that there are 
> still questions and this isn't actually proof as the subject line suggests
>
> Matt.
>
> DC from AZ wrote:
>>  
>>  wow
>>  
>> see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US 
>> status thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in 
>> US later would also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>>  
>> in search of "all" truth
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>   

From sara119 at xs4all.nl  Tue Sep  8 12:19:02 2009
From: sara119 at xs4all.nl (Sara Glatt)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:19:02 +0200
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
 is proof
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1408d3ccfce7f25b23722d1e8e8ee751.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

President Obama faces 30 death threats a day, a 400 percent increase from
former
President Bush, according to Ronald Kessler, a veteran investigative
journalist and
conservative who recently authored a book about the Secret Service.




From izmudd at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 13:56:22 2009
From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:56:22 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <1408d3ccfce7f25b23722d1e8e8ee751.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
	<1408d3ccfce7f25b23722d1e8e8ee751.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <68a68f8a0909081056y3fa49b13w8711dd014b747b51@mail.gmail.com>

That's because the people who don't like Obama in large part don't like him
because of his skin color. People who judge based on skin color are not the
brightest folks to begin with, and are more likely to use bullying and fear
tactics (death threats) to express discomfort than those who do not uphold
racist ideals.

Just my 1.5 cents.


On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Sara Glatt <sara119 at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> President Obama faces 30 death threats a day, a 400 percent increase from
> former
> President Bush, according to Ronald Kessler, a veteran investigative
> journalist and
> conservative who recently authored a book about the Secret Service.
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>



-- 
"Love is the cure,
for your pain will keep giving birth to more pain
until your eyes constantly exhale love
as effortlessly as your body yields it's
scent."
Rumi
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 15:54:45 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:54:45 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a0909081056y3fa49b13w8711dd014b747b51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
	<1408d3ccfce7f25b23722d1e8e8ee751.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<68a68f8a0909081056y3fa49b13w8711dd014b747b51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C8B1DDE-24EA-4F78-BD71-58A6153E357A@gmail.com>

I don't hate him.

But I'm not voting for him again..

I thought just maybe we could have "logic"
In this country

I guess I was wrong...

J

On Sep 8, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's because the people who don't like Obama in large part don't  
> like him because of his skin color. People who judge based on skin  
> color are not the brightest folks to begin with, and are more likely  
> to use bullying and fear tactics (death threats) to express  
> discomfort than those who do not uphold racist ideals.
>
> Just my 1.5 cents.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Sara Glatt <sara119 at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> President Obama faces 30 death threats a day, a 400 percent increase  
> from
> former
> President Bush, according to Ronald Kessler, a veteran investigative
> journalist and
> conservative who recently authored a book about the Secret Service.
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>
>
>
> -- 
> "Love is the cure,
> for your pain will keep giving birth to more pain
> until your eyes constantly exhale love
> as effortlessly as your body yields it's
> scent."
> Rumi
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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From ajb0276 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 16:04:50 2009
From: ajb0276 at yahoo.com (Tony Basile)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:04:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <4AA68B1D.8010709@mtciep.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
	<4AA68649.7070104@gmail.com> <4AA68B1D.8010709@mtciep.com>
Message-ID: <661205.65483.qm@web59913.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>



Excellent points matt:)-Sadly once again,our vague and outdated laws are causing confusion,(Was he born here,or not)-Once again i m sure the laws will change in the gov. s favor-ie.patriot act:(without any general consent or knowledge


________________________________
From: Edward A. Weissbard <edwardw at mtciep.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 12:49:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint is proof

Nice point there Matt.

___________________
Edward edwardw at mtciep.com





Matt S wrote:
> Does the law say you have to be born on US soil or just born a US citizen?? If his mother was a citizen then he would be also.? I guess I am wondering then if someone born say of military parents on active duty or the child of ambassadors in a foreign country would not be eligible to become president.? If so it seems a bit arbitrary.? For example in that case I and my older brother would be eligible to run while my little brother (who is now deceased) would not have been because he was born in Turkey, even though we all have the same parents and we are (or were) all US citizens.
> 
> My only other comment is that seeing something like this online is not exactly proof of anything.? Generating images in this day and age is pretty easy.? Want to see my multiple PHD's?
> 
> And maybe it's nothing but I also wonder if a birth certificate issued in Kenya would be in English the way this one is.
> 
> I'm not taking a position either way on the issue (maybe he was born in Kenya I certainly don't know) I'm just pointing out that there are still questions and this isn't actually proof as the subject line suggests
> 
> Matt.
> 
> DC from AZ wrote:
>>? wow
>>? see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US status thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in US later would also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>>? in search of "all" truth
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
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From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 19:26:12 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:26:12 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal: Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
In-Reply-To: <623347.15262.qm@web31606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <623347.15262.qm@web31606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <725c35de0909081626r4770ad7bxdbb8ad96187f9aeb@mail.gmail.com>

I love how 'they' always point to lack of "clinical trials" as the
first line of defense against common-sense...this is a perfect
solution for those who'll stop at nothing to deny us our sovereignty:
that there are no or few clinical trials in the United States is
because of the heavily enforced paradox of Western science: A Schedule
One drug cannot even be tested in America without months or years of
hat-in-hand begging and prostrating before a dozen different Czars and
Committees. This is deliberate and evil genius, like the Marijuana Tax
Stamp--you can't get a stamp w/out having weed in hand, but to possess
weed is against the law. It's these little inconveniences that make me
glad I'm a Patriot...disgusting...
On 9/8/09, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10595289
>
> Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
>
> 4:00AM Saturday Sep 05, 2009
> By Andrew Laxon
> A pro-cannabis group is pushing for the introduction of a
> hallucinogenic-type drug as a treatment for P addiction.
>
> American drug law reform campaigner Dana Beal will today address a public
> forum at the University of Otago on the use of ibogaine, a drug which sends
> people into a dream-like trance for several hours.
>
> Supporters say it reduces craving and leads drug users to confront their
> drug-taking behaviour after one or two doses, with the help of
> psychotherapy. Ibogaine has previously been used with heroin addicts and is
> now being promoted as a weapon against pure methamphetamine.
>
> However the drug is banned in some countries, including the United States
> and Europe, because of its hallucinogenic properties.
>
> Dr Fraser Todd, a senior lecturer at the National Addiction Centre at
> Christchurch Medical School, said the main problem with ibogaine was a lack
> of clinical trials to prove its safety and effectiveness.
>
> It worked in a similar way to ketamine, a drug which had been tested
> overseas and could be trialled soon in New Zealand.
>
> "If that drug [ibogaine] doesn't have long-lasting side effects from a
> one-off use and does fix addiction, that's potentially a major addition to
> our armoury."
>
> But drug education campaigner Mike Sabin said the drug could be especially
> dangerous for the many methamphetamine users who took other medication for
> mental illnesses.
>
> "There's a lot of things to be ticked off before you could say this could be
> safely administered."
>
> Mr Beal, 62, a longtime marijuana legalisation supporter, has been brought
> to New Zealand by the National Organisation for the Reform of Marijuana Laws
> New Zealand.
>
> President Phil Saxby said ibogaine had some side effects on users but so did
> medicinal marijuana and aspirin.
>
> "If you banned everything because it had side effects you'd never do
> anything."
>
> Auckland psychotherapist Dr Tony Coates, who would like to use the drug as
> an addiction treatment, said he had tried it himself and found it was
> "everything it was cracked up to be" in personal accounts on the internet.
>
> He said most ibogaine users remained fully awake but went into a dreamlike
> trance for five or six hours.
>
> Addicts confronted vivid memories of the experiences which led to their drug
> taking and could discuss these afterwards with a counsellor. Ibogaine also
> removed craving for other drugs.
>
> Dr Coates said ibogaine appeared to have no legal status in New Zealand but
> Medsafe had told him it would have to be registered as a medicine before he
> could give it to patients. There had been no large-scale clinical trials of
> the drug and he had found it difficult to interest anyone in starting one.
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>

From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 19:28:20 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:28:20 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dutch Police Slash Hemp Instead of Pot
In-Reply-To: <437208.78349.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <437208.78349.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <725c35de0909081628x3a9f431bgf682610df8efc2a@mail.gmail.com>

I really want to comment, but...I find I just cannot....

On 9/7/09, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Police raid a hemp field - not marijuana but hemp and government sanctioned
> hemp at that.
>
> ? - JIM
>
> news.aol.com/article/cops-mistake-hemp-grown-for-fiber-for/655511
>
>
>
>
>
>

From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 19:40:10 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:40:10 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <4AA42740.8040908@gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA42740.8040908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725c35de0909081640h2b1afbe2s1b76f260b6aa98ce@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Beverly, I'm glad you're doing so well!

Matt~ thanks to you too man, I am glad to link that tek here. I think
it's an easy way to go from root-bark to 'doable' medicine in short
order...it's been brought to my attention that such an extract would
be "unstable" and I would agree-- in that it's potency is not
guaranteed indefinitely. However, it may be said here that this
process is not meant to be used until the individual being treated is
ready to use it...leaving the alkaloids safely in the bark until
called for.

On another note, I find myself in a predicament. I'm having to take
narcotic analgesics for the past few weeks, and am already having
problems taking them as prescribed. Also, the situation requiring
surgery cannot be postponed due to increasing pain and potential
complications, so no matter what, I have to do the TA afterward. I'm
concerned... I'll probably write a Q and A for the many knowledgeable
members of our community and hope to get some opinions on safety and
ideas of how best to go about this. Thanks again.



On 9/6/09, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Cal I would guess this has already occurred to you but maybe you should
> do the surgery first in case you have to take any narcotics for the pain.
> Then you can hit your booster afterwards and hopefully handle any craving
> that might get triggered by the medication.
>
> BTW I never said so before but thanks for putting your extraction tek out
> there.? The more the merrier I figure on that front.? Knowledge is power.
>
> Matt
>
> cal que wrote:
>>
>> Hi Beverly, hello list..
>>
>> I have experience taking TA  for opiate addiction, and I can say with
>> certainty that it works remarkably. Also, two of my closest friends
>> have taken both the TA and the HCL for the same reasons and each of
>> them preferred the TA over the ibogaine hcl. It seemed to us that the
>> spectrum of other plant alkaloids worked syngersitically to 'get in
>> there' where the HCL may have 'left off' this not to say that isolated
>> ibogaine doesn't work thus, only a subjective preference of
>> materials...I think it is interesting to note that perhaps they could
>> be used concomitantly or in separate sessions, each using it's unique
>> and powerful methods to cleanse and heal in different ways. This would
>> be a good notion to explore in future studies. I myself have not been
>> too well physically lately and have some nasty oral surgery to look
>> forward to, it sucks because I have made arrangements to take TA iboga
>> in the near future to cement and 'recapture' some of the healing that
>> I experienced months ago in my initial session...I am looking to put
>> 'the wind back in my sails' so to speak, but I may have to put off the
>> surgery or the session, I'm not sure which just yet..thanks to all for
>> being here, this list is a remarkable resource, blessings...K
>> On 9/5/09, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That does help.
>>> :)
>>> Thank you all.
>>> Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?
>>> Suboxone and TA? H and TA?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
>>> <helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been
>>>> clean
>>>> of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.  I'd
>>>> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract because I
>>>> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the
>>>> "spirit"
>>>> of
>>>> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one
>>>> single
>>>> active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more
>>>> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with
>>>> iboga),
>>>> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get more
>>>> benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by extracting
>>>> the
>>>> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it definitely
>>>> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the cacti
>>>> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full range
>>>> of
>>>> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those with
>>>> other
>>>> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or more
>>>> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have never
>>>> been
>>>> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic
>>>> experience.  Hope this helps!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>
>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 20:31:21 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:31:21 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
Message-ID: <10C567C7-D7B4-4D1F-82B1-EC4E18924AD4@gmail.com>

I think that got to be amiercan born is all BS anyway..

But I'm a firm believer "consitution" also!! Which Ron Paul seems to  
be the only Rep. Seems to be "in reality" standing up for it.. Not  
just talking some BS..

So that's a tough issue with me??

I personally do not can if he was born in china...
I mean, i don't that should determin if you become pres. Or not.
If the "people" vote for it, why not..
J


On Sep 8, 2009, at 11:11 AM, "DC from AZ" <dcollier9 at q.com> wrote:

>
>  wow
>
> see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US  
> status thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in  
> US later would also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>
> in search of "all" truth
> <2of2.JPG>
> <1of2.JPG>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

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From izmudd at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 22:58:46 2009
From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:58:46 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal: Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
In-Reply-To: <725c35de0909081626r4770ad7bxdbb8ad96187f9aeb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <623347.15262.qm@web31606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<725c35de0909081626r4770ad7bxdbb8ad96187f9aeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68a68f8a0909081958w21763e1euf0271ee0efbcfb1c@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to learn more about the begging and prostrating. I think
compared to changing the system, it's a shortcut.


On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:26 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I love how 'they' always point to lack of "clinical trials" as the
> first line of defense against common-sense...this is a perfect
> solution for those who'll stop at nothing to deny us our sovereignty:
> that there are no or few clinical trials in the United States is
> because of the heavily enforced paradox of Western science: A Schedule
> One drug cannot even be tested in America without months or years of
> hat-in-hand begging and prostrating before a dozen different Czars and
> Committees. This is deliberate and evil genius, like the Marijuana Tax
> Stamp--you can't get a stamp w/out having weed in hand, but to possess
> weed is against the law. It's these little inconveniences that make me
> glad I'm a Patriot...disgusting...
> On 9/8/09, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10595289
> >
> > Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
> >
> > 4:00AM Saturday Sep 05, 2009
> > By Andrew Laxon
> > A pro-cannabis group is pushing for the introduction of a
> > hallucinogenic-type drug as a treatment for P addiction.
> >
> > American drug law reform campaigner Dana Beal will today address a public
> > forum at the University of Otago on the use of ibogaine, a drug which
> sends
> > people into a dream-like trance for several hours.
> >
> > Supporters say it reduces craving and leads drug users to confront their
> > drug-taking behaviour after one or two doses, with the help of
> > psychotherapy. Ibogaine has previously been used with heroin addicts and
> is
> > now being promoted as a weapon against pure methamphetamine.
> >
> > However the drug is banned in some countries, including the United States
> > and Europe, because of its hallucinogenic properties.
> >
> > Dr Fraser Todd, a senior lecturer at the National Addiction Centre at
> > Christchurch Medical School, said the main problem with ibogaine was a
> lack
> > of clinical trials to prove its safety and effectiveness.
> >
> > It worked in a similar way to ketamine, a drug which had been tested
> > overseas and could be trialled soon in New Zealand.
> >
> > "If that drug [ibogaine] doesn't have long-lasting side effects from a
> > one-off use and does fix addiction, that's potentially a major addition
> to
> > our armoury."
> >
> > But drug education campaigner Mike Sabin said the drug could be
> especially
> > dangerous for the many methamphetamine users who took other medication
> for
> > mental illnesses.
> >
> > "There's a lot of things to be ticked off before you could say this could
> be
> > safely administered."
> >
> > Mr Beal, 62, a longtime marijuana legalisation supporter, has been
> brought
> > to New Zealand by the National Organisation for the Reform of Marijuana
> Laws
> > New Zealand.
> >
> > President Phil Saxby said ibogaine had some side effects on users but so
> did
> > medicinal marijuana and aspirin.
> >
> > "If you banned everything because it had side effects you'd never do
> > anything."
> >
> > Auckland psychotherapist Dr Tony Coates, who would like to use the drug
> as
> > an addiction treatment, said he had tried it himself and found it was
> > "everything it was cracked up to be" in personal accounts on the
> internet.
> >
> > He said most ibogaine users remained fully awake but went into a
> dreamlike
> > trance for five or six hours.
> >
> > Addicts confronted vivid memories of the experiences which led to their
> drug
> > taking and could discuss these afterwards with a counsellor. Ibogaine
> also
> > removed craving for other drugs.
> >
> > Dr Coates said ibogaine appeared to have no legal status in New Zealand
> but
> > Medsafe had told him it would have to be registered as a medicine before
> he
> > could give it to patients. There had been no large-scale clinical trials
> of
> > the drug and he had found it difficult to interest anyone in starting
> one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> > (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> >   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
> >
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>



-- 
"Love is the cure,
for your pain will keep giving birth to more pain
until your eyes constantly exhale love
as effortlessly as your body yields it's
scent."
Rumi
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From wleetheriot at ca.rr.com  Tue Sep  8 22:03:11 2009
From: wleetheriot at ca.rr.com (Warren Theriot)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:03:11 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8838F16D-359F-433F-A373-21A2C3D517C7@ca.rr.com>

This blathering ignorant Birther nonsense continues to be a hot topic  
for masturbation doesn't it?

On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:11 AM, DC from AZ wrote:

>
>  wow
>
> see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US  
> status thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in  
> US later would also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>
> in search of "all" truth<2of2.JPG><1of2.JPG>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 01:07:13 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 00:07:13 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal: Drug campaigner pushes trance cure
In-Reply-To: <68a68f8a0909081958w21763e1euf0271ee0efbcfb1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <623347.15262.qm@web31606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<725c35de0909081626r4770ad7bxdbb8ad96187f9aeb@mail.gmail.com>
	<68a68f8a0909081958w21763e1euf0271ee0efbcfb1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F325E56D-6F4B-4CCD-82C7-5AFBBC35F9E8@gmail.com>

yea, i was watch more idiot DEA TV Those dude are a bunch think there  
better then everybody thug Idiots!! Again, I am not for people turning  
in to piles of shit.. But the War on drugs is more harmful then if you  
just yet those people be...

What the problem is, what the idiot cops don't understand, and can't  
get through they're thick Skulls, is that what they are doing, only  
lead to more crime!! and the shit the goes down with the illegal drug  
market!! what those idiots do not understand, is they are part of the  
problem!!
But, me personally, I am not for people ruining there life with drug  
use..

And when my friends ask me about steroids(how to use them) because  
they all know i "used" to them "in the past.." I tell them.. Stay the  
fuck away from them if
you can help it... In the long run, I tell them, they are really not  
all the great for you... But I also tell them, its a risk, but its not  
NEAR!! what the idiots drug war people "think"
its not packages of death like its made out to be... but its not just  
nothing either, if your not carful, you can can some not so fun side  
effects.. but nothing as deadly as they make out in the stupid ass  
media...
But its can happen if you are completely with out any sense with  
them.... both we talking long term use also.. not just doing it for a  
few years....
and how you EAT ON THEM MATTERS "INTENSELY!!!" IF YOU EAT A BUNCH OF  
SHIT, STEROID WITLL MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE!!!  IF YOU EAT CLEAN AS  
FUCK, THE STEROIDS WILL NOT EFFECT YOU NEARLY AS BAD...  long term,  
heart problems can occur... enlarged heart, is a problem for heavy,  
long term steroid use.. But we are talk over the top!! we are taking  
taking 750-1,000 mgs a month or more, and then stacking it with other  
steroids at pretty high doses, which i don't believe helps you at all...
I think mod. doses do you just as good.. without the side effects..  
there a point at witch your body just not going to get much more out  
of them....

But its all got a risk to it.. just like simply working out at the  
gym, its has risk to it!!!  dead lifting heavy weight got risk of  
blowing out your back.. everything got risk to it..

Everything in life has some level of risk to it!!   People are so  
fucking stupid!!!  The problem is, we got people in power, and police,  
that JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
They think they can police the problem away!!! That's like saying you  
can police the use of alcohol away.. its beyond stupid!! but "only in  
idiot america" does they think they could do it!!

What those people don't understand, is, when those people they bust  
end up with "felony's", they become "known felons" and can't get  
WORK!!! AND WHEN THEY GET OUT OF JAIL, GUESS WHAT???  THEY GO BACK TO  
THE SAME, AND ONLY WAY THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE MONEY!! DRUGS!! they  
can't fucking eat!!! so what the fuck do you think they are going to  
do??? what??

THis a real problem in this country.....   I hope to have some open  
discussion about this.

I tried in EMT class, but all it did was make me look like born again  
addict!! that might still be on shit!!! "illegal" shit, NOT THE "GOOD"  
LEGAL DRUGS!!!
OH, BUT NOW, PAIN MEDS IS NOW GETTING "ON THE RADER" SO EVEN Though I  
GOT  IC, I'M STILL IN PILE OF SHIT MODE!!!
AND I WAS TREATED LIKE TOO RUBBER DOG SHIT by all the ass hole docs in  
white!! ALL THE WHILE THE IDIOT UROS THREW BLEACH IN MY BLADDER!! TELL  
ME TO STAY OFF THE ADDICTIVE MEDS!! WHAT A BUNCH OF BS!!!

I get so upset with this stupid ass country!!!! I want to kill some  
days!!!

Even my doctor I go to, hes a good dude. i like him, I think he might  
even like me???  he had a drug problem, and  got on dilaudid, and it  
got out of control.. Then he went NA, and they brain washed him!! he  
tend to think nobody can get hit with a illness and then lose there  
minds and come in so what control.... Which most can't... But I was  
forced to take my meds.. I was forced into "learning" how to use some  
control over them, because my pain meds not going away any time real  
soon. so i was forced to "learn." if i wanted to have my pain  
controlled, and it took time to do this.. something i never thought I  
be able to do many years ago....

But he does write them.. I have a hard time functioning, i need  
adderall to keep my up, my morphine kill me at this..   But he does  
like adderall because of all this shit about meth in the media!!!
He knows I use to shoot up my opiates,  but what he doesn't know is,  
the stupid uros were pushing me too the damm shit!!

They drove me off a fucking cliff!!!  and you tell them your done with  
uros.. and they just can't fucking believe you....   They just don't  
understand, that they made the shit as bad as it was!!
I take fully responiabilty for my dumb ass shit... and my part in all  
the getting out there.. But what they don't understand is what much  
fucking pain i went through during this whole stupid ass thing!!

They don't understand how hard i had to work to get back, just to  
where I am!! and how I eat only chicken and rice for 4 damm years!!!  
to even be able to put shit on my fucking skin!!!
I am so fucking threw them the medical system!! I could just punch  
hole in the walls over it...

And yes, I am still taking pain meds.. and a few other control meds..  
But I am not in the kind of pain i use to be in!!! And if  I would  
have done what the stupid ass uros wanted me to do, I be on a fucking  
pain pump!!!  and that then YOUR really FUCKED!!!

AND THEY GOT "TOTAL CONTROL"  OVER YOUR ASS!!!

I don't know what they expect from you?? I really don't??
I mean, I do the fucking best I fucking can... I am not perfect!! no,  
I am not!! far from it!! but base on everything those idiots did to  
me, and then getting "extremely" out of control, and THEN PULLING  
"MYSELF"
"ME" "MY DAMM SELF" TOGETHER AND READING BOOKS ON HEALTH, AND DIETING  
MY FUCKING ASS OFF FOR YEARS!! AND GETTING MY ASS IN THE GYM!!

THEY CAN GO TO FUCKING HELL!!!!  I DID THE BEST I COULD BASE ON THE BS  
I WENT THROUGH!!  I DID SOME THINGS THAT I SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE... BUT  
THEY WON'T EVEN LOOK AT WHAT THE FUCK YOU WENT THREW!! ALL AT THE  
HANDS OF THE IDIOTS UROS!!

I will leave you with this,

IF you get sick, before you let the damm doctors do all types of "non  
addictive" treatments and meds to your ass.. please do some home  
work!!! and keep digging "forever" until you find a natural way to  
help what ever your ill from... from cancer to the dreaded AIDS.... I  
believe the body can heal its self, if giving the right things...  and  
this is one that EVERYBODY HATES!! "TIME!!!!!!"  YES, TIME!!  It may  
take a long time to fully heal.. depending on what has happened and  
how long you body check engine light has been on for with out you  
doing anything to fix it....

Now there is point when natural might not always work for everything..  
i understand that.. If get my dick cut off, i will be at the uros  
mercy on that one... LOL!! But I just say to avoid doctors as much as  
possible...
natural doctors seem to be better... But I still run into the same old  
BS logic way of thinking.. But better none the less... "slightly"  
still, kind of stupid!! But at least a bit some what better and  
knowing what to do with some of these "un healable" health problems...  
oh, un curable, to the medical people, but IF THERES A LOT OF PAIN, WE  
DON'T BELIEVE YOU!! YOUR A PILL SEEKER!!!
Its fucked the hell up!!

I had a doc up in indy that was complete ass hole!! I got out of the  
methadone clinic, But I was still struggling with my disease.. and he  
was a total ass hole about it!!
I told me I was just going to have to deal with the pain, I am like  
you GUYS JUST DON'T FUCKING GET IT!!! I been told so much shit, by so  
many stupid ass doctors, I think I am nuts from it all!! I think  
that's part of me being crazy!! is from them idiot ass holes!! I mean,  
yes, I use to injoy my pain meds when I first got my illness. Hey, I  
know MANY PEOPLE WITH PAIN, DO AND HAVE BEFORE...

BUT AFTER 10 + YEARS, I DON'T GET HIGH ON THEM ANYMORE!! YOU REACH A  
POINT WHERE, AT LEAST I AM, I JUST DON'T GET A BIG ASS HIGH OFF MY  
MEDS.. I JUST DON'T!!
They are suck idiots!!

I am so done!!  I can't smoke marijuana, i am force to take pain  
meds!! which am a STILL LABELED FOR!! I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY WOULD  
LET ME WORK AS A EMT ON THEM???
and I have one hell of a fight the day i try to work as EMT!! ONE HELL  
OF A FIGHT!!!  EVEN BEING ON SO CALLED "LEGAL" MEDS!!
ITS SO FUCKED UP!!

I just hate our system!! I just hate it! I might as well smoke the  
shit!! I'm labeled none the less!!  I can't stand the judgement that's  
place on you.. I can't stand it!! I was in my uros office when i first  
got this, and he was a idiot!! They are just dumb asses!! idiots!!  
looking back i wish i would to told them to take all there stupid ass  
non addictive treatments that were not working and told them all TO GO  
TO HELL!!!

They wanted to judge me for try steroids and one Christian ass hole  
dumb ass uro, that could even figure out what I had.. for having sex  
with my long term GF.. my only one!! not like I was going around  
sticking my dick in everything that moved... I hate this town at  
times!! its all religion BS!! I can't understand anybody that just  
will not hear anything about God or other BS!!
I really do!!  I "myself" do believe in Jesus, "I" believe he died on  
the cross, for these pea brains idiots!!! running around judging the  
world making the world a less nicer place!!!!! when they are just as  
fucked up OR MORE!! But find it extremely!!! extremely hard to go to  
church.. because of the idiots I dealt with in this STUPID ASS, IDIOT  
TOWN!!!

but, I do believe in God, me myself.. as crazy and nuts as that is...  
But I fully understand people who do not share this belief.. and I  
FULLY!! respect them!!  I am not like the other idiots who going  
around forcing what i believe on everybody, or what i believe to be  
right... its just hard for me to believe that there not a god..though  
at times.. I felt there was not...

But, I think 99.% of our drug laws come from religion... And i blame  
there stupid asses on it... To think we can become a drug free society  
is just completely out of touch with reality.....
If i had not gone threw my illness. i would not have a clue what it  
was like to be treated like a dog!!   and for something i barely could  
control!!!
all over a stupid ass war on drugs!!

I really do hope one day i don't need pain meds.. (or at least not  
every day) though i think I am going to need them for possibly a long  
time... and this thing, my bladder disease, when better.. its never  
going to be gone totally, so I am going to need pain meds sitting  
around, when i get into a flare... which might last a few days or so..

I am not going to just sit there and take it after all the stupid BS I  
went through with the stupid ass, idiot medical, dumb as a box full of  
rocks system..

I am just not doing it!! Ive been through too much.. But what i won't  
do is let it get out of hand... that what I wont' do... 5-15 sec of a  
rush, for me is just not worth the up and down Bull shit.. not to me  
its not.  I'm not going back that zone again.. I am just not..
fuck that shit..

I don't even have a desire for it.. I just don't.. I really don't have  
a desire for benozs anymore.. I really don't.. they make me sick...  
and I feel like I can't move after a while on them... I can't take  
it... how anybody wants to be on benozs long term is beyond me!! I  
couldn't stand being on valium for a month!! could not stand it!! even  
if i was in pain like I use to be I don't think i would stand it
  every now and again... maybe.. but all the time.. fuck that..

But anyway,..

if you have a medical problem, it would be wise to read up on what  
natural can do for you "1st", then turn to medical when all else  
falls, see about medical, but do so with caution!!! I didn't!! and  
that's the reason
I am where I am at!!= Dealing with urologist, that KNEW LESS THEN  
ME!!! but i thought there's got to be something they could do!.... YEA  
RIGHT!!  put me IN MORE PAIN!!! THEN TELL ME NOT TO GET ADDICTED!!!  
BUT HERE, HERE'S ALL THE NON ADDICTIVE MEDS YOU COULD EVER WANT!! ALL  
NON ADDICTIVE!! THAT DON'T EVEN WORK!!! AND MAKE MY PAIN WORSE!!!

NEVER MIND IF YOUR LIVER BLOWS THE FUCK UP, FROM YOUR NON ADDICTIVE  
MEDS!! NEVER MIND THAT!! I TELL YOU, ITS FUCKING NUTS!!!
TRY TO FIND A NATURAL ROUTE WHEN EVER POSSIBLE!!

And I sure people think, well your not off pain meds, who are you to  
say,, well, your right, I am not.. But at least i don't live in the  
bed 24/7!!! at least I can wash the fucking dishes!! at least I can  
keep my self clean, and my apt. clean!! and i am not in the kind pain  
i use to be in ALL THE TIME, 24/7!! I GET IN A BIT OF PAIN FROM TIME  
TO TIME.. ONCE A BIT DALY, WHERE AS BEFORE IT WAS NON STOP!! AND I HAD  
THOUGHTS OF CHECKING OUT DALY!!! THOSE IDIOT MEDICAL PEOPLE THINK THEY  
KNOW, THEY DON'T FUCKING KNOW SHIT!!

I am learning not to trust them so much... I know they got a job to  
do, and they try to do it.. I understand that..
I just tell people stay the fuck away from them, if you can!! That's  
all i tell people....
if you can't, you can't.. but if you find another way, and its not  
going to break your bank.. it might be wise to look into...

I am done WITH ALL MY SURGERIES!! ALL OF THEM!! D. O. N. E!!! DONE!!  
unless I get into a car crash, or gun battle, or both.. or some other  
extremely fuck of shit....... then i am fucked, and i got to go with  
the ass holes... But i WILL NOT!! LISTEN TO EVERYTHING THEY TELL ME!!  
IF i was to get my spine cut into, they would not tell me I am not  
walking again... I would tell them, Its a possible that may be true..  
but your not going to tell me that BS....  I believe in the power of  
the mind, and the power of what natural can do.. and I believe in some  
intervention "for some" small groups of people that want to help them  
selfs... and last, I believe in 1% of what medical can do...... It use  
to be the other way around.... I believed medical 1st.... then your  
fucked. then you just going to be this way forever(but pain can do  
crazy things to your mind!!! people don't know what "extreme" pain  
long term can do,

I Will take the pain and see if I can work it out somehow with natural  
or another means...

Natural will most likely cause you the least damage... most likely,  
its not 100% across the board though.. example natural poisons that  
"WILL" kill you. in all types of plants and some animals, mushrooms...
if your a mushroom hunter, it be wise to know what the fuck your  
doing!! or end up extremely dead!!! RIP!!

J
On Sep 2009, at 9:58 PM, Beverly Jackson wrote:

> I am trying to learn more about the begging and prostrating. I think  
> compared to changing the system, it's a shortcut.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:26 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>
>
> -- 
> "Love is the cure,
> for your pain will keep giving birth to more pain
> until your eyes constantly exhale love
> as effortlessly as your body yields it's
> scent."
> Rumi
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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From falleneden1 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 02:16:42 2009
From: falleneden1 at gmail.com (fallen eden)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 23:16:42 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <725c35de0909081640h2b1afbe2s1b76f260b6aa98ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA42740.8040908@gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909081640h2b1afbe2s1b76f260b6aa98ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8999cc760909082316o5a5f5a92x44a2adefadfeeed2@mail.gmail.com>

What type of surgery are you having to consider cal que? I think you'd
probably need pain meds after the surgery as well, just like any surgery
would call for narcotics afterwards. I'd make a guess that the safest thing
to do is use the pain meds before/after surgery as best you can control it,
and wait until your doctor examines the area(s) in question post-surgery and
confirms that you're healed successfully; I know common sense would tell
most of us that doing a treatment while someone still has stitches etc would
definitely be a bad idea.. good luck with it..

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:40 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Beverly, I'm glad you're doing so well!
>
> Matt~ thanks to you too man, I am glad to link that tek here. I think
> it's an easy way to go from root-bark to 'doable' medicine in short
> order...it's been brought to my attention that such an extract would
> be "unstable" and I would agree-- in that it's potency is not
> guaranteed indefinitely. However, it may be said here that this
> process is not meant to be used until the individual being treated is
> ready to use it...leaving the alkaloids safely in the bark until
> called for.
>
> On another note, I find myself in a predicament. I'm having to take
> narcotic analgesics for the past few weeks, and am already having
> problems taking them as prescribed. Also, the situation requiring
> surgery cannot be postponed due to increasing pain and potential
> complications, so no matter what, I have to do the TA afterward. I'm
> concerned... I'll probably write a Q and A for the many knowledgeable
> members of our community and hope to get some opinions on safety and
> ideas of how best to go about this. Thanks again.
>
>
>
> On 9/6/09, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey Cal I would guess this has already occurred to you but maybe you
> should
> > do the surgery first in case you have to take any narcotics for the pain.
> > Then you can hit your booster afterwards and hopefully handle any craving
> > that might get triggered by the medication.
> >
> > BTW I never said so before but thanks for putting your extraction tek out
> > there.  The more the merrier I figure on that front.  Knowledge is power.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > cal que wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Beverly, hello list..
> >>
> >> I have experience taking TA  for opiate addiction, and I can say with
> >> certainty that it works remarkably. Also, two of my closest friends
> >> have taken both the TA and the HCL for the same reasons and each of
> >> them preferred the TA over the ibogaine hcl. It seemed to us that the
> >> spectrum of other plant alkaloids worked syngersitically to 'get in
> >> there' where the HCL may have 'left off' this not to say that isolated
> >> ibogaine doesn't work thus, only a subjective preference of
> >> materials...I think it is interesting to note that perhaps they could
> >> be used concomitantly or in separate sessions, each using it's unique
> >> and powerful methods to cleanse and heal in different ways. This would
> >> be a good notion to explore in future studies. I myself have not been
> >> too well physically lately and have some nasty oral surgery to look
> >> forward to, it sucks because I have made arrangements to take TA iboga
> >> in the near future to cement and 'recapture' some of the healing that
> >> I experienced months ago in my initial session...I am looking to put
> >> 'the wind back in my sails' so to speak, but I may have to put off the
> >> surgery or the session, I'm not sure which just yet..thanks to all for
> >> being here, this list is a remarkable resource, blessings...K
> >> On 9/5/09, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> That does help.
> >>> :)
> >>> Thank you all.
> >>> Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?
> >>> Suboxone and TA? H and TA?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
> >>> <helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been
> >>>> clean
> >>>> of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.
>  I'd
> >>>> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract because
> I
> >>>> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the
> >>>> "spirit"
> >>>> of
> >>>> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one
> >>>> single
> >>>> active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more
> >>>> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with
> >>>> iboga),
> >>>> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get
> more
> >>>> benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by
> extracting
> >>>> the
> >>>> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it
> definitely
> >>>> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the cacti
> >>>> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full range
> >>>> of
> >>>> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those with
> >>>> other
> >>>> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or
> more
> >>>> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have never
> >>>> been
> >>>> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic
> >>>> experience.  Hope this helps!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> >> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> >>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>
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From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 04:03:21 2009
From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 04:03:21 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <8838F16D-359F-433F-A373-21A2C3D517C7@ca.rr.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
	<8838F16D-359F-433F-A373-21A2C3D517C7@ca.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1f5488f0909090103s6113f946nafa37bb43ba614b0@mail.gmail.com>

Warren I couldn't agree more.  Glad to see ya around.


On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Warren Theriot <wleetheriot at ca.rr.com>wrote:

> This blathering ignorant Birther nonsense continues to be a hot topic for
> masturbation doesn't it?
> On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:11 AM, DC from AZ wrote:
>
>
>  wow
>
> see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US status
> thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in US later would
> also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>
> in search of "all" truth<2of2.JPG><1of2.JPG>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
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>
>


-- 
~~_/) ~~
~~~~~~~
http://www.maps.org
?|Please consider the environment before printing.
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From dcollier9 at q.com  Wed Sep  9 12:27:11 2009
From: dcollier9 at q.com (DC from AZ)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:27:11 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Come to the party in Bisbee ! Bisbee Blues Fest
	9-19-2009 11am-9pm
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP962292992F91D564B98B53EBE90@phx.gbl>

see: http://www.bisbeebluesfest.com/

Tommy Castro Band
Pinetop Perkins
more

c'mon down and party at the Warren ball field in Bisbee, AZ

Sept 19, 2009, 11am - 9pm

for more info: http://www.kbrpradio.com/Stream.aspx

see the famous unique home crafted huge bong (confiscated) exhibit at Bisbee PD too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Donzo offline
>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> __________________________________________________
>> check this internet radio station every thursday night for great global 
>> music:
>> http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kxci/ppr/index.shtml
>>
>
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From kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com  Wed Sep  9 13:42:06 2009
From: kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com (Kevin Walker)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:42:06 +0200
Subject: [Ibogaine] New Developments
Message-ID: <000001ca3174$d9aecf40$8d0c6dc0$@com>

To All,

There seems to be misconception to a previous statement I posted on this
site and one or two other, on or about the 5th August 2009. I therefore
would like to bring clarification to the rumours and misunderstandings. For
ease of reference I have inserted in Italic the statement I posted on the
suggested date below.

I understand that the Ibogaine fraternity, are assuming that Ibogaine SA,
Ibogaine African Renaissance under sole directorship of myself (Kevin
Walker) and the Iboga Association Cape Town under sole directorship of Simon
Loxton are now business partners and or one of the same company in South
Africa.

This has been misinterpreted from the wording in my first paragraph of the
statement inserted; we are very different companies and are not associated
in anyway, with regard to management, financials, decision making and or any
other normal business function. We are totally independent! Simon has his
business / clinic and laboratory in Cape Town South Africa and I have mine
in Kempton Park South Africa some 1200km apart - so we are by no means
sitting at the same desk or office for that matter.

While both Simon and myself  have a working association with regard to
Ibogaine For Africa, which is a working group for:- Ibogaine Treatment
Providers, Ibogaine Research in South Africa, Ibogaine legalisation in South
Africa  and Ibogaine treatment protocols, it has no other association or
link to our personal / legal company at all. It is for the purposes of
taking Ibogaine to the next level in our country.

I trust that above statement is clear to all that read it, should there be
any questions with regard to the above you may contact either me or Simon
for clarification on our personal email addresses. All that I ask is that
the unfounded rumours come to an end, and people start working together for
the sake of a better cause, and stop the bullshit of trying constantly to
stab some else in the back.

 

New Developments:-

It has been mutually agreed between Ibogaine SA, Ibogaine African
Renaissance under directorship of Kevin Walker and the Iboga Association
Cape Town, under directorship of Simon Loxton, to form a working association
for Ibogaine providers in South Africa known as Ibogaine for Africa.

With South Africa being very unique in its African culture and diversity, we
as a working group have clearly identified that in order to see, true
successes of Ibogaine research, treatment protocols, and health legalities
and registration in our country it is of paramount importance to having all
facets of the Ibogaine fraternity working together towards a common goal,
that being Ibogaine legalised through the department of health, and the safe
and successful use of the product in South Africa. South Africa over the
past weeks and months has gone and is still going through a very notable
change with regard to the acceptance of traditional medicines, of which
Ibogaine is one of them.

Although the Tabernanthe Iboga is native to Africa it is not indigenous to
South Africa, and we are currently moving in the direction of getting it
accredited to the list of traditional medicines through the various
authorities and government departments. With all things being equal at the
end we will have a completely legal working environment, recognised by the
medical profession, who now also  fall under the same controlling body as
the traditional healers, where the patients' rights will be protected and
the providers will all be compliant in regard to admissions and treatments.
This offering even a broader base for those being treated, as medical aid /
insurances will be compelled to pay for a recognised treatment model.

Simon and I have taken this on as a challenge for South Africans and over
the coming weeks hope to have completed a transparent working document, and
business plan for the way forward. Unfortunately due to the sensitivity of
the current working document and departments associated, to our plight we
can't elaborate much more. For those interested in the association you may
contact either myself or Simon on our respective email addresses.

 

For: - Ibogaine for Africa

Kevin

 

 

Image5

 

NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)

 

Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note: This message is intended for the use of
the individual or entity to 

which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
confidential and exempt from exposure under applicable law.If the reader of
this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby  notified
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the  communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this in  error please destroy
immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus transmittal are taken
by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd  (and associated companies) we
cannot accept any responsibility for  viruses or their consequences.

 

12 Floria St

Edleen

Kempton Park

1619

 <Tel:+27> Tel:+27 11 976 4314

Cell:+27 82 557 8480

www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com

e-mail: kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com

 

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From maxx at izmudd.com  Wed Sep  9 14:02:59 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:02:59 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] =?iso-8859-1?q?New_Developments?=
Message-ID: <20090909180259.18578.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

Kevin (and Simon),

Again I applaud your efforts, your transparency and your directness.
People are people, I hope some will listen to your request. Drama is a
drug for many, just reworking old 'issues' mostly. Best I've ever been able
to do is my utmost to rise above being affected, and protect myself as best
I can. That, and approach the drama mongers individually, directly and
swiftly.
I wish you all the best.

Beverly


  	-------Original Message-------
From: Kevin Walker
Subject: [Ibogaine] New Developments
Sent: 09 Sep '09 09:42


To All,

There seems to be misconception to a previous statement I posted on this
site and one or two other, on or about the 5^th August 2009. I therefore
would like to bring clarification to the rumours and misunderstandings. For
ease of reference I have inserted in Italic the statement I posted on the
suggested date below.

I understand that the Ibogaine fraternity, are assuming that Ibogaine SA,
Ibogaine African Renaissance under sole directorship of myself (Kevin
Walker) and the Iboga Association Cape Town under sole directorship of
Simon Loxton are now business partners and or one of the same company in
South Africa.

This has been misinterpreted from the wording in my first paragraph of the
statement inserted; we are very different companies and are not associated
in anyway, with regard to management, financials, decision making and or
any other normal business function. We are totally independent! Simon has
his business / clinic and laboratory in Cape Town South Africa and I have
mine in Kempton Park South Africa some 1200km apart ? so we are by no means
sitting at the same desk or office for that matter.

While both Simon and myself  have a working association with regard to
Ibogaine For Africa, which is a working group for:- Ibogaine Treatment
Providers, Ibogaine Research in South Africa, Ibogaine legalisation in
South Africa  and Ibogaine treatment protocols, it has no other association
or link to our personal / legal company at all. It is for the purposes of
taking Ibogaine to the next level in our country.

I trust that above statement is clear to all that read it, should there be
any questions with regard to the above you may contact either me or Simon
for clarification on our personal email addresses. All that I ask is that
the unfounded rumours come to an end, and people start working together for
the sake of a better cause, and stop the bullshit of trying constantly to
stab some else in the back.


_New Developments:-_

_It has been mutually agreed between Ibogaine SA, Ibogaine African
Renaissance under directorship of Kevin Walker and the Iboga Association
Cape Town, under directorship of Simon Loxton, to form a working
association for Ibogaine providers in South Africa known as Ibogaine for
Africa._

_With South Africa being very unique in its African culture and diversity,
we as a working group have clearly identified that in order to see, true
successes of Ibogaine research, treatment protocols, and health legalities
and registration in our country it is of paramount importance to having all
facets of the Ibogaine fraternity working together towards a common goal,
that being Ibogaine legalised through the department of health, and the
safe and successful use of the product in South Africa. South Africa over
the past weeks and months has gone and is still going through a very
notable change with regard to the acceptance of traditional medicines, of
which Ibogaine is one of them._

_Although the Tabernanthe Iboga is native to Africa it is not indigenous
to South Africa, and we are currently moving in the direction of getting it
accredited to the list of traditional medicines through the various
authorities and government departments. With all things being equal at the
end we will have a completely legal working environment, recognised by the
medical profession, who now also  fall under the same controlling body as
the traditional healers, where the patients? rights will be protected and
the providers will all be compliant in regard to admissions and treatments.
This offering even a broader base for those being treated, as medical aid /
insurances will be compelled to pay for a recognised treatment model._

_Simon and I have taken this on as a challenge for South Africans and over
the coming weeks hope to have completed a transparent working document, and
business plan for the way forward. Unfortunately due to the sensitivity of
the current working document and departments associated, to our plight we
can?t elaborate much more. For those interested in the association you may
contact either myself or Simon on our respective email addresses._

_ _

_For: - Ibogaine for Africa_

_Kevin_


NHP / DR KEVIN WALKER (REG NO: 6206429)


_DISCLAIMER AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED FOR THE USE
OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO _

_WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED,
CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM EXPOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW.IF THE READER OF
THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE SOLE AUTHORISED RECIPIENT YOU ARE HEREBY  NOTIFIED
THAT ANY DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THE  COMMUNICATION IS
STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS IN  ERROR PLEASE DESTROY
IMMEDIATELY. WHILST SUITABLE PRECAUTIONS AGAINST VIRUS TRANSMITTAL ARE
TAKEN BY IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (PTY)  LTD  (AND ASSOCIATED
COMPANIES) WE CANNOT ACCEPT ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR  VIRUSES OR THEIR
CONSEQUENCES._

_ _

_12 FLORIA ST_

_EDLEEN_

_KEMPTON PARK_

_1619_

_[LINK: TEL:+27] TEL:+27 11 976 4314_

_CELL:+27 82 557 8480_

_[LINK: HTTP://WWW.IBOGAINEAFRICANRENAISSANCE.COM/]
WWW.IBOGAINEAFRICANRENAISSANCE.COM_

_E-MAIL: [LINK: MAILTO:KEVIN at IBOGAINEAFRICANRENAISSANCE.COM]
KEVIN at IBOGAINEAFRICANRENAISSANCE.COM_


          --------------------

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From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 14:58:29 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:58:29 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <8999cc760909082316o5a5f5a92x44a2adefadfeeed2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA42740.8040908@gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909081640h2b1afbe2s1b76f260b6aa98ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8999cc760909082316o5a5f5a92x44a2adefadfeeed2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725c35de0909091158j7baf84ecy9ca665146ca8d830@mail.gmail.com>

thanks fallen, for your reply...I'm having (many) teeth extracted and
they expect complications with some, also having an appliance
'installed' in place of the extracted teeth, this sucks terribly and
it's frankly embarrassing to me to even have to go this route, but
there really is no other option left. funny how things turn out, I had
planned on taking a TA dose as soon as possible, and it just so
happens that the material will arrive (probably) almost exactly when
this procedure is scheduled...iI will just have to wait this out it
seems.



On 9/9/09, fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> What type of surgery are you having to consider cal que? I think you'd
> probably need pain meds after the surgery as well, just like any surgery
> would call for narcotics afterwards. I'd make a guess that the safest thing
> to do is use the pain meds before/after surgery as best you can control it,
> and wait until your doctor examines the area(s) in question post-surgery and
> confirms that you're healed successfully; I know common sense would tell
> most of us that doing a treatment while someone still has stitches etc would
> definitely be a bad idea.. good luck with it..
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:40 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Beverly, I'm glad you're doing so well!
>>
>> Matt~ thanks to you too man, I am glad to link that tek here. I think
>> it's an easy way to go from root-bark to 'doable' medicine in short
>> order...it's been brought to my attention that such an extract would
>> be "unstable" and I would agree-- in that it's potency is not
>> guaranteed indefinitely. However, it may be said here that this
>> process is not meant to be used until the individual being treated is
>> ready to use it...leaving the alkaloids safely in the bark until
>> called for.
>>
>> On another note, I find myself in a predicament. I'm having to take
>> narcotic analgesics for the past few weeks, and am already having
>> problems taking them as prescribed. Also, the situation requiring
>> surgery cannot be postponed due to increasing pain and potential
>> complications, so no matter what, I have to do the TA afterward. I'm
>> concerned... I'll probably write a Q and A for the many knowledgeable
>> members of our community and hope to get some opinions on safety and
>> ideas of how best to go about this. Thanks again.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/6/09, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hey Cal I would guess this has already occurred to you but maybe you
>> should
>> > do the surgery first in case you have to take any narcotics for the
>> > pain.
>> > Then you can hit your booster afterwards and hopefully handle any
>> > craving
>> > that might get triggered by the medication.
>> >
>> > BTW I never said so before but thanks for putting your extraction tek
>> > out
>> > there.  The more the merrier I figure on that front.  Knowledge is
>> > power.
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > cal que wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Beverly, hello list..
>> >>
>> >> I have experience taking TA  for opiate addiction, and I can say with
>> >> certainty that it works remarkably. Also, two of my closest friends
>> >> have taken both the TA and the HCL for the same reasons and each of
>> >> them preferred the TA over the ibogaine hcl. It seemed to us that the
>> >> spectrum of other plant alkaloids worked syngersitically to 'get in
>> >> there' where the HCL may have 'left off' this not to say that isolated
>> >> ibogaine doesn't work thus, only a subjective preference of
>> >> materials...I think it is interesting to note that perhaps they could
>> >> be used concomitantly or in separate sessions, each using it's unique
>> >> and powerful methods to cleanse and heal in different ways. This would
>> >> be a good notion to explore in future studies. I myself have not been
>> >> too well physically lately and have some nasty oral surgery to look
>> >> forward to, it sucks because I have made arrangements to take TA iboga
>> >> in the near future to cement and 'recapture' some of the healing that
>> >> I experienced months ago in my initial session...I am looking to put
>> >> 'the wind back in my sails' so to speak, but I may have to put off the
>> >> surgery or the session, I'm not sure which just yet..thanks to all for
>> >> being here, this list is a remarkable resource, blessings...K
>> >> On 9/5/09, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> That does help.
>> >>> :)
>> >>> Thank you all.
>> >>> Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?
>> >>> Suboxone and TA? H and TA?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
>> >>> <helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been
>> >>>> clean
>> >>>> of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.
>>  I'd
>> >>>> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract
>> >>>> because
>> I
>> >>>> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the
>> >>>> "spirit"
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one
>> >>>> single
>> >>>> active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more
>> >>>> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with
>> >>>> iboga),
>> >>>> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get
>> more
>> >>>> benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by
>> extracting
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it
>> definitely
>> >>>> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the
>> >>>> cacti
>> >>>> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full
>> >>>> range
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those with
>> >>>> other
>> >>>> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or
>> more
>> >>>> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have
>> >>>> never
>> >>>> been
>> >>>> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic
>> >>>> experience.  Hope this helps!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> >> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> >>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>

From dcollier9 at q.com  Wed Sep  9 15:01:28 2009
From: dcollier9 at q.com (DC from AZ)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:01:28 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] ways to be needed in the workplace or elsewhere
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP6682AC8BD665F261E56D6EBE90@phx.gbl>

Building Trust
Consistently demonstrates honesty; keeps commitments; behaves in a consistent manner. Guides others in sharing thoughts, feelings, and rationale so that other project leads, managers, interorganizational employees and external customers understand personal positions. Consistently listens to others and objectively considers others' ideas and opinions, even when they conflict with one's own. Consistently treats people with dignity, respect, and fairness; gives proper credit to others; stands up for deserving others and their ideas even in the face of resistance or challenge.

Collaboration
Consistently works effectively and cooperatively with team members and fellow project team leaders, other employees and external customers. Establishes and maintains good working relationships by actively involving less experienced employees and/or other project team leaders and external customers and helping them feel valued, appreciated, and included in discussions. Places higher priority on team and organization goals than on own goals. Offers to provide assistance and/or project team leadership to other teams and/or employees when doing so would benefit the organization.

Communication
Consistently clarifies purpose and importance; stresses major points; follows a logical sequence. Consistently keeps the audience thoroughly engaged through use of techniques such as analogies, illustrations, humor, an appealing style, body language, and voice inflection. Consistently frames even complex messages in line with audience experience, background, and expectations; uses terms, examples, and analogies that are meaningful to the audience. Consistently seeks input from audience; checks understanding; presents message in different ways to enhance understanding. Uses syntax, pace, volume, diction, and mechanics appropriate to the media being used; attends to both direct and indirect messages from others; correctly interprets messages and responds appropriately. Advises fellow project leads and other internal employees in effective communication techniques.

Decision Making
Consistently recognizes a wide range of complex, specialized issues, problems, or opportunities in own work group, across the organization and with external customers; determines whether action is needed. Steadily identifies the need for and collects information to better understand issues, problems, and opportunities. Regularly integrates complex information from a wide variety of sources; detects complex trends, associations, and cause-effect relationships. Consistently creates relevant options for addressing problems/opportunities and achieving desired outcomes. Formulates clear decision criteria; evaluates options by considering implications and consequences; chooses an effective option. Consistently implements decisions or initiates action within a reasonable time. Regularly includes fellow project leads, employees across the organization, and external customers in the decision-making process as warranted to obtain good information, make the most appropriate decisions, and ensure buy-in and understanding of the resulting decisions.

hope this helps
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Donzo offline
>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> __________________________________________________
>> check this internet radio station every thursday night for great global 
>> music:
>> http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kxci/ppr/index.shtml
>>
>
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From ibogamail at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 15:14:46 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:14:46 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT - ways to be needed in the workplace or elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP6682AC8BD665F261E56D6EBE90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6682AC8BD665F261E56D6EBE90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA7FEA6.4080806@gmail.com>

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From dcollier9 at q.com  Wed Sep  9 15:20:23 2009
From: dcollier9 at q.com (DC from AZ)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:20:23 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot church member loses AZ case
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP110B57987DE0C17B0E1C82EBE90@phx.gbl>

Pot church member loses AZ case 
State Supreme Court: Believers not entitled to use marijuana anywhere, at any time 
By Howard Fischer 
Capitol Media Services 
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 09.09.2009

PHOENIX - The state's interest in banning marijuana outweighs the religious beliefs of people who hold that they are entitled to use the drug anywhere, the Arizona Supreme Court ruled Tuesday. 
In the first ruling of its kind in Arizona, the justices said state law permits the government to "burden the exercise of religion" only if it shows a compelling interest, and if the restrictions are the "least restrictive means of furthering that interest." 
And Daniel Hardesty, who contends that his membership in the Church of Cognizance allows him to use marijuana, also conceded to the court that there is some governmental interest in the regulation of marijuana. 
But Chief Justice Rebecca White Berch said Hardesty's claim that membership in the church allows the congregation to use the drug in any amounts they want, anywhere and at any time, including while driving, shows an outright ban is the "least restrictive means" for the government to further its interest in protecting the public. 
Even after Tuesday's ruling, the state high court could conclude in another case, with different facts and religious claims, that some form of religious use of marijuana is protected by Arizona's Free Exercise of Religion Act. Berch, writing for the unanimous court, pointed out that the courts have allowed users of peyote to use federal laws to shield them from prosecution against state drug laws. 
She said, though, that there is "an obvious difference" between that situation and what is occurring here. 
"Members of the Native American Church assert only the religious right to use peyote in limited sacramental rites," the chief justice wrote. "Hardesty asserts the right to use marijuana whenever he pleases, including while driving." 
Hardesty was arrested in 2005 after being stopped by police while driving in Yavapai County. At trial, he testified that he had been a practicing member of the Church of Cognizance since 1993. 
A church official testified that the religion, founded in 1991, is based on "neo-Zoroastrian tenets" and that marijuana provides a connection to the divine mind and spiritual enlightenment. The judge also was told the church is made up of "individual orthodox member monasteries," each consisting of a family unit that establishes its own mode of worship. 
Yavapai County Superior Court Judge Thomas Lindberg said at the trial that Hardesty's claim of religious use of marijuana was not made "in bad faith" and that it was something Hardesty was "sincerely professing at the time." 
Prosecutors never challenged the status of the church. But they persuaded the judge to exclude the religious-freedom claim. Hardesty was convicted and placed on probation for 18 months. 
In arguments to the Supreme Court, Hardesty contended he was entitled to a separate hearing to determine if the state had a compelling interest in regulating marijuana, and whether the outright ban was the least restrictive means of infringing on his religious rights. 
Berch, however, said there is a long line of case law showing that marijuana poses a threat to individual health and social welfare. She specifically cited the state's interests in regulating criminal drug trafficking and associated crimes. 
As to the issue of the level of restriction, Berch said the government must show only that other means are impractical or ineffective. Given Hardesty's claim that he should be allowed, in the name of his religion, to use marijuana when and where he wants, the justice said nothing short of an outright ban will protect the public interest. 
Daniel DeRienzo, one of Hardesty's attorneys, has criticized the position of prosecutors that allowing church members to use marijuana would result in serious harm. He called that "the 'Reefer Madness' argument," referring to a 1936 propaganda film that claimed high schoolers lured into marijuana use engaged in manslaughter, suicide and rape, and descended into madness. 
Tuesday's ruling is the second defeat in two years for members of the Church of Cognizance. 
Last year, a Graham County couple who said they founded the religion in the early 1990s were found guilty of possession and conspiracy with intent to distribute marijuana after being stopped with 172 pounds of the drug in their vehicle near Las Cruces, N.M. A federal judge in New Mexico rejected their religious-freedom arguments. 
Danuel Quaintance was sentenced to five years in prison; his wife, Mary, was sentenced to two to three years.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Donzo offline
>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> __________________________________________________
>> check this internet radio station every thursday night for great global 
>> music:
>> http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kxci/ppr/index.shtml
>>
>
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From dcollier9 at q.com  Wed Sep  9 15:16:56 2009
From: dcollier9 at q.com (DC from AZ)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:16:56 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] With its 2 founders serving time,
	church of pot is devastated
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP608197A1942D49B2F324C8EBE90@phx.gbl>

With its 2 founders serving time, church of pot is devastated 
By Stephanie Innes 
ARIZONA DAILY STAR 
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 09.09.2009

 
The two Southeastern Arizona founders of a church that deifies marijuana are both serving time in federal prison for illegal drug possession. 
Danuel and Mary Quaintance, both in their 50s, have been unconstitutionally locked up for practicing their faith, said Daniel Jeffrey, an elder with the Church of Cognizance. 
The church operates under the motto: "With good thoughts, good words and good deeds, we honor marijuana: as the teacher, the provider, the protector." 
A federal judge in New Mexico sent the Quaintances to prison earlier this year after they pleaded guilty to two criminal counts related to a 2006 federal arrest - one count of conspiracy with intent to distribute 200 pounds or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of marijuana; and one count of possession with the intent to distribute 100 pounds or more of a substance containing a detectable amount of marijuana; as well as aiding and abetting. 
Danuel Quaintance, a 57-year-old Vietnam veteran and retired welder, is serving a five-year sentence at a facility at the Federal Correctional Institute in Terminal Island, Calif., near Long Beach. Mary Quaintance, 54, is serving two years at the Victorville Federal Correctional Complex in Adelanto, Calif. 
The Quaintances' home base is a 4-acre property in Pima, Ariz., which is about 90 miles northeast of Tucson. Their children and grandchildren still live on their property, Jeffrey said. 
"Dan and Mary are the heads of their family, and it's been heartbreaking for everyone," Jeffrey said. "They are two of the nicest people, with no criminal element whatsoever. They never profiteered from the herb." 
The pair had attempted to have the charges against them dismissed on the grounds that marijuana is part of their religion. 
The U.S. Constitution contains no legally recognizable definition of religion, but courts still can apply a test of sincerity. 
The couple thought a 2006 U.S. Supreme Court decision on another religious group's use of hallucinogenic tea would spare them. In that case, the nation's highest court ruled unanimously that a small religious group based in Santa Fe that combines Christianity and American Indian practices could use hallucinogenic tea in its ceremonies. The tea, called hoasca, contains dimethyltryptamine, or DMT, known for its hallucinogenic properties. 
A variety of groups representing millions of members filed briefs supporting O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal, or UDV, and its use of hoasca - among them the Arizona Civil Liberties Union, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the National Association of Evangelicals and the Union for Reform Judaism. Some supporters likened banning the tea to a federal ban on sacramental wine. 
But federal prosecutors said hoasca case did not apply to the Quaintances. Rather, they argued that religious freedom does not exempt the use of illegal drugs. 
A U.S. District Court agreed with the prosecution, and the Quaintances said that's why they pleaded guilty - without the religion defense, they knew they'd be convicted at trial. 
Still, the Quaintances expect an eventual reprieve. Danuel Quaintance has said he believes the case will one day wind up before the Supreme Court. 
There's no evidence the couple ever grew their leafy, green sacrament. Rather, they said they relied on donations of it, which they picked up from church "couriers." They said that's what they were about to do when they were arrested in Lordsburg, N.M. 
The pair has said they founded their Church of Cognizance in Pima in 1991. During an interview with the Arizona Daily Star in 2006, Danuel said the church had between 40 and 50 members in Arizona, and numerous others scattered throughout the country. 
"Marijuana is the averter of death," he said at the time. "The energy and spirit that is in marijuana is God. You consume the plant, and you consume God. You are sacrificing your body to the deity." 
Jeffrey said the couple's imprisonment has been crushing to both the church and the integrity of the First Amendment. 
"Dan and Mary made a tragic mistake," Jeffrey said. "They believed there was freedom of religion in the United States." 
Contact reporter Stephanie Innes at 573-4134 or sinnes at azstarnet.com Follow Stephanie Innes on Twitter at twitter.com/stephanieinnes 

any legal or rich folks out there that can help these poor people ?
the religion defence applies to iboga too, I would bet.
c'mon ACLU, Norml, who ever ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Donzo offline
>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> __________________________________________________
>> check this internet radio station every thursday night for great global 
>> music:
>> http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kxci/ppr/index.shtml
>>
>
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From falleneden1 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 15:41:05 2009
From: falleneden1 at gmail.com (fallen eden)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:41:05 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <725c35de0909091158j7baf84ecy9ca665146ca8d830@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090904135651.9204.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<512011.23027.qm@web55903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<68a68f8a0909051307l52868aadr1b868fa9add116bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909061305n7dd8a768t33ee665f6ac6b879@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA42740.8040908@gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909081640h2b1afbe2s1b76f260b6aa98ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8999cc760909082316o5a5f5a92x44a2adefadfeeed2@mail.gmail.com>
	<725c35de0909091158j7baf84ecy9ca665146ca8d830@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8999cc760909091241x55215dc2h815c9e9eb5c52390@mail.gmail.com>

Aww, that's a shame to have lots of teeth pulled. I remember my wisdom teeth
extraction, that was pretty hard, I remember the doctor even prescribed
dilaudid (for me as a teenager at the time strangely) and it didn't even
take care of the pain that well. Advil seemed to work better ironically
because it reduced the swelling. I think one of the main complications you
could have would be pieces of the tooth/root breaking off inside the gums
while they're doing the pulling; when that happens they have to go through a
bunch of trouble to try to fish all the pieces out of the gums. It happened
to one of my friends once during a wisdom teeth extraction and he said it
was really unpleasant. I think one good thing about the nature of that type
of surgery is that your recovery time could be faster than for other types
of surgeries, and it's not a surgery affecting internal organs.. I think
that's probably an advantage.. but there could be some issues if they're
planning to do follow up work on the teeth soon after the first major
surgery (I think in some cases they do a series of procedures for detal work
like this?), that could interfere with trying to do your treatment if you're
still waiting for the areas to heal.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:58 AM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:

> thanks fallen, for your reply...I'm having (many) teeth extracted and
> they expect complications with some, also having an appliance
> 'installed' in place of the extracted teeth, this sucks terribly and
> it's frankly embarrassing to me to even have to go this route, but
> there really is no other option left. funny how things turn out, I had
> planned on taking a TA dose as soon as possible, and it just so
> happens that the material will arrive (probably) almost exactly when
> this procedure is scheduled...iI will just have to wait this out it
> seems.
>
>
>
> On 9/9/09, fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What type of surgery are you having to consider cal que? I think you'd
> > probably need pain meds after the surgery as well, just like any surgery
> > would call for narcotics afterwards. I'd make a guess that the safest
> thing
> > to do is use the pain meds before/after surgery as best you can control
> it,
> > and wait until your doctor examines the area(s) in question post-surgery
> and
> > confirms that you're healed successfully; I know common sense would tell
> > most of us that doing a treatment while someone still has stitches etc
> would
> > definitely be a bad idea.. good luck with it..
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:40 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Beverly, I'm glad you're doing so well!
> >>
> >> Matt~ thanks to you too man, I am glad to link that tek here. I think
> >> it's an easy way to go from root-bark to 'doable' medicine in short
> >> order...it's been brought to my attention that such an extract would
> >> be "unstable" and I would agree-- in that it's potency is not
> >> guaranteed indefinitely. However, it may be said here that this
> >> process is not meant to be used until the individual being treated is
> >> ready to use it...leaving the alkaloids safely in the bark until
> >> called for.
> >>
> >> On another note, I find myself in a predicament. I'm having to take
> >> narcotic analgesics for the past few weeks, and am already having
> >> problems taking them as prescribed. Also, the situation requiring
> >> surgery cannot be postponed due to increasing pain and potential
> >> complications, so no matter what, I have to do the TA afterward. I'm
> >> concerned... I'll probably write a Q and A for the many knowledgeable
> >> members of our community and hope to get some opinions on safety and
> >> ideas of how best to go about this. Thanks again.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/6/09, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hey Cal I would guess this has already occurred to you but maybe you
> >> should
> >> > do the surgery first in case you have to take any narcotics for the
> >> > pain.
> >> > Then you can hit your booster afterwards and hopefully handle any
> >> > craving
> >> > that might get triggered by the medication.
> >> >
> >> > BTW I never said so before but thanks for putting your extraction tek
> >> > out
> >> > there.  The more the merrier I figure on that front.  Knowledge is
> >> > power.
> >> >
> >> > Matt
> >> >
> >> > cal que wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Beverly, hello list..
> >> >>
> >> >> I have experience taking TA  for opiate addiction, and I can say with
> >> >> certainty that it works remarkably. Also, two of my closest friends
> >> >> have taken both the TA and the HCL for the same reasons and each of
> >> >> them preferred the TA over the ibogaine hcl. It seemed to us that the
> >> >> spectrum of other plant alkaloids worked syngersitically to 'get in
> >> >> there' where the HCL may have 'left off' this not to say that
> isolated
> >> >> ibogaine doesn't work thus, only a subjective preference of
> >> >> materials...I think it is interesting to note that perhaps they could
> >> >> be used concomitantly or in separate sessions, each using it's unique
> >> >> and powerful methods to cleanse and heal in different ways. This
> would
> >> >> be a good notion to explore in future studies. I myself have not been
> >> >> too well physically lately and have some nasty oral surgery to look
> >> >> forward to, it sucks because I have made arrangements to take TA
> iboga
> >> >> in the near future to cement and 'recapture' some of the healing that
> >> >> I experienced months ago in my initial session...I am looking to put
> >> >> 'the wind back in my sails' so to speak, but I may have to put off
> the
> >> >> surgery or the session, I'm not sure which just yet..thanks to all
> for
> >> >> being here, this list is a remarkable resource, blessings...K
> >> >> On 9/5/09, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That does help.
> >> >>> :)
> >> >>> Thank you all.
> >> >>> Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?
> >> >>> Suboxone and TA? H and TA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
> >> >>> <helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have
> been
> >> >>>> clean
> >> >>>> of opiates since.  I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.
> >>  I'd
> >> >>>> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract
> >> >>>> because
> >> I
> >> >>>> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the
> >> >>>> "spirit"
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one
> >> >>>> single
> >> >>>> active.  Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much
> more
> >> >>>> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with
> >> >>>> iboga),
> >> >>>> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get
> >> more
> >> >>>> benefit.  I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by
> >> extracting
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it
> >> definitely
> >> >>>> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the
> >> >>>> cacti
> >> >>>> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full
> >> >>>> range
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method.  For those
> with
> >> >>>> other
> >> >>>> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or
> >> more
> >> >>>> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have
> >> >>>> never
> >> >>>> been
> >> >>>> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic
> >> >>>> experience.  Hope this helps!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> >> >> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> >> >>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> >> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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> >>
> >
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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From mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 14:45:26 2009
From: mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com (michael langshaw)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] testimonial update!!!
Message-ID: <589384.34996.qm@web44915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello All
Just a quick testimonial update. I guess you could say that my treatment was a success.?I did my Ibogaine back on 2/28/09 and have been opiate and cocaine free since. Ironically the great miracle of this drug is this. Though?I was an opiate addict my mind was obsessed on smoking and shooting cocaine to the extent that I cant even explain. Everything and anything would send me into this euphoric recall of that initial rush. I'm not saying I gave into it overtime, for the most part I?rarely did,?but the thought of it was very frequent and very vivid and strong enough to make my stomach flip. Since my treatment the obsession has been removed. Its very strange. I cant even try to induce this "euphoric recall". Its almost like the memory has been erased. Unfortunately I am an alcoholic as well and did not stop drinking until recently. The only way I know how?to keep this in check is The 12 steps. If I could afford another ibo?treatment for alcohol and
 the spiritual benefits of this miraculous drug, I'd do it tomorrow. It is my advise to anyone suffering from addiction, especially opiate addiction to seek this , find it and commit to it.?I will always be grateful to the people on this list who guided me and helped find me treatment. YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE. I haven't had a comp for a while and still wont. Just wanted to give an update and say hello to my IBOBUDDIES.
Lots of love to all and may we all get what we need,
Mike


      
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From shilohver at shaw.ca  Wed Sep  9 16:14:49 2009
From: shilohver at shaw.ca (sv)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:14:49 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun rights
Message-ID: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>

well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would certainly encourage outlawing handguns. Your situation with the raccoon i found hilarious. And if people did say what you reported then i can only say that they've never lived outside of the city. My father in law shot 13 bears the fisrt year he moved to his little house (which is definately rural...nearest neighbor several miles). the bears were all shot near the house. he has cat food on the porch and i think they were going for that.
anyway, since the "save the bears" movement, the bear population up here has skyrocketed. My husband refuses to "tent" it unless he has a repeater shotgun in the tent with us. Just this year, a dump bear, attacked a small child (camping situation) and killed it. the mother ran to defend her child and the bear killed her instantly. An "american" happened to witness all this and he shot the bear dead with his rifle. The autopsy guys said that the bear was the skinniest bear they had ever seen. He was damn hungry. (and they had just closed that particualt dump site that year). He probably didn't know how to forage on his own.

shiloh
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From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 16:22:50 2009
From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] testimonial update!!!
In-Reply-To: <589384.34996.qm@web44915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <103643.14203.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi Mike,

I'm glad for ya Buddy.? Six months is a long time in a way.
The best part is not having the cravings.? When I fight
the cravings the cravings always win.? Sometimes I 
wanted to kick and would tell myself no, not today and
then five minutes later I would give in.??? Watch out when 
you start getting your cravings. 

Best to ya Mike,

? - JIM

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] testimonial update!!!
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 2:45 PM

Hello All
Just a quick testimonial update. I guess you could say that my treatment was a success.?I did my Ibogaine back on 2/28/09 and have been opiate and cocaine free since. Ironically the great miracle of this drug is this. Though?I was an opiate addict my mind was obsessed on smoking and shooting cocaine to the extent that I cant even explain. Everything and anything would send me into this euphoric recall of that initial rush. I'm not saying I gave into it overtime, for the most part I?rarely did,?but the thought of it was very frequent and very vivid and strong enough to make my stomach flip. Since my treatment the obsession has been removed. Its very strange. I cant even try to induce this "euphoric recall". Its almost like the memory has been erased. Unfortunately I am an alcoholic as well and did not stop drinking until recently. The only way I know how?to keep this in check is The 12 steps. If I could afford another
 ibo?treatment for alcohol and the spiritual benefits of this miraculous drug, I'd do it tomorrow. It is my advise to anyone suffering from addiction, especially opiate addiction to seek this , find it and commit to it.?I will always be grateful to the people on this list who guided me and helped find me treatment. YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE. I haven't had a comp for a while and still wont. Just wanted to give an update and say hello to my IBOBUDDIES.
Lots of love to all and may we all get what we need,
Mike


      
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
(][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-



      
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From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 16:57:09 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:57:09 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun rights
In-Reply-To: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>
References: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30909091357u60cafdbfueab3c54d58ed6440@mail.gmail.com>

SV,
you said
"well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would certainly
encourage outlawing handguns"
are you saying you want handguns outlawed????
that sounds plain crazy, then what would i carry on my hip?? a shotgun?? i
think not...
lol



On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:14 PM, sv <shilohver at shaw.ca> wrote:

>  well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would certainly
> encourage outlawing handguns. Your situation with the raccoon i found
> hilarious. And if people did say what you reported then i can only say that
> they've never lived outside of the city. My father in law shot 13 bears the
> fisrt year he moved to his little house (which is definately rural...nearest
> neighbor several miles). the bears were all shot near the house. he has cat
> food on the porch and i think they were going for that.
> anyway, since the "save the bears" movement, the bear population up here
> has skyrocketed. My husband refuses to "tent" it unless he has a repeater
> shotgun in the tent with us. Just this year, a dump bear, attacked a small
> child (camping situation) and killed it. the mother ran to defend her child
> and the bear killed her instantly. An "american" happened to witness all
> this and he shot the bear dead with his rifle. The autopsy guys said that
> the bear was the skinniest bear they had ever seen. He was damn hungry. (and
> they had just closed that particualt dump site that year). He probably
> didn't know how to forage on his own.
>
> shiloh
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
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From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 16:58:38 2009
From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction,
	what do you think?
In-Reply-To: <8999cc760909091241x55215dc2h815c9e9eb5c52390@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <350200.48883.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Hi cal que,

I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.? I
have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
for 30 days.

BTW, what is an appliance??? Never heard of it, but I just may
have to go that route.? Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
canal.? And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
means you need a bridge or partial.? Or then have implants
I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.? The
bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.

Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.? A dry
socket REALLY hurts.? I had to back and have them give
me a shot and put some medication in the gum.? The one
and only time.

Wishing you the best,

? - JIM

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hcl better than Extract at treating opiate addiction, what do you think?
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 3:41 PM

Aww, that's a shame to have lots of teeth?pulled.?I remember my wisdom teeth extraction, that was pretty hard, I remember the doctor even prescribed dilaudid (for me as a teenager at the time strangely) and it didn't even take care of the pain that well. Advil seemed to work better ironically because it reduced the swelling. I think one of the main complications you could have would be pieces of the tooth/root breaking off inside the gums while they're doing the pulling; when that happens they have to go through a bunch of trouble to try to fish all the pieces out of the gums. It happened to one of my friends once during a wisdom teeth extraction and he said it was really unpleasant. I think one good thing about the nature of that type of surgery is that your recovery time could be faster than for other types of surgeries, and it's not a surgery affecting internal organs.. I think that's probably an advantage.. but there could be some issues if they're
 planning to do follow up work on the teeth soon after the first major surgery (I think in some cases they do a series of procedures for detal work like this?),?that could interfere with trying to do your treatment if you're still waiting for the?areas to heal.



On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:58 AM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:

thanks fallen, for your reply...I'm having (many) teeth extracted and
they expect complications with some, also having an appliance

'installed' in place of the extracted teeth, this sucks terribly and
it's frankly embarrassing to me to even have to go this route, but
there really is no other option left. funny how things turn out, I had

planned on taking a TA dose as soon as possible, and it just so
happens that the material will arrive (probably) almost exactly when
this procedure is scheduled...iI will just have to wait this out it
seems.






On 9/9/09, fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> What type of surgery are you having to consider cal que? I think you'd
> probably need pain meds after the surgery as well, just like any surgery

> would call for narcotics afterwards. I'd make a guess that the safest thing
> to do is use the pain meds before/after surgery as best you can control it,
> and wait until your doctor examines the area(s) in question post-surgery and

> confirms that you're healed successfully; I know common sense would tell
> most of us that doing a treatment while someone still has stitches etc would
> definitely be a bad idea.. good luck with it..

>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:40 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Beverly, I'm glad you're doing so well!
>>

>> Matt~ thanks to you too man, I am glad to link that tek here. I think
>> it's an easy way to go from root-bark to 'doable' medicine in short
>> order...it's been brought to my attention that such an extract would

>> be "unstable" and I would agree-- in that it's potency is not
>> guaranteed indefinitely. However, it may be said here that this
>> process is not meant to be used until the individual being treated is

>> ready to use it...leaving the alkaloids safely in the bark until
>> called for.
>>
>> On another note, I find myself in a predicament. I'm having to take
>> narcotic analgesics for the past few weeks, and am already having

>> problems taking them as prescribed. Also, the situation requiring
>> surgery cannot be postponed due to increasing pain and potential
>> complications, so no matter what, I have to do the TA afterward. I'm

>> concerned... I'll probably write a Q and A for the many knowledgeable
>> members of our community and hope to get some opinions on safety and
>> ideas of how best to go about this. Thanks again.

>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/6/09, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hey Cal I would guess this has already occurred to you but maybe you

>> should
>> > do the surgery first in case you have to take any narcotics for the
>> > pain.
>> > Then you can hit your booster afterwards and hopefully handle any
>> > craving

>> > that might get triggered by the medication.
>> >
>> > BTW I never said so before but thanks for putting your extraction tek
>> > out
>> > there. ?The more the merrier I figure on that front. ?Knowledge is

>> > power.
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > cal que wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Beverly, hello list..
>> >>
>> >> I have experience taking TA ?for opiate addiction, and I can say with

>> >> certainty that it works remarkably. Also, two of my closest friends
>> >> have taken both the TA and the HCL for the same reasons and each of
>> >> them preferred the TA over the ibogaine hcl. It seemed to us that the

>> >> spectrum of other plant alkaloids worked syngersitically to 'get in
>> >> there' where the HCL may have 'left off' this not to say that isolated
>> >> ibogaine doesn't work thus, only a subjective preference of

>> >> materials...I think it is interesting to note that perhaps they could
>> >> be used concomitantly or in separate sessions, each using it's unique
>> >> and powerful methods to cleanse and heal in different ways. This would

>> >> be a good notion to explore in future studies. I myself have not been
>> >> too well physically lately and have some nasty oral surgery to look
>> >> forward to, it sucks because I have made arrangements to take TA iboga

>> >> in the near future to cement and 'recapture' some of the healing that
>> >> I experienced months ago in my initial session...I am looking to put
>> >> 'the wind back in my sails' so to speak, but I may have to put off the

>> >> surgery or the session, I'm not sure which just yet..thanks to all for
>> >> being here, this list is a remarkable resource, blessings...K
>> >> On 9/5/09, Beverly Jackson <izmudd at gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> That does help.
>> >>> :)
>> >>> Thank you all.
>> >>> Anybody else have experiences with TA and opiates?

>> >>> Suboxone and TA? H and TA?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Helpful Hopeful
>> >>> <helpful_hopeful at yahoo.com>wrote:

>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I took the extract, given by Sara Glatt, back in 2004, and have been
>> >>>> clean
>> >>>> of opiates since. ?I haven't tried the HCl, and I don't plan on it.

>> ?I'd
>> >>>> like to use iboga again, but would rather stick to the extract
>> >>>> because
>> I
>> >>>> believe the mixture of alkaloids from the plant give more of the

>> >>>> "spirit"
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> the natural plant, rather than stripping down the alkaloids to one
>> >>>> single
>> >>>> active. ?Many plants that man does this to, makes the plant much more

>> >>>> harmful and addictive (although I am sure this is not the case with
>> >>>> iboga),
>> >>>> and I believe when the plants are used naturally one can often get

>> more
>> >>>> benefit. ?I know with peyote and other psychoactive cacti, by
>> extracting
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> mescaline, but not taking the rest of the cacti alkaloids, it

>> definitely
>> >>>> takes away from the powerfulness and healing (somewhat) from the
>> >>>> cacti
>> >>>> experience, so whenever I have a choice of experiencing the full

>> >>>> range
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> alkaloids, I would tend to lean towards that method. ?For those with
>> >>>> other
>> >>>> health problems, where the extract may seem like a rougher ride, or

>> more
>> >>>> difficult experience, perhaps the HCl should be used, but I have
>> >>>> never
>> >>>> been
>> >>>> one to shy away from a powerful (sometimes difficult) psychedelic

>> >>>> experience. ?Hope this helps!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-

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>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 18:04:32 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:04:32 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun rights
In-Reply-To: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>
References: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>
Message-ID: <0D4CBADD-CFC7-430B-A149-D40EA92E0146@gmail.com>

If you ban hand guns, only the hardest of ass holes that "don't care"  
about stuff like "dying", going to "prison", who get killed, and how,  
and for what.

You see the guns laws are the same as the drug laws.. They both the  
same, two in one.

I myself do not own a hand gun, but I use to.. I don't love having  
hand guns around me 24/7
Not once a got sick.. But I did the responcible thing and got rid of  
them, which i was ill

But if you "ban" hand guns, poeple that need to protect them self,  
well they won't be able to do that.

It will become like MX.. They bans all guns!! And look what great help  
that did!!
Highest redrum rate ever!!!!!

Just something to think about before talk of "banning" more of are  
"bill of rights"
Some our for fathers bleed out on the battle feild for!!
They kind thought we needed them!!
Just in case the gov. Got out of hand and we had to take up arms over  
the stupid ass gov..

J



On Sep 9, 2009, at 3:14 PM, "sv" <shilohver at shaw.ca> wrote:

> well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would  
> certainly encourage outlawing handguns. Your situation with the  
> raccoon i found hilarious. And if people did say what you reported  
> then i can only say that they've never lived outside of the city. My  
> father in law shot 13 bears the fisrt year he moved to his little  
> house (which is definately rural...nearest neighbor several miles).  
> the bears were all shot near the house. he has cat food on the porch  
> and i think they were going for that.
> anyway, since the "save the bears" movement, the bear population up  
> here has skyrocketed. My husband refuses to "tent" it unless he has  
> a repeater shotgun in the tent with us. Just this year, a dump bear,  
> attacked a small child (camping situation) and killed it. the mother  
> ran to defend her child and the bear killed her instantly. An  
> "american" happened to witness all this and he shot the bear dead  
> with his rifle. The autopsy guys said that the bear was the  
> skinniest bear they had ever seen. He was damn hungry. (and they had  
> just closed that particualt dump site that year). He probably didn't  
> know how to forage on his own.
>
> shiloh
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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From ibogamail at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 18:12:42 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:12:42 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun rights
In-Reply-To: <9868fdb30909091357u60cafdbfueab3c54d58ed6440@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>
	<9868fdb30909091357u60cafdbfueab3c54d58ed6440@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA8285A.6060804@gmail.com>

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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Wed Sep  9 18:41:15 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:41:15 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] With its 2 founders serving time,
 church of pot is devastated
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP608197A1942D49B2F324C8EBE90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP608197A1942D49B2F324C8EBE90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA82F0B.9000200@mtciep.com>

Unfortunate to hear this DC.

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





DC from AZ wrote:
>
>
>     With its 2 founders serving time, church of pot is devastated
>
> By Stephanie Innes
> /ARIZONA DAILY STAR /
> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 09.09.2009
> The two Southeastern Arizona founders of a church that deifies 
> marijuana are both serving time in federal prison for illegal drug 
> possession.
> Danuel and Mary Quaintance, both in their 50s, have been 
> unconstitutionally locked up for practicing their faith, said Daniel 
> Jeffrey, an elder with the Church of Cognizance.
> The church operates under the motto: "With good thoughts, good words 
> and good deeds, we honor marijuana: as the teacher, the provider, the 
> protector."
> A federal judge in New Mexico sent the Quaintances to prison earlier 
> this year after they pleaded guilty to two criminal counts related to 
> a 2006 federal arrest ? one count of conspiracy with intent to 
> distribute 200 pounds or more of a mixture or substance containing a 
> detectable amount of marijuana; and one count of possession with the 
> intent to distribute 100 pounds or more of a substance containing a 
> detectable amount of marijuana; as well as aiding and abetting.
> Danuel Quaintance, a 57-year-old Vietnam veteran and retired welder, 
> is serving a five-year sentence at a facility at the Federal 
> Correctional Institute in Terminal Island, Calif., near Long Beach. 
> Mary Quaintance, 54, is serving two years at the Victorville Federal 
> Correctional Complex in Adelanto, Calif.
> The Quaintances' home base is a 4-acre property in Pima, Ariz., which 
> is about 90 miles northeast of Tucson. Their children and 
> grandchildren still live on their property, Jeffrey said.
> "Dan and Mary are the heads of their family, and it's been 
> heartbreaking for everyone," Jeffrey said. "They are two of the nicest 
> people, with no criminal element whatsoever. They never profiteered 
> from the herb."
> The pair had attempted to have the charges against them dismissed on 
> the grounds that marijuana is part of their religion.
> The U.S. Constitution contains no legally recognizable definition of 
> religion, but courts still can apply a test of sincerity.
> The couple thought a 2006 U.S. Supreme Court decision on another 
> religious group's use of hallucinogenic tea would spare them. In that 
> case, the nation's highest court ruled unanimously that a small 
> religious group based in Santa Fe that combines Christianity and 
> American Indian practices could use hallucinogenic tea in its 
> ceremonies. The tea, called hoasca, contains dimethyltryptamine, or 
> DMT, known for its hallucinogenic properties.
> A variety of groups representing millions of members filed briefs 
> supporting O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal, or UDV, 
> and its use of hoasca ? among them the Arizona Civil Liberties Union, 
> the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the National Association of 
> Evangelicals and the Union for Reform Judaism. Some supporters likened 
> banning the tea to a federal ban on sacramental wine.
> But federal prosecutors said hoasca case did not apply to the 
> Quaintances. Rather, they argued that religious freedom does not 
> exempt the use of illegal drugs.
> A U.S. District Court agreed with the prosecution, and the Quaintances 
> said that's why they pleaded guilty ? without the religion defense, 
> they knew they'd be convicted at trial.
> Still, the Quaintances expect an eventual reprieve. Danuel Quaintance 
> has said he believes the case will one day wind up before the Supreme 
> Court.
> There's no evidence the couple ever grew their leafy, green sacrament. 
> Rather, they said they relied on donations of it, which they picked up 
> from church "couriers." They said that's what they were about to do 
> when they were arrested in Lordsburg, N.M.
> The pair has said they founded their Church of Cognizance in Pima in 
> 1991. During an interview with the Arizona Daily Star in 2006, Danuel 
> said the church had between 40 and 50 members in Arizona, and numerous 
> others scattered throughout the country.
> "Marijuana is the averter of death," he said at the time. "The energy 
> and spirit that is in marijuana is God. You consume the plant, and you 
> consume God. You are sacrificing your body to the deity."
> Jeffrey said the couple's imprisonment has been crushing to both the 
> church and the integrity of the First Amendment.
> "Dan and Mary made a tragic mistake," Jeffrey said. "They believed 
> there was freedom of religion in the United States."
> /Contact reporter Stephanie Innes at 573-4134 or sinnes at azstarnet.com 
> Follow Stephanie Innes on Twitter at twitter.com/stephanieinnes /
> any legal or rich folks out there that can help these poor people ?
> the religion defence applies to iboga too, I would bet.
> c'mon ACLU, Norml, who ever ?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Donzo offline
> >> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> check this internet radio station every thursday night for great 
> global
> >> music:
> >> http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kxci/ppr/index.shtml
> >>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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>   

From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 18:42:23 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:42:23 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun rights
In-Reply-To: <4AA8285A.6060804@gmail.com>
References: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>
	<9868fdb30909091357u60cafdbfueab3c54d58ed6440@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA8285A.6060804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30909091542s4288159aqf38e292e5016450e@mail.gmail.com>

i have a rule, i dont own a cellphone, pda or anything that allows people to
find me when im not home....



On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

> You could carry a blackberry.
>
> junkboy wrote:
>
>   SV,
> you said
> "well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would certainly
> encourage outlawing handguns"
> are you saying you want handguns outlawed????
> that sounds plain crazy, then what would i carry on my hip?? a shotgun?? i
> think not...
> lol
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:14 PM, sv <shilohver at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>  well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would certainly
>> encourage outlawing handguns. Your situation with the raccoon i found
>> hilarious. And if people did say what you reported then i can only say that
>> they've never lived outside of the city. My father in law shot 13 bears the
>> fisrt year he moved to his little house (which is definately rural...nearest
>> neighbor several miles). the bears were all shot near the house. he has cat
>> food on the porch and i think they were going for that.
>> anyway, since the "save the bears" movement, the bear population up here
>> has skyrocketed. My husband refuses to "tent" it unless he has a repeater
>> shotgun in the tent with us. Just this year, a dump bear, attacked a small
>> child (camping situation) and killed it. the mother ran to defend her child
>> and the bear killed her instantly. An "american" happened to witness all
>> this and he shot the bear dead with his rifle. The autopsy guys said that
>> the bear was the skinniest bear they had ever seen. He was damn hungry. (and
>> they had just closed that particualt dump site that year). He probably
>> didn't know how to forage on his own.
>>
>> shiloh
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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>>
> ------------------------------
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Wed Sep  9 18:43:19 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:43:19 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun rights
In-Reply-To: <4AA8285A.6060804@gmail.com>
References: <DCE532AE9B8F4C67B095A28F0A117ED3@ShilohPC>	<9868fdb30909091357u60cafdbfueab3c54d58ed6440@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA8285A.6060804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA82F87.4090405@mtciep.com>

:o)  Nice one Matt!

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Matt S wrote:
> You could carry a blackberry.
>
> junkboy wrote:
>> SV,
>> you said
>> "well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would 
>> certainly encourage outlawing handguns"
>> are you saying you want handguns outlawed????
>> that sounds plain crazy, then what would i carry on my hip?? a 
>> shotgun?? i think not...
>> lol
>>
>>
>>  
>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:14 PM, sv <shilohver at shaw.ca 
>> <mailto:shilohver at shaw.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>     well Randy i am a strong advocate of gun legislation and would
>>     certainly encourage outlawing handguns. Your situation with the
>>     raccoon i found hilarious. And if people did say what you
>>     reported then i can only say that they've never lived outside of
>>     the city. My father in law shot 13 bears the fisrt year he moved
>>     to his little house (which is definately rural...nearest neighbor
>>     several miles). the bears were all shot near the house. he has
>>     cat food on the porch and i think they were going for that.
>>     anyway, since the "save the bears" movement, the bear population
>>     up here has skyrocketed. My husband refuses to "tent" it unless
>>     he has a repeater shotgun in the tent with us. Just this year, a
>>     dump bear, attacked a small child (camping situation) and killed
>>     it. the mother ran to defend her child and the bear killed her
>>     instantly. An "american" happened to witness all this and he shot
>>     the bear dead with his rifle. The autopsy guys said that the bear
>>     was the skinniest bear they had ever seen. He was damn hungry.
>>     (and they had just closed that particualt dump site that year).
>>     He probably didn't know how to forage on his own.
>>      
>>     shiloh
>>
>>
>>      -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>     (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>      -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Wed Sep  9 18:44:39 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:44:39 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Come to the party in Bisbee ! Bisbee Blues Fest
 9-19-2009 11am-9pm
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP962292992F91D564B98B53EBE90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP962292992F91D564B98B53EBE90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AA82FD7.30407@mtciep.com>

Man, that sounds like a cool event.  I'm only about 4 hours from here 
DC.  Great little town!

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





DC from AZ wrote:
> see: http://www.bisbeebluesfest.com/
>  
> Tommy Castro Band
> Pinetop Perkins
> more
>  
> c'mon down and party at the Warren ball field in Bisbee, AZ
>  
> Sept 19, 2009, 11am - 9pm
>  
> for more info: http://www.kbrpradio.com/Stream.aspx
>  
> see the famous unique home crafted huge bong (confiscated) exhibit at 
> Bisbee PD too.
>  
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Donzo offline
> >> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> check this internet radio station every thursday night for great 
> global
> >> music:
> >> http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kxci/ppr/index.shtml
> >>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>   

From edwardw at mtciep.com  Wed Sep  9 18:38:32 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:38:32 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] testimonial update!!!
In-Reply-To: <103643.14203.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <103643.14203.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA82E68.30309@mtciep.com>

Great to hear Michael, I really was wondering how you were doing since 
your last Ibo treatment.  I know the 12 steps can be helpful and 
beneficial for some, which I've seen for myself as well in the past in 
regards to alcohol issues.  Whether you fully agree or not with the 
process of the 12 steps, the meetings can lend itself to positive change 
and support.  I understand the drinking problem pretty deeply, since 
I've been struggling with this one for about 8 years now.  I have yet to 
go though an Ibo treatment, but certainly will when the time is right.  
Thanks for our encouragement!

Peace,

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Jim Hadey wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I'm glad for ya Buddy.  Six months is a long time in a way.
> The best part is not having the cravings.  When I fight
> the cravings the cravings always win.  Sometimes I
> wanted to kick and would tell myself no, not today and
> then five minutes later I would give in.    Watch out when
> you start getting your cravings.
>
> Best to ya Mike,
>
>   - JIM
>
> --- On *Wed, 9/9/09, michael langshaw /<mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com>
>     Subject: [Ibogaine] testimonial update!!!
>     To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>     Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 2:45 PM
>
>     Hello All
>     Just a quick testimonial update. I guess you could say that my
>     treatment was a success. I did my Ibogaine back on 2/28/09 and
>     have been opiate and cocaine free since. Ironically the great
>     miracle of this drug is this. Though I was an opiate addict my
>     mind was obsessed on smoking and shooting cocaine to the extent
>     that I cant even explain. Everything and anything would send me
>     into this euphoric recall of that initial rush. I'm not saying I
>     gave into it overtime, for the most part I rarely did, but the
>     thought of it was very frequent and very vivid and strong enough
>     to make my stomach flip. Since my treatment the obsession has been
>     removed. Its very strange. I cant even try to induce this
>     "euphoric recall". Its almost like the memory has been erased.
>     Unfortunately I am an alcoholic as well and did not stop drinking
>     until recently. The only way I know how to keep this in check is
>     The 12 steps. If I could afford another ibo treatment for alcohol
>     and the spiritual benefits of this miraculous drug, I'd do it
>     tomorrow. It is my advise to anyone suffering from addiction,
>     especially opiate addiction to seek this , find it and commit to
>     it. I will always be grateful to the people on this list who
>     guided me and helped find me treatment. YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
>     I haven't had a comp for a while and still wont. Just wanted to
>     give an update and say hello to my IBOBUDDIES.
>     Lots of love to all and may we all get what we need,
>     Mike
>
>
>
>     -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
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>
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From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 19:22:18 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:22:18 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <725c35de0909091622s3a9c1a9at53a00c40e3cb7ccc@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings friends...

Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?  I'll be taking
the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
me where I am!
I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
 while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
one!

But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~

 {Hi cal que,

I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.  I
have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
for 30 days.

BTW, what is an appliance??  Never heard of it, but I just may
have to go that route.  Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
canal.  And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
means you need a bridge or partial.  Or then have implants
I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.  The
bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.

Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.  A dry
socket REALLY hurts.  I had to back and have them give
me a shot and put some medication in the gum.  The one
and only time.

Wishing you the best,

  - JIM}

...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
pun) that word...
So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
really really do! Bless you guys! ~K

From halyna at isp01.net  Wed Sep  9 20:44:31 2009
From: halyna at isp01.net (Halyna)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:44:31 -1000
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
References: <725c35de0909091622s3a9c1a9at53a00c40e3cb7ccc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <684B85507B65445CA012A9FCBA419014@D8TJ74B1>

Hope this is encouraging...
I had to get dentures, top and bottom at 42; earlier habits etc precluded 
this and being a diabetic for so long, the last thing I needed was to stop 
being able to eat a certain array of foods.
After the extraction, it took a good 6 weeks to get beyond the surgery and 
down the "new teeth" road. Within days, I got fitted with the dentures. Heed 
these words for they are critical to your success: keep those dentures in 
your mouth at ALL times!!!(remove for a daily 5' cleaning only) No, you will 
not choke on them. Initially, after the surgery and once you have those 
dentures, rinsing your mouth often is critical for the healing and fit, even 
just water or a skoosh of baking soda in that water is good too.
I went to visit my Mother, 12 years after I got the dentures: I finally had 
to tell her about them cause I'm from background that believe one must die 
with their own teeth: she accepted it anyway.
Cest la Vie! Hang in there Baby! You CAN do it!
Just one of the many little ironies of Life

Personally, I would wait on the Ibo till I could savor it.
Halyna
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cal que" <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:22 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)


> Greetings friends...
>
> Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
> I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
> that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
> with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
> until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?  I'll be taking
> the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
> put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
> months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
> prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
> having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
> I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
> this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
> me where I am!
> I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
> getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
> remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
> terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
> looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
> the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
> a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
> with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
> I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
> no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
> off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
> it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
> put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
> ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
> one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
> while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
> Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
> thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
> The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
> that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
> since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
> probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
> insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
> reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
> that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
> the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
> supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
> for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
> one!
>
> But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~
>
> {Hi cal que,
>
> I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
> done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.  I
> have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
> for 30 days.
>
> BTW, what is an appliance??  Never heard of it, but I just may
> have to go that route.  Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
> times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
> which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
> canal.  And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
> means you need a bridge or partial.  Or then have implants
> I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.  The
> bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.
>
> Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.  A dry
> socket REALLY hurts.  I had to back and have them give
> me a shot and put some medication in the gum.  The one
> and only time.
>
> Wishing you the best,
>
>  - JIM}
>
> ...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
> that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
> lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
> done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
> thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
> and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
> before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
> for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
> pun) that word...
> So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
> de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
> spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
> none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
> acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
> knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
> lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
> hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
> lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
> this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
> be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
> really really do! Bless you guys! ~K
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> 



From krinklyfig at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 21:52:14 2009
From: krinklyfig at gmail.com (Joshua Tinnin)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:52:14 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <730025890909091852u30ebe2fby62d8bbd9ec8df53a@mail.gmail.com>

It's a fake.

This is incredibly ignorant. We have real problems to deal with, and this is
a distraction.

- jt

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM, DC from AZ <dcollier9 at q.com> wrote:

>
>  wow
>
> see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US status
> thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in US later would
> also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>
> in search of "all" truth
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
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From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 01:17:28 2009
From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:17:28 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <730025890909091852u30ebe2fby62d8bbd9ec8df53a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
	<730025890909091852u30ebe2fby62d8bbd9ec8df53a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f5488f0909092217t7ba8ea5of77b3e457db76e2e@mail.gmail.com>

Umm ain't that it.  Thank ya Josh

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's a fake.
>
> This is incredibly ignorant. We have real problems to deal with, and this
> is a distraction.
>
> - jt
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM, DC from AZ <dcollier9 at q.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>  wow
>>
>> see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US status
>> thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in US later would
>> also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>>
>> in search of "all" truth
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>


-- 
~~_/) ~~
~~~~~~~
http://www.maps.org
?|Please consider the environment before printing.
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From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 02:10:10 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 23:10:10 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
	is proof
In-Reply-To: <1f5488f0909092217t7ba8ea5of77b3e457db76e2e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>
	<730025890909091852u30ebe2fby62d8bbd9ec8df53a@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f5488f0909092217t7ba8ea5of77b3e457db76e2e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0909092310h6020de78la629e85c808fc01b@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder if iboga works for addictions to distraction.. if so it might just
save the human race! (said jokingly yet deadly serious like).  We might
actually make it all the way to consensus fallowed by resolution before
loosing focus and chasing another $hiney pipe dream!

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Brad Hays <bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>wrote:

> Umm ain't that it.  Thank ya Josh
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> It's a fake.
>>
>> This is incredibly ignorant. We have real problems to deal with, and this
>> is a distraction.
>>
>> - jt
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM, DC from AZ <dcollier9 at q.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  wow
>>>
>>> see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got him US status
>>> thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his passport to college in US later would
>>> also prove his British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>>>
>>> in search of "all" truth
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ~~_/) ~~
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.maps.org
> ?|Please consider the environment before printing.
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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>
>
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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Thu Sep 10 10:37:27 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:37:27 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Obama's Kenyan birth certificate with footprint
 is proof
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0909092310h6020de78la629e85c808fc01b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6554FBB661B3A9F264E44DEBEA0@phx.gbl>	<730025890909091852u30ebe2fby62d8bbd9ec8df53a@mail.gmail.com>	<1f5488f0909092217t7ba8ea5of77b3e457db76e2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0909092310h6020de78la629e85c808fc01b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA90F27.7070709@mtciep.com>

Well said again James! :o)

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





James Forristal wrote:
> I wonder if iboga works for addictions to distraction.. if so it might 
> just save the human race! (said jokingly yet deadly serious like).  We 
> might actually make it all the way to consensus fallowed by resolution 
> before loosing focus and chasing another $hiney pipe dream!   
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Brad Hays <bradleyheathhays at gmail.com 
> <mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Umm ain't that it.  Thank ya Josh
>
>
>     On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Joshua Tinnin
>     <krinklyfig at gmail.com <mailto:krinklyfig at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         It's a fake.
>
>         This is incredibly ignorant. We have real problems to deal
>         with, and this is a distraction.
>
>         - jt
>
>         On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM, DC from AZ <dcollier9 at q.com
>         <mailto:dcollier9 at q.com>> wrote:
>
>              
>              wow
>              
>             see attached screenshots from above link. even if they got
>             him US status thru his grandma in Hawaii later, his
>             passport to college in US later would also prove his
>             British/Kenya/Indonesian status.
>              
>             in search of "all" truth
>
>
>              -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>             (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::
>              [%][)
>              -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>          -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>         (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>          -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     ~~_/) ~~
>     ~~~~~~~
>     http://www.maps.org
>     ?|Please consider the environment before printing.
>
>
>
>      -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>     (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>      -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>   

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 13:35:30 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:35:30 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <725c35de0909091622s3a9c1a9at53a00c40e3cb7ccc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <725c35de0909091622s3a9c1a9at53a00c40e3cb7ccc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E2C566A7-5439-404C-83BD-12241E4AE868@gmail.com>

Man, I want everybody to be able to be as frank as possible.

Weather poeple are fighting to things most wouldn't like to talk about..

I think that what make the list such a speical place to be.

We on here are not of this earth, we are different then the rest of  
the world.

We are the type of poeple that get stared at in pubic..

We on here, are the poeple that get a 2nd look, "like WTF is up with  
that guy..

But with a kind of desire to know more about us... And so I kind of am  
Afraid to ask also..

Nobody will ever get be littled from me on here or in real life..
I do not be little poeple, I have been labeled so many things by the  
stupid ass medical system, I'm freaken nuts from it all..

So I try very hard not to do it to other as much as I can..

I could loss my looks in a heart beat..

I was driving my car the other day, and
I was thinking I might have a oil leak, and my last car(a old BMW)  
burned up
While I WAS IN IT!!
I got out in time, but I was driving my new piece of older car, that I  
had problems With.

And I'm worried it could happen again, but inside the cock pit!! This  
time!!!

And was like, Id be fucked!!
Might turn me into a crispy!!!! Cream!!

So we all need to know, are looks can go at anytime.

What truely matters is what on the inside!!

In fact, the prettyer, as much as it is nice on the eyes to me...
The more Im afriad of them!!!!

I always been this way slightly, but now, I'm 10000 times more this  
way!!

I'm extremely cautious around overly so called "beaultful people"
I found those poeple tend to be the worst on the inside!!!!!
Sad but true!!!!
Not across the board, but from what I've seen, pretty much true!!!

Yea, I've had my fare share of dental work!!!
I'm extremely luck I have all my teeth!!
I've kept up Witt my dental work, but I had luck that many poeple  
didn't have.

Insurance through my step dad..
I was in my 3rd year of college when I got smoked the fuck out!! Like  
a car bomb hit me!!!  My 3rd year in college, and was able to stay on  
my step dads insurance as longe as I stay "un married"

Because I got disabled while I was on my step dad insurance, and was  
in school.

Everything worked out pretty good for me there..
I'm am quite lucky in many ways.

But it ruined my life in many ways get sick so young.
I most likely will never marry, I had too many issues.

I just want to be able to take care of my self, and tell everybody  
else I don't need shit from anybody!!!
I Just don't want to be be depended on anybody!!!!!!!

That's all the fuck I want in this stupid ass life!!!!
At this point, and stage in the dumb ass game, that's all the fuck I  
want!!!!


I'm sorry to hear you going to lose your grill...
They do have implants, maybe could get one done, one at a time..
I know they cost a lot..

My ass hole father make them..

He wouldn't even make them for me, if I lost my "grill"

Bad blood between my and my piece of worthless shit for a dad..

But fuck it, the show must go on!!!
I must carry on..

So be it..

The only thing I can do is try to never become like that ass hole!!!
That's all I can do...

What else can I do??

I was told by my sis, she a dental hygenist, that my front teeth have  
small roots hold them in to my upper bone.

She told me don't get hit in the mouth.,
So I could lose my front teeth..
Not a fun thing thing to deal with..

Man, I wish you the best from my heart.
It's so sad health care as to be so damm expensive..
I wish there was a way in the great land of the free?? That they could  
make it so everybody had health care...

I really like to see that.. But I'd also like to see some "balance" to  
it..
And for poeple that work to still keep thier health insurance..
That way the would work like a checks and balance and keep these ass  
hold greedy insurance comp legit!!!
And "fare"

That just what I'd like to see..

I just think basic health care, including dental should be something  
everybody could get regardless of income..

It's just not fare that a person who was born poor doesn't get the  
same health care as a person born rich..

I know that the world is not fare.. But why can't we all try to make  
it more fare??
Why??

I guess going through my illness change me....
And yes, I still have things about me that of this world that I don't  
love that are part of me..

But I try to think about the poeple that don't have much of a chance  
in life..
I at least think of others more, and not just myself..

But I also don't expect others to think like me either.. Because I  
know how the world is..

I don't know, it be nice to see a level playing field here in the US..

And that one day it won't matter If you come from money or not..
It's just sad it has to be that wayzz

I guess going through the physical truma change me a lot a guess.,

Maybe one day I be able to give back in some positive way???
It be nice to be a doctor and give care to people that don't have a  
chance..
Yes, it's not the most self centered work to do, and it's not the  
funnest either..
But their a need for it, and most do not have the heart to do it..

It's real easy to sit back and judge when you don't have a fucking  
clue what that persons been through...


J













On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:22 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings friends...
>
> Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
> I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
> that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
> with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
> until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?  I'll be taking
> the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
> put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
> months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
> prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
> having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
> I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
> this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
> me where I am!
> I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
> getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
> remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
> terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
> looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
> the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
> a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
> with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
> I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
> no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
> off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
> it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
> put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
> ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
> one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
> while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
> Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
> thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
> The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
> that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
> since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
> probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
> insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
> reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
> that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
> the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
> supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
> for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
> one!
>
> But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~
>
> {Hi cal que,
>
> I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
> done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.  I
> have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
> for 30 days.
>
> BTW, what is an appliance??  Never heard of it, but I just may
> have to go that route.  Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
> times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
> which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
> canal.  And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
> means you need a bridge or partial.  Or then have implants
> I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.  The
> bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.
>
> Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.  A dry
> socket REALLY hurts.  I had to back and have them give
> me a shot and put some medication in the gum.  The one
> and only time.
>
> Wishing you the best,
>
>  - JIM}
>
> ...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
> that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
> lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
> done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
> thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
> and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
> before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
> for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
> pun) that word...
> So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
> de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
> spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
> none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
> acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
> knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
> lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
> hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
> lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
> this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
> be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
> really really do! Bless you guys! ~K
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 15:18:57 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:18:57 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <E2C566A7-5439-404C-83BD-12241E4AE868@gmail.com>
References: <725c35de0909091622s3a9c1a9at53a00c40e3cb7ccc@mail.gmail.com>
	<E2C566A7-5439-404C-83BD-12241E4AE868@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725c35de0909101218m6d2f6ec8u60ef26978830eace@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Jeremy and all who've contacted me and responded to this
posting, I've been shown lots of love and support and it helps
tremendously...call me chicken but this thing I've been staring at for
a while and now it's 'ON'...so this support comes in real nicely. I
fucking love you people...K

On 9/10/09, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Man, I want everybody to be able to be as frank as possible.
>
> Weather poeple are fighting to things most wouldn't like to talk about..
>
> I think that what make the list such a speical place to be.
>
> We on here are not of this earth, we are different then the rest of
> the world.
>
> We are the type of poeple that get stared at in pubic..
>
> We on here, are the poeple that get a 2nd look, "like WTF is up with
> that guy..
>
> But with a kind of desire to know more about us... And so I kind of am
> Afraid to ask also..
>
> Nobody will ever get be littled from me on here or in real life..
> I do not be little poeple, I have been labeled so many things by the
> stupid ass medical system, I'm freaken nuts from it all..
>
> So I try very hard not to do it to other as much as I can..
>
> I could loss my looks in a heart beat..
>
> I was driving my car the other day, and
> I was thinking I might have a oil leak, and my last car(a old BMW)
> burned up
> While I WAS IN IT!!
> I got out in time, but I was driving my new piece of older car, that I
> had problems With.
>
> And I'm worried it could happen again, but inside the cock pit!! This
> time!!!
>
> And was like, Id be fucked!!
> Might turn me into a crispy!!!! Cream!!
>
> So we all need to know, are looks can go at anytime.
>
> What truely matters is what on the inside!!
>
> In fact, the prettyer, as much as it is nice on the eyes to me...
> The more Im afriad of them!!!!
>
> I always been this way slightly, but now, I'm 10000 times more this
> way!!
>
> I'm extremely cautious around overly so called "beaultful people"
> I found those poeple tend to be the worst on the inside!!!!!
> Sad but true!!!!
> Not across the board, but from what I've seen, pretty much true!!!
>
> Yea, I've had my fare share of dental work!!!
> I'm extremely luck I have all my teeth!!
> I've kept up Witt my dental work, but I had luck that many poeple
> didn't have.
>
> Insurance through my step dad..
> I was in my 3rd year of college when I got smoked the fuck out!! Like
> a car bomb hit me!!!  My 3rd year in college, and was able to stay on
> my step dads insurance as longe as I stay "un married"
>
> Because I got disabled while I was on my step dad insurance, and was
> in school.
>
> Everything worked out pretty good for me there..
> I'm am quite lucky in many ways.
>
> But it ruined my life in many ways get sick so young.
> I most likely will never marry, I had too many issues.
>
> I just want to be able to take care of my self, and tell everybody
> else I don't need shit from anybody!!!
> I Just don't want to be be depended on anybody!!!!!!!
>
> That's all the fuck I want in this stupid ass life!!!!
> At this point, and stage in the dumb ass game, that's all the fuck I
> want!!!!
>
>
> I'm sorry to hear you going to lose your grill...
> They do have implants, maybe could get one done, one at a time..
> I know they cost a lot..
>
> My ass hole father make them..
>
> He wouldn't even make them for me, if I lost my "grill"
>
> Bad blood between my and my piece of worthless shit for a dad..
>
> But fuck it, the show must go on!!!
> I must carry on..
>
> So be it..
>
> The only thing I can do is try to never become like that ass hole!!!
> That's all I can do...
>
> What else can I do??
>
> I was told by my sis, she a dental hygenist, that my front teeth have
> small roots hold them in to my upper bone.
>
> She told me don't get hit in the mouth.,
> So I could lose my front teeth..
> Not a fun thing thing to deal with..
>
> Man, I wish you the best from my heart.
> It's so sad health care as to be so damm expensive..
> I wish there was a way in the great land of the free?? That they could
> make it so everybody had health care...
>
> I really like to see that.. But I'd also like to see some "balance" to
> it..
> And for poeple that work to still keep thier health insurance..
> That way the would work like a checks and balance and keep these ass
> hold greedy insurance comp legit!!!
> And "fare"
>
> That just what I'd like to see..
>
> I just think basic health care, including dental should be something
> everybody could get regardless of income..
>
> It's just not fare that a person who was born poor doesn't get the
> same health care as a person born rich..
>
> I know that the world is not fare.. But why can't we all try to make
> it more fare??
> Why??
>
> I guess going through my illness change me....
> And yes, I still have things about me that of this world that I don't
> love that are part of me..
>
> But I try to think about the poeple that don't have much of a chance
> in life..
> I at least think of others more, and not just myself..
>
> But I also don't expect others to think like me either.. Because I
> know how the world is..
>
> I don't know, it be nice to see a level playing field here in the US..
>
> And that one day it won't matter If you come from money or not..
> It's just sad it has to be that wayzz
>
> I guess going through the physical truma change me a lot a guess.,
>
> Maybe one day I be able to give back in some positive way???
> It be nice to be a doctor and give care to people that don't have a
> chance..
> Yes, it's not the most self centered work to do, and it's not the
> funnest either..
> But their a need for it, and most do not have the heart to do it..
>
> It's real easy to sit back and judge when you don't have a fucking
> clue what that persons been through...
>
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:22 PM, cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings friends...
>>
>> Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
>> I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
>> that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
>> with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
>> until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?  I'll be taking
>> the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
>> put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
>> months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
>> prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
>> having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
>> I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
>> this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
>> me where I am!
>> I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
>> getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
>> remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
>> terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
>> looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
>> the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
>> a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
>> with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
>> I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
>> no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
>> off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
>> it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
>> put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
>> ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
>> one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
>> while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
>> Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
>> thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
>> The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
>> that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
>> since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
>> probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
>> insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
>> reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
>> that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
>> the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
>> supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
>> for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
>> one!
>>
>> But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~
>>
>> {Hi cal que,
>>
>> I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
>> done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.  I
>> have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
>> for 30 days.
>>
>> BTW, what is an appliance??  Never heard of it, but I just may
>> have to go that route.  Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
>> times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
>> which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
>> canal.  And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
>> means you need a bridge or partial.  Or then have implants
>> I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.  The
>> bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.
>>
>> Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.  A dry
>> socket REALLY hurts.  I had to back and have them give
>> me a shot and put some medication in the gum.  The one
>> and only time.
>>
>> Wishing you the best,
>>
>>  - JIM}
>>
>> ...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
>> that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
>> lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
>> done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
>> thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
>> and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
>> before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
>> for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
>> pun) that word...
>> So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
>> de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
>> spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
>> none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
>> acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
>> knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
>> lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
>> hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
>> lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
>> this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
>> be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
>> really really do! Bless you guys! ~K
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>

From ajb0276 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 07:23:07 2009
From: ajb0276 at yahoo.com (Tony Basile)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 04:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <725c35de0909091622s3a9c1a9at53a00c40e3cb7ccc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <725c35de0909091622s3a9c1a9at53a00c40e3cb7ccc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <210790.12461.qm@web59912.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Greetings,
??? I am new to the comm. and I just wanted to say, its very refreshing to see other like minded people exist in this world. My background, 33 yr old male, About 7 yrs ago had a spiritual exp under the influence of mdma, Without going into to many details my? EYES were opened =) and I caught a glimpse of truth.The exp changed my life. Sadly over the course of time I have regressed again back into my addictive state of mind. I have been battling a horrible opiate habit as well as a terrible nicotine addiction. I have been using opiates for the last couple of years on a daily basis,and quite frankly they are killing me. I have lost 30 pds in the last couple of months. I have since weaned myself down to the lowest dose I have ever been on. 10g of poppys a day:(tea)
I come to this forum as a last resort,for help.I KNOW the potential of healing through psycheldelics I have been trying but have a huge tolerance?I have tried- d.o.i -2c-c 2c-i -and most other phenethylamines but have not been able to replicate my orignal exp.I come to this forum in hopes of finding REAL help and support?for this addiction.If there is any treatment possible please contact,sadly I live in s.c and don t think any exist here.Either way I appreciate this forum and hope for the best for everyone here...



________________________________
From: cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:22:18 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)

Greetings friends...

Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?? I'll be taking
the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
me where I am!
I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
one!

But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~

{Hi cal que,

I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.? I
have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
for 30 days.

BTW, what is an appliance??? Never heard of it, but I just may
have to go that route.? Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
canal.? And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
means you need a bridge or partial.? Or then have implants
I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.? The
bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.

Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.? A dry
socket REALLY hurts.? I had to back and have them give
me a shot and put some medication in the gum.? The one
and only time.

Wishing you the best,

? - JIM}

...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
pun) that word...
So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
really really do! Bless you guys! ~K

? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
(][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-



      
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From kedjutimber at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 08:19:32 2009
From: kedjutimber at gmail.com (Emmanuel Lih)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:19:32 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga
Message-ID: <da33713d0909110519l1c284118y28785262540b76b7@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Sir,
If you are looking for or know any one who needs Iboga root barks, dry
roots, Africana Vocana, Yohimbe etc and other medicinal products from the
Tropical region of Central Africa. I am ready to send samples for lab test
My Email is kedjutimber at gmail.com
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From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 08:39:18 2009
From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:39:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <210790.12461.qm@web59912.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <338511.42810.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Hi Tony,

This is a great place to come to get advice and pick
up some good idea and tips.? What exactly it is that
we can help you with??? We are pro- Ibogaine and
feel that it should be legal.? I take it your interested
in Ibo.? What is it you would like to know??? Do you
want to know if it really works - YES.? Does it always
work -NO.? If a person want to quit bad enough it
can make the difference.? Do you want a quick
overview of what it does - say yes.?? OK, we all
know the pain and misery of withdrawal.? When
you take Ibo it takes the raging flu and turns it
into a cold.? Basically it give you an 80% - 90%
discount on pain and suffering.? The bad thing 
about it is it is EXPENSIVE -? $600 per gram.

A good site to check out is ethnogardens.com.
You can read the history and get pricing info.
However, you must live in Canada for they will
not ship to the U.S.?? Also, there is a place
called erowid .com and they list the experience
of people who tried it.? Or if you ask the forum
if anyone can send in a report (for lack of a 
better word) of how it went I know some will 
tell you want it was like.? That should give you
an idea what you will experience.? All experiences
are different but have certain things in common.

Google ibogaine? and you will see quite a bit
here are some places I found useful.

www.awakeninginthedream.com

They list detox centers, experiences and other
info.? It is a good place to get the overall idea
of what is involved.? As far as the forum goes
you can ask questions and the people will 
answer.? Welcome

Hope I helped,

? - JIM



--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:23 AM

Greetings,
??? I am new to the comm. and I just wanted to say, its very refreshing to see other like minded people exist in this world. My background, 33 yr old male, About 7 yrs ago had a spiritual exp under the influence of mdma, Without going into to many details my? EYES were opened =) and I caught a glimpse of truth.The exp changed my life. Sadly over the course of time I have regressed again back into my addictive state of mind. I have been battling a horrible opiate habit as well as a terrible nicotine addiction. I have been using opiates for the last couple of years on a daily basis,and quite frankly they are killing me. I have lost 30 pds in the last couple of months. I have since weaned myself down to the lowest dose I have ever been on. 10g of poppys a day:(tea)
I come to this forum as a last resort,for help.I KNOW the potential of healing through psycheldelics I have been trying but have a huge tolerance?I have tried- d.o.i -2c-c 2c-i -and most other phenethylamines but have not been able to replicate my orignal exp.I come to this forum in hopes of finding REAL help and support?for this addiction.If there is any treatment possible please contact,sadly I live in s.c and don t think any exist here.Either way I appreciate this forum and hope for the best for everyone here...




From: cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:22:18 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)

Greetings friends...

Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?? I'll be taking
the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but
 find myself recently
prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
me where I am!
I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
no
 healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
reasons I'm having
 some infection and problems happening right now
that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
one!

But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~

{Hi cal que,

I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.? I
have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
for 30 days.

BTW, what is an appliance??? Never heard of it, but I just may
have to go that route.? Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
canal.? And sometimes the tooth could not be
 saved which
means you need a bridge or partial.? Or then have implants
I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.? The
bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.

Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.? A dry
socket REALLY hurts.? I had to back and have them give
me a shot and put some medication in the gum.? The one
and only time.

Wishing you the best,

? - JIM}

...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle
 euphemism
for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
pun) that word...
So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
really really do! Bless you guys! ~K

? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine |
 List Commands ::::::: (]=-
(][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-





      
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From bicuitboy714 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 08:47:44 2009
From: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com (Randy Faulconer)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:47:44 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pair steal 800 lb ATM with $96G inside
In-Reply-To: <29d165a30909110546v4919c02dn328bc6531b97d8f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1116906737.1807071252582807428.JavaMail.tomcat@localhost>
	<29d165a30909110546v4919c02dn328bc6531b97d8f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29d165a30909110547n441fe0eahe99e31e813a4df9a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:40 AM, <biscuitboy714 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>           [image: Philly.com] <http://www.philly.com/>
>>                      Am I the only one that is rooting for the thieves on
>> this???            It reminds me of hitting drug stores in the middle
>> 70's
>>
>
>                     Peace Love and Crow Bars
>                             Randy
>                                BiscuitBoy Blues
>
>
>>
>>              Click the following to access the sent link:         Pair
>> steal 800 lb ATM with $96G inside<http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=1787616043>
>> *                  View the most EMAILED for today from Philly.com         [image:
>> Philly.com] 1. 'Dear Billy' gives world of comic books a good name<http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewTopTenItem&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philly.com%2Fdailynews%2Ffeatures%2F43757917.html&title=%27Dear+Billy%27+gives+world+of+comic+books+a+good+name&articlePartnerID=167701> [image:
>> Philly.com] 2. Ad pledges dog food for each Vick tackle<http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewTopTenItem&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philly.com%2Fphilly%2Fnews%2Fbreaking%2F58097847.html&title=Ad+pledges+dog+food+for+each+Vick+tackle&articlePartnerID=168181> [image:
>> Philly.com] 3. Temple president's plan for the decade<http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewTopTenItem&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philly.com%2Fphilly%2Fnews%2Fhomepage%2F57975072.html&title=Temple+president%27s+plan+for+the+decade&articlePartnerID=168191>
>>         [image: SAVE THIS link]<http://www.savethis.clickability.com/st/saveThisPopupApp?clickMap=saveFromET&partnerID=168181&etMailToID=1787616043> [image:
>> FORWARD THIS link]<http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=forward&etMailToID=1787616043&partnerID=168181>
>>            Get your EMAIL THIS Browser Button and use it to email content
>> from any Web site. Click here<http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=browserButtons>for more information.
>>             *This article can also be accessed if you copy and paste the
>> entire address below into your web browser.
>>
>> http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20090909_Pair_steal_800_lb_ATM_with__96G_inside.html
>>
>>
>
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From ajb0276 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 10:28:31 2009
From: ajb0276 at yahoo.com (Tony Basile)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <338511.42810.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <338511.42810.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <811546.56864.qm@web59907.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>



Thank you Jim,I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I do know of the potential of ibo.I actually knew someone who was treated in florida a couple of years ago,and He swears by it! Yes it was expensive, but if it turns my flu into a cold and gives me even a little insight about my troubled soul,then it s worth it.Once again thank you for your welcome and I look forward to hearing from you in the future:)

?

________________________________
From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:39:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)




Hi Tony,

This is a great place to come to get advice and pick
up some good idea and tips.? What exactly it is that
we can help you with??? We are pro- Ibogaine and
feel that it should be legal.? I take it your interested
in Ibo.? What is it you would like to know??? Do you
want to know if it really works - YES.? Does it always
work -NO.? If a person want to quit bad enough it
can make the difference.? Do you want a quick
overview of what it does - say yes.?? OK, we all
know the pain and misery of withdrawal.? When
you take Ibo it takes the raging flu and turns it
into a cold.? Basically it give you an 80% - 90%
discount on pain and suffering.? The bad thing 
about it is it is EXPENSIVE -? $600 per gram.

A good site to check out is ethnogardens.com.
You can read the history and get pricing info.
However, you must live in Canada for they will
not ship to the U.S.?? Also, there is a place
called erowid .com and they list the experience
of people who tried it.? Or if you ask the forum
if anyone can send in a report (for lack of a 
better word) of how it went I know some will 
tell you want it was like.? That should give you
an idea what you will experience.? All experiences
are different but have certain things in common.

Googleibogaine? and you will see quite a bit
here are some places I found useful.

www.awakeninginthedream.com

They list detox centers, experiences and other
info.? It is a good place to get the overall idea
of what is involved.? As far as the forum goes
you can ask questions and the people will 
answer.? Welcome

Hope I helped,

? - JIM



--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:


>From: Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:23 AM
>
>
>Greetings,
>??? I am new to the comm. and I just wanted to say, its very refreshing to see other like minded people exist in this world. My background, 33 yr old male, About 7 yrs ago had a spiritual exp under the influence of mdma, Without going into to many details my? EYES were opened =) and I caught a glimpse of truth.The exp changed my life. Sadly over the course of time I have regressed again back into my addictive state of mind. I have been battling a horrible opiate habit as well as a terrible nicotine addiction. I have been using opiates for the last couple of years on a daily basis,and quite frankly they are killing me. I have lost 30 pds in the last couple of months. I have since weaned myself down to the lowest dose I have ever been on. 10g of poppys a day:(tea)
>I come to this forum as a last resort,for help.I KNOW the potential of healing through psycheldelics I have been trying but have a huge tolerance?I have tried- d.o.i -2c-c 2c-i -and most other phenethylamines but have not been able to replicate my orignal exp.I come to this forum in hopes of finding REAL help and support?for this addiction.If there is any treatment possible please contact,sadly I live in s.c and don t think any exist here.Either way I appreciate this forum and hope for the best for everyone here...
>
>
>
________________________________
From: cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:22:18 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>
>Greetings friends...
>
>Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
>I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
>that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
>with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
>until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?? I'll be taking
>the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
>put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
>months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
>prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
>having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
>I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
>this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
>me where I am!
>I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
>getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
>remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
>terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
>looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
>the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
>a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
>with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
>I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
>no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
>off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
>it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
>put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
>ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
>one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
>while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
>Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
>thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
>The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
>that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
>since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
>probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
>insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
>reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
>that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
>the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
>supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
>for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
>one!
>
>But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~
>
>{Hi cal que,
>
>I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
>done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.? I
>have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
>for 30 days.
>
>BTW, what is an appliance??? Never heard of it, but I just may
>have to go that route.? Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
>times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
>which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
>canal.? And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
>means you need a bridge or partial.? Or then have implants
>I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.? The
>bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.
>
>Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.? A dry
>socket REALLY hurts.? I had to back and have them give
>me a shot and put some medication in the gum.? The one
>and only time.
>
>Wishing you the best,
>
>? - JIM}
>
>...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
>that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
>lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
>done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
>thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
>and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
>before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
>for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
>pun) that word...
>So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
>de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
>spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
>none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
>acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
>knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
>lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
>hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
>lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
>this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
>be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
>really really do! Bless you guys! ~K
>
>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>(][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>
>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>(][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
> 



      
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From izmudd at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 12:32:44 2009
From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:32:44 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga
In-Reply-To: <da33713d0909110519l1c284118y28785262540b76b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <da33713d0909110519l1c284118y28785262540b76b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68a68f8a0909110932i42f47858lb1f0737045cf6d93@mail.gmail.com>

Makes me wish I had a lab. And lived in a country where it's legal.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Emmanuel Lih <kedjutimber at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sir,
> If you are looking for or know any one who needs Iboga root barks, dry
> roots, Africana Vocana, Yohimbe etc and other medicinal products from the
> Tropical region of Central Africa. I am ready to send samples for lab test
> My Email is kedjutimber at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>


-- 
"Love is the cure,
for your pain will keep giving birth to more pain
until your eyes constantly exhale love
as effortlessly as your body yields it's
scent."
Rumi
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From izmudd at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 12:47:29 2009
From: izmudd at gmail.com (Beverly Jackson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:47:29 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <811546.56864.qm@web59907.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <338511.42810.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<811546.56864.qm@web59907.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68a68f8a0909110947o3d889ec9qa0a0fa4af34d8111@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Tony!

Welcome. A couple things I wish I knew right away:

There is a difference between ibogaine HCl and iboga root bark extract. As
Jim said (hi Jim!), expensive, but per gram, the HCl far more so than the
extract. Thing is, you'll need more g's of extract than HCl for the same
healing experience. There are differences.

Iboga has a mind of it's own.

Stick around, there are some of the wonderful, helpful people here.

That's it! I wish you all the best.

Peace and pork rinds,
Beverly

Cal que, your thread has been hijacked! ;)
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 13:16:02 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:16:02 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <811546.56864.qm@web59907.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <338511.42810.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<811546.56864.qm@web59907.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6C335285-4843-4DF7-A208-495FB7D4AF0F@gmail.com>

Yea, I think the HCL is the way to go..
But it cost a lot.. But it could life changing, so it's worth it..

I thought to myself, what is that worth??
What is the cost of something like that worth?? It's worth a try.. Ive  
done bark and the extract..

But low dose..

You really need a sitter with you, just to help
You not feel all alone..

It nice to have a person to talk to, or just beb
There. It can also be dangerous if not taking in the Right setting..  
And no mixing other drugs with it..

It's just not a good idea to mix anything
With it..

Maybe some benozs to help you calm your self some before leaving  
planet earth and
Blasting off into out space..

"space the final frontier.." "to go where no
Man as gone before. "To explore new worlds.."

But anyway, I heard the HCL Is the best..
But also heard both.. The bark, or the extract will work just as well..

I rather the extract as my 2nd choice..
And the bark 3rd.. But they all can work, if one knows how to take it,  
and knows how much to take.. Ect, ect, ect, ect, ect, ect..

Only a good provider would know this.
I don't..

But I believe ibogaine is like nothing you ever
Tried before.. I thought when I got on here, it's just another
Drug.. It's not..

I don't want to put fear out there.. But it does need to be highly  
respected.. No mixing of a bunch of meds or illegal drugs with this  
stuff.

If you on anti depressents i might want to not
Take then for a day or two before treatment.
But you need to talk with a provider about
That, they know a lot more then I do..

I still know very little, and like I tell my doctor
When he thinks I know more then what I do..
Which I'm greatful he thinks of me that way,
And yea, I know a phone book of medical shit in my heard, and I don't  
give my self near enough credit..

But, I tell him, doc, I know just barely enough
TO NOT DIE!!! That's what I know..

Hey I still know a lot. But, not enough to be
Caling the shots.. And I don't want to be either.
  I say, give that to someone else..
I don't want it, and I don't have a medical
Degree with mal pratice insurance, I dont
Have that, they do..

I don't..

I do a know more then poeple would tend to think. but not quite enough  
to be in the driver
Seat.. And frankly, I dont want to be.. Not

Now I don't know maybe down the way, maybe????

Who knows??
I got a 1 in a million chance at this point??
I like to think I still "may" have a slight chance with My gift for  
medical knowlage??

But its kind of late in the game, and I'm only
EMT. Still my early 30s, but, I got to get something Going in the next  
year!! I maybe if I can get my morphine down to 30mg or less??
Then I think i could work as a EMT, and tell poeple to fuck off!! But  
how much I'm Now

On now, I have a hard time feeling good about it. I dont want to make  
a mistake.. I don't want
To hurt another person..

Not saying I would, but I dont feel extremely great about being on  
120mgs of morphine daly, sometime more. It's less then I use to be  
on., but it's still too much..

I need it to get it down to at or below
60mgs, but that's asking for alot with my pain issues, but it's not  
impossible with ibogaine.

I believe in this wonderful medince. I got a few years to get up and  
going or miss
The train.. But it could still happen??

Yea, stick around.

The only thing is the HCL is hard to get.,(shortages, BS, more BS, and  
then you got iboga the plant the only really grows well in the  
rainforst, and at the rate the rainforst plants are being destoryed,  
I'm mean, who know how long this plant may be alive???

I mean, the rainforest is disapering at rates that by 2020, another  
half will be gone from this earth  "FOREVER" never to be returned
To this earth again!! GONE!!!bBye, bye, see you, later, out, piece,  
late,
"Hope you made hay while the sun shines"

Just something to think about the next tine you get your hands on  
ibogaine... And yes, the cost is nicely up there. But if one truely  
wants a experence of a life
Time, look no further..

I believe in ibogaine. Like most all enthogens,
It is not addictive.. Or habit forming, or it's not
The norm for it to be.

It's such a hardcore experence, no person
Would want to make it a habit..

Plus the cost is a huge factor also.
But even if money was not a thing.
Man, nobody would want to use it just for "fun"

It's not that type of drug. At least it was not for me.

Also
.
It was posted, i forget the spelling of name,
But she took extract, but took it extremely
Slowly over the course of many hours.
And that's a kind of good thing to do, at least
That what I want to try doing next time.

Taking the ibogaine extremely slowly over the
Course of many hours to make
The experence smother..

But to some this is a waste
So to each his own on that one..

Hope that helps

J












On Sep 11, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Thank you Jim,I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I do know  
> of the potential of ibo.I actually knew someone who was treated in  
> florida a couple of years ago,and He swears by it! Yes it was  
> expensive, but if it turns my flu into a cold and gives me even a  
> little insight about my troubled soul,then it s worth it.Once again  
> thank you for your welcome and I look forward to hearing from you in  
> the future:)
>
>
> From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:39:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>
>
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> This is a great place to come to get advice and pick
> up some good idea and tips.  What exactly it is that
> we can help you with??  We are pro- Ibogaine and
> feel that it should be legal.  I take it your interested
> in Ibo.  What is it you would like to know??  Do you
> want to know if it really works - YES.  Does it always
> work -NO.  If a person want to quit bad enough it
> can make the difference.  Do you want a quick
> overview of what it does - say yes.   OK, we all
> know the pain and misery of withdrawal.  When
> you take Ibo it takes the raging flu and turns it
> into a cold.  Basically it give you an 80% - 90%
> discount on pain and suffering.  The bad thing
> about it is it is EXPENSIVE -  $600 per gram.
>
> A good site to check out is ethnogardens.com.
> You can read the history and get pricing info.
> However, you must live in Canada for they will
> not ship to the U.S.   Also, there is a place
> called erowid .com and they list the experience
> of people who tried it.  Or if you ask the forum
> if anyone can send in a report (for lack of a
> better word) of how it went I know some will
> tell you want it was like.  That should give you
> an idea what you will experience.  All experiences
> are different but have certain things in common.
>
> Google ibogaine  and you will see quite a bit
> here are some places I found useful.
>
> www.awakeninginthedream.com
>
> They list detox centers, experiences and other
> info.  It is a good place to get the overall idea
> of what is involved.  As far as the forum goes
> you can ask questions and the people will
> answer.  Welcome
>
> Hope I helped,
>
>   - JIM
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:23 AM
>
> Greetings,
>     I am new to the comm. and I just wanted to say, its very  
> refreshing to see other like minded people exist in this world. My  
> background, 33 yr old male, About 7 yrs ago had a spiritual exp  
> under the influence of mdma, Without going into to many details my   
> EYES were opened =) and I caught a glimpse of truth.The exp changed  
> my life. Sadly over the course of time I have regressed again back  
> into my addictive state of mind. I have been battling a horrible  
> opiate habit as well as a terrible nicotine addiction. I have been  
> using opiates for the last couple of years on a daily basis,and  
> quite frankly they are killing me. I have lost 30 pds in the last  
> couple of months. I have since weaned myself down to the lowest dose  
> I have ever been on. 10g of poppys a day:(tea)
> I come to this forum as a last resort,for help.I KNOW the potential  
> of healing through psycheldelics I have been trying but have a huge  
> tolerance I have tried- d.o.i -2c-c 2c-i -and most other  
> phenethylamines but have not been able to replicate my orignal exp.I  
> come to this forum in hopes of finding REAL help and support for  
> this addiction.If there is any treatment possible please  
> contact,sadly I live in s.c and don t think any exist here.Either  
> way I appreciate this forum and hope for the best for everyone here...
>
> From: cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:22:18 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>
> Greetings friends...
>
> Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
> I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
> that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
> with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
> until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?  I'll be taking
> the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
> put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
> months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
> prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
> having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
> I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
> this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
> me where I am!
> I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
> getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
> remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
> terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
> looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
> the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
> a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
> with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
> I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
> no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
> off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
> it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
> put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
> ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
> one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
> while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
> Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
> thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
> The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
> that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
> since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
> probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
> insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
> reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
> that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
> the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
> supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
> for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
> one!
>
> But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~
>
> {Hi cal que,
>
> I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
> done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.  I
> have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
> for 30 days.
>
> BTW, what is an appliance??  Never heard of it, but I just may
> have to go that route.  Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
> times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
> which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
> canal.  And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
> means you need a bridge or partial.  Or then have implants
> I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.  The
> bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.
>
> Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.  A dry
> socket REALLY hurts.  I had to back and have them give
> me a shot and put some medication in the gum.  The one
> and only time.
>
> Wishing you the best,
>
>   - JIM}
>
> ...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
> that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
> lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
> done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
> thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
> and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
> before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
> for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
> pun) that word...
> So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
> de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
> spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
> none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
> acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
> knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
> lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
> hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
> lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
> this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
> be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
> really really do! Bless you guys! ~K
>
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From ajb0276 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 14:42:41 2009
From: ajb0276 at yahoo.com (Tony Basile)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:42:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <6C335285-4843-4DF7-A208-495FB7D4AF0F@gmail.com>
References: <338511.42810.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<811546.56864.qm@web59907.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<6C335285-4843-4DF7-A208-495FB7D4AF0F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <992113.91164.qm@web59914.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

hey thanks Jim, I appreciate and I totally understand where you are coming from with this guidance.I? am also involved in the psycheldelic comm. and I don t want ANY bad publicity about these truly magical gifts. I am totaly against psyche meds,I think they are far worse than any other drug,in my opinion.Addiction is my problem hands down. I have been researching psycheldelics for 15 years now, and believe they are simply maginifiers of your unconsciouss, But I believe the only way to heal properly is to access these areas ,ie hallucinogens-But for me ,hallucinogens aren t strong enough to break through years of pain, and chronic addiction.?Research and expiernece?has lead me here,

________________________________
?From: Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:16:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)


Yea, I think the HCL is the way to go..
But it cost a lot..?But it could life changing, so it's worth it..

I thought to myself, what is that worth??
What is the cost of something like that worth???It's worth a try..?Ive done bark and the extract..

But low dose..

You really need a sitter with you, just to help?
You not feel all alone..

It nice to have a person to talk to, or just beb
There.?It can also be dangerous if not taking in the Right setting..?And no mixing other drugs with it..

It's just not a good idea to mix anything?
With it..

Maybe some benozs to help you calm your self some before leaving planet earth and
Blasting off into out space..

"space the final frontier.." "to go where no?
Man as gone before. "To explore new worlds.."

But anyway, I heard the HCL Is the best..
But also heard both..?The bark, or the extract will work just as well..

I rather the extract as my 2nd choice..

And the bark 3rd..?But they all can work, if one knows how to take it, and knows how much to take.. Ect, ect, ect, ect, ect, ect..

Only a good provider would know this.
I don't..

But I believe ibogaine is like nothing you ever?
Tried before..?I thought when I got on here, it's just another?
Drug..?It's not..

I don't want to put fear out there.. But it does need to be highly respected..?No mixing of a bunch of meds or illegal drugs with this stuff.

If you on anti depressents i might want to not?
Take then for a day or two before treatment.
But you need to talk with a provider about?

That, they know a lot more then I do..

I still know very little, and like I tell my doctor
When he thinks I know more then what I do..
Which I'm greatful he thinks of me that way,
And yea, I know a phone book of medical shit in my heard, and I don't give my self near enough credit..

But, I tell him, doc, I know just barely enough?
TO NOT DIE!!! That's what I know..

Hey I still know a lot. But, not enough to be
Caling the shots..?And I don't want to be either.
?I say, give that to someone else..
I don't want it, and I don't have a medical?
Degree with mal pratice insurance, I dont
Have that, they do..?

I don't..

I do a know more then poeple would tend to think. but not quite enough to be in the driver?
Seat..?And frankly, I dont want to be.. Not?

Now I don't know maybe down the way, maybe????

Who knows??
I got a 1 in a million chance at this point??
I like to think I still "may" have a slight chance with?My gift for medical knowlage??


But its kind of late in the game, and I'm only?
EMT. Still my early 30s, but, I got to get something?Going in the next year!! I maybe if I can get my morphine down to 30mg or less???
Then I think i could work as a EMT, and tell poeple to fuck off!! But how much I'm Now?

On now, I have a hard time feeling good about it. I dont want to make a mistake.. I don't want?
To hurt another person..

Not saying I would, but I dont feel extremely great about being on 120mgs of morphine daly, sometime more.?It's less then I use to be on., but it's still too much..

I need it to get it down to at or below?
60mgs, but that's asking for alot with my pain issues, but it's not impossible with ibogaine.

I believe in this wonderful medince.?I got a few years to get up and going or miss
The train..?But it could still happen??

Yea, stick around.?


The only thing is the HCL is hard to get.,(shortages, BS, more BS, and then you got iboga the plant the only really grows well in the rainforst, and at the rate the rainforst plants are being destoryed, I'm mean, who know how long this plant may be alive???

I mean, the rainforest is disapering at rates that by 2020, another half will be gone from this earth ?"FOREVER" never to be returned?
To this earth again!! GONE!!!bBye, bye, see you, later, out, piece, late,?
"Hope you made hay while the sun shines"

Just something to think about the next tine you get your hands on ibogaine...?And yes, the cost is nicely up there.?But if one truely wants a experence of a life?
Time, look no further..

I believe in ibogaine.?Like most all enthogens,
It is not addictive.. Or habit forming, or it's not
The norm for it to be.

It's such a hardcore experence, no person?
Would want to make it a habit..

Plus the cost is a huge factor also.
But even if money was not a thing.?
Man, nobody would want to use it just for "fun"

It's not that type of drug.?At least it was not for me.

Also

.
It was posted, i forget the spelling of name,
But she took extract, but took it extremely?
Slowly over the course of many hours.
And that's a kind of good thing to do, at least
That what I want to try doing next time.

Taking the ibogaine extremely slowly over the
Course of many hours to make?
The experence smother..

But to some this is a waste

So to each his own on that one..


Hope that helps?

J




??







On Sep 11, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:



>
>Thank you Jim,I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I do know of the potential of ibo.I actually knew someone who was treated in florida a couple of years ago,and He swears by it! Yes it was expensive, but if it turns my flu into a cold and gives me even a little insight about my troubled soul,then it s worth it.Once again thank you for your welcome and I look forward to hearing from you in the future:)
>
>?
>
________________________________
From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:39:18 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>
>
>
>
>Hi Tony,
>
>This is a great place to come to get advice and pick
>up some good idea and tips.? What exactly it is that
>we can help you with??? We are pro- Ibogaine and
>feel that it should be legal.? I take it your interested
>in Ibo.? What is it you would like to know??? Do you
>want to know if it really works - YES.? Does it always
>work -NO.? If a person want to quit bad enough it
>can make the difference.? Do you want a quick
>overview of what it does - say yes.?? OK, we all
>know the pain and misery of withdrawal.? When
>you take Ibo it takes the raging flu and turns it
>into a cold.? Basically it give you an 80% - 90%
>discount on pain and suffering.? The bad thing 
>about it is it is EXPENSIVE -? $600 per gram.
>
>A good site to check out is ethnogardens.com.
>You can read the history and get pricing info.
>However, you must live in Canada for they will
>not ship to the U.S.?? Also, there is a place
>called erowid .com and they list the experience
>of people who tried it.? Or if you ask the forum
>if anyone can send in a report (for lack of a 
>better word) of how it went I know some will 
>tell you want it was like.? That should give you
>an idea what you will experience.? All experiences
>are different but have certain things in common.
>
>Googleibogaine? and you will see quite a bit
>here are some places I found useful.
>
>www.awakeninginthedream.com
>
>They list detox centers, experiences and other
>info.? It is a good place to get the overall idea
>of what is involved.? As far as the forum goes
>you can ask questions and the people will 
>answer.? Welcome
>
>Hope I helped,
>
>? - JIM
>
>
>
>--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>From: Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>>To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:23 AM
>>
>>
>>Greetings,
>>??? I am new to the comm. and I just wanted to say, its very refreshing to see other like minded people exist in this world. My background, 33 yr old male, About 7 yrs ago had a spiritual exp under the influence of mdma, Without going into to many details my? EYES were opened =) and I caught a glimpse of truth.The exp changed my life. Sadly over the course of time I have regressed again back into my addictive state of mind. I have been battling a horrible opiate habit as well as a terrible nicotine addiction. I have been using opiates for the last couple of years on a daily basis,and quite frankly they are killing me. I have lost 30 pds in the last couple of months. I have since weaned myself down to the lowest dose I have ever been on. 10g of poppys a day:(tea)
>>I come to this forum as a last resort,for help.I KNOW the potential of healing through psycheldelics I have been trying but have a huge tolerance?I have tried- d.o.i -2c-c 2c-i -and most other phenethylamines but have not been able to replicate my orignal exp.I come to this forum in hopes of finding REAL help and support?for this addiction.If there is any treatment possible please contact,sadly I live in s.c and don t think any exist here.Either way I appreciate this forum and hope for the best for everyone here...
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
>>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:22:18 PM
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
>>
>>Greetings friends...
>>
>>Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
>>I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
>>that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
>>with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
>>until it will be safe to undergo an iboga treatment?? I'll be taking
>>the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
>>put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
>>months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
>>prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
>>having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
>>I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
>>this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
>>me where I am!
>>I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
>>getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
>>remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
>>terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
>>looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
>>the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like many
>>a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
>>with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
>>I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
>>no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
>>off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
>>it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
>>put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
>>ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
>>one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
>>while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
>>Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
>>thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
>>The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
>>that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants, but
>>since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
>>probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
>>insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
>>reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
>>that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
>>the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
>>supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
>>for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
>>one!
>>
>>But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~
>>
>>{Hi cal que,
>>
>>I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
>>done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.? I
>>have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
>>for 30 days.
>>
>>BTW, what is an appliance??? Never heard of it, but I just may
>>have to go that route.? Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
>>times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
>>which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
>>canal.? And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
>>means you need a bridge or partial.? Or then have implants
>>I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.? The
>>bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.
>>
>>Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.? A dry
>>socket REALLY hurts.? I had to back and have them give
>>me a shot and put some medication in the gum.? The one
>>and only time.
>>
>>Wishing you the best,
>>
>>? - JIM}
>>
>>...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
>>that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
>>lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
>>done with ibogaine being looked at for pain relief of sorts...I'm
>>thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
>>and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
>>before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
>>for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
>>pun) that word...
>>So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
>>de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
>>spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
>>none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
>>acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
>>knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
>>lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
>>hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
>>lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I know
>>this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
>>be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
>>really really do! Bless you guys! ~K
>>
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From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 15:20:58 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:20:58 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <992113.91164.qm@web59914.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <338511.42810.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<811546.56864.qm@web59907.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<6C335285-4843-4DF7-A208-495FB7D4AF0F@gmail.com>
	<992113.91164.qm@web59914.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30909111220w4e1319a8x8fc62fe6e99d4377@mail.gmail.com>

tony,
ibogaine is strong enough...more than strong enough...
*shudder*



On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  hey thanks Jim, I appreciate and I totally understand where you are
> coming from with this guidance.I  am also involved in the psycheldelic comm.
> and I don t want ANY bad publicity about these truly magical gifts. I am
> totaly against psyche meds,I think they are far worse than any other drug,in
> my opinion.Addiction is my problem hands down. I have been researching
> psycheldelics for 15 years now, and believe they are simply maginifiers of
> your unconsciouss, But I believe the only way to heal properly is to access
> these areas ,ie hallucinogens-But for me ,hallucinogens aren t strong enough
> to break through years of pain, and chronic addiction. Research and
> expiernece has lead me here,
>
>
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From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 16:27:56 2009
From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:27:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <992113.91164.qm@web59914.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <238852.872.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Hi Tony,

I understand what your saying.? I believe Mescaline can
be very spiritual.? Of course few people would believe 
me if I told them I took it for spiritual reasons.? But the
term psychedelic is a poor description of Ibo.? It is 
classified as a psychedelic and a schedule I illegal 
drug.? It is not like any other psychedelic out there.? Or
like anything you? have ever tried for that matter. ? It
is more like lucid dreaming.? You take it and hear it
in 15-20 minutes and then puke at 1 hr and then you
watch a movie - Really. Then you lay quiet close your
eyes and watch the movie.? You will experience CEV
or closed eyes visuals.? You will see certain things
and should you see something you do not like you 
ask it to go away and it will.? Since it is classified as a
psychedelic many people think it is similar to LSD or
Mescaline but it is nothing at all like that.? It is kind of
strange it is not really a fun experience but a learning
experience.? I never really heard of a bad trip, like I 
say you can ask the movie to change (guess like fast
forward).? It is not a recreational drug either.? The only
real purpose is to quit drugs or try to improve your life.
And it also works for cigarettes so if that is a problem
you may want to quit everything once you have the
power.

Now, after your experience you will not be able to 
sleep for about a week and you may not be too 
hungry.? I remember the cold turkey detoxes, I 
did not eat for a week - a full five days before I
could eat an apple.? If your working you can not
take it Friday after work and be at work on Mon.
You should have a good 7 - 10 days off if possible.
If your in a lot of pain the Ibo will stop the pain
for about 30 days.? And it reduces or eliminates
the cravings for 6 months to 9 months for 
most people.

Feel free to ask anyone a question they are glad to
share their experiences with you.? If you would like
to read someone's account of the experience just 
ask out loud "Hey can anyone send me a copy of 
their experience" and they will.? If you would like
to ask a personal question you can write them
off line.? Do not just hit reply - start a new letter and
put their name on it otherwise you will be writing 
the whole board.? It's happened, but usually no 
one makes a big deal out of it, good bunch here.

It really is a fine medicine when used correctly.
There is no potential for abuse.? But Ibo can
not do the job itself, the person must help.? For
example you would be better off changing your
using friends or tell them please do not tempt
me.? What kind of person would tempt a friend
to use when they know he is trying to quit??
When you get to this stage of addiction it is
often a matter of life and death.? Ibo is the best
medicine to use to quit.? A hell of a lot better 
than Methadone or bupe. ? 

Take Care,

? - JIM

?

--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 2:42 PM

hey thanks Jim, I appreciate and I totally understand where you are coming from with this guidance.I? am also involved in the psycheldelic comm. and I don t want ANY bad publicity about these truly magical gifts. I am totaly against psyche meds,I think they are far worse than any other drug,in my opinion.Addiction is my problem hands down. I have been researching psycheldelics for 15 years now, and believe they are simply maginifiers of your unconsciouss, But I believe the only way to heal properly is to access these areas ,ie hallucinogens-But for me ,hallucinogens aren t strong enough to break through years of pain, and chronic addiction.?Research and expiernece?has lead me here,



?From: Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:16:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)


Yea, I think the HCL is the way to go..
But it cost a lot..?But it could life changing, so it's worth it..


I thought to myself, what is that worth??
What is the cost of something like that worth???It's worth a try..?Ive done bark and the extract..


But low dose..


You really need a sitter with you, just to help?
You not feel all alone..


It nice to have a person to talk to, or just beb
There.?It can also be dangerous if not taking in the Right setting..?And no mixing other drugs with it..


It's just not a good idea to mix anything?
With it..


Maybe some benozs to help you calm your self some before leaving planet earth and
Blasting off into out space..


"space the final frontier.." "to go where no?
Man as gone before. "To explore new worlds.."


But anyway, I heard the HCL Is the best..
But also heard both..?The bark, or the extract will work just as well..


I rather the extract as my 2nd choice..

And the bark 3rd..?But they all can work, if one knows how to take it, and knows how much to take.. Ect, ect, ect, ect, ect, ect..


Only a good provider would know this.
I don't..


But I believe ibogaine is like nothing you ever?
Tried before..?I thought when I got on here, it's just another?
Drug..?It's not..


I don't want to put fear out there.. But it does need to be highly respected..?No mixing of a bunch of meds or illegal drugs with this stuff.


If you on anti depressents i might want to not?
Take then for a day or two before treatment.
But you need to talk with a provider about?

That, they know a lot more then I do..


I still know very little, and like I tell my doctor
When he thinks I know more then what I do..
Which I'm greatful he thinks of me that way,
And yea, I know a phone book of medical shit in my heard, and I don't give my self near enough credit..


But, I tell him, doc, I know just barely enough?
TO NOT DIE!!! That's what I know..


Hey I still know a lot. But, not enough to be
Caling the shots..?And I don't want to be either.
?I say, give that to someone else..
I don't want it, and I don't have a medical?
Degree with mal pratice insurance, I dont
Have that, they do..?


I don't..


I do a know more then poeple would tend to think. but not quite enough to be in the driver?
Seat..?And frankly, I dont want to be.. Not?


Now I don't know maybe down the way, maybe????


Who knows??
I got a 1 in a million chance at this point??
I like to think I still "may" have a slight chance with?My gift for medical knowlage??



But its kind of late in the game, and I'm only?
EMT. Still my early 30s, but, I got to get something?Going in the next year!! I maybe if I can get my morphine down to 30mg or less???
Then I think i could work as a EMT, and tell poeple to fuck off!! But how much I'm Now?


On now, I have a hard time feeling good about it. I dont want to make a mistake.. I don't want?
To hurt another person..


Not saying I would, but I dont feel extremely great about being on 120mgs of morphine daly, sometime more.?It's less then I use to be on., but it's still too much..


I need it to get it down to at or below?
60mgs, but that's asking for alot with my pain issues, but it's not impossible with ibogaine.


I believe in this wonderful medince.?I got a few years to get up and going or miss
The train..?But it could still happen??


Yea, stick around.?



The only thing is the HCL is hard to get.,(shortages, BS, more BS, and then you got iboga the plant the only really grows well in the rainforst, and at the rate the rainforst plants are being destoryed, I'm mean, who know how long this plant may be alive???


I mean, the rainforest is disapering at rates that by 2020, another half will be gone from this earth ?"FOREVER" never to be returned?
To this earth again!! GONE!!!bBye, bye, see you, later, out, piece, late,?
"Hope you made hay while the sun shines"


Just something to think about the next tine you get your hands on ibogaine...?And yes, the cost is nicely up there.?But if one truely wants a experence of a life?
Time, look no further..


I believe in ibogaine.?Like most all enthogens,
It is not addictive.. Or habit forming, or it's not
The norm for it to be.


It's such a hardcore experence, no person?
Would want to make it a habit..


Plus the cost is a huge factor also.
But even if money was not a thing.?
Man, nobody would want to use it just for "fun"


It's not that type of drug.?At least it was not for me.


Also

.
It was posted, i forget the spelling of name,
But she took extract, but took it extremely?
Slowly over the course of many hours.
And that's a kind of good thing to do, at least
That what I want to try doing next time.


Taking the ibogaine extremely slowly over the
Course of many hours to make?
The experence smother..


But to some this is a waste

So to each his own on that one..



Hope that helps?


J








??













On Sep 11, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:








Thank you Jim,I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I do know of the potential of ibo.I actually knew someone who was treated in florida a couple of years ago,and He swears by it! Yes it was expensive, but if it turns my flu into a cold and gives me even a little insight about my troubled soul,then it s worth it.Once again thank you for your welcome and I look forward to hearing from you in the future:)

?


From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:39:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)







Hi Tony,

This is a great place to come to get advice and pick
up some good idea and tips.? What exactly it is that
we can help you with??? We are pro- Ibogaine and
feel that it should be legal.? I take it your interested
in Ibo.? What is it you would like to know??? Do you
want to know if it really works - YES.? Does it always
work -NO.? If a person want to quit bad enough it
can make the difference.? Do you want a quick
overview of what it does - say yes.?? OK, we all
know the pain and misery of withdrawal.? When
you take Ibo it takes the raging flu and turns it
into a cold.? Basically it give you an 80% - 90%
discount on pain and suffering.? The bad thing 
about it is it is EXPENSIVE -? $600 per gram.

A good site to check out is ethnogardens.com.
You can read the history and get pricing info.
However, you must live in Canada for they will
not ship to the U.S.?? Also, there is a place
called erowid .com and they list the experience
of people who tried it.? Or if you ask the forum
if anyone can send in a report (for lack of a 
better word) of how it went I know some will 
tell you want it was like.? That should give you
an idea what you will experience.? All experiences
are different but have certain things in common.

Google ibogaine? and you will see quite a bit
here are some places I found useful.

www.awakeninginthedream.com

They list detox centers, experiences and other
info.? It is a good place to get the overall idea
of what is involved.? As far as the forum goes
you can ask questions and the people will 
answer.? Welcome

Hope I helped,

? - JIM



--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Tony Basile <ajb0276 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:23 AM






Greetings,
??? I am new to the comm. and I just wanted to say, its very refreshing to see other like minded people exist in this world. My background, 33 yr old male, About 7 yrs ago had a spiritual exp under the influence of mdma, Without going into to many details my? EYES were opened =) and I caught a glimpse of truth.The exp changed my life. Sadly over the course of time I have regressed again back into my addictive state of mind. I have been battling a horrible opiate habit as well as a terrible nicotine addiction. I have been using opiates for the last couple of years on a daily basis,and quite frankly they are killing me. I have lost 30 pds in the last couple of months. I have since weaned myself down to the lowest dose I have ever been on. 10g of poppys a day:(tea)
I come to this forum as a last resort,for help.I KNOW the potential of healing through psycheldelics I have been trying but have a huge tolerance?I have tried- d.o.i -2c-c 2c-i -and most other phenethylamines but have not been able to replicate my orignal exp.I come to this forum in hopes of finding REAL help and support?for this addiction.If there is any treatment possible please contact,sadly I live in s.c and don t think any exist here.Either way I appreciate this forum and hope for the best for everyone here...




From: cal que <calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:22:18 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)

Greetings friends...

Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
until it will be safe to undergo an iboga
 treatment?? I'll be taking
the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
me where I am!
I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like
 many
a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants,
 but
since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
one!

But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~

{Hi cal que,

I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.? I
have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
for 30 days.

BTW, what is an appliance??? Never heard of it, but I just may
have to go that
 route.? Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
canal.? And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
means you need a bridge or partial.? Or then have implants
I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.? The
bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.

Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.? A dry
socket REALLY hurts.? I had to back and have them give
me a shot and put some medication in the gum.? The one
and only time.

Wishing you the best,

? - JIM}

...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
done with ibogaine being looked at for pain
 relief of sorts...I'm
thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
pun) that word...
So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I
 know
this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
really really do! Bless you guys! ~K

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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep 11 16:42:24 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:42:24 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] =?iso-8859-1?q?=28no_subject=29?=
Message-ID: <20090911204224.25326.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

  Yes, what Jim said!
My only addition would be that I was able to sleep like regular after the
first night, and on the third night I made a big family dinner. My fruit
consumption has slowed down, but my first couple weeks outta the ibogate,
that's all I wanted. It was so, so delicious.
Something else I learned, your intention means a lot, but not your
expectations, lol.

I'm sure by now you have been in touch with people off list. Use your
instincts. There are some fine, fine humans, here.


 	-------Original Message-------
  From: Jim Hadey
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
  Sent: 11 Sep '09 12:27


Hi Tony,

I understand what your saying.  I believe Mescaline can
be very spiritual.  Of course few people would believe
me if I told them I took it for spiritual reasons.  But the
term psychedelic is a poor description of Ibo.  It is
classified as a psychedelic and a schedule I illegal
drug.  It is not like any other psychedelic out there.  Or
like anything you  have ever tried for that matter.   It
is more like lucid dreaming.  You take it and hear it
in 15-20 minutes and then puke at 1 hr and then you
watch a movie - Really. Then you lay quiet close your
eyes and watch the movie.  You will experience CEV
or closed eyes visuals.  You will see certain things
and should you see something you do not like you
ask it to go away and it will.  Since   it is classified as a
psychedelic many people think it is similar to LSD or
Mescaline but it is nothing at all like that.  It is kind of
strange it is not really a fun experience but a learning
experience.  I never really heard of a bad trip, like I
say you can ask the movie to change (guess like fast
forward).  It is not a recreational drug either.  The only
real purpose is to quit drugs or try to improve your life.
And it also works for cigarettes so if that is a problem
you may want to quit everything once you have the
power.

Now, after your experience you will not be able to
sleep for about a week and you may not be too
hungry.  I remember the cold turkey detoxes, I
did not eat for a week - a full five days before I
could eat an apple.  If your working you can not
take it Friday after work and be at work on Mon.
You should have a good 7 - 10 days off if   possible.
If your in a lot of pain the Ibo will stop the pain
for about 30 days.  And it reduces or eliminates
the cravings for 6 months to 9 months for
most people.

Feel free to ask anyone a question they are glad to
share their experiences with you.  If you would like
to read someone's account of the experience just
ask out loud "Hey can anyone send me a copy of
their experience" and they will.  If you would like
to ask a personal question you can write them
off line.  Do not just hit reply - start a new letter and
put their name on it otherwise you will be writing
the whole board.  It's happened, but usually no
one makes a big deal out of it, good bunch here.

It really is a fine medicine when used correctly.
There is no potential for abuse.  But Ibo can
not do the job itself, the person must help.  For
example you would be better off changing   your
using friends or tell them please do not tempt
me.  What kind of person would tempt a friend
to use when they know he is trying to quit??
When you get to this stage of addiction it is
often a matter of life and death.  Ibo is the best
medicine to use to quit.  A hell of a lot better
than Methadone or bupe.

Take Care,

  - JIM


--- On FRI, 9/11/09, TONY BASILE  wrote:

From: Tony Basile
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
To: "The Ibogaine List"
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 2:42 PM


hey thanks Jim, I appreciate and I totally understand where you are coming
from with this guidance.I  am also involved in the psycheldelic comm. and I
don t want ANY bad publicity about these truly magical gifts. I am totaly
against psyche meds,I think they are far worse than any other drug,in my
opinion.Addiction is my problem hands down. I have been researching
psycheldelics for 15 years now, and believe they are simply maginifiers of
your unconsciouss, But I believe the only way to heal properly is to access
these areas ,ie hallucinogens-But for me ,hallucinogens aren t strong
enough to break through years of pain, and chronic addiction. Research and
expiernece has lead me here,


          --------------------
   FROM: Jeremy Spence
TO: The Ibogaine List
SENT: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:16:02 PM
SUBJECT: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)


Yea, I think the HCL is the way to go..
But it cost a lot.. But it could life changing, so it's worth it..


I thought to myself, what is that worth??
What is the cost of something like that worth?? It's worth a try.. Ive
done bark and the extract..


But low dose..


You really need a sitter with you, just to help
You not feel all alone..


It nice to have a person to talk to, or just beb
There. It can also be dangerous if not taking in the Right setting.. And
no mixing other drugs with it..


It's just not a good idea to mix anything
With it..


Maybe some benozs to help you calm your self some before leaving planet
earth and
Blasting off into out space..


"space the final frontier.." "to go where no
Man as gone before. "To explore new worlds.."


But anyway, I heard the HCL Is the best..
But also heard both.. The bark, or the extract will work just as well..


I rather the extract as my 2nd choice..

And the bark 3rd.. But they all can work, if one knows how to take it, and
knows how much to take.. Ect, ect, ect, ect, ect, ect..


Only a good provider would know this.
I don't..


But I believe ibogaine is like nothing you ever
Tried before.. I thought when I got on here, it's just another
Drug.. It's not..


I don't want to put fear out there.. But it does need to be highly
respected.. No mixing of a bunch of meds or illegal drugs with this stuff.


If you on anti depressents i might want to not
Take then for a day or two before treatment.
But you need to talk with a provider about

That, they know a lot more then I do..


I still know very little, and like I tell my doctor
When he thinks I know more then what I do..
Which I'm greatful he thinks of me that way,
And yea, I know a phone book of medical shit in my heard, and I don't give
my self near enough credit..


But, I tell him, doc, I know just barely enough
TO NOT DIE!!! That's what I know..


Hey I still know a lot. But, not enough to be
Caling the shots.. And I don't want to be either.
 I say, give that to someone else..
I don't want it, and I don't have a medical
Degree with mal pratice insurance, I dont
Have that, they do..


I don't..


I do a know more then poeple would tend to think. but not quite enough to
be in the driver
Seat.. And frankly, I dont want to be.. Not


Now I don't know maybe down the way, maybe????


Who knows??
I got a 1 in a million chance at this point??
I like to think I still "may" have a slight chance with My gift for
medical knowlage??


But its kind of late in the game, and I'm only
EMT. Still my early 30s, but, I got to get something Going in the next
year!! I maybe if I can get my morphine down to 30mg or less??
Then I think i could work as a EMT, and tell poeple to fuck off!! But how
much I'm Now


On now, I have a hard time feeling good about it. I dont want to make a
mistake.. I don't want
To hurt another person..


Not saying I would, but I dont feel extremely great about being on 120mgs
of morphine daly, sometime more. It's less then I use to be on., but it's
still too much..


I need it to get it down to at or below
60mgs, but that's asking for alot with my pain issues, but it's not
impossible with ibogaine.


I believe in this wonderful medince. I got a few years to get up and going
or miss
The train.. But it could still happen??


Yea, stick around.


The only thing is the HCL is hard to get.,(shortages, BS, more BS, and
then you got iboga the plant the only really grows well in the rainforst,
and at the rate the rainforst plants are being destoryed, I'm mean, who
know how long this plant may be alive???


I mean, the rainforest is disapering at rates that by 2020, another half
will be gone from this earth  "FOREVER" never to be returned
To this earth again!! GONE!!!bBye, bye, see you, later, out, piece, late,

"Hope you made hay while the sun shines"


Just something to think about the next tine you get your hands on
ibogaine... And yes, the cost is nicely up there. But if one truely wants a
experence of a life
Time, look no further..


I believe in ibogaine. Like most all enthogens,
It is not addictive.. Or habit forming, or it's not
The norm for it to be.


It's such a hardcore experence, no person
Would want to make it a habit..


Plus the cost is a huge factor also.
But even if money was not a thing.
Man, nobody would want to use it just for "fun"


It's not that type of drug. At least it was not for me.


Also

.
It was posted, i forget the spelling of name,
But she took extract, but took it extremely
Slowly over the course of many hours.
And that's a kind of good thing to do, at least
That what I want to try doing next time.


Taking the ibogaine extremely slowly over the
Course of many hours to make
The experence smother..


But to some this is a waste

So to each his own on that one..


Hope that helps


J


On Sep 11, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Tony Basile <[LINK:
/mc/compose?to=ajb0276 at yahoo.com] ajb0276 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Thank you Jim,I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I do know of the
potential of ibo.I actually knew someone who was treated in florida a
couple of years ago,and He swears by it! Yes it was expensive, but if it
turns my flu into a cold and gives me even a little insight about my
troubled soul,then it s worth it.Once again thank you for your welcome and
I look forward to hearing from you in the future:)


          --------------------
  FROM: Jim Hadey <[LINK: /mc/compose?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com]
jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>
TO: The Ibogaine List <[LINK: /mc/compose?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com]
ibogaine at mindvox.com>
SENT: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:39:18 AM
SUBJECT: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)


Hi Tony,

This is a great place to come to get advice and pick
up some good idea and tips.  What exactly it is that
we can help you with??  We are pro- Ibogaine and
feel that it should be legal.  I take it your interested
in Ibo.  What is it you would like to know??  Do you
want to know if it really works - YES.  Does it always
work -NO.  If a person want to quit bad enough it
can make the difference.  Do you want a quick
overview of what it does - say yes.   OK, we all
know the pain and misery of withdrawal.  When
you take Ibo it takes the raging flu and turns it
into a cold.  Basically it give you an 80% - 90%
discount on pain and suffering.  The bad thing
about it is it is EXPENSIVE -  $600 per gram.

A good site to check out is [LINK: http://ethnogardens.com/] [LINK:
http://ethnogardens.com/] ethnogardens.com.
You can read the history and get pricing info.
However, you must live in Canada for they will
not ship to the U.S.   Also, there is a place
called erowid .com and they list the experience
of people who tried it.  Or if you ask the forum
if anyone can send in a report (for lack of a
better word) of how it went I know some will
tell you want it was like.  That should give you
an idea what you will experience.  All experiences
are different but have certain things in common.

Google ibogaine  and you will see quite a bit
here are some places I found useful.

[LINK: http://www.awakeninginthedream.com/] [LINK:
http://www.awakeninginthedream.com/] www.awakeninginthedream.com

They list detox centers, experiences and other
info.  It is a good place to get the overall idea
of what is involved.  As far as the forum goes
you can ask questions and the people will
answer.  Welcome

Hope I helped,

  - JIM


--- On FRI, 9/11/09, TONY BASILE _&LT;[LINK:
/MC/COMPOSE?TO=AJB0276 at YAHOO.COM] AJB0276 at YAHOO.COM&GT;_ wrote:

From: Tony Basile <[LINK: /mc/compose?to=ajb0276 at yahoo.com]
ajb0276 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
To: "The Ibogaine List" <[LINK: /mc/compose?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com]
ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:23 AM


Greetings,
    I am new to the comm. and I just wanted to say, its very refreshing to
see other like minded people exist in this world. My background, 33 yr old
male, About 7 yrs ago had a spiritual exp under the influence of mdma,
Without going into to many details my  EYES were opened =) and I caught a
glimpse of truth.The exp changed my life. Sadly over the course of time I
have regressed again back into my addictive state of mind. I have been
battling a horrible opiate habit as well as a terrible nicotine addiction.
I have been using opiates for the last couple of years on a daily basis,and
quite frankly they are killing me. I have lost 30 pds in the last couple of
months. I have since weaned myself down to the lowest dose I have ever been
on. 10g of poppys a day:(tea)
I come to this forum as a last resort,for help.I KNOW the potential of
healing through psycheldelics I have been trying but have a huge tolerance
I have tried- d.o.i -2c-c 2c-i -and most other phenethylamines but have not
been able to replicate my orignal exp.I come to this forum in hopes of
finding REAL help and support for this addiction.If there is any treatment
possible please contact,sadly I live in s.c and don t think any exist
here.Either way I appreciate this forum and hope for the best for everyone
here...


          --------------------
  FROM: cal que <[LINK: /mc/compose?to=calaquendi420 at gmail.com]
calaquendi420 at gmail.com>
TO: The Ibogaine List <[LINK: /mc/compose?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com]
ibogaine at mindvox.com>
SENT: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:22:18 PM
SUBJECT: [Ibogaine] (no subject)

Greetings friends...

Wanted to start a new post here about a situation I find myself in:
I'm having some oral surgery coming up very soon and it so happens
that plans I've made to engage in a TA iboga session are crisscrossed
with my health needs. My concerns are about how long I should wait
until it will be safe to   undergo an iboga   treatment?  I'll be taking
the TA to kind of boost my psychological and spiritual well being and
put the 'wind back in my sails'. I successfully treated with TA a few
months ago to break a long opiate addiction, but find myself recently
prescribed meds for the pain I'm in, and ( big surprise) I'm already
having a hard time keeping to the appropriate dosing of my Rx...
I would postpone the dental procedure if I could, but it seems it is
this very notion of procrastinating until I'm in awful pain that got
me where I am!
I'll level with you guys, even though it's embarrassing and gross; I'm
getting a large quantity of teeth yanked all at once (nine), the
remaining ones from the entire upper arch ~ I know...it's
terrible...thing is, I've already had some major stuff done - but
looking back, all it served for was 'damage control' and to put off
the inevitable. I have shitty genetics for dental health and like   many
a good junkie I neglected some basic hygiene and so now am dealing
with the consequences. As I said, it is terribly embarrassing for me,
I'm kinda young to have this sort of thing happen but really there is
no healthy alternative. I've exhausted all my attempts to blow this
off, all the 'patch work' and crowns, root canals and you name
it...just ran out of options. This is ironic, you'd think I would have
put more energy into prophylaxis but a using addict seldom thinks
ahead, unless it's thinking about scoring dope, this has always been
one the things that freaked me out the most: having to lose my 'grill'
while I'm still (sort of) a young guy...
Call it vanity, but I'm reaally not too cool with this. Not a damned
thing I can do now though, except buck up and handle it.
The dentist will be doing some "bone preservation" work as well, so
that one day if I can afford it, I will be able to get implants,   but
since insurance apparently considers (my) teeth 'cosmetic' I'll
probably never be able to swing those, and anyways I don't even have
insurance...I'm pissed that I let it come to this. For whatever
reasons I'm having some infection and problems happening right now
that require this to be done ASAP, as any other attempts at dodging
the situation would only be exercises in futility. I note that my
supply of material will coincide almost precisely with the appointment
for this ghastly procedure, if I could, I'd get a good laugh at that
one!

But I want to respond here to Jim: he writes~

{Hi cal que,

I would say get the work done and take the meds, when they are
done you could do TA and might find pain relief from the IBO.  I
have severe pain and when I do an Ibo treatment there is no pain
for 30 days.

BTW, what is an appliance??  Never heard of it, but I just may
have to go that   route.  Ohh, I have been to the dentist so many
times, many of my teeth that had crowns, the crowns leaked
which mean they had to be replaced and often with a root
canal.  And sometimes the tooth could not be saved which
means you need a bridge or partial.  Or then have implants
I believe they are called they kind of screw in the gum.  The
bad part is they cost $1700 and maybe a root canal -ouch.

Oh when they say don't spit, suck, smoke - don't.  A dry
socket REALLY hurts.  I had to back and have them give
me a shot and put some medication in the gum.  The one
and only time.

Wishing you the best,

  - JIM}

...Thank you Jim for the kind words and good advice, I was leaning in
that direction, I have some inclination that iboga would help in any
lingering pain, post-op as well. I have heard of some studies being
done with ibogaine being looked at for pain   relief of sorts...I'm
thinking I'll have to give it about two weeks for me to heal up some
and then take the TA, which I will be preparing for myself as I did
before. BTW Jim, the "appliance" I spoke of was my gentle euphemism
for "denture" my friend! I just have a difficult time swallowing (no
pun) that word...
So, as it stands, I will go ahead and do this shameful process of
de-fanging and take my licks like a big boy, then when I'm no longer
spitting up quarts of blood, take the TA and get on with life. Maybe
none of this is coincidence, maybe I have some learning to do, some
acceptance (big word) work to fulfill. There is a part of me that
knows I don't even need to ask those questions. I'm sure I have
lessons to learn from this, plus I'm good at beating myself up and
hanging on to crap about how things even got this way, I could have
lost a limb or something much worse from my years of using... I   know
this. Anyway thanks to you all for the sounding-board, it is good to
be able to talk about this, I appreciate the support from you all I
really really do! Bless you guys! ~K

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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep 11 17:12:42 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:12:42 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] =?iso-8859-1?q?12_step_treatment_providers_and_ibo?=
Message-ID: <20090911211242.14035.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I am still in
legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.

This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual sessions.
In one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with sobriety,
and how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that
pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment, but, it does
'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is a decent
human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who kept asking me
to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't surf the
internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.

Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical,
intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under his belt. I'm
going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great report by
Bastiaans.

Please tell me what y'all think I could do. This seems like a great
opportunity. Open to all recommendations, I see him tomorrow.

Thanks!

row, row, row your boat
gently down the stream
beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly
life is but a dream
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From jimhadey3 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 18:58:40 2009
From: jimhadey3 at yahoo.com (Jim Hadey)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:58:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <20090911211242.14035.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <724867.61483.qm@web51309.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi Bev,

He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but 
remember he get his paycheck from the state.? I would
wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
book.? Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
a nice Christmas present.? Remember, Fed, state and 
local governments do not like Ibo.? Really the 'teacher' 
can not like it or endorse it.? However, should he quit and
get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
to good use.? And some of the students may check it
out.? Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
the new names. LOL?? 

I know alcoholics that tried so
hard but were never able to quit.? It seems Ibo is the
last resort.? If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
it would put 70% out of business.? What we need is a
Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
like he did with aspartame.? Rummy is the one who 
called his markers and had the FDA? approve aspartame.
Fun facts to know and tell.

Your doing great Bev, keep it up.

Best to ya,

? - JIM? 

--- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com> wrote:

From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM

Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I am still in legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.

This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual sessions. In one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with sobriety, and how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment, but, it does 'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is a decent human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who kept asking me to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't surf the internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.

Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical, intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under his belt. I'm going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great report by Bastiaans. 

Please tell me what y'all think I could d
 o. This seems like a great opportunity. Open to all recommendations, I see him tomorrow. 

Thanks!

row, row, row your boat
gently down the stream
beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly 
life is but a dream








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From calaquendi420 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 21:12:43 2009
From: calaquendi420 at gmail.com (cal que)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:12:43 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <724867.61483.qm@web51309.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <20090911211242.14035.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<724867.61483.qm@web51309.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <725c35de0909111812j1805f7cm6d696262e7b04055@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html

http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml

http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm

maybe you could turn him on to a few sites?
hope this helps, funny how these opportunities happen ;)

On 9/11/09, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Bev,
>
> He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but
> remember he get his paycheck from the state.? I would
> wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
> book.? Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
> a nice Christmas present.? Remember, Fed, state and
> local governments do not like Ibo.? Really the 'teacher'
> can not like it or endorse it.? However, should he quit and
> get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
> to good use.? And some of the students may check it
> out.? Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
> the new names. LOL
>
> I know alcoholics that tried so
> hard but were never able to quit.? It seems Ibo is the
> last resort.? If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
> it would put 70% out of business.? What we need is a
> Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
> we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
> like he did with aspartame.? Rummy is the one who
> called his markers and had the FDA? approve aspartame.
> Fun facts to know and tell.
>
> Your doing great Bev, keep it up.
>
> Best to ya,
>
> ? - JIM
>
> --- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com> wrote:
>
> From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>
> Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
>
> Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I am still in
> legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.
>
> This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual sessions. In
> one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with sobriety, and
> how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that
> pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment, but, it does
> 'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is a decent
> human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who kept asking me
> to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't surf the
> internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical,
> intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under his belt. I'm
> going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great report by
> Bastiaans.
>
> Please tell me what y'all think I could d
>  o. This seems like a great opportunity. Open to all recommendations, I see
> him tomorrow.
>
> Thanks!
>
> row, row, row your boat
> gently down the stream
> beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly
> life is but a dream
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>

From shilohver at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 11 23:08:14 2009
From: shilohver at shaw.ca (sv)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:08:14 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] gun rights
Message-ID: <9614CDAB34C34F8991EEDFC377829A29@ShilohPC>

Jeremy
Perhaps instead of comparing the United States to Mexico, you should look at your other neighbor Canada, who is by light years more culturally similar. Handguns are outlawed in Canada, and we have fewer murders in the entire country than the city of New Orleans (a relatively small city). 
PeaceOut
Shiloh
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From maxx at izmudd.com  Fri Sep 11 23:26:38 2009
From: maxx at izmudd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?beverly=20maxx=20jackson?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:26:38 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] =?iso-8859-1?q?12_step_treatment_providers_and_ibo?=
Message-ID: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>

  Thanks guys.

Jim, I will be careful. It's not really 'therapy', though they are bound
by those rules.

Cal, he doesn't 'do internet' that well. That's why I wanted stuff to
print out. I will provide him with sites, however.

Feelin' mushy about this place.

B


 	-------Original Message-------
  From: cal que
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
  Sent: 11 Sep '09 17:12

  [LINK: http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html]
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html

  [LINK: http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml]
http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml

  [LINK:
http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm]
http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm

  maybe you could turn him on to a few sites?
  hope this helps, funny how these opportunities happen ;)

  On 9/11/09, Jim Hadey <[LINK:
http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com]
jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
  >
  > Hi Bev,
  >
  > He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but
  > remember he get his paycheck from the state.  I would
  > wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
  > book.  Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
  > a nice Christmas present.  Remember, Fed, state and
  > local governments do not like Ibo.  Really the 'teacher'
  > can not like it or endorse it.  However, should he quit and
  > get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
  > to good use.  And some of the students may check it
  > out.  Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
  > the new names. LOL
  >
  > I know alcoholics that tried so
  > hard but were never able to quit.  It seems Ibo is the
  > last resort.  If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
  > it would put 70% out of business.  What we need is a
  > Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
  > we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
  > like he did with aspartame.  Rummy is the one who
  > called his markers and had the FDA  approve aspartame.
  > Fun facts to know and tell.
  >
  > Your doing great Bev, keep it up.
  >
  > Best to ya,
  >
  >   - JIM
  >
  > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <[LINK:
http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=maxx at izmudd.com] maxx at izmudd.com>
wrote:
  >
  > From: beverly maxx jackson <[LINK:
http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=maxx at izmudd.com] maxx at izmudd.com>
  > Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
  > To: [LINK: http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com]
ibogaine at mindvox.com
  > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
  >
  > Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I am still
in
  > legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.
  >
  > This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual
sessions. In
  > one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with sobriety,
and
  > how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that
  > pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment, but, it
does
  > 'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is a
decent
  > human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who kept
asking me
  > to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't surf
the
  > internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.
  >
  > Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical,
  > intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under his belt.
I'm
  > going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great report
by
  > Bastiaans.
  >
  > Please tell me what y'all think I could d
  >  o. This seems like a great opportunity. Open to all recommendations,
I see
  > him tomorrow.
  >
  > Thanks!
  >
  > row, row, row your boat
  > gently down the stream
  > beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly
  > life is but a dream
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  >
  >
  >   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
  > (][%]  :: [LINK: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine]
http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
  >   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
  >
  >
  >
  >

    -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
  (][%]  :: [LINK: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine]
http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 23:54:58 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:54:58 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] gun rights
In-Reply-To: <9614CDAB34C34F8991EEDFC377829A29@ShilohPC>
References: <9614CDAB34C34F8991EEDFC377829A29@ShilohPC>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30909112054q1a420f8dr3dd31eb886db5b21@mail.gmail.com>

i dont know that id call new orleans all the civilized... lol...



On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:08 PM, sv <shilohver at shaw.ca> wrote:

>  Jeremy
> Perhaps instead of comparing the United States to Mexico, you should look
> at your other neighbor Canada, who is by light years more culturally
> similar. Handguns are outlawed in Canada, and we have fewer murders in the
> entire country than the city of New Orleans (a relatively small city).
> PeaceOut
> Shiloh
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
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From shilohver at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 12 01:36:24 2009
From: shilohver at shaw.ca (sv)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:36:24 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun legislation
Message-ID: <50FC7A683E3F40C094E7F5C8B12DB03C@ShilohPC>

Of course handguns can be purchased illegally in any city..but it does make it a lot harder especially for the regular joe blow. It is really a better system. I'm ok with not having the right to carry a hand gun. Someone would probably be dead now.
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From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 02:00:43 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:00:43 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun legislation
In-Reply-To: <50FC7A683E3F40C094E7F5C8B12DB03C@ShilohPC>
References: <50FC7A683E3F40C094E7F5C8B12DB03C@ShilohPC>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0909112300x5b5d094dx70379d44023d0850@mail.gmail.com>

Privileges are taken and given.. Rights are not!  ;).

I could give a shit less about having a gun but as for the society
issues I'm more interested in the illness than I am the symptoms..
ie... Violence.

Just my 2 cents

On 9/11/09, sv <shilohver at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Of course handguns can be purchased illegally in any city..but it does make
> it a lot harder especially for the regular joe blow. It is really a better
> system. I'm ok with not having the right to carry a hand gun. Someone would
> probably be dead now.

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

From falleneden1 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 03:03:14 2009
From: falleneden1 at gmail.com (fallen eden)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 00:03:14 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
References: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
Message-ID: <8999cc760909120003i2bb0a0d2jc0f42f90bd479587@mail.gmail.com>

I think Howard's Dossier is a great site (www.ibogaine.org), lots of info
all over the board with history, treatment methods, general stuff for the
layperson, cool technical stuff too (if you can read through it). That might
be one of the good basic websites to give along with the others mentioned.

I just couldn't stand AA or NA when I tried going to meetings after my first
treatment.. it was just so depressing. I couldn't really talk about my
experience because there had already been a few people mentioning how "bad"
psychedelics were.. I felt isolated, and it reminded me too much of what
"back then" felt like- trying to detox the "normal" way. I was so happy, but
couldn't really explain how staying clean "just came to me" in my mind and
it felt so easy and I felt so joyful.. no one would have understood.. But I
know 12-step works for some folks, so I say go for whatever works

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>wrote:

>
> Thanks guys.
>
> Jim, I will be careful. It's not really 'therapy', though they are bound by
> those rules.
>
> Cal, he doesn't 'do internet' that well. That's why I wanted stuff to print
> out. I will provide him with sites, however.
>
> Feelin' mushy about this place.
>
> B
>
>
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
> From: cal que
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
> Sent: 11 Sep '09 17:12
>
> http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html
>
> http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml
>
> http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm
>
> maybe you could turn him on to a few sites?
> hope this helps, funny how these opportunities happen ;)
>
> On 9/11/09, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com<http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bev,
> >
> > He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but
> > remember he get his paycheck from the state.  I would
> > wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
> > book.  Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
> > a nice Christmas present.  Remember, Fed, state and
> > local governments do not like Ibo.  Really the 'teacher'
> > can not like it or endorse it.  However, should he quit and
> > get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
> > to good use.  And some of the students may check it
> > out.  Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
> > the new names. LOL
> >
> > I know alcoholics that tried so
> > hard but were never able to quit.  It seems Ibo is the
> > last resort.  If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
> > it would put 70% out of business.  What we need is a
> > Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
> > we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
> > like he did with aspartame.  Rummy is the one who
> > called his markers and had the FDA  approve aspartame.
> > Fun facts to know and tell.
> >
> > Your doing great Bev, keep it up.
> >
> > Best to ya,
> >
> >   - JIM
> >
> > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com<http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=maxx at izmudd.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com<http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=maxx at izmudd.com>
> >
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com<http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
> >
> > Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I am still in
> > legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.
> >
> > This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual sessions.
> In
> > one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with sobriety,
> and
> > how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that
> > pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment, but, it
> does
> > 'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is a decent
> > human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who kept asking
> me
> > to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't surf the
> > internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.
> >
> > Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical,
> > intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under his belt.
> I'm
> > going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great report by
> > Bastiaans.
> >
> > Please tell me what y'all think I could d
> >  o. This seems like a great opportunity. Open to all recommendations, I
> see
> > him tomorrow.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > row, row, row your boat
> > gently down the stream
> > beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly
> > life is but a dream
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> >   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> > (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> >   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 09:26:16 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 08:26:16 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] gun rights
In-Reply-To: <9614CDAB34C34F8991EEDFC377829A29@ShilohPC>
References: <9614CDAB34C34F8991EEDFC377829A29@ShilohPC>
Message-ID: <0BA3C161-43CB-4DA0-8976-672636485253@gmail.com>

Yea, it's a cuture thing too..

Don't get me wrong. I don't love hand guns..

  if fuckers got fully autos hand guns unless your one bad son of a  
bitch
With a hand gun, it won't matter..

You"ll have 32 hole in you before he got one in him.

I don't not love hand guns..

I do not love the damage they can do to poeples lives..
But so can drugs!!!!

I would at least like to have a 1% chance then none at all..

I think if more poeple that were trained "respect" for them, had them  
when these school shooting happen, there just might be less order  
placed for body bags..

And yes, it might just include some, yes folks, deadly force, yes, it  
sure might..

To stop these out of control kids with no respect for life..

Kill a few to save a whole school, what's wrong with that???

I'm sorry but when these fuckers do that type of shit, I don't believe  
in killing and lawlessness, but the bucks got to stop some where!!

And somebody got man the fuck up and do it!!!

I believe in guns..
It's in our "bill of rights"

It's what this country was founded on..
But sone where it got fucked up.

I understand poeple getting upset over a love one dying from guns..

But if my mother got blown away today, I would not want tighter gun  
control..

I would want more poeple around her, at the time of death to arm them  
selfs, to "help" provent shit like that from happening again.. By the  
time the cops get there, YOUR DEAD!!!!!!!
U dont have time for that!!

You see, no body wants to man the fuck up!!

When poeple see crime happening, everybody wants to turn there head.

Hey, it's not my place getting cleaned out.. Doesn't effect me..

Yea, not "today"

I think there should be a training course you have to go through to  
get a
Gun in this country
But above all else, respect for living things should be taught above  
all else..

Not what just what the law say about it.
Not just that it's illegal, which they should teach that also..

But true respect for a living thing..
Not a scare tactic..


J

On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:08 PM, "sv" <shilohver at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Jeremy
> Perhaps instead of comparing the United States to Mexico, you should  
> look at your other neighbor Canada, who is by light years more  
> culturally similar. Handguns are outlawed in Canada, and we have  
> fewer murders in the entire country than the city of New Orleans (a  
> relatively small city).
> PeaceOut
> Shiloh
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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From ibogamail at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 10:21:32 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt S)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 08:21:32 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <8999cc760909120003i2bb0a0d2jc0f42f90bd479587@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<8999cc760909120003i2bb0a0d2jc0f42f90bd479587@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>

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From klausmkl at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 10:54:32 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:54:32 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>
References: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<8999cc760909120003i2bb0a0d2jc0f42f90bd479587@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7870BA4-204B-4A17-BEC5-143320C5BE51@gmail.com>

I have found that do whatever works. If Meetings work, go. If they  
don't work, don't go. I personally go once in a while. Like 1  a  
month ,if that. Meetings never kept me sober. I have done the 12  
steps. Will I ever do them again, no.  I am not a big fan of Bill W or  
the AA mantra. I mean they shove those 12 steps down your throat from  
the very beginning of the meeting. Here are the steps we took. Bull,  
the steps did absolutely nothing for me. No wonder so many people  
never return. However like Matt pointed out. Meetings can help in long  
term sobriety. Meetings remind me that if I start up again I will have  
to go back to those darn meetings. If anything I will go to a meeting  
if I am bored nothing more. If I am living a well rounded life AA is a  
past memory.
Michael L
klausmkl at gmail.com





On Sep 12, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Matt S wrote:

> I find it useful for the long term staying clean. Ibogaine is  
> unsurpassed for getting clean, but after awhile, for me anyway, I  
> tended to drift back into the same mindset that had me getting  
> loaded in the first place.  There was, and still is, a lot of work  
> that needs to get done regarding how I think and interpret reality  
> and NA is good for that.  Plus I still use certain so called  
> psychedelics and a great many people in NA know it.  So what?  I  
> finally get to show up in my life in a way where I can have self  
> respect which was not something I could ever do when I was getting  
> loaded.  I have done ibogaine and iboga treatments since getting  
> clean but the high dose experience is just not something I can do  
> very often at all, like maybe every 5 to 10 years or something.  So  
> for me I need something else to help me work through my shit without  
> getting loaded.
>
> For example, I just found out about a month or 2 ago that two of my  
> local grocery stores sell bulk poppy seeds.  I've known for years  
> that you can make a tea from them and get a good buzz (never done it  
> but I have heard/read about it) but when I saw them at the store  
> suddenly it seemed extremely convenient to get an opiate buzz if I  
> wanted to.  And with how stressful my life feels sometimes with a  
> new baby and not enough sleep which leads to more arguing with my  
> wife and the fact that I am unemployed and living off of savings,  
> well something like that sounds kind of appealing sometimes.  So  
> having people who know my history and propensity to abuse drugs and  
> being able to talk to them about it helps a lot without having to go  
> through the ordeal of a full ibo treatment.
>
> Matt
>
> fallen eden wrote:
>>
>> I think Howard's Dossier is a great site (www.ibogaine.org), lots  
>> of info all over the board with history, treatment methods, general  
>> stuff for the layperson, cool technical stuff too (if you can read  
>> through it). That might be one of the good basic websites to give  
>> along with the others mentioned.
>>
>> I just couldn't stand AA or NA when I tried going to meetings after  
>> my first treatment.. it was just so depressing. I couldn't really  
>> talk about my experience because there had already been a few  
>> people mentioning how "bad" psychedelics were.. I felt isolated,  
>> and it reminded me too much of what "back then" felt like- trying  
>> to detox the "normal" way. I was so happy, but couldn't really  
>> explain how staying clean "just came to me" in my mind and it felt  
>> so easy and I felt so joyful.. no one would have understood.. But I  
>> know 12-step works for some folks, so I say go for whatever works
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Thanks guys.
>>
>> Jim, I will be careful. It's not really 'therapy', though they are  
>> bound by those rules.
>>
>> Cal, he doesn't 'do internet' that well. That's why I wanted stuff  
>> to print out. I will provide him with sites, however.
>>
>> Feelin' mushy about this place.
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>> From: cal que
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>> Sent: 11 Sep '09 17:12
>>
>> http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html
>>
>> http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml
>>
>> http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm
>>
>> maybe you could turn him on to a few sites?
>> hope this helps, funny how these opportunities happen ;)
>>
>> On 9/11/09, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Bev,
>> >
>> > He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but
>> > remember he get his paycheck from the state.  I would
>> > wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
>> > book.  Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
>> > a nice Christmas present.  Remember, Fed, state and
>> > local governments do not like Ibo.  Really the 'teacher'
>> > can not like it or endorse it.  However, should he quit and
>> > get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
>> > to good use.  And some of the students may check it
>> > out.  Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
>> > the new names. LOL
>> >
>> > I know alcoholics that tried so
>> > hard but were never able to quit.  It seems Ibo is the
>> > last resort.  If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
>> > it would put 70% out of business.  What we need is a
>> > Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
>> > we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
>> > like he did with aspartame.  Rummy is the one who
>> > called his markers and had the FDA  approve aspartame.
>> > Fun facts to know and tell.
>> >
>> > Your doing great Bev, keep it up.
>> >
>> > Best to ya,
>> >
>> >   - JIM
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>
>> > Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
>> >
>> > Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I am  
>> still in
>> > legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.
>> >
>> > This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual  
>> sessions. In
>> > one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with  
>> sobriety, and
>> > how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that
>> > pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment,  
>> but, it does
>> > 'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is a  
>> decent
>> > human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who kept  
>> asking me
>> > to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't  
>> surf the
>> > internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical,
>> > intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under his  
>> belt. I'm
>> > going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great  
>> report by
>> > Bastiaans.
>> >
>> > Please tell me what y'all think I could d
>> >  o. This seems like a great opportunity. Open to all  
>> recommendations, I see
>> > him tomorrow.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > row, row, row your boat
>> > gently down the stream
>> > beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly
>> > life is but a dream
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> >
>> >   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> > (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> >   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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>>
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>>
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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Sat Sep 12 11:46:21 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:46:21 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] re gun legislation
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0909112300x5b5d094dx70379d44023d0850@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50FC7A683E3F40C094E7F5C8B12DB03C@ShilohPC>
	<108a1b7d0909112300x5b5d094dx70379d44023d0850@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AABC24D.9000601@mtciep.com>

Very good James!

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





James Forristal wrote:
> Privileges are taken and given.. Rights are not!  ;).
>
> I could give a shit less about having a gun but as for the society
> issues I'm more interested in the illness than I am the symptoms..
> ie... Violence.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> On 9/11/09, sv <shilohver at shaw.ca> wrote:
>   
>> Of course handguns can be purchased illegally in any city..but it does make
>> it a lot harder especially for the regular joe blow. It is really a better
>> system. I'm ok with not having the right to carry a hand gun. Someone would
>> probably be dead now.
>>     
>
>   

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 11:47:47 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:47:47 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>
References: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<8999cc760909120003i2bb0a0d2jc0f42f90bd479587@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2A9D2569-E2B8-4537-93C1-56C1F4568647@gmail.com>

Man, opaites as apealing as they might be..

Are not the answer..

It's a hell, that you don't want if you don't really need it..

I need it, I have pain..

I hate it..
I hate the label you get..

And you get it regardless of why?? You take it..
It's extremely sad that it's that way..

I've tried to deal with my pain without pain meds, and there just no  
way..

I can take pain, but this shit in my fucking privite area!!!!!

It's getting better, but it's just extremely
Slow...

It's getting there, but it's slow as shit..
It's never going to be compeletly gone..  But, I believe iit will be  
better one day,, but not totally gone..

It might be, but I can't think that way..
It's too easy to go back to eating what ever I want and go back to  
drinking alcohol with friends every weekend, which is not healthy..  
Not with this crap I got it's not..

If your off opiates my adivce is to stay the fuck off them!!
They rob you of your energy!!!!!
They lower your natural production hormones!!!!!
They lower your ability to handle stress!!!!!!!

I would "not"
Be on them if I was not forced to be on them!!

Poeple don't understand that kind of pain..

This is not joint pain. I can deal with pain.. But not this shit..

It makes me so Madd that poeple think it's a BS to get pain meds,  
which I'm sure poeple do.. All the time..

I'm not judgement of poeple that want to use opiates.

But, I do tell poeple the truth about them.
They just not good for every day use..

I'm trying to not use benzos everyday to sleep..
They suck also, but they work..

Your lucky your not on them, if your off them, I'd try to stay off  
them if at all possible..

Your not missing anything I'll tell you that

I don't even like taking them..

In fact, I hate them.. I don't even care for the opiates buzz like I  
use to..

I pretty much hate it now..

It's in the way.. I see it as in the way now

It's something in the way of me working like a normal person..

But that's meds of "all" types that do that..
Medication is not good for you, not everyday it's not..
And phara drugs are horrible on your body long term.

I'm doing my best to heal my self, so I dont need the dumb shit the  
rest of my life..

J



On Sep 12, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Matt S <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

> I find it useful for the long term staying clean. Ibogaine is  
> unsurpassed for getting clean, but after awhile, for me anyway, I  
> tended to drift back into the same mindset that had me getting  
> loaded in the first place.  There was, and still is, a lot of work  
> that needs to get done regarding how I think and interpret reality  
> and NA is good for that.  Plus I still use certain so called  
> psychedelics and a great many people in NA know it.  So what?  I  
> finally get to show up in my life in a way where I can have self  
> respect which was not something I could ever do when I was getting  
> loaded.  I have done ibogaine and iboga treatments since getting  
> clean but the high dose experience is just not something I can do  
> very often at all, like maybe every 5 to 10 years or something.  So  
> for me I need something else to help me work through my shit without  
> getting loaded.
>
> For example, I just found out about a month or 2 ago that two of my  
> local grocery stores sell bulk poppy seeds.  I've known for years  
> that you can make a tea from them and get a good buzz (never done it  
> but I have heard/read about it) but when I saw them at the store  
> suddenly it seemed extremely convenient to get an opiate buzz if I  
> wanted to.  And with how stressful my life feels sometimes with a  
> new baby and not enough sleep which leads to more arguing with my  
> wife and the fact that I am unemployed and living off of savings,  
> well something like that sounds kind of appealing sometimes.  So  
> having people who know my history and propensity to abuse drugs and  
> being able to talk to them about it helps a lot without having to go  
> through the ordeal of a full ibo treatment.
>
> Matt
>
> fallen eden wrote:
>>
>> I think Howard's Dossier is a great site (www.ibogaine.org), lots  
>> of info all over the board with history, treatment methods, general  
>> stuff for the layperson, cool technical stuff too (if you can read  
>> through it). That might be one of the good basic websites to give  
>> along with the others mentioned.
>>
>> I just couldn't stand AA or NA when I tried going to meetings after  
>> my first treatment.. it was just so depressing. I couldn't really  
>> talk about my experience because there had already been a few  
>> people mentioning how "bad" psychedelics were.. I felt isolated,  
>> and it reminded me too much of what "back then" felt like- trying  
>> to detox the "normal" way. I was so happy, but couldn't really  
>> explain how staying clean "just came to me" in my mind and it felt  
>> so easy and I felt so joyful.. no one would have understood.. But I  
>> know 12-step works for some folks, so I say go for whatever works
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Thanks guys.
>>
>> Jim, I will be careful. It's not really 'therapy', though they are  
>> bound by those rules.
>>
>> Cal, he doesn't 'do internet' that well. That's why I wanted stuff  
>> to print out. I will provide him with sites, however.
>>
>> Feelin' mushy about this place.
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>> From: cal que
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>> Sent: 11 Sep '09 17:12
>>
>> http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html
>>
>> http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml
>>
>> http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm
>>
>> maybe you could turn him on to a few sites?
>> hope this helps, funny how these opportunities happen ;)
>>
>> On 9/11/09, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Bev,
>> >
>> > He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but
>> > remember he get his paycheck from the state.  I would
>> > wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
>> > book.  Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
>> > a nice Christmas present.  Remember, Fed, state and
>> > local governments do not like Ibo.  Really the 'teacher'
>> > can not like it or endorse it.  However, should he quit and
>> > get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
>> > to good use.  And some of the students may check it
>> > out.  Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
>> > the new names. LOL
>> >
>> > I know alcoholics that tried so
>> > hard but were never able to quit.  It seems Ibo is the
>> > last resort.  If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
>> > it would put 70% out of business.  What we need is a
>> > Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
>> > we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
>> > like he did with aspartame.  Rummy is the one who
>> > called his markers and had the FDA  approve aspartame.
>> > Fun facts to know and tell.
>> >
>> > Your doing great Bev, keep it up.
>> >
>> > Best to ya,
>> >
>> >   - JIM
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>
>> > Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
>> >
>> > Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I am  
>> still in
>> > legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.
>> >
>> > This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual  
>> sessions. In
>> > one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with  
>> sobriety, and
>> > how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that
>> > pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment,  
>> but, it does
>> > 'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is a  
>> decent
>> > human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who kept  
>> asking me
>> > to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't  
>> surf the
>> > internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical,
>> > intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under his  
>> belt. I'm
>> > going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great  
>> report by
>> > Bastiaans.
>> >
>> > Please tell me what y'all think I could d
>> >  o. This seems like a great opportunity. Open to all  
>> recommendations, I see
>> > him tomorrow.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > row, row, row your boat
>> > gently down the stream
>> > beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly
>> > life is but a dream
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> >
>> >   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> > (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> >   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
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>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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From edwardw at mtciep.com  Sat Sep 12 11:55:17 2009
From: edwardw at mtciep.com (Edward A. Weissbard)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:55:17 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>
References: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>	<8999cc760909120003i2bb0a0d2jc0f42f90bd479587@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AABC465.2080706@mtciep.com>

Thanks for the experience Matt.  I was just curious in what context you 
continue to use certain so called "psychedelics".  Would it be in more 
of "ritual/spiritual-tool" sense, or more recreational.  I know those 
two terms can be relative. I'm just curious, since I have only just 
started to use these in a "ritual/spiritual" sense as well(at least 
attempting), and was looking for some direction.

By the way, I use Kava to take off the stress, it may be a better 
alternative. :o)

Good stuff from here:

http://www.nakamalathome.com/

Thanks,

___________________
Edward 
edwardw at mtciep.com





Matt S wrote:
> I find it useful for the long term staying clean. Ibogaine is 
> unsurpassed for getting clean, but after awhile, for me anyway, I 
> tended to drift back into the same mindset that had me getting loaded 
> in the first place.  There was, and still is, a lot of work that needs 
> to get done regarding how I think and interpret reality and NA is good 
> for that.  Plus I still use certain so called psychedelics and a great 
> many people in NA know it.  So what?  I finally get to show up in my 
> life in a way where I can have self respect which was not something I 
> could ever do when I was getting loaded.  I have done ibogaine and 
> iboga treatments since getting clean but the high dose experience is 
> just not something I can do very often at all, like maybe every 5 to 
> 10 years or something.  So for me I need something else to help me 
> work through my shit without getting loaded. 
>
> For example, I just found out about a month or 2 ago that two of my 
> local grocery stores sell bulk poppy seeds.  I've known for years that 
> you can make a tea from them and get a good buzz (never done it but I 
> have heard/read about it) but when I saw them at the store suddenly it 
> seemed extremely convenient to get an opiate buzz if I wanted to.  And 
> with how stressful my life feels sometimes with a new baby and not 
> enough sleep which leads to more arguing with my wife and the fact 
> that I am unemployed and living off of savings, well something like 
> that sounds kind of appealing sometimes.  So having people who know my 
> history and propensity to abuse drugs and being able to talk to them 
> about it helps a lot without having to go through the ordeal of a full 
> ibo treatment.
>
> Matt
>
> fallen eden wrote:
>> I think Howard's Dossier is a great site (www.ibogaine.org 
>> <http://www.ibogaine.org/>), lots of info all over the board with 
>> history, treatment methods, general stuff for the layperson, cool 
>> technical stuff too (if you can read through it). That might be one 
>> of the good basic websites to give along with the others mentioned.
>>  
>> I just couldn't stand AA or NA when I tried going to meetings after 
>> my first treatment.. it was just so depressing. I couldn't really 
>> talk about my experience because there had already been a few 
>> people mentioning how "bad" psychedelics were.. I felt isolated, and 
>> it reminded me too much of what "back then" felt like- trying to 
>> detox the "normal" way. I was so happy, but couldn't really explain 
>> how staying clean "just came to me" in my mind and it felt so easy 
>> and I felt so joyful.. no one would have understood.. But I know 
>> 12-step works for some folks, so I say go for whatever works
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, beverly maxx jackson 
>> <maxx at izmudd.com <mailto:maxx at izmudd.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Thanks guys.
>>
>>     Jim, I will be careful. It's not really 'therapy', though they
>>     are bound by those rules.
>>
>>     Cal, he doesn't 'do internet' that well. That's why I wanted
>>     stuff to print out. I will provide him with sites, however.
>>
>>     Feelin' mushy about this place.
>>
>>     B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>     	-------Original Message-------
>>     From: cal que
>>     Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>>     Sent: 11 Sep '09 17:12
>>
>>     http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html
>>
>>     http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml
>>
>>     http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm
>>
>>     maybe you could turn him on to a few sites?
>>     hope this helps, funny how these opportunities happen ;)
>>
>>     On 9/11/09, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com
>>     <http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=jimhadey3 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > Hi Bev,
>>     >
>>     > He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but
>>     > remember he get his paycheck from the state.  I would
>>     > wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
>>     > book.  Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
>>     > a nice Christmas present.  Remember, Fed, state and
>>     > local governments do not like Ibo.  Really the 'teacher'
>>     > can not like it or endorse it.  However, should he quit and
>>     > get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
>>     > to good use.  And some of the students may check it
>>     > out.  Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
>>     > the new names. LOL
>>     >
>>     > I know alcoholics that tried so
>>     > hard but were never able to quit.  It seems Ibo is the
>>     > last resort.  If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
>>     > it would put 70% out of business.  What we need is a
>>     > Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
>>     > we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
>>     > like he did with aspartame.  Rummy is the one who
>>     > called his markers and had the FDA  approve aspartame.
>>     > Fun facts to know and tell.
>>     >
>>     > Your doing great Bev, keep it up.
>>     >
>>     > Best to ya,
>>     >
>>     >   - JIM
>>     >
>>     > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com
>>     <http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=maxx at izmudd.com>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com
>>     <http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=maxx at izmudd.com>>
>>     > Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>>     > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>     <http://mbox.izmudd.com/compose.php?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>     > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
>>     >
>>     > Last year I got a DUI. My blood alcohol level was such that I
>>     am still in
>>     > legally required 'treatment' for my DUI/alcohol abuse.
>>     >
>>     > This treatment is a school with groups, classes and individual
>>     sessions. In
>>     > one of my groups last week, I was asked how I was doing with
>>     sobriety, and
>>     > how I was staying sober without AA (I'm pretty vocally against that
>>     > pedagogical, monotheistic, sexist, shaming mode of treatment,
>>     but, it does
>>     > 'work' for some). I got to mention Iboga. The counselor, who is
>>     a decent
>>     > human being, even let me write it on the board for folk who
>>     kept asking me
>>     > to repeat it. He's asking me for some written info, he doesn't
>>     surf the
>>     > internet, I am quite excited to be able to give him some.
>>     >
>>     > Does anyone have any recommendations? He's no MD/PhD, a practical,
>>     > intelligent ex junkie with an AA and some certificates under
>>     his belt. I'm
>>     > going to give him the book 'Iboga', plus a printout of a great
>>     report by
>>     > Bastiaans.
>>     >
>>     > Please tell me what y'all think I could d
>>     >  o. This seems like a great opportunity. Open to all
>>     recommendations, I see
>>     > him tomorrow.
>>     >
>>     > Thanks!
>>     >
>>     > row, row, row your boat
>>     > gently down the stream
>>     > beverly, beverly, beverly, beverly
>>     > life is but a dream
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>     >
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From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 11:57:20 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:57:20 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
In-Reply-To: <A7870BA4-204B-4A17-BEC5-143320C5BE51@gmail.com>
References: <20090912032638.18794.qmail@s464.sureserver.com>
	<8999cc760909120003i2bb0a0d2jc0f42f90bd479587@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AABAE6C.9020804@gmail.com>
	<A7870BA4-204B-4A17-BEC5-143320C5BE51@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82AE72E1-BD48-4A61-99B4-FFCE0BEDCD66@gmail.com>

They can help..

But those poeple are fucken crazy!!


They think everybody is like them!!

They think it has to be done just like them, or your out casted..

And like Simon.

I went to a meeting a messed up..
And was treated like I had AIDS..

They were idiots..


I had chonic pain..

Didnt understand why I was crying, IT WAS THE FUCKING PAIN!!!

Poeple are fucking idiots!!!!

I won't go back either..

But, I know they do help some poeple

I do know they do help poeple..

But they judge way too much!!!!!

But it happens, you can't go through those ass holes with becoming  
like them...

It's impossible..

But, my doctor, If it worked for him, and it keeps working,

I would never want him to quit..

If it helps you, go,  do not go..

I think it's one extreme for another..

But i see both sides..

J






On Sep 12, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have found that do whatever works. If Meetings work, go. If they  
> don't work, don't go. I personally go once in a while. Like 1  a  
> month ,if that. Meetings never kept me sober. I have done the 12  
> steps. Will I ever do them again, no.  I am not a big fan of Bill W  
> or the AA mantra. I mean they shove those 12 steps down your throat  
> from the very beginning of the meeting. Here are the steps we took.  
> Bull, the steps did absolutely nothing for me. No wonder so many  
> people never return. However like Matt pointed out. Meetings can  
> help in long term sobriety. Meetings remind me that if I start up  
> again I will have to go back to those darn meetings. If anything I  
> will go to a meeting if I am bored nothing more. If I am living a  
> well rounded life AA is a past memory.
> Michael L
> klausmkl at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Matt S wrote:
>
>> I find it useful for the long term staying clean. Ibogaine is  
>> unsurpassed for getting clean, but after awhile, for me anyway, I  
>> tended to drift back into the same mindset that had me getting  
>> loaded in the first place.  There was, and still is, a lot of work  
>> that needs to get done regarding how I think and interpret reality  
>> and NA is good for that.  Plus I still use certain so called  
>> psychedelics and a great many people in NA know it.  So what?  I  
>> finally get to show up in my life in a way where I can have self  
>> respect which was not something I could ever do when I was getting  
>> loaded.  I have done ibogaine and iboga treatments since getting  
>> clean but the high dose experience is just not something I can do  
>> very often at all, like maybe every 5 to 10 years or something.  So  
>> for me I need something else to help me work through my shit  
>> without getting loaded.
>>
>> For example, I just found out about a month or 2 ago that two of my  
>> local grocery stores sell bulk poppy seeds.  I've known for years  
>> that you can make a tea from them and get a good buzz (never done  
>> it but I have heard/read about it) but when I saw them at the store  
>> suddenly it seemed extremely convenient to get an opiate buzz if I  
>> wanted to.  And with how stressful my life feels sometimes with a  
>> new baby and not enough sleep which leads to more arguing with my  
>> wife and the fact that I am unemployed and living off of savings,  
>> well something like that sounds kind of appealing sometimes.  So  
>> having people who know my history and propensity to abuse drugs and  
>> being able to talk to them about it helps a lot without having to  
>> go through the ordeal of a full ibo treatment.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> fallen eden wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Howard's Dossier is a great site (www.ibogaine.org), lots  
>>> of info all over the board with history, treatment methods,  
>>> general stuff for the layperson, cool technical stuff too (if you  
>>> can read through it). That might be one of the good basic websites  
>>> to give along with the others mentioned.
>>>
>>> I just couldn't stand AA or NA when I tried going to meetings  
>>> after my first treatment.. it was just so depressing. I couldn't  
>>> really talk about my experience because there had already been a  
>>> few people mentioning how "bad" psychedelics were.. I felt  
>>> isolated, and it reminded me too much of what "back then" felt  
>>> like- trying to detox the "normal" way. I was so happy, but  
>>> couldn't really explain how staying clean "just came to me" in my  
>>> mind and it felt so easy and I felt so joyful.. no one would have  
>>> understood.. But I know 12-step works for some folks, so I say go  
>>> for whatever works
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com 
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks guys.
>>>
>>> Jim, I will be careful. It's not really 'therapy', though they are  
>>> bound by those rules.
>>>
>>> Cal, he doesn't 'do internet' that well. That's why I wanted stuff  
>>> to print out. I will provide him with sites, however.
>>>
>>> Feelin' mushy about this place.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------Original Message-------
>>> From: cal que
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>>> Sent: 11 Sep '09 17:12
>>>
>>> http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/index.html
>>>
>>> http://www.erowid.org/plabasicsnts/iboga/iboga_.shtml
>>>
>>> http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm
>>>
>>> maybe you could turn him on to a few sites?
>>> hope this helps, funny how these opportunities happen ;)
>>>
>>> On 9/11/09, Jim Hadey <jimhadey3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi Bev,
>>> >
>>> > He may be a very nice fellow and very open minded but
>>> > remember he get his paycheck from the state.  I would
>>> > wait until the class if over for you and then give him the
>>> > book.  Or if you are still there at Christmas it would make
>>> > a nice Christmas present.  Remember, Fed, state and
>>> > local governments do not like Ibo.  Really the 'teacher'
>>> > can not like it or endorse it.  However, should he quit and
>>> > get another position elsewhere he may be able to put it
>>> > to good use.  And some of the students may check it
>>> > out.  Watch the forum and see if you recognize any of
>>> > the new names. LOL
>>> >
>>> > I know alcoholics that tried so
>>> > hard but were never able to quit.  It seems Ibo is the
>>> > last resort.  If they were ever able to open an Ibo clinic
>>> > it would put 70% out of business.  What we need is a
>>> > Ibo lobbyist or if we ever got enough money maybe
>>> > we could have Rumsfield get it passed by the FDA
>>> > like he did with aspartame.  Rummy is the one who
>>> > called his markers and had the FDA  approve aspartame.
>>> > Fun facts to know and tell.
>>> >
>>> > Your doing great Bev, keep it up.
>>> >
>>> > Best to ya,
>>> >
>>> >   - JIM
>>> >
>>> > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > From: beverly maxx jackson <maxx at izmudd.com>
>>> > Subject: [Ibogaine] 12 step treatment providers and ibo
>>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
>>> >
>>> > Last yea