[Ibogaine] authority - more or less OT

junkboy junkboy64 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 27 14:31:09 EST 2009

matt, i completely agree. p.k dick does rock, also this brings up something
my shrink once told me, most cops have the same psychological make up as us
criminals, but criminals are more honest with themselves... just an
interesting tidbit i picked up several, well maybe more, years ago...

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

> Authority isn't a problem in and of itself.  It's when the people that you
> have authority over are no longer seen as real people that you have a
> problem.  When they become just criminals or perps or dopers or whatever
> less than human name you want to use.  That's just for the case we are
> talking about here (cops and robbers), you can see the same thing in wars
> (there is always a slang, usually racial term for the enemy) and prejudice
> of all kinds, even in politics.  First give them a label and then give that
> label all the worst meanings so you can dehumanize the people who you attach
> the label too.  Listen to the way Rush Limbaugh uses the word "liberal"; he
> isn't talking about human beings worthy of respect and compassion, he is
> talking about animals lower than dogs.  It's often the same when you see
> labels like "drug dealer" or "drug addict" in the media.  These are not
> human beings to be related to, they are scum to be eradicated.  So when you
> have authority over human beings but they are identified in your own
> perception as less than human, you will have abuses.  It's helpful also if
> the public has the same mis-perception as well and the media is instrumental
> in that regard.  Under bush the label islamo-facist was invented but look at
> how little attention was given to actually distinguishing this label from
> the term islamic.  I think given enough time they could have done an even
> better job of dehumanizing all muslims in the minds of the western public
> since it appears that may well have been their intention.  That makes it
> much easier to go in and slaughter them.  Anyway I am ranting now, and
> probably preaching to the choir.
> I think the dynamic between parents and children is a good place to examine
> authority.  If you think of the relationship between a parent who loves
> their kid and the child themself,  you have authority being exerted with the
> best interests of the subordinated person in mind. And if you look at the
> development of human beings, it sometimes is definitely in the best interest
> of the person to NOT get what they want.  Children who grow up without
> boundaries are not well balanced and do not relate well with others.  But
> you would never find a parent who really loved their child subjecting them
> to a 5 to 10 year timeout for example, which is essentially what the
> judicial system does with drug users.  But then on the other end of the
> spectrum you have parents who badly abuse their children to which I would
> say they either do not love them and therefore do not have their best
> interests in mind or they are so badly damaged themselves that they are
> incapable of exercising their authority with that child's best interests in
> front.  I do not think that authority itself is the issue, I think problems
> arise from the nature of the people who exercise it, and that does not to my
> mind mean that all people are incapable of exercising it responsibly.
> I think the issue of cops taking bribes versus abusing power in terms of
> physical abuse and such are different things.  Taking a bribe is a lack of
> exercising authority over your own self, it is in effect giving in to
> temptation.  Probably some cops believe that taking whatever they want
> whenever they want it is ok based on a selfish (sociopathic) world view, but
> I would guess that the majority of people who become cops are clear that
> taking bribes is wrong and that that behavior lies on the "bad guy" side of
> the line as opposed to the "good guy" side where they place themselves.  But
> once having given in to that temptation their self view must change, and
> they either have to rationalize it (self dishonesty) or accept that they are
> not the good guy they thought they were (integrate it).  (A third option is
> to ignore it and not face it but that is hard to do without getting high,
> but then again money and power is a high for some people.)  So while I would
> call taking bribes an abuse of authority it is not the same as a direct
> abuse of those they have authority over.
> So in conclusion and just to bring this back around to topic, P. K. Dick
> rocks.
> Matt
> simon loxton wrote:
>  Well I guess its a limited personal choice. I doubt there are very many
> people whose ideal career choice would be to be some thing like a prison
> warden. Then again I guess it would appeal to some.
> The worst thing you can do is give one person authority over another
> especially if they are not used to having it.
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Jeremy Spence <jlspence at mac.com> <jlspence at mac.com>
> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 19:18:28
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 130
> Most cops are asses holes!! Its the job, its turns them into animals!! I
> don't NOT! feel sorry for them!!!!!!!!!!!!  ONE BIT!!!!!!!!!  But, I will
> say, in their defense, that the shit, and crazy ass people they are paid
> very little to deal with every freak'en day, takes a toll on them!!!!  I
> believe after a while, I start to generalizes every issues, and very
> person!!! and yes, that especially means people who use, or have at one time
> used any type of drug THAT'S "ILLEGAL!!!!!" I has something stolen, and I
> called the cops, he acted nice to me, until he looks down at my right arm
> and saw my extremely old track mark scars. I have some pretty bad scars on
> my anticubical vein -not sure that spelled right as its been a while since
> my anatomy fuzzy( for people who don't know anatomy, its the vein that's a
> sure bet, the one they use to take blood 98% of the time, at the bend in the
> arm) Well mine are fucked up, as I tried to kill my self with all types of
> shit when I got hit with my bladder disease when my girl friend who I
> thought walk on water, left me when i got sick...... that and my father told
> me to hell to hell, and didn't give a rats ass that I was horrible sick and
> could not work, or nothing!! So I tried to kill of physical pain and mental
> pain via the needle, many, many needles!!! I used I lot of small gage
> needles(for those who don't know, the small the gage the bigger the needle,
> at least in the US)
> I don't shoot anymore, but I got some scaring from all the dumb shit.
> Shoots shit you aren't even spose to be able to shoot. Stupid, but back then
> I was in a lot of physical and mental pain.
> But getting back to what I was saying, as soon as that cop saw that, he was
> done with me!!!  I mean, that's just fucked!! He doesn't know I am don't
> live my life that way anymore!! Or what I did what I did!! No, he just going
> to place judgement on me!!!!
> That's why I don't place judgement on NOBDOY!!! anymore!!!!! Not a
> sole!!!!!  Or at least try very, very hard not to!!!! I think Gays of fucked
> up!! But I do not JUDGE THEM!!!!!  Yea, I think it kind of strange, but they
> might look at my life and think my life is damm strange too!!!!!  I mean I
> LOL at some of them, they get madd at me for doing so, but what they don't
> I just wish the police would do their job, just as they would any other
> crime! But they don't!!!!!  This is where I have a problem and lose complete
> respect for them!!!!! this where my problem is with them!!!
> Another problem is, that it go all the way to the top!!!! The people on top
> at the police, train them to not waste there time on anybody they suspect
> has ever done illegal drugs, or "might?" still do them from time to time!
> This is my problem with police!!! They treat you as if you are less than
> human!!!!!!!  And that's fucked up!!!!
> That why, I not calling there asses for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!
> NOTHING!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!
> And if I ever got caught with "anything" I would tell them NOTHING,
> I PLEAD my 1st amendment right!!!! I am staying silent!!!
> And if they really wanted to know something down the road, I tell them, you
> get pretty much find what ever you want on the internet! and there not much
> the DEA can do about it! What, open every piece of mail?? coming and going,
> yea fucking right!!!  its not possible!! What stop people from growing there
> own enthrogens, yea right!!! it never going to happen!!
> How in the world are they going eradicate all these so called(in their
> eyes) illegal plants???? And how, without fucking up the environment???? Oh,
> we got rid of coca, but now we got toxic ground where nothing will grow!
> That's just great!!!!  Oh, and we also eradicated banana's and all the
> fruits and veg. too!!! Gee what a great plan!!! that's just fucking
> great!!!!  Gee, don't just love those drug war scientist!!! yea and they
> always say, oh, "it won't hurt the environment!!!"  And then it fucking
> every thing alive up and fucking dies!!!!!!! and not just the plants, but
> animals too!!!! even humans!!!!  I don't trust any of those so called good
> scientist the DEA in bed with, or even the US Gov. for that matter!!! They
> always say, oh, no it won't harm any of the other plants!!! or animals!!!
> it's a new and improved eradication tech.!!!  it will just kill those "evil
> plants!!!" That these "war lords" grow!!!!!
> BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> The DEA soooo stupid they would not know a war lord if it hit them in the
> fucking face!!!!!
> Coca, hemp, peyote, iboga, poppies,  and million's of other plants have
> been grown for 1000, and 1000, of years, maybe even million's of years!!!!!
> and were here way before we deiced to fucking shit up and try and help it
> out!!!! and they will always!!!!!!  That is until some stupid ass DEA
> scientist decides to fuck the environment with a stupid ass drug war
> experiment that I would bet everything I own will fuck up every living thing
> on the planet up because of it!!!!!!!!  There goes nature!!!!!
> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhha, we made a booboo, sorry your poor
> people growing your fruits and veg with your coca, you won't be able to eat
> now, ohhhhha, the animal died too, ohhhhha were so sorry, we didn't expect
> that!! We could worn the shit was "SAFE?"  Sorry your family life and
> everything you use to know is FUCKED!!! were so sorry, but we got to get
> ride of drugs and ANY COST!!!! Sorry it ruined your life's, I guess now us
> drug war junkies and your indigenous culture which we the DEA and USA have
> absolutely no respect for. I guess now we are both just miserable existence
> ohhhhhhhhha..................................... again guess we made a
> booboo????
> And people wonder why we have global warming!!!!!!
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