[Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 13, Issue 57

Jeremy Spence jlspence at mac.com
Sun Jan 18 06:02:05 EST 2009


WHO THE FUCK HAS A PROBLEM WITH SIMON, IF THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH  
SIMOM THEY GOT A PROBLEM WITH ME TOO!!


YOU FUCK OFFF
On Jan 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, ibogaine-request at mindvox.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Similarities with Psilosybin and Ibogaine (simon loxton)
>   2. Re: RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls (simon loxton)
>   3. Re: RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls (Jasen C)
>   4. Re: RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls (simon loxton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:02:19 +0000 (GMT)
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Similarities with Psilosybin and Ibogaine
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID: <591613.91287.qm at web28605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I was going to suggest he leave his mothers PC alone and stick with  
> the play station but did not want to aggravate his condition.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Capt Kirk <captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 9:59:43
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Similarities with Psilosybin and Ibogaine
>
>
> Um, ok and you are?  And what's your site so I know never ever ever  
> ever to visit it? Not that I believe in hell  
> anyway.......................................
> Love these charming emails.....
> Unless I missing something................wtf?
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: s james <niknox at shaw.ca>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>
> ?
> listen simon you appear more than most cockroach infestations fuck  
> off from my site or hell you invite
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090118/b836f2c0/attachment-0001.htm 
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:03:27 +0000 (GMT)
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID: <76138.35638.qm at web28616.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I get what you mean though; iboga is very good on the psycho- 
> spiritual side; its just that iboga is more difficult to work with
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 10:56:36
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
> I agree Iboga works well for addiction I was given Iboga 5 years ago  
> for a 23 year methadone habit and I have seen it work on many other  
> people.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 6:23:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> I was referring to root bark when I said iboga. I find iboga works  
> very well for addiction; ask Matt for one.
>
> I think ibogaine is just a hell of a lot easier which is why I like  
> it for addiction interruption; especially for opiates.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 8:34:50
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
> You may be talking about another iboga extract not Indra, if you  
> took 10grams of the Indra it would blow your top, break the head  
> completely open in most cases and stop withdrawal completely. I have  
> seen people have a lot less than 10 grams, more like 4 to 7grams of  
> Indra and it has worked beautifully.
>
> As I am sure you would know, the Indra was made many years ago ( a  
> few dozen kilo's) and is the only known proven extract where the  
> content of Ibogaine is known so a dose can be correctly measured.
>
> Sara in Amsterdam does this very well and is the only source of  
> Indra that I know of. We need her back on the list
>
> With opiate withdrawal a flood dose then a booster dose seems to  
> work well with Ibogaine.
>
> I saw someone the other day who had 5 grams of Indra Extract for  
> psycho spiritual. Seems to be much smoother than Ibogaine, maybe the  
> other alkaloids play a part that science has not been able to  
> measure yet.
>
> Ibogaine seems to work better for addiction as it coats the  
> receptors better however I believe Iboga is better for psycho  
> spiritual.
>
> Jasen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 3:46:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Well are you referring to ibogaine (an extract) or what was known as  
> indra?
>
> I guess you are referring to opiate withdrawal but its more common  
> to give lower doses over an extended period of time for meth and  
> coke; Rocky came up with a good protocol like this.
>
> Personally I have never experimented with the least you would need  
> to keep withdrawal from opiates at bay. I would not want to put the  
> patient in an uncomfortable position by doing this. Saying so; 5-10g  
> of iboga is enough to keep withdrawal at bay for up to 12 hrs. This  
> is about all I can offer from experience; I would only be guessing  
> or using some one elses information in terms of an extract or  
> ibogaine in a minimal dose and I cant think of any off hand.
>
> The lowest I have used ibogaine wise for opiates is 16mg/kg but  
> prefer to work between 17 and 20 mg/kg.
>
> Generally I prefer a single dose followed up by low doses for  
> opiates so there is no discomfort.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: DC from AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, 17 January, 2009 19:29:26
> Subject: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Anyone know what a non-initiation, medical only RX script might say
> for low dose usage of Iboga extract for relief of withdrawls.
>
> are we there yet ?
>
> http://www.drogriporter.hu/en/ibogainesession.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Don zo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace..."
> __________________________________________________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: michael langshaw
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>
> That's what my shrink did to me with this suboxone shit. I went int  
> his office, told him how much I was using and he wrote me out a  
> script and sent me on my way. Nice guy. I got no one to blame but  
> myself. I was capable of researching it.......Sorry, just a little  
> venting there.
> Mike
>
> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
> From: Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:37 PM
>
>
> Scott,
>
> Reading the info. reminded me of the movie, *Jacobs Ladder* from early
> 90's, where the US Army experimented with BZ Gas on active duty  
> personal
> during Vietnam.  A Very strange but interesting movie, for those that
> haven't seen it yet.  Seems pretty low to give someone a mind altering
> substance without them even knowing.
> -- 
> Edward
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> ________________________________
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> ________________________________
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.  
> Take a look.
>
> ________________________________
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.  
> Take a look.
>
>
>
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> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090118/9f486976/attachment-0001.htm 
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:43:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID: <610555.48729.qm at web59616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello Simon
>
> Yes your right. Iboga is more difficult to work with unless of  
> course you know the Iboga you are working with (content of Ibogaine)  
> such as the Indra?extract Sara works with. Then you can dose with  
> confidence that the client gets what they need.
>
> I have seen Sara dose people with addictions and for psycho  
> spiritual with her Iboga extract?with great results.
>
> I understand your comment that Ibogaine is easier to work with.
>
> Jasen
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 7:03:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> I get what you mean though; iboga is very good on the psycho- 
> spiritual side; its just that iboga is more difficult to work with
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 10:56:36
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
> I agree Iboga works well for addiction I was given Iboga 5 years ago  
> for a 23 year methadone habit and I have seen it work on many other  
> people.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co..uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 6:23:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> I was referring to root bark when I said iboga. I find iboga works  
> very well for addiction; ask Matt for one.
>
> I think ibogaine is just a hell of a lot easier which is why I like  
> it for addiction interruption; especially for opiates.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 8:34:50
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
> You may be talking about another iboga extract not Indra, if you  
> took 10grams of the Indra?it would blow your top, break the head  
> completely open in most cases and stop withdrawal completely. I have  
> seen people have a lot less than 10 grams, more like 4 to 7grams of  
> Indra and it has worked beautifully.
>
> As?I am sure you would know, the Indra was made many years ago ( a  
> few dozen kilo's)?and is the only known proven extract where the  
> content of Ibogaine is known?so a dose can be correctly measured.
>
> Sara in Amsterdam does this very well and is the only source of  
> Indra that I know of. We need her back on the list
>
> With opiate withdrawal a flood dose then a booster dose seems to  
> work well with Ibogaine.
>
> I saw someone the other day who had 5 grams of Indra Extract for  
> psycho spiritual. Seems to be much smoother than Ibogaine, maybe the  
> other alkaloids play a part that science has not been able to  
> measure yet.
>
> Ibogaine seems to work better for addiction as it coats the  
> receptors better however I believe Iboga is better for psycho  
> spiritual.
>
> Jasen
>
>
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 3:46:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Well are you referring to ibogaine (an extract) or what was known as  
> indra?
>
> I guess you are referring to opiate withdrawal but its more common  
> to give lower doses over an extended period of time for meth and  
> coke; Rocky came up with a good protocol like this.
>
> Personally I have never experimented with the least you would need  
> to keep withdrawal from opiates at bay. I would not want to put the  
> patient in an uncomfortable position by doing this. Saying so; 5-10g  
> of iboga is enough to keep withdrawal at bay for up to 12 hrs. This  
> is about all I can offer from experience; I would only be guessing  
> or using some one elses information in terms of an extract or  
> ibogaine in a minimal dose and I cant think of any off hand.
>
> The lowest I have used ibogaine wise for opiates is 16mg/kg but  
> prefer to work between 17 and 20 mg/kg.
>
> Generally I prefer a single dose followed up by low doses for  
> opiates so there is no discomfort.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: DC from AZ <dcollier9 at cox..net>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, 17 January, 2009 19:29:26
> Subject: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Anyone know what a non-initiation, medical only RX script might say
> for low dose usage of Iboga extract for relief of withdrawls.
> ?
> are we there yet ?
> ?
> http://www.drogriporter.hu/en/ibogainesession.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Don zo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace..."
> __________________________________________________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: michael langshaw
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>
> That's what my shrink did to me with this suboxone shit. I went int  
> his?office, told him how much I was using and he wrote me out a  
> script and sent me on my way.?Nice guy. I got no one to blame but  
> myself. I was capable of researching it.......Sorry, just a little  
> venting there.
> Mike
>
> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
> From: Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:37 PM
>
>
> Scott,
>
> Reading the info. reminded me of the movie, *Jacobs Ladder* from early
> 90's, where the US Army experimented with BZ Gas on active duty  
> personal
> during Vietnam.  A Very strange but interesting movie, for those that
> haven't seen it yet.  Seems pretty low to give someone a mind altering
> substance without them even knowing.
> -- 
> Edward
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
> ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> ________________________________
>
> ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
> ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
> ________________________________
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.  
> Take a look.
>
> ________________________________
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.  
> Take a look.
>
>
>
>      Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter  
> inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20090118/3d9a5be4/attachment-0001.htm 
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:53:34 +0000 (GMT)
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID: <742836.608.qm at web28610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Yes; its really knowing your product; and having a constant in terms  
> of quality. Ibogaine is more predictable in this respect.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 11:43:34
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Hello Simon
>
> Yes your right. Iboga is more difficult to work with unless of  
> course you know the Iboga you are working with (content of Ibogaine)  
> such as the Indra extract Sara works with. Then you can dose with  
> confidence that the client gets what they need.
>
> I have seen Sara dose people with addictions and for psycho  
> spiritual with her Iboga extract with great results.
>
> I understand your comment that Ibogaine is easier to work with.
>
> Jasen
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 7:03:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> I get what you mean though; iboga is very good on the psycho- 
> spiritual side; its just that iboga is more difficult to work with
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 10:56:36
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
> I agree Iboga works well for addiction I was given Iboga 5 years ago  
> for a 23 year methadone habit and I have seen it work on many other  
> people.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 6:23:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> I was referring to root bark when I said iboga. I find iboga works  
> very well for addiction; ask Matt for one.
>
> I think ibogaine is just a hell of a lot easier which is why I like  
> it for addiction interruption; especially for opiates.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasen C <jasenhappy2008 at yahoo.com.au>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 8:34:50
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
> You may be talking about another iboga extract not Indra, if you  
> took 10grams of the Indra it would blow your top, break the head  
> completely open in most cases and stop withdrawal completely. I have  
> seen people have a lot less than 10 grams, more like 4 to 7grams of  
> Indra and it has worked beautifully.
>
> As I am sure you would know, the Indra was made many years ago ( a  
> few dozen kilo's) and is the only known proven extract where the  
> content of Ibogaine is known so a dose can be correctly measured.
>
> Sara in Amsterdam does this very well and is the only source of  
> Indra that I know of. We need her back on the list
>
> With opiate withdrawal a flood dose then a booster dose seems to  
> work well with Ibogaine.
>
> I saw someone the other day who had 5 grams of Indra Extract for  
> psycho spiritual. Seems to be much smoother than Ibogaine, maybe the  
> other alkaloids play a part that science has not been able to  
> measure yet.
>
> Ibogaine seems to work better for addiction as it coats the  
> receptors better however I believe Iboga is better for psycho  
> spiritual.
>
> Jasen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 January, 2009 3:46:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Well are you referring to ibogaine (an extract) or what was known as  
> indra?
>
> I guess you are referring to opiate withdrawal but its more common  
> to give lower doses over an extended period of time for meth and  
> coke; Rocky came up with a good protocol like this.
>
> Personally I have never experimented with the least you would need  
> to keep withdrawal from opiates at bay. I would not want to put the  
> patient in an uncomfortable position by doing this. Saying so; 5-10g  
> of iboga is enough to keep withdrawal at bay for up to 12 hrs. This  
> is about all I can offer from experience; I would only be guessing  
> or using some one elses information in terms of an extract or  
> ibogaine in a minimal dose and I cant think of any off hand.
>
> The lowest I have used ibogaine wise for opiates is 16mg/kg but  
> prefer to work between 17 and 20 mg/kg.
>
> Generally I prefer a single dose followed up by low doses for  
> opiates so there is no discomfort.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: DC from AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, 17 January, 2009 19:29:26
> Subject: [Ibogaine] RX Iboga Extract for Withdrawls
>
>
> Anyone know what a non-initiation, medical only RX script might say
> for low dose usage of Iboga extract for relief of withdrawls.
>
> are we there yet ?
>
> http://www.drogriporter.hu/en/ibogainesession.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Don zo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace..."
> __________________________________________________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: michael langshaw
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
>
> That's what my shrink did to me with this suboxone shit. I went int  
> his office, told him how much I was using and he wrote me out a  
> script and sent me on my way. Nice guy. I got no one to blame but  
> myself. I was capable of researching it.......Sorry, just a little  
> venting there.
> Mike
>
> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
> From: Edward A. Weissbard <edward.escs at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CIA drug abuse
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:37 PM
>
>
> Scott,
>
> Reading the info. reminded me of the movie, *Jacobs Ladder* from early
> 90's, where the US Army experimented with BZ Gas on active duty  
> personal
> during Vietnam.  A Very strange but interesting movie, for those that
> haven't seen it yet.  Seems pretty low to give someone a mind altering
> substance without them even knowing.
> -- 
> Edward
>
>
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