[Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 86

Charles Rossouw charles.rossouw at gmail.com
Mon Jan 19 20:10:47 EST 2009


Ibogaine slow the heart rate down, not speed it up.  What happens with
Torsades, is that it slows too much, then the heart misses a beat or two,
then goes into spasms, which is the life threatening bit if it can't get out
of the spasm part.  This causes the person to black out, because the blood
isn't pumped effectively to the brain anymore, which leads to a lack of
oxygen.  It is called ventricular tachycardia and what happens, is that the
ventricals just keep on contracting without getting blood from the atria.

Amphetamines or anything that speeds up the heart rate is definitely a
really really bad idea.

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Jeremy Spence <jlspence at mac.com> wrote:

> I like to take a little bit of xanax to smooth things out, during taking
> Iboga root.   It seem to ease the speedy effects.  I don't care for the
> initial taking of the root. I don't care for the increased heart rate.  I
> would think it would be a extremely bad idea to take anything amphetamine
> during any time during the course of treatment!
>
> Bezo's seem to put me at ease with the taking of iboga. I really would not
> want to not want to take iboga, without having something to help slow down
> my heart rate on hand, just in case, my heart rate get too high.
>
> I hate amphetamines, however I do like them when they are needed though,
> for I have ADD, but I rarely if ever take my medication for the reason of
> feeling speeded out which I really don't care for!!  I really don't care for
> that speedy feeling, but it help does me focus when I am coming down off my
> methadone, because I start having no energy at all!! I hate that part of the
> withdraw!!! Well, I hate every part of the stupid ass opiates withdraw!!
>  The like 5 or so stages of opiates withdraw!! I pretty much hate them
> all!!!
>
> It the worst!!  There is nothing like it!!! Nothing!! not coke, not speed
> withdraws, not benzo's withdraw!! NOTHING COME CLOSE TO OPIATES WITHDRAW!!
> NOTHING!!!  And I been on everything there is to be on!!! And methadone is
> opiates withdraw x 10000000000!!!!!!
>
> I have withdraw from it so many times, just to end up in pain again!! It
> sucks!!! But it's better than being in pain 24/7
>
> On Jan 19, 2009, at 5:39 PM, ibogaine-request at mindvox.com wrote:
>
> Send Ibogaine mailing list submissions to
>>        ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>        http://www.mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Ibogaine digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>  1. Re: Ibogain vs Iboga and safety, FDA trials (Charles Rossouw)
>>  2. Re: Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 85 (Jeremy Spence)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:20:38 +0200
>> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogain vs Iboga and safety, FDA trials
>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <5966395b0901191520l12d61308me928b57356eeb60d at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> My reasoning makes it the opposite:  More unknowns makes it more risky.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:29 PM, DC from AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> having said all that, isnt bwiti iboga use much safer than ibogaine
>>> reference the cardiac data, and so therefore would be eligible for FDA
>>> trials ?
>>> the article mentions bwiti initiation usage, but does not differentiate
>>> that one is root bark, the other is a high potency powder.
>>> maybe iboga contains more alcoloids that provide a better effect and less
>>> risk
>>> ibogaine safety issues may box one into a corner, and should be very
>>> careful of course. BUT
>>> the usefullness of iboga in general has not been refuted. iboga being the
>>> root bark or extract from same
>>> we need more safety data from the bwiti per dosages etc
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Donzo
>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vector Vector" <
>>> vector620022002 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 6:59 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine in the Netherlands
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah that's Sara's house?
>>>>
>>>> Much more in depth version of the same thing
>>>>
>>>> http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/360/3/308
>>>>
>>>> New England Journal of Medicine
>>>>
>>>> Volume 360:308-309        January 15, 2009        Number 3
>>>> Next
>>>> Long-QT Syndrome Induced by the Antiaddiction Drug Ibogaine
>>>>
>>>>  PubMed Citation
>>>>
>>>> To the Editor: Anecdotal evidence suggests that ibogaine alleviates drug
>>>> craving and relapse of drug use in humans, as has been confirmed for
>>>> animals.1 Ibogaine is currently used as an antiaddiction drug in
>>>> alternative
>>>> medicine. In 1993, the Food and Drug Administration approved a clinical
>>>> trial in humans to study those effects. The National Institute on Drug
>>>> Abuse
>>>> decided not to fund this study because of safety issues.2,3
>>>>
>>>> Ibogaine is a naturally occurring alkaloid with hallucinogenic and
>>>> psychedelic effects, derived from the bark of the root of the West
>>>> African
>>>> Tabernanthe iboga plant and is used in Gabonian initiation ceremonies.
>>>> At
>>>> least 11 sudden deaths were described after ibogaine use, in which the
>>>> cause
>>>> of death remained unclear even after autopsy.4 It was hypothesized that
>>>> ibogaine might dysregulate the autonomic nervous system, causing sudden
>>>> death.5
>>>>
>>>> A 31-year-old American woman was admitted to our emergency department
>>>> because of a seizure-like attack after she had taken a single dose of
>>>> 3.5 g
>>>> of ibogaine 15% (usual dose, 2 to 6 g). She had not taken any other
>>>> drugs or
>>>> alcohol concurrently with the ibogaine. Her medical history was
>>>> unremarkable, and there was no family history of cardiac-rhythm
>>>> abnormalities. Besides nausea, she had no specific symptoms to report.
>>>> She
>>>> had come to the Netherlands to receive ibogaine as an alternative
>>>> medicine
>>>> for treatment-resistant alcohol addiction.
>>>>
>>>> Electrocardiography showed a severe prolonged QT interval of 548 msec
>>>> (QT
>>>> interval corrected for the heart rate, 616 msec) and ventricular
>>>> tachyarrhythmias during prolonged monitoring (Figure 1). Laboratory
>>>> findings
>>>> revealed mild hypomagnesemia (magnesium level, 0.49 mmol per liter [1.2
>>>> mg
>>>> per deciliter]; reference range, 0.70 to 1.00 [1.7 to 2.4]), hypokalemia
>>>> (potassium level, 3.2 mmol per liter [12.5 mg per deciliter]; reference
>>>> range, 3.8 to 5.0 [14.9 to 19.5]), and a normal serum osmolal gap (3.1
>>>> mOsm
>>>> per kilogram; reference value, <10). Despite rapid correction of the
>>>> electrolyte levels, the QT interval remained prolonged. During admission
>>>> to
>>>> the intensive care unit, with no further doses of ibogaine given, the QT
>>>> interval normalized at 42 hours after presentation. The patient was
>>>> subsequently discharged, in good condition.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, ibogaine use was associated with severe lengthening of the
>>>> QT interval and ventricular tachyarrhythmias, which normalized after 42
>>>> hours. These findings are suggestive of a causal relation. The
>>>> electrolyte
>>>> imbalance may also have played a role. The previously described sudden
>>>> deaths may thus have been caused by cardiac-rhythm abnormalities induced
>>>> by
>>>> QT-interval lengthening, ventricular tachyarrhythmias, or both.
>>>>
>>>> At the doses currently used, ibogaine can lead to serious cardiac-rhythm
>>>> abnormalities. The use and possible future trials of the drug should be
>>>> permitted only under strict medical observation and continuous
>>>> electrocardiographic monitoring.
>>>>
>>>> Dianne W.M. Hoelen, M.D.
>>>> Wilko Spiering, M.D., Ph.D.
>>>> Gerlof D. Valk, M.D., Ph.D.
>>>> University Medical Center Utrecht
>>>> 3584 CX Utrecht, the Netherlands
>>>> g.d.valk at umcutrecht.nl
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> He D-Y, McGough NNH, Ravindranathan A, et al. Glial cell line-derived
>>>> neurotrophic factor mediates the desirable actions of the anti-addiction
>>>> drug ibogaine against alcohol consumption. J Neurosci 2005;25:619-628.
>>>> [Free
>>>> Full Text]
>>>> Vastag B. Addiction treatment strives for legitimacy. JAMA
>>>> 2002;288:3096,
>>>> 3099-101.
>>>> Vastag B. Addiction research -- ibogaine therapy: a `vast, uncontrolled
>>>> experiment.' Science 2005;308:345-346. [Erratum, Science 2005;308:1260.]
>>>> [Free Full Text]
>>>> Lotsof HS, Wachtel B. Manual for ibogaine therapy: screening, safety,
>>>> monitoring & aftercare. Second revision. The Ibogaine Dossier, 2003.
>>>> (Accessed December 22, 2008, at http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html.)
>>>> Maas U, Strubelt S. Fatalities after taking ibogaine in addiction
>>>> treatment could be related to sudden cardiac death caused by autonomic
>>>> dysfunction. Med Hypotheses 2006;67:960-964. [Medline]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: Mindvox <mindvox at lunartproductions.com>
>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 5:22:25 AM
>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine in the Netherlands
>>>>
>>>> Near-fatal treatment in the Netherlands...
>>>>
>>>> Links:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.artsennet.nl/content/resources//AMGATE_6059_1_TICH_R2438011050651223//
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  'Afkickmedicijn' iboga?ne veroorzaakt hartritmestoornis
>>>> Bron(nen): UMC Utrecht
>>>>
>>>> Smart drug en 'afkickmedicijn' iboga?ne kan dodelijke hartritme
>>>> stoornissen veroorzaken. Dit schrijven artsen van het UMC Utrecht in een
>>>> case report in het tijdschrift New England Journal of Medicine van 15
>>>> januari. Ze verklaren daarmee als eerste de schadelijkheid van het
>>>> omstreden
>>>> middel.
>>>>
>>>> In het case report beschrijven internisten een 31-jarige Amerikaanse
>>>> vrouw
>>>> die op de spoedeisende hulp van het UMC Utrecht kwam nadat zij onwel was
>>>> geworden na het gebruik van iboga?ne. Dit had zij gebruikt om van haar
>>>> alcoholverslaving af te komen. Tijdens haar behandeling op de
>>>> spoedeisende
>>>> hulp kreeg zij een ernstige hartritmestoornis. Het duurde bijna twee
>>>> dagen
>>>> voordat de hartritmestoornis was verdwenen. Het verband tussen het
>>>> gebruik
>>>> van iboga?ne en het optreden van de hartritmestoornis ligt volgens de
>>>> artsen
>>>> van het UMC Utrecht voor de hand.
>>>>
>>>> Iboga? vrij verkrijgbaar
>>>> Iboga?ne is in een beperkt aantal landen, waaronder Nederland, vrij
>>>> verkrijgbaar. Het wordt gebruikt als smart drug. Daarnaast claimen
>>>> alternatieve genezers en sommige artsen dat een eenmalige dosis van het
>>>> middel mensen van hun drugs- of alcoholverslaving af kan helpen. Voor
>>>> dit
>>>> effect bestaan weliswaar wetenschappelijke aanwijzingen bij proefdieren,
>>>> grootschalige onderzoeken bij mensen ontbreken echter. Onderzoek naar
>>>> iboga?ne is lastig omdat het middel levensgevaarlijk kan zijn. Het is
>>>> bekend
>>>> dat gebruikers van iboga?ne soms overlijden. Waardoor dat komt was tot
>>>> nu
>>>> toe onduidelijk.
>>>>
>>>> Hulpmiddel afkicken
>>>> "Ibogaine wordt momenteel in Nederland gebruikt als hulpmiddel bij het
>>>> afkicken in situaties zonder medisch toezicht waardoor het juist
>>>> levensbedreigend kan zijn", concludeert internist-endocrinoloog dr.
>>>> Gerlof
>>>> Valk van het UMC Utrecht, ??n van de internisten betrokken bij de opvang
>>>> van
>>>> de pati?nt. "De risico's voor de gezondheid gelden zowel voor de
>>>> toepassing
>>>> als smart drug, maar ook voor het gebruik als afkickmiddel. Wij vinden
>>>> dat
>>>> iboga?ne alleen onder medisch toezicht gebruikt mag worden voor
>>>> therapeutische doeleinden."
>>>>
>>>> De artsen hebben de iboga?ne-vergiftiging gemeld bij de Inspectie voor
>>>> de
>>>> Gezondheidszorg.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Translation:
>>>>
>>>>  Detox-medicine iboga?ne cause heart rhythm impairment
>>>> Source (nen): UMC Utrecht
>>>>
>>>> Smart drug and `detox-medicine' iboga?ne can cause deadly heart rhythm
>>>> impairments. This letter doctors of the UMC Utrecht in a case report in
>>>> the
>>>> illustrated magazine New England Journal or Medicine of 15 January. They
>>>> explain with that as first the harmfulness of the controversial means.
>>>>
>>>> In case report internists describe a 31 year old American woman who came
>>>> on the emergency service of the UMC Utrecht after she had become
>>>> indisposed
>>>> after the use of iboga?ne. This had they uses to descend of its alcohol
>>>> addiction. During its treatment on the emergency service she got a
>>>> serious
>>>> heart rhythm impairment. It lasted almost two days before the heart
>>>> rhythm
>>>> impairment had disappeared. The link between the use of iboga?ne and
>>>> acting
>>>> the heart rhythm impairment lies according to the doctors of the UMC
>>>> Utrecht
>>>> for the hand.
>>>>
>>>> Iboga? rather available
>>>> Iboga?ne are a number of countries limited in, among which the
>>>> Netherlands, rather available. It is used as smart drug. Moreover
>>>> alternative healers claim and some doctors that a one-off amount of the
>>>> means people of their drugs or alcohol addiction finished can help. For
>>>> this
>>>> impact indeed scientific indications exist at test animals, large-scale
>>>> researches at people are lacking however. Study into iboga?ne is
>>>> cumbersome
>>>> because the means can be perilous. It has been confessed that users of
>>>> iboga?ne die sometimes. How that comes were so far unclear.
>>>>
>>>> Appliances kick the habit
>>>> Ibogaine are at present used in the Netherlands as appliances at kick
>>>> the
>>>> habit in situations without medical supervision as a result of which it
>>>> can
>>>> be correctly life-threatening, internist endocrinoloog conclude dr.
>>>> Gerlof
>>>> falcon of the UMC Utrecht, one of the internists involved at the relief
>>>> of
>>>> the patient. The risk for health applies both for the application and
>>>> smart
>>>> drug, but also for the use as afkickmiddel. We find that iboga?ne can be
>>>> only used under medical supervision for therapeutic aims.
>>>>
>>>> The doctors have communicated iboga?ne poisoning at the inspection for
>>>> the
>>>> health care.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> AND:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/Wetenschap/article1959054.ece/Afkickdrug_kan_dodelijk_uitpakken_.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Afkickdrug kan dodelijk uitpakken
>>>>
>>>> De iboga-wortel, een populair alternatief middel tegen verslaving, kan
>>>> dodelijke hartritmestoornissen geven. In Utrecht is een vrouw er bijna
>>>> aan
>>>> overleden.
>>>>
>>>> Een 31-jarige Amerikaanse vrouw heeft ternauwernood een vergiftiging met
>>>> een extract van de Afrikaanse iboga-wortel overleefd. Ze was speciaal
>>>> naar
>>>> Nederland gekomen om zich met dit sterk hallucinogene middel, iboga?ne,
>>>> te
>>>> laten behandelen tegen haar alcoholverslaving.
>>>>
>>>> De drug, in de meeste landen verboden, is in Nederland toegestaan. Hij
>>>> wordt in het alternatieve circuit gebruikt, naar verluidt met groot
>>>> succes.
>>>> Met ??n dosis iboga?ne raak je een paar dagen compleet van de wereld.
>>>> Als je
>>>> wakker wordt, ben je clean, zo wil het verhaal.
>>>>
>>>> Maar bij de Amerikaanse liep het anders. Ze belandde op de intensive
>>>> care
>>>> van het Universitair Medisch Centrum Utrecht, met ernstige
>>>> hartritmestoornissen die haar fataal dreigden te worden. Pas na twee
>>>> dagen
>>>> herstelde het hart zich, melden haar artsen vandaag in het vakblad The
>>>> New
>>>> England Journal of Medicine. Ze hebben de Inspectie voor de
>>>> Gezondheidszorg
>>>> gewaarschuwd.
>>>>
>>>> ?Op zich kunnen we niet met zekerheid vaststellen dat iboga?ne de
>>>> oorzaak
>>>> van de klachten was", relativeert de behandelend internist Gerlof Valk.
>>>> ?Maar de aanwijzingen zijn sterk. De klachten begonnen kort na de inname
>>>> en
>>>> verdwenen een paar dagen later. De pati?nte had verder geen middelen
>>>> gebruikt. Lichamelijk konden we ook geen andere verklaring vinden."
>>>>
>>>> De artsen noemen de vondst belangrijk omdat deze nieuw licht werpt op de
>>>> raadselachtige dood van elf eerdere iboga?ne-gebruikers. Zelfs een
>>>> autopsie
>>>> heeft in die gevallen geen duidelijkheid gebracht over de doodsoorzaak.
>>>> Het
>>>> bleef daardoor onzeker of de drug de boosdoener was, of misschien de
>>>> alcohol
>>>> of iets anders wat de slachtoffers tegelijkertijd hadden ingenomen.
>>>>
>>>> De nieuwe waarneming, waarbij de drug als het ware 'op heterdaad' is
>>>> betrapt, maakt het volgens de Utrechtse artsen een stuk aannemelijker
>>>> dat
>>>> het middel zelf riskant is. Ze pleiten er daarom voor om de stof
>>>> voortaan
>>>> alleen nog onder medische begeleiding en onder permanente hartbewaking
>>>> toe
>>>> te dienen. Dat zou het gebruik door alternatieve therapeuten sterk
>>>> bemoeilijken.
>>>>
>>>> Overigens is het de vraag of iboga?ne echt zo fabelachtig tegen
>>>> verslaving
>>>> werkt als alternatieve therapeuten beweren. ?Op internet zijn allerlei
>>>> filmpjes te zien van mensen die dankzij iboga?ne van hun verslaving zijn
>>>> afgekomen", zegt Valk. ?Maar hard wetenschappelijk bewijs ontbreekt."
>>>> Goed
>>>> onderzoek met pati?nten is nooit gedaan, onder meer vanwege twijfel over
>>>> de
>>>> veiligheid. Wel is gekeken naar verslaafde ratjes; die toonden zich
>>>> dankzij
>>>> iboga?ne inderdaad minder afhankelijk van morfine, coca?ne of alcohol.
>>>>
>>>> Hoeveel mensen zich tot nu toe met de drug hebben laten behandelen, is
>>>> onduidelijk. Het tv-programma 'Nova' repte in 2006 van duizenden mensen
>>>> wereldwijd, en van ruim 220 pati?nten die door de Nederlandse therapeute
>>>> Sara Glatt waren geholpen. In de uitzending stelde een deskundige dat de
>>>> reguliere verslavingszorg met iboga?ne een grote kans liet liggen.
>>>>
>>>> Behalve als afkickmedicijn gebruiken sommigen de iboga-wortel als smart
>>>> drug, omdat hij zo'n intense en langdurige roes veroorzaakt. Die diepe
>>>> trance is ook de reden waarom Afrikaanse stammen de plant inzetten
>>>> tijdens
>>>> riten.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Translation:
>>>>
>>>> Detox-drug can unpack deadly
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Iboga-root, the popular alternative means against addiction, can give
>>>> deadly heart rhythm impairments. In Utrecht a woman is there almost to
>>>> deceased.
>>>>
>>>> A 31 year old American woman a poisoning with an extract of African
>>>> iboga-root has just survived. She especially to the Netherlands had come
>>>> with this strongly hallucinogenic means, iboga?ne, let treat itself
>>>> against
>>>> its alcohol addiction.
>>>>
>>>> The drug, prohibited in the most countries, in the Netherlands it has
>>>> been
>>>> permitted. He is used in the alternative circuit, according to reports
>>>> with
>>>> large success. With one amount of iboga?ne touch you a couple days
>>>> completely of the world. If you become awake, be you clean, this way it
>>>> wants tale.
>>>>
>>>> But at American it ran differently. She ended up on the intensive care
>>>> of
>>>> the university medical centre Utrecht, with serious heart rhythm
>>>> impairments
>>>> which threatened become its fatally. Just after two days repaired the
>>>> heart,
>>>> its doctors communicate themselves The New England Journal or Medicine
>>>> today
>>>> in the profession booklet. They have warned the inspection for the
>>>> health
>>>> care.
>>>>
>>>> ?In itself cannot determine we with certainty that iboga?ne were the
>>>> cause
>>>> of the complaints, relativise the treating internist Gerlof falcon. ?But
>>>> the
>>>> indications are strong. Days started the complaints later shortly after
>>>> ingestion and disappeared a couple. The patient had further used no
>>>> resources. Physically we could find other declaration also no.
>>>>
>>>> The doctors call the find important because these throw slightly new on
>>>> enigmatic dead of eleven earlier iboga?ne users. Even an autopsy has
>>>> which
>>>> fallen no clarity brought concerning the cause of death. It remained
>>>> uncertainly as a result, or the drug the cause was, or perhaps the
>>>> alcohol
>>>> or something else what the victims had taken at the same time.
>>>>
>>>> New perception, where the drug as it were has been caught, makes it
>>>> according to the Utrechtse doctors a piece more plausible that the means
>>>> himself is risky. They plead for this reason to administer the substance
>>>> as
>>>> of now only still under medical accompaniment and under permanent heart
>>>> guarding. That it strongly would hamper use by alternative therapists.
>>>>
>>>> Moreover it is the question if iboga?ne work really this way fabulous
>>>> against addiction such as alternative therapists claim. ?On Internet are
>>>> all
>>>> kinds of see small films of people who have descended thanks to iboga?ne
>>>> of
>>>> their addiction, say falcon. ?But rapidly scientific proof are lacking.
>>>> Well
>>>> research with patients has been never done, including because of doubt
>>>> concerning the security. However, it has been looked at to addictive
>>>> little
>>>> rats; those showed themselves thanks to iboga?ne indeed less dependent
>>>> on
>>>> morphine, cocaine or alcohol.
>>>>
>>>> How many people itself so far with the drug have let treat, is unclear.
>>>> The tv-programma Nova' mentioned in 2006, of thousands of people
>>>> worldwide,
>>>> and of wide 220 patients who had been helped by the Dutch therapist Sara
>>>> Glatt. In the retransmission put to an expert to that to the regular
>>>> care
>>>> and treatment of drug addicts with iboga?ne to a large chance let lie.
>>>>
>>>> Except as detox-drug uses some iboga-root as smart drug, because he
>>>> causes
>>>> such a intense and long-term fuddle. That deep trance is also the reason
>>>> why
>>>> descends African the plant uses during rites.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Translation is done through an online web translator, so as you just
>>>> read,
>>>> it is not very accurate...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Ben De Loenen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:39:19 -0600
>> From: Jeremy Spence <jlspence at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 85
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Message-ID: <7ACEB0A5-C661-4D44-A70C-B0CD6F78D3C4 at mac.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> would'nt benzo's help??
>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 5:14 PM, ibogaine-request at mindvox.com wrote:
>>
>> Send Ibogaine mailing list submissions to
>>>        ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>        http://www.mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>        ibogaine-request at mindvox.com
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>        ibogaine-owner at mindvox.com
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Ibogaine digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>  1. Re: QT info (Kevin Walker)
>>>  2. Re: Voacanga Africana plant (sitkaa)
>>>  3. Re: QT info (Luke Christoffersen)
>>>  4. Re: conference? (robert charleston)
>>>  5. Re: QT info (Charles Rossouw)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:14:05 +0200
>>> From: "Kevin Walker" <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>> To: "'The Ibogaine List'" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Message-ID: <000601c97a7a$df594c60$9e0be520$@co.za>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> QT interval represents the electrical re-polarization of the heart.
>>> It is
>>> measured from an electrocardiogram (ECG). A long QT interval
>>> predisposes the
>>> heart to arrhythmias, which can sometimes be life threatening. Most
>>> cases
>>> are acquired due to abnormalities in the blood electrolytes (low
>>> potassium
>>> or magnesium) or certain drugs (psychotropic agents, certain
>>> antibiotics and
>>> antifungal). It can also be due to decrease blood supply to certain
>>> regions
>>> of the heart (coronary artery disease) or myocardial disease. The
>>> congenital
>>> variety is known as long QT syndrome and there over 7 - 10 subtypes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ipej.org/0204/vincent.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Kevin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Image5
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
>>>
>>>
>>> Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
>>> This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to
>>> which it
>>> is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
>>> confidential
>>> and exempt from exposure under applicable law.   If the reader
>>> of this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby
>>> notified
>>> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication
>>> is
>>> strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error please destroy
>>> immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus transmittal
>>> are taken
>>> by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd (and associated
>>> companies) we
>>> cannot accept any responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
>>>
>>>
>>> 12 Floria St
>>> Edleen
>>> Kempton Park
>>> 1619
>>> <Tel:+27> Tel:+27 11 391 7005
>>> Cell:+27 82 557 8480
>>> <http://www.ibogainesa.co.za> www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
>>> e-mail:  <mailto:kevin at ibogainesa.co.za>
>>> kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com
>>> ] On
>>> Behalf Of michael langshaw
>>> Sent: 19 January 2009 10:55 PM
>>> To: The Ibogaine List
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> Could someone tell me what QT is.  Thanks...Mike
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 1/19/09, Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 11:39 AM
>>>
>>> Hi Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amiodarone can be used, although there is small possibility that it
>>> can also
>>> cause prolonged QT. The problem with the seizures are that people can
>>> misinterpret it as severe withdrawals, and may think to use
>>> morphine, which
>>> can then become fatal.  It is important to give the personnel at the
>>> hospital as much a possible information about ibogaine, and to tell
>>> everybody that has contact with the patient: "NO OPIATES!"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that patients should be monitored by ECG throughout treatment,
>>> although I have never done that.  Mia culpa.  I just think the monitor
>>> should be on an extension in a different room, because of the constant
>>> beeping, which be distractive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.qtsyndrome.ch/faq.html
>>>
>>> After reading this I wondered if what they are calling a "seizure-like
>>> attack" in the article about the incident in the Netherlands, was
>>> actually a
>>> loss of consciousness.  If it is as common as they say it is, I
>>> imagine that
>>> unfortunately, we may be seeing more deaths.  To answer my own
>>> question from
>>> my previous post it looks like her corrected QT of 616ms is actually
>>> quite
>>> high.
>>>
>>> This article also says "It is generally estimated that approximately
>>> 10% to
>>> 12% of all patients with long QT syndrome show a normal QT-interval
>>> on their
>>> ECG."  which is a little troubling in terms of exclusion criteria.
>>> They
>>> also mention physical exertion and stress as being points at which
>>> high QT
>>> interval people suddenly die.  I know it is common for the Bwiti to
>>> engage
>>> in physical exertion (i.e. dancing) while on low doses of iboga, I
>>> wonder if
>>> there have been incidences in which these people suddenly died without
>>> warning.
>>>
>>> They also mention beta blockers as a likely treatment. Would anyone
>>> who
>>> knows about these things care to conjecture what might happen if
>>> someone
>>> took a beta blocker with ibogaine?
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> +27 71 687 0068
>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:18:44 -0500
>>> From: sitkaa <athabaskana at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Voacanga Africana plant
>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>        <b4318a620901191318o6b44c91an56706a9aa971687b at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Not that I am asking you to revaeal if you broke the law, mind you.
>>> Don't
>>> want to get anyone in trouble with our burgeoning police state. Just
>>> hypothetically.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM, sitkaa <athabaskana at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So were I to pursue making ibogaine, a viable method would be using
>>>> the
>>>> bark of voacanga?
>>>>
>>>> This doesn't look that difficult. Has anyone else here done this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Charles Rossouw <
>>>> charles.rossouw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Voacanga is used to make the Ibogaine HCL that we are using now.
>>>>> So it
>>>>> has to be viable and preferred to using T Iboga roots. I believe
>>>>> its also
>>>>> the suggested route to get a pharmaceutical grade ibogaine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:13 PM, sitkaa <athabaskana at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Howdy again Simon,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about Chris Jenks method? Is this economically tenable/viable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It looks like there would be alot of advantages to this method.
>>>>>> Is the
>>>>>> extraction/isolation of voacangine difficult?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> m
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 7:06 AM, simon loxton <
>>>>>> simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is used in similar type rituals but as a precursor to
>>>>>>> ibogaine its
>>>>>>> a hell of a mission and expensive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *To:* Ibogaine List Posting <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, 19 January, 2009 1:30:56
>>>>>>> *Subject:* [Ibogaine] Voacanga Africana plant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone know if the Voacanga Africana is used in any way similar to
>>>>>>> Tabernanthe Iboga.  Looks like the Voacanga Africana contains
>>>>>>> Voacangine,
>>>>>>> which is an alkaloid that may be a precursor to ibogaine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Edward
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> +27 71 687 0068
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:29:17 +0000
>>> From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>        <4c90d90901191329t3084ba6bh30a8514867cb3631 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> I was just going to say something about the magnesium as that post
>>> about the person who had problems had low magnesium among other
>>> things.  Perhaps bad lifestyle and poor nutrition could make some
>>> people more prone to these problems?
>>>
>>> When I did a treatment my qt length was apparently not much longer on
>>> the reading after about 24 hours. Maybe just me though I was also
>>> taking calcium and magnesium supplements the days before.
>>>
>>> Luke
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Kevin Walker
>>> <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> QT interval represents the electrical re-polarization of the heart.
>>>> It is
>>>> measured from an electrocardiogram (ECG). A long QT interval
>>>> predisposes the
>>>> heart to arrhythmias, which can sometimes be life threatening. Most
>>>> cases
>>>> are acquired due to abnormalities in the blood electrolytes (low
>>>> potassium
>>>> or magnesium) or certain drugs (psychotropic agents, certain
>>>> antibiotics and
>>>> antifungal). It can also be due to decrease blood supply to certain
>>>> regions
>>>> of the heart (coronary artery disease) or myocardial disease. The
>>>> congenital
>>>> variety is known as long QT syndrome and there over 7 - 10 subtypes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ipej.org/0204/vincent.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Kevin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
>>>> This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to
>>>> which it
>>>> is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
>>>> confidential
>>>> and exempt from exposure under applicable law.   If the reader
>>>> of this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby
>>>> notified
>>>> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the
>>>> communication is
>>>> strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error please
>>>> destroy
>>>> immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus transmittal
>>>> are taken
>>>> by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd (and associated
>>>> companies) we
>>>> cannot accept any responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
>>>>
>>>> 12 Floria St
>>>> Edleen
>>>> Kempton Park
>>>> 1619
>>>> Tel:+27 11 391 7005
>>>> Cell:+27 82 557 8480
>>>> www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
>>>> e-mail: kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com
>>>> ] On
>>>> Behalf Of michael langshaw
>>>> Sent: 19 January 2009 10:55 PM
>>>> To: The Ibogaine List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> Could someone tell me what QT is.  Thanks...Mike
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 1/19/09, Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 11:39 AM
>>>>
>>>> Hi Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amiodarone can be used, although there is small possibility that it
>>>> can
>>>> also cause prolonged QT. The problem with the seizures are that
>>>> people can
>>>> misinterpret it as severe withdrawals, and may think to use morphine,
>>>> which can then become fatal.  It is important to give the personnel
>>>> at the
>>>> hospital as much a possible information about ibogaine, and to tell
>>>> everybody that has contact with the patient: "NO OPIATES!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree that patients should be monitored by ECG throughout
>>>> treatment, although I have never done that.  Mia culpa.  I just
>>>> think the
>>>> monitor should be on an extension in a different room, because of the
>>>> constant beeping, which be distractive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.qtsyndrome.ch/faq.html
>>>>
>>>> After reading this I wondered if what they are calling a "seizure-
>>>> like
>>>> attack" in the article about the incident in the Netherlands, was
>>>> actually a
>>>> loss of consciousness.  If it is as common as they say it is, I
>>>> imagine that
>>>> unfortunately, we may be seeing more deaths.  To answer my own
>>>> question from
>>>> my previous post it looks like her corrected QT of 616ms is
>>>> actually quite
>>>> high.
>>>>
>>>> This article also says "It is generally estimated that
>>>> approximately 10% to
>>>> 12% of all patients with long QT syndrome show a normal QT-interval
>>>> on their
>>>> ECG."  which is a little troubling in terms of exclusion criteria.
>>>> They
>>>> also mention physical exertion and stress as being points at which
>>>> high QT
>>>> interval people suddenly die.  I know it is common for the Bwiti to
>>>> engage
>>>> in physical exertion (i.e. dancing) while on low doses of iboga, I
>>>> wonder if
>>>> there have been incidences in which these people suddenly died
>>>> without
>>>> warning.
>>>>
>>>> They also mention beta blockers as a likely treatment. Would anyone
>>>> who
>>>> knows about these things care to conjecture what might happen if
>>>> someone
>>>> took a beta blocker with ibogaine?
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> +27 71 687 0068
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:25:39 -0500
>>> From: robert charleston <robster1971 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] conference?
>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>        <da0d2f460901191425l23cc351dj42e21e55d4dedf9 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Charles,
>>> thank great appreciation for  this direction.
>>>
>>> Rob C.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Charles Rossouw
>>> <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rob
>>>>
>>>> I think Dr Ken Alper will also attend.  He is actually one of the
>>>> experts
>>>> on the medical side.
>>>>
>>>> On your question about the near fatal dose - It is not dose
>>>> related, but
>>>> can be linked to the ECG prior to treatment.
>>>>
>>>> ANY abnormality in the ECG, and especially arrythmias and prolonged
>>>> QT,
>>>> disqualifies a person from treatment.
>>>>
>>>> It is also really really important to have person with a medical
>>>> background
>>>> in attendance, with plans to get an ambulance to you if a problem
>>>> occurs.
>>>> The problem that occurs with ibogaine is called Torsade de Pointes
>>>> and can
>>>> be treated relatively easy with Lidocaine (Lignocaine) or some
>>>> substances
>>>> that regulate the heart rythm, so you need someone who is able to
>>>> recognise
>>>> early onset of the problem.  Ken once said to me that it is like a
>>>> symphony
>>>> concert, where symptoms start slowly, and then builds up to a
>>>> crescendo.
>>>> Recognising them early is important.
>>>>
>>>> You can also try to contact Dr Udi Bastiaans - he's somewhere in
>>>> Amsterdam,
>>>> but I don't have his email address.  I know he is on Skype.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM, robert charleston <
>>>> robster1971 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i will do my best to attend this one , i think that i m close
>>>>> enough to
>>>>> appear and learn that much more sweet this is going well, i really
>>>>> want to
>>>>> attend
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM, michael langshaw <
>>>>> mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a  worldwide ibogaine conference being held in Boston
>>>>>> sponsored by the Northeastern University chapter. It's being held
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> 14th, 15th,16th of February. Does anyone know if this open to the
>>>>>> public. I
>>>>>> found it by googeling Ibogaine 2009. I'd imagine that this could
>>>>>> be very
>>>>>> interesting and I'm starving for knowledge. Thanxs!
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> +27 71 687 0068
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:14:35 +0200
>>> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>        <5966395b0901191514t23cb8752ha364f29cb9fdf588 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> In simple terms, QT is the time the heart takes to re-charge after
>>> firing,
>>> i.e. getting ready to give the next pump.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:55 PM, michael langshaw <
>>> mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>> Could someone tell me what QT is.  Thanks...Mike
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Mon, 1/19/09, Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>*
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 11:39 AM
>>>>
>>>> Hi Matt
>>>>
>>>> Amiodarone can be used, although there is small possibility that it
>>>> can
>>>> also cause prolonged QT. The problem with the seizures are that
>>>> people can
>>>> misinterpret it as severe withdrawals, and may think to use morphine,
>>>> which can then become fatal.  It is important to give the personnel
>>>> at the
>>>> hospital as much a possible information about ibogaine, and to tell
>>>> everybody that has contact with the patient: "NO OPIATES!"
>>>>
>>>> I agree that patients should be monitored by ECG throughout
>>>> treatment, although I have never done that.  Mia culpa.  I just
>>>> think the
>>>> monitor should be on an extension in a different room, because of the
>>>> constant beeping, which be distractive.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.qtsyndrome.ch/faq.html
>>>>>
>>>>> After reading this I wondered if what they are calling a "seizure-
>>>>> like
>>>>> attack" in the article about the incident in the Netherlands, was
>>>>> actually a
>>>>> loss of consciousness.  If it is as common as they say it is, I
>>>>> imagine that
>>>>> unfortunately, we may be seeing more deaths.  To answer my own
>>>>> question from
>>>>> my previous post it looks like her corrected QT of 616ms is
>>>>> actually quite
>>>>> high.
>>>>>
>>>>> This article also says "It is generally estimated that
>>>>> approximately 10%
>>>>> to 12% of all patients with long QT syndrome show a normal QT-
>>>>> interval on
>>>>> their ECG."  which is a little troubling in terms of exclusion
>>>>> criteria.
>>>>> They also mention physical exertion and stress as being points at
>>>>> which high
>>>>> QT interval people suddenly die.  I know it is common for the
>>>>> Bwiti to
>>>>> engage in physical exertion (i.e. dancing) while on low doses of
>>>>> iboga, I
>>>>> wonder if there have been incidences in which these people
>>>>> suddenly died
>>>>> without warning.
>>>>>
>>>>> They also mention beta blockers as a likely treatment. Would
>>>>> anyone who
>>>>> knows about these things care to conjecture what might happen if
>>>>> someone
>>>>> took a beta blocker with ibogaine?
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> +27 71 687 0068
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> End of Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 85
>>> ****************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
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>>
>> End of Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 86
>> ****************************************
>>
>
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