From JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM  Thu May  1 11:41:31 2008
From: JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM (LEE)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:41:31 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here
References: <875030.30882.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV5483806406F3FA2C989C0A9DB0@phx.gbl>


shelley,
thanks..
in some ways its worse and some ways better. benzos are great for the initial panic you feel when detoxing, but I don't love them... ill get an initial prescription to help with withdrawl, and then refill it so I have some around for times when I get panicky and cant stop it...  the only withdrawl symptoms ive had this time was some bone pain.. but I can live with that.. it's the chills I hate.. the goose pimples... ukkkk.... that's what kills me... I don't have pain issues, I just have an iffinity for pain meds... lol... I done ibo twice and its taken some time, but I don't have any urge to use at all, even to take away the bone pain I feel at nights... I just imagine I worked hard and its like muscle pain... 
lee

specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: shelley krupa<mailto:skrupa20022002 at yahoo.com> 
  To: The Ibogaine List<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here


  Hi Lee,sorry my response time is so slow,I often work in rehab setting where we use sub initially,along w/ the clonidine,neurontin ( if pain is an issue)antidepressants,antispasmotics for the gut & antiinflammatories,it can & does work,its a much harder way to go than ibogaine though,isnt it?The best part about the ibo was the craving vacation,which I never experienced the medical route.Recently I had been on pain killers for a few things medical & have had some minor withdrawal,surely not like a full fledged run,but nevertheless-I can feel it.I tried the use of kratom,as I heard it helps with the opiate receptor site absence,but it was compelling too ,& I ended up flushing it.I have always required the use of sleepers while detoxing,but since I dont have an affinity for benzos,it is ok for me.I admire your strength to start over ,keep it up-shell

  LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM> wrote: 
    ??? 
    simon
    nothing to worry about.. my back hurts, but that??Ts because I don??Tt do my situps... lol.... its nothing... I don??Tt get pain meds at all ever from doc's, ive told them im a user... I buy from the street cause I like them... I got on a new anti depressant, and right now I don??Tt want anything to do with opiates...
    ive stopped taking the xanex and all I take is the neurontin for the withdrawls from the sub.  my doctor gave me cymbalta (sic??) and it has worked great... I have never felt like this... I don??Tt want to just die and I don??Tt hate everyone.. my daughter loves how im acting now... I care, I have feelings, and I can even cry... the issues I have are sexual and physical abuse from my parents, and drug and alcohol and tobacco and pot and lsd and mushrooms and such that I started to take at 14 years old, to help me deal with the pain of my life... I started having black outs from drinking within weeks of my starting drinking.... right now, I have the least amount of chemicals in my body ive ever had... I took a gram of ibogaine  last may, to get off of a light lortab addiction that my dentist gave me... he didn??Tt even ask, and I couldn??Tt say no... ive told my doc im a opiate abuser, and ive told my dentist, and im close to getting a wrist bracelet stating that I don??Tt want opiates in my body for any reason.. like a medical bracelet.... but I didn??Tt stop using with that one gram, but I did stop smoking and drinking from then, and Ive never had a craving... ive been a full on drunk since 14 and im 33 so that was amazing... ive got to get something to eat, so im out.... 
    lee

    specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

    if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: simon loxton<mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> 
      To: The Ibogaine List<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
      Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here


      So Lee; do you also suffer from pain issues? I have just been in touch with a lot of people in the states who have had pain problems or still do; but the doctors are quiet free in their prescribing pain medications which leads to a rather expensive habit. 



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>
      To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 2:12:13 AM
      Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here

      ??? 

      neurontin is usally taken in doses of 1200 mg and up... I was on like 2-4 mg of suboxone a day (a quarter to a half of a big 8mg pill) and I take 900mg three times a day and I feel fine.... for the first couple days I feel really good... like Im in a warm fuzzy blanket... with colonidine I was in alaska in fairbanks, and it was -40 to-60 degrees fairinhight and I didn??Tt have any signs of withdrawls... no shivers or anything... the generic name for neurontin Is gabafatamin (ill go get the bottle and spell it right) its gabapentin that??Ts the correct spelling.... im only taking a little because I tapered down as far as I can.. but large amounts of neurontin work great for at least a 3-6 balloon a day habit.... that??Ts what I was doing... anyway.. that??Ts what I know.. the colonidine really helps when it??Ts the worst... since I tapered down, I didn??Tt think ineeded the colonidine...
      lee
      specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

      if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: simon loxton<mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> 
        To: The Ibogaine List<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
        Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:30 PM
        Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here


        I have never heard of them; what is the prescribed method of taking them for addiction? I have not had time to even look it up so I dont know what neurotonon is yet. Any information on what works for withdrawal from opiates is interesting; to me anyway. Thanks Lee I hope to get some more information and will look into what information I can find on my own. Cheers! 



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>
        To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 11:42:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here


        personally I think the neurontin is the best... I don??Tt kwow the best dose... its high tho... the colonidine is an extra niceness.... id take plain neurontin any day... colonidine helps tons,but the neurontin is what takes care of my withdrawls 98% if I remember to take them througout the day.... 
        junky

        specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

        if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: Matt Shriver<mailto:ibogamail at gmail.com> 
          To: The Ibogaine List<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
          Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:57 PM
          Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here


          I have used clonadine for withdrawal before and it helped, but not a lot.  I had that and something that I think started with a B for the stomach cramps and some weak assed benzo.  I went through withdrawals that way twice and it still sucked.  Never tried that neurontin stuff though.

          Matt


          LEE wrote: 

            did this question piss people off?? is it something im not supposed to bring up??? hmm... havent had anthing this cold in a long time.....
            junky

            specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

            if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: LEE<mailto:JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM> 
              To: The Ibogaine List<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
              Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:05 PM
              Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] something i havent seen here


              hey everyone... I have a question... in all the conversations ive read here, nobody has ever brought up, a medical treatment that seems to work really well for me.. neurontin (sic?) ie. gabafantin (sic?) and if needed for acute withdrawls colonidine (again, im not sure of the spelling, if anyone needs the correct spelling, just ask and ill find out.... ive been trying to get off of 2-4 mg of suboxone a day, for a while and I cant seem to cut my dose any lower and ive been getting the panic that you get.. so I went to my doc and asked for some xanex and neuorntin... I told him why, and he said he didn't know anything about the neurontin but if I wanted a script then how many did I want... so I told him... and out came his pad.... Im going to run out early because I didn't think suboxone was so addicting. so I have to take more than I asked for... the pharmecest (chemist)  said I could fill the refill early if I want but my insurance wont pay for...ahahahaha insurance... I don't have  insurance.... but my script of 300 mg pills twice a day for 30 days was only 19$ us dollars... just a thought... ive used ibogaine, and think it's the best thing since sliced cheese.... but this time I had to go the pharm route......... anyone have thoughts on this??? ive detoxed and came off oxy's this way once before, and it worked great, no shitting and great sleep, and no chills, and this time is just to get rid of a teeny bit of suboxone that I thought was not as strong as the  oxys I was taking... duh... stupid me... they are much more addictive.... anyway im writing too much... laters.... 
              junkboy.


              specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

              if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
                ----- Original Message ----- 
                From: Nyc W. Alberts<mailto:digitalcomponents at gmail.com> 
                To: The Ibogaine List<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
                Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:27 AM
                Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] shoulda done ibogaine


                Things got heated up on the NYC Craig's list over the Sean Bell travesty, with the majority of the racists pulling 'he was a scumbag drug dealer and deserved what he got and it's an OUTRAGE that anyone would take his side' card.

                So I wrote the following which got yanked in under an hour:

                  re: WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE WHEN YOUR KIDS DIE IN CROSSFIRE??

                  "Cosmo Kramer, please. 

                  I'll tell you where the outrage is with the illegal drug dealers that litter our streets is... 

                  Same place it was with the Prohibition of the 1920s: 

                  The US Government. 

                  Why? 

                  Because it's the US Government that SETS THE STREET PRICE FOR ILLEGAL DRUGS. 

                  How? 

                  It's simple, by making the drugs, that millions and millions of people in America love, and do every day, (with little to no personal harm, compared to alcohol and tobacco), illegal, the street price is 5,000% over what they cost to produce and distribute. 

                  5,000% 

                  (By way of comparison, Microsoft, GE and IBM are happy and lucky if they see a 10% profit over the course of a year for their products.) 

                  With that kind of profit motive of course people in this money driven and obsessed culture are going to run the risk of dealing these outlawed drugs on the street. 

                  Want to see these drug "problems" disappear overnight? 

                  Legalize and strictly regulate these street drugs and you'll see all these modern day Al Capones look for another line of work right quick. 

                  And don't even bother citing speed freaks as evidence that that drug is bad, because if that was the case the hospitals would be full of people that take Ritalin and Adderal, but they're not, because those drugs are strictly regulated. 

                  Want to change this for the better? 

                  Write your Congresscritter and let them know that you ARE OUTRAGED!!! and it's time to end the violence in our streets and end this Drug War, just like we did in 1933 with alcohol Prohibition. 

                  Thanks!"

                Here's the problem, not only can these people not handle the truth, they refuse to face it and with that there is no reasoning with them and so this will go on for about as long as this Democratic Primary is taking.

                ~Nyc

                .

                Dana Beal wrote: 
                  2008-04-25
                  Drug abuse debate: Legalization, medication or therapy?


                  By Roberto Loiederman, Contributing Writer
                  On a wall at Beit T'Shuvah's sanctuary there are plaques with the names of those connected with Beit T'Shuvah who have passed away. One of those names is that of Josh Lowenthal, a former resident who died on June 11, 1995. 


                  The Jewish Journal recently ran a story about "One-Way Ticket," Rita Lowenthal's memoir about her son, Josh, who was addicted to heroin from the age of 13 until his death from a self-administered overdose 25 years later. Lowenthal's moving account of her son's life punctures the myth that addiction can't happen to Jews. It can, and it does.


                  Another myth that Lowenthal would like to puncture is that if addicts only had enough willpower, they could kick the habit -- that only weak-willed people can't pull themselves out of the addiction abyss.


                  A recent Newsweek cover story is called, "The Hunt for an Addiction Vaccine." The article says that science views addiction not as a failure of willpower, but as a "chronic, relapsing brain disorder to be managed with all the tools at medicine's disposal," and that the National Institute for Drug Abuse (NIDA) is developing and testing compounds that could prevent or treat addiction. 


                  NIDA scientists have concluded that there are three kinds of self-control: putting off present gratification for a later reward, processing sufficient information before making a decision and being able to change responses that have become automatic. 


                  It should come as no surprise that addicts score poorly in all these categories. In other words, addicts' brains are wired to opt for immediate rewards, to leap before they look, and to keep repeating accustomed behavior in a rote manner. The medicines in development would change the addict's responses in all three areas.


                  Ethan Nadelmann, founder and executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, has a different focus: He objects to what he calls the massive failure of the global war on drugs. Like a growing number of responsible voices, Nadelmann argues for drug legalization, or at least decriminalization. 


                  In a recent article in Foreign Policy magazine, Nadelmann makes the case that the war on drugs cannot be won -- he cites "mountains of evidence documenting its moral and ideological bankruptcy." He writes that U.S. administrations have let rhetoric and ideology drive policy, and that in countries that have adopted a different way of dealing with drugs and addicts -- Britain, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and Switzerland -- the result has been "a reduction in drug-related harms without increasing drug use."


                  When asked about this, Beit T'Shuvah staff and residents uniformly say that legalization and pharmacological addiction treatments are beside the point. Their attitude is that addiction -- defined in their Web site as the "obsessive pursuit of drugs, alcohol, food, sex, money, property and/or prestige" -- is not about drugs, it's about the issues that lead to drug use, issues that also lead to other self-destructive behavior. 


                  One long-time Beit T'Shuvah resident, a middle-age man with an MBA and a background in the entertainment industry, said that "you can solve your drug problem and still not be any closer to an effective life. The point is to find out what the problems underneath are: not living your life effectively, not living it with truth. The problem is not the drugs.


                  "You can legalize drugs, you can find chemical ways of neutralizing the effects of drugs, but the end result will be the same: the root problem will still be there, and the person who has that problem will suffer in a different way. If it's not drug addiction, if it's not incarceration, it'll be family dysfunction or abuse or other issues. These are all manifestations of a deeper problem, just as drug addiction or alcoholism is a manifestation of a deeper problem. And it's that deeper problem that has to be treated."


                  Lowenthal agrees that addiction's deeper problems should be addressed: "Anyone who has been shamed and punished for addiction needs understanding and support." But she points out that the situation with illegal drugs, as opposed to alcohol or prescription drugs, makes users subject to the law: Her son was in and out of San Quentin and other prisons because he stole in order to maintain his addiction. "Try getting a student loan, a job, or sympathetic in-laws after serving time in prison," Lowenthal says. 


                  If her son had lived in a society where heroin use is not a crime and where it's cheaply available, then he probably wouldn't have stolen, she believes. He probably wouldn't have gone to prison over and over, and he might not have chosen to take his own life at the age of 38. 
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From phillipfiuty at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 13:19:42 2008
From: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com (Phillip Fiuty)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:19:42 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
Message-ID: <BAY102-W497A87335CC1D97645C74CD0DB0@phx.gbl>


I agree with the smoking thing. Smoking crack also can have that effect. The combination of dehydration and a mouth full of caustic chemicals eats up the enamel and causes severe recession of the gums.Chewing your own teeth doesn't help much, either.The home made stuff is way more toxic due to both the ingredients and the IQ of the chef. One guy I knew decided that his personal trade-markwas to use extra iodine. The product itself was grey and smelled like engine cleaner. Everyone who did it had problems with their eyes and couldn't get that cleanser taste out of their mouths for days.The product that has pretty much taken over here in the US is coming up from Mexico, and is a much more stable product in terms of 'quality'.It hasn't changed much for several years, and is overall much better dope than the home made stuff that swept the country in the 90's. A lotof the insanity associated with health, violence, exploding motels, etc, has subsided since the Mexicans took over.Kinda like the good old days when the bikers handled most of it, only theirs was way better since they tended to cook it from scratch in semi-real labs.I think this ephederine based short cut stuff isn't the same thing at all as real methamphetamine. Technically, it's the same thing...touted as 'purer' because it's missing one of the by products you get when its made from scratch, but it just isn't the same.Many of the OD's and side effects, like rashes, heart palps, etc, are the result of ephederine poisoning. None of that used to happen in the old days.PF


Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.ukTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102



I cant give a direct source right now but I believe smoking speed does decay the teeth. I will look into it when I have time to play with but do agree that scare tactics are most likely doing more harm than good, you only see one side of the story not that the person had bad hygiene as mentioned and bad nutrition. I also think a lot has to do with the quality of meth; this stuff made in DIY labs from household products etc are obviously going to do more harm than some thing that has been refined in a sterile environment using pure chemicals...... 

----- Original Message ----From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 9:03:26 PMSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102

'Meth will make you look old way before your time'Not true in my case, or with many of my friends. Looking at the scary photos of 'meth users' leads me to believe that most of those people have a good dose of MRSA coupled with poor hygiene and diet. After having done crank for almost twenty years, I get pegged at ten years my junior all of the time. I still have all but one of my own teeth (lost to a wisdom tooth), but I use to shower and brush my teeth all the time, mostly because I figured no one would kiss me if I didn't.I will say, though, that before I quit, it sure made me feel old.PF


Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:12:31 +0000From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.ukTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102


That was my original thinking until I looked into more of the pharmaceutical use. I was thinking on the lines of maintenance for addiction if you were registered as an addict (which would be seen as a disability) since it is regarded as a disease by the WHO and could be considered since the failing of the abstinence model; relapse being so high even were ibogaine a considered option. This would be the initial approach and then other programs would be more affordable with the money saved on the general war on drugs and incarceration (which in the states since its privatisation is seen as a growth market (of all descriptions!) 

----- Original Message ----From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 4:50:32 AMSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102Given that millions and millions of people safely take prescribed and regulated speed everyday, (see: ritalin/adderal to name 2), I've begun to rethink the harmful effects of this drug.I think it's the unregulated nature of street speed is more of the cause of the problems around this than anything else.My 2 ?.simon loxton wrote: 

Meth is a nasty but then look at the pharmaceutical market and their use of amphetamine related products; not to condone it in any way just to say there are less damaging forms of amphetamine. Funny to think though of all the drugs available the governments chose tobacco and alcohol to push (unless you are a staunch Muslim as far as the alcohol goes) ever wonder why? I saw a graph recently and nicotine was rated as the top addictive drug; go figure. How many deaths are alcohol related or fuelled acts of violence. A bit of a bad choice in my opinion.  

----- Original Message ----From: Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 3:16:46 AMSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102Opiates do keep you younger I think.  Pretty much everyone who knows me is surprised when I tell them how old I am.  My wife is 8 years younger than me and people tend to think I look more like her age then mine.  And compared with crack addicts (although I did a fair bit of that too) or especially meth addicts, opiate addicts usually look like a million bucks.  Meth will make you look old way before your time.  But as for that chinese man who smoked thing, there tends to be much less incidence of all types of cancers in that part of the world because of the isoflavones and saponins in soy which is a much bigger part of the diet in that region. Mattsimon loxton wrote: 

I was just going to say some thing along those lines, its so drummed into our heads how bad drugs are etc but they are very much a part of our human existence historically. there was the a record of one of the the oldest men; or man in china and he smoked tobacco all his adult life; just goes to show. The thing with the China-man was he lived all his life in a rural setting; there is no idea how much we consume daily in terms of unwanted toxins in the air we breathe which are far more damaging than 'Drugs' (a very loose term and statement) Ever noticed how most heroin or opiate addicts look younger? Bearing in mind I am not talking of the stereotypical homeless 'junky' Just people who are have an opiate habit. I am so sick of that media nasty; nor am I promoting opiate use before anyone develops a hernia. 

----- Original Message ----From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 12:43:09 AMSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102



or did the drugs keep him alive???
junky
specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.
 
if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Nyc W. Alberts 
To: The Ibogaine List 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:13 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Dead at 102Posted in Chronicle Blog by Scott Morgan on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 4:48pmInternet rumors of his passing have been confirmed for us by a friend ofDr. Hofmann's. Dr. Albert Hofmann died of a heart attack this morning athis home in Basel, Switzerland. Hofmann inadvertently discovered theeffects of LSD while researching the substance in 1943. He subsequentlyself-administered the drug deliberately and produced the first accountsof its powerful psychedelic effects.If you think 102 is old, just imagine how long he might have lived if henever did drugs!http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2008/apr/29/dr_albert_hofmann_father_of_lsd_   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

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From phillipfiuty at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 14:25:31 2008
From: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com (Phillip Fiuty)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:25:31 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Break the Chains Baltimore Conference
Message-ID: <BAY102-W25AD1F6DE59D70516AB29FD0DB0@phx.gbl>


Another good conference, y'all.
PF








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From phillipfiuty at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 14:42:37 2008
From: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com (Phillip Fiuty)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:42:37 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann...
In-Reply-To: <4817D215.2010509@gmail.com>
References: <378180.24360.qm@web28616.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4817D215.2010509@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY102-W35B8626BA2C84CAAE4A679D0DB0@phx.gbl>


That's funny. Back in the early Eighties when I lived in Minneapolis, my girlfriend and I use to drop acid about once a week, hop on my motorcycle and drive right out of our minds. 
One night, while exploring one of the suburbs, I turned onto a road that disappeared into a wooded hillside. It went back about an eighth of a mile and stopped at a chain link gate, and there in my head light... just beyond the gate, was a tall, thin water tower with the name SANDOZ in big black letters. Needless to say, we were in awe. I had to go back and see it in the daylight.
It was kind of like being under one of the monoliths in 2001.
PF> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:57:41 -0400> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com> From: digitalcomponents at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102> > I forgot I had this from my time working at the Human Genome Project > that the prior lab tenant had left behind when they moved:> > http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/133383666_8c40389503_o.jpg> > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][)> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
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From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Thu May  1 15:34:15 2008
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:34:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
Message-ID: <781571.34809.qm@web28616.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

What they are making here is ephedrine based so its really methadrine not methamphetamine. I have not tried it at all its a new thing here especially among the coloured community in the cape and its really cheap. You used to be able to get pure ephedrine right from the pharmacy about 10 years ago. I remember when we got a kilo from the Chinese of pure meth and we just could not do anything with it; no one knew about meth then in SA.?These were pure white crystals and another batch which was slightly yellow. I did not like it because it was just too strong 10mg would keep you up for at least 24 hrs. Crazy......and I do remember feeling very rattled after but it was very clean. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 7:19:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth

I agree with the smoking thing. Smoking crack also can have that effect. 
The combination of dehydration and a mouth full of caustic chemicals eats up the enamel and causes severe recession of the gums.
Chewing your own teeth doesn't help much, either.
The home made stuff is way more toxic due to both the ingredients and the IQ of the chef. One guy I knew decided that his personal trade-mark
was to use extra iodine. The product itself was grey and smelled like engine cleaner. Everyone who did it had problems with their eyes and couldn't 
get that cleanser taste out of their mouths for days.
The product that has pretty much taken over here in the US is coming up from Mexico, and is a much more stable product in terms of 'quality'.
It hasn't changed much for several years, and is overall much better dope than the home made stuff that swept the country in the 90's. A lot
of the insanity associated with health, violence, exploding motels, etc, has subsided since the Mexicans took over.
Kinda like the good old days when the bikers handled most of it, only theirs was way better since they tended to cook it from scratch in semi-real labs.
I think this ephederine based short cut stuff isn't the same thing at all as real methamphetamine. Technically, it's the same thing...
touted as 'purer' because it's missing one of the by products you get when its made from scratch, but it just isn't the same.
Many of the OD's and side effects, like rashes, heart palps, etc, are the result of ephederine poisoning. None of that used to happen in the old days.
PF



________________________________
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102


I cant give a direct source right now but I believe smoking speed does decay the teeth. I will look into it when I have time to play with but do agree that scare tactics are most likely doing more harm than good, you only see one side of the story not that the person had bad hygiene as mentioned and bad nutrition. I also think a lot has to do with the quality of meth; this stuff made in DIY labs from household products etc are obviously going to do more harm than some thing that has been refined in a sterile environment using pure chemicals...... 



----- Original Message ----
From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 9:03:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102

'Meth will make you look old way before your time'
Not true in my case, or with many of my friends. Looking at the scary photos of 'meth users' leads me to believe that most of those people 
have a good dose of MRSA coupled with poor hygiene and diet. 
After having done crank for almost twenty years, I get pegged at ten years my junior all of the time. I still have all but one of my own teeth (lost to a wisdom tooth), 
but I use to shower and brush my teeth all the time, mostly because I figured no one would kiss me if I didn't.
I will say, though,?that before I quit, it sure made me feel old.
PF




________________________________
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:12:31 +0000
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102


That was my original thinking until I looked into more of the pharmaceutical use. I was thinking on the lines of maintenance for addiction if you were registered as an addict (which would be seen as a disability) since it is regarded as a disease by the WHO and could be?considered?since the failing of the abstinence model; relapse being so high even were ibogaine a considered option. This would be the initial approach and then other programs would be more affordable with the money saved on the general war on drugs and incarceration (which in the states since its privatisation is seen as a growth market (of all descriptions!) 



----- Original Message ----
From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 4:50:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102

Given that millions and millions of people safely take prescribed and regulated speed everyday, (see: ritalin/adderal to name 2), I've begun to rethink the harmful effects of this drug.

I think it's the unregulated nature of street speed is more of the cause of the problems around this than anything else.

My 2 ?

.

simon loxton wrote: 
Meth is a nasty but then look at the pharmaceutical market and their use of amphetamine related products; not to condone it in any way just to say there are less damaging forms of amphetamine. Funny to think though of all the drugs available the governments chose tobacco and alcohol to push (unless you are a staunch Muslim as far as the alcohol goes) ever wonder why? I saw a graph recently and nicotine was rated as the top addictive drug; go figure. How many deaths are alcohol related or fuelled acts of violence. A bit of a bad choice in my opinion. 
?




----- Original Message ----
From: Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 3:16:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102

Opiates do keep you younger I think.? Pretty much everyone who knows me is surprised when I tell them how old I am.? My wife is 8 years younger than me and people tend to think I look more like her age then mine.? And compared with crack addicts (although I did a fair bit of that too) or especially meth addicts, opiate addicts usually look like a million bucks.? Meth will make you look old way before your time.? But as for that chinese man who smoked thing, there tends to be much less incidence of all types of cancers in that part of the world because of the isoflavones and saponins in soy which is a much bigger part of the diet in that region. 

Matt


simon loxton wrote: 
I was just going to say some thing along those lines, its so drummed into our heads how bad drugs are etc but they are very much a part of our human existence historically. there was the?a record of one of the the oldest men; or man in china and he smoked tobacco all his adult life; just goes to show. The thing with the China-man was he lived all his life in a rural setting; there is no idea how much we consume daily in terms of unwanted toxins in the air we breathe which are far more damaging than 'Drugs' (a very loose term and statement) Ever noticed how most heroin or opiate addicts look younger? Bearing in mind I am not talking of the stereotypical homeless 'junky' Just people who are have an opiate habit. I am so sick of that media nasty; nor am I promoting opiate use before anyone develops a hernia.
?




----- Original Message ----
From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 12:43:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102


or did the drugs keep him alive???
junky

specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.
?
if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Nyc W. Alberts 
To: The Ibogaine List 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:13 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Dead at 102

Posted in Chronicle Blog by Scott Morgan on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 4:48pm

Internet rumors of his passing have been confirmed for us by a friend of
Dr. Hofmann's. Dr. Albert Hofmann died of a heart attack this morning at
his home in Basel, Switzerland. Hofmann inadvertently discovered the
effects of LSD while researching the substance in 1943. He subsequently
self-administered the drug deliberately and produced the first accounts
of its powerful psychedelic effects.

If you think 102 is old, just imagine how long he might have lived if he
never did drugs!
http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2008/apr/29/dr_albert_hofmann_father_of_lsd_



?
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From hslotsof at phantom.com  Thu May  1 17:24:41 2008
From: hslotsof at phantom.com (Howard Lotsof)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 17:24:41 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
In-Reply-To: <781571.34809.qm@web28616.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <781571.34809.qm@web28616.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0B37BE1B-1FBA-4450-900D-3582AD0D4E02@phantom.com>

My understanding is that methadrine is a trade name for  
methamphetamine. Am uncertain if there is still a brand name version  
as there is for dexedrine.  That was an SKF product in the old days  
and was picked up by SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals.

Howard

On May 1, 2008, at 3:34 PM, simon loxton wrote:

> What they are making here is ephedrine based so its really  
> methadrine not methamphetamine. I have not tried it at all its a  
> new thing here especially among the coloured community in the cape  
> and its really cheap. You used to be able to get pure ephedrine  
> right from the pharmacy about 10 years ago. I remember when we got  
> a kilo from the Chinese of pure meth and we just could not do  
> anything with it; no one knew about meth then in SA. These were  
> pure white crystals and another batch which was slightly yellow. I  
> did not like it because it was just too strong 10mg would keep you  
> up for at least 24 hrs. Crazy......and I do remember feeling very  
> rattled after but it was very clean.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 7:19:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
>
> I agree with the smoking thing. Smoking crack also can have that  
> effect.
> The combination of dehydration and a mouth full of caustic  
> chemicals eats up the enamel and causes severe recession of the gums.
> Chewing your own teeth doesn't help much, either.
> The home made stuff is way more toxic due to both the ingredients  
> and the IQ of the chef. One guy I knew decided that his personal  
> trade-mark
> was to use extra iodine. The product itself was grey and smelled  
> like engine cleaner. Everyone who did it had problems with their  
> eyes and couldn't
> get that cleanser taste out of their mouths for days.
> The product that has pretty much taken over here in the US is  
> coming up from Mexico, and is a much more stable product in terms  
> of 'quality'.
> It hasn't changed much for several years, and is overall much  
> better dope than the home made stuff that swept the country in the  
> 90's. A lot
> of the insanity associated with health, violence, exploding motels,  
> etc, has subsided since the Mexicans took over.
> Kinda like the good old days when the bikers handled most of it,  
> only theirs was way better since they tended to cook it from  
> scratch in semi-real labs.
> I think this ephederine based short cut stuff isn't the same thing  
> at all as real methamphetamine. Technically, it's the same thing...
> touted as 'purer' because it's missing one of the by products you  
> get when its made from scratch, but it just isn't the same.
> Many of the OD's and side effects, like rashes, heart palps, etc,  
> are the result of ephederine poisoning. None of that used to happen  
> in the old days.
> PF
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> I cant give a direct source right now but I believe smoking speed  
> does decay the teeth. I will look into it when I have time to play  
> with but do agree that scare tactics are most likely doing more  
> harm than good, you only see one side of the story not that the  
> person had bad hygiene as mentioned and bad nutrition. I also think  
> a lot has to do with the quality of meth; this stuff made in DIY  
> labs from household products etc are obviously going to do more  
> harm than some thing that has been refined in a sterile environment  
> using pure chemicals......
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 9:03:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> 'Meth will make you look old way before your time'
> Not true in my case, or with many of my friends. Looking at the  
> scary photos of 'meth users' leads me to believe that most of those  
> people
> have a good dose of MRSA coupled with poor hygiene and diet.
> After having done crank for almost twenty years, I get pegged at  
> ten years my junior all of the time. I still have all but one of my  
> own teeth (lost to a wisdom tooth),
> but I use to shower and brush my teeth all the time, mostly because  
> I figured no one would kiss me if I didn't.
> I will say, though, that before I quit, it sure made me feel old.
> PF
>
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:12:31 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> That was my original thinking until I looked into more of the  
> pharmaceutical use. I was thinking on the lines of maintenance for  
> addiction if you were registered as an addict (which would be seen  
> as a disability) since it is regarded as a disease by the WHO and  
> could be considered since the failing of the abstinence model;  
> relapse being so high even were ibogaine a considered option. This  
> would be the initial approach and then other programs would be more  
> affordable with the money saved on the general war on drugs and  
> incarceration (which in the states since its privatisation is seen  
> as a growth market (of all descriptions!)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 4:50:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Given that millions and millions of people safely take prescribed  
> and regulated speed everyday, (see: ritalin/adderal to name 2),  
> I've begun to rethink the harmful effects of this drug.
>
> I think it's the unregulated nature of street speed is more of the  
> cause of the problems around this than anything else.
>
> My 2 ?
>
> .
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> Meth is a nasty but then look at the pharmaceutical market and  
> their use of amphetamine related products; not to condone it in any  
> way just to say there are less damaging forms of amphetamine. Funny  
> to think though of all the drugs available the governments chose  
> tobacco and alcohol to push (unless you are a staunch Muslim as far  
> as the alcohol goes) ever wonder why? I saw a graph recently and  
> nicotine was rated as the top addictive drug; go figure. How many  
> deaths are alcohol related or fuelled acts of violence. A bit of a  
> bad choice in my opinion.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 3:16:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Opiates do keep you younger I think.  Pretty much everyone who  
> knows me is surprised when I tell them how old I am.  My wife is 8  
> years younger than me and people tend to think I look more like her  
> age then mine.  And compared with crack addicts (although I did a  
> fair bit of that too) or especially meth addicts, opiate addicts  
> usually look like a million bucks.  Meth will make you look old way  
> before your time.  But as for that chinese man who smoked thing,  
> there tends to be much less incidence of all types of cancers in  
> that part of the world because of the isoflavones and saponins in  
> soy which is a much bigger part of the diet in that region.
>
> Matt
>
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> I was just going to say some thing along those lines, its so  
> drummed into our heads how bad drugs are etc but they are very much  
> a part of our human existence historically. there was the a record  
> of one of the the oldest men; or man in china and he smoked tobacco  
> all his adult life; just goes to show. The thing with the China-man  
> was he lived all his life in a rural setting; there is no idea how  
> much we consume daily in terms of unwanted toxins in the air we  
> breathe which are far more damaging than 'Drugs' (a very loose term  
> and statement) Ever noticed how most heroin or opiate addicts look  
> younger? Bearing in mind I am not talking of the stereotypical  
> homeless 'junky' Just people who are have an opiate habit. I am so  
> sick of that media nasty; nor am I promoting opiate use before  
> anyone develops a hernia.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 12:43:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> or did the drugs keep him alive???
> junky
>
> specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers),  
> and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or  
> email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction.  
> even if the part is obsolete.
>
> if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine,  
> meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:13 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD,  
> Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Dead at 102
>
> Posted in Chronicle Blog by Scott Morgan on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 4:48pm
>
> Internet rumors of his passing have been confirmed for us by a  
> friend of
> Dr. Hofmann's. Dr. Albert Hofmann died of a heart attack this  
> morning at
> his home in Basel, Switzerland. Hofmann inadvertently discovered the
> effects of LSD while researching the substance in 1943. He  
> subsequently
> self-administered the drug deliberately and produced the first  
> accounts
> of its powerful psychedelic effects.
>
> If you think 102 is old, just imagine how long he might have lived  
> if he
> never did drugs!
> http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2008/apr/29/ 
> dr_albert_hofmann_father_of_lsd_
>
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email. -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List  
> Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un] 
> Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
>
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> [) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Thu May  1 17:51:32 2008
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 21:51:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
Message-ID: <47620.50628.qm@web28607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Thanks for correcting me on that one; I think I need to do a but more research into amphetamines, I seemed to have the wrong information. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Howard Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 11:24:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth

My understanding is that methadrine is a trade name for? 
methamphetamine. Am uncertain if there is still a brand name version? 
as there is for dexedrine.? That was an SKF product in the old days? 
and was picked up by SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals.

Howard

On May 1, 2008, at 3:34 PM, simon loxton wrote:

> What they are making here is ephedrine based so its really? 
> methadrine not methamphetamine. I have not tried it at all its a? 
> new thing here especially among the coloured community in the cape? 
> and its really cheap. You used to be able to get pure ephedrine? 
> right from the pharmacy about 10 years ago. I remember when we got? 
> a kilo from the Chinese of pure meth and we just could not do? 
> anything with it; no one knew about meth then in SA. These were? 
> pure white crystals and another batch which was slightly yellow. I? 
> did not like it because it was just too strong 10mg would keep you? 
> up for at least 24 hrs. Crazy......and I do remember feeling very? 
> rattled after but it was very clean.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 7:19:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
>
> I agree with the smoking thing. Smoking crack also can have that? 
> effect.
> The combination of dehydration and a mouth full of caustic? 
> chemicals eats up the enamel and causes severe recession of the gums.
> Chewing your own teeth doesn't help much, either.
> The home made stuff is way more toxic due to both the ingredients? 
> and the IQ of the chef. One guy I knew decided that his personal? 
> trade-mark
> was to use extra iodine. The product itself was grey and smelled? 
> like engine cleaner. Everyone who did it had problems with their? 
> eyes and couldn't
> get that cleanser taste out of their mouths for days.
> The product that has pretty much taken over here in the US is? 
> coming up from Mexico, and is a much more stable product in terms? 
> of 'quality'.
> It hasn't changed much for several years, and is overall much? 
> better dope than the home made stuff that swept the country in the? 
> 90's. A lot
> of the insanity associated with health, violence, exploding motels,? 
> etc, has subsided since the Mexicans took over.
> Kinda like the good old days when the bikers handled most of it,? 
> only theirs was way better since they tended to cook it from? 
> scratch in semi-real labs.
> I think this ephederine based short cut stuff isn't the same thing? 
> at all as real methamphetamine. Technically, it's the same thing...
> touted as 'purer' because it's missing one of the by products you? 
> get when its made from scratch, but it just isn't the same.
> Many of the OD's and side effects, like rashes, heart palps, etc,? 
> are the result of ephederine poisoning. None of that used to happen? 
> in the old days.
> PF
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> I cant give a direct source right now but I believe smoking speed? 
> does decay the teeth. I will look into it when I have time to play? 
> with but do agree that scare tactics are most likely doing more? 
> harm than good, you only see one side of the story not that the? 
> person had bad hygiene as mentioned and bad nutrition. I also think? 
> a lot has to do with the quality of meth; this stuff made in DIY? 
> labs from household products etc are obviously going to do more? 
> harm than some thing that has been refined in a sterile environment? 
> using pure chemicals......
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 9:03:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> 'Meth will make you look old way before your time'
> Not true in my case, or with many of my friends. Looking at the? 
> scary photos of 'meth users' leads me to believe that most of those? 
> people
> have a good dose of MRSA coupled with poor hygiene and diet.
> After having done crank for almost twenty years, I get pegged at? 
> ten years my junior all of the time. I still have all but one of my? 
> own teeth (lost to a wisdom tooth),
> but I use to shower and brush my teeth all the time, mostly because? 
> I figured no one would kiss me if I didn't.
> I will say, though, that before I quit, it sure made me feel old.
> PF
>
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:12:31 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> That was my original thinking until I looked into more of the? 
> pharmaceutical use. I was thinking on the lines of maintenance for? 
> addiction if you were registered as an addict (which would be seen? 
> as a disability) since it is regarded as a disease by the WHO and? 
> could be considered since the failing of the abstinence model;? 
> relapse being so high even were ibogaine a considered option. This? 
> would be the initial approach and then other programs would be more? 
> affordable with the money saved on the general war on drugs and? 
> incarceration (which in the states since its privatisation is seen? 
> as a growth market (of all descriptions!)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 4:50:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Given that millions and millions of people safely take prescribed? 
> and regulated speed everyday, (see: ritalin/adderal to name 2),? 
> I've begun to rethink the harmful effects of this drug.
>
> I think it's the unregulated nature of street speed is more of the? 
> cause of the problems around this than anything else.
>
> My 2 ?
>
> .
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> Meth is a nasty but then look at the pharmaceutical market and? 
> their use of amphetamine related products; not to condone it in any? 
> way just to say there are less damaging forms of amphetamine. Funny? 
> to think though of all the drugs available the governments chose? 
> tobacco and alcohol to push (unless you are a staunch Muslim as far? 
> as the alcohol goes) ever wonder why? I saw a graph recently and? 
> nicotine was rated as the top addictive drug; go figure. How many? 
> deaths are alcohol related or fuelled acts of violence. A bit of a? 
> bad choice in my opinion.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 3:16:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Opiates do keep you younger I think.? Pretty much everyone who? 
> knows me is surprised when I tell them how old I am.? My wife is 8? 
> years younger than me and people tend to think I look more like her? 
> age then mine.? And compared with crack addicts (although I did a? 
> fair bit of that too) or especially meth addicts, opiate addicts? 
> usually look like a million bucks.? Meth will make you look old way? 
> before your time.? But as for that chinese man who smoked thing,? 
> there tends to be much less incidence of all types of cancers in? 
> that part of the world because of the isoflavones and saponins in? 
> soy which is a much bigger part of the diet in that region.
>
> Matt
>
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> I was just going to say some thing along those lines, its so? 
> drummed into our heads how bad drugs are etc but they are very much? 
> a part of our human existence historically. there was the a record? 
> of one of the the oldest men; or man in china and he smoked tobacco? 
> all his adult life; just goes to show. The thing with the China-man? 
> was he lived all his life in a rural setting; there is no idea how? 
> much we consume daily in terms of unwanted toxins in the air we? 
> breathe which are far more damaging than 'Drugs' (a very loose term? 
> and statement) Ever noticed how most heroin or opiate addicts look? 
> younger? Bearing in mind I am not talking of the stereotypical? 
> homeless 'junky' Just people who are have an opiate habit. I am so? 
> sick of that media nasty; nor am I promoting opiate use before? 
> anyone develops a hernia.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 12:43:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> or did the drugs keep him alive???
> junky
>
> specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers),? 
> and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or? 
> email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction.? 
> even if the part is obsolete.
>
> if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine,? 
> meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:13 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD,? 
> Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Dead at 102
>
> Posted in Chronicle Blog by Scott Morgan on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 4:48pm
>
> Internet rumors of his passing have been confirmed for us by a? 
> friend of
> Dr. Hofmann's. Dr. Albert Hofmann died of a heart attack this? 
> morning at
> his home in Basel, Switzerland. Hofmann inadvertently discovered the
> effects of LSD while researching the substance in 1943. He? 
> subsequently
> self-administered the drug deliberately and produced the first? 
> accounts
> of its powerful psychedelic effects.
>
> If you think 102 is old, just imagine how long he might have lived? 
> if he
> never did drugs!
> http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2008/apr/29/ 
> dr_albert_hofmann_father_of_lsd_
>
>
>
>
>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][)
>? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email. -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List? 
> Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un] 
> Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
>
>? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (] 
> [%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -= 
> [) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email.
>
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From digitalcomponents at gmail.com  Thu May  1 22:34:26 2008
From: digitalcomponents at gmail.com (Nyc W. Alberts)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 22:34:26 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection -
	washingtonpost.com
Message-ID: <481A7DB2.2090106@gmail.com>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html?nav=hcmodule 


From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Fri May  2 11:18:32 2008
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 15:18:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
Message-ID: <884207.57336.qm@web28601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Funny you know the information I posted about methadrine was from some one who works at an addiction centre, there is still a lot of misinformation out there. Thanks for the link that was posted that the recent study on weed; that it does not cause cancer as opposed to previous information that smoking a joint was like smoking X amount of cigarettes and took x amount of time off your life. Thanks to wikipedia and mindvox. 


----- Original Message ----
From: Howard Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 11:24:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth

My understanding is that methadrine is a trade name for? 
methamphetamine. Am uncertain if there is still a brand name version? 
as there is for dexedrine.? That was an SKF product in the old days? 
and was picked up by SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals.

Howard

On May 1, 2008, at 3:34 PM, simon loxton wrote:

> What they are making here is ephedrine based so its really? 
> methadrine not methamphetamine. I have not tried it at all its a? 
> new thing here especially among the coloured community in the cape? 
> and its really cheap. You used to be able to get pure ephedrine? 
> right from the pharmacy about 10 years ago. I remember when we got? 
> a kilo from the Chinese of pure meth and we just could not do? 
> anything with it; no one knew about meth then in SA. These were? 
> pure white crystals and another batch which was slightly yellow. I? 
> did not like it because it was just too strong 10mg would keep you? 
> up for at least 24 hrs. Crazy......and I do remember feeling very? 
> rattled after but it was very clean.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 7:19:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
>
> I agree with the smoking thing. Smoking crack also can have that? 
> effect.
> The combination of dehydration and a mouth full of caustic? 
> chemicals eats up the enamel and causes severe recession of the gums.
> Chewing your own teeth doesn't help much, either.
> The home made stuff is way more toxic due to both the ingredients? 
> and the IQ of the chef. One guy I knew decided that his personal? 
> trade-mark
> was to use extra iodine. The product itself was grey and smelled? 
> like engine cleaner. Everyone who did it had problems with their? 
> eyes and couldn't
> get that cleanser taste out of their mouths for days.
> The product that has pretty much taken over here in the US is? 
> coming up from Mexico, and is a much more stable product in terms? 
> of 'quality'.
> It hasn't changed much for several years, and is overall much? 
> better dope than the home made stuff that swept the country in the? 
> 90's. A lot
> of the insanity associated with health, violence, exploding motels,? 
> etc, has subsided since the Mexicans took over.
> Kinda like the good old days when the bikers handled most of it,? 
> only theirs was way better since they tended to cook it from? 
> scratch in semi-real labs.
> I think this ephederine based short cut stuff isn't the same thing? 
> at all as real methamphetamine. Technically, it's the same thing...
> touted as 'purer' because it's missing one of the by products you? 
> get when its made from scratch, but it just isn't the same.
> Many of the OD's and side effects, like rashes, heart palps, etc,? 
> are the result of ephederine poisoning. None of that used to happen? 
> in the old days.
> PF
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> I cant give a direct source right now but I believe smoking speed? 
> does decay the teeth. I will look into it when I have time to play? 
> with but do agree that scare tactics are most likely doing more? 
> harm than good, you only see one side of the story not that the? 
> person had bad hygiene as mentioned and bad nutrition. I also think? 
> a lot has to do with the quality of meth; this stuff made in DIY? 
> labs from household products etc are obviously going to do more? 
> harm than some thing that has been refined in a sterile environment? 
> using pure chemicals......
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 9:03:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> 'Meth will make you look old way before your time'
> Not true in my case, or with many of my friends. Looking at the? 
> scary photos of 'meth users' leads me to believe that most of those? 
> people
> have a good dose of MRSA coupled with poor hygiene and diet.
> After having done crank for almost twenty years, I get pegged at? 
> ten years my junior all of the time. I still have all but one of my? 
> own teeth (lost to a wisdom tooth),
> but I use to shower and brush my teeth all the time, mostly because? 
> I figured no one would kiss me if I didn't.
> I will say, though, that before I quit, it sure made me feel old.
> PF
>
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:12:31 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> That was my original thinking until I looked into more of the? 
> pharmaceutical use. I was thinking on the lines of maintenance for? 
> addiction if you were registered as an addict (which would be seen? 
> as a disability) since it is regarded as a disease by the WHO and? 
> could be considered since the failing of the abstinence model;? 
> relapse being so high even were ibogaine a considered option. This? 
> would be the initial approach and then other programs would be more? 
> affordable with the money saved on the general war on drugs and? 
> incarceration (which in the states since its privatisation is seen? 
> as a growth market (of all descriptions!)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 4:50:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Given that millions and millions of people safely take prescribed? 
> and regulated speed everyday, (see: ritalin/adderal to name 2),? 
> I've begun to rethink the harmful effects of this drug.
>
> I think it's the unregulated nature of street speed is more of the? 
> cause of the problems around this than anything else.
>
> My 2 ?
>
> .
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> Meth is a nasty but then look at the pharmaceutical market and? 
> their use of amphetamine related products; not to condone it in any? 
> way just to say there are less damaging forms of amphetamine. Funny? 
> to think though of all the drugs available the governments chose? 
> tobacco and alcohol to push (unless you are a staunch Muslim as far? 
> as the alcohol goes) ever wonder why? I saw a graph recently and? 
> nicotine was rated as the top addictive drug; go figure. How many? 
> deaths are alcohol related or fuelled acts of violence. A bit of a? 
> bad choice in my opinion.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 3:16:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Opiates do keep you younger I think.? Pretty much everyone who? 
> knows me is surprised when I tell them how old I am.? My wife is 8? 
> years younger than me and people tend to think I look more like her? 
> age then mine.? And compared with crack addicts (although I did a? 
> fair bit of that too) or especially meth addicts, opiate addicts? 
> usually look like a million bucks.? Meth will make you look old way? 
> before your time.? But as for that chinese man who smoked thing,? 
> there tends to be much less incidence of all types of cancers in? 
> that part of the world because of the isoflavones and saponins in? 
> soy which is a much bigger part of the diet in that region.
>
> Matt
>
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> I was just going to say some thing along those lines, its so? 
> drummed into our heads how bad drugs are etc but they are very much? 
> a part of our human existence historically. there was the a record? 
> of one of the the oldest men; or man in china and he smoked tobacco? 
> all his adult life; just goes to show. The thing with the China-man? 
> was he lived all his life in a rural setting; there is no idea how? 
> much we consume daily in terms of unwanted toxins in the air we? 
> breathe which are far more damaging than 'Drugs' (a very loose term? 
> and statement) Ever noticed how most heroin or opiate addicts look? 
> younger? Bearing in mind I am not talking of the stereotypical? 
> homeless 'junky' Just people who are have an opiate habit. I am so? 
> sick of that media nasty; nor am I promoting opiate use before? 
> anyone develops a hernia.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 12:43:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> or did the drugs keep him alive???
> junky
>
> specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers),? 
> and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or? 
> email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction.? 
> even if the part is obsolete.
>
> if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine,? 
> meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:13 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD,? 
> Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Dead at 102
>
> Posted in Chronicle Blog by Scott Morgan on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 4:48pm
>
> Internet rumors of his passing have been confirmed for us by a? 
> friend of
> Dr. Hofmann's. Dr. Albert Hofmann died of a heart attack this? 
> morning at
> his home in Basel, Switzerland. Hofmann inadvertently discovered the
> effects of LSD while researching the substance in 1943. He? 
> subsequently
> self-administered the drug deliberately and produced the first? 
> accounts
> of its powerful psychedelic effects.
>
> If you think 102 is old, just imagine how long he might have lived? 
> if he
> never did drugs!
> http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2008/apr/29/ 
> dr_albert_hofmann_father_of_lsd_
>
>
>
>
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From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Fri May  2 13:00:09 2008
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 17:00:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
Message-ID: <581729.3906.qm@web28612.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Oh yea; thanks to Howard initially !



----- Original Message ----
From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, 2 May, 2008 5:18:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth


Funny you know the information I posted about methadrine was from some one who works at an addiction centre, there is still a lot of misinformation out there. Thanks for the link that was posted that the recent study on weed; that it does not cause cancer as opposed to previous information that smoking a joint was like smoking X amount of cigarettes and took x amount of time off your life. Thanks to wikipedia and mindvox. 


----- Original Message ----
From: Howard Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 11:24:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth

My understanding is that methadrine is a trade name for? 
methamphetamine. Am uncertain if there is still a brand name version? 
as there is for dexedrine.? That was an SKF product in the old days? 
and was picked up by SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals.

Howard

On May 1, 2008, at 3:34 PM, simon loxton wrote:

> What they are making here is ephedrine based so its really? 
> methadrine not methamphetamine. I have not tried it at all its a? 
> new thing here especially among the coloured community in the cape? 
> and its really cheap. You used to be able to get pure ephedrine? 
> right from the pharmacy about 10 years ago. I remember when we got? 
> a kilo from the Chinese of pure meth and we just could not do? 
> anything with it; no one knew about meth then in SA. These were? 
> pure white crystals and another batch which was slightly yellow. I? 
> did not like it because it was just too strong 10mg would keep you? 
> up for at least 24 hrs. Crazy......and I do remember feeling very? 
> rattled after but it was very clean.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 7:19:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
>
> I agree with the smoking thing. Smoking crack also can have that? 
> effect.
> The combination of dehydration and a mouth full of caustic? 
> chemicals eats up the enamel and causes severe recession of the gums.
> Chewing your own teeth doesn't help much, either.
> The home made stuff is way more toxic due to both the ingredients? 
> and the IQ of the chef. One guy I knew decided that his personal? 
> trade-mark
> was to use extra iodine. The product itself was grey and smelled? 
> like engine cleaner. Everyone who did it had problems with their? 
> eyes and couldn't
> get that cleanser taste out of their mouths for days.
> The product that has pretty much taken over here in the US is? 
> coming up from Mexico, and is a much more stable product in terms? 
> of 'quality'.
> It hasn't changed much for several years, and is overall much? 
> better dope than the home made stuff that swept the country in the? 
> 90's. A lot
> of the insanity associated with health, violence, exploding motels,? 
> etc, has subsided since the Mexicans took over.
> Kinda like the good old days when the bikers handled most of it,? 
> only theirs was way better since they tended to cook it from? 
> scratch in semi-real labs.
> I think this ephederine based short cut stuff isn't the same thing? 
> at all as real methamphetamine. Technically, it's the same thing...
> touted as 'purer' because it's missing one of the by products you? 
> get when its made from scratch, but it just isn't the same.
> Many of the OD's and side effects, like rashes, heart palps, etc,? 
> are the result of ephederine poisoning. None of that used to happen? 
> in the old days.
> PF
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> I cant give a direct source right now but I believe smoking speed? 
> does decay the teeth. I will look into it when I have time to play? 
> with but do agree that scare tactics are most likely doing more? 
> harm than good, you only see one side of the story not that the? 
> person had bad hygiene as mentioned and bad nutrition. I also think? 
> a lot has to do with the quality of meth; this stuff made in DIY? 
> labs from household products etc are obviously going to do more? 
> harm than some thing that has been refined in a sterile environment? 
> using pure chemicals......
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 9:03:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> 'Meth will make you look old way before your time'
> Not true in my case, or with many of my friends. Looking at the? 
> scary photos of 'meth users' leads me to believe that most of those? 
> people
> have a good dose of MRSA coupled with poor hygiene and diet.
> After having done crank for almost twenty years, I get pegged at? 
> ten years my junior all of the time. I still have all but one of my? 
> own teeth (lost to a wisdom tooth),
> but I use to shower and brush my teeth all the time, mostly because? 
> I figured no one would kiss me if I didn't.
> I will say, though, that before I quit, it sure made me feel old.
> PF
>
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:12:31 +0000
> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> That was my original thinking until I looked into more of the? 
> pharmaceutical use. I was thinking on the lines of maintenance for? 
> addiction if you were registered as an addict (which would be seen? 
> as a disability) since it is regarded as a disease by the WHO and? 
> could be considered since the failing of the abstinence model;? 
> relapse being so high even were ibogaine a considered option. This? 
> would be the initial approach and then other programs would be more? 
> affordable with the money saved on the general war on drugs and? 
> incarceration (which in the states since its privatisation is seen? 
> as a growth market (of all descriptions!)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 4:50:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Given that millions and millions of people safely take prescribed? 
> and regulated speed everyday, (see: ritalin/adderal to name 2),? 
> I've begun to rethink the harmful effects of this drug.
>
> I think it's the unregulated nature of street speed is more of the? 
> cause of the problems around this than anything else.
>
> My 2 ?
>
> .
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> Meth is a nasty but then look at the pharmaceutical market and? 
> their use of amphetamine related products; not to condone it in any? 
> way just to say there are less damaging forms of amphetamine. Funny? 
> to think though of all the drugs available the governments chose? 
> tobacco and alcohol to push (unless you are a staunch Muslim as far? 
> as the alcohol goes) ever wonder why? I saw a graph recently and? 
> nicotine was rated as the top addictive drug; go figure. How many? 
> deaths are alcohol related or fuelled acts of violence. A bit of a? 
> bad choice in my opinion.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 3:16:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Opiates do keep you younger I think.? Pretty much everyone who? 
> knows me is surprised when I tell them how old I am.? My wife is 8? 
> years younger than me and people tend to think I look more like her? 
> age then mine.? And compared with crack addicts (although I did a? 
> fair bit of that too) or especially meth addicts, opiate addicts? 
> usually look like a million bucks.? Meth will make you look old way? 
> before your time.? But as for that chinese man who smoked thing,? 
> there tends to be much less incidence of all types of cancers in? 
> that part of the world because of the isoflavones and saponins in? 
> soy which is a much bigger part of the diet in that region.
>
> Matt
>
>
> simon loxton wrote:
> I was just going to say some thing along those lines, its so? 
> drummed into our heads how bad drugs are etc but they are very much? 
> a part of our human existence historically. there was the a record? 
> of one of the the oldest men; or man in china and he smoked tobacco? 
> all his adult life; just goes to show. The thing with the China-man? 
> was he lived all his life in a rural setting; there is no idea how? 
> much we consume daily in terms of unwanted toxins in the air we? 
> breathe which are far more damaging than 'Drugs' (a very loose term? 
> and statement) Ever noticed how most heroin or opiate addicts look? 
> younger? Bearing in mind I am not talking of the stereotypical? 
> homeless 'junky' Just people who are have an opiate habit. I am so? 
> sick of that media nasty; nor am I promoting opiate use before? 
> anyone develops a hernia.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 12:43:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of? 
> LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> or did the drugs keep him alive???
> junky
>
> specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers),? 
> and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or? 
> email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction.? 
> even if the part is obsolete.
>
> if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine,? 
> meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nyc W. Alberts
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:13 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD,? 
> Merges With The Infinite at 102
>
> Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Dead at 102
>
> Posted in Chronicle Blog by Scott Morgan on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 4:48pm
>
> Internet rumors of his passing have been confirmed for us by a? 
> friend of
> Dr. Hofmann's. Dr. Albert Hofmann died of a heart attack this? 
> morning at
> his home in Basel, Switzerland. Hofmann inadvertently discovered the
> effects of LSD while researching the substance in 1943. He? 
> subsequently
> self-administered the drug deliberately and produced the first? 
> accounts
> of its powerful psychedelic effects.
>
> If you think 102 is old, just imagine how long he might have lived? 
> if he
> never did drugs!
> http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2008/apr/29/ 
> dr_albert_hofmann_father_of_lsd_
>
>
>
>
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From phillipfiuty at hotmail.com  Fri May  2 14:34:38 2008
From: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com (Phillip Fiuty)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:34:38 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth
Message-ID: <BAY102-W3379F9654D6F48B1727A03D0DA0@phx.gbl>


If you look in the PDR, you'll find two pharmaceutical versions of methamphetamine. one is Dysoxin, which I believe may only be prescribed six tablets at a time, no refills, for extreme narcolepsy. It use to be used also for severe life threatening obesity, but not any more. The other version has no listed uses or brand name. It is the one that is manufactured for the military.
The last time I saw any of these on the street was in the late 80's. Talk about "clean". They came in a plastic pill that your body absorbs the liquid out of, and you shit out the pill. So in order to blast 'em, we had to put them in a vial of water overnight, forcing us speed freaks to practice a little patience.
PF. 
 


Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 21:51:32 +0000From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.ukTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth



Thanks for correcting me on that one; I think I need to do a but more research into amphetamines, I seemed to have the wrong information. 

----- Original Message ----From: Howard Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com>To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 11:24:41 PMSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouthMy understanding is that methadrine is a trade name for  methamphetamine. Am uncertain if there is still a brand name version  as there is for dexedrine.  That was an SKF product in the old days  and was picked up by SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals.HowardOn May 1, 2008, at 3:34 PM, simon loxton wrote:> What they are making here is ephedrine based so its really  > methadrine not methamphetamine. I have not tried it at all its a  > new thing here especially among the coloured community in the cape  > and its really cheap. You used to be able to get pure ephedrine  > right from the pharmacy about 10 years ago. I remember when we got  > a kilo from the Chinese of pure meth and we just could not do  > anything with it; no one knew about meth then in SA. These were  > pure white crystals and another batch which was slightly yellow. I  > did not like it because it was just too strong 10mg would keep you  > up for at least 24 hrs. Crazy......and I do remember feeling very  > rattled after but it was very clean.>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>> Sent: Thursday, 1 May, 2008 7:19:42 PM> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth mouth>> I agree with the smoking thing. Smoking crack also can have that  > effect.> The combination of dehydration and a mouth full of caustic  > chemicals eats up the enamel and causes severe recession of the gums.> Chewing your own teeth doesn't help much, either.> The home made stuff is way more toxic due to both the ingredients  > and the IQ of the chef. One guy I knew decided that his personal  > trade-mark> was to use extra iodine. The product itself was grey and smelled  > like engine cleaner. Everyone who did it had problems with their  > eyes and couldn't> get that cleanser taste out of their mouths for days.> The product that has pretty much taken over here in the US is  > coming up from Mexico, and is a much more stable product in terms  > of 'quality'.> It hasn't changed much for several years, and is overall much  > better dope than the home made stuff that swept the country in the  > 90's. A lot> of the insanity associated with health, violence, exploding motels,  > etc, has subsided since the Mexicans took over.> Kinda like the good old days when the bikers handled most of it,  > only theirs was way better since they tended to cook it from  > scratch in semi-real labs.> I think this ephederine based short cut stuff isn't the same thing  > at all as real methamphetamine. Technically, it's the same thing...> touted as 'purer' because it's missing one of the by products you  > get when its made from scratch, but it just isn't the same.> Many of the OD's and side effects, like rashes, heart palps, etc,  > are the result of ephederine poisoning. None of that used to happen  > in the old days.> PF>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  > LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102>> I cant give a direct source right now but I believe smoking speed  > does decay the teeth. I will look into it when I have time to play  > with but do agree that scare tactics are most likely doing more  > harm than good, you only see one side of the story not that the  > person had bad hygiene as mentioned and bad nutrition. I also think  > a lot has to do with the quality of meth; this stuff made in DIY  > labs from household products etc are obviously going to do more  > harm than some thing that has been refined in a sterile environment  > using pure chemicals......>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 9:03:26 PM> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  > LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102>> 'Meth will make you look old way before your time'> Not true in my case, or with many of my friends. Looking at the  > scary photos of 'meth users' leads me to believe that most of those  > people> have a good dose of MRSA coupled with poor hygiene and diet.> After having done crank for almost twenty years, I get pegged at  > ten years my junior all of the time. I still have all but one of my  > own teeth (lost to a wisdom tooth),> but I use to shower and brush my teeth all the time, mostly because  > I figured no one would kiss me if I didn't.> I will say, though, that before I quit, it sure made me feel old.> PF>>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:12:31 +0000> From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  > LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102>> That was my original thinking until I looked into more of the  > pharmaceutical use. I was thinking on the lines of maintenance for  > addiction if you were registered as an addict (which would be seen  > as a disability) since it is regarded as a disease by the WHO and  > could be considered since the failing of the abstinence model;  > relapse being so high even were ibogaine a considered option. This  > would be the initial approach and then other programs would be more  > affordable with the money saved on the general war on drugs and  > incarceration (which in the states since its privatisation is seen  > as a growth market (of all descriptions!)>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 4:50:32 AM> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  > LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102>> Given that millions and millions of people safely take prescribed  > and regulated speed everyday, (see: ritalin/adderal to name 2),  > I've begun to rethink the harmful effects of this drug.>> I think it's the unregulated nature of street speed is more of the  > cause of the problems around this than anything else.>> My 2 ?>> .>> simon loxton wrote:> Meth is a nasty but then look at the pharmaceutical market and  > their use of amphetamine related products; not to condone it in any  > way just to say there are less damaging forms of amphetamine. Funny  > to think though of all the drugs available the governments chose  > tobacco and alcohol to push (unless you are a staunch Muslim as far  > as the alcohol goes) ever wonder why? I saw a graph recently and  > nicotine was rated as the top addictive drug; go figure. How many  > deaths are alcohol related or fuelled acts of violence. A bit of a  > bad choice in my opinion.>>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 3:16:46 AM> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  > LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102>> Opiates do keep you younger I think.  Pretty much everyone who  > knows me is surprised when I tell them how old I am.  My wife is 8  > years younger than me and people tend to think I look more like her  > age then mine.  And compared with crack addicts (although I did a  > fair bit of that too) or especially meth addicts, opiate addicts  > usually look like a million bucks.  Meth will make you look old way  > before your time.  But as for that chinese man who smoked thing,  > there tends to be much less incidence of all types of cancers in  > that part of the world because of the isoflavones and saponins in  > soy which is a much bigger part of the diet in that region.>> Matt>>> simon loxton wrote:> I was just going to say some thing along those lines, its so  > drummed into our heads how bad drugs are etc but they are very much  > a part of our human existence historically. there was the a record  > of one of the the oldest men; or man in china and he smoked tobacco  > all his adult life; just goes to show. The thing with the China-man  > was he lived all his life in a rural setting; there is no idea how  > much we consume daily in terms of unwanted toxins in the air we  > breathe which are far more damaging than 'Drugs' (a very loose term  > and statement) Ever noticed how most heroin or opiate addicts look  > younger? Bearing in mind I am not talking of the stereotypical  > homeless 'junky' Just people who are have an opiate habit. I am so  > sick of that media nasty; nor am I promoting opiate use before  > anyone develops a hernia.>>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: LEE <JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 April, 2008 12:43:09 AM> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of  > LSD, Merges With The Infinite at 102>> or did the drugs keep him alive???> junky>> specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers),  > and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or  > email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction.  > even if the part is obsolete.>> if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine,  > meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....> ----- Original Message -----> From: Nyc W. Alberts> To: The Ibogaine List> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:13 PM> Subject: [Ibogaine] CONFIRMED: Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD,  > Merges With The Infinite at 102>> Dr. Albert Hofmann, Father of LSD, Dead at 102>> Posted in Chronicle Blog by Scott Morgan on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 4:48pm>> Internet rumors of his passing have been confirmed for us by a  > friend of> Dr. Hofmann's. Dr. Albert Hofmann died of a heart attack this  > morning at> his home in Basel, Switzerland. Hofmann inadvertently discovered the> effects of LSD while researching the substance in 1943. He  > subsequently> self-administered the drug deliberately and produced the first  > accounts> of its powerful psychedelic effects.>> If you think 102 is old, just imagine how long he might have lived  > if he> never did drugs!> http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy_main/2008/apr/29/ > dr_albert_hofmann_father_of_lsd_>>>>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=->> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.> A Smarter Email. -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List  > Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ > ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un] > Subscribe :::: (]=->> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.> A Smarter Email.>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (] > [%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -= > [) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=->> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.> A Smarter Email.> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.> A Smarter Email.> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.> A Smarter Email.>>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)>  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)  -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-

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From phillipfiuty at hotmail.com  Fri May  2 14:37:38 2008
From: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com (Phillip Fiuty)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:37:38 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: [HARMRED]  Hep C med marijuana patient dies
Message-ID: <BAY102-W524D6EB74C5F8745E34ED1D0DA0@phx.gbl>


> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 06:25:57 +0000> From: kris_sos at speakeasy.net> To: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com> Subject: [HARMRED] Hep C med marijuana patient dies> To: harmred at list1.ga3.org> > relevant links:> > http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_medical_marijuana_death.html> > > http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/first_do_no_harm> (the commenters here could use some education...so weigh in)> > > First, Do No Harm> posted by DAN SAVAGE on MAY 1 at 10:04 PM> Unless the patient used medical marijuana?in which case, hey, feel free > to murder the poor bastard.> > 'A musician who was denied a liver transplant because he used marijuana > with medical approval under Washington state law to ease the symptoms of > advanced hepatitis C died Thursday.> The death of Timothy Garon, 56, at Bailey-Boushay House, an intensive > care nursing center was confirmed to The Associated Press by his > lawyer?. Dr. Brad Roter, the physician who authorized Garon to smoke pot > to alleviate for nausea and abdominal pain and to stimulate his > appetite, said he did not know it would be such a hurdle if Garon were > to need a transplant.> Garon died a week after his doctor told him a University of Washington > Medical Center committee had again denied him a spot on the liver > transplant list because of his use of marijuana, although it was > authorized under Washington state law.'> > > The sadists at the University of Washington Medical Center?and Swedish > Medical Center?didn?t just deny this guy a transplant. They really > seemed to get off on torturing this dying man. Check out these details > from the PI report:> > 'He had been in the hospice for two months and previously was rejected > for a transplant at Swedish Medical Center for the same reason he later > got from the university hospital.> Swedish said he would be considered if he avoided pot for six months and > the university hospital offered to reconsider if he enrolled in a 60-day > drug treatment program, but doctors said his liver disease was too > advanced for him to last that long. The university hospital committee > agreed to reconsider anyway, then denied him again.'> > > > > Here again are those numbers?> > UW Division of Transplant: (206) 598-6700> > The fax number: (206) 598-0628> > The chief of the division is Jorge D. Reyes: reyesjd at u.washington.edu> > The director is Kay Wicks: kwicks at u.washington.edu> > The full directory for transplant staff is over here.> > > > +================================================================+> This message was sent to phillipfiuty at hotmail.com. > To remove yourself from this email list, send email to> harmred-unsubscribe at list1.ga3.org > or visit your personal subscription management page at: > http://ga0.org/drcnet/smp.tcl?s=++kd8wg6rzmm3i35.> This email is Powered by Convio, Inc. http://www.convio.com> +================================================================+
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From dana at phantom.com  Fri May  2 16:11:57 2008
From: dana at phantom.com (Dana Beal)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 16:11:57 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Session AFTER IHRA Conference in Barcelona
Message-ID: <BB851C68-16A4-42EA-AF8A-2BC8BC340F3E@phantom.com>

From: 	  ben at lunartproductions.com
Subject: 	Re: Iboga?na y su potencialidad en las terapias de adicciones.


Hi all,

Here is the update on the event of the 17th of May;

The location is arranged and very beautiful (I went yesterday night  
to meet with the director and felt a very good vibe and a beautiful  
space). I think about 100-150 people can fit in. They have chairs for  
100 people. There is a basic speaker-installation with DVD player and  
I will bring my computer to do the powerpoint. It is a mac, is that a  
problem? I still have to fix 2 microphones. The projector and screen  
are perfect. There is a bar where they will sell drinks and some  
small things to eat. The small room will also be opened in case there  
are too many people to fit in the bar (which is much smaller than the  
main room). It is on the first floor of a house in a very nice area.  
We do need to place signs downstairs so people can easily find it. I  
will take care of that (make some posters of the flyer I made (which  
you can find in the attachment). I took pictures, but didn't have the  
time to put them in my computer before leaving for Amsterdam. My  
girlfriend will send them to me soon and then I'll pass them to you.

I had a meeting with Saxta, very nice guy full of passion. He has an  
interpreter (he will conform today if he will be able to do it that  
day). The companies I approached were all in the 800,- euro range, so  
very good he has a person. The person is 50 years old, a man who used  
to drive the methadone bus for a while, familiar with the matter and  
owns a rich vocabulary on this subject. Because of his age he doesn't  
get a lot of work as an interpreter anymore, so he does these things  
for a cheap, symbolic price said Saxta. I will let you know as soon  
as I receive the confirmation.
Satxa is also organizing a presentation of my film with the 25th  
anniversary of his organization Guia, as he believes more people  
should know about Ibogaine within the organization, so that's great  
too. And he also told me that I should do a presentation in ALA some  
day for the drug users that miss this event... the more the better.
I also spoke with him about some people that are interested in doing  
sessions in Barcelona. Eric Taub emailed me that there is a woman in  
Serbia called Olga, who after her son being treated with Ibogaine,  
got some training and treated about 25 people. She is very interested  
in coming to Barcelona to start working in that field. I guess there  
would also be people in Barcelona, working in the field of addiction  
treatment who would be interested in taking part in such a center.  
Anyways, Saxta told me (as he discussed with Dimitri and Michael)  
that he things the best way to go is to do an official proposal to  
the ministry of health for an experimental Ibogaine research program  
(as they managed to get setup with Ayahuasca too, with government  
money). He has contacts to make the part of dealing with the  
government more doable. I know that Sandra from the ITH is also been  
working hard on that in Vancouver (Ibogaine as a natural health  
product). Maybe we could try to connect some people and see if that  
can be done.

Anyways, in the attachment you find the flyer I made for the event  
that I will distribute in the addiction and harm reduction centers  
the week before the event. The same text was placed in the Canamo  
magazine (I got a copy and it's perfect; 24.000 people buy the  
magazine). I'm setting up an email too in Spanish, English and  
Catalan and from the moment the translations are done I will send it  
to you too. After that it goes to a very long email list of all the  
organizations in Barcelona.

Looking forward to meeting you all,

Best Wishes,


Ben De Loenen
-------------------------------------
LunArt Productions
Westerdok 91
1013AZ Amsterdam
+31624841232 (Holland)
+34662280065 (Spain)
ben at lunartproductions.com
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From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Fri May  2 17:13:19 2008
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 21:13:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: [HARMRED]  Hep C med marijuana patient dies
Message-ID: <49863.85521.qm@web28615.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I honestly would not believe a story like this had I heard it in conversation. Are things really that crazy? I thought; maybe; we were making some progress as people but still it some times feels like we may as well be living in the dark ages. You would expect medical professionals would have more compassion in general. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, 2 May, 2008 8:37:38 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: [HARMRED] Hep C med marijuana patient dies



> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 06:25:57 +0000
> From: kris_sos at speakeasy.net
> To: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com
> Subject: [HARMRED] Hep C med marijuana patient dies
> To: harmred at list1.ga3.org
> 
> relevant links:
> 
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_medical_marijuana_death.html
> 
> 
> http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/first_do_no_harm
> (the commenters here could use some education...so weigh in)
> 
> 
> First, Do No Harm
> posted by DAN SAVAGE on MAY 1 at 10:04 PM
> Unless the patient used medical marijuana?in which case, hey, feel free 
> to murder the poor bastard.
> 
> 'A musician who was denied a liver transplant because he used marijuana 
> with medical approval under Washington state law to ease the symptoms of 
> advanced hepatitis C died Thursday.
> The death of Timothy Garon, 56, at Bailey-Boushay House, an intensive 
> care nursing center was confirmed to The Associated Press by his 
> lawyer?. Dr. Brad Roter, the physician who authorized Garon to smoke pot 
> to alleviate for nausea and abdominal pain and to stimulate his 
> appetite, said he did not know it would be such a hurdle if Garon were 
> to need a transplant.
> Garon died a week after his doctor told him a University of Washington 
> Medical Center committee had again denied him a spot on the liver 
> transplant list because of his use of marijuana, although it was 
> authorized under Washington state law.'
> 
> 
> The sadists at the University of Washington Medical Center?and Swedish 
> Medical Center?didn?t just deny this guy a transplant. They really 
> seemed to get off on torturing this dying man. Check out these details 
> from the PI report:
> 
> 'He had been in the hospice for two months and previously was rejected 
> for a transplant at Swedish Medical Center for the same reason he later 
> got from the university hospital.
> Swedish said he would be considered if he avoided pot for six months and 
> the university hospital offered to reconsider if he enrolled in a 60-day 
> drug treatment program, but doctors said his liver disease was too 
> advanced for him to last that long. The university hospital committee 
> agreed to reconsider anyway, then denied him again.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here again are those numbers?
> 
> UW Division of Transplant: (206) 598-6700
> 
> The fax number: (206) 598-0628
> 
> The chief of the division is Jorge D. Reyes: reyesjd at u.washington.edu
> 
> The director is Kay Wicks: kwicks at u.washington.edu
> 
> The full directory for transplant staff is over here.
> 
> 
> 
> +================================================================+
> This message was sent to phillipfiuty at hotmail.com. 
> To remove yourself from this email list, send email to
> harmred-unsubscribe at list1.ga3.org 
> or visit your personal subscription management page at: 
> http://ga0.org/drcnet/smp.tcl?s=++kd8wg6rzmm3i35.
> This email is Powered by Convio, Inc. http://www.convio.com
> +================================================================+

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From luke.christoffersen at gmail.com  Fri May  2 17:39:37 2008
From: luke.christoffersen at gmail.com (Luke Christoffersen)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:39:37 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: [HARMRED] Hep C med marijuana patient dies
In-Reply-To: <49863.85521.qm@web28615.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <49863.85521.qm@web28615.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4c90d90805021439q53f1fbeegc3f33599171376e2@mail.gmail.com>

There's a lot of sick fucks in the world.  In Ireland hospitals were
removing deceased babies organs and filling the bodies with sand.
There are some people that enjoy using their position to abuse power.


On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:13 PM, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I honestly would not believe a story like this had I heard it in
> conversation. Are things really that crazy? I thought; maybe; we were making
> some progress as people but still it some times feels like we may as well be
> living in the dark ages. You would expect medical professionals would have
> more compassion in general.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Fiuty <phillipfiuty at hotmail.com>
> To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Friday, 2 May, 2008 8:37:38 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: [HARMRED] Hep C med marijuana patient dies
>
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 06:25:57 +0000
> > From: kris_sos at speakeasy.net
> > To: phillipfiuty at hotmail.com
> > Subject: [HARMRED] Hep C med marijuana patient dies
> > To: harmred at list1.ga3.org
> >
> > relevant links:
> >
> > http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_medical_marijuana_death.html
> >
> >
> > http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/first_do_no_harm
> > (the commenters here could use some education...so weigh in)
> >
> >
> > First, Do No Harm
> > posted by DAN SAVAGE on MAY 1 at 10:04 PM
> > Unless the patient used medical marijuana?in which case, hey, feel free
> > to murder the poor bastard.
> >
> > 'A musician who was denied a liver transplant because he used marijuana
> > with medical approval under Washington state law to ease the symptoms of
> > advanced hepatitis C died Thursday.
> > The death of Timothy Garon, 56, at Bailey-Boushay House, an intensive
> > care nursing center was confirmed to The Associated Press by his
> > lawyer?. Dr. Brad Roter, the physician who authorized Garon to smoke pot
> > to alleviate for nausea and abdominal pain and to stimulate his
> > appetite, said he did not know it would be such a hurdle if Garon were
> > to need a transplant.
> > Garon died a week after his doctor told him a University of Washington
> > Medical Center committee had again denied him a spot on the liver
> > transplant list because of his use of marijuana, although it was
> > authorized under Washington state law.'
> >
> >
> > The sadists at the University of Washington Medical Center?and Swedish
> > Medical Center?didn't just deny this guy a transplant. They really
> > seemed to get off on torturing this dying man. Check out these details
> > from the PI report:
> >
> > 'He had been in the hospice for two months and previously was rejected
> > for a transplant at Swedish Medical Center for the same reason he later
> > got from the university hospital.
> > Swedish said he would be considered if he avoided pot for six months and
> > the university hospital offered to reconsider if he enrolled in a 60-day
> > drug treatment program, but doctors said his liver disease was too
> > advanced for him to last that long. The university hospital committee
> > agreed to reconsider anyway, then denied him again.'
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Here again are those numbers?
> >
> > UW Division of Transplant: (206) 598-6700
> >
> > The fax number: (206) 598-0628
> >
> > The chief of the division is Jorge D. Reyes: reyesjd at u.washington.edu
> >
> > The director is Kay Wicks: kwicks at u.washington.edu
> >
> > The full directory for transplant staff is over here.
> >
> >
> >
> > +================================================================+
> > This message was sent to phillipfiuty at hotmail.com.
> > To remove yourself