[Ibogaine] authority - more or less OT

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Tue Jan 27 17:43:08 EST 2009


I have not read your entire email but I think its simpler than pigeonholing people to disassociate your self from them in order to participate in inhumane acts. Put one person in charge of another and the other becomes less than. There have been two experiments playing the part of prisoner and the other warder and in both cases they had to stop because it got out of control.




________________________________
From: Nyc Labrets <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 21:21:04
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] authority - more or less OT

start here

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=alice+miller+for+your+own+good&btnG=Search

and get back 2 us.

.


On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

Authority isn't a problem in and of itself.  It's when the people that
you have authority over are no longer seen as real people that you have
a problem.  When they become just criminals or perps or dopers or
whatever less than human name you want to use.  That's just for the
case we are talking about here (cops and robbers), you can see the same
thing in wars (there is always a slang, usually racial term for the
enemy) and prejudice of all kinds, even in politics.  First give them a
label and then give that label all the worst meanings so you can
dehumanize the people who you attach the label too..  Listen to the way
Rush Limbaugh uses the word "liberal"; he isn't talking about human
beings worthy of respect and compassion, he is talking about animals
lower than dogs.  It's often the same when you see labels like "drug
dealer" or "drug addict" in the media.  These are not human beings to
be related to, they are scum to be eradicated.  So when you have
authority over human beings but they are identified in your own
perception as less than human, you will have abuses.  It's helpful also
if the public has the same mis-perception as well and the media is
instrumental in that regard.  Under bush the label islamo-facist was
invented but look at how little attention was given to actually
distinguishing this label from the term islamic.  I think given enough
time they could have done an even better job of dehumanizing all
muslims in the minds of the western public since it appears that may
well have been their intention.  That makes it much easier to go in and
slaughter them.  Anyway I am ranting now, and probably preaching to the
choir.  

I think the dynamic between parents and children is a good place to
examine authority.  If you think of the relationship between a parent
who loves their kid and the child themself,  you have authority being
exerted with the best interests of the subordinated person in mind. And
if you look at the development of human beings, it sometimes is
definitely in the best interest of the person to NOT get what they
want.  Children who grow up without boundaries are not well balanced
and do not relate well with others.  But you would never find a parent
who really loved their child subjecting them to a 5 to 10 year timeout
for example, which is essentially what the judicial system does with
drug users.  But then on the other end of the spectrum you have parents
who badly abuse their children to which I would say they either do not
love them and therefore do not have their best interests in mind or
they are so badly damaged themselves that they are incapable of
exercising their authority with that child's best interests in front. 
I do not think that authority itself is the issue, I think problems
arise from the nature of the people who exercise it, and that does not
to my mind mean that all people are incapable of exercising it
responsibly.

I think the issue of cops taking bribes versus abusing power in terms
of physical abuse and such are different things.  Taking a bribe is a
lack of exercising authority over your own self, it is in effect giving
in to temptation.  Probably some cops believe that taking whatever they
want whenever they want it is ok based on a selfish (sociopathic) world
view, but I would guess that the majority of people who become cops are
clear that taking bribes is wrong and that that behavior lies on the
"bad guy" side of the line as opposed to the "good guy" side where they
place themselves.  But once having given in to that temptation their
self view must change, and they either have to rationalize it (self
dishonesty) or accept that they are not the good guy they thought they
were (integrate it).  (A third option is to ignore it and not face it
but that is hard to do without getting high, but then again money and
power is a high for some people.)  So while I would call taking bribes
an abuse of authority it is not the same as a direct abuse of those
they have authority over.

So in conclusion and just to bring this back around to topic, P. K.
Dick rocks.

Matt

simon loxton wrote: 
Well I guess its a limited personal choice. I doubt there are
very many people whose ideal career choice would be to be some thing
like a prison warden. Then again I guess it would appeal to some..

The worst thing you can do is give one person authority over another
especially if they are not used to having it.




________________________________
From: Jeremy Spence <jlspence at mac.com>
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, 27
January, 2009 19:18:28
Subject: Re:
[Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 130

Most cops are asses holes!! Its the job, its turns them into animals!!
I don't NOT! feel sorry for them!!!!!!!!!!!!  ONE BIT!!!!!!!!!  But, I
will say, in their defense, that the shit, and crazy ass people they
are paid very little to deal with every freak'en day, takes a toll on
them!!!!  I believe after a while, I start to generalizes every issues,
and very person!!! and yes, that especially means people who use, or
have at one time used any type of drug THAT'S "ILLEGAL!!!!!" I has
something stolen, and I called the cops, he acted nice to me, until he
looks down at my right arm and saw my extremely old track mark scars. I
have some pretty bad scars on my anticubical vein -not sure that
spelled right as its been a while since my anatomy fuzzy( for people
who don't know anatomy, its the vein that's a sure bet, the one they
use to take blood 98% of the time, at the bend in the arm) Well mine
are fucked up, as I tried to kill my self with all types of shit when I
got hit with my bladder disease when my girl friend who I thought walk
on water, left me when i got sick...... that and my father told me to
hell to hell, and didn't give a rats ass that I was horrible sick and
could not work, or nothing!! So I tried to kill of physical pain and
mental pain via the needle, many, many needles!!! I used I lot of small
gage needles(for those who don't know, the small the gage the bigger
the needle, at least in the US)

I don't shoot anymore, but I got some scaring from all the dumb shit. 
Shoots shit you aren't even spose to be able to shoot. Stupid, but back
then I was in a lot of physical and mental pain.

But getting back to what I was saying, as soon as that cop saw that, he
was done with me!!!  I mean, that's just fucked!! He doesn't know I am
don't live my life that way anymore!! Or what I did what I did!! No, he
just going to place judgement on me!!!!

That's why I don't place judgement on NOBDOY!!! anymore!!!!! Not a
sole!!!!!  Or at least try very, very hard not to!!!! I think Gays of
fucked up!! But I do not JUDGE THEM!!!!!  Yea, I think it kind of
strange, but they might look at my life and think my life is damm
strange too!!!!!  I mean I LOL at some of them, they get madd at me for
doing so, but what they don't know, is I GOT NOTHING AGINST THEM!!!!
NOTHING!!!!

I just wish the police would do their job, just as they would any other
crime! But they don't!!!!!  This is where I have a problem and lose
complete respect for them!!!!! this where my problem is with them!!!

Another problem is, that it go all the way to the top!!!! The people on
top at the police, train them to not waste there time on anybody they
suspect has ever done illegal drugs, or "might?" still do them from
time to time! This is my problem with police!!! They treat you as if
you are less than human!!!!!!!  And that's fucked up!!!!

That why, I not calling there asses for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!
NOTHING!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!
And if I ever got caught with "anything" I would tell them NOTHING,
NOTHING! NOTHING, NOTHING!!, NOTHING!, NOTHING! NOTHING!! NOTHING!
NOTHING!! NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!
I PLEAD my 1st amendment right!!!! I am staying silent!!!
And if they really wanted to know something down the road, I tell them,
you get pretty much find what ever you want on the internet! and there
not much the DEA can do about it! What, open every piece of mail??
coming and going, yea fucking right!!!  its not possible!! What stop
people from growing there own enthrogens, yea right!!! it never going
to happen!!

How in the world are they going eradicate all these so called(in their
eyes) illegal plants???? And how, without fucking up the
environment???? Oh, we got rid of coca, but now we got toxic ground
where nothing will grow! That's just great!!!!  Oh, and we also
eradicated banana's and all the fruits and veg. too!!! Gee what a great
plan!!! that's just fucking great!!!!  Gee, don't just love those drug
war scientist!!! yea and they always say, oh, "it won't hurt the
environment!!!"  And then it fucking every thing alive up and fucking
dies!!!!!!! and not just the plants, but animals too!!!! even
humans!!!!  I don't trust any of those so called good scientist the DEA
in bed with, or even the US Gov. for that matter!!! They always say,
oh, no it won't harm any of the other plants!!! or animals!!! it's a
new and improved eradication tech.!!!  it will just kill those "evil
plants!!!" That these "war lords" grow!!!!!

GIVE ME A FUCKING
BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
The DEA soooo stupid they would not know a war lord if it hit them in
the fucking face!!!!!

Coca, hemp, peyote, iboga, poppies,  and million's of other plants have
been grown for 1000, and 1000, of years, maybe even million's of
years!!!!! and were here way before we deiced to fucking shit up and
try and help it out!!!! and they will always!!!!!!  That is until some
stupid ass DEA scientist decides to fuck the environment with a stupid
ass drug war experiment that I would bet everything I own will fuck up
every living thing on the planet up because of it!!!!!!!!  There goes
nature!!!!! ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhha, we made a booboo,
sorry your poor people growing your fruits and veg with your coca, you
won't be able to eat now, ohhhhha, the animal died too, ohhhhha were so
sorry, we didn't expect that!! We could worn the shit was "SAFE?" 
Sorry your family life and everything you use to know is FUCKED!!! were
so sorry, but we got to get ride of drugs and ANY COST!!!! Sorry it
ruined your life's, I guess now us drug war junkies and your indigenous
culture which we the DEA and USA have absolutely no respect for. I
guess now we are both just miserable existence
ohhhhhhhhha..................................... again guess we made a
booboo????

And people wonder why we have global warming!!!!!!

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-- 
Nyc Labrets

A Pen Warmed In Hell
http://www.aPenWarmedInHell.blogspot.com/

Rome With Television
http://RomeWithTelevision..blogspot.com/

"Now, 75 years later in an abundant society where people have laptops, cell phones, iPods, and minds like empty rooms, I still plod along with books." Harper Lee, 2006



      
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