[Ibogaine] authority - more or less OT

Nyc Labrets digitalcomponents at gmail.com
Tue Jan 27 14:21:04 EST 2009


start here

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=alice+miller+for+your+own+good&btnG=Search

and get back 2 us.

.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Authority isn't a problem in and of itself.  It's when the people that you
> have authority over are no longer seen as real people that you have a
> problem.  When they become just criminals or perps or dopers or whatever
> less than human name you want to use.  That's just for the case we are
> talking about here (cops and robbers), you can see the same thing in wars
> (there is always a slang, usually racial term for the enemy) and prejudice
> of all kinds, even in politics.  First give them a label and then give that
> label all the worst meanings so you can dehumanize the people who you attach
> the label too.  Listen to the way Rush Limbaugh uses the word "liberal"; he
> isn't talking about human beings worthy of respect and compassion, he is
> talking about animals lower than dogs.  It's often the same when you see
> labels like "drug dealer" or "drug addict" in the media.  These are not
> human beings to be related to, they are scum to be eradicated.  So when you
> have authority over human beings but they are identified in your own
> perception as less than human, you will have abuses.  It's helpful also if
> the public has the same mis-perception as well and the media is instrumental
> in that regard.  Under bush the label islamo-facist was invented but look at
> how little attention was given to actually distinguishing this label from
> the term islamic.  I think given enough time they could have done an even
> better job of dehumanizing all muslims in the minds of the western public
> since it appears that may well have been their intention.  That makes it
> much easier to go in and slaughter them.  Anyway I am ranting now, and
> probably preaching to the choir.
>
> I think the dynamic between parents and children is a good place to examine
> authority.  If you think of the relationship between a parent who loves
> their kid and the child themself,  you have authority being exerted with the
> best interests of the subordinated person in mind. And if you look at the
> development of human beings, it sometimes is definitely in the best interest
> of the person to NOT get what they want.  Children who grow up without
> boundaries are not well balanced and do not relate well with others.  But
> you would never find a parent who really loved their child subjecting them
> to a 5 to 10 year timeout for example, which is essentially what the
> judicial system does with drug users.  But then on the other end of the
> spectrum you have parents who badly abuse their children to which I would
> say they either do not love them and therefore do not have their best
> interests in mind or they are so badly damaged themselves that they are
> incapable of exercising their authority with that child's best interests in
> front.  I do not think that authority itself is the issue, I think problems
> arise from the nature of the people who exercise it, and that does not to my
> mind mean that all people are incapable of exercising it responsibly.
>
> I think the issue of cops taking bribes versus abusing power in terms of
> physical abuse and such are different things.  Taking a bribe is a lack of
> exercising authority over your own self, it is in effect giving in to
> temptation.  Probably some cops believe that taking whatever they want
> whenever they want it is ok based on a selfish (sociopathic) world view, but
> I would guess that the majority of people who become cops are clear that
> taking bribes is wrong and that that behavior lies on the "bad guy" side of
> the line as opposed to the "good guy" side where they place themselves.  But
> once having given in to that temptation their self view must change, and
> they either have to rationalize it (self dishonesty) or accept that they are
> not the good guy they thought they were (integrate it).  (A third option is
> to ignore it and not face it but that is hard to do without getting high,
> but then again money and power is a high for some people.)  So while I would
> call taking bribes an abuse of authority it is not the same as a direct
> abuse of those they have authority over.
>
> So in conclusion and just to bring this back around to topic, P. K. Dick
> rocks.
>
> Matt
>
> simon loxton wrote:
>
>  Well I guess its a limited personal choice. I doubt there are very many
> people whose ideal career choice would be to be some thing like a prison
> warden. Then again I guess it would appeal to some.
>
> The worst thing you can do is give one person authority over another
> especially if they are not used to having it.
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Jeremy Spence <jlspence at mac.com> <jlspence at mac.com>
> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 19:18:28
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 130
>
> Most cops are asses holes!! Its the job, its turns them into animals!! I
> don't NOT! feel sorry for them!!!!!!!!!!!!  ONE BIT!!!!!!!!!  But, I will
> say, in their defense, that the shit, and crazy ass people they are paid
> very little to deal with every freak'en day, takes a toll on them!!!!  I
> believe after a while, I start to generalizes every issues, and very
> person!!! and yes, that especially means people who use, or have at one time
> used any type of drug THAT'S "ILLEGAL!!!!!" I has something stolen, and I
> called the cops, he acted nice to me, until he looks down at my right arm
> and saw my extremely old track mark scars. I have some pretty bad scars on
> my anticubical vein -not sure that spelled right as its been a while since
> my anatomy fuzzy( for people who don't know anatomy, its the vein that's a
> sure bet, the one they use to take blood 98% of the time, at the bend in the
> arm) Well mine are fucked up, as I tried to kill my self with all types of
> shit when I got hit with my bladder disease when my girl friend who I
> thought walk on water, left me when i got sick...... that and my father told
> me to hell to hell, and didn't give a rats ass that I was horrible sick and
> could not work, or nothing!! So I tried to kill of physical pain and mental
> pain via the needle, many, many needles!!! I used I lot of small gage
> needles(for those who don't know, the small the gage the bigger the needle,
> at least in the US)
>
> I don't shoot anymore, but I got some scaring from all the dumb shit.
> Shoots shit you aren't even spose to be able to shoot. Stupid, but back then
> I was in a lot of physical and mental pain.
>
> But getting back to what I was saying, as soon as that cop saw that, he was
> done with me!!!  I mean, that's just fucked!! He doesn't know I am don't
> live my life that way anymore!! Or what I did what I did!! No, he just going
> to place judgement on me!!!!
>
> That's why I don't place judgement on NOBDOY!!! anymore!!!!! Not a
> sole!!!!!  Or at least try very, very hard not to!!!! I think Gays of fucked
> up!! But I do not JUDGE THEM!!!!!  Yea, I think it kind of strange, but they
> might look at my life and think my life is damm strange too!!!!!  I mean I
> LOL at some of them, they get madd at me for doing so, but what they don't
> know, is I GOT NOTHING AGINST THEM!!!! NOTHING!!!!
>
> I just wish the police would do their job, just as they would any other
> crime! But they don't!!!!!  This is where I have a problem and lose complete
> respect for them!!!!! this where my problem is with them!!!
>
> Another problem is, that it go all the way to the top!!!! The people on top
> at the police, train them to not waste there time on anybody they suspect
> has ever done illegal drugs, or "might?" still do them from time to time!
> This is my problem with police!!! They treat you as if you are less than
> human!!!!!!!  And that's fucked up!!!!
>
> That why, I not calling there asses for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!
> NOTHING!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!
> And if I ever got caught with "anything" I would tell them NOTHING,
> NOTHING! NOTHING, NOTHING!!, NOTHING!, NOTHING! NOTHING!! NOTHING! NOTHING!!
> NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!
> I PLEAD my 1st amendment right!!!! I am staying silent!!!
> And if they really wanted to know something down the road, I tell them, you
> get pretty much find what ever you want on the internet! and there not much
> the DEA can do about it! What, open every piece of mail?? coming and going,
> yea fucking right!!!  its not possible!! What stop people from growing there
> own enthrogens, yea right!!! it never going to happen!!
>
> How in the world are they going eradicate all these so called(in their
> eyes) illegal plants???? And how, without fucking up the environment???? Oh,
> we got rid of coca, but now we got toxic ground where nothing will grow!
> That's just great!!!!  Oh, and we also eradicated banana's and all the
> fruits and veg. too!!! Gee what a great plan!!! that's just fucking
> great!!!!  Gee, don't just love those drug war scientist!!! yea and they
> always say, oh, "it won't hurt the environment!!!"  And then it fucking
> every thing alive up and fucking dies!!!!!!! and not just the plants, but
> animals too!!!! even humans!!!!  I don't trust any of those so called good
> scientist the DEA in bed with, or even the US Gov. for that matter!!! They
> always say, oh, no it won't harm any of the other plants!!! or animals!!!
> it's a new and improved eradication tech.!!!  it will just kill those "evil
> plants!!!" That these "war lords" grow!!!!!
>
> GIVE ME A FUCKING
> BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> The DEA soooo stupid they would not know a war lord if it hit them in the
> fucking face!!!!!
>
> Coca, hemp, peyote, iboga, poppies,  and million's of other plants have
> been grown for 1000, and 1000, of years, maybe even million's of years!!!!!
> and were here way before we deiced to fucking shit up and try and help it
> out!!!! and they will always!!!!!!  That is until some stupid ass DEA
> scientist decides to fuck the environment with a stupid ass drug war
> experiment that I would bet everything I own will fuck up every living thing
> on the planet up because of it!!!!!!!!  There goes nature!!!!!
> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhha, we made a booboo, sorry your poor
> people growing your fruits and veg with your coca, you won't be able to eat
> now, ohhhhha, the animal died too, ohhhhha were so sorry, we didn't expect
> that!! We could worn the shit was "SAFE?"  Sorry your family life and
> everything you use to know is FUCKED!!! were so sorry, but we got to get
> ride of drugs and ANY COST!!!! Sorry it ruined your life's, I guess now us
> drug war junkies and your indigenous culture which we the DEA and USA have
> absolutely no respect for. I guess now we are both just miserable existence
> ohhhhhhhhha..................................... again guess we made a
> booboo????
>
> And people wonder why we have global warming!!!!!!
>
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-- 
Nyc Labrets

A Pen Warmed In Hell
http://www.aPenWarmedInHell.blogspot.com/

Rome With Television
http://RomeWithTelevision.blogspot.com/

"Now, 75 years later in an abundant society where people have laptops, cell
phones, iPods, and minds like empty rooms, I still plod along with books."
Harper Lee, 2006
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