[Ibogaine] ibogaine for benzo detox?

James Forristal psychonaut101 at gmail.com
Thu Nov 26 18:10:59 EST 2009


The boomarang effect of molecules that sedate... Oh joy!

On 11/26/09, Edward A. Weissbard <edwardw at mtciep.com> wrote:
> I have to agree Jim, the after effects of Phenobarbital is severe
> depression....not very pleasant.
>
> ___________________
> Edward
> edwardw at mtciep.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Hadey wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Randy,
>>
>> I have taken pheno barb a couple times and it resulted in SEVERE
>> depression.  I took less than the amount your suppose to take.  A
>> couple of my buddies got some and had the same experience.
>>
>> So as a caution   IF YOU TAKE PHENOBARBITAL AND YOU FIND
>>                             YOUR DEPRESSED - QUIT TAKING THEM AT ONCE.
>>
>> Dilantin may  now mix with Ibo but I took it for 4 or 5 years and had no
>> problem except once or twice when I took them on an empty stomach,
>> but they go well with a glass of water.  I had no problems at all with
>> them.
>>
>> Guess it goes to show that we're all different.
>>
>> Best to ya Randy,
>>
>>   - JIM
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 11/25/09, Randy Faulconer /<bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>>     From: Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>>     Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine for benzo detox?
>>     To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>     Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:07 PM
>>
>>              I've been thinking. (it hurt but I did it) Why hasn't
>>     this issue been really looked at hard. I know that Dr Kamlett was
>>     trying to help somebody a few years ago, (God bless you Ron I hope
>>     you are still with us), but it was never
>>     really.................fixed........ ...........or figured out
>>     .................or whatever. I've treated alcoholics that were
>>     addicted to Heroin and used Pheno Barb to keep the seizures at bay
>>     with sucess. Why wouldn't that work for benzo's?? I know that it's
>>     not a good idea to use Dilantin, or so I was told by Patrick, and
>>     I believe anything he tells me concerning this kind of thing. Well
>>     actually, even when Patrick rants it is usually stuffed with
>>     truth, but I digress.
>>             Pheno barb is a pretty good drug used in the context of
>>     detox. I've been there myself. It worked for me back
>>     in.....................uh....................last decade
>>     sometime.................like maybe 1995 or so. I wouldn't think
>>     it would hurt anyway, if the dosage was kept to 50 mgs or so.
>>
>>            I wish some of the doctors that used to post would have
>>     something to say here.
>>
>>              Where are you Dr Tom?? I still think I could stay with
>>     you shooting offhand. He He
>>
>>              Peace Love and Research
>>                               Randy
>>
>>     On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:56 PM, James Forristal
>>     <psychonaut101 at gmail.com </mc/compose?to=psychonaut101 at gmail.com>>
>>     wrote:
>>
>>         Check out picamilon, its a gaba molecule with a B vitamin
>>         attached to
>>         it and it much more effective at passing the blood/brain
>>         barrier than
>>         gaba.  I believe an effective dose is like 100mg.  Could be much
>>         easier on your system to process.
>>
>>         On 11/22/09, fallen eden <falleneden1 at gmail.com
>>         </mc/compose?to=falleneden1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>         > Hey J,
>>         >
>>         > Patrick is saying that it's more ethical for a Western type,
>>         medical clinic
>>         > to use ibogaine HCl because it is *measurable*, and
>>         therefore *testable*.
>>         > Extract is always different- somebody can say, "I took 2g
>>         TA" but that
>>         > really doesn't tell you anything about what the person
>>         really took.. 2g of a
>>         > mix mash of a bunch of alkaloids at relatives strengths..
>>         who knows? It's
>>         > incredibly difficult to compare "extract" to HCl in a
>>         research study because
>>         > extracts are always different from eachother.. However
>>         that's not to say
>>         > that TA doesn't work; it's just very hard to study, so the
>>         idea is that most
>>         > clinics would be using HCl instead because that way they
>>         know exactly what
>>         > they gave you.
>>         >
>>         > But, I can tell you that NOT all Western style medical
>>         clinics are using
>>         > just HCl; I can name at least one that likes to use both..
>>         >
>>         > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:50 PM, j <hardworktodo at yahoo.com
>>         </mc/compose?to=hardworktodo at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>         >
>>         >>   Can you please clarify, justify, or in some way support
>>         the following:
>>         >>
>>         >> ". . .All treatment clinics I am aware of, which include
>>         western-style
>>         >> medical supervision, are utilizing ibogaine HCl (doing
>>         anything other than
>>         >> this, is relatively unethical if you claim to be a
>>         medically-based
>>         >> treatment
>>         >> center).. ."
>>         >>
>>         >> Thanks
>>         >>
>>         >> Jeff
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> --- On *Thu, 11/19/09, Patrick K. Kroupa
>>         <digital at phantom.com </mc/compose?to=digital at phantom.com>>* wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital at phantom.com
>>         </mc/compose?to=digital at phantom.com>>
>>         >>
>>         >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine for benzo detox?
>>         >> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>         </mc/compose?to=ibogaine at mindvox.com>>
>>         >> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 12:09 AM
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> On Nov 18, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Ingrid Besserton wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >> > Could someone please give me a straight forward answer? I
>>         have asked
>>         >> > this
>>         >> same question of 3 different treatment centers and got
>>         completely
>>         >> different
>>         >> answers.
>>         >> >
>>         >> > Will ibogaine work on benzo addiction or won't it?
>>         >> >
>>         >> > Not meaning to add to your email Patrick but I cc'd you,
>>         because so many
>>         >> people suggested I ask you this, but you have not once
>>         answered any of my
>>         >> email.
>>         >> >
>>         >> > Thank you!
>>         >>
>>         >> Ibogaine is an inverse-agonist at GABA receptors.  It *will
>>         not* reset
>>         >> benzo tolerance in humans.  This information is presently
>>         unpublished, and
>>         >> the details are covered by non-disclosures, and unlikely to
>>         exist in the
>>         >> public domain, until such a time that someone else
>>         reproduces the same
>>         >> research, and has it published in a peer-reviewed journal.
>>         >>
>>         >> However ... the "extract" sure seems to (reset benzo
>>         tolerance).  What I'm
>>         >> talking about in this case are the materials ostensibly
>>         created by Carl
>>         >> Nyblom-Waltenburg, commonly known as "indra."
>>         >>
>>         >> The Indra materials are very old, and while all of it
>>         originates in the
>>         >> same, large lot, they have been split up into different
>>         batches, and
>>         >> landed
>>         >> in all corners of planet Earth, while being subjected to
>>         random handling,
>>         >> conditions, exposure to light and air, and the passage of
>>         decades.
>>         >>
>>         >> Spinning up "indra" on a GC/MS results in actual ibogaine
>>         content, that is
>>         >> all over the map, ranging from an absolute high of around
>>         12% ibogaine, to
>>         >> a
>>         >> low of only 2% ... which is, negligible.
>>         >>
>>         >> What's interesting about the materials is ... [X] GM will
>>         pretty
>>         >> consistently do Exactly The Same Thing (hit a reset on drug
>>         dependence),
>>         >> across multiple samples and individuals, despite the wide
>>         variance in
>>         >> actual
>>         >> ibogaine content.
>>         >>
>>         >> And that ... really doesn't make much sense.
>>         >>
>>         >> So ... what the fuck is it doing exactly and HOW is it working?
>>         >>
>>         >> That's an interesting question, whose answer lies in: well,
>>         ibogaine is
>>         >> only ONE of the indole alkaloids found within Tabernanthe
>>         iboga (while we
>>         >> have found many possible mechanisms of action, we STILL do
>>         not actually
>>         >> understand HOW it works, and by "we" I mean to say: Western
>>         civilization
>>         >> and
>>         >> that science type thing), obviously there's a lot of other
>>         stuff in there,
>>         >> which produces some unknown synergy, most of which is
>>         completely untested
>>         >> and has not been subjected to any Western-science style
>>         research.
>>         >>
>>         >> The various "extracts" -- other than "indra" -- have
>>         multiple issues,
>>         >> starting at the beginning: extracted from WHAT, HOW, and
>>         containing WHAT
>>         >> EXACTLY?  No two answers are ever the same, and I have no
>>         personal
>>         >> experience utilizing extracts other than "indra" for the
>>         purposes of benzo
>>         >> detox.  From anecdotal reports, some extracts appear to
>>         have subjective
>>         >> efficacy, others do not.
>>         >>
>>         >> For even greater entertainment value: ibogaine HCl which is
>>         at LOWER than
>>         >> 98.2% - 99% purity, also seems to have some efficacy vs.
>>         benzos.  Go
>>         >> figure.
>>         >>
>>         >> "Does 'ibogaine' work for benzo detox?"  Sometimes, depends
>>         on the
>>         >> "ibogaine" in question.  Does relatively pure ibogaine HCl
>>         work?  No.  It
>>         >> is, however, the absolutely best thing going for resetting
>>         opioid
>>         >> tolerance.
>>         >>
>>         >> Your milage may vary, some settling of contents does occur
>>         during
>>         >> shipping,
>>         >> the bag is half-full, not half-empty.
>>         >>
>>         >> "Can I check myself into a treatment clinic and get reset
>>         off benzos?"
>>         >> No,
>>         >> you can't.  And if they tell you it'll work, they are
>>         either sadly
>>         >> misinformed, engaging in some dramatic wishful thinking, or
>>         lying to you.
>>         >> All treatment clinics I am aware of, which include
>>         western-style medical
>>         >> supervision, are utilizing ibogaine HCl (doing anything
>>         other than this,
>>         >> is
>>         >> relatively unethical if you claim to be a medically-based
>>         treatment
>>         >> center).
>>         >>
>>         >> B'okay?
>>         >>
>>         >> Patrick
>>         >>
>>         >>
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