From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 00:50:06 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:50:06 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D53BCB99-D7D9-421C-9D36-DF29A8F6FBC2@gmail.com>

hello list,

Why is this great for mexico? Have you ever been there. It is filthy  
and corrupt. Last thing they need is opium legalization. Go visit down  
there and see for yourself. Meth too. No Drug education which needs to  
follow the legalization . Do you really know what you are talking  
about ?  I was involved in the drug war front line. Mexico made a huge  
mistake.
On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:51 AM, James Forristal wrote:

> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's order  
> stands on this mess.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
> would strong arm them????
>
>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>               Randy
>
> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hola:
> >
> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of  
> opium, 50
> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD,  
> 40 mgrs
> > methamphetamine.
> >
> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order  
> of
> > president Bush.
> >
> > http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
> >
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090430/2679f2c0/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 01:01:28 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:01:28 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <80EC4454-7517-4D27-9025-307C81585751@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<80EC4454-7517-4D27-9025-307C81585751@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECC5EDED-76F4-473C-BDDD-31158BF2B3E0@gmail.com>

You are a true idiot. Yes Bush was the worst. I DISAGREE With Iraq.  
However your stupidity is reflected in your lack of Patriotism. If you  
don't like it here move. Obama whom I VOTED for will be out in ! term.  
Im an Economist and  I will tell you now  the Black Swan approaches.  
It swims our way.

On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> Yea, I hated that sooo called born again water bordering ass hole!!
>
> As much as I don't like the guys who blew up the twin towers in NYC
>
> I don't believe we should be lowering are selves to there same type  
> of shite!!
>
> Then we are no better then them!!
>
> And if you don't think there is going to be blow back when all those  
> pic are let free for everybody to see, then bush needs a CAT scan!!
>
> Now they don't just hate us americans anymore, now they really want  
> to car bomb our American ass to the end of the earth, and who could  
> blame them??
>
> Could you blame them, if that the type of shite these born again  
> type shite.
>
> It's the type of shit that make me understand how turn atheist.......
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Randy Faulconer  
> <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>   This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>> would strong arm them????
>>
>>        Peace Love and the Revolution
>>              Randy
>>
>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hola:
>>>
>>> Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of  
>>> opium, 50
>>> mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD,  
>>> 40 mgrs
>>> methamphetamine.
>>>
>>> This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order  
>>> of
>>> president Bush.
>>>
>>> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 01:21:14 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:21:14 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <ECC5EDED-76F4-473C-BDDD-31158BF2B3E0@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<80EC4454-7517-4D27-9025-307C81585751@gmail.com>
	<ECC5EDED-76F4-473C-BDDD-31158BF2B3E0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0904302221r6b419cddh4ab3409d7dca6d05@mail.gmail.com>

Actually I live 20 mins away from mexico and I go down there once to twice a
month to enjoy the company and help out the folks that run Pangea Biomedical
(Ibogaine Association).  I know Tijuana well enough, I still BELIEVE in the
FREEDOM of the individual to ingest whatever they wish to, to make their
lives and horrible or as beautiful as they wish to.  I say that being once a
IV drug user, living on streets and then on methadone for 6 years.
Don't give me that shit sir, forcing someone to do as you wish them to
rarely (almost never) works, there are better ways!  When a person needs
help because they have become self destructive and apathetic to their own
situation, they need help.. and that help doesn't come by punishment.. it
comes by helping them to look at the fundamental issues, helping them mature
and build self worth and focus... this DOES NOT HAPPEN
BY INSTITUTIONALIZING SOMEONE IN PRISON.

Prison is not the answer, the DRUG WAR is about to bankrupt Mexico.. because
the drug cartel has become more powerful than the government!!!!  Being
drugs are so damned profitable (and dirty) because they are illegal.

The war on drug use is a load of shit >.<

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:

> You are a true idiot. Yes Bush was the worst. I DISAGREE With Iraq. However
> your stupidity is reflected in your lack of Patriotism. If you don't like it
> here move. Obama whom I VOTED for will be out in ! term. Im an Economist and
>  I will tell you now  the Black Swan approaches. It swims our way.
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>  Yea, I hated that sooo called born again water bordering ass hole!!
>>
>> As much as I don't like the guys who blew up the twin towers in NYC
>>
>> I don't believe we should be lowering are selves to there same type of
>> shite!!
>>
>> Then we are no better then them!!
>>
>> And if you don't think there is going to be blow back when all those pic
>> are let free for everybody to see, then bush needs a CAT scan!!
>>
>> Now they don't just hate us americans anymore, now they really want to car
>> bomb our American ass to the end of the earth, and who could blame them??
>>
>> Could you blame them, if that the type of shite these born again type
>> shite.
>>
>> It's the type of shit that make me understand how turn atheist.......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>>> would strong arm them????
>>>
>>>       Peace Love and the Revolution
>>>             Randy
>>>
>>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hola:
>>>>
>>>> Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of opium,
>>>> 50
>>>> mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD, 40
>>>> mgrs
>>>> methamphetamine.
>>>>
>>>> This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order of
>>>> president Bush.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090430/5037116c/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 01:37:49 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:37:49 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0904302221r6b419cddh4ab3409d7dca6d05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<80EC4454-7517-4D27-9025-307C81585751@gmail.com>
	<ECC5EDED-76F4-473C-BDDD-31158BF2B3E0@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302221r6b419cddh4ab3409d7dca6d05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0904302237i4e8726fara89a3f18fddef793@mail.gmail.com>

Actually Sitkaa is much more "patriotic" than am I.. so I"m just going to
add my two cents in.. cause this shit kinda get's under my skin!

> Flags are bits of coloured cloth that governments use to first, shrink wrap
> people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead.
>

>                                    ~Arundhati Roy


Take that crap that severs you from the rest of the human race, plant earth
and yes.. the Universe itself and eat it, digest it.. and shit it out for
something else to grow from!



On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:21 PM, James Forristal
<psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Actually I live 20 mins away from mexico and I go down there once to twice
> a month to enjoy the company and help out the folks that run Pangea
> Biomedical (Ibogaine Association).  I know Tijuana well enough, I still
> BELIEVE in the FREEDOM of the individual to ingest whatever they wish to, to
> make their lives and horrible or as beautiful as they wish to.  I say that
> being once a IV drug user, living on streets and then on methadone for 6
> years.
> Don't give me that shit sir, forcing someone to do as you wish them to
> rarely (almost never) works, there are better ways!  When a person needs
> help because they have become self destructive and apathetic to their own
> situation, they need help.. and that help doesn't come by punishment.. it
> comes by helping them to look at the fundamental issues, helping them mature
> and build self worth and focus... this DOES NOT HAPPEN
> BY INSTITUTIONALIZING SOMEONE IN PRISON.
>
> Prison is not the answer, the DRUG WAR is about to bankrupt Mexico..
> because the drug cartel has become more powerful than the government!!!!
>  Being drugs are so damned profitable (and dirty) because they are illegal.
>
> The war on drug use is a load of shit >.<
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> You are a true idiot. Yes Bush was the worst. I DISAGREE With Iraq.
>> However your stupidity is reflected in your lack of Patriotism. If you don't
>> like it here move. Obama whom I VOTED for will be out in ! term. Im an
>> Economist and  I will tell you now  the Black Swan approaches. It swims our
>> way.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>  Yea, I hated that sooo called born again water bordering ass hole!!
>>>
>>> As much as I don't like the guys who blew up the twin towers in NYC
>>>
>>> I don't believe we should be lowering are selves to there same type of
>>> shite!!
>>>
>>> Then we are no better then them!!
>>>
>>> And if you don't think there is going to be blow back when all those pic
>>> are let free for everybody to see, then bush needs a CAT scan!!
>>>
>>> Now they don't just hate us americans anymore, now they really want to
>>> car bomb our American ass to the end of the earth, and who could blame
>>> them??
>>>
>>> Could you blame them, if that the type of shite these born again type
>>> shite.
>>>
>>> It's the type of shit that make me understand how turn atheist.......
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>>>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>>>> would strong arm them????
>>>>
>>>>       Peace Love and the Revolution
>>>>             Randy
>>>>
>>>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hola:
>>>>>
>>>>> Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of
>>>>> opium, 50
>>>>> mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD, 40
>>>>> mgrs
>>>>> methamphetamine.
>>>>>
>>>>> This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order of
>>>>> president Bush.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090430/13e8a16f/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 01:55:30 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 00:55:30 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9498E9AC-6298-4B70-992B-394125E072AD@gmail.com>

Well, I don't think obama is touching this issue. He doesn't want to  
go down as the first black man as pres. To legalizal everything.

He just doesn't want to be remembered as fucking the hell out of this  
stupid ass country.(poeple losing there minds, American are mostly  
idiots anyway, more so then any other country in the world) example:  
only in America does a idiot walk fully loaded in a old yolks home and  
start blasting a way at poeple even in wheelchairs!!!! And not on any  
drug too!!!! Totally straight faced!!!) that a american type thing to  
do(only in America do you see that type of shite on a "daly") one  
school shooting per every 1-2 years or so.. What country has that type  
of shit going on??
I tell u the fucking crazy ass americans!!!

I mean, I see both sides.

As a man(Obama, not me) who got kids, I can kind of see his train of  
thought.

I would put a end to the war on drugs, BUT, I would want to still have  
them given out in a very control manner.
Maybe even by a doctor(don't what doc, on god green earth would want  
to do that because you not really helping there health a whole lot by  
keeping them fucked up to hell, for non medical perposes) poeple who  
could work if they got clean so to speak.(not really helping the job  
market have fucked out of thier minds)

Obama believe poeple would start going crazy(again America are  
complete nut jobs off drugs) if all these drugs were just so easy to  
get, and the world would fall into dissray.(not in my mind, his mind,  
he doesnt see it as a "good way" to "jump start" the job market........ 
(again in his own mind)

I can are where he coming from.

I don't know, it's a mess, and nobody want to be the one with quote in  
quote blood on "thier hands"(even so call pro choice drug poeple-even  
me)

I think it's all just stupid, but I do see where the guys coming from.

I like Obama, and I voted for him, he didn't act like bush, "am the  
big bad wolf and I'm going to blow you up" if you don't think the way  
I do type shite(that even I have trouble with)my dad was a bush type,  
"taught me about "guns" at young age.
The cowboy type man bull shite. Born again crap, so when I act a fool,  
most the type it come from modeling after my dad(as bad as that is)

At least Obama has change the tone, Im not going blow you up if u  
don't think like we do type shite, the way born again Bushy did.

Oh, he quit drinking, oh, am so proud of him... How many quit drinking  
and worse, and never say another thing about it!!

So what, I quit shooting shit up, do need a cookie for it?????? And I  
did it fighting a crazy illness that no doc even come close to  
understanding, and in extreme pain also, you talk about hard!!!
But am I speical, NO!! I am not!!

I did what had to, or would been dead!!
It's as simple as that!! I would have killed my self, maybe other  
poeple can chip, with the needle(addictive sub. Via the needle in  
vein) but couldn't do it, nor control it, I know where my power ends.  
OP(oral) I have not a problem with control.

But anyway, I like Obama,and don't care what poeple say about him, I  
think Mccane would been bushy little best buddy.
And think it sad, how bush wouldn't when left office said he wouldnt  
help Obama...,

Every needs help everybody every now and again, if they not totally  
horrible poeple, and as sick as it may be, I prblaby help those poeple  
too.
I been given a lot of help in life, mainly by my poor mother, who goes  
without to help me.

As for the drug war in america, it's not changing any time soon, but I  
will say this, poeple are "starting" to see it helps nobody by banning  
all this shit(hell ban gun see what happens), it seem to only make it  
worse. The only thing is, those poeple who see this, are back seat  
drivers(not the ones in power)







On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:51 AM, James Forristal  
<psychonaut101 at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's order  
> stands on this mess.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
> would strong arm them????
>
>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>               Randy
>
> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hola:
> >
> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of  
> opium, 50
> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD,  
> 40 mgrs
> > methamphetamine.
> >
> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order  
> of
> > president Bush.
> >
> > http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
> >
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090501/236e70da/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:01:19 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:01:19 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0904302237i4e8726fara89a3f18fddef793@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<80EC4454-7517-4D27-9025-307C81585751@gmail.com>
	<ECC5EDED-76F4-473C-BDDD-31158BF2B3E0@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302221r6b419cddh4ab3409d7dca6d05@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302237i4e8726fara89a3f18fddef793@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A476931D-D00D-46FD-A70F-C6A07B8E4862@gmail.com>

To James,

I apologize for my rudeness. I  agree with abolishing the drug laws.  
However we need to start the education process in the young regarding  
the pitfalls so many of us faced. Legalization would eliminate the  
crime rate and empty the Jails. When I look back and realize what and  
how I was involved in the drug war it turns my stomach. I belong to  
Leap(Law enforcement against prohibition) only because I can speak  
freely now. I also agree  with Patrick Krouppa that Drug war is a war  
against humanity and that drug users are the lAST NIGGERS ON PLANET  
EARTH.
On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:37 PM, James Forristal wrote:

> Actually Sitkaa is much more "patriotic" than am I.. so I"m just  
> going to add my two cents in.. cause this shit kinda get's under my  
> skin!
>
> Flags are bits of coloured cloth that governments use to first,  
> shrink wrap people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury  
> the dead.
>
>                                    ~Arundhati Roy
>
> Take that crap that severs you from the rest of the human race,  
> plant earth and yes.. the Universe itself and eat it, digest it..  
> and shit it out for something else to grow from!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:21 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> Actually I live 20 mins away from mexico and I go down there once to  
> twice a month to enjoy the company and help out the folks that run  
> Pangea Biomedical (Ibogaine Association).  I know Tijuana well  
> enough, I still BELIEVE in the FREEDOM of the individual to ingest  
> whatever they wish to, to make their lives and horrible or as  
> beautiful as they wish to.  I say that being once a IV drug user,  
> living on streets and then on methadone for 6 years.
>
> Don't give me that shit sir, forcing someone to do as you wish them  
> to rarely (almost never) works, there are better ways!  When a  
> person needs help because they have become self destructive and  
> apathetic to their own situation, they need help.. and that help  
> doesn't come by punishment.. it comes by helping them to look at the  
> fundamental issues, helping them mature and build self worth and  
> focus... this DOES NOT HAPPEN BY INSTITUTIONALIZING SOMEONE IN PRISON.
>
> Prison is not the answer, the DRUG WAR is about to bankrupt Mexico..  
> because the drug cartel has become more powerful than the  
> government!!!!  Being drugs are so damned profitable (and dirty)  
> because they are illegal.
>
> The war on drug use is a load of shit >.<
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Michael Liedtke  
> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
> You are a true idiot. Yes Bush was the worst. I DISAGREE With Iraq.  
> However your stupidity is reflected in your lack of Patriotism. If  
> you don't like it here move. Obama whom I VOTED for will be out in !  
> term. Im an Economist and  I will tell you now  the Black Swan  
> approaches. It swims our way.
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
> Yea, I hated that sooo called born again water bordering ass hole!!
>
> As much as I don't like the guys who blew up the twin towers in NYC
>
> I don't believe we should be lowering are selves to there same type  
> of shite!!
>
> Then we are no better then them!!
>
> And if you don't think there is going to be blow back when all those  
> pic are let free for everybody to see, then bush needs a CAT scan!!
>
> Now they don't just hate us americans anymore, now they really want  
> to car bomb our American ass to the end of the earth, and who could  
> blame them??
>
> Could you blame them, if that the type of shite these born again  
> type shite.
>
> It's the type of shit that make me understand how turn atheist.......
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Randy Faulconer  
> <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
> would strong arm them????
>
>       Peace Love and the Revolution
>             Randy
>
> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hola:
>
> Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of  
> opium, 50
> mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD, 40  
> mgrs
> methamphetamine.
>
> This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order of
> president Bush.
>
> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090430/6fadaae6/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:09:27 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 01:09:27 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0904302221r6b419cddh4ab3409d7dca6d05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<80EC4454-7517-4D27-9025-307C81585751@gmail.com>
	<ECC5EDED-76F4-473C-BDDD-31158BF2B3E0@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302221r6b419cddh4ab3409d7dca6d05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA07687E-D3F2-4D95-BFC2-962011DACE41@gmail.com>

You know, what, I would die for my fucking country you fuck!!!!

I just said you have to under why these poeple hate Us!!!

We go over there trying to police the fucking world!! And then what  
the fuck happen?? What? What happens?????

Oh yes, we got these country that don't like it to much!!!

They don't want us there!!

Would want some other country come over here tell us how to live?     
Would you???? Would you???!

If had more fucking GOD damm money I fucking would fucking move!!!!

The troops come home a fucking god damm drug war!!! After spilling  
there fucking guts!!!!!!

And are Forced to live "medications" that worse then so call street  
drugs the came FROM THE GROUND!!!! Grow wild!!!!!! the only a add hole  
doctor who will and can fire you at anytime!!!!!!!

Yea, what the fuck ever, your the fucking idiot!!




Europe sounds quote nice.. Hopefull I will get enough enough money to  
move there one day!!!!!!
On May 1, 2009, at 12:21 AM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Actually I live 20 mins away from mexico and I go down there once to  
> twice a month to enjoy the company and help out the folks that run  
> Pangea Biomedical (Ibogaine Association).  I know Tijuana well  
> enough, I still BELIEVE in the FREEDOM of the individual to ingest  
> whatever they wish to, to make their lives and horrible or as  
> beautiful as they wish to.  I say that being once a IV drug user,  
> living on streets and then on methadone for 6 years.
>
> Don't give me that shit sir, forcing someone to do as you wish them  
> to rarely (almost never) works, there are better ways!  When a  
> person needs help because they have become self destructive and  
> apathetic to their own situation, they need help.. and that help  
> doesn't come by punishment.. it comes by helping them to look at the  
> fundamental issues, helping them mature and build self worth and  
> focus... this DOES NOT HAPPEN BY INSTITUTIONALIZING SOMEONE IN PRISON.
>
> Prison is not the answer, the DRUG WAR is about to bankrupt Mexico..  
> because the drug cartel has become more powerful than the  
> government!!!!  Being drugs are so damned profitable (and dirty)  
> because they are illegal.
>
> The war on drug use is a load of shit >.<
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Michael Liedtke  
> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
> You are a true idiot. Yes Bush was the worst. I DISAGREE With Iraq.  
> However your stupidity is reflected in your lack of Patriotism. If  
> you don't like it here move. Obama whom I VOTED for will be out in !  
> term. Im an Economist and  I will tell you now  the Black Swan  
> approaches. It swims our way.
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
> Yea, I hated that sooo called born again water bordering ass hole!!
>
> As much as I don't like the guys who blew up the twin towers in NYC
>
> I don't believe we should be lowering are selves to there same type  
> of shite!!
>
> Then we are no better then them!!
>
> And if you don't think there is going to be blow back when all those  
> pic are let free for everybody to see, then bush needs a CAT scan!!
>
> Now they don't just hate us americans anymore, now they really want  
> to car bomb our American ass to the end of the earth, and who could  
> blame them??
>
> Could you blame them, if that the type of shite these born again  
> type shite.
>
> It's the type of shit that make me understand how turn atheist.......
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Randy Faulconer  
> <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
> would strong arm them????
>
>       Peace Love and the Revolution
>             Randy
>
> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hola:
>
> Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of  
> opium, 50
> mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD, 40  
> mgrs
> methamphetamine.
>
> This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order of
> president Bush.
>
> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090501/7e4c4f6f/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:14:27 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 01:14:27 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <D53BCB99-D7D9-421C-9D36-DF29A8F6FBC2@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
	<D53BCB99-D7D9-421C-9D36-DF29A8F6FBC2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3280F7BB-2B29-4EE0-A86D-19D92639C514@gmail.com>

It still not legal!!! That why it like that!!


That America has not made it legal, America the fucking problem, they  
can make to much money buy exporting it to the USA, it not that far by  
plane. Now using light one man planes.!!

They will alway find ways to get drugs over, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!!

On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> hello list,
>
> Why is this great for mexico? Have you ever been there. It is filthy  
> and corrupt. Last thing they need is opium legalization. Go visit  
> down there and see for yourself. Meth too. No Drug education which  
> needs to follow the legalization . Do you really know what you are  
> talking about ?  I was involved in the drug war front line. Mexico  
> made a huge mistake.
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:51 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>
>> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's order  
>> stands on this mess.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>> would strong arm them????
>>
>>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>>               Randy
>>
>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hola:
>> >
>> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of  
>> opium, 50
>> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD,  
>> 40 mgrs
>> > methamphetamine.
>> >
>> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by  
>> order of
>> > president Bush.
>> >
>> > http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>> >
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090501/7c501677/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:14:51 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:14:51 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <9498E9AC-6298-4B70-992B-394125E072AD@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
	<9498E9AC-6298-4B70-992B-394125E072AD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D790DF41-195F-40D6-B47E-9F086F7E7C56@gmail.com>

DEAR Jamez,

Do you know their is a whole planet out there. Move if you don't like  
it. You are probably sucking the ssi system like the other leaches  
claiming whatever as your disability. Look at Africa you  
retard(somalia) move down there. We dont need you here. You are lucky.  
Now go to sleep in your rat infested hole. Your ignorance is reflected  
in your post.











On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> Well, I don't think obama is touching this issue. He doesn't want to  
> go down as the first black man as pres. To legalizal everything.
>
> He just doesn't want to be remembered as fucking the hell out of  
> this stupid ass country.(poeple losing there minds, American are  
> mostly idiots anyway, more so then any other country in the world)  
> example: only in America does a idiot walk fully loaded in a old  
> yolks home and start blasting a way at poeple even in  
> wheelchairs!!!! And not on any drug too!!!! Totally straight  
> faced!!!) that a american type thing to do(only in America do you  
> see that type of shite on a "daly") one school shooting per every  
> 1-2 years or so.. What country has that type of shit going on??
> I tell u the fucking crazy ass americans!!!
>
> I mean, I see both sides.
>
> As a man(Obama, not me) who got kids, I can kind of see his train of  
> thought.
>
> I would put a end to the war on drugs, BUT, I would want to still  
> have them given out in a very control manner.
> Maybe even by a doctor(don't what doc, on god green earth would want  
> to do that because you not really helping there health a whole lot  
> by keeping them fucked up to hell, for non medical perposes) poeple  
> who could work if they got clean so to speak.(not really helping the  
> job market have fucked out of thier minds)
>
> Obama believe poeple would start going crazy(again America are  
> complete nut jobs off drugs) if all these drugs were just so easy to  
> get, and the world would fall into dissray.(not in my mind, his  
> mind, he doesnt see it as a "good way" to "jump start" the job  
> market........(again in his own mind)
>
> I can are where he coming from.
>
> I don't know, it's a mess, and nobody want to be the one with quote  
> in quote blood on "thier hands"(even so call pro choice drug poeple- 
> even me)
>
> I think it's all just stupid, but I do see where the guys coming from.
>
> I like Obama, and I voted for him, he didn't act like bush, "am the  
> big bad wolf and I'm going to blow you up" if you don't think the  
> way I do type shite(that even I have trouble with)my dad was a bush  
> type, "taught me about "guns" at young age.
> The cowboy type man bull shite. Born again crap, so when I act a  
> fool, most the type it come from modeling after my dad(as bad as  
> that is)
>
> At least Obama has change the tone, Im not going blow you up if u  
> don't think like we do type shite, the way born again Bushy did.
>
> Oh, he quit drinking, oh, am so proud of him... How many quit  
> drinking and worse, and never say another thing about it!!
>
> So what, I quit shooting shit up, do need a cookie for it?????? And  
> I did it fighting a crazy illness that no doc even come close to  
> understanding, and in extreme pain also, you talk about hard!!!
> But am I speical, NO!! I am not!!
>
> I did what had to, or would been dead!!
> It's as simple as that!! I would have killed my self, maybe other  
> poeple can chip, with the needle(addictive sub. Via the needle in  
> vein) but couldn't do it, nor control it, I know where my power  
> ends. OP(oral) I have not a problem with control.
>
> But anyway, I like Obama,and don't care what poeple say about him, I  
> think Mccane would been bushy little best buddy.
> And think it sad, how bush wouldn't when left office said he wouldnt  
> help Obama...,
>
> Every needs help everybody every now and again, if they not totally  
> horrible poeple, and as sick as it may be, I prblaby help those  
> poeple too.
> I been given a lot of help in life, mainly by my poor mother, who  
> goes without to help me.
>
> As for the drug war in america, it's not changing any time soon, but  
> I will say this, poeple are "starting" to see it helps nobody by  
> banning all this shit(hell ban gun see what happens), it seem to  
> only make it worse. The only thing is, those poeple who see this,  
> are back seat drivers(not the ones in power)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:51 AM, James Forristal  
> <psychonaut101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's order  
>> stands on this mess.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>> would strong arm them????
>>
>>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>>               Randy
>>
>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hola:
>> >
>> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of  
>> opium, 50
>> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD,  
>> 40 mgrs
>> > methamphetamine.
>> >
>> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by  
>> order of
>> > president Bush.
>> >
>> > http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>> >
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090430/69f266ab/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:18:19 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:18:19 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <DA07687E-D3F2-4D95-BFC2-962011DACE41@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<80EC4454-7517-4D27-9025-307C81585751@gmail.com>
	<ECC5EDED-76F4-473C-BDDD-31158BF2B3E0@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302221r6b419cddh4ab3409d7dca6d05@mail.gmail.com>
	<DA07687E-D3F2-4D95-BFC2-962011DACE41@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF5CF6AD-F9A9-4A71-B97A-C6C703312084@gmail.com>

Jamez,


Ever hear of work. Go earn and leave. You won't because you never have  
worked. You are an SSI(federal welfare) bum sucking the system.
On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:09 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> ng to police the fucking world!! And then what the fuck happen??  
> What? What happens?????
>


From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:27:31 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 01:27:31 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>

Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give, let me  
tell it's not fucking much!!!!!

It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!

I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
So fuck off!!

You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple hardships in  
life!!!
Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!

We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!

Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!

Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
I think you need to go back and start fight the war against drugs!!
Because that what you sound like you still believe!!

Good luck!!

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:42:53 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:42:53 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <3280F7BB-2B29-4EE0-A86D-19D92639C514@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
	<D53BCB99-D7D9-421C-9D36-DF29A8F6FBC2@gmail.com>
	<3280F7BB-2B29-4EE0-A86D-19D92639C514@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0904302342o599ce71ct63f04bec409b9c78@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not on SSI, I'm a wage slave.. the same I'd be almost anywhere (but a
few little pieces of jungle) on this planet dominated by a reality created
through one long line of patriarchal hierarchies.  It's kinda hard to get
away from  insecure, loud mouthed and did I mention power hungry men, so I
think I'll stand my ground where ever I am and face the bullshit.  I figure
at some point the truth of the heart's reason has to ring true with others
and some of these lame ideologies and "isms" might shut up and listen for a
second.

http://www.whywork.org/about/faq/wageslave.html






On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:

> It still not legal!!! That why it like that!!
>
>
> That America has not made it legal, America the fucking problem, they can
> make to much money buy exporting it to the USA, it not that far by plane.
> Now using light one man planes.!!
>
> They will alway find ways to get drugs over, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!!
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> hello list,
> Why is this great for mexico? Have you ever been there. It is filthy and
> corrupt. Last thing they need is opium legalization. Go visit down there and
> see for yourself. Meth too. No Drug education which needs to follow the
> legalization . Do you really know what you are talking about ?  I was
> involved in the drug war front line. Mexico made a huge mistake.
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:51 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>
> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's order stands
> on this mess.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <<bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
> bicuitboy714 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>> would strong arm them????
>>
>>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>>               Randy
>>
>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago < <mexczar at gmail.com>mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hola:
>> >
>> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of opium,
>> 50
>> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD, 40
>> mgrs
>> > methamphetamine.
>> >
>> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order of
>> > president Bush.
>> >
>> >
>> <http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php>
>> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>> >
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090430/2c74451f/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 02:44:48 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:44:48 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0904302342o599ce71ct63f04bec409b9c78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
	<D53BCB99-D7D9-421C-9D36-DF29A8F6FBC2@gmail.com>
	<3280F7BB-2B29-4EE0-A86D-19D92639C514@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302342o599ce71ct63f04bec409b9c78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0904302344t7af97351i23833660b747458f@mail.gmail.com>

Sooner or later we won't be able to use our money and power to run from the
realities we create.. when we make hell for others, we make a hell for
ourselves.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:42 PM, James Forristal
<psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm not on SSI, I'm a wage slave.. the same I'd be almost anywhere (but a
> few little pieces of jungle) on this planet dominated by a reality created
> through one long line of patriarchal hierarchies.  It's kinda hard to get
> away from  insecure, loud mouthed and did I mention power hungry men, so I
> think I'll stand my ground where ever I am and face the bullshit.  I figure
> at some point the truth of the heart's reason has to ring true with others
> and some of these lame ideologies and "isms" might shut up and listen for a
> second.
>
> http://www.whywork.org/about/faq/wageslave.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> It still not legal!!! That why it like that!!
>>
>>
>> That America has not made it legal, America the fucking problem, they can
>> make to much money buy exporting it to the USA, it not that far by plane.
>> Now using light one man planes.!!
>>
>> They will alway find ways to get drugs over, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!!
>>
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> hello list,
>> Why is this great for mexico? Have you ever been there. It is filthy and
>> corrupt. Last thing they need is opium legalization. Go visit down there and
>> see for yourself. Meth too. No Drug education which needs to follow the
>> legalization . Do you really know what you are talking about ?  I was
>> involved in the drug war front line. Mexico made a huge mistake.
>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:51 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>>
>> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's order stands
>> on this mess.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <<bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>> bicuitboy714 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>>> would strong arm them????
>>>
>>>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>>>               Randy
>>>
>>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago < <mexczar at gmail.com>mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hola:
>>> >
>>> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of
>>> opium, 50
>>> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD, 40
>>> mgrs
>>> > methamphetamine.
>>> >
>>> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order of
>>> > president Bush.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> <http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php>
>>> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>>> >
>>>
>>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090430/62df9b59/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 03:49:13 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 02:49:13 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <475E1EFA-120B-4993-902F-BA1D8C8EF290@gmail.com>

You know, I use to think the same way about the poeple in africa when  
was a little boy, I thought, and ask my mother, why does those poeple  
just all move?????

Yea, that a childs brain for you.......

Sound like you still have one....,


Things are much more complex then that!!!!

There many vaibles you not looking at.

Legalize opium, hell all you got to do is grow some poppies... They  
sell sell the seeds every where.. How you going to police that???

I talking for personal use only.

Example don't want to have be so damm dependent on a doctor for pain  
control, every 30 fucking days.

And guess what, If you miss you date to see the doctor, your not  
getting them a for a whole another fucking month, oh that fucking fare  
isn't it??

You see this is what are troops come home to after spilling thier guts  
on foreign soil(if they live??, or are in lucky enough to live come  
home wheelchair bound with nobody to give a rate ass about them  
anymore!!)

They come home, too a little ass hole doctor telling them to piss in a  
fucking cup!! Or they don't get there meds!!
And they piss ANYTHING they fucked, bye, bye, pain meds!!!! And start  
looking for a new doctor which can take YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then they are "forced" to go to the  
STREET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And then they really get fucked up!!!!

Is that right??? Is it???????

Is that what "born again" doctors are spose to do????

I myself, as much as crazy as nut job if a chactor, that I am, do  
beleive in GOD, but I don't believe in call my self born again.....  
Like these so called christans try to act like......

I think it's all bs!!

Long live "Ron Paul!!"
He said the same things about what just said!!! Same thing about blow  
back!!! Same things about the drug war.

And no, I don't believe In warefare, for these girls that just keep  
having kids!!

I believe there should be help, but not this have as many kids as you  
like and were are going to just pay for them all shite!!!

Yea, and I have tried to go the disabilty office and get help, yea  
fucking right!!!!!! 3 different times, thier worthless!!!!

That when I said, fuck it, I doing my own GOD DAMM THING!! And pay foe  
EMT class my fucking self!!!
I would tell anybody, fuck going to the disability office, DO IT YOUR  
FUCKING SELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fuck the niazi type system(tell who you are, and that you can't learn,  
they use to tell that to the fucking blacks!!
That they couldn't read!! So what happen?? So many of them didn't even  
try!!! But then, go against the system black changed it.

This country would rather take chance on these fuck going down  
company's that are going down anyways?!. Then help the fucking poor,  
or help poeple get a good paying job and help poeple get on thier  
feet!!(which sometime takes a long ass  
time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, I just doesn't happen over  
night!!!
These poeple who make it big, man they been work on it for a LIFE TIME!!
They were not born with it!!!!

Some take a long time for poeple get off ssi, and if the God damm  
country was willing to help these poeple more to help pay for  
schooling as what not, but they won't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They make is so almost impossible for these poeple to get off ssi,  
they just feel like fuck it, they won't even try.

I mean what they try and make they take dollar for dollar, so it not  
even worth it for then to work(many of hurt the fucked up on "legal  
medication"
For problem they can hardly help!!!
And for then to fully recover they need all this money to buy good  
food(which the gov. Think is a waste)
And all this natural stuff, that no doctor is ever going to tell you  
about.

So yea, it make almost impossible!!!!



Yea, Im pissed the off at this country!! Sure am!!!!

And only feel a "faction", of what some these troops feel(the ones  
that got permently dissabled feel example dick blown the fuck  
off!!!!!!!! on foregin soil for stupid war over money and  power, that  
want to play my dick bigger then your daddys type shite!!!!, just a  
hair!!!!
Of what they must feel like!!!

So yea, I am freaken pissed!!

Then I heard of stories of us bombing schools over iraqi, what give us  
the right to do that type of shit??? Blowing little childen to bits,  
your damn right they hate us!!! If some foregin country came over here  
and killed you whole family, you mean you wouldn't be ready to take up  
arms against some fuckers! You be "already to go out "in a blaze of  
glory!!!!!"

Think of what's going on over there, we killed there loved ones, long  
before 911, long before 911 ever happen, we stired up a hornets nest  
is what we done!!!!!! It's CALLED "BLOW BACK!!!!!!!"

Look up the word "blow back"

And then American don't understand why they hate us??

All Over oil!!!!

All under the this "born again" type cowboy shite!!

Yea I fuck hate this country!! We're spose be better then that...

If we are this Land if "born again" poeple we should be better then  
that!

You what to be fare, the county is a great county, BUT, I get so  
pissed it not better then it is!!!!! That what piss me off, this  
country keeps fall into the same type of stupid traps, making things  
worse for our selves.







From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 04:11:16 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 01:11:16 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0904302344t7af97351i23833660b747458f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
	<D53BCB99-D7D9-421C-9D36-DF29A8F6FBC2@gmail.com>
	<3280F7BB-2B29-4EE0-A86D-19D92639C514@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302342o599ce71ct63f04bec409b9c78@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904302344t7af97351i23833660b747458f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905010111p3f1942b2s344c8c53ade9914b@mail.gmail.com>

You know having Mexican heroin running through you veins is pretty nasty
anyway.  That floaty brown crap feels like toxic sludge mixed with poppy
juice.  You gotta be already fucked up to want that shoe polish in your
arteries!  I bet you anything my body is still cleaning that crap out of my
system.
Never mind I think 30mg of that crap would take a quarter gram (250mg) to
obtain.. and I'm guessing Mexico doesn't have the cash to assess over bag
they get their hands on.. so almost everyone is going to be charged for the
full weight of the material with buffer and bag included.. so very few are
going to slip through the cracks.  It's kind of like LSD and blotter paper,
I remember reading about a case in the Grateful Dead shows where they were
charging people with the full weight of the LSD and paper as though it was
all LSD.   If that's the case.. very few folks have pure mind altering drugs
these days.. sept for the folks at the methadone clinic.. heh



On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 PM, James Forristal
<psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Sooner or later we won't be able to use our money and power to run from the
> realities we create.. when we make hell for others, we make a hell for
> ourselves.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:42 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm not on SSI, I'm a wage slave.. the same I'd be almost anywhere (but a
>> few little pieces of jungle) on this planet dominated by a reality created
>> through one long line of patriarchal hierarchies.  It's kinda hard to get
>> away from  insecure, loud mouthed and did I mention power hungry men, so I
>> think I'll stand my ground where ever I am and face the bullshit.  I figure
>> at some point the truth of the heart's reason has to ring true with others
>> and some of these lame ideologies and "isms" might shut up and listen for a
>> second.
>>
>> http://www.whywork.org/about/faq/wageslave.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> It still not legal!!! That why it like that!!
>>>
>>>
>>> That America has not made it legal, America the fucking problem, they can
>>> make to much money buy exporting it to the USA, it not that far by plane.
>>> Now using light one man planes.!!
>>>
>>> They will alway find ways to get drugs over, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> hello list,
>>> Why is this great for mexico? Have you ever been there. It is filthy and
>>> corrupt. Last thing they need is opium legalization. Go visit down there and
>>> see for yourself. Meth too. No Drug education which needs to follow the
>>> legalization . Do you really know what you are talking about ?  I was
>>> involved in the drug war front line. Mexico made a huge mistake.
>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 9:51 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>>>
>>> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's order
>>> stands on this mess.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <<bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>>> bicuitboy714 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the drugs
>>>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that Bush
>>>> would strong arm them????
>>>>
>>>>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>>>>               Randy
>>>>
>>>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago < <mexczar at gmail.com>mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Hola:
>>>> >
>>>> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr of
>>>> opium, 50
>>>> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs LSD, 40
>>>> mgrs
>>>> > methamphetamine.
>>>> >
>>>> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by order of
>>>> > president Bush.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> <http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php>
>>>> http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090501/46228c53/attachment-0001.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 05:01:28 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 04:01:28 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Welfare, Is the disease killing America
Message-ID: <E6471B6C-82A5-49FF-9D5C-CF2033293009@gmail.com>


This type of shite with giving out hand outs to poeple who just keep  
having kids!!!!!!

That what killing the system!!

Not ssi!!!

Granted, poeple do lie to get ssi, not the smartest poeple in the  
world!!

675, a month, gets you about a month worth of food!!
Maybe depending on how good you eat. Oh and you just might be able pay  
a few bills.

These poeple on ssi, are not living the high life!!! I tell you that!!!

I would be in a ditch if was not for my mother help.

SSI not getting me out of this mess, I'll tell you that!!!!!

And I hate to say it, the gov. Not either.

I have NO KIDS, and do not make them like a lot if guys d and can't  
take care of them( not a jugde them, because, hey, I know better than  
any body shite happens!!!! Especailly when got pussy in front of u if  
Been making a little money, and then all the suggest you get hit with  
some fuck up shite, oh and then you go from being a possible  
"prospect" to a worthless fuck that can't keep a bitch rollling in her  
new found life style)

Yea, and it happen TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

All but the kid thing, THINK GOD!!!!!

Yea, I got luck there, think god!!! Hell now a days I put two rubbers  
on!!!!

I feel sorry for these poor son of a bitch that fuck up and have kids  
with bitches that really didn't give a fuck about them, feel sorry for  
those poor soles!!!!





From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 05:42:40 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 02:42:40 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
References: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>

Jerry,

I have been disabled for 9 years. I earn from  my easy chair and my  
Mac.  I hope you get better and become an EMT.
On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give, let  
> me tell it's not fucking much!!!!!
>
> It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!
>
> I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
> And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
> So fuck off!!
>
> You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple hardships in  
> life!!!
> Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!
>
> We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!
>
> Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!
>
> Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
> I think you need to go back and start fight the war against drugs!!
> Because that what you sound like you still believe!!
>
> Good luck!!
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 05:51:14 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 02:51:14 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Welfare, Is the disease killing America
In-Reply-To: <E6471B6C-82A5-49FF-9D5C-CF2033293009@gmail.com>
References: <E6471B6C-82A5-49FF-9D5C-CF2033293009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A67E7300-8FF3-4BC5-B2E2-9926369DD79C@gmail.com>

Anyway I AM WRONG FOR LASHING OUT. Everyone has an opinion. You Yours  
me mine. Good luck on EMT its a hard class.
On May 1, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

>
> This type of shite with giving out hand outs to poeple who just keep  
> having kids!!!!!!
>
> That what killing the system!!
>
> Not ssi!!!
>
> Granted, poeple do lie to get ssi, not the smartest poeple in the  
> world!!
>
> 675, a month, gets you about a month worth of food!!
> Maybe depending on how good you eat. Oh and you just might be able  
> pay a few bills.
>
> These poeple on ssi, are not living the high life!!! I tell you  
> that!!!
>
> I would be in a ditch if was not for my mother help.
>
> SSI not getting me out of this mess, I'll tell you that!!!!!
>
> And I hate to say it, the gov. Not either.
>
> I have NO KIDS, and do not make them like a lot if guys d and can't  
> take care of them( not a jugde them, because, hey, I know better  
> than any body shite happens!!!! Especailly when got pussy in front  
> of u if Been making a little money, and then all the suggest you get  
> hit with some fuck up shite, oh and then you go from being a  
> possible "prospect" to a worthless fuck that can't keep a bitch  
> rollling in her new found life style)
>
> Yea, and it happen TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> All but the kid thing, THINK GOD!!!!!
>
> Yea, I got luck there, think god!!! Hell now a days I put two  
> rubbers on!!!!
>
> I feel sorry for these poor son of a bitch that fuck up and have  
> kids with bitches that really didn't give a fuck about them, feel  
> sorry for those poor soles!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 06:07:53 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 05:07:53 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Welfare, Is the disease killing America
In-Reply-To: <A67E7300-8FF3-4BC5-B2E2-9926369DD79C@gmail.com>
References: <E6471B6C-82A5-49FF-9D5C-CF2033293009@gmail.com>
	<A67E7300-8FF3-4BC5-B2E2-9926369DD79C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD7C26F4-81D3-411F-8286-6564F5E26F8A@gmail.com>

yea, man too.

Sorry
On May 1, 2009, at 4:51 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:

> Anyway I AM WRONG FOR LASHING OUT. Everyone has an opinion. You  
> Yours me mine. Good luck on EMT its a hard class.
> On May 1, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>>
>> This type of shite with giving out hand outs to poeple who just  
>> keep having kids!!!!!!
>>
>> That what killing the system!!
>>
>> Not ssi!!!
>>
>> Granted, poeple do lie to get ssi, not the smartest poeple in the  
>> world!!
>>
>> 675, a month, gets you about a month worth of food!!
>> Maybe depending on how good you eat. Oh and you just might be able  
>> pay a few bills.
>>
>> These poeple on ssi, are not living the high life!!! I tell you  
>> that!!!
>>
>> I would be in a ditch if was not for my mother help.
>>
>> SSI not getting me out of this mess, I'll tell you that!!!!!
>>
>> And I hate to say it, the gov. Not either.
>>
>> I have NO KIDS, and do not make them like a lot if guys d and can't  
>> take care of them( not a jugde them, because, hey, I know better  
>> than any body shite happens!!!! Especailly when got pussy in front  
>> of u if Been making a little money, and then all the suggest you  
>> get hit with some fuck up shite, oh and then you go from being a  
>> possible "prospect" to a worthless fuck that can't keep a bitch  
>> rollling in her new found life style)
>>
>> Yea, and it happen TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> All but the kid thing, THINK GOD!!!!!
>>
>> Yea, I got luck there, think god!!! Hell now a days I put two  
>> rubbers on!!!!
>>
>> I feel sorry for these poor son of a bitch that fuck up and have  
>> kids with bitches that really didn't give a fuck about them, feel  
>> sorry for those poor soles!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 06:08:53 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 05:08:53 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>
References: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
	<5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AC243E8-8A75-4F44-90B3-11D9E821C9E5@gmail.com>

Love to know what the hell you do....
On May 1, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> I have been disabled for 9 years. I earn from  my easy chair and my  
> Mac.  I hope you get better and become an EMT.
> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>> Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give, let  
>> me tell it's not fucking much!!!!!
>>
>> It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!
>>
>> I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
>> And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
>> So fuck off!!
>>
>> You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple hardships  
>> in life!!!
>> Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!
>>
>> We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!
>>
>> Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!
>>
>> Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
>> I think you need to go back and start fight the war against drugs!!
>> Because that what you sound like you still believe!!
>>
>> Good luck!!
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 06:23:32 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 05:23:32 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Welfare, Is the disease killing America
In-Reply-To: <A67E7300-8FF3-4BC5-B2E2-9926369DD79C@gmail.com>
References: <E6471B6C-82A5-49FF-9D5C-CF2033293009@gmail.com>
	<A67E7300-8FF3-4BC5-B2E2-9926369DD79C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2565561D-E949-47E7-AE0D-53C77E1C2F0F@gmail.com>

No, paramedic a hard class..,.

On May 1, 2009, at 4:51 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyway I AM WRONG FOR LASHING OUT. Everyone has an opinion. You  
> Yours me mine. Good luck on EMT its a hard class.
> On May 1, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>>
>> This type of shite with giving out hand outs to poeple who just  
>> keep having kids!!!!!!
>>
>> That what killing the system!!
>>
>> Not ssi!!!
>>
>> Granted, poeple do lie to get ssi, not the smartest poeple in the  
>> world!!
>>
>> 675, a month, gets you about a month worth of food!!
>> Maybe depending on how good you eat. Oh and you just might be able  
>> pay a few bills.
>>
>> These poeple on ssi, are not living the high life!!! I tell you  
>> that!!!
>>
>> I would be in a ditch if was not for my mother help.
>>
>> SSI not getting me out of this mess, I'll tell you that!!!!!
>>
>> And I hate to say it, the gov. Not either.
>>
>> I have NO KIDS, and do not make them like a lot if guys d and can't  
>> take care of them( not a jugde them, because, hey, I know better  
>> than any body shite happens!!!! Especailly when got pussy in front  
>> of u if Been making a little money, and then all the suggest you  
>> get hit with some fuck up shite, oh and then you go from being a  
>> possible "prospect" to a worthless fuck that can't keep a bitch  
>> rollling in her new found life style)
>>
>> Yea, and it happen TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> All but the kid thing, THINK GOD!!!!!
>>
>> Yea, I got luck there, think god!!! Hell now a days I put two  
>> rubbers on!!!!
>>
>> I feel sorry for these poor son of a bitch that fuck up and have  
>> kids with bitches that really didn't give a fuck about them, feel  
>> sorry for those poor soles!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 06:39:43 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 03:39:43 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <8AC243E8-8A75-4F44-90B3-11D9E821C9E5@gmail.com>
References: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
	<5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>
	<8AC243E8-8A75-4F44-90B3-11D9E821C9E5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C01F7D7F-54C8-4690-B98E-8D94EE731D61@gmail.com>

I am a Day Trader. Its the hardest thing I have ever done. However I  
was determined since 1 out of 10 makes it. You could do it. If you  
really want to. You  make money going up and you make money  
shorting(MARKET COMES DOWN). Lots of reading, its easier if you know  
economics. Look up Timothysykes.com. Remember TRADERS ARE different  
from investors. As at end of Day I am all cash. Investors hold. Sykes  
is good. You need to also understand Technical analysis. When to enter  
and exit like a ninja. So being laid up paid off in the end. An my  
beautiful Mac Book pro. Actually Sykes started trading when he was  
disabled with a broken arm as well.
On May 1, 2009, at 3:08 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> Love to know what the hell you do....
> On May 1, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> I have been disabled for 9 years. I earn from  my easy chair and my  
>> Mac.  I hope you get better and become an EMT.
>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>> Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give, let  
>>> me tell it's not fucking much!!!!!
>>>
>>> It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!
>>>
>>> I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
>>> And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
>>> So fuck off!!
>>>
>>> You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple hardships  
>>> in life!!!
>>> Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!
>>>
>>> We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!
>>>
>>> Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!
>>>
>>> Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
>>> I think you need to go back and start fight the war against drugs!!
>>> Because that what you sound like you still believe!!
>>>
>>> Good luck!!
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From ibogamail at gmail.com  Fri May  1 08:45:51 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt Shriver)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 06:45:51 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
 of drugs
In-Reply-To: <D790DF41-195F-40D6-B47E-9F086F7E7C56@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>	<9498E9AC-6298-4B70-992B-394125E072AD@gmail.com>
	<D790DF41-195F-40D6-B47E-9F086F7E7C56@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49FAEEFF.2080704@gmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090501/0c377daf/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 08:58:06 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 07:58:06 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <C01F7D7F-54C8-4690-B98E-8D94EE731D61@gmail.com>
References: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
	<5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>
	<8AC243E8-8A75-4F44-90B3-11D9E821C9E5@gmail.com>
	<C01F7D7F-54C8-4690-B98E-8D94EE731D61@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <630DA754-54ED-4D68-BA18-FEAED2C275F7@gmail.com>

Yes, I that what was thinking you were doing.....

I was really for real just about to jump in(start brush up on my  
encon), but the market really turned just when thought about doing it,  
i was frighten me off by the down slide.
I was just tell I guy a use to friend when I met him I had thought of  
doing that.

You kind need a nest egg I would think(for when times got rough)

I know a little about the market, not near enough to make though.




On May 1, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am a Day Trader. Its the hardest thing I have ever done. However I  
> was determined since 1 out of 10 makes it. You could do it. If you  
> really want to. You  make money going up and you make money  
> shorting(MARKET COMES DOWN). Lots of reading, its easier if you know  
> economics. Look up Timothysykes.com. Remember TRADERS ARE different  
> from investors. As at end of Day I am all cash. Investors hold.  
> Sykes is good. You need to also understand Technical analysis. When  
> to enter and exit like a ninja. So being laid up paid off in the  
> end. An my beautiful Mac Book pro. Actually Sykes started trading  
> when he was disabled with a broken arm as well.
> On May 1, 2009, at 3:08 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>> Love to know what the hell you do....
>> On May 1, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>
>>> Jerry,
>>>
>>> I have been disabled for 9 years. I earn from  my easy chair and  
>>> my Mac.  I hope you get better and become an EMT.
>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give,  
>>>> let me tell it's not fucking much!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!
>>>>
>>>> I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
>>>> And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
>>>> So fuck off!!
>>>>
>>>> You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple hardships  
>>>> in life!!!
>>>> Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!
>>>>
>>>> We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!
>>>>
>>>> Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!
>>>>
>>>> Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
>>>> I think you need to go back and start fight the war against drugs!!
>>>> Because that what you sound like you still believe!!
>>>>
>>>> Good luck!!
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 09:06:26 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 06:06:26 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <630DA754-54ED-4D68-BA18-FEAED2C275F7@gmail.com>
References: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
	<5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>
	<8AC243E8-8A75-4F44-90B3-11D9E821C9E5@gmail.com>
	<C01F7D7F-54C8-4690-B98E-8D94EE731D61@gmail.com>
	<630DA754-54ED-4D68-BA18-FEAED2C275F7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91503D2A-6014-450B-B6CD-3DED11B6066E@gmail.com>

You can learn. I did. Remember if it goes down their is money to be  
made. If it goes up their is money. Start watching Stocks. Here is one  
DNE ,its at 52 week low .11
On May 1, 2009, at 5:58 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> Yes, I that what was thinking you were doing.....
>
> I was really for real just about to jump in(start brush up on my  
> encon), but the market really turned just when thought about doing  
> it, i was frighten me off by the down slide.
> I was just tell I guy a use to friend when I met him I had thought  
> of doing that.
>
> You kind need a nest egg I would think(for when times got rough)
>
> I know a little about the market, not near enough to make though.
>
>
>
>
> On May 1, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> I am a Day Trader. Its the hardest thing I have ever done. However  
>> I was determined since 1 out of 10 makes it. You could do it. If  
>> you really want to. You  make money going up and you make money  
>> shorting(MARKET COMES DOWN). Lots of reading, its easier if you  
>> know economics. Look up Timothysykes.com. Remember TRADERS ARE  
>> different from investors. As at end of Day I am all cash. Investors  
>> hold. Sykes is good. You need to also understand Technical  
>> analysis. When to enter and exit like a ninja. So being laid up  
>> paid off in the end. An my beautiful Mac Book pro. Actually Sykes  
>> started trading when he was disabled with a broken arm as well.
>> On May 1, 2009, at 3:08 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>> Love to know what the hell you do....
>>> On May 1, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jerry,
>>>>
>>>> I have been disabled for 9 years. I earn from  my easy chair and  
>>>> my Mac.  I hope you get better and become an EMT.
>>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give,  
>>>>> let me tell it's not fucking much!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
>>>>> And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
>>>>> So fuck off!!
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple  
>>>>> hardships in life!!!
>>>>> Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!
>>>>>
>>>>> We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
>>>>> I think you need to go back and start fight the war against  
>>>>> drugs!!
>>>>> Because that what you sound like you still believe!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck!!
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 09:08:36 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:08:36 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mexico Senate approve decriminalizing personal use
	of drugs
In-Reply-To: <49FAEEFF.2080704@gmail.com>
References: <6a4de0b90904300708y5f917c16p8b3b02af733f46f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<29d165a30904300839m5d0ea76fneecc357841b71210@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0904300951r7d8addf3k41855bbb19b0eff@mail.gmail.com>
	<9498E9AC-6298-4B70-992B-394125E072AD@gmail.com>
	<D790DF41-195F-40D6-B47E-9F086F7E7C56@gmail.com>
	<49FAEEFF.2080704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8BB7FF47-ED81-407E-9931-B89774C56DD8@gmail.com>

Look man, all is wel, thing just got a little heated that all, shit  
happen.

You know how it is with the drug war types,

I been some pretty heated shit just talk about how they should  
legalized at least decrimalize some these drugs.

Look matt, it a heat thing to even talk about, I many poeple are just  
programed to react when talking about it.

It's happens, and it bound to happen again in the future.

I said some strong words my self, and I sorry.
The about poeple ssi got me, people don't understan, it all scum bags  
that don't want to wok on it
Many poeple who got hit with "something"
Addiction that over took them, illness, WTF ever got hit up and on it.

But I'm try get off it, it too limiting.
I can't even date girl my age because of it. It's very SAD

But everybody tend to think of ssi poeple in that light, some it is  
true, but a lot it not.

Most the shit your read is 90% bs

The remaining is sort of BS.

And 1% might actually be really true.


On May 1, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

> Your last line is ironic.  Look fella, please take your aggro  
> attitude somewhere else or calm down a little.  I don't like to read  
> a bunch of flames in my mail box.
>
> Matt
>
> Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>
>> DEAR Jamez,
>>
>> Do you know their is a whole planet out there. Move if you don't  
>> like it. You are probably sucking the ssi system like the other  
>> leaches claiming whatever as your disability. Look at Africa you  
>> retard(somalia) move down there. We dont need you here. You are  
>> lucky. Now go to sleep in your rat infested hole. Your ignorance is  
>> reflected in your post.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I don't think obama is touching this issue. He doesn't want  
>>> to go down as the first black man as pres. To legalizal everything.
>>>
>>> He just doesn't want to be remembered as fucking the hell out of  
>>> this stupid ass country.(poeple losing there minds, American are  
>>> mostly idiots anyway, more so then any other country in the world)  
>>> example: only in America does a idiot walk fully loaded in a old  
>>> yolks home and start blasting a way at poeple even in  
>>> wheelchairs!!!! And not on any drug too!!!! Totally straight  
>>> faced!!!) that a american type thing to do(only in America do you  
>>> see that type of shite on a "daly") one school shooting per every  
>>> 1-2 years or so.. What country has that type of shit going on??
>>> I tell u the fucking crazy ass americans!!!
>>>
>>> I mean, I see both sides.
>>>
>>> As a man(Obama, not me) who got kids, I can kind of see his train  
>>> of thought.
>>>
>>> I would put a end to the war on drugs, BUT, I would want to still  
>>> have them given out in a very control manner.
>>> Maybe even by a doctor(don't what doc, on god green earth would  
>>> want to do that because you not really helping there health a  
>>> whole lot by keeping them fucked up to hell, for non medical  
>>> perposes) poeple who could work if they got clean so to speak.(not  
>>> really helping the job market have fucked out of thier minds)
>>>
>>> Obama believe poeple would start going crazy(again America are  
>>> complete nut jobs off drugs) if all these drugs were just so easy  
>>> to get, and the world would fall into dissray.(not in my mind, his  
>>> mind, he doesnt see it as a "good way" to "jump start" the job  
>>> market........(again in his own mind)
>>>
>>> I can are where he coming from.
>>>
>>> I don't know, it's a mess, and nobody want to be the one with  
>>> quote in quote blood on "thier hands"(even so call pro choice drug  
>>> poeple-even me)
>>>
>>> I think it's all just stupid, but I do see where the guys coming  
>>> from.
>>>
>>> I like Obama, and I voted for him, he didn't act like bush, "am  
>>> the big bad wolf and I'm going to blow you up" if you don't think  
>>> the way I do type shite(that even I have trouble with)my dad was a  
>>> bush type, "taught me about "guns" at young age.
>>> The cowboy type man bull shite. Born again crap, so when I act a  
>>> fool, most the type it come from modeling after my dad(as bad as  
>>> that is)
>>>
>>> At least Obama has change the tone, Im not going blow you up if u  
>>> don't think like we do type shite, the way born again Bushy did.
>>>
>>> Oh, he quit drinking, oh, am so proud of him... How many quit  
>>> drinking and worse, and never say another thing about it!!
>>>
>>> So what, I quit shooting shit up, do need a cookie for it??????  
>>> And I did it fighting a crazy illness that no doc even come close  
>>> to understanding, and in extreme pain also, you talk about hard!!!
>>> But am I speical, NO!! I am not!!
>>>
>>> I did what had to, or would been dead!!
>>> It's as simple as that!! I would have killed my self, maybe other  
>>> poeple can chip, with the needle(addictive sub. Via the needle in  
>>> vein) but couldn't do it, nor control it, I know where my power  
>>> ends. OP(oral) I have not a problem with control.
>>>
>>> But anyway, I like Obama,and don't care what poeple say about him,  
>>> I think Mccane would been bushy little best buddy.
>>> And think it sad, how bush wouldn't when left office said he  
>>> wouldnt help Obama...,
>>>
>>> Every needs help everybody every now and again, if they not  
>>> totally horrible poeple, and as sick as it may be, I prblaby help  
>>> those poeple too.
>>> I been given a lot of help in life, mainly by my poor mother, who  
>>> goes without to help me.
>>>
>>> As for the drug war in america, it's not changing any time soon,  
>>> but I will say this, poeple are "starting" to see it helps nobody  
>>> by banning all this shit(hell ban gun see what happens), it seem  
>>> to only make it worse. The only thing is, those poeple who see  
>>> this, are back seat drivers(not the ones in power)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:51 AM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com 
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's is a nice little test to feel out just where Mr. Obama's  
>>>> order stands on this mess.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>    This is great for Mexico, but it's not enough of some of the  
>>>> drugs
>>>> to be practible. It's a great start, and doesn't it figure that  
>>>> Bush
>>>> would strong arm them????
>>>>
>>>>         Peace Love and the Revolution
>>>>               Randy
>>>>
>>>> On 4/30/09, Al Plago <mexczar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Hola:
>>>> >
>>>> > Mexico's approved 87 to 10 personal use of drugs allowing 2 gr  
>>>> of opium, 50
>>>> > mgr heroin, 5 grs of marihuana, 500 mgrs cocaine, 0.015 mgrs  
>>>> LSD, 40 mgrs
>>>> > methamphetamine.
>>>> >
>>>> > This law past 5 years ago but was vetoed by president Fox by  
>>>> order of
>>>> > president Bush.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.tribunalatina.com/es/notices/mexico_despenaliza_la_posesion_de_drogas_para_uso_personal_18053.php
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090501/e5553401/attachment.htm>

From ibogamail at gmail.com  Fri May  1 09:21:50 2009
From: ibogamail at gmail.com (Matt Shriver)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 07:21:50 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Welfare, Is the disease killing America
In-Reply-To: <CD7C26F4-81D3-411F-8286-6564F5E26F8A@gmail.com>
References: <E6471B6C-82A5-49FF-9D5C-CF2033293009@gmail.com>	<A67E7300-8FF3-4BC5-B2E2-9926369DD79C@gmail.com>
	<CD7C26F4-81D3-411F-8286-6564F5E26F8A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49FAF76E.8070404@gmail.com>

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout.  I wish I had finished reading my emails 
before I said anything to you Michael.  Peace out love gangstas.

My own two cents is this: legalizing drugs is the better alternative for 
every country although there will always be people who are hurt by just 
about any policy.  But since "social" by definition means a bunch of 
people are involved, then "social policy" should be aimed at what is 
most beneficial for the most people.  As fas as mexico is concerned I 
love it there.  The people seem more open and friendly then in the US.  
And when I say this I am basing my opinion on places like Puerto 
Vallarte and not Juarez which is a place I wouldn't really be into 
visiting again any time soon.  But they do have a more obvious contrast 
between rich and poor there with huge resorts right next to seriously 
poor neighborhoods.  Maybe the US is just better at running off it's 
poor and keeping them out of sight and out of mind.

As for education, can drug education touch the underlying reasons for 
the drug use?  How does "drugs are bad mmmkay" really benefit someone 
who is using drugs to deal with psychological issues?  If all you do is 
get rid of the drugs you have not actually helped, because now they have 
no mechanism to deal with the underlying psychological problems.  In the 
past year I have seen two people close to me kill themselves because 
they were eliminating the pattern of drug abuse without finding a way to 
adequately deal with the reasons for the drug use in the first place.

As for the whole welfare/SSI conversation, as a tax payer I would much 
rather my money went to help out the disadvantaged then to make bombs to 
kill people in foreign lands.  I am lucky enough to make enough that I 
get to pick and choose which organizations to give a little extra money 
to, but I don't get to choose where my tax money gets spent.  Handing 
out billions to banks so they can make sure and give out huge bonuses to 
their already massively overpaid executives is not exactly something I 
want to contribute to.  Helping some poor bastard who can't get it 
together to become a wage slave (or even some poor bastard who has had 
his spirit crushed by being a wage slave and now would rather stay home 
and smoke weed and watch game shows) is a much better use of my tax 
money.  And just for the record I am not saying that description is 
accurate for all people on SSI. 

I worked taking care of people with developmental disabilities for a few 
years and they were all getting SSI and they were not exactly getting a 
lot of money.  One guy had been left a fully paid for house by his 
mother and SSI was not enough for him to afford property taxes and 
utilities and the various home maintenance costs that come up and he had 
to sell it and move into an apartment with several other guys.

Matt

Jeremy Spence wrote:
> yea, man too.
>
> Sorry
> On May 1, 2009, at 4:51 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>
>> Anyway I AM WRONG FOR LASHING OUT. Everyone has an opinion. You Yours 
>> me mine. Good luck on EMT its a hard class.
>> On May 1, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This type of shite with giving out hand outs to poeple who just keep 
>>> having kids!!!!!!
>>>
>>> That what killing the system!!
>>>
>>> Not ssi!!!
>>>
>>> Granted, poeple do lie to get ssi, not the smartest poeple in the 
>>> world!!
>>>
>>> 675, a month, gets you about a month worth of food!!
>>> Maybe depending on how good you eat. Oh and you just might be able 
>>> pay a few bills.
>>>
>>> These poeple on ssi, are not living the high life!!! I tell you that!!!
>>>
>>> I would be in a ditch if was not for my mother help.
>>>
>>> SSI not getting me out of this mess, I'll tell you that!!!!!
>>>
>>> And I hate to say it, the gov. Not either.
>>>
>>> I have NO KIDS, and do not make them like a lot if guys d and can't 
>>> take care of them( not a jugde them, because, hey, I know better 
>>> than any body shite happens!!!! Especailly when got pussy in front 
>>> of u if Been making a little money, and then all the suggest you get 
>>> hit with some fuck up shite, oh and then you go from being a 
>>> possible "prospect" to a worthless fuck that can't keep a bitch 
>>> rollling in her new found life style)
>>>
>>> Yea, and it happen TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> All but the kid thing, THINK GOD!!!!!
>>>
>>> Yea, I got luck there, think god!!! Hell now a days I put two 
>>> rubbers on!!!!
>>>
>>> I feel sorry for these poor son of a bitch that fuck up and have 
>>> kids with bitches that really didn't give a fuck about them, feel 
>>> sorry for those poor soles!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>


From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 09:36:32 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 06:36:32 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Welfare, Is the disease killing America
In-Reply-To: <49FAF76E.8070404@gmail.com>
References: <E6471B6C-82A5-49FF-9D5C-CF2033293009@gmail.com>	<A67E7300-8FF3-4BC5-B2E2-9926369DD79C@gmail.com>
	<CD7C26F4-81D3-411F-8286-6564F5E26F8A@gmail.com>
	<49FAF76E.8070404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D0B687C-CF63-448D-85FB-BE201F5DA326@gmail.com>

Matt,
TRUTH IS SSI is necessary. Do people abuse it sure. There is Fraud  
involved but I cant worry about that. Peace

One last thing , fullfillment of the law is love to your fellow man.   
I do not mean the gay way either. I gotta work. Later

Mike



On May 1, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Matt Shriver wrote:

> That's what I'm talkin' 'bout.  I wish I had finished reading my  
> emails before I said anything to you Michael.  Peace out love  
> gangstas.
>
> My own two cents is this: legalizing drugs is the better alternative  
> for every country although there will always be people who are hurt  
> by just about any policy.  But since "social" by definition means a  
> bunch of people are involved, then "social policy" should be aimed  
> at what is most beneficial for the most people.  As fas as mexico is  
> concerned I love it there.  The people seem more open and friendly  
> then in the US.  And when I say this I am basing my opinion on  
> places like Puerto Vallarte and not Juarez which is a place I  
> wouldn't really be into visiting again any time soon.  But they do  
> have a more obvious contrast between rich and poor there with huge  
> resorts right next to seriously poor neighborhoods.  Maybe the US is  
> just better at running off it's poor and keeping them out of sight  
> and out of mind.
>
> As for education, can drug education touch the underlying reasons  
> for the drug use?  How does "drugs are bad mmmkay" really benefit  
> someone who is using drugs to deal with psychological issues?  If  
> all you do is get rid of the drugs you have not actually helped,  
> because now they have no mechanism to deal with the underlying  
> psychological problems.  In the past year I have seen two people  
> close to me kill themselves because they were eliminating the  
> pattern of drug abuse without finding a way to adequately deal with  
> the reasons for the drug use in the first place.
>
> As for the whole welfare/SSI conversation, as a tax payer I would  
> much rather my money went to help out the disadvantaged then to make  
> bombs to kill people in foreign lands.  I am lucky enough to make  
> enough that I get to pick and choose which organizations to give a  
> little extra money to, but I don't get to choose where my tax money  
> gets spent.  Handing out billions to banks so they can make sure and  
> give out huge bonuses to their already massively overpaid executives  
> is not exactly something I want to contribute to.  Helping some poor  
> bastard who can't get it together to become a wage slave (or even  
> some poor bastard who has had his spirit crushed by being a wage  
> slave and now would rather stay home and smoke weed and watch game  
> shows) is a much better use of my tax money.  And just for the  
> record I am not saying that description is accurate for all people  
> on SSI.
> I worked taking care of people with developmental disabilities for a  
> few years and they were all getting SSI and they were not exactly  
> getting a lot of money.  One guy had been left a fully paid for  
> house by his mother and SSI was not enough for him to afford  
> property taxes and utilities and the various home maintenance costs  
> that come up and he had to sell it and move into an apartment with  
> several other guys.
>
> Matt
>
> Jeremy Spence wrote:
>> yea, man too.
>>
>> Sorry
>> On May 1, 2009, at 4:51 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway I AM WRONG FOR LASHING OUT. Everyone has an opinion. You  
>>> Yours me mine. Good luck on EMT its a hard class.
>>> On May 1, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This type of shite with giving out hand outs to poeple who just  
>>>> keep having kids!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> That what killing the system!!
>>>>
>>>> Not ssi!!!
>>>>
>>>> Granted, poeple do lie to get ssi, not the smartest poeple in the  
>>>> world!!
>>>>
>>>> 675, a month, gets you about a month worth of food!!
>>>> Maybe depending on how good you eat. Oh and you just might be  
>>>> able pay a few bills.
>>>>
>>>> These poeple on ssi, are not living the high life!!! I tell you  
>>>> that!!!
>>>>
>>>> I would be in a ditch if was not for my mother help.
>>>>
>>>> SSI not getting me out of this mess, I'll tell you that!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> And I hate to say it, the gov. Not either.
>>>>
>>>> I have NO KIDS, and do not make them like a lot if guys d and  
>>>> can't take care of them( not a jugde them, because, hey, I know  
>>>> better than any body shite happens!!!! Especailly when got pussy  
>>>> in front of u if Been making a little money, and then all the  
>>>> suggest you get hit with some fuck up shite, oh and then you go  
>>>> from being a possible "prospect" to a worthless fuck that can't  
>>>> keep a bitch rollling in her new found life style)
>>>>
>>>> Yea, and it happen TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> All but the kid thing, THINK GOD!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Yea, I got luck there, think god!!! Hell now a days I put two  
>>>> rubbers on!!!!
>>>>
>>>> I feel sorry for these poor son of a bitch that fuck up and have  
>>>> kids with bitches that really didn't give a fuck about them, feel  
>>>> sorry for those poor soles!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Fri May  1 09:39:07 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:39:07 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <91503D2A-6014-450B-B6CD-3DED11B6066E@gmail.com>
References: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
	<5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>
	<8AC243E8-8A75-4F44-90B3-11D9E821C9E5@gmail.com>
	<C01F7D7F-54C8-4690-B98E-8D94EE731D61@gmail.com>
	<630DA754-54ED-4D68-BA18-FEAED2C275F7@gmail.com>
	<91503D2A-6014-450B-B6CD-3DED11B6066E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541E5535-B5A4-42E6-BA39-6E1DEFCDB870@gmail.com>

Yes, I took a encon class, I learn a slight bit, not enough though.

The only problem Is Im on ssi, and I don't know how they like you  
owning ANYTHING!!!!!
I got hit with my bladder cond  when was young, so I got the worse  
kind of ssi, If I make one red cent I have run it in!!
Have to!!
If don't a little birdy told me about some called the IRS.
And they will come back and put hurt'en on you.

Even gangster, fear the IRS!!!!

They spose to be worse then the DEA!!!!

So every dallar I earn they will take from my ssi(not that I care much)

But my main worry is how much and how long they would let me do that  
before saying you on your own??

You see they don't make it really easy for you to get off, that the  
problem.

I will hopefuly get off one day, or die trying.

But you see, they make almost impossible for you get off!!
That's the problem with ssi!!!

It set up like the drug war is, hardcore, and little sense, just  
cowboy mentaily

It's just how it is...

What don't like, is they don't give much allowed time before you start  
making money, just so you get on your feet!!


They start taking any right from the god damm min you own anything!!

That's  the problem with ssi!!

It does not give enough leeway for to start making money, this why a  
lot poeple who on ssi sell there meds!!
They don't have to turn it in, and in traceable source of money.
I don't do it, because I have help from my mother and step dad, but it  
just barly get by.
But al least I not forced into a life of crime, thank GOD!!!

Because I tell you, it would cross my mind and I am good dude man, but  
I am telling it would cross my mind.(and I am a striaght legit pain  
patient..
But it would at least cross my freaken mind.

The rule of ssi are a joke, it no wonder so poeple are on it and can't  
get off.

I mean if the idiot in power would "think" instead reacting!!

But that the fucking problem, everybody reacts!!

And we need to at least "try"
Which hard for me too, and "think" before we react to shit.

I just wish they lossen up the ssi to where you could making money,  
enough to where you could get going and once your got a nest egg of  
some sort let you on your way.

But no, this fucking bs!!
Of how can't own shit!!

My problem they just don't give you enough time to allow you to get  
going and invoc fear,(of working) instead of allowing some leeway to  
allow poeple on ssi to become less fearful they will lose the help all  
together!!

The system is old school and is fucked!!
And makes no logical sense other, then invocing fear that  poeple on  
ssi!!!
On May 1, 2009, at 8:06 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> You can learn. I did. Remember if it goes down their is money to be  
> made. If it goes up their is money. Start watching Stocks. Here is  
> one DNE ,its at 52 week low .11
> On May 1, 2009, at 5:58 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>> Yes, I that what was thinking you were doing.....
>>
>> I was really for real just about to jump in(start brush up on my  
>> encon), but the market really turned just when thought about doing  
>> it, i was frighten me off by the down slide.
>> I was just tell I guy a use to friend when I met him I had thought  
>> of doing that.
>>
>> You kind need a nest egg I would think(for when times got rough)
>>
>> I know a little about the market, not near enough to make though.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am a Day Trader. Its the hardest thing I have ever done. However  
>>> I was determined since 1 out of 10 makes it. You could do it. If  
>>> you really want to. You  make money going up and you make money  
>>> shorting(MARKET COMES DOWN). Lots of reading, its easier if you  
>>> know economics. Look up Timothysykes.com. Remember TRADERS ARE  
>>> different from investors. As at end of Day I am all cash.  
>>> Investors hold. Sykes is good. You need to also understand  
>>> Technical analysis. When to enter and exit like a ninja. So being  
>>> laid up paid off in the end. An my beautiful Mac Book pro.  
>>> Actually Sykes started trading when he was disabled with a broken  
>>> arm as well.
>>> On May 1, 2009, at 3:08 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>
>>>> Love to know what the hell you do....
>>>> On May 1, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jerry,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been disabled for 9 years. I earn from  my easy chair and  
>>>>> my Mac.  I hope you get better and become an EMT.
>>>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give,  
>>>>>> let me tell it's not fucking much!!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
>>>>>> And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
>>>>>> So fuck off!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple  
>>>>>> hardships in life!!!
>>>>>> Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
>>>>>> I think you need to go back and start fight the war against  
>>>>>> drugs!!
>>>>>> Because that what you sound like you still believe!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Fri May  1 13:27:49 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:27:49 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <541E5535-B5A4-42E6-BA39-6E1DEFCDB870@gmail.com>
References: <263941D5-847F-450C-8F26-3CA2C07ECB68@gmail.com>
	<5881213E-917F-48CD-A037-16C0CBC2C7B9@gmail.com>
	<8AC243E8-8A75-4F44-90B3-11D9E821C9E5@gmail.com>
	<C01F7D7F-54C8-4690-B98E-8D94EE731D61@gmail.com>
	<630DA754-54ED-4D68-BA18-FEAED2C275F7@gmail.com>
	<91503D2A-6014-450B-B6CD-3DED11B6066E@gmail.com>
	<541E5535-B5A4-42E6-BA39-6E1DEFCDB870@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35E4744D-D863-450B-9C42-A0002828F459@gmail.com>

Jerry,
It is true you can't own anything. Furthermore if you marry and the  
wife has money they consider it yours and poof,no ssi.  IT NEEDS TO BE  
CHANGED>>>

On May 1, 2009, at 6:39 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> Yes, I took a encon class, I learn a slight bit, not enough though.
>
> The only problem Is Im on ssi, and I don't know how they like you  
> owning ANYTHING!!!!!
> I got hit with my bladder cond  when was young, so I got the worse  
> kind of ssi, If I make one red cent I have run it in!!
> Have to!!
> If don't a little birdy told me about some called the IRS.
> And they will come back and put hurt'en on you.
>
> Even gangster, fear the IRS!!!!
>
> They spose to be worse then the DEA!!!!
>
> So every dallar I earn they will take from my ssi(not that I care  
> much)
>
> But my main worry is how much and how long they would let me do that  
> before saying you on your own??
>
> You see they don't make it really easy for you to get off, that the  
> problem.
>
> I will hopefuly get off one day, or die trying.
>
> But you see, they make almost impossible for you get off!!
> That's the problem with ssi!!!
>
> It set up like the drug war is, hardcore, and little sense, just  
> cowboy mentaily
>
> It's just how it is...
>
> What don't like, is they don't give much allowed time before you  
> start making money, just so you get on your feet!!
>
>
> They start taking any right from the god damm min you own anything!!
>
> That's  the problem with ssi!!
>
> It does not give enough leeway for to start making money, this why a  
> lot poeple who on ssi sell there meds!!
> They don't have to turn it in, and in traceable source of money.
> I don't do it, because I have help from my mother and step dad, but  
> it just barly get by.
> But al least I not forced into a life of crime, thank GOD!!!
>
> Because I tell you, it would cross my mind and I am good dude man,  
> but I am telling it would cross my mind.(and I am a striaght legit  
> pain patient..
> But it would at least cross my freaken mind.
>
> The rule of ssi are a joke, it no wonder so poeple are on it and  
> can't get off.
>
> I mean if the idiot in power would "think" instead reacting!!
>
> But that the fucking problem, everybody reacts!!
>
> And we need to at least "try"
> Which hard for me too, and "think" before we react to shit.
>
> I just wish they lossen up the ssi to where you could making money,  
> enough to where you could get going and once your got a nest egg of  
> some sort let you on your way.
>
> But no, this fucking bs!!
> Of how can't own shit!!
>
> My problem they just don't give you enough time to allow you to get  
> going and invoc fear,(of working) instead of allowing some leeway to  
> allow poeple on ssi to become less fearful they will lose the help  
> all together!!
>
> The system is old school and is fucked!!
> And makes no logical sense other, then invocing fear that  poeple on  
> ssi!!!
> On May 1, 2009, at 8:06 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> You can learn. I did. Remember if it goes down their is money to be  
>> made. If it goes up their is money. Start watching Stocks. Here is  
>> one DNE ,its at 52 week low .11
>> On May 1, 2009, at 5:58 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I that what was thinking you were doing.....
>>>
>>> I was really for real just about to jump in(start brush up on my  
>>> encon), but the market really turned just when thought about doing  
>>> it, i was frighten me off by the down slide.
>>> I was just tell I guy a use to friend when I met him I had thought  
>>> of doing that.
>>>
>>> You kind need a nest egg I would think(for when times got rough)
>>>
>>> I know a little about the market, not near enough to make though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am a Day Trader. Its the hardest thing I have ever done.  
>>>> However I was determined since 1 out of 10 makes it. You could do  
>>>> it. If you really want to. You  make money going up and you make  
>>>> money shorting(MARKET COMES DOWN). Lots of reading, its easier if  
>>>> you know economics. Look up Timothysykes.com. Remember TRADERS  
>>>> ARE different from investors. As at end of Day I am all cash.  
>>>> Investors hold. Sykes is good. You need to also understand  
>>>> Technical analysis. When to enter and exit like a ninja. So being  
>>>> laid up paid off in the end. An my beautiful Mac Book pro.  
>>>> Actually Sykes started trading when he was disabled with a broken  
>>>> arm as well.
>>>> On May 1, 2009, at 3:08 AM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Love to know what the hell you do....
>>>>> On May 1, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jerry,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been disabled for 9 years. I earn from  my easy chair  
>>>>>> and my Mac.  I hope you get better and become an EMT.
>>>>>> On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sucking up the SSI system, do know how much they fucking give,  
>>>>>>> let me tell it's not fucking much!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It not enough to live on I tell you that!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I got hit with fucking rare disease!!
>>>>>>> And am trying to become a fuck EMT!!
>>>>>>> So fuck off!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You don't know poeple struggles!  You don't know poeple  
>>>>>>> hardships in life!!!
>>>>>>> Your just like all the other stupid Americans!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We all all one fuck foot away from ssi!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ever hear of car wreak that were not you damm fault!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope you don't get into one, an and fuck in life!!
>>>>>>> I think you need to go back and start fight the war against  
>>>>>>> drugs!!
>>>>>>> Because that what you sound like you still believe!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good luck!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From klausmkl at gmail.com  Sat May  2 02:20:59 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 23:20:59 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>

Hi List,

I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help  
with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it  
down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca.  
Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay  
black market prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at  
1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the  
cannabis use after  opiates.


On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:

> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
> By Daniel Scarpinato
> arizona daily star
> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>
>
>
> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or  
> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter  
> approval gets its way next year.
> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot  
> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of  
> non-profit "dispensaries."
> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering  
> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have  
> long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full  
> legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more serious  
> addictions.
> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark  
> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in  
> on the issue.
> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It  
> provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering and  
> dying."
> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could  
> not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is  
> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the  
> state level, it would be legal.
> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"  
> Myers said.
> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana  
> - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
> the threat of losing their license.
> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements  
> in the measure to win voters over. The state could only issue  
> licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within 500  
> feet of a school.
> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
> But some are still skeptical.
> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem  
> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
> California - are prone to abuse.
> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
> dangerous than pot.
> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater  
> societal effects she sees from alcohol.
> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she  
> said.
> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Donzo
>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sat May  2 02:59:29 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 23:59:29 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905012359v3f3f0472uc08b384325550f5d@mail.gmail.com>

Greedy potheads have to be sociopaths to begin with..
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help with
> less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down. Then
> it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>
>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>> arizona daily star
>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>
>>
>>
>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or even
>> grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter approval
>> gets its way next year.
>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>> "dispensaries."
>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering from
>> serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long argued
>> legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug they
>> see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>> issue.
>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>> the state for marijuana possession.
>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at the
>> non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they could
>> grow the drug in their own home.
>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>> it would be legal.
>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship," Myers
>> said.
>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>> losing their license.
>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession of
>> up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>> But some are still skeptical.
>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>> are prone to abuse.
>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he says
>> doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous than
>> pot.
>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state shouldn't
>> try to be "medical arbiters."
>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she said.
>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Donzo
>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090501/6fa9978d/attachment.htm>

From DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com  Sat May  2 06:15:05 2009
From: DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com (Nyc Labrets)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:15:05 +0200
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7237bf9f0905020315t7d2e2845t8bb40ebf3929f597@mail.gmail.com>

I want us to start talking about a 50 State Strategy. There hasn't been a
time like this since the Carter Administration where it's been politically
feasible and if we don't press our advantage now it may be another 40 years
before we get another bite at this apple.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM, DC in AZ <dcollier9 at q.com> wrote:

> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
> By Daniel Scarpinato
> arizona daily star
> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>
>
>
> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or even
> grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter approval
> gets its way next year.
> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
> "dispensaries."
> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering from
> serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long argued
> legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug they
> see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
> issue.
> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
> the state for marijuana possession.
> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at the
> non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they could
> grow the drug in their own home.
> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
> it would be legal.
> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship," Myers
> said.
> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
> losing their license.
> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession of
> up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
> have legalized it for recreational use.
> But some are still skeptical.
> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California - are
> prone to abuse.
> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he says
> doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous than
> pot.
> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
> effects she sees from alcohol.
> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state shouldn't
> try to be "medical arbiters."
> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she said.
> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Donzo
>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>


-- 
"We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."

PirateBay

FTW
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/595dc7d7/attachment.htm>

From digitalcomponents at gmail.com  Sat May  2 07:13:54 2009
From: digitalcomponents at gmail.com (Nyc Labrets)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 13:13:54 +0200
Subject: [Ibogaine] Change We Believed In on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Message-ID: <7237bf9f0905020413v61dd1c19lc5eccc6c50510676@mail.gmail.com>

Happy Jay Day

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dustindewynde/3262470379/in/set-72157613504610334/

Posted these videos
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=DigitalComponents&view=videos&query=million+marijuanafrom
last year's NYC March on Facebook right now.

If you've got friends on Facebook, send 'em over to the link, I'd like to
set up a collection of videos shot from this years events around the World
and the USA.

Thanks!

Nyc
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/626e2e63/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Sat May  2 11:11:23 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 08:11:23 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905012359v3f3f0472uc08b384325550f5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905012359v3f3f0472uc08b384325550f5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82A821A9-3AD3-40B2-B8D7-50F456CB3C23@gmail.com>

James,
Totally agree. I had to pay a Doc 275 US DOllars. Then When you you go  
to the dispensaries they have thugs outside and you have to your  
photocopy from him. They let you in and give you oiled dowN HASH THAT  
LIQUIFY"S UPON HEATING IT.  I totally recommend growing it. I lived in  
Tucson for 5 years. We use to call it  TO0 Stoned. Good weed there  
though. At least it was in the 80's.


On May 1, 2009, at 11:59 PM, James Forristal wrote:

> Greedy potheads have to be sociopaths to begin with..
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Michael Liedtke  
> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting any  
> deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own or you  
> are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a joke).  
> Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>
> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
> By Daniel Scarpinato
> arizona daily star
> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>
>
>
> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or  
> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter  
> approval gets its way next year.
> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot  
> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of  
> non-profit "dispensaries."
> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering  
> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have  
> long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full  
> legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more serious  
> addictions.
> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark  
> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in  
> on the issue.
> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It  
> provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering and  
> dying."
> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could  
> not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is  
> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the  
> state level, it would be legal.
> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"  
> Myers said.
> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana  
> - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
> the threat of losing their license.
> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements  
> in the measure to win voters over. The state could only issue  
> licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within 500  
> feet of a school.
> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
> But some are still skeptical.
> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem  
> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
> California - are prone to abuse.
> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
> dangerous than pot.
> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater  
> societal effects she sees from alcohol.
> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she  
> said.
> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Donzo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/e4a3d831/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sat May  2 11:33:48 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 08:33:48 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <82A821A9-3AD3-40B2-B8D7-50F456CB3C23@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905012359v3f3f0472uc08b384325550f5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<82A821A9-3AD3-40B2-B8D7-50F456CB3C23@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905020833g270403e6ib4a3e0039dcce704@mail.gmail.com>

I never charged over 10 dollars a gram, it was enough for me to continue my
crosses and landraces, pay the electric bill, buy nutrients and
hydro/soil equipment and put a few hundred in my pocket amount
to supplement my income.. and I was in a place where there was much more
risk in doing it that California..
By the way, everything I just said was a lie, so next time I cross the
boarder I don't want any of you customs officials looking at me cross eyed..
I'm a compulsive liar, ya got it?  good!

So I'm just going to call bullshit on California when it comes to pot
prices!

On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> James,Totally agree. I had to pay a Doc 275 US DOllars. Then When you you
> go to the dispensaries they have thugs outside and you have to your
> photocopy from him. They let you in and give you oiled dowN HASH THAT
> LIQUIFY"S UPON HEATING IT.  I totally recommend growing it. I lived in
> Tucson for 5 years. We use to call it  TO0 Stoned. Good weed there though.
> At least it was in the 80's.
>
>
> On May 1, 2009, at 11:59 PM, James Forristal wrote:
>
> Greedy potheads have to be sociopaths to begin with..
> On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help with
>> less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down. Then
>> it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>
>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>> arizona daily star
>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or even
>>> grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter approval
>>> gets its way next year.
>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>> "dispensaries."
>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering from
>>> serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long argued
>>> legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug they
>>> see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>> issue.
>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at the
>>> non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they could
>>> grow the drug in their own home.
>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>> it would be legal.
>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship," Myers
>>> said.
>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>> losing their license.
>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>> are prone to abuse.
>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>> than pot.
>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state shouldn't
>>> try to be "medical arbiters."
>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she said.
>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Donzo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/cedc7b52/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sat May  2 11:46:46 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 08:46:46 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905020833g270403e6ib4a3e0039dcce704@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905012359v3f3f0472uc08b384325550f5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<82A821A9-3AD3-40B2-B8D7-50F456CB3C23@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905020833g270403e6ib4a3e0039dcce704@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905020846l7d55c8c4u2e8784dac5c9023@mail.gmail.com>

Oh did I mention I got all of that from 1800watts of light, so
these dispensaries are making bank.. assholes!

On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I never charged over 10 dollars a gram, it was enough for me to continue my
> crosses and landraces, pay the electric bill, buy nutrients and
> hydro/soil equipment and put a few hundred in my pocket amount
> to supplement my income.. and I was in a place where there was much more
> risk in doing it that California..
> By the way, everything I just said was a lie, so next time I cross the
> boarder I don't want any of you customs officials looking at me cross eyed..
> I'm a compulsive liar, ya got it?  good!
>
> So I'm just going to call bullshit on California when it comes to pot
> prices!
>
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> James,Totally agree. I had to pay a Doc 275 US DOllars. Then When you you
>> go to the dispensaries they have thugs outside and you have to your
>> photocopy from him. They let you in and give you oiled dowN HASH THAT
>> LIQUIFY"S UPON HEATING IT.  I totally recommend growing it. I lived in
>> Tucson for 5 years. We use to call it  TO0 Stoned. Good weed there though.
>> At least it was in the 80's.
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2009, at 11:59 PM, James Forristal wrote:
>>
>> Greedy potheads have to be sociopaths to begin with..
>> On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>
>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>> arizona daily star
>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>> issue.
>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>>> it would be legal.
>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>> Myers said.
>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>> losing their license.
>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>> than pot.
>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>> said.
>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/f51cae54/attachment.htm>

From athabaskana at gmail.com  Sat May  2 23:05:32 2009
From: athabaskana at gmail.com (sitkaa)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 23:05:32 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905020846l7d55c8c4u2e8784dac5c9023@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905012359v3f3f0472uc08b384325550f5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<82A821A9-3AD3-40B2-B8D7-50F456CB3C23@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905020833g270403e6ib4a3e0039dcce704@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905020846l7d55c8c4u2e8784dac5c9023@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b4318a620905022005t3114487axf7155af0507bbac5@mail.gmail.com>

Profit... shouldn't be involved in progressing society, and most especially
not promoting the medical or drug trade. Evidence the effect of the profit
margins of large scale petrochemical-flouride-based allopthic drugs, huge
profits, huge corruption. Compassion should be the sole driver of the
medical and drug industries.

Indeed, if you really want to delve into it, compassion ought to be the
driver of social progress, not profit. Compassion is a better impetus, more
creative, more altruistic, more grounded in wisdom. Ambitions based in
profit drives silly short-term decisions, compounding as a silly short-term
society.

Profit is the economic problem. Compassion is the economic solution.

On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 11:46 AM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Oh did I mention I got all of that from 1800watts of light, so
> these dispensaries are making bank.. assholes!
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I never charged over 10 dollars a gram, it was enough for me to continue
>> my crosses and landraces, pay the electric bill, buy nutrients and
>> hydro/soil equipment and put a few hundred in my pocket amount
>> to supplement my income.. and I was in a place where there was much more
>> risk in doing it that California..
>> By the way, everything I just said was a lie, so next time I cross the
>> boarder I don't want any of you customs officials looking at me cross eyed..
>> I'm a compulsive liar, ya got it?  good!
>>
>> So I'm just going to call bullshit on California when it comes to pot
>> prices!
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> James,Totally agree. I had to pay a Doc 275 US DOllars. Then When you
>>> you go to the dispensaries they have thugs outside and you have to your
>>> photocopy from him. They let you in and give you oiled dowN HASH THAT
>>> LIQUIFY"S UPON HEATING IT.  I totally recommend growing it. I lived in
>>> Tucson for 5 years. We use to call it  TO0 Stoned. Good weed there though.
>>> At least it was in the 80's.
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2009, at 11:59 PM, James Forristal wrote:
>>>
>>> Greedy potheads have to be sociopaths to begin with..
>>> On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot
>>>>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark
>>>>> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of
>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to
>>>>> get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be
>>>>> prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is
>>>>> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state
>>>>> level, it would be legal.
>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>>> Myers said.
>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for
>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only
>>>>> to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>>> losing their license.
>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by
>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the
>>>>> measure to win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120
>>>>> dispensaries, none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem
>>>>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>>> than pot.
>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>>> said.
>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/bbb49d64/attachment.htm>

From athabaskana at gmail.com  Sat May  2 23:12:36 2009
From: athabaskana at gmail.com (sitkaa)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 23:12:36 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>

Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
do with chemicals other than THC.

On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help with
> less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down. Then
> it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>
>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>> arizona daily star
>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>
>>
>>
>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or even
>> grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter approval
>> gets its way next year.
>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>> "dispensaries."
>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering from
>> serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long argued
>> legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug they
>> see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>> issue.
>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>> the state for marijuana possession.
>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at the
>> non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they could
>> grow the drug in their own home.
>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>> it would be legal.
>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship," Myers
>> said.
>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>> losing their license.
>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession of
>> up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>> But some are still skeptical.
>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>> are prone to abuse.
>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he says
>> doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous than
>> pot.
>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state shouldn't
>> try to be "medical arbiters."
>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she said.
>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Donzo
>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/f0df37d4/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Sat May  2 23:50:55 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 20:50:55 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>

Sitka,
your answers
I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marajuana (finest green)  
when I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I did not  
use the pot that I would probably go to 600 mg or more. After the  
surgery my surgeon came to my bed. He told me That during the  
procedure my body was using the anastisha  Like water. The  
Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically good hash enhanced the  
opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns to a white ash  
in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil so they can  
sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes it giving them  
more product.
On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:

> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with chemicals  
> other than THC.
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting any  
> deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own or you  
> are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a joke).  
> Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>
> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
> By Daniel Scarpinato
> arizona daily star
> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>
>
>
> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or  
> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter  
> approval gets its way next year.
> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot  
> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of  
> non-profit "dispensaries."
> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering  
> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have  
> long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full  
> legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more serious  
> addictions.
> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark  
> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in  
> on the issue.
> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It  
> provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering and  
> dying."
> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could  
> not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is  
> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the  
> state level, it would be legal.
> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"  
> Myers said.
> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana  
> - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
> the threat of losing their license.
> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements  
> in the measure to win voters over. The state could only issue  
> licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within 500  
> feet of a school.
> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
> But some are still skeptical.
> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem  
> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
> California - are prone to abuse.
> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
> dangerous than pot.
> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater  
> societal effects she sees from alcohol.
> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she  
> said.
> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Donzo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/79910d75/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sat May  2 23:57:07 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 22:57:07 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61950592-3F3D-4D38-B69A-D2F5AA60FF5D@gmail.com>

There is something call hemp oil, and depend on how it's extracted, it  
can me quite strong, depend on how its extracted.

The oil from marijuana is spose to be really helpful to your health in  
many ways.
On May 2, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:

> Sitka,
> your answers
> I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marajuana (finest  
> green) when I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I  
> did not use the pot that I would probably go to 600 mg or more.  
> After the surgery my surgeon came to my bed. He told me That during  
> the procedure my body was using the anastisha  Like water. The  
> Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically good hash enhanced  
> the opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns to a white  
> ash in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil so they  
> can sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes it giving  
> them more product.
> On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>
>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
>> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
>> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with chemicals  
>> other than THC.
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting any  
>> deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own or you  
>> are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a joke).  
>> Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>
>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>> arizona daily star
>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>
>>
>>
>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot  
>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of  
>> non-profit "dispensaries."
>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more serious  
>> addictions.
>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>> weigh-in on the issue.
>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering and  
>> dying."
>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
>> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could  
>> not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
>> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
>> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on  
>> the state level, it would be legal.
>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"  
>> Myers said.
>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana  
>> - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
>> the threat of losing their license.
>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements  
>> in the measure to win voters over. The state could only issue  
>> licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within 500  
>> feet of a school.
>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
>> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
>> But some are still skeptical.
>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem  
>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>> California - are prone to abuse.
>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
>> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
>> dangerous than pot.
>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater  
>> societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she  
>> said.
>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Donzo
>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/ff8fe1c8/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 00:36:46 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 23:36:46 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5A672EC6-CA66-4012-9203-A40327631D8F@gmail.com>

Look up hemp oil. its spose to very good for the health and its got  
strong dose of THC in it, but most people with health problems use the  
very least to not look like a quote unquote "addict" even if its not  
legal where they do it.

Which is a good Idea if anybody want to grow there own and not be  
looked like as a "addict" not to say the law wouldn't fuck you  
anyway.. In my state they would probably cut off my dick and mail it  
to the DA for the fuck the it!! no matter what I used it for....

My doctor would most likely, TELL ME "YOUR FIRED" If I had THC in my  
system, even it was helping me. But not the doc, as much as it the  
fear, that the DEA could come i n and say, you were helping a fucking  
addict, knowingly!!!!

Which would be Totally bull shit! because I got paper and everything  
saying the nothing more the stupid ass urologist(COMPLETELY IDIOTS!!  
WHEN IT COMES TO IC(A RARE BLADDER DISEASE, THAT MEN TEND TO GET  
WORSE!!!)
But, then again, my black doc, was addicted to smack, dilaudid, coke,  
speed, everything possible, and I believe a person in the waiting room  
told me he got busted 3 different time for dilaudid, and coke, and  
then again, 3 different DWI's!!!!! one in the past few years. The  
mans, been through HELL!!!

So, I would kind of understand a guy who been through that much shit 
+black at that!! not wanting even take one min worth of a chance on  
"ME" "for his" fucking MD!!!! That he worked LIKE A DOG!! AND IN THE  
TIME RACAL CRAZY SHITE, YOU WOULD EVEN WANT TO THINK ABOUT!!  How my  
man got his MD, I WILL NEVER KNOW....... EVER!!!!

Its crazy he even write anything at all really, I don't know if I  
would have the ball to write shit after going through all that!! He  
must really believe in what is doing, I can't see how couldn't!! I  
mean, no body in my town does what that man dose, NOBODY!!!!

give me Testosterone shots, which no damm doctor around here will  
fucking do, even for god damm low fucking lest!!! So man, the guys a  
good guy, he doesn't let me control the shots, he to fearful. Which is  
mostly BULL SHIT!! THAT THEY BEEN PROGRAMED TO BELIEVE!!!! But to be  
fare, shit does happen, in the wrong person, wrong mind set, wrong  
body chem, and you never know, you just might have made a monster you  
can't control(which is largely BS, but you just never know how people  
are going to do on that shit, it can change you mood, and it could  
possible lead to health problems in not respected.

Plus the whole needle(me use it my self, kind of freaks him out,  
possible not clean off right, get a infection, and mean all these  
things have to looked at. Because even if legal act was not taken, he  
still could be sued, anybody can sue anybody, OVER ANYTHING!!!

Plus I am on amphetamine(adderall) and that constricts the blood  
vessels, and steroids(steroid not made by the body) tend to rise the  
blood pressure, so you got the combo to think about, which could lead  
to stroke. so I got quite a cocktail that could harm if not really  
watched closely, so I see him point, even though i thinks its mostly BS.

But, I am older and less of a stupid ass, and don't just throw what  
ever in my body and just "SEE WHAT HAPPENS", type of guy anymore at  
32, I just don't think stupid anymore, I tend to plan my meds out, and  
really wait it out before going in there and "requesting" "all this  
shite" !(Which completely different to "ordering" MD to give you what  
ever you "think" you might need............ Example ordering a MD to  
give dilaudid, or straight fentanyl, which they might as well just say  
here is you heroin you just asked for, have FUN!! :O) Yea, I doctor  
saying that, yea right...

Well, to be fare dilaudid a good pain killer, and you use way less,  
but man its so addictive!!! So is fentanyl, I swear, fentanyl is dead  
up like heroin, I mean dead up like it. I mean I kind of feel don't  
even have to try heroin, man, I done 4 100mcg(which mean its give out  
100 "micro" grams per hour) 1 100mcg spose last 72, but doesn't,  
should last at least 48hr though, patch is 10mg, so I did 40mg at one  
time!!! and 100 micro grams can and will kill!!! I my self have never  
known anybody to ever live after shooting one whole patch 10mg, never!!

When my mother told my pain doctor I shoot up 4 pain patches at one  
time, the first thing out of his mouth is, "HOW IS HE NOT  
DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!" I think believe I done even more then that, I think  
up to 5, that's 50mg of fentanyl, if they would have tested my blood  
at the morgue, they would have said, MY GOD, HOW THE FUCK!!! MAN, THIS  
GUY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE, DID HE!!!

NOPE!! not in the pain I was in, SURE FUCKING DIDN'T!!!!!

Oh, well I lived, nobody I even known as done near and much as I done  
and lived, nobody!!!! 50mg of fentanyl, and enough to kill a city  
block!!! or a family of elephants!!! That's as real as it gets, it  
doesn't get any realer that, my friends......





O
n May 2, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:

> Sitka,
> your answers
> I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marijuana (finest  
> green) when I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I  
> did not use the pot that I would probably go to 600 mg or more.  
> After the surgery my surgeon came to my bed. He told me That during  
> the procedure my body was using the anastisha  Like water. The  
> Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically good hash enhanced  
> the opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns to a white  
> ash in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil so they  
> can sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes it giving  
> them more product.
> On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>
>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
>> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
>> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with chemicals  
>> other than THC.
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting any  
>> deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own or you  
>> are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a joke).  
>> Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>
>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>> arizona daily star
>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>
>>
>>
>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot  
>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of  
>> non-profit "dispensaries."
>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more serious  
>> addictions.
>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>> weigh-in on the issue.
>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering and  
>> dying."
>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
>> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could  
>> not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
>> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
>> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on  
>> the state level, it would be legal.
>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"  
>> Myers said.
>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana  
>> - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
>> the threat of losing their license.
>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements  
>> in the measure to win voters over. The state could only issue  
>> licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within 500  
>> feet of a school.
>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
>> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
>> But some are still skeptical.
>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem  
>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>> California - are prone to abuse.
>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
>> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
>> dangerous than pot.
>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater  
>> societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she  
>> said.
>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Donzo
>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/20690935/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 00:46:23 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 23:46:23 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>

To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to,  
keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!!  
WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!

Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one  
doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly  
dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA,  
so I think these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much  
as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too  
doggy, dog. That the problem and its because of the pressure from the  
DEA, I mean, these people know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE  
DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the  
reason they shorting people, that and the drug war keeps good people  
out of it, that would do people right!!

That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the  
worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!!  
even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very  
extremely sad time we are living in right now!!

I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
praying about it.

I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying  
for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its  
just too unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison,  
its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain  
fucking wrong!!!

They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just fucked!!!
On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:

> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with chemicals  
> other than THC.
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting any  
> deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own or you  
> are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a joke).  
> Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>
> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
> By Daniel Scarpinato
> arizona daily star
> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>
>
>
> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or  
> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter  
> approval gets its way next year.
> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot  
> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of  
> non-profit "dispensaries."
> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering  
> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have  
> long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full  
> legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more serious  
> addictions.
> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark  
> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in  
> on the issue.
> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It  
> provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering and  
> dying."
> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could  
> not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is  
> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the  
> state level, it would be legal.
> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"  
> Myers said.
> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana  
> - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
> the threat of losing their license.
> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements  
> in the measure to win voters over. The state could only issue  
> licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within 500  
> feet of a school.
> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
> But some are still skeptical.
> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem  
> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
> California - are prone to abuse.
> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
> dangerous than pot.
> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater  
> societal effects she sees from alcohol.
> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she  
> said.
> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Donzo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/1779dd74/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 01:20:06 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 22:20:06 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <5A672EC6-CA66-4012-9203-A40327631D8F@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
	<5A672EC6-CA66-4012-9203-A40327631D8F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905022220u1322c8b2nc03e3f2c55f867db@mail.gmail.com>

I just used bubble bags for the trim and made honey oil and hash butter out
of the not so pretty mini flowers here and there.
For me cannabis is a psychedelic, if I eat it I've gone as far as having
past life and en utero memories, very intense, highly vulnerable and can go
on as long as 10 hours.   Being I'm so sensitive to it, I use it about 2
times a month, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.  My
personal reasoning behind this, is that my ethical stance on the reality we
have created is so against my own truth that anything that makes me that
vulnerable will tend to aid in my hiding in my room all the damned time.. I
sorta need my structured ego to function in this mess.. though I'd gladly
give up this little game :)  I really really really just wanna trust people,
. . .  OH and be trusted, but that seems to be tricky business on this
planet.

Anyway, If these folks are selling out of warehouse grows, they should be
making really good money.  Even after they pay off their legal staff (blood
sucking leaches also ;) .  If they really have to pay all this money for
lawyers, can't they find a few that will challenge these laws on the simple
basis of them being TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL?!!!!?


As far as the Dr.'s and cannabis thing, I have a friend in Seattle that uses
a pain Dr and they have the most extensive drug test I've ever heard of,
even LSD is on that list, it breaks things down so they know just what
opiates you are taking and just about how much you have in you're
system.. insane.. plus it cost my friend 300 dollars whenever they pop a
test on him.  That is kinda crappy.  Seems in Washington they don't seem to
mind if you have Cannabis in your system, but I'm sure that isn't so true in
places where you can't get a medical card.




On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Look up hemp oil. its spose to very good for the health and its got strong
> dose of THC in it, but most people with health problems use the very least
> to not look like a quote unquote "addict" even if its not legal where they
> do it.
> Which is a good Idea if anybody want to grow there own and not be looked
> like as a "addict" not to say the law wouldn't fuck you anyway.. In my state
> they would probably cut off my dick and mail it to the DA for the fuck the
> it!! no matter what I used it for....
>
> My doctor would most likely, TELL ME "YOUR FIRED" If I had THC in my
> system, even it was helping me. But not the doc, as much as it the fear,
> that the DEA could come i n and say, you were helping a fucking addict,
> knowingly!!!!
>
> Which would be Totally bull shit! because I got paper and everything saying
> the nothing more the stupid ass urologist(COMPLETELY IDIOTS!! WHEN IT COMES
> TO IC(A RARE BLADDER DISEASE, THAT MEN TEND TO GET WORSE!!!)
> But, then again, my black doc, was addicted to smack, dilaudid, coke,
> speed, everything possible, and I believe a person in the waiting room told
> me he got busted 3 different time for dilaudid, and coke, and then again, 3
> different DWI's!!!!! one in the past few years. The mans, been through
> HELL!!!
>
> So, I would kind of understand a guy who been through that much shit+black
> at that!! not wanting even take one min worth of a chance on "ME" "for his"
> fucking MD!!!! That he worked LIKE A DOG!! AND IN THE TIME RACAL CRAZY
> SHITE, YOU WOULD EVEN WANT TO THINK ABOUT!!  How my man got his MD, I WILL
> NEVER KNOW....... EVER!!!!
>
> Its crazy he even write anything at all really, I don't know if I would
> have the ball to write shit after going through all that!! He must really
> believe in what is doing, I can't see how couldn't!! I mean, no body in my
> town does what that man dose, NOBODY!!!!
>
> give me Testosterone shots, which no damm doctor around here will fucking
> do, even for god damm low fucking lest!!! So man, the guys a good guy, he
> doesn't let me control the shots, he to fearful. Which is mostly BULL SHIT!!
> THAT THEY BEEN PROGRAMED TO BELIEVE!!!! But to be fare, shit does happen, in
> the wrong person, wrong mind set, wrong body chem, and you never know, you
> just might have made a monster you can't control(which is largely BS, but
> you just never know how people are going to do on that shit, it can change
> you mood, and it could possible lead to health problems in not respected.
>
> Plus the whole needle(me use it my self, kind of freaks him out, possible
> not clean off right, get a infection, and mean all these things have to
> looked at. Because even if legal act was not taken, he still could be sued,
> anybody can sue anybody, OVER ANYTHING!!!
>
> Plus I am on amphetamine(adderall) and that constricts the blood vessels,
> and steroids(steroid not made by the body) tend to rise the blood pressure,
> so you got the combo to think about, which could lead to stroke. so I got
> quite a cocktail that could harm if not really watched closely, so I see him
> point, even though i thinks its mostly BS.
>
> But, I am older and less of a stupid ass, and don't just throw what ever in
> my body and just "SEE WHAT HAPPENS", type of guy anymore at 32, I just don't
> think stupid anymore, I tend to plan my meds out, and really wait it out
> before going in there and "requesting" "all this shite" !(Which completely
> different to "ordering" MD to give you what ever you "think" you might
> need............ Example ordering a MD to give dilaudid, or straight
> fentanyl, which they might as well just say here is you heroin you just
> asked for, have FUN!! :O) Yea, I doctor saying that, yea right...
>
> Well, to be fare dilaudid a good pain killer, and you use way less, but man
> its so addictive!!! So is fentanyl, I swear, fentanyl is dead up like
> heroin, I mean dead up like it. I mean I kind of feel don't even have to try
> heroin, man, I done 4 100mcg(which mean its give out 100 "micro" grams per
> hour) 1 100mcg spose last 72, but doesn't, should last at least 48hr though,
> patch is 10mg, so I did 40mg at one time!!! and 100 micro grams can and will
> kill!!! I my self have never known anybody to ever live after shooting one
> whole patch 10mg, never!!
>
> When my mother told my pain doctor I shoot up 4 pain patches at one time,
> the first thing out of his mouth is, "HOW IS HE NOT DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!" I
> think believe I done even more then that, I think up to 5, that's 50mg of
> fentanyl, if they would have tested my blood at the morgue, they would have
> said, MY GOD, HOW THE FUCK!!! MAN, THIS GUY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE, DID
> HE!!!
>
> NOPE!! not in the pain I was in, SURE FUCKING DIDN'T!!!!!
>
> Oh, well I lived, nobody I even known as done near and much as I done and
> lived, nobody!!!! 50mg of fentanyl, and enough to kill a city block!!! or a
> family of elephants!!! That's as real as it gets, it doesn't get any realer
> that, my friends......
>
>
>
>
>
> O
> n May 2, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>
> Sitka,your answers
> I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marijuana (finest green) when
> I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I did not use the pot
> that I would probably go to 600 mg or more. After the surgery my surgeon
> came to my bed. He told me That during the procedure my body was using the
> anastisha  Like water. The Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically
> good hash enhanced the opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns
> to a white ash in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil so
> they can sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes it giving
> them more product.
>
> On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>
> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
> do with chemicals other than THC.
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help with
>> less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down. Then
>> it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>
>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>> arizona daily star
>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or even
>>> grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter approval
>>> gets its way next year.
>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>> "dispensaries."
>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering from
>>> serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long argued
>>> legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug they
>>> see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>> issue.
>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at the
>>> non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they could
>>> grow the drug in their own home.
>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>> it would be legal.
>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship," Myers
>>> said.
>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>> losing their license.
>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>> are prone to abuse.
>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>> than pot.
>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state shouldn't
>>> try to be "medical arbiters."
>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she said.
>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Donzo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090502/7fc95767/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Sun May  3 03:01:41 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:01:41 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>

James,
I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge cash  
cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets  
seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24  
years old.

On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:

> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to,  
> keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!!  
> WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>
> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the  
> one doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were  
> truly dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for  
> the DEA, so I think these people think, like drug dealers still,  
> makes as much as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's the  
> problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the problem and its because  
> of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people know at ANY TIME,  
> THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE OUT ALL  
> THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and  
> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>
> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out  
> the worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in  
> general!! even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its  
> very, very extremely sad time we are living in right now!!
>
> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
> praying about it.
>
> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying  
> for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its  
> just too unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison,  
> its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain  
> fucking wrong!!!
>
> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just  
> fucked!!!
> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>
>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
>> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
>> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with chemicals  
>> other than THC.
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting any  
>> deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own or you  
>> are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a joke).  
>> Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>
>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>> arizona daily star
>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>
>>
>>
>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot  
>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of  
>> non-profit "dispensaries."
>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more serious  
>> addictions.
>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>> weigh-in on the issue.
>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering and  
>> dying."
>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
>> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could  
>> not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
>> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
>> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on  
>> the state level, it would be legal.
>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"  
>> Myers said.
>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana  
>> - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
>> the threat of losing their license.
>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements  
>> in the measure to win voters over. The state could only issue  
>> licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within 500  
>> feet of a school.
>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
>> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
>> But some are still skeptical.
>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem  
>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>> California - are prone to abuse.
>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
>> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
>> dangerous than pot.
>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater  
>> societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she  
>> said.
>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Donzo
>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/6727980e/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 08:53:57 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 07:53:57 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2DF79022-61DE-4331-BCFA-D7E5D8CDC197@gmail.com>

doesn't surprise me at all!!!!

yea, I  wonder what they had to pay to get out of it!!! lawyer are not  
cheap!!! Court cost, ect, ect, ect,ect, ball, you name it!! You see  
that's the problem, there just too much "risk" involved still!! THAT'S  
THE FUCKING PROBLEM!! its the risk!!! factor!! That's why they are  
charging all this money!! IT'S HIGH RISK!! Still not right to do, but  
its just the way it is.

You know better then anything in the stock market, the pay off is high  
when the risk is high!!! but its the risk you take!!! You not going to  
get the church lady down the street doing this type of business, you  
know!! That's the problem! The problem is the DEA!! They make the  
price go up!! its all about the risk involved, that's why they  
charging this. They feel, hey, I better make as much money as possible  
while I can, because chances are, its not going to be life long......  
Example the DEA!!!!! coming in with gun to my fucking head!!! Might  
even end up shot!!("unforeseen" "medical bills!!!!!!") its does, and  
can VERY WELL HAPPEN!!!

Again, I been through a illness, so no, I wouldn't be charge that, I  
be charging a fare price. But, I would have to make enough to keep  
fucking "high paid lawyer"  "on the fucking pay roll!!!" I am sorry  
folks, its the world we live in!!! I do think these dispensaries are  
dogging people out, yea, but man, "ITS STILL NOT LEGAL!!!!!!!" Even in  
the state where it legal!! "FEDERAL!!! LAW" "IT'S STILL ILLEGAL", AND  
THAT MEANS AT "ANY TIME" THEY CAN COME IN "GUNS DRAWN" AND TAKE  
"EVERYTHING"!!! "YOU FUCKING OWN!!!" "EVERYTHING!!" I MEAN, THEY VERY  
WELL CAN!!

I work very close to police my self, and i have to watch what I say, I  
want to get on the fire debt. and I am going to try once my EMT class  
is over. I Passed it before, but I let it go(got to get so many hours  
every 2 years!! or I lose it!!) Its a real bitch going through it  
again. But I am learning a shit load that I would not have learn other  
wise. So its good for me. But I don't like paying the money over again.

But yea, I talked to ohio township fire debt guy(he believe people  
should hang for drugs, I am talking death!!!! The real deal!! hang for  
a tree!! in front of the world on TV!!!!), and his sons a cop(It's the  
whole us against you type cowboy thing!!), I don't know his son. I bet  
I met him though..... But he said if you have a pound of pot in the  
State of IN, they can take your fucking house!!!
its that a bitch or what!! That could be a few god damm plants, in  
their eyes, because here, I bet they would weigh the damm "soil"  
too!!  and really try to fuck your ass to hell, yea, put you out of  
business, in jail then out on the fucking street!!!!!!(oh that's  
helpful.....)

I told the ohio township guy in my class, that I don't believe in the  
drug war, I don't think he likes my views at all.. well people like me  
are not going away I tell you that, I will tell people my fucking  
views!!!! people need to start "thinking about this in a "logical"  
manner!!!. what better way to do that then to debate it, WHAT A BETTER  
WAY TO HELP GET PEOPLE TO FUCKING SEE!!!! THEY FUCKING STUPID!!!!(yea,  
i think he hates me, oh well, fuck it, I don't care.....) However, I  
do know, Meth is a big problem in the State of Indiana. its a major  
mess!! I don't do meth, and really can't stand the shit myself really,  
I think its the most toxic shit on the fucking damm planet!!!! It  
because of all the crap they make it with!! they makes so of the  
foulest house hold chemical I ever seen!! All probably soooo high in  
lead, and other heavy metals!! I mean, do you really think drain  
cleaner was meant for consumption by humans, FUCK NO!!!
(I told the whole class straight faced I thought it should be  
legalized, all of it, they all about went nuts on me, yea, I thought  
your the fucking dumb asses!!!)

Plus the acid, with the plastic crap the cooked it in and all the  
other shit(the plastic too gets in the final product), I mean, its  
just soo unsafe it not even funny!!

But anyways, just in the last week we had, "2-3 toxic spills"(had to  
be cleaned out of their homes and what not!! its a mess!!! We, are  
talking whole city blocks had to move out of there homes and stay else  
where, because these fucker's are looking up farmer's and stealing the  
shit to make the stuff!! namely anhydrous ammonia(which is very toxic  
if not properly used, which we all know, these people are not using  
the shit properly.

I don't even understand how they make it. I heard its not that hard,  
but still, I don't have a clue how to make meth!!! Would not know the  
first thing of how to make it..... And then to not have all the right  
chemicals and stuff to make it safely, man, I wouldn't have a clue....

In Evansville, its gotten so bad, these police even know where meth  
labs are, and they don't even care anymore, I guess because they just  
all know, they can't really stop it..........  and i kind  
"think"(which I could be very wrong) they feel sorry for these poor  
people, and dont' want to lock them up.. But if they see it in plain  
site, they're a goner for sure!!! They will be going to jail, and do  
not pass go, do not collect a 100$, straight to jail....

But, i think most of these cops know, they can't stop it.. I think  
they all know its a impossible job to try and stop it all. They simply  
just can't!! its too wide spread, there no way, they stopping it.
and every time the try restrict cold meds more, or other chemical used  
to make meth, they just use other shit, more toxic shit!! and thus  
damaging their health even more!!! or they resort to stealing chem.  
from farmers, thus making it un safe for people when the bust open the  
anhydrous tanks, leaving "a wake of destruction" every where!!!!

You see, this is the fucking problem with making the shit illegal and  
banning it, even as much I wound not care too see the shit sold out  
right out in plan view at the conner store buying high grade meth, but  
this is the alternative, toxic chemical spill"'s" pleura  ON A  
"DAYLY!!!!!!"(not, tri,or bi monthly, not monthly, not weekly, but  
FUCKING "DAYLY!!!!!!!!") Where people have to leave there homes, and  
poor farmers have to pay for more fertilizer and clean up the spill,  
and it destruction on the soil where they spilled the shite!!!!!!!  
PROHIBITION JUST MAKES IT MORE UNSAFE FOR "EVERYBODY", "MAINLY THE  
POOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!" IT JUST DOES!! AND THIS IS THE  
TYPE OF SHITE WHY!!!

To be honest, and real, and straight the fuck up, I was a pain patient  
that lost his freaken mind!!(THAT, AND I REALY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT  
THOSE ADDCIT WOUDL DO TO ME IF I GOT FUCKED UP AND AROUND THEM!!!.. I  
REALLY DIDN'T, TALKING ABOUT  3 YEAR AFTER I FUCKNG CRACKED IN FRONT  
OF THE "POLICE"  WITH 357 MAG TO MY HEAD)from the god damm sick ass  
treatment no pain med, we know your fucked, but we don't want you on  
pain meds, hope you don't blow your fucking brain out, stupid ass  
urologist, fucking worthless piece of shite!! fucking dumb ass jack in  
box mother fucking box full of rocks!!! idiots mother fucking stupid  
ass, less the worthless ass crazy idiot, nut jobs of stupid piece of  
shite, dumb ass, tell me you just picked this disease just to get  
fucking pain meds type shite, while my bitch goes and sucks some other  
guys dick in fucking front of my ass, while my fucking dick it feeling  
like it going to spontaneously combust, blow up into a million piece,  
while ending up in A fucking mental ward from putting a 375 mag to my  
head after having "a stand off" "with the EPD Evansville POLICE  
debt.!!!" because I was in sooo much stupid ass fucking pain, while my  
fucking bitch went to go fuck another dude and while my Dad told me to  
go fuck my self in ass sorry about collage you done!!!("pretty bad  
son!!!!" his words!!! quote from my ass hole father "if make you feel  
any better then thing breaks up 20 year marriages!!" and I not helping  
you, Sorry I told the family you did'nt have a disease(to make my  
father look good) that I was just make the shit up, you dropped the  
fuck out, your fucked(while i live in a 700k house in the fucking hill  
with my baby sitter gold digger of a bitch ass step mother!!!!, type  
shit!!! and then the stupid ass uro puts fucking BLEACH AND ALL TYPE  
OF OTHER CRAZY SHITE MY BLADDER AND FUCKNG WONDERS WHY I got FUCKED  
OUT OF MY MIND ON CRAZY DOSES OF PAIN MEDS!! TYPES SHIT!! I FUCKING  
CRACKED!!!!! I JUST FUCKING DID!!!!!!  FUCKING CRACKED!!! HOW THE FUCK  
WOULDN'T ANYBODY!!!! ALL AT  
21!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I ever had kids, I wouldn't want them to use hardcore drugs, or any  
drugs for matter(not that i even see kids in my future, I thinks if  
over for me, Im too mentally fuck up at this point to even want kids),  
and it would kill me to see a kid that i wouldn't ever have, choose a  
fucked up path, It would kill me!!! BUT!!! I just still believe  
prohibition does not make it any safer for our kids to live in this  
horrible ass world we live in, if anything is makes it "more unsafe!!!!"
And I just don't have the money for that type of shite!!! Nor do I  
have a house, but if I had a house and I was anywhere near involved  
with that shite, you bet!! mother fucker!! you bet!! all that and  
more!!! Maybe a
damm mini gun at the door way, out front and if the try to even look  
like they are breaking my a computer would sound the mini gun, and  
blast them to tiny, little fucking pieces!!!! I hate to be that way,  
but, man, I been jacked one to many fucking times!!! and I fucking  
can't stand addicts that steal from their god damm, spose to be good  
fucking friends!! and that one of the mainly reason I quit fucking  
with it!! IT was that!!

And as much I  
"reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't like drugs addict" in  
"my stupid ass river idiot, stupid fucking piece of worthless shit  
town"(I got lucky, and met "the worsed!!" bunch of fucked up people in  
my city!! Ryan aka "pill way!!" and Huckleberry!!! aka Huckle and oh  
yea Robey the 1st vampire-that sadly OD'd"LESS THEN A MONTH" BEFORE "I  
PREDICTED IT with a friend that grew up with him!!!!!!"can't say I  
miss the fuck much, hate to say it, sorry to talk bad about the dead,  
but the fuck had it coming and was a real scum bag!! beat this girl  
friend, GOT OFF ON FUCKING PEOPLE UP!! LIVED FOR IT!!!!, ANYTHING TO  
FUCK ANOTHER PERSON UP, HE LOVE, BE IT JACK, BREAK IN TAKE EVERYTHING  
FOR FUN, BEAT HIS GIRL TO DEALTH for the pain fuck of it, PISS ON THE  
WORLD, GET PEOPLE THAT NEVER TRIED SHOOTING UP TO DO IT!! OH HE LIVE  
FOR THAT!! LIVE FOR IT!!, OR JUST OVER ALL JUST BEING A JACK ASS!! AND  
HAVE FUN FUCKING UP PEOPLE MENTALLY!!!, No I don't miss that fuck!!! , ,

  I think I met the worse people in "all"(pop. of around  
400,000-500,000, maybe less then a million all around my city and  
small towns that pretty much part of  my town, LUCKLY ME!! AND THEY  
FUCKED THE SHITE OUT OF ME!!! I MEAN!!! FUCKED, FUCKED, FUCKED,  
FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!!  
FUCKED!! THE LIVING HOLLY MOTHER OF FUCKING GOD DAMM MOTHER FUCKING  
SHITE, UN BELIEVABLE, CAN'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK, PISS ON  
MY FACE AND SHITE DONW MY NECK, UN BELIEVABLE TYPE SHITE YOU EVER  
FUCKING SEEN, JACK 'D JACK, QUACK D QUACK NUTS JOBS YOUR FUCKING EVER  
FUCKING SEEN IN YOUR FUCKING LIFE!!!!, many of them I can't stand to  
even look at, let alone be the fuck around.(or get jacked!!!!!!  
FUCKING CLEANED THE FUCK OUT!!!!, IF THEY FIND OUT WHER YOU LIVE!!!!,  
YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD DAMM "SECURITY SYSTEM!!" I MEAN "A DAMM FUCKING  
GOOD ONE", WITH A "BIG ASS DOG!!" AND FEW "SHOT GUNS" AND WHAT NOT!!  
YOU BETTER MOTHER FUCKER!!!!
So I can understand where law enforcement has no fucking mercy on  
those fucks!!! I mean, I see both sides!! But at the end of the day,  
like with your day trading, I really believe prohibition is the reason  
for all this shite!!!!!! These stupid ass, crazy ass addicts do.....  
mostly i mean, its helping things, I tell you that!!!

Would some people still do it anyway, yea!! they fucking would, but  
would there be less of it, yes, I believe there would!! Try and make  
alcohol illegal and see what happens!! you be seeing the same thing,  
but with drunks stealing for booze!!!!! Its the same model!! When you  
make something illegal its make the "price sore!!!!!" "sky fucking  
HIGH!!!!", I'M talking at the "FEDERAL" LEVEL!!!!! Fuck state law, the  
state have no real power over the drug laws, not really, some, but not  
enough to stop the FEDS from storming in and with guns dawn, and  
cleaning house!!!! RUING YOUR FUCKING GOD DAMM LIFE!!!!

The FEDERAL LAWS HAVE GOT TO CHANGE, THESE STATE LAWS ARE A GOOD  
START, BUT MAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, ITS STILL FUCKING ILLEGAL!!!!  
ALL OVER THE GOD DAMM "FEDERAL LAWS!!!!!!!"
THAT'S THE GOD DAMM PROBLEM!!!

OUR FOREFATHER WHO SPILLED THI'ER FUCKING GUTS"  intestine and liver,  
and penises', and legs, arms, brain, kidney's, blood!!! DNA!!!! ON  
THIS SOIL AND FOREIGN SOIL, FOUGH FOR A LTTLE SOMETHING CALLED  
"FREEDOM" SOME PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF  
IT................................ MAYBE, maybe some people have heard  
of that work, hmmm I guess the DEA didn't get that memo, I guess not!!!
MAYBE THE DEA SHOULD LOOK THAT WORD UP!!!!!!

Again, and I forefather who wrote the a little something called the  
"declaration of independence"  and the fucking "constitution" never,  
EVER WANTED THE FEDERAL GOV. TO GET NEAR AS BIG AS IT HAS!!! and  
control our lives the way its has done!!!!!!! NEVER!!!  OUR FOREFATHER  
WOULD "BE ROLING IN THEIR GRAVE AT HOW THE FEDERAL GOV. HAS GOT SOOO  
BIG!! that is tell people what to ingest and what not too!!!" IT WAS  
NEVER SPOSE TO GET THIS WAY!!!

honestly, I don't have a problem with the un natural drugs being  
illegal, but I still think its a mistake to "ban"(meaning not going to  
solve shite!!!) such drugs, but its just my 2 cents.

I just don't not believe for one min!! WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOLE!!  
NATURAL PLANTS THAT COME FROM THE GROUND and from "God him self" or  
"the planet mother ship earth" for non believers(which ever you prefer  
to believe-because i don't judge anybody who doesn't believe in the  
whole God and Jesus thing-I some times myself question my own beliefs)  
WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GROW FOR ARE own PERSONAL USE!!!! MAYBE NOT TO  
START UP A OPUIM BUSINESS, BUT FOR PERSONAL FUCKING USE!!!(MEANING FOR  
YOU OWN NEEDS!!!!)
And they should BE FREE if it comes from nature at low price people  
can afford to pay!!!!!!!!!!(for that person that grow it)

But that's not how it is, and probably not how its ever going to be,  
but that's how I see it..... But not to piss any body off that does  
what they have to live. I mean, in a perfect world, that's what I am  
talking about....



On May 3, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:

> James,
> I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge  
> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and  
> assets seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were  
> like 24 years old.
>
> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to,  
>> keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!!  
>> WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>
>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the  
>> one doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were  
>> truly dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for  
>> the DEA, so I think these people think, like drug dealers still,  
>> makes as much as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's the  
>> problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the problem and its because  
>> of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people know at ANY  
>> TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE OUT  
>> ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that  
>> and the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people  
>> right!!
>>
>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out  
>> the worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in  
>> general!! even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its  
>> very, very extremely sad time we are living in right now!!
>>
>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
>> praying about it.
>>
>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying  
>> for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its  
>> just too unjust for people to be going away that are sick in  
>> prison, its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its  
>> just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>
>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just  
>> fucked!!!
>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>
>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
>>> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
>>> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with  
>>> chemicals other than THC.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting  
>>> any deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own  
>>> or you are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a  
>>> joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>
>>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>> arizona daily star
>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010  
>>> ballot that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a  
>>> system of non-profit "dispensaries."
>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more  
>>> serious addictions.
>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>>> weigh-in on the issue.
>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering  
>>> and dying."
>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
>>> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they  
>>> could not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
>>> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
>>> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on  
>>> the state level, it would be legal.
>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient  
>>> relationship," Myers said.
>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical  
>>> marijuana - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law  
>>> afterward.
>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
>>> the threat of losing their license.
>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other  
>>> elements in the measure to win voters over. The state could only  
>>> issue licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within  
>>> 500 feet of a school.
>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
>>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
>>> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a  
>>> problem with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>>> California - are prone to abuse.
>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
>>> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
>>> dangerous than pot.
>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the  
>>> greater societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain,"  
>>> she said.
>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000  
>>> signatures.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Donzo
>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/f8c2534c/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Sun May  3 13:03:17 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:03:17 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Finest green
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905022220u1322c8b2nc03e3f2c55f867db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
	<5A672EC6-CA66-4012-9203-A40327631D8F@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905022220u1322c8b2nc03e3f2c55f867db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <461F1545-C694-4637-9E00-A89A1BBF4638@gmail.com>

To List,
Gotta admit though when I did smoke I wanted the finest green they had  
and I got it too. Only thing I would change. I would use a vaporizer  
to eliminate toxins from smoke. After 5 months use I was gettin  
smokers morning cough. Gone now  with pot eliminationjfrom lifestyle.
On May 2, 2009, at 10:20 PM, James Forristal wrote:

> I just used bubble bags for the trim and made honey oil and hash  
> butter out of the not so pretty mini flowers here and there.
>
> For me cannabis is a psychedelic, if I eat it I've gone as far as  
> having past life and en utero memories, very intense, highly  
> vulnerable and can go on as long as 10 hours.   Being I'm so  
> sensitive to it, I use it about 2 times a month, sometimes a little  
> more, sometimes a little less.  My personal reasoning behind this,  
> is that my ethical stance on the reality we have created is so  
> against my own truth that anything that makes me that vulnerable  
> will tend to aid in my hiding in my room all the damned time.. I  
> sorta need my structured ego to function in this mess.. though I'd  
> gladly give up this little game :)  I really really really just  
> wanna trust people, . . .  OH and be trusted, but that seems to be  
> tricky business on this planet.
>
> Anyway, If these folks are selling out of warehouse grows, they  
> should be making really good money.  Even after they pay off their  
> legal staff (blood sucking leaches also ;) .  If they really have to  
> pay all this money for lawyers, can't they find a few that will  
> challenge these laws on the simple basis of them being TOTALLY  
> UNCONSTITUTIONAL?!!!!?
>
>
> As far as the Dr.'s and cannabis thing, I have a friend in Seattle  
> that uses a pain Dr and they have the most extensive drug test I've  
> ever heard of, even LSD is on that list, it breaks things down so  
> they know just what opiates you are taking and just about how much  
> you have in you're system.. insane.. plus it cost my friend 300  
> dollars whenever they pop a test on him.  That is kinda crappy.   
> Seems in Washington they don't seem to mind if you have Cannabis in  
> your system, but I'm sure that isn't so true in places where you  
> can't get a medical card.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Look up hemp oil. its spose to very good for the health and its got  
> strong dose of THC in it, but most people with health problems use  
> the very least to not look like a quote unquote "addict" even if its  
> not legal where they do it.
>
> Which is a good Idea if anybody want to grow there own and not be  
> looked like as a "addict" not to say the law wouldn't fuck you  
> anyway.. In my state they would probably cut off my dick and mail it  
> to the DA for the fuck the it!! no matter what I used it for....
>
> My doctor would most likely, TELL ME "YOUR FIRED" If I had THC in my  
> system, even it was helping me. But not the doc, as much as it the  
> fear, that the DEA could come i n and say, you were helping a  
> fucking addict, knowingly!!!!
>
> Which would be Totally bull shit! because I got paper and everything  
> saying the nothing more the stupid ass urologist(COMPLETELY IDIOTS!!  
> WHEN IT COMES TO IC(A RARE BLADDER DISEASE, THAT MEN TEND TO GET  
> WORSE!!!)
> But, then again, my black doc, was addicted to smack, dilaudid,  
> coke, speed, everything possible, and I believe a person in the  
> waiting room told me he got busted 3 different time for dilaudid,  
> and coke, and then again, 3 different DWI's!!!!! one in the past few  
> years. The mans, been through HELL!!!
>
> So, I would kind of understand a guy who been through that much shit 
> +black at that!! not wanting even take one min worth of a chance on  
> "ME" "for his" fucking MD!!!! That he worked LIKE A DOG!! AND IN THE  
> TIME RACAL CRAZY SHITE, YOU WOULD EVEN WANT TO THINK ABOUT!!  How my  
> man got his MD, I WILL NEVER KNOW....... EVER!!!!
>
> Its crazy he even write anything at all really, I don't know if I  
> would have the ball to write shit after going through all that!! He  
> must really believe in what is doing, I can't see how couldn't!! I  
> mean, no body in my town does what that man dose, NOBODY!!!!
>
> give me Testosterone shots, which no damm doctor around here will  
> fucking do, even for god damm low fucking lest!!! So man, the guys a  
> good guy, he doesn't let me control the shots, he to fearful. Which  
> is mostly BULL SHIT!! THAT THEY BEEN PROGRAMED TO BELIEVE!!!! But to  
> be fare, shit does happen, in the wrong person, wrong mind set,  
> wrong body chem, and you never know, you just might have made a  
> monster you can't control(which is largely BS, but you just never  
> know how people are going to do on that shit, it can change you  
> mood, and it could possible lead to health problems in not respected.
>
> Plus the whole needle(me use it my self, kind of freaks him out,  
> possible not clean off right, get a infection, and mean all these  
> things have to looked at. Because even if legal act was not taken,  
> he still could be sued, anybody can sue anybody, OVER ANYTHING!!!
>
> Plus I am on amphetamine(adderall) and that constricts the blood  
> vessels, and steroids(steroid not made by the body) tend to rise the  
> blood pressure, so you got the combo to think about, which could  
> lead to stroke. so I got quite a cocktail that could harm if not  
> really watched closely, so I see him point, even though i thinks its  
> mostly BS.
>
> But, I am older and less of a stupid ass, and don't just throw what  
> ever in my body and just "SEE WHAT HAPPENS", type of guy anymore at  
> 32, I just don't think stupid anymore, I tend to plan my meds out,  
> and really wait it out before going in there and "requesting" "all  
> this shite" !(Which completely different to "ordering" MD to give  
> you what ever you "think" you might need............ Example  
> ordering a MD to give dilaudid, or straight fentanyl, which they  
> might as well just say here is you heroin you just asked for, have  
> FUN!! :O) Yea, I doctor saying that, yea right...
>
> Well, to be fare dilaudid a good pain killer, and you use way less,  
> but man its so addictive!!! So is fentanyl, I swear, fentanyl is  
> dead up like heroin, I mean dead up like it. I mean I kind of feel  
> don't even have to try heroin, man, I done 4 100mcg(which mean its  
> give out 100 "micro" grams per hour) 1 100mcg spose last 72, but  
> doesn't, should last at least 48hr though, patch is 10mg, so I did  
> 40mg at one time!!! and 100 micro grams can and will kill!!! I my  
> self have never known anybody to ever live after shooting one whole  
> patch 10mg, never!!
>
> When my mother told my pain doctor I shoot up 4 pain patches at one  
> time, the first thing out of his mouth is, "HOW IS HE NOT  
> DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!" I think believe I done even more then that, I  
> think up to 5, that's 50mg of fentanyl, if they would have tested my  
> blood at the morgue, they would have said, MY GOD, HOW THE FUCK!!!  
> MAN, THIS GUY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE, DID HE!!!
>
> NOPE!! not in the pain I was in, SURE FUCKING DIDN'T!!!!!
>
> Oh, well I lived, nobody I even known as done near and much as I  
> done and lived, nobody!!!! 50mg of fentanyl, and enough to kill a  
> city block!!! or a family of elephants!!! That's as real as it gets,  
> it doesn't get any realer that, my friends......
>
>
>
>
>
> O
> n May 2, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>
>> Sitka,
>> your answers
>> I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marijuana (finest  
>> green) when I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I  
>> did not use the pot that I would probably go to 600 mg or more.  
>> After the surgery my surgeon came to my bed. He told me That during  
>> the procedure my body was using the anastisha  Like water. The  
>> Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically good hash enhanced  
>> the opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns to a  
>> white ash in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil  
>> so they can sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes  
>> it giving them more product.
>>
>> On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>
>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
>>> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
>>> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with  
>>> chemicals other than THC.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting  
>>> any deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own  
>>> or you are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a  
>>> joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>
>>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>> arizona daily star
>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010  
>>> ballot that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a  
>>> system of non-profit "dispensaries."
>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more  
>>> serious addictions.
>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>>> weigh-in on the issue.
>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering  
>>> and dying."
>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
>>> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they  
>>> could not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
>>> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
>>> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on  
>>> the state level, it would be legal.
>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient  
>>> relationship," Myers said.
>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical  
>>> marijuana - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law  
>>> afterward.
>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
>>> the threat of losing their license.
>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other  
>>> elements in the measure to win voters over. The state could only  
>>> issue licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within  
>>> 500 feet of a school.
>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
>>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
>>> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a  
>>> problem with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>>> California - are prone to abuse.
>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
>>> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
>>> dangerous than pot.
>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the  
>>> greater societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain,"  
>>> she said.
>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000  
>>> signatures.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Donzo
>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/80d40072/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 14:36:41 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:36:41 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <2DF79022-61DE-4331-BCFA-D7E5D8CDC197@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<2DF79022-61DE-4331-BCFA-D7E5D8CDC197@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905031136g18cba5e3s894365bf9631d3c2@mail.gmail.com>

And sometimes the pay off is high when a few people have the market cornered
and they can fuck over whoever they'd like! ;)

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:53 AM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> doesn't surprise me at all!!!!
> yea, I  wonder what they had to pay to get out of it!!! lawyer are not
> cheap!!! Court cost, ect, ect, ect,ect, ball, you name it!! You see that's
> the problem, there just too much "risk" involved still!! THAT'S THE FUCKING
> PROBLEM!! its the risk!!! factor!! That's why they are charging all this
> money!! IT'S HIGH RISK!! Still not right to do, but its just the way it is.
>
> You know better then anything in the stock market, the pay off is high when
> the risk is high!!! but its the risk you take!!! You not going to get the
> church lady down the street doing this type of business, you know!! That's
> the problem! The problem is the DEA!! They make the price go up!! its all
> about the risk involved, that's why they charging this. They feel, hey, I
> better make as much money as possible while I can, because chances are, its
> not going to be life long...... Example the DEA!!!!! coming in with gun to
> my fucking head!!! Might even end up shot!!("unforeseen" "medical
> bills!!!!!!") its does, and can VERY WELL HAPPEN!!!
>
> Again, I been through a illness, so no, I wouldn't be charge that, I be
> charging a fare price. But, I would have to make enough to keep fucking
> "high paid lawyer"  "on the fucking pay roll!!!" I am sorry folks, its the
> world we live in!!! I do think these dispensaries are dogging people out,
> yea, but man, "ITS STILL NOT LEGAL!!!!!!!" Even in the state where it
> legal!! "FEDERAL!!! LAW" "IT'S STILL ILLEGAL", AND THAT MEANS AT "ANY TIME"
> THEY CAN COME IN "GUNS DRAWN" AND TAKE "EVERYTHING"!!! "YOU FUCKING OWN!!!"
> "EVERYTHING!!" I MEAN, THEY VERY WELL CAN!!
>
> I work very close to police my self, and i have to watch what I say, I want
> to get on the fire debt. and I am going to try once my EMT class is over. I
> Passed it before, but I let it go(got to get so many hours every 2 years!!
> or I lose it!!) Its a real bitch going through it again. But I am learning a
> shit load that I would not have learn other wise. So its good for me. But I
> don't like paying the money over again.
>
> But yea, I talked to ohio township fire debt guy(he believe people should
> hang for drugs, I am talking death!!!! The real deal!! hang for a tree!! in
> front of the world on TV!!!!), and his sons a cop(It's the whole us against
> you type cowboy thing!!), I don't know his son. I bet I met him though.....
> But he said if you have a pound of pot in the State of IN, they can take
> your fucking house!!!
> its that a bitch or what!! That could be a few god damm plants, in their
> eyes, because here, I bet they would weigh the damm "soil" too!!  and really
> try to fuck your ass to hell, yea, put you out of business, in jail then out
> on the fucking street!!!!!!(oh that's helpful.....)
>
> I told the ohio township guy in my class, that I don't believe in the drug
> war, I don't think he likes my views at all.. well people like me are not
> going away I tell you that, I will tell people my fucking views!!!! people
> need to start "thinking about this in a "logical" manner!!!. what better way
> to do that then to debate it, WHAT A BETTER WAY TO HELP GET PEOPLE TO
> FUCKING SEE!!!! THEY FUCKING STUPID!!!!(yea, i think he hates me, oh well,
> fuck it, I don't care.....) However, I do know, Meth is a big problem in the
> State of Indiana. its a major mess!! I don't do meth, and really can't stand
> the shit myself really, I think its the most toxic shit on the fucking damm
> planet!!!! It because of all the crap they make it with!! they makes so of
> the foulest house hold chemical I ever seen!! All probably soooo high in
> lead, and other heavy metals!! I mean, do you really think drain cleaner was
> meant for consumption by humans, FUCK NO!!!
> (I told the whole class straight faced I thought it should be legalized,
> all of it, they all about went nuts on me, yea, I thought your the fucking
> dumb asses!!!)
>
> Plus the acid, with the plastic crap the cooked it in and all the other
> shit(the plastic too gets in the final product), I mean, its just soo unsafe
> it not even funny!!
>
> But anyways, just in the last week we had, "2-3 toxic spills"(had to be
> cleaned out of their homes and what not!! its a mess!!! We, are talking
> whole city blocks had to move out of there homes and stay else where,
> because these fucker's are looking up farmer's and stealing the shit to make
> the stuff!! namely anhydrous ammonia(which is very toxic if not properly
> used, which we all know, these people are not using the shit properly.
>
> I don't even understand how they make it. I heard its not that hard, but
> still, I don't have a clue how to make meth!!! Would not know the first
> thing of how to make it..... And then to not have all the right chemicals
> and stuff to make it safely, man, I wouldn't have a clue....
>
> In Evansville, its gotten so bad, these police even know where meth labs
> are, and they don't even care anymore, I guess because they just all know,
> they can't really stop it..........  and i kind "think"(which I could be
> very wrong) they feel sorry for these poor people, and dont' want to lock
> them up.. But if they see it in plain site, they're a goner for sure!!! They
> will be going to jail, and do not pass go, do not collect a 100$, straight
> to jail....
>
> But, i think most of these cops know, they can't stop it.. I think they all
> know its a impossible job to try and stop it all. They simply just can't!!
> its too wide spread, there no way, they stopping it.
> and every time the try restrict cold meds more, or other chemical used to
> make meth, they just use other shit, more toxic shit!! and thus damaging
> their health even more!!! or they resort to stealing chem. from farmers,
> thus making it un safe for people when the bust open the anhydrous tanks,
> leaving "a wake of destruction" every where!!!!
>
> You see, this is the fucking problem with making the shit illegal and
> banning it, even as much I wound not care too see the shit sold out right
> out in plan view at the conner store buying high grade meth, but this is
> the alternative, toxic chemical spill"'s" pleura  ON A "DAYLY!!!!!!"(not,
> tri,or bi monthly, not monthly, not weekly, but FUCKING "DAYLY!!!!!!!!")
> Where people have to leave there homes, and poor farmers have to pay for
> more fertilizer and clean up the spill, and it destruction on the soil where
> they spilled the shite!!!!!!! PROHIBITION JUST MAKES IT MORE UNSAFE FOR
> "EVERYBODY", "MAINLY THE POOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!" IT JUST DOES!!
> AND THIS IS THE TYPE OF SHITE WHY!!!
>
> To be honest, and real, and straight the fuck up, I was a pain patient that
> lost his freaken mind!!(THAT, AND I REALY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE
> ADDCIT WOUDL DO TO ME IF I GOT FUCKED UP AND AROUND THEM!!!.. I REALLY
> DIDN'T, TALKING ABOUT  3 YEAR AFTER I FUCKNG CRACKED IN FRONT OF THE
> "POLICE"  WITH 357 MAG TO MY HEAD)from the god damm sick ass treatment no
> pain med, we know your fucked, but we don't want you on pain meds, hope you
> don't blow your fucking brain out, stupid ass urologist, fucking worthless
> piece of shite!! fucking dumb ass jack in box mother fucking box full of
> rocks!!! idiots mother fucking stupid ass, less the worthless ass crazy
> idiot, nut jobs of stupid piece of shite, dumb ass, tell me you just picked
> this disease just to get fucking pain meds type shite, while my bitch goes
> and sucks some other guys dick in fucking front of my ass, while my fucking
> dick it feeling like it going to spontaneously combust, blow up into a
> million piece, while ending up in A fucking mental ward from putting a 375
> mag to my head after having "a stand off" "with the EPD Evansville POLICE
> debt.!!!" because I was in sooo much stupid ass fucking pain, while my
> fucking bitch went to go fuck another dude and while my Dad told me to go
> fuck my self in ass sorry about collage you done!!!("pretty bad son!!!!" his
> words!!! quote from my ass hole father "if make you feel any better then
> thing breaks up 20 year marriages!!" and I not helping you, Sorry I told the
> family you did'nt have a disease(to make my father look good) that I was
> just make the shit up, you dropped the fuck out, your fucked(while i live in
> a 700k house in the fucking hill with my baby sitter gold digger of a bitch
> ass step mother!!!!, type shit!!! and then the stupid ass uro puts fucking
> BLEACH AND ALL TYPE OF OTHER CRAZY SHITE MY BLADDER AND FUCKNG WONDERS WHY I
> got FUCKED OUT OF MY MIND ON CRAZY DOSES OF PAIN MEDS!! TYPES SHIT!! I
> FUCKING CRACKED!!!!! I JUST FUCKING DID!!!!!!  FUCKING CRACKED!!! HOW THE
> FUCK WOULDN'T ANYBODY!!!! ALL AT
> 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> If I ever had kids, I wouldn't want them to use hardcore drugs, or any
> drugs for matter(not that i even see kids in my future, I thinks if over for
> me, Im too mentally fuck up at this point to even want kids), and it would
> kill me to see a kid that i wouldn't ever have, choose a fucked up path, It
> would kill me!!! BUT!!! I just still believe prohibition does not make it
> any safer for our kids to live in this horrible ass world we live in, if
> anything is makes it "more unsafe!!!!"
> And I just don't have the money for that type of shite!!! Nor do I have a
> house, but if I had a house and I was anywhere near involved with that
> shite, you bet!! mother fucker!! you bet!! all that and more!!! Maybe a
> damm mini gun at the door way, out front and if the try to even look like
> they are breaking my a computer would sound the mini gun, and blast them to
> tiny, little fucking pieces!!!! I hate to be that way, but, man, I been
> jacked one to many fucking times!!! and I fucking can't stand addicts that
> steal from their god damm, spose to be good fucking friends!! and that one
> of the mainly reason I quit fucking with it!! IT was that!!
>
> And as much I
> "reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> don't like drugs addict" in "my stupid ass river idiot, stupid fucking piece
> of worthless shit town"(I got lucky, and met "the worsed!!" bunch of fucked
> up people in my city!! Ryan aka "pill way!!" and Huckleberry!!! aka Huckle
> and oh yea Robey the 1st vampire-that sadly OD'd"LESS THEN A MONTH" BEFORE
> "I PREDICTED IT with a friend that grew up with him!!!!!!"can't say I miss
> the fuck much, hate to say it, sorry to talk bad about the dead, but the
> fuck had it coming and was a real scum bag!! beat this girl friend, GOT OFF
> ON FUCKING PEOPLE UP!! LIVED FOR IT!!!!, ANYTHING TO FUCK ANOTHER PERSON UP,
> HE LOVE, BE IT JACK, BREAK IN TAKE EVERYTHING FOR FUN, BEAT HIS GIRL TO
> DEALTH for the pain fuck of it, PISS ON THE WORLD, GET PEOPLE THAT NEVER
> TRIED SHOOTING UP TO DO IT!! OH HE LIVE FOR THAT!! LIVE FOR IT!!, OR JUST
> OVER ALL JUST BEING A JACK ASS!! AND HAVE FUN FUCKING UP PEOPLE MENTALLY!!!,
> No I don't miss that fuck!!! , ,
>
>  I think I met the worse people in "all"(pop. of around 400,000-500,000,
> maybe less then a million all around my city and small towns that pretty
> much part of  my town, LUCKLY ME!! AND THEY FUCKED THE SHITE OUT OF ME!!! I
> MEAN!!! FUCKED, FUCKED, FUCKED, FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!!
> FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! THE LIVING HOLLY MOTHER OF FUCKING GOD DAMM
> MOTHER FUCKING SHITE, UN BELIEVABLE, CAN'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK,
> PISS ON MY FACE AND SHITE DONW MY NECK, UN BELIEVABLE TYPE SHITE YOU EVER
> FUCKING SEEN, JACK 'D JACK, QUACK D QUACK NUTS JOBS YOUR FUCKING EVER
> FUCKING SEEN IN YOUR FUCKING LIFE!!!!, many of them I can't stand to even
> look at, let alone be the fuck around.(or get jacked!!!!!! FUCKING CLEANED
> THE FUCK OUT!!!!, IF THEY FIND OUT WHER YOU LIVE!!!!, YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD
> DAMM "SECURITY SYSTEM!!" I MEAN "A DAMM FUCKING GOOD ONE", WITH A "BIG ASS
> DOG!!" AND FEW "SHOT GUNS" AND WHAT NOT!! YOU BETTER MOTHER FUCKER!!!!
> So I can understand where law enforcement has no fucking mercy on those
> fucks!!! I mean, I see both sides!! But at the end of the day, like with
> your day trading, I really believe prohibition is the reason for all this
> shite!!!!!! These stupid ass, crazy ass addicts do..... mostly i mean, its
> helping things, I tell you that!!!
>
> Would some people still do it anyway, yea!! they fucking would, but would
> there be less of it, yes, I believe there would!! Try and make alcohol
> illegal and see what happens!! you be seeing the same thing, but with drunks
> stealing for booze!!!!! Its the same model!! When you make something illegal
> its make the "price sore!!!!!" "sky fucking HIGH!!!!", I'M talking at the
> "FEDERAL" LEVEL!!!!! Fuck state law, the state have no real power over the
> drug laws, not really, some, but not enough to stop the FEDS from storming
> in and with guns dawn, and cleaning house!!!! RUING YOUR FUCKING GOD DAMM
> LIFE!!!!
>
> The FEDERAL LAWS HAVE GOT TO CHANGE, THESE STATE LAWS ARE A GOOD START, BUT
> MAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, ITS STILL FUCKING ILLEGAL!!!! ALL OVER THE GOD
> DAMM "FEDERAL LAWS!!!!!!!"
> THAT'S THE GOD DAMM PROBLEM!!!
>
> OUR FOREFATHER WHO SPILLED THI'ER FUCKING GUTS"  intestine and liver,
> and penises', and legs, arms, brain, kidney's, blood!!! DNA!!!! ON THIS SOIL
> AND FOREIGN SOIL, FOUGH FOR A LTTLE SOMETHING CALLED "FREEDOM" SOME PEOPLE
> MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF IT................................ MAYBE, maybe some
> people have heard of that work, hmmm I guess the DEA didn't get that memo, I
> guess not!!!
> MAYBE THE DEA SHOULD LOOK THAT WORD UP!!!!!!
>
> Again, and I forefather who wrote the a little something called the
> "declaration of independence"  and the fucking "constitution" never, EVER
> WANTED THE FEDERAL GOV. TO GET NEAR AS BIG AS IT HAS!!! and control our
> lives the way its has done!!!!!!! NEVER!!!  OUR FOREFATHER WOULD "BE ROLING
> IN THEIR GRAVE AT HOW THE FEDERAL GOV. HAS GOT SOOO BIG!! that is tell
> people what to ingest and what not too!!!" IT WAS NEVER SPOSE TO GET THIS
> WAY!!!
>
> honestly, I don't have a problem with the un natural drugs being illegal,
> but I still think its a mistake to "ban"(meaning not going to solve
> shite!!!) such drugs, but its just my 2 cents.
>
> I just don't not believe for one min!! WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOLE!! NATURAL
> PLANTS THAT COME FROM THE GROUND and from "God him self" or "the planet
> mother ship earth" for non believers(which ever you prefer to
> believe-because i don't judge anybody who doesn't believe in the whole God
> and Jesus thing-I some times myself question my own beliefs) WE SHOULD BE
> ABLE TO GROW FOR ARE own PERSONAL USE!!!! MAYBE NOT TO START UP A OPUIM
> BUSINESS, BUT FOR PERSONAL FUCKING USE!!!(MEANING FOR YOU OWN NEEDS!!!!)
> And they should BE FREE if it comes from nature at low price people
> can afford to pay!!!!!!!!!!(for that person that grow it)
>
> But that's not how it is, and probably not how its ever going to be, but
> that's how I see it..... But not to piss any body off that does what they
> have to live. I mean, in a perfect world, that's what I am talking about....
>
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>
> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>
> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep a
> high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one doing
> it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying for
> free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>
> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
> time we are living in right now!!
>
> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
> about it.
>
> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>
> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just fucked!!!
> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>
> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
> do with chemicals other than THC.
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help with
>> less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down. Then
>> it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>
>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>> arizona daily star
>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or even
>>> grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter approval
>>> gets its way next year.
>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>> "dispensaries."
>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering from
>>> serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long argued
>>> legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug they
>>> see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>> issue.
>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at the
>>> non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they could
>>> grow the drug in their own home.
>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>> it would be legal.
>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship," Myers
>>> said.
>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>> losing their license.
>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>> are prone to abuse.
>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>> than pot.
>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state shouldn't
>>> try to be "medical arbiters."
>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she said.
>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Donzo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/ca3f276d/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 14:38:24 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:38:24 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905031136g18cba5e3s894365bf9631d3c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<2DF79022-61DE-4331-BCFA-D7E5D8CDC197@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031136g18cba5e3s894365bf9631d3c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905031138v5afa3d4fn5a7567dadd4877b2@mail.gmail.com>

I see a B rate movie in the future, it will be a parody of Blood Diamond
called Blood Nugget!  Staring "Some guy to stoned to act" and co staring
some homeless guy that really needs the cash!

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:36 AM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> And sometimes the pay off is high when a few people have the market
> cornered and they can fuck over whoever they'd like! ;)
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:53 AM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> doesn't surprise me at all!!!!
>> yea, I  wonder what they had to pay to get out of it!!! lawyer are not
>> cheap!!! Court cost, ect, ect, ect,ect, ball, you name it!! You see that's
>> the problem, there just too much "risk" involved still!! THAT'S THE FUCKING
>> PROBLEM!! its the risk!!! factor!! That's why they are charging all this
>> money!! IT'S HIGH RISK!! Still not right to do, but its just the way it is.
>>
>> You know better then anything in the stock market, the pay off is high
>> when the risk is high!!! but its the risk you take!!! You not going to get
>> the church lady down the street doing this type of business, you
>> know!! That's the problem! The problem is the DEA!! They make the price go
>> up!! its all about the risk involved, that's why they charging this. They
>> feel, hey, I better make as much money as possible while I can, because
>> chances are, its not going to be life long...... Example the DEA!!!!! coming
>> in with gun to my fucking head!!! Might even end up shot!!("unforeseen"
>> "medical bills!!!!!!") its does, and can VERY WELL HAPPEN!!!
>>
>> Again, I been through a illness, so no, I wouldn't be charge that, I be
>> charging a fare price. But, I would have to make enough to keep fucking
>> "high paid lawyer"  "on the fucking pay roll!!!" I am sorry folks, its the
>> world we live in!!! I do think these dispensaries are dogging people out,
>> yea, but man, "ITS STILL NOT LEGAL!!!!!!!" Even in the state where it
>> legal!! "FEDERAL!!! LAW" "IT'S STILL ILLEGAL", AND THAT MEANS AT "ANY TIME"
>> THEY CAN COME IN "GUNS DRAWN" AND TAKE "EVERYTHING"!!! "YOU FUCKING OWN!!!"
>> "EVERYTHING!!" I MEAN, THEY VERY WELL CAN!!
>>
>> I work very close to police my self, and i have to watch what I say, I
>> want to get on the fire debt. and I am going to try once my EMT class is
>> over. I Passed it before, but I let it go(got to get so many hours every 2
>> years!! or I lose it!!) Its a real bitch going through it again. But I am
>> learning a shit load that I would not have learn other wise. So its good for
>> me. But I don't like paying the money over again.
>>
>> But yea, I talked to ohio township fire debt guy(he believe people should
>> hang for drugs, I am talking death!!!! The real deal!! hang for a tree!! in
>> front of the world on TV!!!!), and his sons a cop(It's the whole us against
>> you type cowboy thing!!), I don't know his son. I bet I met him though.....
>> But he said if you have a pound of pot in the State of IN, they can take
>> your fucking house!!!
>> its that a bitch or what!! That could be a few god damm plants, in their
>> eyes, because here, I bet they would weigh the damm "soil" too!!  and really
>> try to fuck your ass to hell, yea, put you out of business, in jail then out
>> on the fucking street!!!!!!(oh that's helpful.....)
>>
>> I told the ohio township guy in my class, that I don't believe in the drug
>> war, I don't think he likes my views at all.. well people like me are not
>> going away I tell you that, I will tell people my fucking views!!!! people
>> need to start "thinking about this in a "logical" manner!!!. what better way
>> to do that then to debate it, WHAT A BETTER WAY TO HELP GET PEOPLE TO
>> FUCKING SEE!!!! THEY FUCKING STUPID!!!!(yea, i think he hates me, oh well,
>> fuck it, I don't care.....) However, I do know, Meth is a big problem in the
>> State of Indiana. its a major mess!! I don't do meth, and really can't stand
>> the shit myself really, I think its the most toxic shit on the fucking damm
>> planet!!!! It because of all the crap they make it with!! they makes so of
>> the foulest house hold chemical I ever seen!! All probably soooo high in
>> lead, and other heavy metals!! I mean, do you really think drain cleaner was
>> meant for consumption by humans, FUCK NO!!!
>> (I told the whole class straight faced I thought it should be legalized,
>> all of it, they all about went nuts on me, yea, I thought your the fucking
>> dumb asses!!!)
>>
>> Plus the acid, with the plastic crap the cooked it in and all the other
>> shit(the plastic too gets in the final product), I mean, its just soo unsafe
>> it not even funny!!
>>
>> But anyways, just in the last week we had, "2-3 toxic spills"(had to be
>> cleaned out of their homes and what not!! its a mess!!! We, are talking
>> whole city blocks had to move out of there homes and stay else where,
>> because these fucker's are looking up farmer's and stealing the shit to make
>> the stuff!! namely anhydrous ammonia(which is very toxic if not properly
>> used, which we all know, these people are not using the shit properly.
>>
>> I don't even understand how they make it. I heard its not that hard, but
>> still, I don't have a clue how to make meth!!! Would not know the first
>> thing of how to make it..... And then to not have all the right chemicals
>> and stuff to make it safely, man, I wouldn't have a clue....
>>
>> In Evansville, its gotten so bad, these police even know where meth labs
>> are, and they don't even care anymore, I guess because they just all know,
>> they can't really stop it..........  and i kind "think"(which I could be
>> very wrong) they feel sorry for these poor people, and dont' want to lock
>> them up.. But if they see it in plain site, they're a goner for sure!!! They
>> will be going to jail, and do not pass go, do not collect a 100$, straight
>> to jail....
>>
>> But, i think most of these cops know, they can't stop it.. I think they
>> all know its a impossible job to try and stop it all. They simply just
>> can't!! its too wide spread, there no way, they stopping it.
>> and every time the try restrict cold meds more, or other chemical used to
>> make meth, they just use other shit, more toxic shit!! and thus damaging
>> their health even more!!! or they resort to stealing chem. from farmers,
>> thus making it un safe for people when the bust open the anhydrous tanks,
>> leaving "a wake of destruction" every where!!!!
>>
>> You see, this is the fucking problem with making the shit illegal and
>> banning it, even as much I wound not care too see the shit sold out right
>> out in plan view at the conner store buying high grade meth, but this is
>> the alternative, toxic chemical spill"'s" pleura  ON A "DAYLY!!!!!!"(not,
>> tri,or bi monthly, not monthly, not weekly, but FUCKING "DAYLY!!!!!!!!")
>> Where people have to leave there homes, and poor farmers have to pay for
>> more fertilizer and clean up the spill, and it destruction on the soil where
>> they spilled the shite!!!!!!! PROHIBITION JUST MAKES IT MORE UNSAFE FOR
>> "EVERYBODY", "MAINLY THE POOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!" IT JUST DOES!!
>> AND THIS IS THE TYPE OF SHITE WHY!!!
>>
>> To be honest, and real, and straight the fuck up, I was a pain patient
>> that lost his freaken mind!!(THAT, AND I REALY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE
>> ADDCIT WOUDL DO TO ME IF I GOT FUCKED UP AND AROUND THEM!!!.. I REALLY
>> DIDN'T, TALKING ABOUT  3 YEAR AFTER I FUCKNG CRACKED IN FRONT OF THE
>> "POLICE"  WITH 357 MAG TO MY HEAD)from the god damm sick ass treatment no
>> pain med, we know your fucked, but we don't want you on pain meds, hope you
>> don't blow your fucking brain out, stupid ass urologist, fucking worthless
>> piece of shite!! fucking dumb ass jack in box mother fucking box full of
>> rocks!!! idiots mother fucking stupid ass, less the worthless ass crazy
>> idiot, nut jobs of stupid piece of shite, dumb ass, tell me you just picked
>> this disease just to get fucking pain meds type shite, while my bitch goes
>> and sucks some other guys dick in fucking front of my ass, while my fucking
>> dick it feeling like it going to spontaneously combust, blow up into a
>> million piece, while ending up in A fucking mental ward from putting a 375
>> mag to my head after having "a stand off" "with the EPD Evansville POLICE
>> debt.!!!" because I was in sooo much stupid ass fucking pain, while my
>> fucking bitch went to go fuck another dude and while my Dad told me to go
>> fuck my self in ass sorry about collage you done!!!("pretty bad son!!!!" his
>> words!!! quote from my ass hole father "if make you feel any better then
>> thing breaks up 20 year marriages!!" and I not helping you, Sorry I told the
>> family you did'nt have a disease(to make my father look good) that I was
>> just make the shit up, you dropped the fuck out, your fucked(while i live in
>> a 700k house in the fucking hill with my baby sitter gold digger of a bitch
>> ass step mother!!!!, type shit!!! and then the stupid ass uro puts fucking
>> BLEACH AND ALL TYPE OF OTHER CRAZY SHITE MY BLADDER AND FUCKNG WONDERS WHY I
>> got FUCKED OUT OF MY MIND ON CRAZY DOSES OF PAIN MEDS!! TYPES SHIT!! I
>> FUCKING CRACKED!!!!! I JUST FUCKING DID!!!!!!  FUCKING CRACKED!!! HOW THE
>> FUCK WOULDN'T ANYBODY!!!! ALL AT
>> 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> If I ever had kids, I wouldn't want them to use hardcore drugs, or any
>> drugs for matter(not that i even see kids in my future, I thinks if over for
>> me, Im too mentally fuck up at this point to even want kids), and it would
>> kill me to see a kid that i wouldn't ever have, choose a fucked up path, It
>> would kill me!!! BUT!!! I just still believe prohibition does not make it
>> any safer for our kids to live in this horrible ass world we live in, if
>> anything is makes it "more unsafe!!!!"
>> And I just don't have the money for that type of shite!!! Nor do I have a
>> house, but if I had a house and I was anywhere near involved with that
>> shite, you bet!! mother fucker!! you bet!! all that and more!!! Maybe a
>> damm mini gun at the door way, out front and if the try to even look like
>> they are breaking my a computer would sound the mini gun, and blast them to
>> tiny, little fucking pieces!!!! I hate to be that way, but, man, I been
>> jacked one to many fucking times!!! and I fucking can't stand addicts that
>> steal from their god damm, spose to be good fucking friends!! and that one
>> of the mainly reason I quit fucking with it!! IT was that!!
>>
>> And as much I
>> "reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> don't like drugs addict" in "my stupid ass river idiot, stupid fucking piece
>> of worthless shit town"(I got lucky, and met "the worsed!!" bunch of fucked
>> up people in my city!! Ryan aka "pill way!!" and Huckleberry!!! aka Huckle
>> and oh yea Robey the 1st vampire-that sadly OD'd"LESS THEN A MONTH" BEFORE
>> "I PREDICTED IT with a friend that grew up with him!!!!!!"can't say I miss
>> the fuck much, hate to say it, sorry to talk bad about the dead, but the
>> fuck had it coming and was a real scum bag!! beat this girl friend, GOT OFF
>> ON FUCKING PEOPLE UP!! LIVED FOR IT!!!!, ANYTHING TO FUCK ANOTHER PERSON UP,
>> HE LOVE, BE IT JACK, BREAK IN TAKE EVERYTHING FOR FUN, BEAT HIS GIRL TO
>> DEALTH for the pain fuck of it, PISS ON THE WORLD, GET PEOPLE THAT NEVER
>> TRIED SHOOTING UP TO DO IT!! OH HE LIVE FOR THAT!! LIVE FOR IT!!, OR JUST
>> OVER ALL JUST BEING A JACK ASS!! AND HAVE FUN FUCKING UP PEOPLE MENTALLY!!!,
>> No I don't miss that fuck!!! , ,
>>
>>  I think I met the worse people in "all"(pop. of around 400,000-500,000,
>> maybe less then a million all around my city and small towns that pretty
>> much part of  my town, LUCKLY ME!! AND THEY FUCKED THE SHITE OUT OF ME!!! I
>> MEAN!!! FUCKED, FUCKED, FUCKED, FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!!
>> FUCKED!! FUCKED!! FUCKED!! THE LIVING HOLLY MOTHER OF FUCKING GOD DAMM
>> MOTHER FUCKING SHITE, UN BELIEVABLE, CAN'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK,
>> PISS ON MY FACE AND SHITE DONW MY NECK, UN BELIEVABLE TYPE SHITE YOU EVER
>> FUCKING SEEN, JACK 'D JACK, QUACK D QUACK NUTS JOBS YOUR FUCKING EVER
>> FUCKING SEEN IN YOUR FUCKING LIFE!!!!, many of them I can't stand to even
>> look at, let alone be the fuck around.(or get jacked!!!!!! FUCKING CLEANED
>> THE FUCK OUT!!!!, IF THEY FIND OUT WHER YOU LIVE!!!!, YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD
>> DAMM "SECURITY SYSTEM!!" I MEAN "A DAMM FUCKING GOOD ONE", WITH A "BIG ASS
>> DOG!!" AND FEW "SHOT GUNS" AND WHAT NOT!! YOU BETTER MOTHER FUCKER!!!!
>> So I can understand where law enforcement has no fucking mercy on those
>> fucks!!! I mean, I see both sides!! But at the end of the day, like with
>> your day trading, I really believe prohibition is the reason for all this
>> shite!!!!!! These stupid ass, crazy ass addicts do..... mostly i mean, its
>> helping things, I tell you that!!!
>>
>> Would some people still do it anyway, yea!! they fucking would, but would
>> there be less of it, yes, I believe there would!! Try and make alcohol
>> illegal and see what happens!! you be seeing the same thing, but with drunks
>> stealing for booze!!!!! Its the same model!! When you make something illegal
>> its make the "price sore!!!!!" "sky fucking HIGH!!!!", I'M talking at the
>> "FEDERAL" LEVEL!!!!! Fuck state law, the state have no real power over the
>> drug laws, not really, some, but not enough to stop the FEDS from storming
>> in and with guns dawn, and cleaning house!!!! RUING YOUR FUCKING GOD DAMM
>> LIFE!!!!
>>
>> The FEDERAL LAWS HAVE GOT TO CHANGE, THESE STATE LAWS ARE A GOOD START,
>> BUT MAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, ITS STILL FUCKING ILLEGAL!!!! ALL OVER THE
>> GOD DAMM "FEDERAL LAWS!!!!!!!"
>> THAT'S THE GOD DAMM PROBLEM!!!
>>
>> OUR FOREFATHER WHO SPILLED THI'ER FUCKING GUTS"  intestine and liver,
>> and penises', and legs, arms, brain, kidney's, blood!!! DNA!!!! ON THIS SOIL
>> AND FOREIGN SOIL, FOUGH FOR A LTTLE SOMETHING CALLED "FREEDOM" SOME PEOPLE
>> MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF IT................................ MAYBE, maybe some
>> people have heard of that work, hmmm I guess the DEA didn't get that memo, I
>> guess not!!!
>> MAYBE THE DEA SHOULD LOOK THAT WORD UP!!!!!!
>>
>> Again, and I forefather who wrote the a little something called the
>> "declaration of independence"  and the fucking "constitution" never, EVER
>> WANTED THE FEDERAL GOV. TO GET NEAR AS BIG AS IT HAS!!! and control our
>> lives the way its has done!!!!!!! NEVER!!!  OUR FOREFATHER WOULD "BE ROLING
>> IN THEIR GRAVE AT HOW THE FEDERAL GOV. HAS GOT SOOO BIG!! that is tell
>> people what to ingest and what not too!!!" IT WAS NEVER SPOSE TO GET THIS
>> WAY!!!
>>
>> honestly, I don't have a problem with the un natural drugs being illegal,
>> but I still think its a mistake to "ban"(meaning not going to solve
>> shite!!!) such drugs, but its just my 2 cents.
>>
>> I just don't not believe for one min!! WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOLE!!
>> NATURAL PLANTS THAT COME FROM THE GROUND and from "God him self" or "the
>> planet mother ship earth" for non believers(which ever you prefer to
>> believe-because i don't judge anybody who doesn't believe in the whole God
>> and Jesus thing-I some times myself question my own beliefs) WE SHOULD BE
>> ABLE TO GROW FOR ARE own PERSONAL USE!!!! MAYBE NOT TO START UP A OPUIM
>> BUSINESS, BUT FOR PERSONAL FUCKING USE!!!(MEANING FOR YOU OWN NEEDS!!!!)
>> And they should BE FREE if it comes from nature at low price people
>> can afford to pay!!!!!!!!!!(for that person that grow it)
>>
>> But that's not how it is, and probably not how its ever going to be, but
>> that's how I see it..... But not to piss any body off that does what they
>> have to live. I mean, in a perfect world, that's what I am talking about....
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 3, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>
>> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
>> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>>
>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep a
>> high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
>> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one
>> doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying
>> for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
>> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
>> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
>> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
>> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
>> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>>
>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
>> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
>> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
>> time we are living in right now!!
>>
>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
>> about it.
>>
>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
>> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
>> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
>> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>
>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just fucked!!!
>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>
>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>
>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>> arizona daily star
>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>> issue.
>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>>> it would be legal.
>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>> Myers said.
>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>> losing their license.
>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>> than pot.
>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>> said.
>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/66e126fd/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 14:57:29 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:57:29 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Finest green
In-Reply-To: <461F1545-C694-4637-9E00-A89A1BBF4638@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
	<5A672EC6-CA66-4012-9203-A40327631D8F@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905022220u1322c8b2nc03e3f2c55f867db@mail.gmail.com>
	<461F1545-C694-4637-9E00-A89A1BBF4638@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905031157v391c764bj19606bc72b1672b6@mail.gmail.com>

I think the Europeans have it right, you really have to mix cannabis
(especially these days) with another herb, like Damiana or Tobacco, cause
people tend to smoke more than they need.. stopping when they feel high
enough, but then having another 2 or 3 hits still building in their system
that they just smoked.  This creates a massive tolerance in a short amount
of time.  You can really manage you cannabis use if you use a vaporizer,
self regulate with a zeplin or mix you cannabis.  Eating it, with
well proportioned amounts of hemp butter etc is another way to get great
effect medicinally.
Problem tends to be that proper amounts of THC take a while to take effect
when you eat it.. so the person will totally over do it and end up only able
to pay attention to the humming of the water pipes and other
background noises in their house for the next 6 hours.  Being that stoned
for no good reason is.. well expensive!



On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> To List,Gotta admit though when I did smoke I wanted the finest green they
> had and I got it too. Only thing I would change. I would use a vaporizer to
> eliminate toxins from smoke. After 5 months use I was gettin smokers morning
> cough. Gone now  with pot eliminationjfrom lifestyle.
> On May 2, 2009, at 10:20 PM, James Forristal wrote:
>
> I just used bubble bags for the trim and made honey oil and hash butter out
> of the not so pretty mini flowers here and there.
> For me cannabis is a psychedelic, if I eat it I've gone as far as having
> past life and en utero memories, very intense, highly vulnerable and can go
> on as long as 10 hours.   Being I'm so sensitive to it, I use it about 2
> times a month, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.  My
> personal reasoning behind this, is that my ethical stance on the reality we
> have created is so against my own truth that anything that makes me that
> vulnerable will tend to aid in my hiding in my room all the damned time.. I
> sorta need my structured ego to function in this mess.. though I'd gladly
> give up this little game :)  I really really really just wanna trust people,
> . . .  OH and be trusted, but that seems to be tricky business on this
> planet.
>
> Anyway, If these folks are selling out of warehouse grows, they should be
> making really good money.  Even after they pay off their legal staff (blood
> sucking leaches also ;) .  If they really have to pay all this money for
> lawyers, can't they find a few that will challenge these laws on the simple
> basis of them being TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL?!!!!?
>
>
> As far as the Dr.'s and cannabis thing, I have a friend in Seattle that
> uses a pain Dr and they have the most extensive drug test I've ever heard
> of, even LSD is on that list, it breaks things down so they know just what
> opiates you are taking and just about how much you have in you're
> system.. insane.. plus it cost my friend 300 dollars whenever they pop a
> test on him.  That is kinda crappy.  Seems in Washington they don't seem to
> mind if you have Cannabis in your system, but I'm sure that isn't so true in
> places where you can't get a medical card.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Look up hemp oil. its spose to very good for the health and its got strong
>> dose of THC in it, but most people with health problems use the very least
>> to not look like a quote unquote "addict" even if its not legal where they
>> do it.
>> Which is a good Idea if anybody want to grow there own and not be looked
>> like as a "addict" not to say the law wouldn't fuck you anyway.. In my state
>> they would probably cut off my dick and mail it to the DA for the fuck the
>> it!! no matter what I used it for....
>>
>> My doctor would most likely, TELL ME "YOUR FIRED" If I had THC in my
>> system, even it was helping me. But not the doc, as much as it the fear,
>> that the DEA could come i n and say, you were helping a fucking addict,
>> knowingly!!!!
>>
>> Which would be Totally bull shit! because I got paper and everything
>> saying the nothing more the stupid ass urologist(COMPLETELY IDIOTS!! WHEN IT
>> COMES TO IC(A RARE BLADDER DISEASE, THAT MEN TEND TO GET WORSE!!!)
>> But, then again, my black doc, was addicted to smack, dilaudid, coke,
>> speed, everything possible, and I believe a person in the waiting room told
>> me he got busted 3 different time for dilaudid, and coke, and then again, 3
>> different DWI's!!!!! one in the past few years. The mans, been through
>> HELL!!!
>>
>> So, I would kind of understand a guy who been through that much shit+black
>> at that!! not wanting even take one min worth of a chance on "ME" "for his"
>> fucking MD!!!! That he worked LIKE A DOG!! AND IN THE TIME RACAL CRAZY
>> SHITE, YOU WOULD EVEN WANT TO THINK ABOUT!!  How my man got his MD, I WILL
>> NEVER KNOW....... EVER!!!!
>>
>> Its crazy he even write anything at all really, I don't know if I would
>> have the ball to write shit after going through all that!! He must really
>> believe in what is doing, I can't see how couldn't!! I mean, no body in my
>> town does what that man dose, NOBODY!!!!
>>
>> give me Testosterone shots, which no damm doctor around here will fucking
>> do, even for god damm low fucking lest!!! So man, the guys a good guy, he
>> doesn't let me control the shots, he to fearful. Which is mostly BULL SHIT!!
>> THAT THEY BEEN PROGRAMED TO BELIEVE!!!! But to be fare, shit does happen, in
>> the wrong person, wrong mind set, wrong body chem, and you never know, you
>> just might have made a monster you can't control(which is largely BS, but
>> you just never know how people are going to do on that shit, it can change
>> you mood, and it could possible lead to health problems in not respected.
>>
>> Plus the whole needle(me use it my self, kind of freaks him out, possible
>> not clean off right, get a infection, and mean all these things have to
>> looked at. Because even if legal act was not taken, he still could be sued,
>> anybody can sue anybody, OVER ANYTHING!!!
>>
>> Plus I am on amphetamine(adderall) and that constricts the blood vessels,
>> and steroids(steroid not made by the body) tend to rise the blood pressure,
>> so you got the combo to think about, which could lead to stroke. so I got
>> quite a cocktail that could harm if not really watched closely, so I see him
>> point, even though i thinks its mostly BS.
>>
>> But, I am older and less of a stupid ass, and don't just throw what ever
>> in my body and just "SEE WHAT HAPPENS", type of guy anymore at 32, I just
>> don't think stupid anymore, I tend to plan my meds out, and really wait it
>> out before going in there and "requesting" "all this shite" !(Which
>> completely different to "ordering" MD to give you what ever you "think" you
>> might need............ Example ordering a MD to give dilaudid, or straight
>> fentanyl, which they might as well just say here is you heroin you just
>> asked for, have FUN!! :O) Yea, I doctor saying that, yea right...
>>
>> Well, to be fare dilaudid a good pain killer, and you use way less, but
>> man its so addictive!!! So is fentanyl, I swear, fentanyl is dead up like
>> heroin, I mean dead up like it. I mean I kind of feel don't even have to try
>> heroin, man, I done 4 100mcg(which mean its give out 100 "micro" grams per
>> hour) 1 100mcg spose last 72, but doesn't, should last at least 48hr though,
>> patch is 10mg, so I did 40mg at one time!!! and 100 micro grams can and will
>> kill!!! I my self have never known anybody to ever live after shooting one
>> whole patch 10mg, never!!
>>
>> When my mother told my pain doctor I shoot up 4 pain patches at one time,
>> the first thing out of his mouth is, "HOW IS HE NOT DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!" I
>> think believe I done even more then that, I think up to 5, that's 50mg of
>> fentanyl, if they would have tested my blood at the morgue, they would have
>> said, MY GOD, HOW THE FUCK!!! MAN, THIS GUY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE, DID
>> HE!!!
>>
>> NOPE!! not in the pain I was in, SURE FUCKING DIDN'T!!!!!
>>
>> Oh, well I lived, nobody I even known as done near and much as I done and
>> lived, nobody!!!! 50mg of fentanyl, and enough to kill a city block!!! or a
>> family of elephants!!! That's as real as it gets, it doesn't get any realer
>> that, my friends......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> O
>> n May 2, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>
>> Sitka,your answers
>> I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marijuana (finest green)
>> when I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I did not use the
>> pot that I would probably go to 600 mg or more. After the surgery my surgeon
>> came to my bed. He told me That during the procedure my body was using the
>> anastisha  Like water. The Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically
>> good hash enhanced the opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns
>> to a white ash in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil so
>> they can sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes it giving
>> them more product.
>>
>> On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>
>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>
>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>> arizona daily star
>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>> issue.
>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>>> it would be legal.
>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>> Myers said.
>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>> losing their license.
>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>> than pot.
>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>> said.
>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/dfc456ee/attachment.htm>

From digitalcomponents at gmail.com  Sun May  3 16:12:15 2009
From: digitalcomponents at gmail.com (Nyc Labrets)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 22:12:15 +0200
Subject: [Ibogaine] Finest green
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905031157v391c764bj19606bc72b1672b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
	<5A672EC6-CA66-4012-9203-A40327631D8F@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905022220u1322c8b2nc03e3f2c55f867db@mail.gmail.com>
	<461F1545-C694-4637-9E00-A89A1BBF4638@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031157v391c764bj19606bc72b1672b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7237bf9f0905031312r4a80300fh575476e41c1367dd@mail.gmail.com>

I've been mixing my weed with tobacco, with a rolled up bit of cardboard in
the end of it since I was 17 years old.

Every single one of my American friends has protested this, including heavy
cig smokers, because they're freaking morans.

Then they turn around, do a crappy job of rolling their joints which burn
hot and fast, and/or use a pipe/bong which delivers such dense smoke that
they end up losing the hit of their $20 buck a gram weed. Making it the most
expensive incense money can buy.

All because they subscribe to some bullshit idea that weed should be 'pure'.

Total proof that Jedi Mind Tricks do work on weak minds.

It's the cardboard tube rolled into the end that makes a big difference.
Because of it I can totally regulate the density of the hit and am able to
hold it for as long as possible without coughing it all out and wasting it.

It takes a bit of practice to get the roll down right, I liken it to the
elegance of a Japanese Tea Ceremony. You really have to pay attention to
what you're doing, or you'll just fuck it up.

All that became moot about a year ago when I started just using this
http://careysmokeshop.stores.yahoo.net/supermatic.html machine to make all
my regular tobacco cigarettes as well as my 'Special Blends'

Takes seconds to do what used to take minutes by hand and they turn out
PERFECT every time.

No more worrying about getting the glue licking right.

In fact, no more saliva between my smoking friends and me.

Ever.

I can't express how awesome this is, though the very first time I made one
with a tobacco injector machine I just stared at the thing for about 10
minutes because I was so pissed about all the hours of my life I had wasted
on rolling so so joints when I could have been doing this all the while.

Other added bonuses is that I can walk down a NYC street casually puffing
away on one of those bad boys and if I'm dressed right the people around me
sure can smell it, but they sure as fuck can't locate it.

Only one complication exists with this method, you want to knock the cotton
filter out before you crank the tobacco injector lever, but fortunately a
Bic pen is a perfect fit for the cotton tubes.

I demonstrates how to use a smaller hand held one of these machines here:

http://nnym.blogspot.com/2009/04/cheap-cigarettes-for-buck-pack.html

Using this method to make my cigarettes I saved over $6,000 in cigarettes in
one year when I lived in New York City.

Tres fun.

If you're a tobacco smoker, ask yourself if you could use that kind of
money.

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:57 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I think the Europeans have it right, you really have to mix cannabis
> (especially these days) with another herb, like Damiana or Tobacco, cause
> people tend to smoke more than they need.. stopping when they feel high
> enough, but then having another 2 or 3 hits still building in their system
> that they just smoked.  This creates a massive tolerance in a short amount
> of time.  You can really manage you cannabis use if you use a vaporizer,
> self regulate with a zeplin or mix you cannabis.  Eating it, with
> well proportioned amounts of hemp butter etc is another way to get great
> effect medicinally.
> Problem tends to be that proper amounts of THC take a while to take effect
> when you eat it.. so the person will totally over do it and end up only able
> to pay attention to the humming of the water pipes and other
> background noises in their house for the next 6 hours.  Being that stoned
> for no good reason is.. well expensive!
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> To List,Gotta admit though when I did smoke I wanted the finest green
>> they had and I got it too. Only thing I would change. I would use a
>> vaporizer to eliminate toxins from smoke. After 5 months use I was gettin
>> smokers morning cough. Gone now  with pot eliminationjfrom lifestyle.
>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:20 PM, James Forristal wrote:
>>
>> I just used bubble bags for the trim and made honey oil and hash butter
>> out of the not so pretty mini flowers here and there.
>> For me cannabis is a psychedelic, if I eat it I've gone as far as having
>> past life and en utero memories, very intense, highly vulnerable and can go
>> on as long as 10 hours.   Being I'm so sensitive to it, I use it about 2
>> times a month, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.  My
>> personal reasoning behind this, is that my ethical stance on the reality we
>> have created is so against my own truth that anything that makes me that
>> vulnerable will tend to aid in my hiding in my room all the damned time.. I
>> sorta need my structured ego to function in this mess.. though I'd gladly
>> give up this little game :)  I really really really just wanna trust people,
>> . . .  OH and be trusted, but that seems to be tricky business on this
>> planet.
>>
>> Anyway, If these folks are selling out of warehouse grows, they should be
>> making really good money.  Even after they pay off their legal staff (blood
>> sucking leaches also ;) .  If they really have to pay all this money for
>> lawyers, can't they find a few that will challenge these laws on the simple
>> basis of them being TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL?!!!!?
>>
>>
>> As far as the Dr.'s and cannabis thing, I have a friend in Seattle that
>> uses a pain Dr and they have the most extensive drug test I've ever heard
>> of, even LSD is on that list, it breaks things down so they know just what
>> opiates you are taking and just about how much you have in you're
>> system.. insane.. plus it cost my friend 300 dollars whenever they pop a
>> test on him.  That is kinda crappy.  Seems in Washington they don't seem to
>> mind if you have Cannabis in your system, but I'm sure that isn't so true in
>> places where you can't get a medical card.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Look up hemp oil. its spose to very good for the health and its got
>>> strong dose of THC in it, but most people with health problems use the very
>>> least to not look like a quote unquote "addict" even if its not legal where
>>> they do it.
>>> Which is a good Idea if anybody want to grow there own and not be looked
>>> like as a "addict" not to say the law wouldn't fuck you anyway.. In my state
>>> they would probably cut off my dick and mail it to the DA for the fuck the
>>> it!! no matter what I used it for....
>>>
>>> My doctor would most likely, TELL ME "YOUR FIRED" If I had THC in my
>>> system, even it was helping me. But not the doc, as much as it the fear,
>>> that the DEA could come i n and say, you were helping a fucking addict,
>>> knowingly!!!!
>>>
>>> Which would be Totally bull shit! because I got paper and everything
>>> saying the nothing more the stupid ass urologist(COMPLETELY IDIOTS!! WHEN IT
>>> COMES TO IC(A RARE BLADDER DISEASE, THAT MEN TEND TO GET WORSE!!!)
>>> But, then again, my black doc, was addicted to smack, dilaudid, coke,
>>> speed, everything possible, and I believe a person in the waiting room told
>>> me he got busted 3 different time for dilaudid, and coke, and then again, 3
>>> different DWI's!!!!! one in the past few years. The mans, been through
>>> HELL!!!
>>>
>>> So, I would kind of understand a guy who been through that much
>>> shit+black at that!! not wanting even take one min worth of a chance on "ME"
>>> "for his" fucking MD!!!! That he worked LIKE A DOG!! AND IN THE TIME RACAL
>>> CRAZY SHITE, YOU WOULD EVEN WANT TO THINK ABOUT!!  How my man got his MD, I
>>> WILL NEVER KNOW....... EVER!!!!
>>>
>>> Its crazy he even write anything at all really, I don't know if I would
>>> have the ball to write shit after going through all that!! He must really
>>> believe in what is doing, I can't see how couldn't!! I mean, no body in my
>>> town does what that man dose, NOBODY!!!!
>>>
>>> give me Testosterone shots, which no damm doctor around here will fucking
>>> do, even for god damm low fucking lest!!! So man, the guys a good guy, he
>>> doesn't let me control the shots, he to fearful. Which is mostly BULL SHIT!!
>>> THAT THEY BEEN PROGRAMED TO BELIEVE!!!! But to be fare, shit does happen, in
>>> the wrong person, wrong mind set, wrong body chem, and you never know, you
>>> just might have made a monster you can't control(which is largely BS, but
>>> you just never know how people are going to do on that shit, it can change
>>> you mood, and it could possible lead to health problems in not respected.
>>>
>>> Plus the whole needle(me use it my self, kind of freaks him out, possible
>>> not clean off right, get a infection, and mean all these things have to
>>> looked at. Because even if legal act was not taken, he still could be sued,
>>> anybody can sue anybody, OVER ANYTHING!!!
>>>
>>> Plus I am on amphetamine(adderall) and that constricts the blood vessels,
>>> and steroids(steroid not made by the body) tend to rise the blood pressure,
>>> so you got the combo to think about, which could lead to stroke. so I got
>>> quite a cocktail that could harm if not really watched closely, so I see him
>>> point, even though i thinks its mostly BS.
>>>
>>> But, I am older and less of a stupid ass, and don't just throw what ever
>>> in my body and just "SEE WHAT HAPPENS", type of guy anymore at 32, I just
>>> don't think stupid anymore, I tend to plan my meds out, and really wait it
>>> out before going in there and "requesting" "all this shite" !(Which
>>> completely different to "ordering" MD to give you what ever you "think" you
>>> might need............ Example ordering a MD to give dilaudid, or straight
>>> fentanyl, which they might as well just say here is you heroin you just
>>> asked for, have FUN!! :O) Yea, I doctor saying that, yea right...
>>>
>>> Well, to be fare dilaudid a good pain killer, and you use way less, but
>>> man its so addictive!!! So is fentanyl, I swear, fentanyl is dead up like
>>> heroin, I mean dead up like it. I mean I kind of feel don't even have to try
>>> heroin, man, I done 4 100mcg(which mean its give out 100 "micro" grams per
>>> hour) 1 100mcg spose last 72, but doesn't, should last at least 48hr though,
>>> patch is 10mg, so I did 40mg at one time!!! and 100 micro grams can and will
>>> kill!!! I my self have never known anybody to ever live after shooting one
>>> whole patch 10mg, never!!
>>>
>>> When my mother told my pain doctor I shoot up 4 pain patches at one time,
>>> the first thing out of his mouth is, "HOW IS HE NOT DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!" I
>>> think believe I done even more then that, I think up to 5, that's 50mg of
>>> fentanyl, if they would have tested my blood at the morgue, they would have
>>> said, MY GOD, HOW THE FUCK!!! MAN, THIS GUY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE, DID
>>> HE!!!
>>>
>>> NOPE!! not in the pain I was in, SURE FUCKING DIDN'T!!!!!
>>>
>>> Oh, well I lived, nobody I even known as done near and much as I done and
>>> lived, nobody!!!! 50mg of fentanyl, and enough to kill a city block!!! or a
>>> family of elephants!!! That's as real as it gets, it doesn't get any realer
>>> that, my friends......
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> O
>>> n May 2, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>>
>>> Sitka,your answers
>>> I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marijuana (finest green)
>>> when I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I did not use the
>>> pot that I would probably go to 600 mg or more. After the surgery my surgeon
>>> came to my bed. He told me That during the procedure my body was using the
>>> anastisha  Like water. The Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically
>>> good hash enhanced the opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns
>>> to a white ash in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil so
>>> they can sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes it giving
>>> them more product.
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>
>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot
>>>>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark
>>>>> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of
>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to
>>>>> get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be
>>>>> prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is
>>>>> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state
>>>>> level, it would be legal.
>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>>> Myers said.
>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for
>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only
>>>>> to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>>> losing their license.
>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by
>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the
>>>>> measure to win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120
>>>>> dispensaries, none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem
>>>>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>>> than pot.
>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>>> said.
>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>


-- 
"We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."

PirateBay

FTW
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/db50d3ee/attachment-0001.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 16:35:36 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:35:36 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Finest green
In-Reply-To: <7237bf9f0905031312r4a80300fh575476e41c1367dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CDDB994-1EB1-4CFD-B47A-C23E14988F39@gmail.com>
	<5A672EC6-CA66-4012-9203-A40327631D8F@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905022220u1322c8b2nc03e3f2c55f867db@mail.gmail.com>
	<461F1545-C694-4637-9E00-A89A1BBF4638@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031157v391c764bj19606bc72b1672b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031312r4a80300fh575476e41c1367dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905031335s4f29b20cqed39da3a0c974e89@mail.gmail.com>

There is an herb called Damiana, check it out, you can normally get it in
tea bags if you can't find it in bulk form.. it tastes very much like
cannabis and mixes very well with it, better than tobacco IMO.  It's totally
worth checking out, I promise!!!  Cheaper too, and nice for those that don't
wish to mess about with tobacco.

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Nyc Labrets <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>wrote:

> I've been mixing my weed with tobacco, with a rolled up bit of cardboard in
> the end of it since I was 17 years old.
>
> Every single one of my American friends has protested this, including heavy
> cig smokers, because they're freaking morans.
>
> Then they turn around, do a crappy job of rolling their joints which burn
> hot and fast, and/or use a pipe/bong which delivers such dense smoke that
> they end up losing the hit of their $20 buck a gram weed. Making it the most
> expensive incense money can buy.
>
> All because they subscribe to some bullshit idea that weed should be
> 'pure'.
>
> Total proof that Jedi Mind Tricks do work on weak minds.
>
> It's the cardboard tube rolled into the end that makes a big difference.
> Because of it I can totally regulate the density of the hit and am able to
> hold it for as long as possible without coughing it all out and wasting it.
>
> It takes a bit of practice to get the roll down right, I liken it to the
> elegance of a Japanese Tea Ceremony. You really have to pay attention to
> what you're doing, or you'll just fuck it up.
>
> All that became moot about a year ago when I started just using this
> http://careysmokeshop.stores.yahoo.net/supermatic.html machine to make all
> my regular tobacco cigarettes as well as my 'Special Blends'
>
> Takes seconds to do what used to take minutes by hand and they turn out
> PERFECT every time.
>
> No more worrying about getting the glue licking right.
>
> In fact, no more saliva between my smoking friends and me.
>
> Ever.
>
> I can't express how awesome this is, though the very first time I made one
> with a tobacco injector machine I just stared at the thing for about 10
> minutes because I was so pissed about all the hours of my life I had wasted
> on rolling so so joints when I could have been doing this all the while.
>
> Other added bonuses is that I can walk down a NYC street casually puffing
> away on one of those bad boys and if I'm dressed right the people around me
> sure can smell it, but they sure as fuck can't locate it.
>
> Only one complication exists with this method, you want to knock the cotton
> filter out before you crank the tobacco injector lever, but fortunately a
> Bic pen is a perfect fit for the cotton tubes.
>
> I demonstrates how to use a smaller hand held one of these machines here:
>
> http://nnym.blogspot.com/2009/04/cheap-cigarettes-for-buck-pack.html
>
> Using this method to make my cigarettes I saved over $6,000 in cigarettes
> in one year when I lived in New York City.
>
> Tres fun.
>
> If you're a tobacco smoker, ask yourself if you could use that kind of
> money.
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:57 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I think the Europeans have it right, you really have to mix cannabis
>> (especially these days) with another herb, like Damiana or Tobacco, cause
>> people tend to smoke more than they need.. stopping when they feel high
>> enough, but then having another 2 or 3 hits still building in their system
>> that they just smoked.  This creates a massive tolerance in a short amount
>> of time.  You can really manage you cannabis use if you use a vaporizer,
>> self regulate with a zeplin or mix you cannabis.  Eating it, with
>> well proportioned amounts of hemp butter etc is another way to get great
>> effect medicinally.
>> Problem tends to be that proper amounts of THC take a while to take effect
>> when you eat it.. so the person will totally over do it and end up only able
>> to pay attention to the humming of the water pipes and other
>> background noises in their house for the next 6 hours.  Being that stoned
>> for no good reason is.. well expensive!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> To List,Gotta admit though when I did smoke I wanted the finest green
>>> they had and I got it too. Only thing I would change. I would use a
>>> vaporizer to eliminate toxins from smoke. After 5 months use I was gettin
>>> smokers morning cough. Gone now  with pot eliminationjfrom lifestyle.
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:20 PM, James Forristal wrote:
>>>
>>> I just used bubble bags for the trim and made honey oil and hash butter
>>> out of the not so pretty mini flowers here and there.
>>> For me cannabis is a psychedelic, if I eat it I've gone as far as having
>>> past life and en utero memories, very intense, highly vulnerable and can go
>>> on as long as 10 hours.   Being I'm so sensitive to it, I use it about 2
>>> times a month, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.  My
>>> personal reasoning behind this, is that my ethical stance on the reality we
>>> have created is so against my own truth that anything that makes me that
>>> vulnerable will tend to aid in my hiding in my room all the damned time.. I
>>> sorta need my structured ego to function in this mess.. though I'd gladly
>>> give up this little game :)  I really really really just wanna trust people,
>>> . . .  OH and be trusted, but that seems to be tricky business on this
>>> planet.
>>>
>>> Anyway, If these folks are selling out of warehouse grows, they should be
>>> making really good money.  Even after they pay off their legal staff (blood
>>> sucking leaches also ;) .  If they really have to pay all this money for
>>> lawyers, can't they find a few that will challenge these laws on the simple
>>> basis of them being TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL?!!!!?
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as the Dr.'s and cannabis thing, I have a friend in Seattle that
>>> uses a pain Dr and they have the most extensive drug test I've ever heard
>>> of, even LSD is on that list, it breaks things down so they know just what
>>> opiates you are taking and just about how much you have in you're
>>> system.. insane.. plus it cost my friend 300 dollars whenever they pop a
>>> test on him.  That is kinda crappy.  Seems in Washington they don't seem to
>>> mind if you have Cannabis in your system, but I'm sure that isn't so true in
>>> places where you can't get a medical card.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Look up hemp oil. its spose to very good for the health and its got
>>>> strong dose of THC in it, but most people with health problems use the very
>>>> least to not look like a quote unquote "addict" even if its not legal where
>>>> they do it.
>>>> Which is a good Idea if anybody want to grow there own and not be looked
>>>> like as a "addict" not to say the law wouldn't fuck you anyway.. In my state
>>>> they would probably cut off my dick and mail it to the DA for the fuck the
>>>> it!! no matter what I used it for....
>>>>
>>>> My doctor would most likely, TELL ME "YOUR FIRED" If I had THC in my
>>>> system, even it was helping me. But not the doc, as much as it the fear,
>>>> that the DEA could come i n and say, you were helping a fucking addict,
>>>> knowingly!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Which would be Totally bull shit! because I got paper and everything
>>>> saying the nothing more the stupid ass urologist(COMPLETELY IDIOTS!! WHEN IT
>>>> COMES TO IC(A RARE BLADDER DISEASE, THAT MEN TEND TO GET WORSE!!!)
>>>> But, then again, my black doc, was addicted to smack, dilaudid, coke,
>>>> speed, everything possible, and I believe a person in the waiting room told
>>>> me he got busted 3 different time for dilaudid, and coke, and then again, 3
>>>> different DWI's!!!!! one in the past few years. The mans, been through
>>>> HELL!!!
>>>>
>>>> So, I would kind of understand a guy who been through that much
>>>> shit+black at that!! not wanting even take one min worth of a chance on "ME"
>>>> "for his" fucking MD!!!! That he worked LIKE A DOG!! AND IN THE TIME RACAL
>>>> CRAZY SHITE, YOU WOULD EVEN WANT TO THINK ABOUT!!  How my man got his MD, I
>>>> WILL NEVER KNOW....... EVER!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Its crazy he even write anything at all really, I don't know if I would
>>>> have the ball to write shit after going through all that!! He must really
>>>> believe in what is doing, I can't see how couldn't!! I mean, no body in my
>>>> town does what that man dose, NOBODY!!!!
>>>>
>>>> give me Testosterone shots, which no damm doctor around here will
>>>> fucking do, even for god damm low fucking lest!!! So man, the guys a good
>>>> guy, he doesn't let me control the shots, he to fearful. Which is mostly
>>>> BULL SHIT!! THAT THEY BEEN PROGRAMED TO BELIEVE!!!! But to be fare, shit
>>>> does happen, in the wrong person, wrong mind set, wrong body chem, and you
>>>> never know, you just might have made a monster you can't control(which is
>>>> largely BS, but you just never know how people are going to do on that shit,
>>>> it can change you mood, and it could possible lead to health problems in not
>>>> respected.
>>>>
>>>> Plus the whole needle(me use it my self, kind of freaks him out,
>>>> possible not clean off right, get a infection, and mean all these things
>>>> have to looked at. Because even if legal act was not taken, he still could
>>>> be sued, anybody can sue anybody, OVER ANYTHING!!!
>>>>
>>>> Plus I am on amphetamine(adderall) and that constricts the blood
>>>> vessels, and steroids(steroid not made by the body) tend to rise the blood
>>>> pressure, so you got the combo to think about, which could lead to stroke.
>>>> so I got quite a cocktail that could harm if not really watched closely, so
>>>> I see him point, even though i thinks its mostly BS.
>>>>
>>>> But, I am older and less of a stupid ass, and don't just throw what ever
>>>> in my body and just "SEE WHAT HAPPENS", type of guy anymore at 32, I just
>>>> don't think stupid anymore, I tend to plan my meds out, and really wait it
>>>> out before going in there and "requesting" "all this shite" !(Which
>>>> completely different to "ordering" MD to give you what ever you "think" you
>>>> might need............ Example ordering a MD to give dilaudid, or straight
>>>> fentanyl, which they might as well just say here is you heroin you just
>>>> asked for, have FUN!! :O) Yea, I doctor saying that, yea right...
>>>>
>>>> Well, to be fare dilaudid a good pain killer, and you use way less, but
>>>> man its so addictive!!! So is fentanyl, I swear, fentanyl is dead up like
>>>> heroin, I mean dead up like it. I mean I kind of feel don't even have to try
>>>> heroin, man, I done 4 100mcg(which mean its give out 100 "micro" grams per
>>>> hour) 1 100mcg spose last 72, but doesn't, should last at least 48hr though,
>>>> patch is 10mg, so I did 40mg at one time!!! and 100 micro grams can and will
>>>> kill!!! I my self have never known anybody to ever live after shooting one
>>>> whole patch 10mg, never!!
>>>>
>>>> When my mother told my pain doctor I shoot up 4 pain patches at one
>>>> time, the first thing out of his mouth is, "HOW IS HE NOT DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!"
>>>> I think believe I done even more then that, I think up to 5, that's 50mg of
>>>> fentanyl, if they would have tested my blood at the morgue, they would have
>>>> said, MY GOD, HOW THE FUCK!!! MAN, THIS GUY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE, DID
>>>> HE!!!
>>>>
>>>> NOPE!! not in the pain I was in, SURE FUCKING DIDN'T!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Oh, well I lived, nobody I even known as done near and much as I done
>>>> and lived, nobody!!!! 50mg of fentanyl, and enough to kill a city block!!!
>>>> or a family of elephants!!! That's as real as it gets, it doesn't get any
>>>> realer that, my friends......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> O
>>>> n May 2, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sitka,your answers
>>>> I went into a surgery Opiate tolerant. I used marijuana (finest green)
>>>> when I lived in Arizona. Then stopped for years. I knew if I did not use the
>>>> pot that I would probably go to 600 mg or more. After the surgery my surgeon
>>>> came to my bed. He told me That during the procedure my body was using the
>>>> anastisha  Like water. The Anestesiologist was  amazed. Hash specifically
>>>> good hash enhanced the opiates dramatically for pain relief. Good Hash burns
>>>> to a white ash in the bowl. If it turns liquid it has been cut with oil so
>>>> they can sell more. The oil is I believe sienna oil and dilutes it giving
>>>> them more product.
>>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2009, at 8:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>>>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>>>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>>>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>>>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>>>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>>>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot
>>>>>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark
>>>>>> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of
>>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to
>>>>>> get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be
>>>>>> prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is
>>>>>> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state
>>>>>> level, it would be legal.
>>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>>>> Myers said.
>>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for
>>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only
>>>>>> to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>>>> losing their license.
>>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for
>>>>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by
>>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the
>>>>>> measure to win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120
>>>>>> dispensaries, none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"
>>>>>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana,
>>>>>> none have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem
>>>>>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California
>>>>>> - are prone to abuse.
>>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>>>> than pot.
>>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
> burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."
>
> PirateBay
>
> FTW
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/4081360b/attachment.htm>

From DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com  Sun May  3 18:34:57 2009
From: DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com (Nyc Labrets)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 00:34:57 +0200
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>

The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other illegal
drugs.

The money around it and the violence would not exist without its illegality.

Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?

It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and Al Capone
made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough of the Great
Depression.

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>
> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep a
> high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one doing
> it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying for
> free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>
> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
> time we are living in right now!!
>
> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
> about it.
>
> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>
> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just fucked!!!
> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>
> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
> do with chemicals other than THC.
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help with
>> less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down. Then
>> it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>
>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>> arizona daily star
>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or even
>>> grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter approval
>>> gets its way next year.
>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>> "dispensaries."
>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering from
>>> serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long argued
>>> legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug they
>>> see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>> issue.
>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at the
>>> non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they could
>>> grow the drug in their own home.
>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>> it would be legal.
>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship," Myers
>>> said.
>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>> losing their license.
>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>> are prone to abuse.
>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>> than pot.
>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state shouldn't
>>> try to be "medical arbiters."
>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she said.
>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Donzo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>


-- 
"We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."

PirateBay

FTW
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/d14adac5/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 20:15:01 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:15:01 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>

Greedy people help it along!

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <
DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com> wrote:

> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other illegal
> drugs.
>
> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its
> illegality.
>
> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>
> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and Al
> Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough of the Great
> Depression.
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
>> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>>
>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep a
>> high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
>> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one
>> doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying
>> for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
>> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
>> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
>> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
>> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
>> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>>
>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
>> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
>> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
>> time we are living in right now!!
>>
>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
>> about it.
>>
>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
>> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
>> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
>> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>
>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just fucked!!!
>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>
>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>
>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>> arizona daily star
>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot that
>>>> would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark the
>>>> fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>> issue.
>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of State's
>>>> Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to get a
>>>> "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be prosecuted in
>>>> the state for marijuana possession.
>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is why
>>>> doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state level,
>>>> it would be legal.
>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>> Myers said.
>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for medical
>>>> purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only to see
>>>> the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>> losing their license.
>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by avoiding
>>>> the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the measure to
>>>> win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120 dispensaries,
>>>> none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem with
>>>> people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>> than pot.
>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>> said.
>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
> burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."
>
> PirateBay
>
> FTW
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/55af4cbe/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Sun May  3 20:18:14 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:18:14 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905031718m24c518c0ue66f95a311734b5d@mail.gmail.com>

Us greedy selfish, lonely and gaurded insecure little peoples that want
power to assuage our woes!

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:15 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Greedy people help it along!
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <
> DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other illegal
>> drugs.
>>
>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its
>> illegality.
>>
>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>
>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and Al
>> Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough of the Great
>> Depression.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
>>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
>>> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>
>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep
>>> a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
>>> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one
>>> doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying
>>> for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
>>> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
>>> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
>>> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
>>> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
>>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
>>> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>>>
>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
>>> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
>>> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
>>> time we are living in right now!!
>>>
>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
>>> about it.
>>>
>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
>>> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
>>> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
>>> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>
>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just fucked!!!
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>
>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot
>>>>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark
>>>>> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of
>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to
>>>>> get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be
>>>>> prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is
>>>>> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state
>>>>> level, it would be legal.
>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>>> Myers said.
>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for
>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only
>>>>> to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>>> losing their license.
>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by
>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the
>>>>> measure to win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120
>>>>> dispensaries, none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem
>>>>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>>> than pot.
>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>>> said.
>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
>> burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."
>>
>> PirateBay
>>
>> FTW
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090503/bbad18c1/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 02:58:44 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 01:58:44 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>

I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing to  
go to fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering literly!!!!

Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple train  
of thought
They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely ruined,  
I might as well try to get rich, if I can...

I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.

On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Greedy people help it along!
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com 
> > wrote:
> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other  
> illegal drugs.
>
> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its  
> illegality.
>
> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>
> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and  
> Al Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough of  
> the Great Depression.
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> James,
> I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge  
> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and  
> assets seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were  
> like 24 years old.
>
> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>
>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to,  
>> keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!!  
>> WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>
>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the  
>> one doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were  
>> truly dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for  
>> the DEA, so I think these people think, like drug dealers still,  
>> makes as much as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's the  
>> problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the problem and its because  
>> of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people know at ANY  
>> TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE OUT  
>> ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that  
>> and the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people  
>> right!!
>>
>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out  
>> the worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in  
>> general!! even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its  
>> very, very extremely sad time we are living in right now!!
>>
>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
>> praying about it.
>>
>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying  
>> for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its  
>> just too unjust for people to be going away that are sick in  
>> prison, its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its  
>> just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>
>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just  
>> fucked!!!
>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>
>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash has  
>>> more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if the  
>>> mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with  
>>> chemicals other than THC.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting  
>>> any deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own  
>>> or you are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a  
>>> joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>
>>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>> arizona daily star
>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010  
>>> ballot that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a  
>>> system of non-profit "dispensaries."
>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more  
>>> serious addictions.
>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>>> weigh-in on the issue.
>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering  
>>> and dying."
>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone  
>>> were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they  
>>> could not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either  
>>> at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from  
>>> one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on  
>>> the state level, it would be legal.
>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient  
>>> relationship," Myers said.
>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical  
>>> marijuana - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law  
>>> afterward.
>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of  
>>> the threat of losing their license.
>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other  
>>> elements in the measure to win voters over. The state could only  
>>> issue licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be within  
>>> 500 feet of a school.
>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"  
>>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical  
>>> marijuana, none have legalized it for recreational use.
>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a  
>>> problem with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>>> California - are prone to abuse.
>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although  
>>> he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and  
>>> dangerous than pot.
>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward  
>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the  
>>> greater societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain,"  
>>> she said.
>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000  
>>> signatures.
>>>
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Donzo
>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would  
> rather burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the  
> ashes."
>
> PirateBay
>
> FTW
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/68d52180/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 03:17:41 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 00:17:41 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
In-Reply-To: <4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>

I took the risk.. maybe I'm a sucker for not making others pay out the ass
for my choices.. I don't know, I'm a bad capitalist all around.. it's left
me homeless a few times :P

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing to go to
> fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering literly!!!!
>
> Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple train of
> thought
> They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely ruined, I
> might as well try to get rich, if I can...
>
> I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Greedy people help it along!
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <<DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com>
> DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other illegal
>> drugs.
>>
>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its
>> illegality.
>>
>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>
>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and Al
>> Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough of the Great
>> Depression.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke < <klausmkl at gmail.com>
>> klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
>>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
>>> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>
>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep
>>> a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
>>> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one
>>> doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying
>>> for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
>>> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
>>> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
>>> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
>>> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
>>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
>>> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>>>
>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
>>> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
>>> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
>>> time we are living in right now!!
>>>
>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
>>> about it.
>>>
>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
>>> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
>>> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
>>> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>
>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just fucked!!!
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>
>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke < <klausmkl at gmail.com>
>>> klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot
>>>>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark
>>>>> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of
>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to
>>>>> get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be
>>>>> prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is
>>>>> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state
>>>>> level, it would be legal.
>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>>> Myers said.
>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for
>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only
>>>>> to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>>> losing their license.
>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for possession
>>>>> of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by
>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the
>>>>> measure to win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120
>>>>> dispensaries, none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities," said
>>>>> Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, none
>>>>> have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem
>>>>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California -
>>>>> are prone to abuse.
>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>>> than pot.
>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>>> said.
>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
>> burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."
>>
>> PirateBay
>>
>> FTW
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/993e761c/attachment.htm>

From klausmkl at gmail.com  Mon May  4 04:29:23 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 01:29:23 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Finest green
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EE81763-D919-41E9-BB53-8858F5AB0D09@gmail.com>

Im telling you the only way to do it is to grow yourself. You can grow  
in Ca and not have problms with the law. A judge just gave back a huge  
amount of weed to an Individual who used to to make hash oil to rub on  
his joints. If you consume and do not smoke you can have six times the  
amount legally here. The finest green right in your back yard. I am  
finished with opiates to many side effects/tolerance issue's etc etc....
On May 4, 2009, at 12:17 AM, James Forristal wrote:

> I took the risk.. maybe I'm a sucker for not making others pay out  
> the ass for my choices.. I don't know, I'm a bad capitalist all  
> around.. it's left me homeless a few times :P
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jeremy Spence  
> <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing to  
> go to fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering  
> literly!!!!
>
> Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple train  
> of thought
> They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely  
> ruined, I might as well try to get rich, if I can...
>
> I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal  
> <psychonaut101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Greedy people help it along!
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com 
>> > wrote:
>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other  
>> illegal drugs.
>>
>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its  
>> illegality.
>>
>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>
>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and  
>> Al Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough  
>> of the Great Depression.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> James,
>> I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge  
>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and  
>> assets seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were  
>> like 24 years old.
>>
>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much  
>>> to, keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in  
>>> case!!! WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>>
>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the  
>>> one doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were  
>>> truly dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry  
>>> for the DEA, so I think these people think, like drug dealers  
>>> still, makes as much as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's  
>>> the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the problem and its  
>>> because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people know at  
>>> ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE  
>>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people,  
>>> that and the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do  
>>> people right!!
>>>
>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out  
>>> the worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in  
>>> general!! even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its  
>>> very, very extremely sad time we are living in right now!!
>>>
>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
>>> praying about it.
>>>
>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start  
>>> praying for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never  
>>> know... its just too unjust for people to be going away that are  
>>> sick in prison, its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look  
>>> it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>
>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just  
>>> fucked!!!
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>>>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>>>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>>>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash  
>>>> has more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>>>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if  
>>>> the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with  
>>>> chemicals other than THC.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>>>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>>>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>>>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>>>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting  
>>>> any deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own  
>>>> or you are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a  
>>>> joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>> arizona daily star
>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>>>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>>>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010  
>>>> ballot that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a  
>>>> system of non-profit "dispensaries."
>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>>>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>>>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>>>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more  
>>>> serious addictions.
>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>>>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>>>> weigh-in on the issue.
>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>>>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>>>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering  
>>>> and dying."
>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if  
>>>> someone were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician  
>>>> they could not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot:  
>>>> Either at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles  
>>>> away from one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>>>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but  
>>>> on the state level, it would be legal.
>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient  
>>>> relationship," Myers said.
>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical  
>>>> marijuana - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the  
>>>> law afterward.
>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>>>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because  
>>>> of the threat of losing their license.
>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other  
>>>> elements in the measure to win voters over. The state could only  
>>>> issue licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be  
>>>> within 500 feet of a school.
>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these  
>>>> facilities," said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have  
>>>> legalized medical marijuana, none have legalized it for  
>>>> recreational use.
>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a  
>>>> problem with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>>>> California - are prone to abuse.
>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said -  
>>>> although he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more  
>>>> addictive and dangerous than pot.
>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step  
>>>> toward legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of  
>>>> the greater societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain,"  
>>>> she said.
>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000  
>>>> signatures.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Donzo
>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would  
>> rather burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the  
>> ashes."
>>
>> PirateBay
>>
>> FTW
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/621c71ac/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 04:43:56 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 03:43:56 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Finest green
In-Reply-To: <4EE81763-D919-41E9-BB53-8858F5AB0D09@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EE81763-D919-41E9-BB53-8858F5AB0D09@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CDE26312-A226-4312-A16C-0DE54AD0AEE7@gmail.com>

yea, I live in nazi Indiana, They fucked!!! You know what, if I ever  
got busted, I might tell them to deport me to fucking GOD cali!!!!  
mother fucker!!!

On May 4, 2009, at 3:29 AM, Michael Liedtke wrote:

> Im telling you the only way to do it is to grow yourself. You can  
> grow in Ca and not have problms with the law. A judge just gave back  
> a huge amount of weed to an Individual who used to to make hash oil  
> to rub on his joints. If you consume and do not smoke you can have  
> six times the amount legally here. The finest green right in your  
> back yard. I am finished with opiates to many side effects/tolerance  
> issue's etc etc....
> On May 4, 2009, at 12:17 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>
>> I took the risk.. maybe I'm a sucker for not making others pay out  
>> the ass for my choices.. I don't know, I'm a bad capitalist all  
>> around.. it's left me homeless a few times :P
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jeremy Spence  
>> <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing  
>> to go to fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering  
>> literly!!!!
>>
>> Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple  
>> train of thought
>> They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely  
>> ruined, I might as well try to get rich, if I can...
>>
>> I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.
>>
>>
>> On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal  
>> <psychonaut101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Greedy people help it along!
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com 
>>> > wrote:
>>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other  
>>> illegal drugs.
>>>
>>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its  
>>> illegality.
>>>
>>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>>
>>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and  
>>> Al Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough  
>>> of the Great Depression.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> James,
>>> I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge  
>>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and  
>>> assets seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were  
>>> like 24 years old.
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>
>>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much  
>>>> to, keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in  
>>>> case!!! WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the  
>>>> one doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were  
>>>> truly dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry  
>>>> for the DEA, so I think these people think, like drug dealers  
>>>> still, makes as much as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's  
>>>> the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the problem and its  
>>>> because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people know  
>>>> at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY  
>>>> ARE OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting  
>>>> people, that and the drug war keeps good people out of it, that  
>>>> would do people right!!
>>>>
>>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring  
>>>> out the worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody  
>>>> in general!! even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!!  
>>>> its very, very extremely sad time we are living in right now!!
>>>>
>>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
>>>> praying about it.
>>>>
>>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start  
>>>> praying for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never  
>>>> know... its just too unjust for people to be going away that are  
>>>> sick in prison, its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look  
>>>> it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>>
>>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just  
>>>> fucked!!!
>>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>>>>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more  
>>>>> about the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate  
>>>>> on why hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because  
>>>>> hash has more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to  
>>>>> oil's composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering  
>>>>> is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do  
>>>>> with chemicals other than THC.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com 
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>>>>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until  
>>>>> they oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot  
>>>>> in Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not  
>>>>> getting any deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow  
>>>>> your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the  
>>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use  
>>>>> after  opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana  
>>>>> - or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group  
>>>>> seeking voter approval gets its way next year.
>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010  
>>>>> ballot that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a  
>>>>> system of non-profit "dispensaries."
>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>>>>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>>>>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step  
>>>>> towards full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to  
>>>>> more serious addictions.
>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>>>>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>>>>> weigh-in on the issue.
>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>>>>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>>>>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering  
>>>>> and dying."
>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if  
>>>>> someone were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician  
>>>>> they could not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana  
>>>>> possession.
>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot:  
>>>>> Either at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles  
>>>>> away from one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law -  
>>>>> which is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs  
>>>>> - but on the state level, it would be legal.
>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient  
>>>>> relationship," Myers said.
>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical  
>>>>> marijuana - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the  
>>>>> law afterward.
>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>>>>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because  
>>>>> of the threat of losing their license.
>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>>>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other  
>>>>> elements in the measure to win voters over. The state could only  
>>>>> issue licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be  
>>>>> within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these  
>>>>> facilities," said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have  
>>>>> legalized medical marijuana, none have legalized it for  
>>>>> recreational use.
>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a  
>>>>> problem with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>>>>> California - are prone to abuse.
>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said -  
>>>>> although he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more  
>>>>> addictive and dangerous than pot.
>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step  
>>>>> toward legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of  
>>>>> the greater societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain,"  
>>>>> she said.
>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000  
>>>>> signatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Donzo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would  
>>> rather burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the  
>>> ashes."
>>>
>>> PirateBay
>>>
>>> FTW
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/28e49d6b/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 04:58:32 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 03:58:32 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <C824FA92-8182-49E3-B412-DCC15FED1FD0@gmail.com>

INDIANA IS FUCKED!! ON MEDICAL MARIJUANA!!! FUCKED!!!

Talk to my doctor, THEY ARE IDIOTS WHEN ITS COMES TO THIS SHITE!!  
IDIOTS!!!!!!!

I makes me sooo god damm madd!! I want to have a shoot out with  
police!!! And this stupid ass city!!!!

It really makes me want to FUCKING MOVE!!!! but I don't have the  
money!!! I am got forced into a stupid ass bladder disease young!!!  
and its fucked the living life out of me!! and I around idiots all day  
long this stupid ass fucking town!!! I fucking hate it!!

I always want to get the fuck out of this stupid ass town!! I wish I  
could!!! I hate this place!!! Its sooo small minded its sick!! even my  
mother s idiot most of the fucking time!! I fucking hate it!!

at first I thought it was wrong for that gay guy to start saying  
calling miss Cali ever name in the book,(miss what WTF, I am so fake- 
I've probably blown every guy in power here("all behind closed doors"  
no pic, or video of the deed!! of corse, oh that put them out of the  
race for being "miss fake of the year!!!!"),  own by Trump-I''ve had  
15 wife's, but everybody else is loser) pagean) But now, I am starting  
to understand why the gays are soooo madd!!! 

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 04:59:23 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 03:59:23 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <C97D70B9-570C-4291-BF8D-B74898CC0E70@gmail.com>

Yea, not saying what people are doing is right, I not saying that it  
is. I would never do that. But I just talking about how people "think"

I talk my stupid ass old school doc, that I very much respect, and  
like, but its all Bull shit!! you know!!  100% BULL SHITE!!!!!

It the same old shite!!! I fucking hate it!! I think its fucked!!

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 05:05:14 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 04:05:14 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CE1CC975-3587-49C4-B0A2-3357D4C71280@gmail.com>

I few plant in my city and they take my fucking house!! not that I  
fucking have one!! because I am sick on fucking ssi!!! and can't own  
ANYTHING!! legally!!!



From klausmkl at gmail.com  Mon May  4 14:42:51 2009
From: klausmkl at gmail.com (Michael Liedtke)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:42:51 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Big Pharma
In-Reply-To: <108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>

  Big Pharma and their lobbyist's would never allow Pot legalized on a  
federal level. Look at the drug (Ativan) a very nasty substance to rid  
yourself of. One Company now produces it even though it's generic they  
raised the price 2600% since 2000. WOW. The only thing we can do is  
grow our own everything like they did years ago. Capatilism = Greed.  
Remember money truly is the root of all evil (St.Paul).





On May 4, 2009, at 12:17 AM, James Forristal wrote:

> I took the risk.. maybe I'm a sucker for not making others pay out  
> the ass for my choices.. I don't know, I'm a bad capitalist all  
> around.. it's left me homeless a few times :P
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jeremy Spence  
> <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing to  
> go to fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering  
> literly!!!!
>
> Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple train  
> of thought
> They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely  
> ruined, I might as well try to get rich, if I can...
>
> I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal  
> <psychonaut101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Greedy people help it along!
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com 
>> > wrote:
>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other  
>> illegal drugs.
>>
>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its  
>> illegality.
>>
>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>
>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and  
>> Al Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough  
>> of the Great Depression.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> James,
>> I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge  
>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and  
>> assets seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were  
>> like 24 years old.
>>
>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>
>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much  
>>> to, keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in  
>>> case!!! WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>>
>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the  
>>> one doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were  
>>> truly dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry  
>>> for the DEA, so I think these people think, like drug dealers  
>>> still, makes as much as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's  
>>> the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the problem and its  
>>> because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people know at  
>>> ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE  
>>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people,  
>>> that and the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do  
>>> people right!!
>>>
>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out  
>>> the worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in  
>>> general!! even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its  
>>> very, very extremely sad time we are living in right now!!
>>>
>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
>>> praying about it.
>>>
>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start  
>>> praying for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never  
>>> know... its just too unjust for people to be going away that are  
>>> sick in prison, its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look  
>>> it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>
>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just  
>>> fucked!!!
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>>>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about  
>>>> the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why  
>>>> hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because hash  
>>>> has more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's  
>>>> composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering is if  
>>>> the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do with  
>>>> chemicals other than THC.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>>>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>>>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they  
>>>> oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in  
>>>> Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not getting  
>>>> any deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow your own  
>>>> or you are looking at 1000 a month for the dispensaries(what a  
>>>> joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>> arizona daily star
>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana -  
>>>> or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking  
>>>> voter approval gets its way next year.
>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010  
>>>> ballot that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a  
>>>> system of non-profit "dispensaries."
>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>>>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>>>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step towards  
>>>> full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to more  
>>>> serious addictions.
>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>>>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>>>> weigh-in on the issue.
>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>>>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>>>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering  
>>>> and dying."
>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if  
>>>> someone were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician  
>>>> they could not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot:  
>>>> Either at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles  
>>>> away from one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which  
>>>> is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but  
>>>> on the state level, it would be legal.
>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient  
>>>> relationship," Myers said.
>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical  
>>>> marijuana - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the  
>>>> law afterward.
>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>>>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because  
>>>> of the threat of losing their license.
>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other  
>>>> elements in the measure to win voters over. The state could only  
>>>> issue licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be  
>>>> within 500 feet of a school.
>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these  
>>>> facilities," said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have  
>>>> legalized medical marijuana, none have legalized it for  
>>>> recreational use.
>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a  
>>>> problem with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>>>> California - are prone to abuse.
>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said -  
>>>> although he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more  
>>>> addictive and dangerous than pot.
>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step  
>>>> toward legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of  
>>>> the greater societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain,"  
>>>> she said.
>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000  
>>>> signatures.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Donzo
>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would  
>> rather burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the  
>> ashes."
>>
>> PirateBay
>>
>> FTW
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/d00b5f4c/attachment.htm>

From athabaskana at gmail.com  Mon May  4 15:14:59 2009
From: athabaskana at gmail.com (sitkaa)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:14:59 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Big Pharma
In-Reply-To: <74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
	<74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b4318a620905041214w41eb878k96e5a62cc102967d@mail.gmail.com>

I can certainly see how money would be thought of as the root of all evil.
It is generally the motivator behind many things that we do. But I think
money is just a medium of exchange. The motivation we have for the things we
do is the root of all wevil.
This motivation can self-serving or group serving. It can serve a purpose or
a cause. And it can be simply to better the world, to give with no
expectation of reciprocity.
The medium of exchange, money, was once an expression of love. In our
current society, it is an expression of greed. This is the nature of the
Kali yuga.
BTW, there are other economic models in the world than the predominant IOJ
model used to inculcate greed and garner power. I would love it if someone
asked me about that ; ) (Of course that would get off the ibogaine topic,
and into the most taboo ground that exists in our society... Indeed with the
current 'Hate law' being debated in the Senate, it may soon be illegal to
mention the purveyors of this scheme to control humanity.)
But whatever. I can wait an eternity if need be for everyone to come to
their senses. Life goes on forever, even in hell.

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Big Pharma and their lobbyist's would never allow Pot legalized on a
> federal level. Look at the drug (Ativan) a very nasty substance to rid
> yourself of. One Company now produces it even though it's generic they
> raised the price 2600% since 2000. WOW. The only thing we can do is grow our
> own everything like they did years ago. Capatilism = Greed. Remember money
> truly is the root of all evil (St.Paul).
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 4, 2009, at 12:17 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>
> I took the risk.. maybe I'm a sucker for not making others pay out the ass
> for my choices.. I don't know, I'm a bad capitalist all around.. it's left
> me homeless a few times :P
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing to go to
>> fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering literly!!!!
>>
>> Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple train of
>> thought
>> They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely ruined, I
>> might as well try to get rich, if I can...
>>
>> I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.
>>
>>
>> On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Greedy people help it along!
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <
>> DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other illegal
>>> drugs.
>>>
>>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its
>>> illegality.
>>>
>>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>>
>>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and Al
>>> Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough of the Great
>>> Depression.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
>>>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
>>>> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep
>>>> a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
>>>> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one
>>>> doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying
>>>> for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
>>>> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
>>>> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
>>>> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
>>>> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
>>>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
>>>> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>>>>
>>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
>>>> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
>>>> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
>>>> time we are living in right now!!
>>>>
>>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
>>>> about it.
>>>>
>>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
>>>> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
>>>> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
>>>> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>>
>>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just
>>>> fucked!!!
>>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>>>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>>>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>>>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>>>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>>>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>>>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot
>>>>>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark
>>>>>> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of
>>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to
>>>>>> get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be
>>>>>> prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is
>>>>>> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state
>>>>>> level, it would be legal.
>>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>>>> Myers said.
>>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for
>>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only
>>>>>> to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>>>> losing their license.
>>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for
>>>>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by
>>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the
>>>>>> measure to win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120
>>>>>> dispensaries, none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"
>>>>>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana,
>>>>>> none have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem
>>>>>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California
>>>>>> - are prone to abuse.
>>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>>>> than pot.
>>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would rather
>>> burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes."
>>>
>>> PirateBay
>>>
>>> FTW
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/80243433/attachment.htm>

From junkboy64 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 15:17:57 2009
From: junkboy64 at gmail.com (junkboy)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 13:17:57 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] Big Pharma
In-Reply-To: <74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
	<74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9868fdb30905041217u5fc107a9rbfa96cfc6e6bd372@mail.gmail.com>

But i make money and i am an avid capatilist.... yet im not evil, and im not
really that greedy... mostly im happy with my bills paid.....
now i feel evil.....
*sigh* (turning soul over to satan)



On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Big Pharma and their lobbyist's would never allow Pot legalized on a
> federal level. Look at the drug (Ativan) a very nasty substance to rid
> yourself of. One Company now produces it even though it's generic they
> raised the price 2600% since 2000. WOW. The only thing we can do is grow our
> own everything like they did years ago. Capatilism = Greed. Remember money
> truly is the root of all evil (St.Paul).
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/a29fad93/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 17:01:32 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 16:01:32 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Big Pharma
In-Reply-To: <9868fdb30905041217u5fc107a9rbfa96cfc6e6bd372@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
	<74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
	<9868fdb30905041217u5fc107a9rbfa96cfc6e6bd372@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5981E12-5320-45D1-A892-5B5A905633A6@gmail.com>

I wrote my Indiana senator , and wrote him about medical marijuana, I  
also wrote my doc, and gave him some info.

I don't not use marijuana, but I would at least like to try it, to not  
take so more fucking horrible!!! opiates!! I FUCKING HATE TAKING  
THEM!! They suck!!! Good for pain, and work well!! but I am 10+ years  
on them!! and believe me!! YOU DON'T WANT TO BE ON THEM FOR THAT  
FUCKING LONG!! its no life to lead!!

Oh yea, their just great in the front part!! but 10 years down the  
road, man, they are un believible!! I am been on everything you could  
possibly be on!! worse then ANYTHING!!

10 years of opiates makes 30 years of hardcore steroids use, look  
FUN!!!!

On May 4, 2009, at 2:17 PM, junkboy wrote:

> But i make money and i am an avid capatilist.... yet im not evil,  
> and im not really that greedy... mostly im happy with my bills  
> paid.....
> now i feel evil.....
> *sigh* (turning soul over to satan)
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Michael Liedtke  
> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Big Pharma and their lobbyist's would never allow Pot legalized on  
> a federal level. Look at the drug (Ativan) a very nasty substance to  
> rid yourself of. One Company now produces it even though it's  
> generic they raised the price 2600% since 2000. WOW. The only thing  
> we can do is grow our own everything like they did years ago.  
> Capatilism = Greed. Remember money truly is the root of all evil  
> (St.Paul).
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/c7e30761/attachment.htm>

From jlspence12 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 17:03:08 2009
From: jlspence12 at gmail.com (Jeremy Spence)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 16:03:08 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Big Pharma
In-Reply-To: <74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<046A70B0-8F7F-4EDF-B88E-3F623B08002D@gmail.com>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
	<74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD0EE1A5-6006-427A-A08A-C2C8043373D9@gmail.com>

yes, it is!!
On May 4, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:

>  Big Pharma and their lobbyist's would never allow Pot legalized on  
> a federal level. Look at the drug (Ativan) a very nasty substance to  
> rid yourself of. One Company now produces it even though it's  
> generic they raised the price 2600% since 2000. WOW. The only thing  
> we can do is grow our own everything like they did years ago.  
> Capatilism = Greed. Remember money truly is the root of all evil  
> (St.Paul).
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 4, 2009, at 12:17 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>
>> I took the risk.. maybe I'm a sucker for not making others pay out  
>> the ass for my choices.. I don't know, I'm a bad capitalist all  
>> around.. it's left me homeless a few times :P
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jeremy Spence  
>> <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing  
>> to go to fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering  
>> literly!!!!
>>
>> Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple  
>> train of thought
>> They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely  
>> ruined, I might as well try to get rich, if I can...
>>
>> I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.
>>
>>
>> On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal  
>> <psychonaut101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Greedy people help it along!
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com 
>>> > wrote:
>>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other  
>>> illegal drugs.
>>>
>>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its  
>>> illegality.
>>>
>>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>>
>>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and  
>>> Al Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough  
>>> of the Great Depression.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke  
>>> <klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> James,
>>> I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge  
>>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and  
>>> assets seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were  
>>> like 24 years old.
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>
>>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much  
>>>> to, keep a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in  
>>>> case!!! WHICH CAN AND DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the  
>>>> one doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were  
>>>> truly dying for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry  
>>>> for the DEA, so I think these people think, like drug dealers  
>>>> still, makes as much as you can't and get the fuck out!!! That's  
>>>> the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the problem and its  
>>>> because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people know  
>>>> at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY  
>>>> ARE OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting  
>>>> people, that and the drug war keeps good people out of it, that  
>>>> would do people right!!
>>>>
>>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring  
>>>> out the worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody  
>>>> in general!! even doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!!  
>>>> its very, very extremely sad time we are living in right now!!
>>>>
>>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right  
>>>> praying about it.
>>>>
>>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start  
>>>> praying for Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never  
>>>> know... its just too unjust for people to be going away that are  
>>>> sick in prison, its just is! I am sorry, no matter, how you look  
>>>> it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>>
>>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just  
>>>> fucked!!!
>>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to  
>>>>> mitigate opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more  
>>>>> about the contrasting effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate  
>>>>> on why hash would have more effect than oil? Would it be because  
>>>>> hash has more different types of cannabinoids, as opposed to  
>>>>> oil's composition being more straight THC? What I am wondering  
>>>>> is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to do  
>>>>> with chemicals other than THC.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke <klausmkl at gmail.com 
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to  
>>>>> help with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until  
>>>>> they oiled it down. Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot  
>>>>> in Berkley,Ca. Problem with dispensaries here. You are not  
>>>>> getting any deal. You pay black market prices. You have to grow  
>>>>> your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the  
>>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use  
>>>>> after  opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana  
>>>>> - or even grow the drug in their home - if a national group  
>>>>> seeking voter approval gets its way next year.
>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010  
>>>>> ballot that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a  
>>>>> system of non-profit "dispensaries."
>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people  
>>>>> suffering from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But  
>>>>> critics have long argued legalizing medical use is a step  
>>>>> towards full legalization of a drug they see as a "gateway" to  
>>>>> more serious addictions.
>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will  
>>>>> mark the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to  
>>>>> weigh-in on the issue.
>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona  
>>>>> campaign manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project.  
>>>>> "It provides a level of mercy to these people who are suffering  
>>>>> and dying."
>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of  
>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if  
>>>>> someone were to get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician  
>>>>> they could not be prosecuted in the state for marijuana  
>>>>> possession.
>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot:  
>>>>> Either at the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles  
>>>>> away from one, they could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law -  
>>>>> which is why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs  
>>>>> - but on the state level, it would be legal.
>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient  
>>>>> relationship," Myers said.
>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for  
>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical  
>>>>> marijuana - only to see the Legislature essentially repeal the  
>>>>> law afterward.
>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite  
>>>>> that, doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because  
>>>>> of the threat of losing their license.
>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for  
>>>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by  
>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other  
>>>>> elements in the measure to win voters over. The state could only  
>>>>> issue licenses for 120 dispensaries, none of which could be  
>>>>> within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these  
>>>>> facilities," said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have  
>>>>> legalized medical marijuana, none have legalized it for  
>>>>> recreational use.
>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a  
>>>>> problem with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in  
>>>>> California - are prone to abuse.
>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said -  
>>>>> although he says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more  
>>>>> addictive and dangerous than pot.
>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step  
>>>>> toward legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of  
>>>>> the greater societal effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state  
>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain,"  
>>>>> she said.
>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000  
>>>>> signatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Donzo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> "We can't pay and we wouldn't pay. Even if I had the money I would  
>>> rather burn everything I owned, and I wouldn't even give them the  
>>> ashes."
>>>
>>> PirateBay
>>>
>>> FTW
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090504/6d625199/attachment.htm>

From psychonaut101 at gmail.com  Mon May  4 17:35:39 2009
From: psychonaut101 at gmail.com (James Forristal)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 14:35:39 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] Big Pharma
In-Reply-To: <CD0EE1A5-6006-427A-A08A-C2C8043373D9@gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP669E85DA2A51262E55C622EB740@phx.gbl>
	<b4318a620905022012j655df9b3r7ec1046dde263788@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7E0CC8-DD51-41C5-9EFA-7369BC7F47F2@gmail.com>
	<91BE2894-E0C6-4F76-9B36-40387C4AF003@gmail.com>
	<7237bf9f0905031534yb1cbd64rb0b7e0b3e7233573@mail.gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905031715p56795687x4337b8afcd203068@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D626531-8F5B-4482-9677-6EB69B25907A@gmail.com>
	<108a1b7d0905040017g7a0a0417q29efd98cfce3e29b@mail.gmail.com>
	<74A7306D-A11C-4512-97F7-3012566DBD26@gmail.com>
	<CD0EE1A5-6006-427A-A08A-C2C8043373D9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108a1b7d0905041435h23a7e91aue6cd987498f37be1@mail.gmail.com>

I think something like money goes back to that intentions and motivations
thing.  In "nature" that we feel we are so not a part of, things are
constantly cycle through, in one end, out the other.  It's a constant moving
of energy and the goal seems to be for life in the universe to become more
and more conscious of itself.
Money is just a tool and if used very very consciously it may not be so
harmful.  It's when you hoard money/power to extremes for your own advantage
while those who you ride this wake of power upon suffer that a problem
arises.  This is easy to do when we play games of hierarchies and
domination, in fact I'd say it's inherent to the game.

If I take myself back to a reality where it's just a punch of smart monkeys
running around the forest and wonder just what gave one monkey the "right"
to make this tree or that plant HIS, and then to hoard it's offerings to
life to create power and wealth for him while others slave for it... it
seems to me this whole paradigm is based on thievery.

Though I don't think fighting against it is the way to fix it, it's going to
take a change in peoples hearts, and opening up and willingness to be
vulnerable with others and the self, as this occurs reality will change for
the better, and slowly we will no longer needs these "tools" to assuage our
insecurities.. we just may find out that heaven for others means heaven for
us.. duh!  :)

We are a long way off from that reality at this point, so many
people/children in this world are angry and hurt and when given the chance
they will fuck another person over blind to get one up on them.. it kinda
sucks, it would be nice to see us, at least, moving away from that sort of
state of being.



On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> yes, it is!!
>
> On May 4, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Michael Liedtke wrote:
>
>  Big Pharma and their lobbyist's would never allow Pot legalized on a
> federal level. Look at the drug (Ativan) a very nasty substance to rid
> yourself of. One Company now produces it even though it's generic they
> raised the price 2600% since 2000. WOW. The only thing we can do is grow our
> own everything like they did years ago. Capatilism = Greed. Remember money
> truly is the root of all evil (St.Paul).
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 4, 2009, at 12:17 AM, James Forristal wrote:
>
> I took the risk.. maybe I'm a sucker for not making others pay out the ass
> for my choices.. I don't know, I'm a bad capitalist all around.. it's left
> me homeless a few times :P
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence12 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I don't think it as much as geed as it is poeple just not willing to go to
>> fucking prison, unless there going to make a killering literly!!!!
>>
>> Not what I"d do, but I've been inlighten, but I can see poeple train of
>> thought
>> They hey, if going to risk getting my life fucking completely ruined, I
>> might as well try to get rich, if I can...
>>
>> I never been that way, but I cam see why poeple who get like that.
>>
>>
>> On May 3, 2009, at 7:15 PM, James Forristal <psychonaut101 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Greedy people help it along!
>>
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nyc Labrets <<DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com>
>> DigitalKomponents at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Government sets the street price on marijuana and all other illegal
>>> drugs.
>>>
>>> The money around it and the violence would not exist without its
>>> illegality.
>>>
>>> Have you ever seen a beer truck surrounded by men with machine guns?
>>>
>>> It was a common sight on US streets during alcohol Prohibition and Al
>>> Capone made $500 million dollars in one year during the trough of the Great
>>> Depression.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Michael Liedtke < <klausmkl at gmail.com>
>>> klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> James,I talked with a DA about the dispensaries. He said  they are huge
>>>> cash cows. Two people a few years ago were busted down here and assets
>>>> seized. They had over million in the bank each. They were like 24 years old.
>>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Spence wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To be fare, these so called dispensaries are charging sooo much to, keep
>>>> a high powered lawyer on the fucking pay roll, just in case!!! WHICH CAN AND
>>>> DOES HAPPEN!!!!
>>>> Even in Cali!! yea, I wouldn't be ripping people off if I was the one
>>>> doing it, hell I be stupid and probably hook people that were truly dying
>>>> for free(some of them) But man, its still the worry for the DEA, so I think
>>>> these people think, like drug dealers still, makes as much as you can't and
>>>> get the fuck out!!! That's the problem, its still too doggy, dog. That the
>>>> problem and its because of the pressure from the DEA, I mean, these people
>>>> know at ANY TIME, THEY CAN BE HIT WITH THE DEA AND ITS OVER!! AND THEY ARE
>>>> OUT ALL THIS MONEY!!  So this is the reason they shorting people, that and
>>>> the drug war keeps good people out of it, that would do people right!!
>>>>
>>>> That's the damm problem with the GOD damm drug war!! its bring out the
>>>> worse in these people!!! and I feel pretty much everybody in general!! even
>>>> doctors sworn to help the sick and the dying!! its very, very extremely sad
>>>> time we are living in right now!!
>>>>
>>>> I really hope it gets better!! I really do, I am going to right praying
>>>> about it.
>>>>
>>>> I have already prayed for Simon in africa, I going to start praying for
>>>> Obama to see the light!!!! Doubtful, but you never know... its just too
>>>> unjust for people to be going away that are sick in prison, its just is! I
>>>> am sorry, no matter, how you look it, its just plain fucking wrong!!!
>>>>
>>>> They treat us like we are baby killers or something, it's just
>>>> fucked!!!
>>>> On May 2, 2009, at 10:12 PM, sitkaa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Michael, would you care to expound upon the use of marijuana to mitigate
>>>> opiate use? Specifically, would you talk abit more about the contrasting
>>>> effects of hash vs. oil? Care to speculate on why hash would have more
>>>> effect than oil? Would it be because hash has more different types of
>>>> cannabinoids, as opposed to oil's composition being more straight THC? What
>>>> I am wondering is if the mitigating effects of St. Mary might have more to
>>>> do with chemicals other than THC.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Michael Liedtke < <klausmkl at gmail.com>
>>>> klausmkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I live in Ca. Had surgery several months ago(5), use cannabis to help
>>>>> with less Opiates. It worked great. Hash was best until they oiled it down.
>>>>> Then it was a waste. . I use to buy the pot in Berkley,Ca. Problem with
>>>>> dispensaries here. You are not getting any deal. You pay black market
>>>>> prices. You have to grow your own or you are looking at 1000 a month for the
>>>>> dispensaries(what a joke). Anyway I ended the cannabis use after  opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:56 AM, DC in AZ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Group wants medical pot on ballot in 2010
>>>>>> By Daniel Scarpinato
>>>>>> arizona daily star
>>>>>> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.22.2009
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PHOENIX - A doctor's note will allow Arizonans to buy marijuana - or
>>>>>> even grow the drug in their home - if a national group seeking voter
>>>>>> approval gets its way next year.
>>>>>> The group has drafted a measure they hope to get on the 2010 ballot
>>>>>> that would legalize medical marijuana here and set up a system of non-profit
>>>>>> "dispensaries."
>>>>>> Supporters say marijuana use has great benefits for people suffering
>>>>>> from serious illnesses ranging from cancer to HIV. But critics have long
>>>>>> argued legalizing medical use is a step towards full legalization of a drug
>>>>>> they see as a "gateway" to more serious addictions.
>>>>>> If the backers get their measure on next year's ballot, it will mark
>>>>>> the fourth time since 1996 Arizona voters have a chance to weigh-in on the
>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>> "It's the right thing to do," said Andrew Myers, the Arizona campaign
>>>>>> manager hired by the national Marijuana Policy Project. "It provides a level
>>>>>> of mercy to these people who are suffering and dying."
>>>>>> Organizers have yet to submit draft language to the Secretary of
>>>>>> State's Office. But Myers said the initiative would say if someone were to
>>>>>> get a "recommendation" from a licensed physician they could not be
>>>>>> prosecuted in the state for marijuana possession.
>>>>>> There's two ways patients could get their hands on the pot: Either at
>>>>>> the non-profit dispensaries, or if they're 25 miles away from one, they
>>>>>> could grow the drug in their own home.
>>>>>> Those using the drug would still be violating federal law - which is
>>>>>> why doctors can't give a prescription like other drugs - but on the state
>>>>>> level, it would be legal.
>>>>>> "We shouldn't be interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,"
>>>>>> Myers said.
>>>>>> Arizonans have showed a willingness to legalize the practice for
>>>>>> medical purposes before. In 1996, voters approved medical marijuana - only
>>>>>> to see the Legislature essentially repeal the law afterward.
>>>>>> Two years later, voters re-ratified the '96 measure. But despite that,
>>>>>> doctors have been unwilling to prescribe the drug because of the threat of
>>>>>> losing their license.
>>>>>> A 2002 initiative with a provision to reduce the penalty for
>>>>>> possession of up to two ounces to a fine was rejected by voters.
>>>>>> This time supporters say they've worked out the legal issues by
>>>>>> avoiding the mention of prescriptions. And there are other elements in the
>>>>>> measure to win voters over. The state could only issue licenses for 120
>>>>>> dispensaries, none of which could be within 500 feet of a school.
>>>>>> "We're sensitive to the public's concerns about these facilities,"
>>>>>> said Myers, adding of the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana,
>>>>>> none have legalized it for recreational use.
>>>>>> But some are still skeptical.
>>>>>> State Sen. Ron Gould, R-Lake Havasu, says he doesn't have a problem
>>>>>> with people using marijuana for medical purposes.
>>>>>> But he said the dispensaries - similar to a system used in California
>>>>>> - are prone to abuse.
>>>>>> "I think that's actually how they abuse it," Gould said - although he
>>>>>> says doctors prescribe other drugs that are more addictive and dangerous
>>>>>> than pot.
>>>>>> Sen. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, says even if the move is a step toward
>>>>>> legalization, she's not threatened, pointing to some of the greater societal
>>>>>> effects she sees from alcohol.
>>>>>> A champion of legalizing assisted suicide, Lopez said the state
>>>>>> shouldn't try to be "medical arbiters."
>>>>>> "Marijuana has been very helpful for people to deal with pain," she
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> The group has until July 2010 to gather more than 150,000 signatures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Donzo
>>>>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>>>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: <http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine>
>>>> http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>