[Ibogaine] authority - more or less OT

Wiggle Puppy Productions info at wigglepuppy.com
Tue Jan 27 19:57:50 EST 2009


Criminals vs. Cops 
They are both adrenaline junkies. There are a lot of theory¹s that they do
have similar traits ­ but just took different paths due to fate or nurture.


On 1/27/09 1:31 PM, "junkboy" <junkboy64 at gmail.com> wrote:

> matt, i completely agree. p.k dick does rock, also this brings up something my
> shrink once told me, most cops have the same psychological make up as us
> criminals, but criminals are more honest with themselves... just an
> interesting tidbit i picked up several, well maybe more, years ago...
> lee
> 
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Authority isn't a problem in and of itself.  It's when the people that you
>> have authority over are no longer seen as real people that you have a
>> problem.  When they become just criminals or perps or dopers or whatever less
>> than human name you want to use.  That's just for the case we are talking
>> about here (cops and robbers), you can see the same thing in wars (there is
>> always a slang, usually racial term for the enemy) and prejudice of all
>> kinds, even in politics.  First give them a label and then give that label
>> all the worst meanings so you can dehumanize the people who you attach the
>> label too.  Listen to the way Rush Limbaugh uses the word "liberal"; he isn't
>> talking about human beings worthy of respect and compassion, he is talking
>> about animals lower than dogs.  It's often the same when you see labels like
>> "drug dealer" or "drug addict" in the media.  These are not human beings to
>> be related to, they are scum to be eradicated.  So when you have authority
>> over human beings but they are identified in your own perception as less than
>> human, you will have abuses.  It's helpful also if the public has the same
>> mis-perception as well and the media is instrumental in that regard.  Under
>> bush the label islamo-facist was invented but look at how little attention
>> was given to actually distinguishing this label from the term islamic.  I
>> think given enough time they could have done an even better job of
>> dehumanizing all muslims in the minds of the western public since it appears
>> that may well have been their intention.  That makes it much easier to go in
>> and slaughter them.  Anyway I am ranting now, and probably preaching to the
>> choir.  
>> 
>> I think the dynamic between parents and children is a good place to examine
>> authority.  If you think of the relationship between a parent who loves their
>> kid and the child themself,  you have authority being exerted with the best
>> interests of the subordinated person in mind. And if you look at the
>> development of human beings, it sometimes is definitely in the best interest
>> of the person to NOT get what they want.  Children who grow up without
>> boundaries are not well balanced and do not relate well with others.  But you
>> would never find a parent who really loved their child subjecting them to a 5
>> to 10 year timeout for example, which is essentially what the judicial system
>> does with drug users.  But then on the other end of the spectrum you have
>> parents who badly abuse their children to which I would say they either do
>> not love them and therefore do not have their best interests in mind or they
>> are so badly damaged themselves that they are incapable of exercising their
>> authority with that child's best interests in front.  I do not think that
>> authority itself is the issue, I think problems arise from the nature of the
>> people who exercise it, and that does not to my mind mean that all people are
>> incapable of exercising it responsibly.
>> 
>> I think the issue of cops taking bribes versus abusing power in terms of
>> physical abuse and such are different things.  Taking a bribe is a lack of
>> exercising authority over your own self, it is in effect giving in to
>> temptation.  Probably some cops believe that taking whatever they want
>> whenever they want it is ok based on a selfish (sociopathic) world view, but
>> I would guess that the majority of people who become cops are clear that
>> taking bribes is wrong and that that behavior lies on the "bad guy" side of
>> the line as opposed to the "good guy" side where they place themselves.  But
>> once having given in to that temptation their self view must change, and they
>> either have to rationalize it (self dishonesty) or accept that they are not
>> the good guy they thought they were (integrate it).  (A third option is to
>> ignore it and not face it but that is hard to do without getting high, but
>> then again money and power is a high for some people.)  So while I would call
>> taking bribes an abuse of authority it is not the same as a direct abuse of
>> those they have authority over.
>> 
>> So in conclusion and just to bring this back around to topic, P. K. Dick
>> rocks.
>> 
>> Matt
>> 
>> simon loxton wrote:
>>> Well I guess its a limited personal choice. I doubt there are very many
>>> people whose ideal career choice would be to be some thing like a prison
>>> warden. Then again I guess it would appeal to some.
>>> 
>>> The worst thing you can do is give one person authority over another
>>> especially if they are not used to having it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Jeremy Spence <jlspence at mac.com> <mailto:jlspence at mac.com>
>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 19:18:28
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 130
>>> 
>>> Most cops are asses holes!! Its the job, its turns them into animals!! I
>>> don't NOT! feel sorry for them!!!!!!!!!!!!  ONE BIT!!!!!!!!!  But, I will
>>> say, in their defense, that the shit, and crazy ass people they are paid
>>> very little to deal with every freak'en day, takes a toll on them!!!!  I
>>> believe after a while, I start to generalizes every issues, and very
>>> person!!! and yes, that especially means people who use, or have at one time
>>> used any type of drug THAT'S "ILLEGAL!!!!!" I has something stolen, and I
>>> called the cops, he acted nice to me, until he looks down at my right arm
>>> and saw my extremely old track mark scars. I have some pretty bad scars on
>>> my anticubical vein -not sure that spelled right as its been a while since
>>> my anatomy fuzzy( for people who don't know anatomy, its the vein that's a
>>> sure bet, the one they use to take blood 98% of the time, at the bend in the
>>> arm) Well mine are fucked up, as I tried to kill my self with all types of
>>> shit when I got hit with my bladder disease when my girl friend who I
>>> thought walk on water, left me when i got sick...... that and my father told
>>> me to hell to hell, and didn't give a rats ass that I was horrible sick and
>>> could not work, or nothing!! So I tried to kill of physical pain and mental
>>> pain via the needle, many, many needles!!! I used I lot of small gage
>>> needles(for those who don't know, the small the gage the bigger the needle,
>>> at least in the US)
>>> 
>>> I don't shoot anymore, but I got some scaring from all the dumb shit.
>>> Shoots shit you aren't even spose to be able to shoot. Stupid, but back then
>>> I was in a lot of physical and mental pain.
>>> 
>>> But getting back to what I was saying, as soon as that cop saw that, he was
>>> done with me!!!  I mean, that's just fucked!! He doesn't know I am don't
>>> live my life that way anymore!! Or what I did what I did!! No, he just going
>>> to place judgement on me!!!!
>>> 
>>> That's why I don't place judgement on NOBDOY!!! anymore!!!!! Not a sole!!!!!
>>> Or at least try very, very hard not to!!!! I think Gays of fucked up!! But I
>>> do not JUDGE THEM!!!!!  Yea, I think it kind of strange, but they might look
>>> at my life and think my life is damm strange too!!!!!  I mean I LOL at some
>>> of them, they get madd at me for doing so, but what they don't know, is I
>>> GOT NOTHING AGINST THEM!!!! NOTHING!!!!
>>> 
>>> I just wish the police would do their job, just as they would any other
>>> crime! But they don't!!!!!  This is where I have a problem and lose complete
>>> respect for them!!!!! this where my problem is with them!!!
>>> 
>>> Another problem is, that it go all the way to the top!!!! The people on top
>>> at the police, train them to not waste there time on anybody they suspect
>>> has ever done illegal drugs, or "might?" still do them from time to time!
>>> This is my problem with police!!! They treat you as if you are less than
>>> human!!!!!!!  And that's fucked up!!!!
>>> 
>>> That why, I not calling there asses for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>> NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>> NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!
>>> NOTHING!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!
>>> And if I ever got caught with "anything" I would tell them NOTHING, NOTHING!
>>> NOTHING, NOTHING!!, NOTHING!, NOTHING! NOTHING!! NOTHING! NOTHING!!
>>> NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!
>>> I PLEAD my 1st amendment right!!!! I am staying silent!!!
>>> And if they really wanted to know something down the road, I tell them, you
>>> get pretty much find what ever you want on the internet! and there not much
>>> the DEA can do about it! What, open every piece of mail?? coming and going,
>>> yea fucking right!!!  its not possible!! What stop people from growing there
>>> own enthrogens, yea right!!! it never going to happen!!
>>> 
>>> How in the world are they going eradicate all these so called(in their eyes)
>>> illegal plants???? And how, without fucking up the environment???? Oh, we
>>> got rid of coca, but now we got toxic ground where nothing will grow! That's
>>> just great!!!!  Oh, and we also eradicated banana's and all the fruits and
>>> veg. too!!! Gee what a great plan!!! that's just fucking great!!!!  Gee,
>>> don't just love those drug war scientist!!! yea and they always say, oh, "it
>>> won't hurt the environment!!!"  And then it fucking every thing alive up and
>>> fucking dies!!!!!!! and not just the plants, but animals too!!!! even
>>> humans!!!!  I don't trust any of those so called good scientist the DEA in
>>> bed with, or even the US Gov. for that matter!!! They always say, oh, no it
>>> won't harm any of the other plants!!! or animals!!! it's a new and improved
>>> eradication tech.!!!  it will just kill those "evil plants!!!" That these
>>> "war lords" grow!!!!!
>>> 
>>> GIVE ME A FUCKING
>>> BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The
>>> DEA soooo stupid they would not know a war lord if it hit them in the
>>> fucking face!!!!!
>>> 
>>> Coca, hemp, peyote, iboga, poppies,  and million's of other plants have been
>>> grown for 1000, and 1000, of years, maybe even million's of years!!!!! and
>>> were here way before we deiced to fucking shit up and try and help it
>>> out!!!! and they will always!!!!!!  That is until some stupid ass DEA
>>> scientist decides to fuck the environment with a stupid ass drug war
>>> experiment that I would bet everything I own will fuck up every living thing
>>> on the planet up because of it!!!!!!!!  There goes nature!!!!!
>>> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhha, we made a booboo, sorry your poor
>>> people growing your fruits and veg with your coca, you won't be able to eat
>>> now, ohhhhha, the animal died too, ohhhhha were so sorry, we didn't expect
>>> that!! We could worn the shit was "SAFE?"  Sorry your family life and
>>> everything you use to know is FUCKED!!! were so sorry, but we got to get
>>> ride of drugs and ANY COST!!!! Sorry it ruined your life's, I guess now us
>>> drug war junkies and your indigenous culture which we the DEA and USA have
>>> absolutely no respect for. I guess now we are both just miserable existence
>>> ohhhhhhhhha..................................... again guess we made a
>>> booboo????
>>> 
>>> And people wonder why we have global warming!!!!!!
>>> 
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