[Ibogaine] peyote way of God

Jeremy Spence jlspence at mac.com
Sun Jan 18 09:19:08 EST 2009


Home Doctrine The Peyote Way of Living History
A Brief History of
Peyotism and the Peyote Way Church
Detailed Chronology
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History of the
Peyote Way Church
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Peyote Way Church
by Outside Authors
& Our Responses
Andrew Weil
1987 Testimony
1988 Maloney
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Burciaga Ruling
in 1991 Boyll Case
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American Indian
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A Brief History of Peyotism
and the Peyote Way Church
by Vin Suprynowicz


Although the thornless, ground-hugging Peyote cactus grows naturally  
only in North Central Mexico and a small part of southwestern Texas,  
there is archaeological evidence that dried Peyote "buttons" were an  
item of widespread trade among the American Indians of the  
Southwestern United States as much as 1,000 years ago.

Many mind-altering plants were used by the pre-Colombian Indians for  
religious purposes, almost universally referred to as "spirit  
helpers." European conquerors were not sympathetic to such use of  
Peyote, however, any more than they were to the sacred mushrooms of  
the Mazatecs or the oliluquoy (a variety of morning glory seed) of the  
Aztecs.

The cultural gulf between the two world views is still well- 
illustrated by a single widespread misconception: Americans of  
European extraction almost universally believe that native shamans or  
"witch doctors" feed their patients hallucinogenic brews as  
"medicine." In fact, the almost-universal practice among Native  
cultures is for the doctor to ritually consume the consciousness- 
altering drugs in order to perceive, through revelation, the nature of  
the patient's illness.

Showing little interest in such distinctions, the conquistadors  
dismissed the resultant states of consciousness as mere "drunkenness,"  
called the sacramental use of the plants "witchcraft," and tried  
ruthlessly to stamp out the practice. Those sacred or revered plants  
which were not banned - like tobacco and cocoa - were debased into  
casual recreations.

Although the natural hallucinogen continued to be used - along with  
such non-chemical methods as fasting and sweat lodges - by holy men in  
private, by the early years of this century, anthropologists could  
find only one tribe where Peyote religious rituals seem to have  
survived intact from pre-conquest times: the Wixarica or "Huichol."  
However, in the late 19th century, a new and defiant religion, the  
Ghost Dance, arose among the last surviving free Indians of the  
American West. Practitioners danced at night around fires, believing  
that participation would make the warriors invulnerable to the army's  
bullets.

It didn't, and many of the surviving leaders of the Ghost Dance became  
road chiefs of the less-confrontational Peyote churches which began to  
organize on the reservations around the turn of the century,  
attempting to recapture Indian spiritualism in a non-violent form,  
organizing Peyote use into group ritual, often involving the passing  
of a bowl of Peyote tea during an all night religious ceremony,  
similar to the practice of the Huichol.

Jonathan Koshiway, a former missionary for the Reorganized Church of  
Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, was one of the leaders of the Oto  
Church of the First Born, which in 1914 became the first of several  
Peyote churches seeking legal incorporation. Koshiway saw no conflict  
between Christian doctrine and Peyote use. Koshiway eventually split  
from the Oto Church over its use of tobacco, and became one of the  
founders of the Native American Church in 1918. All-night meetings of  
the Native American Church, considered by adherents to represent an  
"Indian version of Christianity," are generally held on Saturdays,  
with members partaking of the hallucinogenic sacrament under the  
guidance of experienced "road chiefs."

The federal government recognizes the use of Peyote by members of the  
NAC, but grants this exception to the Drug Abuse Control Act of 1965 -  
which lists Peyote as a Schedule 1 "narcotic" - only for those who can  
prove 25 percent Indian blood, putting government in the odd position  
of allowing selective degrees of religious freedom based on racial  
bloodlines.

Reverend Immanuel Pardeahtan Trujillo, who had joined the NAC in 1948,  
was central among prominent members of the church who objected to the  
government's imposition of this racial exclusivity. Trujillo, son of a  
French mother and San Carlos Apache father, was raised by an adoptive  
family in New Jersey. Although Trujillo himself is 50 percent Indian,  
his children are only of 25 percent Indian blood. He testified in  
court in a Dallas Federal court in 1982 that he feared his  
grandchildren could "be barred from the church and from partaking of  
the sacrament" despite his teachings. Thus, Trujillo became a founding  
member of the "all-race group" within the NAC, consisting mostly of  
Korean veterans, in the mid-1960s. But the church quickly responded to  
political pressure and revoked the charter of the all-race group.  
Trujillo left the NAC in 1966, establishing a church that would  
eventually evolve into the Peyote Way Church of God.


Trujillo purchased the 160-acre Peaceful Valley Ranch in the isolated  
Aravaipa Valley in Southeastern Arizona in 1970, on the "backside" of  
one of the Apaches' most striking sacred sites, Mount Graham. In 1977,  
the Peyote Way Church of God was founded at the ranch by Trujillo,  
Right Sister Anne L. Zapf, and Rabbi Matthew S. Kent, for the specific  
purpose of "stewarding, ingesting, distributing and growing the Holy  
Sacrament Peyote as the essential and inseparable part" of the  
members' religious beliefs.

Much of the dietary doctrine of the Peyote Way Church is drawn from  
Mormonism, and particularly from Section 89 of the Doctrine and  
Covenants of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ  
of Latter Day Saints, which Church members interpret as prohibiting  
alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, and foods containing white sugar or white  
flour, as well as sharply restricting the use of meat to "times of  
famine and excess hunger."

Church members see no conflict between Smith's "Word of Wisdom" and  
the ingestion of Peyote, since they distinguish between the casual,  
unsanctified use of purified pharmaceutical "drugs" and the ingestion  
of whole complex plants like the Peyote cactus in the pursuit of  
spiritual enlightenment. In fact, Smith's Word of Wisdom specifically  
states "Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the  
season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving."

Joseph Smith taught that the Christian canon was incomplete and thus  
necessitated the reopening of the "windows of heaven." He also taught  
that it was the ability to "comprehend by the inspiration of Almighty  
God," which distinguishes the human from the beast. The Peyote Way  
Church of God teaches that direct religious revelation remains  
available to anyone who seeks it, and is directly beneficial providing  
it is sought in the right spirit.

On Jan 18, 2009, at 8:03 AM, ibogaine-request at mindvox.com wrote:

> Send Ibogaine mailing list submissions to
> 	ibogaine at mindvox.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	ibogaine-request at mindvox.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	ibogaine-owner at mindvox.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ibogaine digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 57 (robert charleston)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:02:48 -0500
> From: robert charleston <robster1971 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 57
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<da0d2f460901180602p9080104m17e781bc971d8251 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> thanks just curious? rc
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com 
> >wrote:
>
>>                No Rob, it's usually just the other way around. Most  
>> people
>> have that pink cloud thing going for a while after a treatment.
>>
>>             Randy
>>
>>  On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 7:30 AM, robert charleston <
>> robster1971 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> does more irratabity come about from treatment? rob c.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:27 AM, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk 
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>> J' its OK man; its best to just ignore things like this otherwise  
>>>> you
>>>> are giving them exactly what they want; attention.
>>>>
>>>> You also dont know who you are dealing with; you could have a  
>>>> bipolar
>>>> schizophrenic; (No disrespect). They also have their right to  
>>>> freedom of
>>>> speech.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Jeremy Spence <jlspence at mac.com>
>>>> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, 18 January, 2009 13:02:05
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 57
>>>>
>>>> WHO THE FUCK HAS A PROBLEM WITH SIMON, IF THEY HAVE A PROBLEM  
>>>> WITH SIMOM
>>>> THEY GOT A PROBLEM WITH ME TOO!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> YOU FUCK OFFF
>>>> On Jan 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, ibogaine-request at mindvox.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Send Ibogaine mailing list submissions to
>>>>>    ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>    http://www.mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>>    ibogaine-request at mindvox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>    ibogaine-owner at mindvox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more  
>>>>> specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Ibogaine digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Re: Similarities with Psilosybin and Ibogaine (simon loxton)
>>>>> 2. Re: RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls (simon loxton)
>>>>> 3. Re: RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls (Jasen C)
>>>>> 4. Re: RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls (simon loxton)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:02:19 +0000 (GMT)
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Similarities with Psilosybin and Ibogaine
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Message-ID:  
>>>>> <591613.91287.qm at web28605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com<591613.91287..qm at web28605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com 
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> I was going to suggest he leave his mothers PC alone and stick  
>>>>> with the
>>>> play station but did not want to aggravate his condition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Capt Kirk <captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 9:59:43
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Similarities with Psilosybin and Ibogaine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, ok and you are?  And what's your site so I know never ever  
>>>>> ever
>>>> ever to visit it? Not that I believe in hell
>>>> anyway.......................................
>>>>> Love these charming emails.....
>>>>> Unless I missing something................wtf?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: s james <niknox at shaw.ca>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>> listen simon you appear more than most cockroach infestations  
>>>>> fuck off
>>>> from my site or hell you invite
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <
>>>> http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090118/b836f2c0/attachment-0001.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:03:27 +0000 (GMT)
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Message-ID: <76138.35638.qm at web28616.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> I get what you mean though; iboga is very good on the psycho- 
>>>>> spiritual
>>>> side; its just that iboga is more difficult to work with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo..com.au<jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au 
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 10:56:36
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree Iboga works well for addiction I was given Iboga 5 years  
>>>>> ago
>>>> for a 23 year methadone habit and I have seen it work on many  
>>>> other people.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 6:23:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was referring to root bark when I said iboga. I find iboga  
>>>>> works very
>>>> well for addiction; ask Matt for one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think ibogaine is just a hell of a lot easier which is why I  
>>>>> like it
>>>> for addiction interruption; especially for opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 8:34:50
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon,
>>>>>
>>>>> You may be talking about another iboga extract not Indra, if you  
>>>>> took
>>>> 10grams of the Indra it would blow your top, break the head  
>>>> completely open
>>>> in most cases and stop withdrawal completely. I have seen people  
>>>> have a lot
>>>> less than 10 grams, more like 4 to 7grams of Indra and it has  
>>>> worked
>>>> beautifully.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I am sure you would know, the Indra was made many years ago  
>>>>> ( a few
>>>> dozen kilo's) and is the only known proven extract where the  
>>>> content of
>>>> Ibogaine is known so a dose can be correctly measured.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sara in Amsterdam does this very well and is the only source of  
>>>>> Indra
>>>> that I know of. We need her back on the list
>>>>>
>>>>> With opiate withdrawal a flood dose then a booster dose seems to  
>>>>> work
>>>> well with Ibogaine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I saw someone the other day who had 5 grams of Indra Extract for  
>>>>> psycho
>>>> spiritual. Seems to be much smoother than Ibogaine, maybe the other
>>>> alkaloids play a part that science has not been able to measure  
>>>> yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ibogaine seems to work better for addiction as it coats the  
>>>>> receptors
>>>> better however I believe Iboga is better for psycho spiritual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jasen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 3:46:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well are you referring to ibogaine (an extract) or what was  
>>>>> known as
>>>> indra?
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you are referring to opiate withdrawal but its more  
>>>>> common to
>>>> give lower doses over an extended period of time for meth and  
>>>> coke; Rocky
>>>> came up with a good protocol like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I have never experimented with the least you would  
>>>>> need to
>>>> keep withdrawal from opiates at bay. I would not want to put the  
>>>> patient in
>>>> an uncomfortable position by doing this. Saying so; 5-10g of  
>>>> iboga is enough
>>>> to keep withdrawal at bay for up to 12 hrs. This is about all I  
>>>> can offer
>>>> from experience; I would only be guessing or using some one elses
>>>> information in terms of an extract or ibogaine in a minimal dose  
>>>> and I cant
>>>> think of any off hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lowest I have used ibogaine wise for opiates is 16mg/kg but  
>>>>> prefer
>>>> to work between 17 and 20 mg/kg.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally I prefer a single dose followed up by low doses for  
>>>>> opiates
>>>> so there is no discomfort.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: DC from AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 January, 2009 19:29:26
>>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone know what a non-initiation, medical only RX script might  
>>>>> say
>>>>> for low dose usage of Iboga extract for relief of withdrawls.
>>>>>
>>>>> are we there yet ?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.drogriporter.hu/en/ibogainesession.
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Don zo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace..."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: michael langshaw
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what my shrink did to me with this suboxone shit. I went  
>>>>> int his
>>>> office, told him how much I was using and he wrote me out a  
>>>> script and sent
>>>> me on my way. Nice guy. I got no one to blame but myself. I was  
>>>> capable of
>>>> researching it........Sorry, just a little venting there.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>>>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:37 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> Reading the info. reminded me of the movie, *Jacobs Ladder* from  
>>>>> early
>>>>> 90's, where the US Army experimented with BZ Gas on active duty
>>>> personal
>>>>> during Vietnam.  A Very strange but interesting movie, for those  
>>>>> that
>>>>> haven't seen it yet.  Seems pretty low to give someone a mind  
>>>>> altering
>>>>> substance without them even knowing.
>>>>> --Edward
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
>>>>> inbox.
>>>> Take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
>>>>> inbox.
>>>> Take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <
>>>> http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090118/9f486976/attachment-0001.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:43:34 -0800 (PST)
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Message-ID: <610555.48729.qm at web59616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes your right. Iboga is more difficult to work with unless of  
>>>>> course
>>>> you know the Iboga you are working with (content of Ibogaine)  
>>>> such as the
>>>> Indra?extract Sara works with. Then you can dose with confidence  
>>>> that the
>>>> client gets what they need.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen Sara dose people with addictions and for psycho  
>>>>> spiritual
>>>> with her Iboga extract?with great results.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your comment that Ibogaine is easier to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jasen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 7:03:27 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I get what you mean though; iboga is very good on the psycho- 
>>>>> spiritual
>>>> side; its just that iboga is more difficult to work with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 10:56:36
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree Iboga works well for addiction I was given Iboga 5 years  
>>>>> ago
>>>> for a 23 year methadone habit and I have seen it work on many  
>>>> other people.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co..uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 6:23:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was referring to root bark when I said iboga. I find iboga  
>>>>> works very
>>>> well for addiction; ask Matt for one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think ibogaine is just a hell of a lot easier which is why I  
>>>>> like it
>>>> for addiction interruption; especially for opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 8:34:50
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon,
>>>>>
>>>>> You may be talking about another iboga extract not Indra, if you  
>>>>> took
>>>> 10grams of the Indra?it would blow your top, break the head  
>>>> completely open
>>>> in most cases and stop withdrawal completely. I have seen people  
>>>> have a lot
>>>> less than 10 grams, more like 4 to 7grams of Indra and it has  
>>>> worked
>>>> beautifully.
>>>>>
>>>>> As?I am sure you would know, the Indra was made many years ago  
>>>>> ( a few
>>>> dozen kilo's)?and is the only known proven extract where the  
>>>> content of
>>>> Ibogaine is known?so a dose can be correctly measured.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sara in Amsterdam does this very well and is the only source of  
>>>>> Indra
>>>> that I know of. We need her back on the list
>>>>>
>>>>> With opiate withdrawal a flood dose then a booster dose seems to  
>>>>> work
>>>> well with Ibogaine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I saw someone the other day who had 5 grams of Indra Extract for  
>>>>> psycho
>>>> spiritual. Seems to be much smoother than Ibogaine, maybe the other
>>>> alkaloids play a part that science has not been able to measure  
>>>> yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ibogaine seems to work better for addiction as it coats the  
>>>>> receptors
>>>> better however I believe Iboga is better for psycho spiritual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jasen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 3:46:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well are you referring to ibogaine (an extract) or what was  
>>>>> known as
>>>> indra?
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you are referring to opiate withdrawal but its more  
>>>>> common to
>>>> give lower doses over an extended period of time for meth and  
>>>> coke; Rocky
>>>> came up with a good protocol like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I have never experimented with the least you would  
>>>>> need to
>>>> keep withdrawal from opiates at bay. I would not want to put the  
>>>> patient in
>>>> an uncomfortable position by doing this. Saying so; 5-10g of  
>>>> iboga is enough
>>>> to keep withdrawal at bay for up to 12 hrs. This is about all I  
>>>> can offer
>>>> from experience; I would only be guessing or using some one elses
>>>> information in terms of an extract or ibogaine in a minimal dose  
>>>> and I cant
>>>> think of any off hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lowest I have used ibogaine wise for opiates is 16mg/kg but  
>>>>> prefer
>>>> to work between 17 and 20 mg/kg.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally I prefer a single dose followed up by low doses for  
>>>>> opiates
>>>> so there is no discomfort.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: DC from AZ <dcollier9 at cox..net>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 January, 2009 19:29:26
>>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone know what a non-initiation, medical only RX script might  
>>>>> say
>>>>> for low dose usage of Iboga extract for relief of withdrawls.
>>>>> ?
>>>>> are we there yet ?
>>>>> ?
>>>>> http://www.drogriporter.hu/en/ibogainesession.
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Don zo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace..."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: michael langshaw
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what my shrink did to me with this suboxone shit. I went  
>>>>> int
>>>> his?office, told him how much I was using and he wrote me out a  
>>>> script and
>>>> sent me on my way.?Nice guy. I got no one to blame but myself. I  
>>>> was capable
>>>> of researching it.......Sorry, just a little venting there.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>>>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:37 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> Reading the info. reminded me of the movie, *Jacobs Ladder* from  
>>>>> early
>>>>> 90's, where the US Army experimented with BZ Gas on active duty
>>>> personal
>>>>> during Vietnam.  A Very strange but interesting movie, for those  
>>>>> that
>>>>> haven't seen it yet.  Seems pretty low to give someone a mind  
>>>>> altering
>>>>> substance without them even knowing.
>>>>> --Edward
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>>>>> ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>>>>> ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
>>>>> inbox.
>>>> Take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
>>>>> inbox.
>>>> Take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
>>>> inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <
>>>> http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090118/3d9a5be4/attachment-0001.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:53:34 +0000 (GMT)
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Message-ID: <742836.608.qm at web28610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes; its really knowing your product; and having a constant in  
>>>>> terms of
>>>> quality. Ibogaine is more predictable in this respect.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 11:43:34
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes your right. Iboga is more difficult to work with unless of  
>>>>> course
>>>> you know the Iboga you are working with (content of Ibogaine)  
>>>> such as the
>>>> Indra extract Sara works with. Then you can dose with confidence  
>>>> that the
>>>> client gets what they need.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen Sara dose people with addictions and for psycho  
>>>>> spiritual
>>>> with her Iboga extract with great results.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your comment that Ibogaine is easier to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jasen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 7:03:27 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I get what you mean though; iboga is very good on the psycho- 
>>>>> spiritual
>>>> side; its just that iboga is more difficult to work with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 10:56:36
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree Iboga works well for addiction I was given Iboga 5 years  
>>>>> ago
>>>> for a 23 year methadone habit and I have seen it work on many  
>>>> other people.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 6:23:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was referring to root bark when I said iboga.. I find iboga  
>>>>> works
>>>> very well for addiction; ask Matt for one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think ibogaine is just a hell of a lot easier which is why I  
>>>>> like it
>>>> for addiction interruption; especially for opiates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 8:34:50
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Simon,
>>>>>
>>>>> You may be talking about another iboga extract not Indra, if you  
>>>>> took
>>>> 10grams of the Indra it would blow your top, break the head  
>>>> completely open
>>>> in most cases and stop withdrawal completely. I have seen people  
>>>> have a lot
>>>> less than 10 grams, more like 4 to 7grams of Indra and it has  
>>>> worked
>>>> beautifully.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I am sure you would know, the Indra was made many years ago  
>>>>> ( a few
>>>> dozen kilo's) and is the only known proven extract where the  
>>>> content of
>>>> Ibogaine is known so a dose can be correctly measured.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sara in Amsterdam does this very well and is the only source of  
>>>>> Indra
>>>> that I know of. We need her back on the list
>>>>>
>>>>> With opiate withdrawal a flood dose then a booster dose seems to  
>>>>> work
>>>> well with Ibogaine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I saw someone the other day who had 5 grams of Indra Extract for  
>>>>> psycho
>>>> spiritual. Seems to be much smoother than Ibogaine, maybe the other
>>>> alkaloids play a part that science has not been able to measure  
>>>> yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ibogaine seems to work better for addiction as it coats the  
>>>>> receptors
>>>> better however I believe Iboga is better for psycho spiritual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jasen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 3:46:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well are you referring to ibogaine (an extract) or what was  
>>>>> known as
>>>> indra?
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you are referring to opiate withdrawal but its more  
>>>>> common to
>>>> give lower doses over an extended period of time for meth and  
>>>> coke; Rocky
>>>> came up with a good protocol like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I have never experimented with the least you would  
>>>>> need to
>>>> keep withdrawal from opiates at bay. I would not want to put the  
>>>> patient in
>>>> an uncomfortable position by doing this. Saying so; 5-10g of  
>>>> iboga is enough
>>>> to keep withdrawal at bay for up to 12 hrs. This is about all I  
>>>> can offer
>>>> from experience; I would only be guessing or using some one elses
>>>> information in terms of an extract or ibogaine in a minimal dose  
>>>> and I cant
>>>> think of any off hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lowest I have used ibogaine wise for opiates is 16mg/kg but  
>>>>> prefer
>>>> to work between 17 and 20 mg/kg.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally I prefer a single dose followed up by low doses for  
>>>>> opiates
>>>> so there is no discomfort.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: DC from AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 January, 2009 19:29:26
>>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone know what a non-initiation, medical only RX script might  
>>>>> say
>>>>> for low dose usage of Iboga extract for relief of withdrawls.
>>>>>
>>>>> are we there yet ?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.drogriporter.hu/en/ibogainesession..
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Don zo
>>>>> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace..."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: michael langshaw
>>>>> To: The Ibogaine List
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what my shrink did to me with this suboxone shit. I went  
>>>>> int his
>>>> office, told him how much I was using and he wrote me out a  
>>>> script and sent
>>>> me on my way. Nice guy. I got no one to blame but myself. I was  
>>>> capable of
>>>> researching it.......Sorry, just a little venting there.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>>>>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:37 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> Reading the info. reminded me of the movie, *Jacobs Ladder* from  
>>>>> early
>>>>> 90's, where the US Army experimented with BZ Gas on active duty
>>>> personal
>>>>> during Vietnam.  A Very strange but interesting movie, for those  
>>>>> that
>>>>> haven't seen it yet.  Seems pretty low to give someone a mind  
>>>>> altering
>>>>> substance without them even knowing.
>>>>> --Edward
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox..com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine<http://mindvox..com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine 
>>>>> >::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
>>>>> inbox.
>>>> Take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
>>>>> inbox.
>>>> Take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
>>>>> inbox.
>>>> Take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <
>>>> http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090118/6c8edd87/attachment.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -=[) :::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> End of Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 57
>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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>>
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>
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> ****************************************

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