[Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 85

Jeremy Spence jlspence at mac.com
Mon Jan 19 18:39:19 EST 2009


would'nt benzo's help??
On Jan 19, 2009, at 5:14 PM, ibogaine-request at mindvox.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: QT info (Kevin Walker)
>   2. Re: Voacanga Africana plant (sitkaa)
>   3. Re: QT info (Luke Christoffersen)
>   4. Re: conference? (robert charleston)
>   5. Re: QT info (Charles Rossouw)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:14:05 +0200
> From: "Kevin Walker" <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
> To: "'The Ibogaine List'" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID: <000601c97a7a$df594c60$9e0be520$@co.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Mike,
>
>
>
> QT interval represents the electrical re-polarization of the heart.  
> It is
> measured from an electrocardiogram (ECG). A long QT interval  
> predisposes the
> heart to arrhythmias, which can sometimes be life threatening. Most  
> cases
> are acquired due to abnormalities in the blood electrolytes (low  
> potassium
> or magnesium) or certain drugs (psychotropic agents, certain  
> antibiotics and
> antifungal). It can also be due to decrease blood supply to certain  
> regions
> of the heart (coronary artery disease) or myocardial disease. The  
> congenital
> variety is known as long QT syndrome and there over 7 - 10 subtypes.
>
>
>
> http://www.ipej.org/0204/vincent.htm
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kevin.
>
>
>
> Image5
>
>
>
> NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
>
>
> Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
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> which it
> is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,  
> confidential
> and exempt from exposure under applicable law.   If the reader
> of this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby  
> notified
> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication  
> is
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error please destroy
> immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus transmittal  
> are taken
> by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd (and associated  
> companies) we
> cannot accept any responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
>
>
> 12 Floria St
> Edleen
> Kempton Park
> 1619
> <Tel:+27> Tel:+27 11 391 7005
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> kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com 
> ] On
> Behalf Of michael langshaw
> Sent: 19 January 2009 10:55 PM
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>
>
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Could someone tell me what QT is.  Thanks...Mike
>
> --- On Mon, 1/19/09, Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 11:39 AM
>
> Hi Matt
>
>
>
> Amiodarone can be used, although there is small possibility that it  
> can also
> cause prolonged QT. The problem with the seizures are that people can
> misinterpret it as severe withdrawals, and may think to use  
> morphine, which
> can then become fatal.  It is important to give the personnel at the
> hospital as much a possible information about ibogaine, and to tell
> everybody that has contact with the patient: "NO OPIATES!"
>
>
>
> I agree that patients should be monitored by ECG throughout treatment,
> although I have never done that.  Mia culpa.  I just think the monitor
> should be on an extension in a different room, because of the constant
> beeping, which be distractive.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Charles
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
> http://www.qtsyndrome.ch/faq.html
>
> After reading this I wondered if what they are calling a "seizure-like
> attack" in the article about the incident in the Netherlands, was  
> actually a
> loss of consciousness.  If it is as common as they say it is, I  
> imagine that
> unfortunately, we may be seeing more deaths.  To answer my own  
> question from
> my previous post it looks like her corrected QT of 616ms is actually  
> quite
> high.
>
> This article also says "It is generally estimated that approximately  
> 10% to
> 12% of all patients with long QT syndrome show a normal QT-interval  
> on their
> ECG."  which is a little troubling in terms of exclusion criteria.   
> They
> also mention physical exertion and stress as being points at which  
> high QT
> interval people suddenly die.  I know it is common for the Bwiti to  
> engage
> in physical exertion (i.e. dancing) while on low doses of iboga, I  
> wonder if
> there have been incidences in which these people suddenly died without
> warning.
>
> They also mention beta blockers as a likely treatment. Would anyone  
> who
> knows about these things care to conjecture what might happen if  
> someone
> took a beta blocker with ibogaine?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> -- 
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:18:44 -0500
> From: sitkaa <athabaskana at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Voacanga Africana plant
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<b4318a620901191318o6b44c91an56706a9aa971687b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Not that I am asking you to revaeal if you broke the law, mind you.  
> Don't
> want to get anyone in trouble with our burgeoning police state. Just
> hypothetically.
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM, sitkaa <athabaskana at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So were I to pursue making ibogaine, a viable method would be using  
>> the
>> bark of voacanga?
>>
>> This doesn't look that difficult. Has anyone else here done this?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Charles Rossouw <
>> charles.rossouw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For sure.
>>>
>>> Voacanga is used to make the Ibogaine HCL that we are using now.   
>>> So it
>>> has to be viable and preferred to using T Iboga roots. I believe  
>>> its also
>>> the suggested route to get a pharmaceutical grade ibogaine.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:13 PM, sitkaa <athabaskana at gmail.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Howdy again Simon,
>>>>
>>>> What about Chris Jenks method? Is this economically tenable/viable?
>>>>
>>>> It looks like there would be alot of advantages to this method.  
>>>> Is the
>>>> extraction/isolation of voacangine difficult?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 7:06 AM, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk 
>>>> >wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It is used in similar type rituals but as a precursor to  
>>>>> ibogaine its
>>>>> a hell of a mission and expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>>> *To:* Ibogaine List Posting <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, 19 January, 2009 1:30:56
>>>>> *Subject:* [Ibogaine] Voacanga Africana plant
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone know if the Voacanga Africana is used in any way similar to
>>>>> Tabernanthe Iboga.  Looks like the Voacanga Africana contains  
>>>>> Voacangine,
>>>>> which is an alkaloid that may be a precursor to ibogaine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> --
>>>>> Edward
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> +27 71 687 0068
>>>
>>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:29:17 +0000
> From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<4c90d90901191329t3084ba6bh30a8514867cb3631 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I was just going to say something about the magnesium as that post
> about the person who had problems had low magnesium among other
> things.  Perhaps bad lifestyle and poor nutrition could make some
> people more prone to these problems?
>
> When I did a treatment my qt length was apparently not much longer on
> the reading after about 24 hours. Maybe just me though I was also
> taking calcium and magnesium supplements the days before.
>
> Luke
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Kevin Walker  
> <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za> wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>>
>>
>> QT interval represents the electrical re-polarization of the heart.  
>> It is
>> measured from an electrocardiogram (ECG). A long QT interval  
>> predisposes the
>> heart to arrhythmias, which can sometimes be life threatening. Most  
>> cases
>> are acquired due to abnormalities in the blood electrolytes (low  
>> potassium
>> or magnesium) or certain drugs (psychotropic agents, certain  
>> antibiotics and
>> antifungal). It can also be due to decrease blood supply to certain  
>> regions
>> of the heart (coronary artery disease) or myocardial disease. The  
>> congenital
>> variety is known as long QT syndrome and there over 7 - 10 subtypes.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.ipej.org/0204/vincent.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Kevin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
>> This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to  
>> which it
>> is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,  
>> confidential
>> and exempt from exposure under applicable law.   If the reader
>> of this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby  
>> notified
>> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the  
>> communication is
>> strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error please  
>> destroy
>> immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus transmittal  
>> are taken
>> by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd (and associated  
>> companies) we
>> cannot accept any responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
>>
>> 12 Floria St
>> Edleen
>> Kempton Park
>> 1619
>> Tel:+27 11 391 7005
>> Cell:+27 82 557 8480
>> www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
>> e-mail: kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com 
>> ] On
>> Behalf Of michael langshaw
>> Sent: 19 January 2009 10:55 PM
>> To: The Ibogaine List
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> Could someone tell me what QT is.  Thanks...Mike
>>
>> --- On Mon, 1/19/09, Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 11:39 AM
>>
>> Hi Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> Amiodarone can be used, although there is small possibility that it  
>> can
>> also cause prolonged QT. The problem with the seizures are that  
>> people can
>> misinterpret it as severe withdrawals, and may think to use morphine,
>> which can then become fatal.  It is important to give the personnel  
>> at the
>> hospital as much a possible information about ibogaine, and to tell
>> everybody that has contact with the patient: "NO OPIATES!"
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree that patients should be monitored by ECG throughout
>> treatment, although I have never done that.  Mia culpa.  I just  
>> think the
>> monitor should be on an extension in a different room, because of the
>> constant beeping, which be distractive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.qtsyndrome.ch/faq.html
>>
>> After reading this I wondered if what they are calling a "seizure- 
>> like
>> attack" in the article about the incident in the Netherlands, was  
>> actually a
>> loss of consciousness.  If it is as common as they say it is, I  
>> imagine that
>> unfortunately, we may be seeing more deaths.  To answer my own  
>> question from
>> my previous post it looks like her corrected QT of 616ms is  
>> actually quite
>> high.
>>
>> This article also says "It is generally estimated that  
>> approximately 10% to
>> 12% of all patients with long QT syndrome show a normal QT-interval  
>> on their
>> ECG."  which is a little troubling in terms of exclusion criteria.   
>> They
>> also mention physical exertion and stress as being points at which  
>> high QT
>> interval people suddenly die.  I know it is common for the Bwiti to  
>> engage
>> in physical exertion (i.e. dancing) while on low doses of iboga, I  
>> wonder if
>> there have been incidences in which these people suddenly died  
>> without
>> warning.
>>
>> They also mention beta blockers as a likely treatment. Would anyone  
>> who
>> knows about these things care to conjecture what might happen if  
>> someone
>> took a beta blocker with ibogaine?
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>>
>> --
>> +27 71 687 0068
>>
>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:25:39 -0500
> From: robert charleston <robster1971 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] conference?
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<da0d2f460901191425l23cc351dj42e21e55d4dedf9 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Charles,
> thank great appreciation for  this direction.
>
> Rob C.
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Charles Rossouw
> <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Rob
>>
>> I think Dr Ken Alper will also attend.  He is actually one of the  
>> experts
>> on the medical side.
>>
>> On your question about the near fatal dose - It is not dose  
>> related, but
>> can be linked to the ECG prior to treatment.
>>
>> ANY abnormality in the ECG, and especially arrythmias and prolonged  
>> QT,
>> disqualifies a person from treatment.
>>
>> It is also really really important to have person with a medical  
>> background
>> in attendance, with plans to get an ambulance to you if a problem  
>> occurs.
>> The problem that occurs with ibogaine is called Torsade de Pointes  
>> and can
>> be treated relatively easy with Lidocaine (Lignocaine) or some  
>> substances
>> that regulate the heart rythm, so you need someone who is able to  
>> recognise
>> early onset of the problem.  Ken once said to me that it is like a  
>> symphony
>> concert, where symptoms start slowly, and then builds up to a  
>> crescendo.
>> Recognising them early is important.
>>
>> You can also try to contact Dr Udi Bastiaans - he's somewhere in  
>> Amsterdam,
>> but I don't have his email address.  I know he is on Skype.
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>  On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM, robert charleston <
>> robster1971 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> i will do my best to attend this one , i think that i m close  
>>> enough to
>>> appear and learn that much more sweet this is going well, i really  
>>> want to
>>> attend
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM, michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com 
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>>  There is a  worldwide ibogaine conference being held in Boston
>>>> sponsored by the Northeastern University chapter. It's being held  
>>>> on the
>>>> 14th, 15th,16th of February. Does anyone know if this open to the  
>>>> public. I
>>>> found it by googeling Ibogaine 2009. I'd imagine that this could  
>>>> be very
>>>> interesting and I'm starving for knowledge. Thanxs!
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> +27 71 687 0068
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:14:35 +0200
> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<5966395b0901191514t23cb8752ha364f29cb9fdf588 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> In simple terms, QT is the time the heart takes to re-charge after  
> firing,
> i.e. getting ready to give the next pump.
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:55 PM, michael langshaw <mlangshaw67 at yahoo.com 
> >wrote:
>
>>  Hi Guys,
>> Could someone tell me what QT is.  Thanks...Mike
>>
>> --- On *Mon, 1/19/09, Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>*  
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Charles Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] QT info
>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 11:39 AM
>>
>> Hi Matt
>>
>> Amiodarone can be used, although there is small possibility that it  
>> can
>> also cause prolonged QT. The problem with the seizures are that  
>> people can
>> misinterpret it as severe withdrawals, and may think to use morphine,
>> which can then become fatal.  It is important to give the personnel  
>> at the
>> hospital as much a possible information about ibogaine, and to tell
>> everybody that has contact with the patient: "NO OPIATES!"
>>
>> I agree that patients should be monitored by ECG throughout
>> treatment, although I have never done that.  Mia culpa.  I just  
>> think the
>> monitor should be on an extension in a different room, because of the
>> constant beeping, which be distractive.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Charles
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.qtsyndrome.ch/faq.html
>>>
>>> After reading this I wondered if what they are calling a "seizure- 
>>> like
>>> attack" in the article about the incident in the Netherlands, was  
>>> actually a
>>> loss of consciousness.  If it is as common as they say it is, I  
>>> imagine that
>>> unfortunately, we may be seeing more deaths.  To answer my own  
>>> question from
>>> my previous post it looks like her corrected QT of 616ms is  
>>> actually quite
>>> high.
>>>
>>> This article also says "It is generally estimated that  
>>> approximately 10%
>>> to 12% of all patients with long QT syndrome show a normal QT- 
>>> interval on
>>> their ECG."  which is a little troubling in terms of exclusion  
>>> criteria.
>>> They also mention physical exertion and stress as being points at  
>>> which high
>>> QT interval people suddenly die.  I know it is common for the  
>>> Bwiti to
>>> engage in physical exertion (i.e. dancing) while on low doses of  
>>> iboga, I
>>> wonder if there have been incidences in which these people  
>>> suddenly died
>>> without warning.
>>>
>>> They also mention beta blockers as a likely treatment. Would  
>>> anyone who
>>> knows about these things care to conjecture what might happen if  
>>> someone
>>> took a beta blocker with ibogaine?
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> +27 71 687 0068
>>
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>>
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