[Ibogaine] newbie intro + mixing Ibo and Kratom question

robert charleston robster1971 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 24 23:50:48 EST 2009


What is Kratom or should I know if never heard or used? thanks,R C

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi George
>
> The protocol for the list is basically post whatever you want with the
> understanding that if it isn't vaguely ibogaine or Philip K Dick related
> some people might get a little irritated.  Most won't, or at least most
> won't say anything.  And life will go on.
>
> I doubt you will find very much experience with a long, slow ibogaine detox
> here.  In fact I am less than convinced of the feasibility of such a thing
> myself.  Although it is dangerous, I have heard of using low dose ibogaine
> to taper an opiate dependence by taking the two concurrently.  The idea
> being that the low dose of ibogaine will lower your tolerance enough to
> reduce opiate intake over time.  The dangerous part being that if you take
> ibogaine concurrently with opiates you may well lower your tolerance enough
> to make the opiate dose fatal.
>
> If you are able to reduce the opiate dose sufficiently, either through this
> method or just normal tapering, then the flood dose needed to do a more
> traditional ibogaine detox need not be so large.
>
> I have never messed with kratom and based on what I have read about it I
> would never risk touching it now.  It totally sounds like it would be
> addictive for me and I have no interest in becoming addicted to anything
> again.  But others here might be able to shed some light on the relationship
> between kratom and ibogaine.
>
> I am curious though, is this description "On a full detox, I need A+E/ER
> care within hours of starting. Extremely laboured breathing, heart pain and
> palpitations, postural hypotension so bad I faint with uncontrollable spasms
> on the way down to the floor, think.....bad imitation of Elvis shaky legs
> dance!" something that actually happened when you took ibogaine?  I am not
> sure I understand what you were saying.  If you are saying this is something
> that happened when you took ibogaine in the past then if I were you I would
> be sure to get a total checkup before even touching a small dose again.
> Some of these symptoms sound like they could be the presyncope (or syncope
> if you actually lost consciousness) that is a sign of prolonged QT syndrome
> which really only has one other symptom which is sudden death.  If you do
> have prolonged QT you probably really shouldn't consider ibogaine an option
> for you at all.
>
> Matt
>
> george wrote:
>
>     Hello I'm a first time poster.
>
> Great to be among other Ibo 'devotees' (hm...does it show that I've been
> fed by the Hare Krishna food van for years?!! Lol!).
>
> No idea what the newbie protocol is. So will just ask my urgent question
> and leave posting my 'addiction c.v.' (!) until requested.
>
> In a nutshell:
>
> Q 1: How long should you wait between ceasing daily Kratom use, and
> starting Ibogaine (small daily doses)?
>
> I read that you should never mix them. Something to do with MAO Inhibitors?
> Too tired and drugged up to comprehend this stuff. (Pre opiates I could do
> Physics A Level no problem. Now I can barely understand the mechanism of
> MAOI, argh!).
>
> Why do I ask this?
> Was using Kratom to ease w/d, but have will run out of it in next 2 days
> (due to my latest delivery of Kratom going missing in post)
> I have some Ibo left, and have used it before to slowly reduce, though with
> limited long term sucess. Every time I stopped for a break, the w/d returned
> as bad as ever. And they went on, and on, and Aris-ton (that's a ref to an
> old ad on UK t.v).
> After over 2mo of this Ibo experience/experiment, I had to concede defeat
> and after a week off Ibo, I got onto Kratom.
> Now, for reasons too long and boring to explain here, I cannot afford a
> week's break between stopping one and starting the other. Also, this time
> I'm switching in reverse, and this, I imagine, may be a very different
> kettle of fish.
>
> I actually would prefer to just do Ibo, to get off the Meth and be clean,
> once and for all.
> But I'm def. too ill  to do the full, flood Ibo treatment
> (14yr bad case of M.E. On a full detox, I need A+E/ER care within hours of
> starting. Extremely laboured breathing, heart pain and palpitations,
> postural hypotension so bad I faint with uncontrollable spasms on the way
> down to the floor, think.....bad imitation of Elvis shaky legs dance! Also
> borderline psychosis, which I've never had otherwise, except once, a year
> ago when I stupidly binged on Crack + Smack after neighbours decided I
> needed to be killed off......... simply for being gay, duh!).
>
> And I can't seem to get the slow, Ibo assisted detox to work. Not when I'm
> coming off Methadone anyway (35mg quitting dose).
>
> Which brings me to....
> Q2:
> Any ideas what's been going wrong with my slow Ibo detox? Would be great to
> resolve issue. I'd rather get the slow Ibo detox to work and get clean
> sooner, rather than stringing things out on Kratom, then switching to Ibo.
>
> Hope this was explained well enough to help people answer. Thanks for
> reading :D
>
> Spiritual_Pilot
>
> P.S. About me personally.........I like bed Yoga (for lazy boys who like
> snuggling up), growing my own herbs, medicinal oral cannabis, tripping  with
> friends in Amsterdam parks on Dutch bikes (Wooohooo!), trying to knit
> wearable socks (still trying), Wallace + Gromit, squatting, squat culture,
> and practicing random acts of kindness, just to see the look on recipients
> faces.
> Oh and I want to be a hospice worker, a unicyclist who juggles fire, sacred
> clown, visit where my Ibo came from and give something back, become an
> acupuncturist, and also a children's play therapist for kids who were abused
> badly. Last of all, when I'm deep in daydreams, I fancy myself as a queer
> shaolin monk, yunno, the ones who do way cool martial arts.
> Think the acupuncturist is most likely, lol. (cos I did manage to self
> acupuncture my way out of a wheelchair, after cops bust me into one cos I
> shouted fuck Tony Blair on Mayday 2001. Ohhhhh, pardon meeeeee officer!!!).
> 'nuff said! Peace and oral cannabis to all who desire them! ;D
>
>
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