[Ibogaine] suboxone

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Mon Mar 16 04:03:43 EDT 2009




________________________________
From: Gary Donovan Youree <gdy1957 at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, 16 March, 2009 3:20:54
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] suboxone


I came from Arkansas to NYC to try Ibogaine.
I thought I had tried everything to quit heroin and oxycontin.
i met a couple men in NJ. I brought my 19 year old son with me (I am 51).
I took quite a few of the homemade capsules and it took a long time to take effect. I had
taken my last shot of tar 12 hours earlier.
I was expecting a bad trip and at the worst a bad trip while withdrawing from dope.
 
I had a duel trip or actually a three way trip at once.
My left brain (and I dont know why I felt it was my left) had internal hallucenations. There were blinking colored lights like from a giant early 80;s main frame computer.
My right brain had terriable internal images of car crashes, train wrecks, pedestrain accidents. In other words it was 12-15 hours of visual blood, guts, brains, etc. All pretty much silent, thank God, except for the screeching of brakes.
While this went on I saw full visual hallucenations of people in the room. Yes African natives for the most part. I couldnt walk worth a shit.
I felt no withdraw during this time.
I did, however, come to an unfortunant conclusion during the end of this trip - on that stuck with me for a year or more. That was that suicide was my way out.
I didnt have any withdraw but by the end of the next day I was sick. You know that totally
beat feeling you have after 10+ years of opiate use...then no more opiates. I missed my flight of course and couldnt leave the room for 8 days. My son helped me at the airport and wheel chaired me around.
When I got home, still possesssed with the idea that my life was over, I scored some oxycontin. I bought 6 80mg pills and shot them all at once...which was not unusual for me.
I had a very high tolerance and usually used 10 to 16 80mg oxy per day or an oz of tar in two or three days.
I was expecting more of an effect but it was no different than before.
I still could not get a nod.
I did get extremly depressed.. Nine days was the longest I had gone since my addiction and there I had gone and blown it.
I tried other treatment centers after that..usually in big cities with heroin. Detroit, Miami, etc.
I have done the Waisman method of rapid detox (much like Ibo), the "I can now tell the court I have been to rehad" in Florida. I think it was called Summer House. A very nice place with big screen TVs, overstuffed couches, and cocktails of codiene and valium...which DID make me nod. I dont know how this treatment was supposed to end..I didnt wait to find out. After about 5 days my wife and I left, found a hooker who found use some brown powder, and did a good shot of dope. We stayed a week or so there in Miami then flew home with what I hoped was a months worth of dope. It lasted 4 days.
Went to Detroit to try the rapid detox method again but when we got there the doctor had lost his license. He said he would get it back in a couple of week...so we holed up downtown and found white powder...very cheap.
Detroit is a very sad city. Lots of people living on the street strung out on crack. We took in a young black street person who was hooked on crack. He had aids and was pretty sick. We bought his crack for him and gave him a warm place to sleep. It was Christmas time.
The market there sells crack for 2.00 and 5.00 bags of H.
We got by on 100 a day the first week..which was very cheap for us. Oxy cost us a grand a day back home. By the time the doctor found he wasnt getting his license back it had been a month and we were up to 30 - 40 10.00 bags per day.
We got on line and found a place that would take us in to detox.
They gave us Suboxen...which didnt do a thing for me. It was your standard waste of time 4 day detox. They gave us four, three, two, then a script for one Subox to go home on. It was the day after Christmas.
Of course we used as soon as we got home.
I used to have a large recycling business..mostly pallets. We had 50 trucks, 250 semi-trailers, 26 forklifts, and 150 employees. Both of us former addicts, my wife and I moved to Arkansas from KC. We quit drugs, but still drank, for nearly 25 years.
The city of Rogers, AR basicly shut out business down after we were annexed into the city limits. My business, which did 10 million a year was worthless.
I never should of taken out that last loan. I rarely borrowed money but in a vain attempt to keep my business going (we were grandfathered in but labled a non-complient business with no rights to expand or repair any part of the company (like out office which was destroyed by fire) that fell into disrepair.
The best employees finally quit when appeals ran out with the local planning board. No local attorney was interested in taking it further. The bank turned ugly. They combined my line of credit and the mortgage I took out on the business property and upped the interest to 12%. Then they took to redoing the note every 4 months so my iterest was always higher than my principle on each monthly 18,000 payment.
I had a sugery that year (burst appendix) and so did my wife. I got hooked on the pain pills.
We fell into a coke binge and did an oz a week for nearly 9 months and began shooting oxy with the coke.
Quit the coke but couldnt quit the ozy. That was in 2001.
My business went to shit.
Afterwards, doing the books for taxes from 2002 to present it looks like we got embezzeled well over a million bucks.
I was able to sell the property at the top of the market. The 15 acres of business property, which was nearly all concrete, covered wtih 4 large ware houses, was appraised as farm land. All the improvments were deducted from that for the cost of razing the place.
Needless to say I was ripe for relapse.
We sold the place finally for 2.5 million. During that time I had a firesale with all my equipment. Sold to pay the bank each month and for our habit...which was well over 10k per week. The property sale gained us a small house a 9 acres across town. Without that we would have nothing.
We shot it all up. Towards the end I bought things thinking it would keep me from buying more dope. I knew by this point the only was to quit was to run out of money.
I bought a new Harley and a new boat and 25k worth of rehab at a local place called Decision Point.
We kept walking out of rehab and finally they would not take us together.
I had a 5 year old warrent for oxy possession and needles. They added the failure to appear as a third felony. While trying to cope with withdraw at home I finally got arrested and spent a few hellish days in the county jail.
We sold the boat we bought for 40k back to the same dealership for 9k. I got my wife in rehab down south of us and I went back to decision point in Bentonville.
They were not used to opiate addicts...at least not our type. Heroin is not available in our area. I spent over 30 days in the detox part of the program where most people only spend 1-3 days. I had a 42 day program to do and the days in detox didnt count. I just couldnt face the classes. I nearly lost my mind. After the initial withdraw I lost the ability to sleep.
They offered no medication for withdraw.
I was about to be booted from the program becauses I couldnt handle the classes. They had offered me Subox earlier on but I had declined.
I took it after 34 days of being stone sober. 
It was a huge help.. I was offered, at my extra cost of course, two 8 mg tablets per day. That was soon too much...even for me.
I was, however, able to go to their damned classes..plus the 3-4 AA meetings per day that were required. I soon weened byself down to 4 mg per day and after 77 days in DP I was released. My hope was to get drug court. It turned out that my time a DP was a waste, except for getting clean. Decision Point was a prerequisit for drug court. I was declined either because of my age or because of prior felonies..even though I had them all expunged. My last felony was in 81.
I convinced them to refill by Suboxen and let me come in daily to get one 8mg pill.
This went on for over a month and nearly brings me up to the present.
I gave them the money for a second refill but they never filled it. I had taken a piss test for them and evently tested postive for weed. I dont usually smoke weed but had used a little with my kid.
So I have relapsed.
Evidently Subox is a pretty strong drug. I thought that after 120 days without opiates I would of lost my tolerance. Not so.
I did 3 80's and found it to be only a little stronger than before I went in rehab.
I have done my very best to stay clean.
Even on the Subox I would wake up sweating and feeling like shit.
The depression and lack of any ambition of any kind is the worst. Facing the finacial ruin, eating a soup kitchens, going back to scavenging pallets and taking them to my former competitors for 50 bucks a day really sucks.
I have relapsed several times in the last couple of weeks. I cannot even get out of bed the days I dont use something.
I am strung out again. I couldnt of even posted this if I didnt use today.
I tried drinking  but lost all desire to get drunk. It is like once you have taken the mother of all drugs to the limit of all limits, nothing else works.
I would be happy to use nothing but these damned opiates have fucked my brain chemically in some way.
I am going to work on getting my suboxen back. I feel I can use it to keep off other opiates...and at a couple bucks a day keep from losing what little I have left.
 
Any end of the road experience out there?
Is there any chance that if I ween myself off Subox that I will feel like living again?
Have I fucked myself for the rest of my life?
How long can it take, clean from all opiates, to feel normal feelings again?
 
Has anyone really made it?
 
I wish the best for all junkies.
I think the ibogaine does have some potential. I think the guy who supplied me with it and helped me thru the trip was truely a caring person.
One thing these clinics and this ibogaine man dont understand is that it is not the withdraw, atleast the initial withdraw, that is what keeps you from getting clean. What is really hard is (how long?) getting used to living without opiates after years and years using them.
I can only take you so far with my experience.
The initial withdraw (basicly the time it takes to take a normal shit again) lasts two or three weeks. The depression and apathy I just dont know. I know I couldnt get off the couch until I got the Suboxen. So I went short of 5 weeks with nothing. Had a poor appitite andn couldnt sleep.
On the Suboxen I could sleep and had a good appatite. I would take 4 mg in the am. By noon I would actually feel pretty good. I would go to sleep feeling pretty good. By morning I would feel like shit.
It was easy going from 16mg to 4mg but I couldnt do 2mg.
I know it is partly from where I live  but I have yet to meet a recovered opiate addict who used the amounts I used and for as long as I used.
I got to the point where I would do 800mg of oxy in one shot and feel hardly anything..but a headache. I got to one point where I couldnt shoot myself out of withdraw. Now that is scary. 
Even now, after 120 days, if I did 400mg of oxy I might nod for 5 minutes....then just feel OK the rest of the day.
It is very disturbing I have yet to meet a recovered addict.
If you are out there please email me.
G



--- On Tue, 12/30/08, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] suboxone
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 11:51 AM


          Seems like I memember a detox or two that you wrote about.
 
          Remember the prose about you being imersed in a tank of Ibogaine gas???
 
         Peace Love and Melange
                Randy 


On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:19 PM, tink <tinkerbell.sarah at gmail.com> wrote:

I've been on both methadone and suboxone, and had a horrible time
coming off of both. I have to say that the switch from methadone to
suboxone was probably one of the most intensely bad experiences I've
ever had.  I was on 140 mgs of methadone for years, and switched to 36
mgs of suboxone, which I was on for a little over a year.  I used
ibogaine to end the suboxone, weening myself down and switching over
to short acting opiates(oxicontin), which was also not a particularly
pleasant experience. As a person with a lot of back pain issues, the
suboxone was not the right medication for me, as it blocks pain
killers and provides little or no relief.  The methadone helped in
that area, but both substances are pure evil.  This is only my
experience, though, and I do have some friends that suboxone works for
rather well, and in more ways than one.  One friend says that it has
anti-depressant qualities that keep her level, motivated and able to
function on a level that methadone never allowed.  Another says that
the opiate block has made a huge difference in keeping him clean,
knowing that nothing will get him high.  The other side of that is in
Vermont, they've had a series of overdoses where the person continues
doing whatever opiate, never getting high, yet overdosing.
I'll add this: while both methadone and suboxone did do their
respective jobs by helping me get away from hardcore heroin addiction,
I found that the downside of both were too much for me, and am much
happier being on absolutely nothing.  Again, that's just me.  I know
that it does work for some, and I wouldn't discount anything that
might help make the transition to complete abstinence, which is what I
finally found is the only thing that actually works for me.  Then
again, that's only if abstinence is ultimately your goal. Used as
temporary tools, they helped me tremendously.  However, I wouldn't go
back to either one.
If you have any questions that you feel I might be able to answer,
please feel free to ask.
Hope this helped
tink
 

On 12/30/08, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Mike;
>
> The only way I would think of dealing with the situation would be to switch
> to a more common opiate which would be easier to get off. ??? Other than
> that you are looking at a hard road. Doctors huh? If they are not gving you
> too little they are giving you the wrong damn drug :)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 December, 2008 6:57:45
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] suboxone
>
>
> I'm just so angry with this shrink. The only question he asked me regarding
> my opiate history was how much I was currently using. For the first time in
> my life I answered him honestly. At the time of the question I was using
> between 1-2 grams daily. I had just got to this point and had only been
> using this much for the past 4 days or so. Mind you that I haven't been
> strung out since 4/04 on methadone. A 90 day jail stint got me off of that
> and I never looked back...at least not to opiates. Just recently I was
> combating some depression
> and decided to take a vike here a perk there and before you know it the
> story is told, which actually surprised me because I have use opiates for
> legit reasons in the past and never graduated back to shooting dope. Now
> this quack not knowing anything about me or my past pumps me up to 24 mgs of
> suboxone right off the rip. I have no one else to blame but myself.(Though
> he should have told me) If I had researched this drug the way I do
> everything else I would not be in this situation. I had know idea this quack
> was setting me up for maintenance. Being as naive as i was I thought I was
> going in there for a 1-2 week out patient detox. After googeling suboxone
> withdrawal, which I should have done in the first place I find out that this
> shit is no joke and that I'm temporarily FUCKED. So this is why I ask for
> any advise, suggestions, or personal experiences. Thanks and I hope everyone
> has wonderful, clean, joyous, happy, and free New Year.
>
> Mike
>
> --- On Mon, 12/29/08, junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail..com> wrote:
>
> From: junkboy <junkboy64 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] suboxone
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 1:32 PM
>
>
> in my opinion sub is super hard to get off of... its right up there with
> methadone..... nasty..... i think its a horrible drug, but thats my
> opinion... ive had other peopel tell me it helped them... so i couldnt
> rightly say..
> lee
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:32 AM, michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Simon,
> I just dont know anything about subjoin and I was hoping on some input on
> some peoples personal use with it and how hard it was to get off of it
> successfully without the use of ibogain. Maybe how severe the w/d symptoms
> were and how long they lasted.. That's the kind of impute I'm looking for
> so, any will be appreciated.
> Thanks, Mike
>
> --- On Sat, 12/27/08, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] suboxone
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Saturday, December 27, 2008, 11:08 AM
>
>
>
> Feedback on what Mike?
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com>
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Sent: Friday, 26 December, 2008 20:45:39
> Subject: [Ibogaine] suboxone
>
>
> After over 4 years of being off of heroin, I ended back on it for a short
> time. (45 days). Because of limited options I am now taking 24mgs of
> suboxone a day. Though I believe that I know more than the average bear
> about opiates, suboxone is one particular drug I am completely unfamiliar
> with. I'm sure that many from the list have used this avenue and I'm open to
> any and all feedback. Thanks!!!
> Mike
>
>
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