From sara119 at xs4all.nl  Sat Mar  1 04:03:46 2008
From: sara119 at xs4all.nl (Sara Glatt)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 10:03:46 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
Message-ID: <17636.80.127.42.14.1204362226.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

> Hi Ibo family, just OT for a second, my boy is finally here and just the
> cutest little thing, thought some of you might like to see him!  Apres Ibo
> Baby!!!
> http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm
>
>
> CONGARTULATIONS KAPTAIN KOIK!

MANY HAPPY YEARS TO ENJOY!

LOVE,

Sara  
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
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From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com  Sat Mar  1 07:45:45 2008
From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 07:45:45 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
In-Reply-To: <17636.80.127.42.14.1204362226.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <17636.80.127.42.14.1204362226.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1f5488f0803010445v5d3eb9bje4032a618d8b1147@mail.gmail.com>

beautiful )



On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 4:03 AM, Sara Glatt <sara119 at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> > Hi Ibo family, just OT for a second, my boy is finally here and just the
> > cutest little thing, thought some of you might like to see him!  Apres
> Ibo
> > Baby!!!
> > http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm
> >
> >
> > CONGARTULATIONS KAPTAIN KOIK!
>
> MANY HAPPY YEARS TO ENJOY!
>
> LOVE,
>
> Sara
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> >
> >   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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-- 


http://www.maps.org
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From hslotsof at phantom.com  Sat Mar  1 09:30:58 2008
From: hslotsof at phantom.com (Howard Lotsof)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:30:58 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
In-Reply-To: <881932.58003.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <881932.58003.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20C6187F-47EE-4E00-BE7E-49028633450F@phantom.com>

Perfect Kirsty,

You and Memphis bring light to my world...to the universe.

Howard


Thanks for the wonderful  photos.


Howard

On Feb 29, 2008, at 11:57 PM, Capt Kirk wrote:

> Hi Ibo family, just OT for a second, my boy is finally here and  
> just the cutest little thing, thought some of you might like to see  
> him!  Apres Ibo Baby!!!
>
> http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  
> Try it now.
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
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From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar  1 10:22:36 2008
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:22:36 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Record for Afghan poppy planting
Message-ID: <640055.50106.qm@web27603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Nothing else grows there; I wish they would just get the pharmaceutical companies to buy the opium then instead of terrorising people who are just trying to make a living. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, 1 March, 2008 1:30:10 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Record for Afghan poppy planting


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm
 
 
 Last Updated: Friday, 29 February 2008, 18:34 GMT 

E-mail this to a friend Printable version 


 
Record for Afghan poppy planting 
Helmand province (2007)" src="http://uk.f276.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f87998%5fAN6xktkAATJ8R8iXHgpS%2fWe2PQw&pid=1.6&fid=Inbox&inline=1" width=203 border=0>
Southern provinces are the source of most Afghan poppy production
Opium poppy production in Afghanistan reached another record high last year and Kabul must do more to stop it, a US State Department report says. 
The report says that the poppy cultivation helps Taleban insurgents obtain money and weapons. 
The drug trade hinders progress towards economic stability and democracy, the report adds. 
Afghanistan grows nearly all of the world's opium poppy crop in an illegal trade worth billions of dollars. 
"Eliminating narcotics cultivation and trafficking in Afghanistan will require a long-term national and international commitment," said the State Department. 
"The Afghan government must take decisive action against poppy cultivation soon to turn back the drug threat before its further growth and consolidation make it even more difficult to defeat." 
The report says production of the poppy was up more than a third on 2006 and good weather helped increase the yield of land already under cultivation. 
In a report published at the beginning of February, the UN estimated that the amount of opium poppy cultivated in the volatile southern provinces would increase this year. 
But the UN's assessment also predicted the overall harvest would be "similar to or lower than" last year's record-breaking level.   


Poppy-free provinces 
The UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) based its findings on interviews in almost 500 villages. 
Afghanistan says it is making progress on curbing poppy cultivation by persuading farmers not to plant and through destroying poppy fields. 
Acting counter-narcotics minister General Khodaidad, in an interview with Reuters news agency, said he was optimistic. 
"We are doing better than last year and will have more poppy-free provinces this year," he said. 
The growth in Afghanistan 's opium crop began in earnest after the overthrow of the Taleban by US-led and Afghan forces in 2001. 
 


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


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From daniras at argon.com.br  Sat Mar  1 10:38:29 2008
From: daniras at argon.com.br (Dr.Bruno D.Rasmussen Chaves)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:38:29 -0300
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
References: <881932.58003.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006801c87bb3$e3579770$437041bd@DRBRUNO>

Congratulations!!! Best wishes from me and from my two boys too!!!

Bruno
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Capt Kirk 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:57 AM
  Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby


  Hi Ibo family, just OT for a second, my boy is finally here and just the cutest little thing, thought some of you might like to see him!  Apres Ibo Baby!!!

  http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar  1 12:02:09 2008
From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:02:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Ibogaine] congrats
Message-ID: <347941.15991.qm@web27609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

CONGRATS KOIK'Y


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From doranman2 at gmail.com  Sat Mar  1 12:18:11 2008
From: doranman2 at gmail.com (Scott Doran)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:18:11 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Record for Afghan poppy planting
In-Reply-To: <154469.81135.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <154469.81135.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <394bc6bd0803010918p73754269udf93b1527ad51b30@mail.gmail.com>

The "Politics of Heroin" makes for an eye opening read detailing how our
CIA, after WWII, made an unholy alliance with organized crime and helped
build the infrastructure which smuggled heroin on a vast scale. Currently
the DEA is heavily infiltrated with CIA agents who are in collusion with
crime syndicates. Drugs are the underground currency which finances
everything that Congress doesn't know about. Recently a couple of abandoned
planes where picked up in Mexico and Central America which were traced to a
corporate shell that appears to be a CIA front according to reports from the
underground media.
It would be so much easier to create a world where addicts would receive
more support in the form of effective treatment, jobs, healthcare, and a
stable social fabric.

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> right,WE MUST ERADICATE THE POPPYS!!!!!except for the poppys we will need
> for all of the worlds suply for medicine.otherwise,WE WILL ERADICATE THE
> POPPYS!!!well, i mean,except if we are trying to help out our newist members
> of the international community,the afganies i mean that unless these farmers
> have the chance to yeld a decent crop,they might go over to the other
> side...but otherwise,WE MUST ERADICATE,ERADICATE,DESTROY THE POPPYS!!!
> well,OK,unless tjere OUR poppys,then that would be dumb, i mean we payed for
> that shit and that shit is OURS!so,WE MUST DESTROY THE POPPYS!!!!!!!  i
> guess.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 6:30:10 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Record for Afghan poppy planting
>
>  *http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm*
>
> *  *
>
> *  *
>
>
>
> Last Updated: Friday, 29 February 2008, 18:34 GMT
>
>
> <http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm><http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm>E-mail
> this to a friend
> <http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm>
>
>
> <http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm><http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm>Printable
> version
> <http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7271654.stm>
>
>
>
> *Record for Afghan poppy planting *
>
> [image: US soldier inspects poppy fields in Helmand province (2007)]
>
> Southern provinces are the source of most Afghan poppy production
>
> *Opium poppy production in Afghanistan reached another record high last
> year and Kabul must do more to stop it, a US State Department report says.
> *
>
> The report says that the poppy cultivation helps Taleban insurgents obtain
> money and weapons.
>
> The drug trade hinders progress towards economic stability and democracy,
> the report adds.
>
> Afghanistan grows nearly all of the world's opium poppy crop in an illegal
> trade worth billions of dollars.
>
> "Eliminating narcotics cultivation and trafficking in Afghanistan will
> require a long-term national and international commitment," said the State
> Department.
>
> "The Afghan government must take decisive action against poppy cultivation
> soon to turn back the drug threat before its further growth and
> consolidation make it even more difficult to defeat."
>
> The report says production of the poppy was up more than a third on 2006
> and good weather helped increase the yield of land already under
> cultivation.
>
> In a report published at the beginning of February, the UN estimated that
> the amount of opium poppy cultivated in the volatile southern provinces
> would increase this year.
>
> But the UN's assessment also predicted the overall harvest would be
> "similar to or lower than" last year's record-breaking level.
>
>
>
>
>
>   *Poppy-free provinces*
>
> The UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) based its findings on interviews
> in almost 500 villages.
>
> Afghanistan says it is making progress on curbing poppy cultivation by
> persuading farmers not to plant and through destroying poppy fields.
>
> Acting counter-narcotics minister General Khodaidad, in an interview with
> Reuters news agency, said he was optimistic.
>
> "We are doing better than last year and will have more poppy-free
> provinces this year," he said.
>
> The growth in Afghanistan 's opium crop began in earnest after the
> overthrow of the Taleban by US-led and Afghan forces in 2001.
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping>
>
>
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>
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From momma at vcn.bc.ca  Sat Mar  1 12:44:17 2008
From: momma at vcn.bc.ca (momma at vcn.bc.ca)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:44:17 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
In-Reply-To: <006801c87bb3$e3579770$437041bd@DRBRUNO>
References: <881932.58003.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<006801c87bb3$e3579770$437041bd@DRBRUNO>
Message-ID: <0JX200KV5CK1ID10@l-daemon>

Congrats Mom,Dad and Granma! Babies seem to make evrything in the 
world all that much better!

carolr


At 07:38 AM 3/1/08, you wrote:

>Congratulations!!! Best wishes from me and from my two boys too!!!
>
>Bruno
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk>Capt Kirk
>To: <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>The Ibogaine List
>Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:57 AM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
>
>Hi Ibo family, just OT for a second, my boy is finally here and just 
>the cutest little thing, thought some of you might like to see 
>him!  Apres Ibo Baby!!!
>
><http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm>http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm
>
>
>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>Try 
>it now.
>
>
>----------
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.2/1304 - Release Date: 
>2/29/08 8:18 AM


From dana at phantom.com  Sat Mar  1 16:42:17 2008
From: dana at phantom.com (Dana Beal)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:42:17 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drinking makes heart grow more sorrowful, study finds
Message-ID: <5B11657A-3798-4057-BAB5-E8DEEF720CB6@phantom.com>


Fri Feb 29, 1:59 AM ET

The age-old belief goes that alcohol helps people drown their  
sorrows, but
in truth the bottle only makes bad memories linger, a Japanese study  
said
Friday.

Researchers at the University of Tokyo concluded that ethanol -- an
intoxicating agent in alcohol -- does not cause memory to decrease, as
widely believed, but instead locks it in place.

The researchers, led by pharmacology professor Norio Matsuki, gave mild
shocks to lab rats to condition them to fear. As a result, the rats  
would
freeze in terror and curl up the moment they were put in their cages.

Researchers then immediately injected the rats with ethanol or saline.

The researchers found that rats with alcohol in their veins froze up for
longer, with the fear on average lasting two weeks, compared with  
rats that
did not receive injections.

"If we apply this study to humans, the memories they are trying to  
get rid
of will remain strongly, even if they drink alcohol to try to forget an
event they dislike and be in a merry mood for the moment," the study  
said.

"The following day, they won't remember the merriness that they  
felt," it
said.

Matsuki said the findings offered lessons for people living with bad
memories.

"To forget something you dislike, it's best to overwrite the negative  
memory
with a positive memory at an early stage and leave out drinking  
alcohol,"
Matsuki advised.

The study was published in the US academic journal  
Neuropsychopharmacology.



From jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  1 17:23:07 2008
From: jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com (Adam Nodelman)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:23:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drinking makes heart grow more sorrowful, study finds
Message-ID: <286722.93346.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

replacing negative memorys with early positive memories?sounds like the iboga effect to me.adam

----- Original Message ----
From: Dana Beal <dana at phantom.com>
To: "The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:42:17 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drinking makes heart grow more sorrowful, study finds


Fri Feb 29, 1:59 AM ET

The age-old belief goes that alcohol helps people drown their  
sorrows, but
in truth the bottle only makes bad memories linger, a Japanese study  
said
Friday.

Researchers at the University of Tokyo concluded that ethanol -- an
intoxicating agent in alcohol -- does not cause memory to decrease, as
widely believed, but instead locks it in place.

The researchers, led by pharmacology professor Norio Matsuki, gave mild
shocks to lab rats to condition them to fear. As a result, the rats  
would
freeze in terror and curl up the moment they were put in their cages.

Researchers then immediately injected the rats with ethanol or saline.

The researchers found that rats with alcohol in their veins froze up for
longer, with the fear on average lasting two weeks, compared with  
rats that
did not receive injections.

"If we apply this study to humans, the memories they are trying to  
get rid
of will remain strongly, even if they drink alcohol to try to forget an
event they dislike and be in a merry mood for the moment," the study  
said.

"The following day, they won't remember the merriness that they  
felt," it
said.

Matsuki said the findings offered lessons for people living with bad
memories.

"To forget something you dislike, it's best to overwrite the negative  
memory
with a positive memory at an early stage and leave out drinking  
alcohol,"
Matsuki advised.

The study was published in the US academic journal  
Neuropsychopharmacology.


 
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      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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From bicuitboy714 at gmail.com  Sat Mar  1 18:37:15 2008
From: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com (Randy Faulconer)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:37:15 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drinking makes heart grow more sorrowful, study finds
In-Reply-To: <286722.93346.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <286722.93346.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29d165a30803011537r633e51bbne9e674e06d945202@mail.gmail.com>

         I wish I could get  my son to believe this report. He is
absolutely drinking himself to death over breaking up with his girl
and not being around his child. I can understand the pain from being
absent from his son's life, but he has got to figure out that this
girl is playing him like a harmonica, and that drinking just makes him
stupid, STUPID!!!!!!! I know, I'm an alcoholic and stupid to boot.
Drinking just makes me stupider and stoopiter and stuuupither. Where
am I??

          Peace Love and Pure Grain
               Brandy

On 3/1/08, Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com> wrote:
> replacing negative memorys with early positive memories?sounds like the
> iboga effect to me.adam
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dana Beal <dana at phantom.com>
> To: "The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:42:17 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Drinking makes heart grow more sorrowful, study finds
>
>
> Fri Feb 29, 1:59 AM ET
>
> The age-old belief goes that alcohol helps people drown their
> sorrows, but
> in truth the bottle only makes bad memories linger, a Japanese study
> said
> Friday.
>
> Researchers at the University of Tokyo concluded that ethanol -- an
> intoxicating agent in alcohol -- does not cause memory to decrease, as
> widely believed, but instead locks it in place.
>
> The researchers, led by pharmacology professor Norio Matsuki, gave mild
> shocks to lab rats to condition them to fear. As a result, the rats
> would
> freeze in terror and curl up the moment they were put in their cages.
>
> Researchers then immediately injected the rats with ethanol or saline.
>
> The researchers found that rats with alcohol in their veins froze up for
> longer, with the fear on average lasting two weeks, compared with
> rats that
> did not receive injections.
>
> "If we apply this study to humans, the memories they are trying to
> get rid
> of will remain strongly, even if they drink alcohol to try to forget an
> event they dislike and be in a merry mood for the moment," the study
> said.
>
> "The following day, they won't remember the merriness that they
> felt," it
> said.
>
> Matsuki said the findings offered lessons for people living with bad
> memories.
>
> "To forget something you dislike, it's best to overwrite the negative
> memory
> with a positive memory at an early stage and leave out drinking
> alcohol,"
> Matsuki advised.
>
> The study was published in the US academic journal
> Neuropsychopharmacology.
>
>
>
> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>

From prestonpeet at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:45:11 2008
From: prestonpeet at yahoo.com (Preston Peet)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:45:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Hi everybody- invite for a play i'm in
Message-ID: <732476.84014.qm@web63007.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

HI all,    
I very much look forward to seing this play dealing with addiction, drugs, an dea,th, starring on a NYC stage the lovely, if heartkilling, V. She's still cool in my book.


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Vanessa Cleary <vcleary at nyc.rr.com>
To: djness13 at yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:56:50 PM
Subject: Hi everybody- invite for a play i'm in


hey everybody
this is the play I've been working on. starts running next thurs. march 6th.
content is a little edgy..  rated R
 
peace and love
~Vanessa
 
EndTimes Presents ? Angel Shit March 6th thru April 12th 2008


this message contains graphics.  if you can't see them click: here 
_____________________________________________________________ 

EndTimes Productions presents: Angel Shit
A circle of Nebraskan junkies find themselves at the bloody epicenter of the War on Drugs 
in Ian Allen?s lurid black comedy.

?Crass! ... Funny! ... Unforgivable! ... A celebration of sleaze!?  - Washington City Paper

March 6th thru April 12th 2008 
at EndTimes Underground @ the Gene Frankel Theatre
24 Bond Street, NYC 10012
Tickets are $20 at the door, $15 with a reservation or Student ID.

Showtimes are Fri & Sat nights @10:30pm 
(Special pay-what-you-can Preview nights: Thurs March 6th & 13th 2008 @10:30pm)

Cast (in order of appearance)
Vanessa Cleary, Jessica Ko, Serena Miller, Martha Lee, Matthew Watkins, Kendra Jewell, Patrick McDaniel, Matthew Hadley, Anthony Mead, Alessandro Colla

Written by - Ian Allen     Directed by - Russell Dobular
Jeremy Pape - Assistant Director     Mariel Matos - Production Stage Manager
Christopher Shepard - Choreographer     Jimmy Blackman - Fight Choreographer
___________________________________________________________________
to join the EndTimes Productions mailing list click: here
to remove yourself from our mailing list and not recieve any further Emails click: here



Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. 


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From pdr at echonyc.com  Sun Mar  2 12:18:54 2008
From: pdr at echonyc.com (Paul DeRienzo)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 12:18:54 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Addiction article
In-Reply-To: <29d165a30802280516n6b317be8w984f92ba431b612@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8507.80.127.42.14.1204101901.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<486104.44914.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<29d165a30802280516n6b317be8w984f92ba431b612@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F45D67DB-8937-422D-BD0F-55821A31F861@echonyc.com>



Read our article in PorEsto! about the Ibogaine forum in Washington,  
D.C. last month. The article is in Spanish.

http://www.poresto.net/content/view/2550/53/

Learn more about Mario Menendez and PorEsto! at pdr.autono.net/ 
poresto.html

Paul

Paul DeRienzo and Joan Moossy host Let Them Talk live Tuesday at 8 PM  
on Manhattan Neighborhood Network 56 and on the web at mnn.org.

Check out our channel at http://youtube.com/letemtalk


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From aktionman at phantom.com  Sun Mar  2 13:23:11 2008
From: aktionman at phantom.com (aktionman at phantom.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 13:23:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Addiction article
In-Reply-To: <F45D67DB-8937-422D-BD0F-55821A31F861@echonyc.com>
References: <8507.80.127.42.14.1204101901.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<486104.44914.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<29d165a30802280516n6b317be8w984f92ba431b612@mail.gmail.com>
	<F45D67DB-8937-422D-BD0F-55821A31F861@echonyc.com>
Message-ID: <48362.75.22.196.249.1204482191.squirrel@phantom.com>

is there a translation ?
marcus



> Read our article in PorEsto! about the Ibogaine forum in Washington,
> D.C. last month. The article is in Spanish.
>
> http://www.poresto.net/content/view/2550/53/
>
> Learn more about Mario Menendez and PorEsto! at pdr.autono.net/
> poresto.html
>
> Paul
>
> Paul DeRienzo and Joan Moossy host Let Them Talk live Tuesday at 8 PM
> on Manhattan Neighborhood Network 56 and on the web at mnn.org.
>
> Check out our channel at http://youtube.com/letemtalk
>
>
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>



From hslotsof at phantom.com  Sun Mar  2 15:29:40 2008
From: hslotsof at phantom.com (Howard Lotsof)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 15:29:40 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Addiction article
In-Reply-To: <48362.75.22.196.249.1204482191.squirrel@phantom.com>
References: <8507.80.127.42.14.1204101901.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<486104.44914.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<29d165a30802280516n6b317be8w984f92ba431b612@mail.gmail.com>
	<F45D67DB-8937-422D-BD0F-55821A31F861@echonyc.com>
	<48362.75.22.196.249.1204482191.squirrel@phantom.com>
Message-ID: <B0AB6C44-3D06-427D-AD94-1443AFD9B8D1@phantom.com>

Use a google translator.  http://www.google.com/translate_t

Howard

On Mar 2, 2008, at 1:23 PM, aktionman at phantom.com wrote:

> is there a translation ?
> marcus
>
>
>
>> Read our article in PorEsto! about the Ibogaine forum in Washington,
>> D.C. last month. The article is in Spanish.
>>
>> http://www.poresto.net/content/view/2550/53/
>>
>> Learn more about Mario Menendez and PorEsto! at pdr.autono.net/
>> poresto.html
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul DeRienzo and Joan Moossy host Let Them Talk live Tuesday at 8 PM
>> on Manhattan Neighborhood Network 56 and on the web at mnn.org.
>>
>> Check out our channel at http://youtube.com/letemtalk
>>
>>
>>
>>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
>> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-
>>
>
>
>
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> (][%]  :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::  [%][)
>   -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=-


From wleetheriot at ca.rr.com  Sun Mar  2 17:43:11 2008
From: wleetheriot at ca.rr.com (Warren L. Theriot)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:43:11 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
In-Reply-To: <881932.58003.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <881932.58003.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <90CCE801-B591-4B5A-B6DA-A36B60DA4FE8@ca.rr.com>

Hi Kirk,
What a cute baby! Congratulations!
Best Wishes,
Warren

On Feb 29, 2008, at 8:57 PM, Capt Kirk wrote:

> Hi Ibo family, just OT for a second, my boy is finally here and  
> just the cutest little thing, thought some of you might like to see  
> him!  Apres Ibo Baby!!!
>
> http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  
> Try it now.
>
>   -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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From prestonpeet at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  2 18:30:40 2008
From: prestonpeet at yahoo.com (Preston Peet)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 15:30:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby
Message-ID: <37310.92503.qm@web63012.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

how'd you get so good at photoshopping Captain? I mean, it IS a proven fact that ALL illegal drugs cause three-headed, pointed tails and horns on newborn human children, or so I've heard, so....
Where'd the other heads go on this near as I can tell from these photos near perfectly gorgeous child?


----- Original Message ----
From: Capt Kirk <captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:57:41 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT:- post ibo baby


Hi Ibo family, just OT for a second, my boy is finally here and just the cutest little thing, thought some of you might like to see him!  Apres Ibo Baby!!!
http://www.nzconnectdirect.com/baby/index.htm



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


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From jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 00:45:18 2008
From: jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com (Adam Nodelman)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 21:45:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
Message-ID: <611024.25709.qm@web37412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction components involving suboxone were
 powerful;no stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to
 use opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From dcollier9 at cox.net  Mon Mar  3 08:41:36 2008
From: dcollier9 at cox.net (DC in AZ)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 06:41:36 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
References: <611024.25709.qm@web37412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <013b01c87d34$4dc22680$1000a8c0@laptop1>

dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on us.

next, does weed help ?

next, try another doctor who will leave out the maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.

then let us know how it goes, you are helping all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually roll off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
(its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in moderation, for some that are strong)

hang in there,  try and solve this.

may love find us daily 
****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adam Nodelman 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 PM
  Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From doranman2 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 08:46:55 2008
From: doranman2 at gmail.com (Scott Doran)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:46:55 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
In-Reply-To: <611024.25709.qm@web37412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <611024.25709.qm@web37412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <394bc6bd0803030546u13642f5bqf6e0b7a979559cf5@mail.gmail.com>

Has your Doctor checked your liver enzymes?

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel
> like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use
> of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long
> time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or
> short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i
> can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just
> stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level
> coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other
> word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the
> time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell
> me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other
> things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the
> point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction
> components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors
> office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5
> or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative
> way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+
> naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative
> effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a
> successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that
> methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and
> that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the
> suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20
> mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still
> beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason
> there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking
> effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use
> opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and
> needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot
> of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a
> fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that
> i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or
> immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a
> wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm
> on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and
> experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel
> normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on
> dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!
>
> ------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping>
>
>
>  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-
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>
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From jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 09:13:51 2008
From: jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com (Adam Nodelman)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 06:13:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
Message-ID: <327839.19871.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

yes weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's don't always make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip on this;i don't think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant frustrations equals "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of throwing my responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no my doctor wont or cant give me the option of the bupe without the naltrexone.options? not where i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the least amount of stigmatic infection and/or one without a  blatant anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and thinks that anyone complaining about the meds just wants to get high.and that's the best there is up here in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you kidding me?im lucky that my insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and threatening to cut me off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other thing i did not mention;its not easy to get off of.

----- Original Message ----
From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:41:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)

     DIV { MARGIN:0px;}    dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on  us.
  
 next, does weed help ?
  
 next, try another doctor who will leave out the  maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.
  
 then let us know how it goes, you are helping  all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
 if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually roll  off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
 (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in  moderation, for some that are strong)
  
 hang in there,  try and solve  this.
  
 may love find us daily 
 ****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love  converts hearts, and gives  peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

    ----- Original Message ----- 
   From:    Adam Nodelman 
   To: The Ibogaine List 
   Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45    PM
   Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of    suboxone(naltrexone?)
   

      how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i    feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued    use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long    time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or    short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i     can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i    feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going    of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its    frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to    and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we    need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and    depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of    elation;the harm reduction
 components involving suboxone were powerful;no    stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily    life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and    profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction    property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a    growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to    dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who    knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late    60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to    keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least    10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet    still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason    there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones
 blocking    effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use    opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and    needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of    people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a    fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i    require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or    immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a    wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on    something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and    experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel    normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope    now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 09:13:58 2008
From: jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com (Adam Nodelman)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 06:13:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
Message-ID: <117042.53431.qm@web37415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

yes weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's don't always make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip on this;i don't think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant frustrations equals "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of throwing my responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no my doctor wont or cant give me the option of the bupe without the naltrexone.options? not where i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the least amount of stigmatic infection and/or one without a  blatant anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and thinks that anyone complaining about the meds just wants to get high.and that's the best there is up here in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you kidding me?im lucky that my insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and threatening to cut me off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other thing i did not mention;its not easy to get off of.

----- Original Message ----
From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:41:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)

     DIV { MARGIN:0px;}    dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on  us.
  
 next, does weed help ?
  
 next, try another doctor who will leave out the  maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.
  
 then let us know how it goes, you are helping  all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
 if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually roll  off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
 (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in  moderation, for some that are strong)
  
 hang in there,  try and solve  this.
  
 may love find us daily 
 ****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love  converts hearts, and gives  peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

    ----- Original Message ----- 
   From:    Adam Nodelman 
   To: The Ibogaine List 
   Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45    PM
   Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of    suboxone(naltrexone?)
   

      how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i    feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued    use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long    time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or    short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i     can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i    feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going    of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its    frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to    and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we    need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and    depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of    elation;the harm reduction
 components involving suboxone were powerful;no    stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily    life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and    profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction    property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a    growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to    dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who    knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late    60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to    keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least    10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet    still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason    there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones
 blocking    effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use    opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and    needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of    people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a    fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i    require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or    immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a    wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on    something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and    experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel    normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope    now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From davidkellems at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 09:14:08 2008
From: davidkellems at gmail.com (David Kellems)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:14:08 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
In-Reply-To: <611024.25709.qm@web37412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <611024.25709.qm@web37412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1e9f52ee0803030614o517da939h12682c130183f768@mail.gmail.com>

I had to be rushed to the hospital one night for a severely painful
intestinal blockage. My wife showed the ambulance driver the card they give
you when you're on suboxone.He kept questioning me as to wht the medication
was exactly. It was no better in the ER, and I couunderstand the doctors
reluctance to call the 1-800 number on the card. My pleas for a massive dose
of morphine kept falling on deaf ears - even though I told them my provider
said with my chronic condition I could still receive emergency pain
management, but would require larger doses. Being on sub is definitely
dangerous if you find yourself in a similar situation.

On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel
> like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use
> of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long
> time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or
> short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i
> can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just
> stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level
> coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other
> word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the
> time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell
> me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other
> things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the
> point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction
> components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors
> office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5
> or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative
> way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+
> naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative
> effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a
> successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that
> methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and
> that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the
> suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20
> mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still
> beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason
> there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking
> effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use
> opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and
> needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot
> of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a
> fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that
> i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or
> immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a
> wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm
> on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and
> experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel
> normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on
> dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!
>
> ------------------------------
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>
>
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From dcollier9 at cox.net  Mon Mar  3 09:56:56 2008
From: dcollier9 at cox.net (DC in AZ)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:56:56 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
References: <327839.19871.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <017101c87d3e$d3c6e1d0$1000a8c0@laptop1>

actually managing your own drug intake responsibly (use dont abuse) is an  option that doesnt require
spiralling out, which i use to describe depression, suicide. best wishes

dc
****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adam Nodelman 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  yes weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's don't always make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip on this;i don't think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant frustrations equals "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of throwing my responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no my doctor wont or cant give me the option of the bupe without the naltrexone.options? not where i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the least amount of stigmatic infection and/or one without a  blatant anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and thinks that anyone complaining about the meds just wants to get high.and that's the best there is up here in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you kidding me?im lucky that my insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and threatening to cut me off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other thing i did not mention;its not easy to get off of.


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
  To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
  Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:41:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on us.

  next, does weed help ?

  next, try another doctor who will leave out the maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.

  then let us know how it goes, you are helping all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
  if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually roll off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
  (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in moderation, for some that are strong)

  hang in there,  try and solve this.

  may love find us daily 
  ****************************************************************************************************************************
  Donzo
  "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
  ****************************************************************************************************************************

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Adam Nodelman 
    To: The Ibogaine List 
    Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 PM
    Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


    how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 10:13:29 2008
From: jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com (Adam Nodelman)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:13:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
Message-ID: <4514.68606.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

what ever

----- Original Message ----
From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 9:56:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)

 DIV {
MARGIN:0px;}
actually managing your own drug intake responsibly 
(use dont abuse) is an  option that doesnt require
spiralling out, which i use to 
describe depression, suicide. best wishes
 
dc
****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:   Adam Nodelman 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of   suboxone(naltrexone?)
  

    yes   weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's don't always   make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip on this;i don't   think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant frustrations equals   "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of throwing my   responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no my doctor wont or   cant give me the option of the bupe without the naltrexone.options? not where   i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the least amount of stigmatic infection   and/or one without a  blatant anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and   thinks that anyone complaining about the meds just wants to get high.and   that's the best there is up here in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you   kidding me?im lucky that my insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and   threatening to cut me off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other   thing i did not mention;its
 not easy to get off of.

  -----   Original Message ----
From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
To: The   Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008   8:41:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of   suboxone(naltrexone?)

  DIV {MARGIN:0px;}  dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on 
  us.
   
  next, does weed help ?
   
  next, try another doctor who will leave out the 
  maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.
   
  then let us know how it goes, you are 
  helping all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
  if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually 
  roll off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
  (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in 
  moderation, for some that are strong)
   
  hang in there,  try and solve 
  this.
   
  may love find us daily 
  ****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love   converts hearts, and gives   peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

      ----- 
    Original Message ----- 
    From:     Adam Nodelman 
    To:     The 
    Ibogaine List 
    Sent:     Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 PM
    Subject:     [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
    

        how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i     feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued     use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long     time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or     short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with     naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just     stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming     and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for     it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats     halfway to and from nowhere.my     instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our     endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and     depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm
     reduction components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the     doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after     about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly     negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the     bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing     negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does     not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew     that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late     60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to     keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least     10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet     still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is     a lack off stigma has more to
 do with the naltrexones blocking     effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use     opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high     if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it     should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant     explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of     phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see     where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to     the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this     nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really     sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old     days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now.     AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From dcollier9 at cox.net  Mon Mar  3 10:19:27 2008
From: dcollier9 at cox.net (DC in AZ)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:19:27 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
References: <611024.25709.qm@web37412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1e9f52ee0803030614o517da939h12682c130183f768@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01af01c87d41$f9639b60$1000a8c0@laptop1>

we have got to manage/control our own "medicine" sometimes, we cant depend on a doctor to
do what is right for us, especially in the ER.

that is part of what legalization is all about, showing we can manage better than the current.

****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Kellems 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  I had to be rushed to the hospital one night for a severely painful intestinal blockage. My wife showed the ambulance driver the card they give you when you're on suboxone.He kept questioning me as to wht the medication was exactly. It was no better in the ER, and I couunderstand the doctors reluctance to call the 1-800 number on the card. My pleas for a massive dose of morphine kept falling on deaf ears - even though I told them my provider said with my chronic condition I could still receive emergency pain management, but would require larger doses. Being on sub is definitely dangerous if you find yourself in a similar situation.


  On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com> wrote:

    how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From dcollier9 at cox.net  Mon Mar  3 10:23:05 2008
From: dcollier9 at cox.net (DC in AZ)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:23:05 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
References: <4514.68606.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01c901c87d42$7b09ea20$1000a8c0@laptop1>

this attitude is not what you really are i suspect. you could eventually be absolutely enslaved to bupe-combo, and i really
think you will eventually be better off controlling your own meds dude. it just sounded depressing to me. hope it works out
the way you need it to.

keep hangin.

weed is cheap man.

****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adam Nodelman 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  what ever


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
  To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
  Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 9:56:56 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  actually managing your own drug intake responsibly (use dont abuse) is an  option that doesnt require
  spiralling out, which i use to describe depression, suicide. best wishes

  dc
  ****************************************************************************************************************************
  Donzo
  "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
  ****************************************************************************************************************************

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Adam Nodelman 
    To: The Ibogaine List 
    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:13 AM
    Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


    yes weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's don't always make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip on this;i don't think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant frustrations equals "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of throwing my responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no my doctor wont or cant give me the option of the bupe without the naltrexone.options? not where i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the least amount of stigmatic infection and/or one without a  blatant anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and thinks that anyone complaining about the meds just wants to get high.and that's the best there is up here in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you kidding me?im lucky that my insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and threatening to cut me off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other thing i did not mention;its not easy to get off of.


    ----- Original Message ----
    From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
    To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:41:36 AM
    Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


    dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on us.

    next, does weed help ?

    next, try another doctor who will leave out the maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.

    then let us know how it goes, you are helping all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
    if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually roll off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
    (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in moderation, for some that are strong)

    hang in there,  try and solve this.

    may love find us daily 
    ****************************************************************************************************************************
    Donzo
    "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
    ****************************************************************************************************************************

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Adam Nodelman 
      To: The Ibogaine List 
      Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 PM
      Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


      how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From bicuitboy714 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 11:13:39 2008
From: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com (Randy Faulconer)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:13:39 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
In-Reply-To: <4514.68606.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4514.68606.qm@web37406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29d165a30803030813x2e8a735cv7d1b5ec332f2a9b6@mail.gmail.com>

        Hey bro, I was thinking of calling you the other day. I wish I had
now. I get these feelings sometimes. I'm gonna call you after a while OK? We
have somebody coming to look at our house (it's for sale) at one,but after
that I'm free to do whatever. I'd like to talk to you about this. I tried
bup the last time I was on Methadone. It just didn't work for me. I waited a
week after my last dose of Methadone and got titrated in the doctors office
2 mg's at a time till I got to 8 mg's of the Bupe Naltrexone/Naloxone what
the fuck ever it was, and then went home. I stayed on Bupe for 2 weeks
afterwards and NEVER felt right. I was sick as hell the whole time. I guess
maybe it's harder to go from Methadone to Bupe. Were you doing Methadone
before you got on the Bupe? After this long it shouldn't make any
difference, but I'm just wondering.

      Dude you have more experience than anybody on this list with Ibogaine
so I won't try and tell you anything regarding Ibo, I'll just make a
suggestion. How 'bout a real small booster? Think maybe that will help? I
mean REAL SMALL. May be some root bark.

    Anyway, gotta go right now, but I'll call you after a while cool?

       Hope you read this this morning.

         Peace Love and Patience
             Randy

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:13 AM, Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>  what ever
>
>  ----- Original Message ----
> From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>  Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 9:56:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
>
> actually managing your own drug intake responsibly (use dont abuse) is an
> option that doesnt require
> spiralling out, which i use to describe depression, suicide. best wishes
>
> dc
>
> ****************************************************************************************************************************
> Donzo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>
> ****************************************************************************************************************************
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 03, 2008 7:13 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
>
>  yes weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's
> don't always make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip
> on this;i don't think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant
> frustrations equals "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of
> throwing my responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no
> my doctor wont or cant give me the option of the bupe without the
> naltrexone.options? not where i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the
> least amount of stigmatic infection and/or one without a  blatant
> anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and thinks that anyone complaining
> about the meds just wants to get high.and that's the best there is up here
> in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you kidding me?im lucky that my
> insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and threatening to cut me
> off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other thing i did not
> mention;its not easy to get off of.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:41:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
>
> dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on us.
>
> next, does weed help ?
>
> next, try another doctor who will leave out the maltrexone, and just go
> with bupe alone.
>
> then let us know how it goes, you are helping all of us, by sharing this,
> so that others dont follow
> if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually roll off the bupe, even if
> you do have to go back to the stuff,
> (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in moderation, for some that
> are strong)
>
> hang in there,  try and solve this.
>
> may love find us daily
>
> ****************************************************************************************************************************
> Donzo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>
> ****************************************************************************************************************************
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Adam Nodelman <jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 PM
> *Subject:* [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
>
>  how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel
> like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use
> of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long
> time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or
> short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i
> can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just
> stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level
> coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other
> word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the
> time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell
> me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other
> things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the
> point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction
> components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors
> office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5
> or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative
> way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+
> naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative
> effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a
> successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that
> methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and
> that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the
> suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20
> mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still
> beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason
> there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking
> effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use
> opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and
> needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot
> of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a
> fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that
> i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or
> immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a
> wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm
> on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and
> experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel
> normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on
> dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!
>
> ------------------------------
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From dcollier9 at cox.net  Mon Mar  3 12:00:09 2008
From: dcollier9 at cox.net (DC in AZ)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:00:09 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
References: <327839.19871.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <021a01c87d50$0ab15a70$1000a8c0@laptop1>

its high-minded doctor talk to convince us that doing bupe isnt really doing drugs, but doing opium is.
no matter how much we try and talk ourselves into it, the point just falls short. naltrexone is for guinea pigs, imo,
but if you want to take it, its your body, and your right.

why wrong with feeling good ? Jesus made wine, and lots.

why not get the medicines we need, when we need it, and not have to beg 
a doctor, who has malpractice issues to balance against your real needs ?

just imo, dos centavos
****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adam Nodelman 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  yes weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's don't always make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip on this;i don't think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant frustrations equals "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of throwing my responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no my doctor wont or cant give me the option of the bupe without the naltrexone.options? not where i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the least amount of stigmatic infection and/or one without a  blatant anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and thinks that anyone complaining about the meds just wants to get high.and that's the best there is up here in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you kidding me?im lucky that my insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and threatening to cut me off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other thing i did not mention;its not easy to get off of.


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
  To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
  Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:41:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


  dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on us.

  next, does weed help ?

  next, try another doctor who will leave out the maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.

  then let us know how it goes, you are helping all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
  if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually roll off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
  (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in moderation, for some that are strong)

  hang in there,  try and solve this.

  may love find us daily 
  ****************************************************************************************************************************
  Donzo
  "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
  ****************************************************************************************************************************

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Adam Nodelman 
    To: The Ibogaine List 
    Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 PM
    Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)


    how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats halfway to and from nowhere.my instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm reduction components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late 60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least 10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is a lack off stigma has more to do with the naltrexones blocking effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now. AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From dana at phantom.com  Mon Mar  3 13:46:59 2008
From: dana at phantom.com (Dana Beal)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:46:59 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine at the Vienna Protest/Conference
Message-ID: <16C986CD-7426-4572-91EA-23F643E0DD1D@phantom.com>

Sunday 9 March 2008: Drug Peace Conference

at Altes AKH, Hof 2, H?rsaal C1, Spitalgasse 2, 1090 Vienna (U2  
Schottentor, U6 Alserstrasse, Tram 43,44)


15.00 ? 17.00 Ibogaine - a therapy under the gun of prohibition.

Dana Beal (USA) - Jacques de Schryver (France) - Boaz Wachtel  
(Israel) - Patrick Venulejo, (Czech Republic)

Dana Beal is an American social and political activist, best known  
for his efforts as the promotor of the annual Million/Global  
Marijuana March, on the first saturday in May. Jacques de Schryver is  
a French journalist specialised in the computer field, who was  
initiated to the iboga plant for the purpose of mind and wisdom  
awakening. Long time activist for harm reduction and cannabis  
legalization in Israel, Boaz Wachtel has been involved in ibogaine  
therapies since 1989. For several years Patrick Venulejo has provided  
ibogaine treatments in a private clinic in Prague. However, since  
this treatment is not yet formally recognised, it has been suspended.



For the entire program:

  http://encod.org/info/VIENNA-2008-TEN-YEARS-AFTER.html



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From jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 14:57:21 2008
From: jonathanswiftboat at yahoo.com (Adam Nodelman)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:57:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
Message-ID: <357555.37886.qm@web37404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

maybe so,but why would i go back on dope if i dont want it.Of course i was a little naive about the whole thing, i dont know what i really expected.anyhoo,its been a long winter,and i havent beenworking much, so ive been a stay at home dad , on this stuff.maybe i just need a real shot of sping.randy, thanks,i will call you.by the way, its jaspers 2nd birthday today, so im in a better m ood. adam

----- Original Message ----
From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 12:00:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)

 DIV {
MARGIN:0px;}
its high-minded doctor talk to convince us that 
doing bupe isnt really doing drugs, but doing opium is.
no matter how much we try and talk ourselves into 
it, the point just falls short. naltrexone is for guinea pigs, imo,
but if you want to take it, its your body, and your 
right.
 
why wrong with feeling good ? Jesus made 
wine, and lots.
 
why not get the medicines we need, when we need it, 
and not have to beg 
a doctor, who has malpractice issues to balance 
against your real needs ?
 
just imo, dos centavos
****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:   Adam Nodelman 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of   suboxone(naltrexone?)
  

    yes   weed helps,but my financial reality and parental responsibility's don't always   make that a immediate option.as for getting a grip,get a grip on this;i don't   think that using the list as a place to vent my relevant frustrations equals   "spiraling out."to me spiraling out would consist of throwing my   responsibility's to the winds and going back on drugs.and no my doctor wont or   cant give me the option of the bupe without the naltrexone.options? not where   i live.in fact i chose a doctor with the least amount of stigmatic infection   and/or one without a  blatant anti-addict agenda,.but he is cynical and   thinks that anyone complaining about the meds just wants to get high.and   that's the best there is up here in ulster county ny.liver enzyme's?are you   kidding me?im lucky that my insurance comp is not fucking with me daily and   threatening to cut me off.time to get off the bupe?no shit.that's the other   thing i did not mention;its
 not easy to get off of.

  -----   Original Message ----
From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
To: The   Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008   8:41:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] side effects of   suboxone(naltrexone?)

  DIV {MARGIN:0px;}  dude, get a grip first, and dont spiral out on 
  us.
   
  next, does weed help ?
   
  next, try another doctor who will leave out the 
  maltrexone, and just go with bupe alone.
   
  then let us know how it goes, you are 
  helping all of us, by sharing this, so that others dont follow
  if its bad. maybe you will need to eventually 
  roll off the bupe, even if you do have to go back to the stuff,
  (its all tradeoffs, and can be better managed in 
  moderation, for some that are strong)
   
  hang in there,  try and solve 
  this.
   
  may love find us daily 
  ****************************************************************************************************************************
Donzo
"Love   converts hearts, and gives   peace."
****************************************************************************************************************************

      ----- 
    Original Message ----- 
    From:     Adam Nodelman 
    To:     The 
    Ibogaine List 
    Sent:     Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 PM
    Subject:     [Ibogaine] side effects of suboxone(naltrexone?)
    

        how ever  you spell it,there is something wrong with this stuff.i     feel like crap half the time.after a certain point i question the continued     use of this treatment .'well at lest you haven't been using dope for a long     time,your better off'"I'm not so sure about that.what are the long term(or     short term) side effects of either bupe,and especially with     naltrexone.i  can give some short term side effects i have experienced.as i just     stated,i feel like crap alot.headaches,a general malaise,a low level coming     and going of feelings of withdrawal.i don't think theres any other word for     it.and its frustrating to feel like shit half the time,headaches,cold sweats     halfway to and from nowhere.my     instincts tell me that its the naltrexone.lets face it, we need our     endorphins for other things besides getting high.mood swings and     depression,anxiety to the point of danger.at first,i felt a sense of elation;the harm
     reduction components involving suboxone were powerful;no stigma at the     doctors office,drug store and little or no effect on my daily life.after     about 5 or 6 months things began to change in a subtle and profoundly     negative way.despite its convenience(another harm reduction property)the     bupe+ naltrexone before mentioned side effects seem to have a growing     negative effect on me.just because one does not go running back to dope does     not a successful treatment make.the long term effects?who knows/who knew     that methadone could rot your teeth etc when it came out in the late     60's?and that's just  swallowing the juice.with this stuff you have to     keep the suboxone IN your mouth along with the resulting saliva for at least     10 to 20 mins.what will that do to my once perfect,now sadly tarnished yet     still beloved teeth?man im bummed.my instincts also tell me that the reason there is     a lack off stigma has more to
 do with the naltrexones blocking     effects(clockwork orange,i don't or should not have free will to use     opiates)then any change off heart towards my situation,choices, wants and needs.in short,i couldn't get high     if i wanted to and that's the way alot of people across the board think it     should be.and what happens if I'm in a fucking flaming car wreck and cant     explain to the cynical ems personal that i require LARGEammounts of     phentenal.i could either slowly die in agony or immediately of shock.see     where my heads at?and no I'm not going to where a wrist band proclaiming to     the world(and my new boss or land lord )that I'm on something of this     nature.has anyone else shared these bad vibes and experiences?this really     sucks ass.i feel jealous of people who feel normal.just like the bad old     days.the only dif is that I'm not even on dope now.     AARRRRRGGGHHH.!!!!!      



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From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 15:20:41 2008
From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:20:41 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
In-Reply-To: <5692.80.127.42.14.1203331627.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <5692.80.127.42.14.1203331627.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1f5488f0803031220w74c0b91fkd419b16889de958b@mail.gmail.com>

nice work hijacking the list fellas.  and that you did it using one of the
more potentially important threads we've seen in a year, why that was the
cherry on top.  place for everything yall and it ain't here.

would anyone like to continue with the idea presented in marko's original
post?


-- 

http://www.maps.org
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From nick227 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Mar  3 15:43:29 2008
From: nick227 at tiscali.co.uk (Nick Sandberg)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:43:29 -0000
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine is the answer to everything: GDNF IS the
	strongtheoretical argument!
In-Reply-To: <f02239aa0802250121h38385627odfdbc2f30e475565@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f02239aa0802250121h38385627odfdbc2f30e475565@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <035701c87d6f$411890f0$0801a8c0@amira>

Hi Eric,

 

I've been away for a bit, would have replied earlier. About Dana and Science
presentations, I think you do have to also consider the question of who else
aside of Dana is there to actually do presentations like this? The
scientists who have done the GDNF paper - are they actually up for going on
the circuit to present their data? Are they willing to take a stand for the
drug? Personally, I don't know but I doubt it. Ibogaine is really between a
rock and a hard place here. When it comes to the drug business, there is in
our society such a surfeit of both belief in the existing system and
ignorance of how the existing system really works, that it's nigh-on
impossible to get anyone to take a look at ibogaine. Most people believe
that the principle criteria for developing a medication for the public is
that it works. This is not true, but if you ask me, until enough people
appreciate this then drugs like ibogaine really are stuck in nowhere land.
So, for me, you can be critical of Dana but you also have to appreciate what
he is doing, which is a lot. What I'm saying is.give him positive feedback
too, because he deserves it.

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On
Behalf Of Eric Madison
Sent: 25 February 2008 09:21
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine is the answer to everything: GDNF IS the
strongtheoretical argument!

 

Dana I have never stated that any particular ibogaine presentation should
not be made. I have only directly stated that you're not the one who should
be giving medical and science based ibogaine presentations. The purpose of a
presentation is presumably to enlighten the audience regarding the topic and
subject being presented. Your "science" based talks are to be blunt, awful.
They're sloppy, incoherent and convey no new level of understanding to the
audience.

As I stated in my opening message I do believe that Dr. Wodak's abstract
begins in a biased manner. I've seen nothing in his interactions with Nick
Sandberg to indicate he will change this stance. You have a panel with a
sceptic. Accept it instead of throwing tantrums.

I've no idea what Dr. Cohen said that so "flustered Dimitri he quit after 5
minutes", while I have not been present at every panel Dimitri has ever been
part of, those I have attended are all essentially the same power to the
people speech which imparts no novel information beyond that of ibogaine
working for him and his continued efforts to dose people with ibogaine
without medical training or supervision. In New Orleans he wrapped up his
motivational talk sooner and began screaming "fuck all of you". 

Be that as it may my points have nothing to do with user activism, Dimitri
gives the same speech with varying results but he doesn't spend his time
trying to impart knowledge or information he doesn't understand in the first
place. If anything he remains willfully ignorant. That's fine, it's honest,
it's user activism. No doctor or researcher needs to hear any of that, but
he doesn't carry on about science he doesn't understand. You do Dana.

Speaking of Dr. Ken Alper, I do realize that this forum is very much the
ibogaine gathering, fair enough, but I see a lot of selective editing
regarding what participants choose to share here. 

Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Beal, but at your recent Washington DC forum,
didn't Dr. Alper publicly berate Howard Lotsof for making specious claims
about ibogaine and Hep C? Didn't Dr. Alper have some additional thoughts
about your own presentation? My overall impression is that Dr. Alper had
issues with both your and Mr. Lotsof's presentations and was quite upset at
the forum with regards to the "scientific" claims being made for ibogaine. 

Did you perhaps attend another ibogaine forum in another universe where this
did not happen Mr. Beal? Do you imagine that Dr. Wodak will be kinder then
an M.D. who is already firmly in the ibogaine camp and seems to be quite
sick of what's being passed off as the "science" of ibogaine?



On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Dana Beal <dana at phantom.com> wrote:

 

The fact remains: in the GDNF finding, there exists the strong theoretical
argument to justify ibogaine research that Wodak is demanding.  The big
concern right now in harm reduction circles about crystal meth, and the GDNF
stuff shows how ibogaine works for crystal. BTW, Wodak has gotten himself
scheduled  for the first international conference on crystal meth in Prague.
So far my powerpoint has not.


Nor should it be. What do you know about GDNF and ibogaine Dana? When I look
up this topic, what I see is: Ernest Gallo Clinic and Research Center, with
Dr. Dorit Ron and colleagues. For some reason I do not find a "Dana Beal"
listed anywhere, having any publication in any journal or lay magazine,
explaining ibogaine and GDNF. I wonder why that is.
 

To bring this back to focus, I am aware of your activism and tireless
promotion of ibogaine over the years. I have much respect for this. I
honestly do not understand why you feel the need to give scientific or
medical presentations about ibogaine though. You contribute nothing except
making seemingly miraculous claims seem even more ridiculous. Saying that no
other M.D. or Ph.D. who is sympathetic to ibogaine will attend, so you have
to give the talks, does nothing to strengthen your claims or position.



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From luke.christoffersen at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 17:01:04 2008
From: luke.christoffersen at gmail.com (Luke Christoffersen)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:01:04 +0000
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drinking makes heart grow more sorrowful, study finds
In-Reply-To: <5B11657A-3798-4057-BAB5-E8DEEF720CB6@phantom.com>
References: <5B11657A-3798-4057-BAB5-E8DEEF720CB6@phantom.com>
Message-ID: <4c90d90803031401i535de996k826529c624c0ee57@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe the rats that didn't get the booze were too stressed out from being
shocked that their memory was impaired. I think a lot of us know that
something that calms us while stressed can make memory flow easier. Alcohol
just numbs the pain for a while rather than making us forget.  Well, unless
you hammer in couple of bottles of whiskey



Fri Feb 29, 1:59 AM ET
>
> The age-old belief goes that alcohol helps people drown their
> sorrows, but
> in truth the bottle only makes bad memories linger, a Japanese study
> said
> Friday.
>
> Researchers at the University of Tokyo concluded that ethanol -- an
> intoxicating agent in alcohol -- does not cause memory to decrease, as
> widely believed, but instead locks it in place.
>
> The researchers, led by pharmacology professor Norio Matsuki, gave mild
> shocks to lab rats to condition them to fear. As a result, the rats
> would
> freeze in terror and curl up the moment they were put in their cages.
>
> Researchers then immediately injected the rats with ethanol or saline.
>
> The researchers found that rats with alcohol in their veins froze up for
> longer, with the fear on average lasting two weeks, compared with
> rats that
> did not receive injections.
>
> "If we apply this study to humans, the memories they are trying to
> get rid
> of will remain strongly, even if they drink alcohol to try to forget an
> event they dislike and be in a merry mood for the moment," the study
> said.
>
> "The following day, they won't remember the merriness that they
>