From doranman2 at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 05:46:24 2008
From: doranman2 at gmail.com (Scott Doran)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 05:46:24 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] harm reduction
In-Reply-To: <48415F9E.4000100@gmail.com>
References: <987987.91323.qm@web28613.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<BLU141-W338E82F60ED74222B6A24DAFBE0@phx.gbl>
	<48415F9E.4000100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <394bc6bd0806010246n2c9e393ev767cf5d9e72a51ef@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed the vote on this bill broke down heavily upon party  lines. This
is the email I sent to Rep Cliff Stearn, a Republican in my area. I hope we
can vote in at least a Democrat next time around.


Local communities should decide how best to fight the spread of HIV. Syringe
exchanges are proven to help reduce HIV & Hepatitis C infection and also
provide important links to drug treatment. As an RN who has worked in drug
treatment, and contracted Hep C through a needle stick, I would like to see
more citizens protected from blood borne disease  It's time to lift the
federal ban on syringe exchange funding.  Will you sir, please sign the
Cummings/Castle letter? For what it costs to care for one person with HIV,
30 cases could be prevented by this program. This is a health issue, not a
moral one. Most voters in my area, once they are educated on this issue,
support needle exchange programs. Thank you your time in the consideration
of this important issue.
Sincerely,
Scott Doran RN

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Matt Shriver <ibogamail at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi Matt
>
> Thanks for the constructive criticism.  I still haven't sent it, I feel it
> needs a little more polishing.  I considered cutting the part about
> mentioning my own use but I thought it sort of brought a little legitimacy
> to it, but then again I agree with you that some people will actually see it
> as removing the legitimacy.
>
> Matt
>
> Matthew Zielinski wrote:
>
> Good job Matt!.  Its articulate, succint and introduces ibogaine!
>
> I personally wouldn't mention the using part.   I think it might alter the
> credibility of the article.
>
> But very well done my friend!
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
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From juliano8 at ntlworld.com  Sun Jun  1 07:51:57 2008
From: juliano8 at ntlworld.com (Juliano)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:51:57 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
References: <265891.89008.qm@web28602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008f01c8c3dd$e651d310$a55c1752@DHVZBJ2J>

Hi Simon,

You said: " I want to say some thing about the fact that you said "these secrets need to be told" which I will get to;" 

Actually I said that the secret is already out. That in principle people could cultivate their own psychedelics if they wished to, and get informtaion as to how to have a Tryp.
Ie., there is no need to be  relying on being part of some 'mystery school', or going to a shaman, or medicine man. 

Regarding the rest of your post. Yes the so-called 'mental health movement' it is all a shambles. This is because the whole ediface is built on a myth of mental illness. The very institutions really function as social control. And usually it has always been the poor that have been the main victims. So for example we have a VERY brutal oppressive system that is not just harsh physically for many, but also psychologically. But that ,especially, the latter brutality cannot even be acknowledged by the victims of it, because the paradigm that breeds brutality is being said to be the reality

A good example is Soviet Russia (and this has never really gone away): IF an individual did not accept the 'communist' ideology they would be dragged before the psychiatrists and deemed to be 'mentally ill' and forcibly incarcerated and  drugged against their will.
 Because the paradigm, 'communism' was believed to be the 'reality', and to question it in whatever way was deemed to be not-normal! Now if the person accused doesn't know anything BUT that system then even s/he may feel they are 'not-normal', right?

So compare that terrible scenario with ours. We have the 'capitalist' system which includes consumerism, and so on. IF you show distress about this, and any rebelliousness against the injustices, and abuse, of this system you too can be classed as being 'mentally ill', which can include being incarcerated and drugged against one's will, and/or stigmatized as an 'out patient' who needs to be 'on medication' because of 'mental illness', and all that that means in the community. How others think and behave with you, and how you think about yourself. 

Really the question is not who is going to fund this myth, it is how to EXPOSE this myth. Show the roots of this evil myth. Because not only are people and children being abused by it, but planet Earth is now under attack by mindsets totally disconnected from the web of life!

regarde

Juliano
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: simon loxton 
  To: The Ibogaine List 
  Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)


  I need to read your entire email and really take it in because I want to say some thing about the fact that you said "these secrets need to be told" which I will get to; but first lets look at the state of psychiatric care around the world. Most of the people who should be receiving in-patient care are on the streets or stuck with their families all due to excuses like lack of funding etc. Where I am about 25% of the main psychiatric hospital is in a semi-working condition and the patients that really need it are not receiving the care that they need. The same happened or is in the UK. I have seen dozens of documentaries on the way these people are treated in whats left of the facilities as well as first hand. So even if there was a change in the approach to the type of care or medication these people got where would they get it? Who would fund it? Who really cares and what percentage of any budget is currently allocated to these people? The only people that would possibly have access are the ones who have families to foot the bill. Its quite a change discussing psychiatric issues and it opens a lot of doors for conversation but I honestly see it as something that's in a state of decay outside of private health care. In private health care it is just as I got the impression of what is trying to be said and thats to prescribe the nearest thing at hand to deal with the symptoms.


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Melanie Gutierrez <gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com>
  To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
  Sent: Sunday, 1 June, 2008 3:55:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)


  This is the most powerful of statements,  
    One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are experiencing powerful visionary experiences. Most likely would be superfluous. But to be there with them offering loving support, yes.
   And that is totally where the medical community gets it wrong.  Where most people get it wrong.  I've spent quite a moment thinking how to approach this particular email.  Because, there are so many concurrent discussions going on right now that make this all very whole for me.  
  There is a science behind, and tests for psychiatric illness.  Now saying that, putting your example of Psychosis aside, because everything you said about psychosis is correct.  Its only a catch all term for the weird and bizarre unexplainable behavior that people some times display.  I say people because on this list at least most have had at least one type of break that is indescribable for them for what ever reason.  And the main line of treatment for Psychotic episodes is Anti- and benzo's, thats what I see in the medical community.  Just knock um out till its over.  10 of Haldol and  2 of Ativan standard ER care for someone freaking out.  Thats the truth.  I see the truth.  
  http://www.icd9data.com/2008/Volume1/290-319/290-294/291/291.3.htm
  So there is alcohol physchosis.   Of course there is, we all know what alcohol does to the body in not moderated forms, when your initialy on, then when you initially stop a chronic useage. 

  Other psychatric D/O are very testable, treatable on a holistic level with out the chemical masking making people fit in to the "norm" of what "should be".  But the medical community refuses to look at the whole picture.

  Good little link on Biological psychiatry in a mini e-textbook format.
  http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/~zfisar/bpen/default.htm

   I picked the page on Affective disorders, because that is my "label" that was given to me oh so long ago.  Bi-Polar, it was just manic depression when I was labeled with it, but now they even have levels on that.  Bi-Polar I and II.  Brillant, keep breaking it down and not treating the person still.  Anyhow, there I rant.  
  Holistic Medicine is what you (Juliano) basically are describing and it is the way the medical community needs to go in order to truely treat people.  Which brings me to Body, Mind and Soul/Spirit
  Every medical scientific community for the most part refuses to look at Spirit and how that fits into the works.  
  The concurrent discussion of Ibogaine going on with Howard, Simon, Sara and others.  Bwiti want to preserve the custom/religion of their practice.  Of Course they do, has western society proven to conserve and validate those practices that are Sacred to people.  NEVER have we.  Point taken there.  Now in the evolution of things, I feel Howards point of, They NEED to, because even when we treat addiction with Ibogaine with out the spiritual aspect that has worked for the Bwiti, we are still failing the sacred use of the plant, and just using it as a drug.  Much the way the medical community has failed to treat people.  

  Well I just proofed and this has went on longer than I wanted already.  But I must mention one more time, Newagism shit.  I've seen it called, new newagism even.  Ridiculous honestly IMO how much time we spend labeling.  Its a form of scientific based sprituality that works for me,  I choose to call it Mine.  

  Sharing common threads with people like Matt who right now is in a huge struggle and is winning is what I'm here for, Not to argue benign points with likeminded people who are all here for the better good of humanity.  Watching the evolution of Matt in his quest to figure this out for himSELF is a beautiful thing,  I support his self on a very personal level.  Thats what I'm here for currently.  And where I have been currently trying to make a difference on a very 1:1 level.  
  My dream job, working in the holistic energy center treating addiction/beh health issues that are real for people.  Yet being able to be real with people with out it being unprofessional.  Practicing modalities from all the cultures, reki, hypmotism, all that newagish shit. :)  Maybe even the Bwiti if they will let us in.
  Keep on Keepin on, Juliano.  The global fight continues.  I'm glad your helping fight it.
  Mel


  On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com> wrote: 
    Hi Simon,

    I will try and answer you questions best way I can: For a start there is no actual proof that mental illness is a biological disease. There are no tests.
    Of course there are human behaviours deemed disturbing and unacceptable by the prevailing authorities, but this doesn't make them diseases.
    rather, what is going on is a very serious game which is oppressing people. Ie., when people are accused of being 'ill', and then drugged, and/or electrocuted with ECT, and locked up, and tied up, and all the abuse of that, this means that the bigger picture--the community, society, culture, world, is conveniently not being looked at.

    So I encouage us to look directly at what is going on, which means the whole picture. And to do this means looking at the pharmaceutical industry and its relationship with the military industrial complex!....the whole schbangle. Otherwise, you can only be apporaoching this problem in a very superficial way. No matter how arduous it may be to look!

    We have to look. Not only because people are suffering under this oppression, but the very planet and its species are suffering under the onslaught of this oppression. it is ALL connected to this problem we are discussing. So to understand we need NOT compartmentalized thinking, which is the usual western scientific model, but a more Indigenous integrated vision.

    In my own person experience I was given LSD when I was very young, 15. I had no idea what the tiny pill was. But the experience, and others to follow brought me back to Nature. Ie., in that short speace of time from being a small kid into Nature and faeryland to a school-hardened young lad into the 'big city', LSD dissolved all of that conditioning.

    Now you claim that people have been pushed into 'psychosis' via psychedelics? This is very complex because what this prevailing culture classes 'psychosis' is not an exact category and is very subjective. In the UK kids who smoke a very strong cannabis called Skunk had been daignosed as being 'psychotic'. And I am sure many people who drink alcohol can seem the same, but usually we dont hear it about drinkers.

    So, is there such a condition as 'psychosis'? Wel...yes, --not using that psychiatric term if possible--but it is not physical disease but a process!

    Of?

    To understand we have to again understand the vast enormous pressure we are under. For some, things become so pressurized that the 'ego''s boudaries--if you like--give up to a healing energy that takes over. And the person may experience mythical visions etc etc.
    What the shrinks usually want to do then is suppress these visions. Drug them away. And the person is given nervous-system damaging 'medication'. But THAT is not mentioned!! As long as they can suppress it is all they want. Because to deal with this challenges their worldviews.

    One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are experincing powerful visionary experiences. Most likey would be superfluous. But to be there with them offering loving support, yes.

    THE most important thing to consider with psychedelics is Set & Setting. And this includes loving open helpful advice. Not a culture that classes all forms of behaviour deemed not 'normal' as psychotic.

    it is somewhat of a coincidence that another member of this forum I am with that is about psychedelics has recently shared his terrible experience from the pharma-shrinks in Germany. For simply saying things they are not familiar with they diagnosed him 'psychotic' and locked him up!! If this discussion continues I will ask his permission to copy his posts here..

    See thing is Simon. the SECRET IS OUT! Unlike secret society's of past, etc. many people can if they desire cultivate their own psychedelics etc. So surely the most intelligen thing is to encourage and try and explore the most resepctul and intelligent and benevolent ways to exeperience with psychedelics.

    This must, in my opinion go hand in hand with UTMOST respect for the Land, and animals, all other species, and community.

    regarde

    Juliano


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: simon loxton 
      To: The Ibogaine List 
      Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
      I just wanted to comment Juliano; on some of your mails; they seem to me to carry the sentiment that psychedelics are the answer to mental disorders. If I have missed the point I apologize but I have to bring up the number of cases of psychosis that psychedelics or psychotropic substances have caused. I cant comment on cases occurring in controlled circumstances or approached medically. I would just like to get your comment  on how you propose psychedelics are to be used in this respect. I only mention this as I see a possible danger from the drugs creating psychosis possibly in people that have borderline personality disorders or mental imbalances.  I apologize That I can come up with any other description other than mental imbalance and personality disorder but is the only two terms I can use to describe the type of persons where this type of medication would be contra indicated in my opinion, again I am only going with my limited understanding of mental illness but have witnessed these types of problems in people and especially instances where these conditions were aggravated or worsened by taking mind altering substances. But as I said earlier this was not anything to do with cases where the drugs were administered by a doctor or in a clinical environment. I am just trying to get to an understanding of what it is you are advocating. I do believe in mental illness and think there is enough evidence to support its existence; which is why I think I may be misunderstanding some of the sentiments you are bringing across. I look forward to your comment. 
      I just saw a documentary that noted Carey Grant took LSD about 80 timed for alcoholism which I found interesting. This was at the stage where they were trying to figure out what LSD was useful for.
      ----- Original Message ---- 
      From: Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com>
      To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
      Sent: Saturday, 31 May, 2008 10:07:11 AM
      Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
      Hi Randy,

      Sorry to hear about your son.

      Just to say though/never worry about what people say. UNLESS they throw you off--which thers nothin you can do--please dont let anyone intimidate you from speaking as you see fit. we ALL got seomthing to say from our unique perspectives!
      And I would LOVE to hear what you say ;)

      regarde

      Juliano
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Randy Faulconer 
        To: The Ibogaine List 
        Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 4:09 AM
        Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
                 Hey yall, I had a note all written up and my Momma did something and it went to saved drafts and I couldn't get it back up. Uhhhhhh he said "get it up".............He He
               Anyway, I've been having a pretty hard time lately, my son got put in jail and I've been having a lot of problems with my back. Other thing too, too many to talk about really.

                 My son got himself in some pretty deep shit, all because of alcohol. If he wasn't on probation it would have been opiates, but then he wouldn't have been all stupid and loud and idiotic enough to get put in jail but that's just supposing. Gatewood got him out of everything but the probation violation so he has to do 32 more days. When I got his first letter I cried like a baby, I mean sobbing and whaling and shit. I'm so glad that my Momma was here to lean on. We've been helping each other out here lately. God I love her so, but I digress. I felt like his upbringing was the root of all of this shit and I damn near lost it. I know better, but he was so descriptive that I was right there in the cell with him and it killed be to think of him in jail like that. He'll do fine, he's a lot like me so he can adapt to just about anything but still.........fuck, my boy is in jail. The way he was brought up was a big part ot this. His mother didn't make him mind, hell she smoked with him when he was 12. We divorced when Randy was 8 years old so I couldn't be there to keep him in line. I saw him on Christmas and shit but that's just not enough to make any difference really. Not that I'm any kind of saint or anything but I think I might have made a little difference anyway. I moved to Erie Pa right after we got divorced, hell the papers were still wet from the ink. That was my fault.

              I wasn't gonna lay all of this out on the list but I felt like I was gonna bust or something. There were a couple of people slam me for not trying to help in the right way here on the list, a couple of people that I really respect, and it hurt my feelings bad. I guess I'm just too sensitive for my own feakin' good. I mean I didn't think there was a wrong way to do the right thing, but I guess some people don't feel that way, so I kept my thoughts to myself and just read the list.

             I'm still working on getting treatment reports and accounts together so yall that haven't sent one................PLEASE help a brutha out. There are a few of you that have been here a while now that haven't sent an account, and I think that you all are important to the movement, we need to hear from you. You know who you are. Some of the old timers too.

              I'll try and write a little more to the list. It makes me feel better and that is what this list is for, not just dry information. We need all the information we can get but dealing with feelings is just as important. My opinion anyway. I think that Patrick would agree. I hope he doesn't mind me speaking for him like that, but I'll take the risk. 

                 Peace Love and Kindness
                    Randy
                 BiscuitBoy Blues 
        On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Brad Hays <bradleyheathhays at gmail.com> wrote: 
          Randy will come back to us when he can, I'm sure 
          On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:03 AM, LEE <JUNKBOY64 at msn.com> wrote: 
            I just realizeed that I havent hearrd from randy for a while... I miss your witty repartae randy...... email back so that I chan feel the love...... I was thinking about you, and I hoep you are doing good.... let me know if can help if you are having problems....... mujch love...... 
            junkster..... the junkboy..... it seems im a junkboy.... damn... the cops keep drivijg by thry ihg
            specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

            if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: Brad Hays 
              To: The Ibogaine List 
              Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 3:28 PM
              Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine article barcelona conference
              Would love to see all of this Howard, and thanks for your work on it.  Actually I'd like to see that article in opposition to ibogaine too if it's around. 
              On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Howard Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com> wrote: 
                I had forwarded the entire newsletter of May 11/12 from the Barcelona conference that had the promotional article for the ibogaine session to this list but, it does not appear to have landed.;  I have thus hoping that the article alone that is much smaller will work. A later edition of the Daily Update newsletter contained an article in opposition to ibogaine but, there is no doubt that ibogaine prevailed during the special session in which ibogaine presentations took place and in the minds and hearts of drug users and drug policy activists. 
                I will see if I can get all of the slide shows and articles into a composite report within the next few weeks.
                Howard
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From wleetheriot at ca.rr.com  Sun Jun  1 08:54:08 2008
From: wleetheriot at ca.rr.com (Warren Theriot)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:54:08 -0700
Subject: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
In-Reply-To: <008f01c8c3dd$e651d310$a55c1752@DHVZBJ2J>
References: <265891.89008.qm@web28602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<008f01c8c3dd$e651d310$a55c1752@DHVZBJ2J>
Message-ID: <48429BF0.2080104@ca.rr.com>

Word.
What about abused animals that are "unleashed" into the city 
where their sickness spreads to affect the entire community?
What am I talking about? See my videos on You Tube, key 
words Barking Dog Tujunga Beckett. Last year I took Ibogaine 
  to get free from the anger I felt and the damned 
prescription pain medications and returned home to this 
environment where I survive by denying anger so as to not 
let it get the best of me. No influence from drugs causing 
the anger this time. It's the scene outside my front door 
day and night that makes this world seem very cruel. I put 
up with this after Thankgiving trying not to die from viral 
meningitus, too sick to hardly move to put a pillow over my 
ears over the spectacle across the street. Now its been a 
year and three months in this environment.
Peace someday...
Warren


Juliano wrote:
> Hi Simon,
>  
> You said: /"// I want to say some thing about the fact that you said 
> "these secrets need to be told" which I will get to;"/
>  
> Actually I said that the secret is/ already/ out. That in principle 
> people could cultivate their own psychedelics if they wished to, and get 
> informtaion as to how to have a Tryp.
> Ie., there is no need to be  relying on being part of some 'mystery 
> school', or going to a shaman, or medicine man.
>  
> Regarding the rest of your post. Yes the so-called 'mental health 
> movement' it is all a shambles. This is because the whole ediface is 
> built on a myth of mental illness. The very institutions really function 
> as *social control*. And usually it has always been the poor that have 
> been the main victims. So for example we have a VERY brutal oppressive 
> system that is not just harsh physically for many, but also 
> psychologically. But that ,especially, the latter brutality cannot even 
> be /acknowledged /by the victims of it, because the paradigm that breeds 
> brutality is being said to be the/ reality/
>  
> A good example is Soviet Russia (and this has never really gone away): 
> IF an individual did not accept the 'communist' ideology they would be 
> dragged before the psychiatrists and deemed to be 'mentally ill' and 
> forcibly incarcerated and  drugged against their will.
>  Because the paradigm, '/communism/' was believed to be the 'reality', 
> and to question it in whatever way was deemed to be not-normal! Now if 
> the person accused doesn't know anything BUT that system then even s/he 
> may feel they are 'not-normal', right?
>  
> So compare that terrible scenario with ours. We have the 'capitalist' 
> system which includes consumerism, and so on. IF you show distress about 
> this, and any rebelliousness against the injustices, and abuse, of this 
> system you too can be classed as being 'mentally ill', which can include 
> being incarcerated and drugged against one's will, and/or stigmatized as 
> an 'out patient' who needs to be 'on medication' because of 'mental 
> illness', and all that that means in the community. How others think and 
> behave with you, and how you think about yourself. 
>  
> Really the question is not who is going to fund this /myth/, it is how 
> to /EXPOSE/ this myth. Show the /roots /of this evil myth. Because not 
> only are people and children being abused by it, but planet Earth is now 
> under attack by mindsets totally disconnected from the web of life!
>  
> regarde
>  
> Juliano
> 
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* simon loxton <mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>     *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:33 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
> 
>     I need to read your entire email and really take it in because I
>     want to say some thing about the fact that you said "these secrets
>     need to be told" which I will get to; but first lets look at the
>     state of psychiatric care around the world. Most of the people who
>     should be receiving in-patient care are on the streets or stuck with
>     their families all due to excuses like lack of funding etc. Where I
>     am about 25% of the main psychiatric hospital is in a semi-working
>     condition and the patients that really need it are not receiving the
>     care that they need. The same happened or is in the UK. I have seen
>     dozens of documentaries on the way these people are treated in whats
>     left of the facilities as well as first hand. So even if there was a
>     change in the approach to the type of care or medication these
>     people got where would they get it? Who would fund it? Who really
>     cares and what percentage of any budget is currently allocated to
>     these people? The only people that would possibly have access are
>     the ones who have families to foot the bill. Its quite a change
>     discussing psychiatric issues and it opens a lot of doors for
>     conversation but I honestly see it as something that's in a state of
>     decay outside of private health care. In private health care it is
>     just as I got the impression of what is trying to be said and thats
>     to prescribe the nearest thing at hand to deal with the symptoms.
> 
>     ----- Original Message ----
>     From: Melanie Gutierrez <gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com>
>     To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>     Sent: Sunday, 1 June, 2008 3:55:36 AM
>     Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
> 
>     This is the most powerful of statements,  
> 
>         One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are
>         experiencing powerful visionary experiences. Most likely would
>         be superfluous. But to be there with them offering loving
>         support, yes.
> 
>      And that is totally where the medical community gets it wrong. 
>     Where most people get it wrong.  I've spent quite a moment thinking
>     how to approach this particular email.  Because, there are so many
>     concurrent discussions going on right now that make this all very
>     whole for me. 
>     There is a science behind, and tests for psychiatric illness.  Now
>     saying that, putting your example of Psychosis aside, because
>     everything you said about psychosis is correct.  Its only a catch
>     all term for the weird and bizarre unexplainable behavior that
>     people some times display.  I say people because on this list at
>     least most have had at least one type of break that is indescribable
>     for them for what ever reason.  And the main line of treatment for
>     Psychotic episodes is Anti- and benzo's, thats what I see in the
>     medical community.  Just knock um out till its over.  10 of Haldol
>     and  2 of Ativan standard ER care for someone freaking out.  Thats
>     the truth.  I see the truth. 
>     http://www.icd9data.com/2008/Volume1/290-319/290-294/291/291.3.htm
>     So there is alcohol physchosis.   Of course there is, we all know
>     what alcohol does to the body in not moderated forms, when your
>     initialy on, then when you initially stop a chronic useage.
>      
>     Other psychatric D/O are very testable, treatable on a holistic
>     level with out the chemical masking making people fit in to the
>     "norm" of what "should be".  But the medical community refuses to
>     look at the whole picture.
>      
>     Good little link on Biological psychiatry in a mini e-textbook format.
>     http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/~zfisar/bpen/default.htm
>     <http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/%7Ezfisar/bpen/default.htm>
>      
>      I picked the page on Affective disorders, because that is my
>     "label" that was given to me oh so long ago.  Bi-Polar, it was just
>     manic depression when I was labeled with it, but now they even have
>     levels on that.  Bi-Polar I and II.  Brillant, keep breaking it down
>     and not treating the person still.  Anyhow, there I rant. 
>     Holistic Medicine is what you (Juliano) basically are describing and
>     it is the way the medical community needs to go in order to truely
>     treat people.  Which brings me to Body, Mind and Soul/Spirit
>     Every medical scientific community for the most part refuses to look
>     at Spirit and how that fits into the works. 
>     The concurrent discussion of Ibogaine going on with Howard, Simon,
>     Sara and others.  Bwiti want to preserve the custom/religion of
>     their practice.  Of Course they do, has western society proven to
>     conserve and validate those practices that are Sacred to people. 
>     NEVER have we.  Point taken there.  Now in the evolution of things,
>     I feel Howards point of, They NEED to, because even when we treat
>     addiction with Ibogaine with out the spiritual aspect that has
>     worked for the Bwiti, we are still failing the sacred use of the
>     plant, and just using it as a drug.  Much the way the medical
>     community has failed to treat people. 
>      
>     Well I just proofed and this has went on longer than I wanted
>     already.  But I must mention one more time, Newagism shit.  I've
>     seen it called, new newagism even.  Ridiculous honestly IMO how much
>     time we spend labeling.  Its a form of scientific based sprituality
>     that works for me,  I choose to call it Mine. 
>      
>     Sharing common threads with people like Matt who right now is in a
>     huge struggle and is winning is what I'm here for, Not to argue
>     benign points with likeminded people who are all here for the better
>     good of humanity.  Watching the evolution of Matt in his quest to
>     figure this out for himSELF is a beautiful thing,  I support his
>     self on a very personal level.  Thats what I'm here for currently. 
>     And where I have been currently trying to make a difference on a
>     very 1:1 level. 
>     My dream job, working in the holistic energy center treating
>     addiction/beh health issues that are real for people.  Yet being
>     able to be real with people with out it being unprofessional. 
>     Practicing modalities from all the cultures, reki, hypmotism, all
>     that newagish shit. :)  Maybe even the Bwiti if they will let us in.
>     Keep on Keepin on, Juliano.  The global fight continues.  I'm glad
>     your helping fight it.
>     Mel
>      
>      
>     On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com
>     <mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com>> wrote:
> 
>         Hi Simon,
>          
>         I will try and answer you questions best way I can: For a start
>         there is no actual proof that mental illness is a biological
>         disease. There are no tests.
>         Of course there are human behaviours deemed disturbing and
>         unacceptable by the prevailing authorities, but this doesn't
>         make them diseases.
>         rather, what is going on is a very serious game which is
>         oppressing people. Ie., when people are accused of being 'ill',
>         and then drugged, and/or electrocuted with ECT, and locked up,
>         and tied up, and all the abuse of that, this means that the
>         /bigger/ picture--the community, society, culture, world, is
>         conveniently not being looked at.
>          
>         So I encouage us to look directly at what is going on, which
>         means the whole picture. And to do this means looking at the
>         pharmaceutical industry and its relationship with the military
>         industrial complex!....the whole schbangle./ Otherwise/, you can
>         only be apporaoching this problem in a very superficial way. No
>         matter how arduous it may be to look!
>          
>         We /have/ to look. Not only because people are suffering under
>         this oppression, but the very planet and its species are
>         suffering under the onslaught of this oppression. it is ALL
>         connected to this problem we are discussing. So to understand we
>         need NOT compartmentalized thinking, which is the usual western
>         scientific model, but a more Indigenous integrated vision.
>          
>         In my own person experience I was given LSD when I was very
>         young, 15. I had no idea what the tiny pill was. But the
>         experience, and others to follow brought me back to Nature. Ie.,
>         in that short speace of time from being a small kid into Nature
>         and faeryland to a school-hardened young lad into the 'big
>         city', LSD dissolved all of that conditioning.
>          
>         Now you claim that people have been pushed into 'psychosis' via
>         psychedelics? This is very complex because what this prevailing
>         culture classes 'psychosis' is not an exact category and is very
>         subjective. In the UK kids who smoke a very strong cannabis
>         called Skunk had been daignosed as being 'psychotic'. And I am
>         sure many people who drink alcohol can seem the same, but
>         usually we dont hear it about drinkers.
>          
>         So, is there such a condition as 'psychosis'? Wel...yes, --not
>         using that psychiatric term if possible--but it is not physical
>         disease but a process!
>          
>         Of?
>          
>         To understand we have to again understand the vast enormous
>         pressure we are under. For some, things become so pressurized
>         that the 'ego''s boudaries--if you like--give up to a healing
>         energy that takes over. And the person may experience mythical
>         visions etc etc.
>         What the shrinks usually want to do then is suppress these
>         visions. Drug them away. And the person is given nervous-system
>         damaging 'medication'. But THAT is not mentioned!! As long as
>         they can suppress it is all they want. Because to deal with this
>         challenges their worldviews.
>          
>         One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are
>         experincing powerful visionary experiences. Most likey would be
>         superfluous. But to be there with them offering loving support, yes.
>          
>         THE most important thing to consider with psychedelics is Set &
>         Setting. And this includes loving open helpful advice. Not a
>         culture that classes all forms of behaviour deemed not 'normal'
>         as psychotic.
>          
>         it is somewhat of a coincidence that another member of this
>         forum I am with that is about psychedelics has recently shared
>         his terrible experience from the pharma-shrinks in Germany. For
>         simply saying things they are not familiar with they diagnosed
>         him 'psychotic' and locked him up!! If this discussion continues
>         I will ask his permission to copy his posts here..
>          
>         See thing is Simon. the SECRET IS OUT! Unlike secret society's
>         of past, etc. many people can if they desire cultivate their own
>         psychedelics etc. So surely the most intelligen thing is to
>         encourage and try and explore the most resepctul and intelligent
>         and benevolent ways to exeperience with psychedelics.
>          
>         This must, in my opinion go hand in hand with UTMOST respect for
>         the Land, and animals, all other species, and community.
>          
>         regarde
>          
>         Juliano
>          
>          
> 
>             ----- Original Message -----
>             *From:* simon loxton <mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>             *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>             *Sent:* Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:01 PM
>             *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy
>             lately (randy)
>             I just wanted to comment Juliano; on some of your mails;
>             they seem to me to carry the sentiment that psychedelics are
>             the answer to mental disorders. If I have missed the point I
>             apologize but I have to bring up the number of cases of
>             psychosis that psychedelics or psychotropic substances have
>             caused. I cant comment on cases occurring in controlled
>             circumstances or approached medically. I would just like to
>             get your comment  on how you propose psychedelics are to be
>             used in this respect. I only mention this as I see a
>             possible danger from the drugs creating psychosis possibly
>             in people that have borderline personality disorders or
>             mental imbalances.  I apologize That I can come up with any
>             other description other than mental imbalance and
>             personality disorder but is the only two terms I can use to
>             describe the type of persons where this type of medication
>             would be contra indicated in my opinion, again I am only
>             going with my limited understanding of mental illness but
>             have witnessed these types of problems in people and
>             especially instances where these conditions were aggravated
>             or worsened by taking mind altering substances. But as I
>             said earlier this was not anything to do with cases where
>             the drugs were administered by a doctor or in a clinical
>             environment. I am just trying to get to an understanding of
>             what it is you are advocating. I do believe in mental
>             illness and think there is enough evidence to support its
>             existence; which is why I think I may be misunderstanding
>             some of the sentiments you are bringing across. I look
>             forward to your comment.
>             I just saw a documentary that noted Carey Grant took LSD
>             about 80 timed for alcoholism which I found interesting.
>             This was at the stage where they were trying to figure out
>             what LSD was useful for.
>             ----- Original Message ----
>             From: Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com
>             <mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com>>
>             To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com
>             <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>>
>             Sent: Saturday, 31 May, 2008 10:07:11 AM
>             Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately
>             (randy)
>             Hi Randy,
>              
>             Sorry to hear about your son.
>              
>             Just to say though/never worry about what people say. UNLESS
>             they throw you off--which thers nothin you can do--please
>             dont let anyone intimidate you from speaking as you see fit.
>             we ALL got seomthing to say from our unique perspectives!
>             And I would LOVE to hear what you say ;)
>              
>             regarde
>              
>             Juliano
> 
>                 ----- Original Message -----
>                 *From:* Randy Faulconer <mailto:bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>                 *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>                 *Sent:* Saturday, May 31, 2008 4:09 AM
>                 *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy
>                 lately (randy)
>                          Hey yall, I had a note all written up and my
>                 Momma did something and it went to saved drafts and I
>                 couldn't get it back up. Uhhhhhh he said "get it
>                 up".............He He
>                        Anyway, I've been having a pretty hard time
>                 lately, my son got put in jail and I've been having a
>                 lot of problems with my back. Other thing too, too many
>                 to talk about really.
>                  
>                          My son got himself in some pretty deep shit,
>                 all because of alcohol. If he wasn't on probation it
>                 would have been opiates, but then he wouldn't have been
>                 all stupid and loud and idiotic enough to get put in
>                 jail but that's just supposing. Gatewood got him out of
>                 everything but the probation violation so he has to do
>                 32 more days. When I got his first letter I cried like a
>                 baby, I mean sobbing and whaling and shit. I'm so glad
>                 that my Momma was here to lean on. We've been helping
>                 each other out here lately. God I love her so, but I
>                 digress. I felt like his upbringing was the root of all
>                 of this shit and I damn near lost it. I know better, but
>                 he was so descriptive that I was right there in the cell
>                 with him and it killed be to think of him in jail like
>                 that. He'll do fine, he's a lot like me so he can adapt
>                 to just about anything but still.........fuck, my boy is
>                 in jail. The way he was brought up was a big part ot
>                 this. His mother didn't make him mind, hell she smoked
>                 with him when he was 12. We divorced when Randy was 8
>                 years old so I couldn't be there to keep him in line. I
>                 saw him on Christmas and shit but that's just not enough
>                 to make any difference really. Not that I'm any kind of
>                 saint or anything but I think I might have made a little
>                 difference anyway. I moved to Erie Pa right after we got
>                 divorced, hell the papers were still wet from the ink.
>                 That was my fault.
>                  
>                       I wasn't gonna lay all of this out on the list but
>                 I felt like I was gonna bust or something. There were a
>                 couple of people slam me for not trying to help in the
>                 right way here on the list, a couple of people that I
>                 really respect, and it hurt my feelings bad. I guess I'm
>                 just too sensitive for my own feakin' good. I mean I
>                 didn't think there was a wrong way to do the right
>                 thing, but I guess some people don't feel that way, so I
>                 kept my thoughts to myself and just read the list.
>                  
>                      I'm still working on getting treatment reports and
>                 accounts together so yall that haven't sent
>                 one................PLEASE help a brutha out. There are a
>                 few of you that have been here a while now that haven't
>                 sent an account, and I think that you all are important
>                 to the movement, we need to hear from you. You know who
>                 you are. Some of the old timers too.
>                  
>                       I'll try and write a little more to the list. It
>                 makes me feel better and that is what this list is for,
>                 not just dry information. We need all the information we
>                 can get but dealing with feelings is just as important.
>                 My opinion anyway. I think that Patrick would agree. I
>                 hope he doesn't mind me speaking for him like that, but
>                 I'll take the risk. 
>                  
>                          Peace Love and Kindness
>                             Randy
>                          BiscuitBoy Blues
>                 On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Brad Hays
>                 <bradleyheathhays at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>                     Randy will come back to us when he can, I'm sure
>                     On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:03 AM, LEE
>                     <JUNKBOY64 at msn.com <mailto:JUNKBOY64 at msn.com>> wrote:
> 
>                         I just realizeed that I havent hearrd from randy
>                         for a while... I miss your witty repartae
>                         randy...... email back so that I chan feel the
>                         love...... I was thinking about you, and I hoep
>                         you are doing good.... let me know if can help
>                         if you are having problems....... mujch love......
>                         junkster..... the junkboy..... it seems im a
>                         junkboy.... damn... the cops keep drivijg by
>                         thry ihg
>                         specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three
>                         and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from
>                         1959-1989. if you need anything call or email,
>                         we can get any part you need. new,used, or
>                         reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.
>                          
>                         if someone you love is addicted to something
>                         (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google
>                         ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
> 
>                             ----- Original Message -----
>                             *From:* Brad Hays
>                             <mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>
>                             *To:* The Ibogaine List
>                             <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>                             *Sent:* Monday, May 26, 2008 3:28 PM
>                             *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine article
>                             barcelona conference
>                             Would love to see all of this Howard, and
>                             thanks for your work on it.  Actually I'd
>                             like to see that article in opposition to
>                             ibogaine too if it's around.
>                             On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Howard
>                             Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com
>                             <mailto:hslotsof at phantom.com>> wrote:
> 
>                                 I had forwarded the entire newsletter of
>                                 May 11/12 from the Barcelona conference
>                                 that had the promotional article for the
>                                 ibogaine session to this list but, it
>                                 does not appear to have landed.;  I have
>                                 thus hoping that the article alone that
>                                 is much smaller will work. A later
>                                 edition of the Daily Update newsletter
>                                 contained an article in opposition to
>                                 ibogaine but, there is no doubt that
>                                 ibogaine prevailed during the special
>                                 session in which ibogaine presentations
>                                 took place and in the minds and hearts
>                                 of drug users and drug policy activists.
>                                 I will see if I can get all of the slide
>                                 shows and articles into a composite
>                                 report within the next few weeks.
>                                 Howard
> 
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From JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM  Sun Jun  1 09:33:41 2008
From: JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM (LEE)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 07:33:41 -0600
Subject: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
References: <265891.89008.qm@web28602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><008f01c8c3dd$e651d310$a55c1752@DHVZBJ2J>
	<48429BF0.2080104@ca.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV2C79475B3141C7DFC3221A9B80@phx.gbl>

Warren,
I don't like to say this, but call the pound everytime the dog is loose... it costs money to get your dog out of doggie jail (ie, the pound)... if the dog is always barking.. call the cops for the dog breaking the noise ordinance, call them especially after 10pm and the dog starts barking after the cops leave, call again... all citys have a nioise ordinance. needless to say keep a journal of each offence, even if the cops don't catch the dog, then after you have enough evidince to give to the animal cruality people, they will take the dog away, rehabilate it and find it a good home.........(ive had neighbors who wouldn't take care of their dog)
just my opinion......... people like to keep their money.....
junky


specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.

if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Warren Theriot<mailto:wleetheriot at ca.rr.com> 
  To: The Ibogaine List<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 6:54 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)


  Word.
  What about abused animals that are "unleashed" into the city 
  where their sickness spreads to affect the entire community?
  What am I talking about? See my videos on You Tube, key 
  words Barking Dog Tujunga Beckett. Last year I took Ibogaine 
    to get free from the anger I felt and the damned 
  prescription pain medications and returned home to this 
  environment where I survive by denying anger so as to not 
  let it get the best of me. No influence from drugs causing 
  the anger this time. It's the scene outside my front door 
  day and night that makes this world seem very cruel. I put 
  up with this after Thankgiving trying not to die from viral 
  meningitus, too sick to hardly move to put a pillow over my 
  ears over the spectacle across the street. Now its been a 
  year and three months in this environment.
  Peace someday...
  Warren


  Juliano wrote:
  > Hi Simon,
  >  
  > You said: /"// I want to say some thing about the fact that you said 
  > "these secrets need to be told" which I will get to;"/
  >  
  > Actually I said that the secret is/ already/ out. That in principle 
  > people could cultivate their own psychedelics if they wished to, and get 
  > informtaion as to how to have a Tryp.
  > Ie., there is no need to be  relying on being part of some 'mystery 
  > school', or going to a shaman, or medicine man.
  >  
  > Regarding the rest of your post. Yes the so-called 'mental health 
  > movement' it is all a shambles. This is because the whole ediface is 
  > built on a myth of mental illness. The very institutions really function 
  > as *social control*. And usually it has always been the poor that have 
  > been the main victims. So for example we have a VERY brutal oppressive 
  > system that is not just harsh physically for many, but also 
  > psychologically. But that ,especially, the latter brutality cannot even 
  > be /acknowledged /by the victims of it, because the paradigm that breeds 
  > brutality is being said to be the/ reality/
  >  
  > A good example is Soviet Russia (and this has never really gone away): 
  > IF an individual did not accept the 'communist' ideology they would be 
  > dragged before the psychiatrists and deemed to be 'mentally ill' and 
  > forcibly incarcerated and  drugged against their will.
  >  Because the paradigm, '/communism/' was believed to be the 'reality', 
  > and to question it in whatever way was deemed to be not-normal! Now if 
  > the person accused doesn't know anything BUT that system then even s/he 
  > may feel they are 'not-normal', right?
  >  
  > So compare that terrible scenario with ours. We have the 'capitalist' 
  > system which includes consumerism, and so on. IF you show distress about 
  > this, and any rebelliousness against the injustices, and abuse, of this 
  > system you too can be classed as being 'mentally ill', which can include 
  > being incarcerated and drugged against one's will, and/or stigmatized as 
  > an 'out patient' who needs to be 'on medication' because of 'mental 
  > illness', and all that that means in the community. How others think and 
  > behave with you, and how you think about yourself. 
  >  
  > Really the question is not who is going to fund this /myth/, it is how 
  > to /EXPOSE/ this myth. Show the /roots /of this evil myth. Because not 
  > only are people and children being abused by it, but planet Earth is now 
  > under attack by mindsets totally disconnected from the web of life!
  >  
  > regarde
  >  
  > Juliano
  > 
  >     ----- Original Message -----
  >     *From:* simon loxton <mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk<mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>>
  >     *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>>
  >     *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:33 AM
  >     *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
  > 
  >     I need to read your entire email and really take it in because I
  >     want to say some thing about the fact that you said "these secrets
  >     need to be told" which I will get to; but first lets look at the
  >     state of psychiatric care around the world. Most of the people who
  >     should be receiving in-patient care are on the streets or stuck with
  >     their families all due to excuses like lack of funding etc. Where I
  >     am about 25% of the main psychiatric hospital is in a semi-working
  >     condition and the patients that really need it are not receiving the
  >     care that they need. The same happened or is in the UK. I have seen
  >     dozens of documentaries on the way these people are treated in whats
  >     left of the facilities as well as first hand. So even if there was a
  >     change in the approach to the type of care or medication these
  >     people got where would they get it? Who would fund it? Who really
  >     cares and what percentage of any budget is currently allocated to
  >     these people? The only people that would possibly have access are
  >     the ones who have families to foot the bill. Its quite a change
  >     discussing psychiatric issues and it opens a lot of doors for
  >     conversation but I honestly see it as something that's in a state of
  >     decay outside of private health care. In private health care it is
  >     just as I got the impression of what is trying to be said and thats
  >     to prescribe the nearest thing at hand to deal with the symptoms.
  > 
  >     ----- Original Message ----
  >     From: Melanie Gutierrez <gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com<mailto:gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com>>
  >     To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>>
  >     Sent: Sunday, 1 June, 2008 3:55:36 AM
  >     Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
  > 
  >     This is the most powerful of statements,  
  > 
  >         One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are
  >         experiencing powerful visionary experiences. Most likely would
  >         be superfluous. But to be there with them offering loving
  >         support, yes.
  > 
  >      And that is totally where the medical community gets it wrong. 
  >     Where most people get it wrong.  I've spent quite a moment thinking
  >     how to approach this particular email.  Because, there are so many
  >     concurrent discussions going on right now that make this all very
  >     whole for me. 
  >     There is a science behind, and tests for psychiatric illness.  Now
  >     saying that, putting your example of Psychosis aside, because
  >     everything you said about psychosis is correct.  Its only a catch
  >     all term for the weird and bizarre unexplainable behavior that
  >     people some times display.  I say people because on this list at
  >     least most have had at least one type of break that is indescribable
  >     for them for what ever reason.  And the main line of treatment for
  >     Psychotic episodes is Anti- and benzo's, thats what I see in the
  >     medical community.  Just knock um out till its over.  10 of Haldol
  >     and  2 of Ativan standard ER care for someone freaking out.  Thats
  >     the truth.  I see the truth. 
  >     http://www.icd9data.com/2008/Volume1/290-319/290-294/291/291.3.htm<http://www.icd9data.com/2008/Volume1/290-319/290-294/291/291.3.htm>
  >     So there is alcohol physchosis.   Of course there is, we all know
  >     what alcohol does to the body in not moderated forms, when your
  >     initialy on, then when you initially stop a chronic useage.
  >      
  >     Other psychatric D/O are very testable, treatable on a holistic
  >     level with out the chemical masking making people fit in to the
  >     "norm" of what "should be".  But the medical community refuses to
  >     look at the whole picture.
  >      
  >     Good little link on Biological psychiatry in a mini e-textbook format.
  >     http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/~zfisar/bpen/default.htm<http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/~zfisar/bpen/default.htm>
  >     <http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/%7Ezfisar/bpen/default.htm<http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/~zfisar/bpen/default.htm>>
  >      
  >      I picked the page on Affective disorders, because that is my
  >     "label" that was given to me oh so long ago.  Bi-Polar, it was just
  >     manic depression when I was labeled with it, but now they even have
  >     levels on that.  Bi-Polar I and II.  Brillant, keep breaking it down
  >     and not treating the person still.  Anyhow, there I rant. 
  >     Holistic Medicine is what you (Juliano) basically are describing and
  >     it is the way the medical community needs to go in order to truely
  >     treat people.  Which brings me to Body, Mind and Soul/Spirit
  >     Every medical scientific community for the most part refuses to look
  >     at Spirit and how that fits into the works. 
  >     The concurrent discussion of Ibogaine going on with Howard, Simon,
  >     Sara and others.  Bwiti want to preserve the custom/religion of
  >     their practice.  Of Course they do, has western society proven to
  >     conserve and validate those practices that are Sacred to people. 
  >     NEVER have we.  Point taken there.  Now in the evolution of things,
  >     I feel Howards point of, They NEED to, because even when we treat
  >     addiction with Ibogaine with out the spiritual aspect that has
  >     worked for the Bwiti, we are still failing the sacred use of the
  >     plant, and just using it as a drug.  Much the way the medical
  >     community has failed to treat people. 
  >      
  >     Well I just proofed and this has went on longer than I wanted
  >     already.  But I must mention one more time, Newagism shit.  I've
  >     seen it called, new newagism even.  Ridiculous honestly IMO how much
  >     time we spend labeling.  Its a form of scientific based sprituality
  >     that works for me,  I choose to call it Mine. 
  >      
  >     Sharing common threads with people like Matt who right now is in a
  >     huge struggle and is winning is what I'm here for, Not to argue
  >     benign points with likeminded people who are all here for the better
  >     good of humanity.  Watching the evolution of Matt in his quest to
  >     figure this out for himSELF is a beautiful thing,  I support his
  >     self on a very personal level.  Thats what I'm here for currently. 
  >     And where I have been currently trying to make a difference on a
  >     very 1:1 level. 
  >     My dream job, working in the holistic energy center treating
  >     addiction/beh health issues that are real for people.  Yet being
  >     able to be real with people with out it being unprofessional. 
  >     Practicing modalities from all the cultures, reki, hypmotism, all
  >     that newagish shit. :)  Maybe even the Bwiti if they will let us in.
  >     Keep on Keepin on, Juliano.  The global fight continues.  I'm glad
  >     your helping fight it.
  >     Mel
  >      
  >      
  >     On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com<mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com>
  >     <mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com<mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com>>> wrote:
  > 
  >         Hi Simon,
  >          
  >         I will try and answer you questions best way I can: For a start
  >         there is no actual proof that mental illness is a biological
  >         disease. There are no tests.
  >         Of course there are human behaviours deemed disturbing and
  >         unacceptable by the prevailing authorities, but this doesn't
  >         make them diseases.
  >         rather, what is going on is a very serious game which is
  >         oppressing people. Ie., when people are accused of being 'ill',
  >         and then drugged, and/or electrocuted with ECT, and locked up,
  >         and tied up, and all the abuse of that, this means that the
  >         /bigger/ picture--the community, society, culture, world, is
  >         conveniently not being looked at.
  >          
  >         So I encouage us to look directly at what is going on, which
  >         means the whole picture. And to do this means looking at the
  >         pharmaceutical industry and its relationship with the military
  >         industrial complex!....the whole schbangle./ Otherwise/, you can
  >         only be apporaoching this problem in a very superficial way. No
  >         matter how arduous it may be to look!
  >          
  >         We /have/ to look. Not only because people are suffering under
  >         this oppression, but the very planet and its species are
  >         suffering under the onslaught of this oppression. it is ALL
  >         connected to this problem we are discussing. So to understand we
  >         need NOT compartmentalized thinking, which is the usual western
  >         scientific model, but a more Indigenous integrated vision.
  >          
  >         In my own person experience I was given LSD when I was very
  >         young, 15. I had no idea what the tiny pill was. But the
  >         experience, and others to follow brought me back to Nature. Ie.,
  >         in that short speace of time from being a small kid into Nature
  >         and faeryland to a school-hardened young lad into the 'big
  >         city', LSD dissolved all of that conditioning.
  >          
  >         Now you claim that people have been pushed into 'psychosis' via
  >         psychedelics? This is very complex because what this prevailing
  >         culture classes 'psychosis' is not an exact category and is very
  >         subjective. In the UK kids who smoke a very strong cannabis
  >         called Skunk had been daignosed as being 'psychotic'. And I am
  >         sure many people who drink alcohol can seem the same, but
  >         usually we dont hear it about drinkers.
  >          
  >         So, is there such a condition as 'psychosis'? Wel...yes, --not
  >         using that psychiatric term if possible--but it is not physical
  >         disease but a process!
  >          
  >         Of?
  >          
  >         To understand we have to again understand the vast enormous
  >         pressure we are under. For some, things become so pressurized
  >         that the 'ego''s boudaries--if you like--give up to a healing
  >         energy that takes over. And the person may experience mythical
  >         visions etc etc.
  >         What the shrinks usually want to do then is suppress these
  >         visions. Drug them away. And the person is given nervous-system
  >         damaging 'medication'. But THAT is not mentioned!! As long as
  >         they can suppress it is all they want. Because to deal with this
  >         challenges their worldviews.
  >          
  >         One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are
  >         experincing powerful visionary experiences. Most likey would be
  >         superfluous. But to be there with them offering loving support, yes.
  >          
  >         THE most important thing to consider with psychedelics is Set &
  >         Setting. And this includes loving open helpful advice. Not a
  >         culture that classes all forms of behaviour deemed not 'normal'
  >         as psychotic.
  >          
  >         it is somewhat of a coincidence that another member of this
  >         forum I am with that is about psychedelics has recently shared
  >         his terrible experience from the pharma-shrinks in Germany. For
  >         simply saying things they are not familiar with they diagnosed
  >         him 'psychotic' and locked him up!! If this discussion continues
  >         I will ask his permission to copy his posts here..
  >          
  >         See thing is Simon. the SECRET IS OUT! Unlike secret society's
  >         of past, etc. many people can if they desire cultivate their own
  >         psychedelics etc. So surely the most intelligen thing is to
  >         encourage and try and explore the most resepctul and intelligent
  >         and benevolent ways to exeperience with psychedelics.
  >          
  >         This must, in my opinion go hand in hand with UTMOST respect for
  >         the Land, and animals, all other species, and community.
  >          
  >         regarde
  >          
  >         Juliano
  >          
  >          
  > 
  >             ----- Original Message -----
  >             *From:* simon loxton <mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk<mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>>
  >             *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>>
  >             *Sent:* Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:01 PM
  >             *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy
  >             lately (randy)
  >             I just wanted to comment Juliano; on some of your mails;
  >             they seem to me to carry the sentiment that psychedelics are
  >             the answer to mental disorders. If I have missed the point I
  >             apologize but I have to bring up the number of cases of
  >             psychosis that psychedelics or psychotropic substances have
  >             caused. I cant comment on cases occurring in controlled
  >             circumstances or approached medically. I would just like to
  >             get your comment  on how you propose psychedelics are to be
  >             used in this respect. I only mention this as I see a
  >             possible danger from the drugs creating psychosis possibly
  >             in people that have borderline personality disorders or
  >             mental imbalances.  I apologize That I can come up with any
  >             other description other than mental imbalance and
  >             personality disorder but is the only two terms I can use to
  >             describe the type of persons where this type of medication
  >             would be contra indicated in my opinion, again I am only
  >             going with my limited understanding of mental illness but
  >             have witnessed these types of problems in people and
  >             especially instances where these conditions were aggravated
  >             or worsened by taking mind altering substances. But as I
  >             said earlier this was not anything to do with cases where
  >             the drugs were administered by a doctor or in a clinical
  >             environment. I am just trying to get to an understanding of
  >             what it is you are advocating. I do believe in mental
  >             illness and think there is enough evidence to support its
  >             existence; which is why I think I may be misunderstanding
  >             some of the sentiments you are bringing across. I look
  >             forward to your comment.
  >             I just saw a documentary that noted Carey Grant took LSD
  >             about 80 timed for alcoholism which I found interesting.
  >             This was at the stage where they were trying to figure out
  >             what LSD was useful for.
  >             ----- Original Message ----
  >             From: Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com<mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com>
  >             <mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com<mailto:juliano8 at ntlworld.com>>>
  >             To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>
  >             <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>>>
  >             Sent: Saturday, 31 May, 2008 10:07:11 AM
  >             Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately
  >             (randy)
  >             Hi Randy,
  >              
  >             Sorry to hear about your son.
  >              
  >             Just to say though/never worry about what people say. UNLESS
  >             they throw you off--which thers nothin you can do--please
  >             dont let anyone intimidate you from speaking as you see fit.
  >             we ALL got seomthing to say from our unique perspectives!
  >             And I would LOVE to hear what you say ;)
  >              
  >             regarde
  >              
  >             Juliano
  > 
  >                 ----- Original Message -----
  >                 *From:* Randy Faulconer <mailto:bicuitboy714 at gmail.com<mailto:bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>>
  >                 *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>>
  >                 *Sent:* Saturday, May 31, 2008 4:09 AM
  >                 *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy
  >                 lately (randy)
  >                          Hey yall, I had a note all written up and my
  >                 Momma did something and it went to saved drafts and I
  >                 couldn't get it back up. Uhhhhhh he said "get it
  >                 up".............He He
  >                        Anyway, I've been having a pretty hard time
  >                 lately, my son got put in jail and I've been having a
  >                 lot of problems with my back. Other thing too, too many
  >                 to talk about really.
  >                  
  >                          My son got himself in some pretty deep shit,
  >                 all because of alcohol. If he wasn't on probation it
  >                 would have been opiates, but then he wouldn't have been
  >                 all stupid and loud and idiotic enough to get put in
  >                 jail but that's just supposing. Gatewood got him out of
  >                 everything but the probation violation so he has to do
  >                 32 more days. When I got his first letter I cried like a
  >                 baby, I mean sobbing and whaling and shit. I'm so glad
  >                 that my Momma was here to lean on. We've been helping
  >                 each other out here lately. God I love her so, but I
  >                 digress. I felt like his upbringing was the root of all
  >                 of this shit and I damn near lost it. I know better, but
  >                 he was so descriptive that I was right there in the cell
  >                 with him and it killed be to think of him in jail like
  >                 that. He'll do fine, he's a lot like me so he can adapt
  >                 to just about anything but still.........fuck, my boy is
  >                 in jail. The way he was brought up was a big part ot
  >                 this. His mother didn't make him mind, hell she smoked
  >                 with him when he was 12. We divorced when Randy was 8
  >                 years old so I couldn't be there to keep him in line. I
  >                 saw him on Christmas and shit but that's just not enough
  >                 to make any difference really. Not that I'm any kind of
  >                 saint or anything but I think I might have made a little
  >                 difference anyway. I moved to Erie Pa right after we got
  >                 divorced, hell the papers were still wet from the ink.
  >                 That was my fault.
  >                  
  >                       I wasn't gonna lay all of this out on the list but
  >                 I felt like I was gonna bust or something. There were a
  >                 couple of people slam me for not trying to help in the
  >                 right way here on the list, a couple of people that I
  >                 really respect, and it hurt my feelings bad. I guess I'm
  >                 just too sensitive for my own feakin' good. I mean I
  >                 didn't think there was a wrong way to do the right
  >                 thing, but I guess some people don't feel that way, so I
  >                 kept my thoughts to myself and just read the list.
  >                  
  >                      I'm still working on getting treatment reports and
  >                 accounts together so yall that haven't sent
  >                 one................PLEASE help a brutha out. There are a
  >                 few of you that have been here a while now that haven't
  >                 sent an account, and I think that you all are important
  >                 to the movement, we need to hear from you. You know who
  >                 you are. Some of the old timers too.
  >                  
  >                       I'll try and write a little more to the list. It
  >                 makes me feel better and that is what this list is for,
  >                 not just dry information. We need all the information we
  >                 can get but dealing with feelings is just as important.
  >                 My opinion anyway. I think that Patrick would agree. I
  >                 hope he doesn't mind me speaking for him like that, but
  >                 I'll take the risk. 
  >                  
  >                          Peace Love and Kindness
  >                             Randy
  >                          BiscuitBoy Blues
  >                 On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Brad Hays
  >                 <bradleyheathhays at gmail.com<mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>
  >                 <mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com<mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>>> wrote:
  > 
  >                     Randy will come back to us when he can, I'm sure
  >                     On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:03 AM, LEE
  >                     <JUNKBOY64 at msn.com<mailto:JUNKBOY64 at msn.com> <mailto:JUNKBOY64 at msn.com<mailto:JUNKBOY64 at msn.com>>> wrote:
  > 
  >                         I just realizeed that I havent hearrd from randy
  >                         for a while... I miss your witty repartae
  >                         randy...... email back so that I chan feel the
  >                         love...... I was thinking about you, and I hoep
  >                         you are doing good.... let me know if can help
  >                         if you are having problems....... mujch love......
  >                         junkster..... the junkboy..... it seems im a
  >                         junkboy.... damn... the cops keep drivijg by
  >                         thry ihg
  >                         specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three
  >                         and four wheelers), and snowmobile parts from
  >                         1959-1989. if you need anything call or email,
  >                         we can get any part you need. new,used, or
  >                         reproduction. even if the part is obsolete.
  >                          
  >                         if someone you love is addicted to something
  >                         (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google
  >                         ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
  > 
  >                             ----- Original Message -----
  >                             *From:* Brad Hays
  >                             <mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com<mailto:bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>>
  >                             *To:* The Ibogaine List
  >                             <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com<mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>>
  >                             *Sent:* Monday, May 26, 2008 3:28 PM
  >                             *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine article
  >                             barcelona conference
  >                             Would love to see all of this Howard, and
  >                             thanks for your work on it.  Actually I'd
  >                             like to see that article in opposition to
  >                             ibogaine too if it's around.
  >                             On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Howard
  >                             Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com<mailto:hslotsof at phantom.com>
  >                             <mailto:hslotsof at phantom.com<mailto:hslotsof at phantom.com>>> wrote:
  > 
  >                                 I had forwarded the entire newsletter of
  >                                 May 11/12 from the Barcelona conference
  >                                 that had the promotional article for the
  >                                 ibogaine session to this list but, it
  >                                 does not appear to have landed.;  I have
  >                                 thus hoping that the article alone that
  >                                 is much smaller will work. A later
  >                                 edition of the Daily Update newsletter
  >                                 contained an article in opposition to
  >                                 ibogaine but, there is no doubt that
  >                                 ibogaine prevailed during the special
  >                                 session in which ibogaine presentations
  >                                 took place and in the minds and hearts
  >                                 of drug users and drug policy activists.
  >                                 I will see if I can get all of the slide
  >                                 shows and articles into a composite
  >                                 report within the next few weeks.
  >                                 Howard
  > 
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  >                         ~~_/) ~~
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From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 10:03:18 2008
From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:03:18 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
In-Reply-To: <008f01c8c3dd$e651d310$a55c1752@DHVZBJ2J>
References: <265891.89008.qm@web28602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<008f01c8c3dd$e651d310$a55c1752@DHVZBJ2J>
Message-ID: <1f5488f0806010703r36234518n45afbed5c8c9878f@mail.gmail.com>

Man alive! I'm gonna save this one for later, but I did get through your
first post J.  Yes very well presented and yes disillusion is just that
deeply a part of our culture.  I believe this kids got on to something
yall.

This is gonna sound stupid, but if you'll indulge me got a couple questions:

anybody in your family ever been diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy?
and what do you see when you close your eyes to go to sleep at night?

And if your buddy doesn't mind I'd like to see what he's had to say about
things.  I've known a number of mentally disabled people that had artistic
ability out the roof.  Whats on the outside is def not always whats on the
inside.



On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com> wrote:

>  Hi Simon,
>
> You said: *"** I want to say some thing about the fact that you said
> "these secrets need to be told" which I will get to;"*
>
> Actually I said that the secret is* already* out. That in principle people
> could cultivate their own psychedelics if they wished to, and get
> informtaion as to how to have a Tryp.
> Ie., there is no need to be  relying on being part of some 'mystery
> school', or going to a shaman, or medicine man.
>
> Regarding the rest of your post. Yes the so-called 'mental health
> movement' it is all a shambles. This is because the whole ediface is built
> on a myth of mental illness. The very institutions really function as *social
> control*. And usually it has always been the poor that have been the main
> victims. So for example we have a VERY brutal oppressive system that is not
> just harsh physically for many, but also psychologically. But that
> ,especially, the latter brutality cannot even be *acknowledged *by the
> victims of it, because the paradigm that breeds brutality is being said to
> be the* reality*
>
> A good example is Soviet Russia (and this has never really gone away): IF
> an individual did not accept the 'communist' ideology they would be dragged
> before the psychiatrists and deemed to be 'mentally ill' and forcibly
> incarcerated and  drugged against their will.
>  Because the paradigm, '*communism*' was believed to be the 'reality', and
> to question it in whatever way was deemed to be not-normal! Now if the
> person accused doesn't know anything BUT that system then even s/he may feel
> they are 'not-normal', right?
>
> So compare that terrible scenario with ours. We have the 'capitalist'
> system which includes consumerism, and so on. IF you show distress about
> this, and any rebelliousness against the injustices, and abuse, of this
> system you too can be classed as being 'mentally ill', which can include
> being incarcerated and drugged against one's will, and/or stigmatized as an
> 'out patient' who needs to be 'on medication' because of 'mental illness',
> and all that that means in the community. How others think and behave with
> you, and how you think about yourself.
>
> Really the question is not who is going to fund this *myth*, it is how to
> *EXPOSE* this myth. Show the *roots *of this evil myth. Because not only
> are people and children being abused by it, but planet Earth is now under
> attack by mindsets totally disconnected from the web of life!
>
> regarde
>
> Juliano
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:33 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
>
>  I need to read your entire email and really take it in because I want to
> say some thing about the fact that you said "these secrets need to be told"
> which I will get to; but first lets look at the state of psychiatric care
> around the world. Most of the people who should be receiving in-patient care
> are on the streets or stuck with their families all due to excuses like lack
> of funding etc. Where I am about 25% of the main psychiatric hospital is in
> a semi-working condition and the patients that really need it are not
> receiving the care that they need. The same happened or is in the UK. I have
> seen dozens of documentaries on the way these people are treated in whats
> left of the facilities as well as first hand. So even if there was a change
> in the approach to the type of care or medication these people got where
> would they get it? Who would fund it? Who really cares and what percentage
> of any budget is currently allocated to these people? The only people that
> would possibly have access are the ones who have families to foot the bill.
> Its quite a change discussing psychiatric issues and it opens a lot of doors
> for conversation but I honestly see it as something that's in a state of
> decay outside of private health care. In private health care it is just as I
> got the impression of what is trying to be said and thats to prescribe the
> nearest thing at hand to deal with the symptoms.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Melanie Gutierrez <gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 1 June, 2008 3:55:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
>
> This is the most powerful of statements,
>
> One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are experiencing
> powerful visionary experiences. Most likely would be superfluous. But to be
> there with them offering loving support, yes.
>
>  And that is totally where the medical community gets it wrong.  Where most
> people get it wrong.  I've spent quite a moment thinking how to approach
> this particular email.  Because, there are so many concurrent discussions
> going on right now that make this all very whole for me.
> There is a science behind, and tests for psychiatric illness.  Now saying
> that, putting your example of Psychosis aside, because everything you said
> about psychosis is correct.  Its only a catch all term for the weird and
> bizarre unexplainable behavior that people some times display.  I say people
> because on this list at least most have had at least one type of break that
> is indescribable for them for what ever reason.  And the main line of
> treatment for Psychotic episodes is Anti- and benzo's, thats what I see in
> the medical community.  Just knock um out till its over.  10 of Haldol and
> 2 of Ativan standard ER care for someone freaking out.  Thats the truth.  I
> see the truth.
> http://www.icd9data.com/2008/Volume1/290-319/290-294/291/291.3.htm
> So there is alcohol physchosis.   Of course there is, we all know what
> alcohol does to the body in not moderated forms, when your initialy on, then
> when you initially stop a chronic useage.
>
> Other psychatric D/O are very testable, treatable on a holistic level with
> out the chemical masking making people fit in to the "norm" of what "should
> be".  But the medical community refuses to look at the whole picture.
>
> Good little link on Biological psychiatry in a mini e-textbook format.
> http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/~zfisar/bpen/default.htm<http://www1.lf1.cuni.cz/%7Ezfisar/bpen/default.htm>
>
>  I picked the page on Affective disorders, because that is my "label" that
> was given to me oh so long ago.  Bi-Polar, it was just manic depression when
> I was labeled with it, but now they even have levels on that.  Bi-Polar I
> and II.  Brillant, keep breaking it down and not treating the person still.
> Anyhow, there I rant.
> Holistic Medicine is what you (Juliano) basically are describing and it is
> the way the medical community needs to go in order to truely treat people.
> Which brings me to Body, Mind and Soul/Spirit
> Every medical scientific community for the most part refuses to look at
> Spirit and how that fits into the works.
> The concurrent discussion of Ibogaine going on with Howard, Simon, Sara and
> others.  Bwiti want to preserve the custom/religion of their practice.  Of
> Course they do, has western society proven to conserve and validate those
> practices that are Sacred to people.  NEVER have we.  Point taken there.
> Now in the evolution of things, I feel Howards point of, They NEED to,
> because even when we treat addiction with Ibogaine with out the spiritual
> aspect that has worked for the Bwiti, we are still failing the sacred use of
> the plant, and just using it as a drug.  Much the way the medical community
> has failed to treat people.
>
> Well I just proofed and this has went on longer than I wanted already.  But
> I must mention one more time, Newagism shit.  I've seen it called, new
> newagism even.  Ridiculous honestly IMO how much time we spend labeling.
> Its a form of scientific based sprituality that works for me,  I choose to
> call it Mine.
>
> Sharing common threads with people like Matt who right now is in a huge
> struggle and is winning is what I'm here for, Not to argue benign points
> with likeminded people who are all here for the better good of humanity.
> Watching the evolution of Matt in his quest to figure this out for himSELF
> is a beautiful thing,  I support his self on a very personal level.  Thats
> what I'm here for currently.  And where I have been currently trying to make
> a difference on a very 1:1 level.
> My dream job, working in the holistic energy center treating addiction/beh
> health issues that are real for people.  Yet being able to be real with
> people with out it being unprofessional.  Practicing modalities from all the
> cultures, reki, hypmotism, all that newagish shit. :)  Maybe even the Bwiti
> if they will let us in.
> Keep on Keepin on, Juliano.  The global fight continues.  I'm glad your
> helping fight it.
> Mel
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi Simon,
>>
>> I will try and answer you questions best way I can: For a start there is
>> no actual proof that mental illness is a biological disease. There are no
>> tests.
>> Of course there are human behaviours deemed disturbing and unacceptable by
>> the prevailing authorities, but this doesn't make them diseases.
>> rather, what is going on is a very serious game which is oppressing
>> people. Ie., when people are accused of being 'ill', and then drugged,
>> and/or electrocuted with ECT, and locked up, and tied up, and all the abuse
>> of that, this means that the *bigger* picture--the community, society,
>> culture, world, is conveniently not being looked at.
>>
>> So I encouage us to look directly at what is going on, which means the
>> whole picture. And to do this means looking at the pharmaceutical industry
>> and its relationship with the military industrial complex!....the whole
>> schbangle.* Otherwise*, you can only be apporaoching this problem in a
>> very superficial way. No matter how arduous it may be to look!
>>
>> We *have* to look. Not only because people are suffering under this
>> oppression, but the very planet and its species are suffering under the
>> onslaught of this oppression. it is ALL connected to this problem we are
>> discussing. So to understand we need NOT compartmentalized thinking, which
>> is the usual western scientific model, but a more Indigenous integrated
>> vision.
>>
>> In my own person experience I was given LSD when I was very young, 15. I
>> had no idea what the tiny pill was. But the experience, and others to follow
>> brought me back to Nature. Ie., in that short speace of time from being a
>> small kid into Nature and faeryland to a school-hardened young lad into the
>> 'big city', LSD dissolved all of that conditioning.
>>
>> Now you claim that people have been pushed into 'psychosis' via
>> psychedelics? This is very complex because what this prevailing culture
>> classes 'psychosis' is not an exact category and is very subjective. In the
>> UK kids who smoke a very strong cannabis called Skunk had been daignosed as
>> being 'psychotic'. And I am sure many people who drink alcohol can seem the
>> same, but usually we dont hear it about drinkers.
>>
>> So, is there such a condition as 'psychosis'? Wel...yes, --not using that
>> psychiatric term if possible--but it is not physical disease but a process!
>>
>> Of?
>>
>> To understand we have to again understand the vast enormous pressure we
>> are under. For some, things become so pressurized that the 'ego''s
>> boudaries--if you like--give up to a healing energy that takes over. And the
>> person may experience mythical visions etc etc.
>> What the shrinks usually want to do then is suppress these visions. Drug
>> them away. And the person is given nervous-system damaging 'medication'. But
>> THAT is not mentioned!! As long as they can suppress it is all they want.
>> Because to deal with this challenges their worldviews.
>>
>> One doesn't need to give psychedelics to people who are experincing
>> powerful visionary experiences. Most likey would be superfluous. But to be
>> there with them offering loving support, yes.
>>
>> THE most important thing to consider with psychedelics is Set & Setting.
>> And this includes loving open helpful advice. Not a culture that classes all
>> forms of behaviour deemed not 'normal' as psychotic.
>>
>> it is somewhat of a coincidence that another member of this forum I am
>> with that is about psychedelics has recently shared his terrible experience
>> from the pharma-shrinks in Germany. For simply saying things they are not
>> familiar with they diagnosed him 'psychotic' and locked him up!! If this
>> discussion continues I will ask his permission to copy his posts here..
>>
>> See thing is Simon. the SECRET IS OUT! Unlike secret society's of past,
>> etc. many people can if they desire cultivate their own psychedelics etc. So
>> surely the most intelligen thing is to encourage and try and explore the
>> most resepctul and intelligent and benevolent ways to exeperience with
>> psychedelics.
>>
>> This must, in my opinion go hand in hand with UTMOST respect for the Land,
>> and animals, all other species, and community.
>>
>> regarde
>>
>> Juliano
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>   *Sent:* Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:01 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
>>   I just wanted to comment Juliano; on some of your mails; they seem to
>> me to carry the sentiment that psychedelics are the answer to mental
>> disorders. If I have missed the point I apologize but I have to bring up the
>> number of cases of psychosis that psychedelics or psychotropic substances
>> have caused. I cant comment on cases occurring in controlled circumstances
>> or approached medically. I would just like to get your comment  on how you
>> propose psychedelics are to be used in this respect. I only mention this as
>> I see a possible danger from the drugs creating psychosis possibly in people
>> that have borderline personality disorders or mental imbalances.  I
>> apologize That I can come up with any other description other than mental
>> imbalance and personality disorder but is the only two terms I can use to
>> describe the type of persons where this type of medication would be contra
>> indicated in my opinion, again I am only going with my limited understanding
>> of mental illness but have witnessed these types of problems in people and
>> especially instances where these conditions were aggravated or worsened by
>> taking mind altering substances. But as I said earlier this was not anything
>> to do with cases where the drugs were administered by a doctor or in a
>> clinical environment. I am just trying to get to an understanding of what it
>> is you are advocating. I do believe in mental illness and think there is
>> enough evidence to support its existence; which is why I think I may be
>> misunderstanding some of the sentiments you are bringing across. I look
>> forward to your comment. I just saw a documentary that noted Carey Grant
>> took LSD about 80 timed for alcoholism which I found interesting. This was
>> at the stage where they were trying to figure out what LSD was useful for.
>>   ----- Original Message ---- From: Juliano <juliano8 at ntlworld.com>
>> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, 31 May, 2008 10:07:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
>>  Hi Randy,
>>
>> Sorry to hear about your son.
>>
>> Just to say though/never worry about what people say. UNLESS they throw
>> you off--which thers nothin you can do--please dont let anyone intimidate
>> you from speaking as you see fit. we ALL got seomthing to say from our
>> unique perspectives!
>> And I would LOVE to hear what you say ;)
>>
>> regarde
>>
>> Juliano
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 31, 2008 4:09 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
>>           Hey yall, I had a note all written up and my Momma did
>> something and it went to saved drafts and I couldn't get it back up. Uhhhhhh
>> he said "get it up".............He He
>>        Anyway, I've been having a pretty hard time lately, my son got put
>> in jail and I've been having a lot of problems with my back. Other thing
>> too, too many to talk about really.
>>
>>          My son got himself in some pretty deep shit, all because of
>> alcohol. If he wasn't on probation it would have been opiates, but then he
>> wouldn't have been all stupid and loud and idiotic enough to get put in jail
>> but that's just supposing. Gatewood got him out of everything but the
>> probation violation so he has to do 32 more days. When I got his first
>> letter I cried like a baby, I mean sobbing and whaling and shit. I'm so glad
>> that my Momma was here to lean on. We've been helping each other out here
>> lately. God I love her so, but I digress. I felt like his upbringing was the
>> root of all of this shit and I damn near lost it. I know better, but he was
>> so descriptive that I was right there in the cell with him and it killed be
>> to think of him in jail like that. He'll do fine, he's a lot like me so he
>> can adapt to just about anything but still.........fuck, my boy is in jail.
>> The way he was brought up was a big part ot this. His mother didn't make him
>> mind, hell she smoked with him when he was 12. We divorced when Randy was 8
>> years old so I couldn't be there to keep him in line. I saw him on Christmas
>> and shit but that's just not enough to make any difference really. Not that
>> I'm any kind of saint or anything but I think I might have made a little
>> difference anyway. I moved to Erie Pa right after we got divorced, hell the
>> papers were still wet from the ink. That was my fault.
>>
>>       I wasn't gonna lay all of this out on the list but I felt like I was
>> gonna bust or something. There were a couple of people slam me for not
>> trying to help in the right way here on the list, a couple of people that I
>> really respect, and it hurt my feelings bad. I guess I'm just too sensitive
>> for my own feakin' good. I mean I didn't think there was a wrong way to do
>> the right thing, but I guess some people don't feel that way, so I kept my
>> thoughts to myself and just read the list.
>>
>>      I'm still working on getting treatment reports and accounts together
>> so yall that haven't sent one................PLEASE help a brutha out. There
>> are a few of you that have been here a while now that haven't sent an
>> account, and I think that you all are important to the movement, we need to
>> hear from you. You know who you are. Some of the old timers too.
>>
>>       I'll try and write a little more to the list. It makes me feel
>> better and that is what this list is for, not just dry information. We need
>> all the information we can get but dealing with feelings is just as
>> important. My opinion anyway. I think that Patrick would agree. I hope he
>> doesn't mind me speaking for him like that, but I'll take the risk.
>>
>>          Peace Love and Kindness
>>             Randy
>>          BiscuitBoy Blues
>>  On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Brad Hays <bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Randy will come back to us when he can, I'm sure
>>>    On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:03 AM, LEE <JUNKBOY64 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I just realizeed that I havent hearrd from randy for a while... I miss
>>>> your witty repartae randy...... email back so that I chan feel the
>>>> love...... I was thinking about you, and I hoep you are doing good.... let
>>>> me know if can help if you are having problems....... mujch love......
>>>> junkster..... the junkboy..... it seems im a junkboy.... damn... the
>>>> cops keep drivijg by thry ihg
>>>> specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and
>>>> snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can
>>>> get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is
>>>> obsolete.
>>>>
>>>> if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth,
>>>> ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Brad Hays <bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>
>>>> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 26, 2008 3:28 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine article barcelona conference
>>>>  Would love to see all of this Howard, and thanks for your work on it.
>>>> Actually I'd like to see that article in opposition to ibogaine too if it's
>>>> around.
>>>>   On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Howard Lotsof <hslotsof at phantom.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I had forwarded the entire newsletter of May 11/12 from the Barcelona
>>>>> conference that had the promotional article for the ibogaine session to this
>>>>> list but, it does not appear to have landed.;  I have thus hoping that the
>>>>> article alone that is much smaller will work. A later edition of the Daily
>>>>> Update newsletter contained an article in opposition to ibogaine but, there
>>>>> is no doubt that ibogaine prevailed during the special session in which
>>>>> ibogaine presentations took place and in the minds and hearts of drug users
>>>>> and drug policy activists.
>>>>> I will see if I can get all of the slide shows and articles into a
>>>>> composite report within the next few weeks.
>>>>>  Howard
>>>>>
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>>>> ~~_/) ~~
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From sara119 at xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  1 10:07:09 2008
From: sara119 at xs4all.nl (Sara Glatt)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:07:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ibogaine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <13295.80.127.42.14.1212329229.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

Hi Juliano,

there is no need to go anywhere to do something about yourself, the truth
is that some people who are named Shaman or Medicine man or woman do have
healing energies, just like some plants and animals do.

for example, in Israel lives a lady who can't get children, she was
a victim of war crimes in the 2ed world war, now
 many years after she gives blessing to women who can not get pregnant,
(medically could not get any help) and most of her blessing are working.

there is another lady who experienced peyote in the Indian reservation she
can heal people tuning into that vibe she experienced while on Peyote
and she is using it for channeling healing energies.

Cabalistic healing, healing mantra's are also things we can learn,
 but we are not all capable to do so,then we look for help.

when people are mentally ill they don't think about themselves.
I have treated a man who thought he was The Messiah, and a lady who heard
voices, who were controlling her life,
also a person who didn't know where he was and what he should be eating 
or drinking, just tripping from too much interferon medication.
 those people couldn't take care of the most simple things kids know how
to do. they all got medication after their family couldn't take care of
them.

this is just to give you the idea that it is not that simple as you think,
people are complex being, the good, the bad and the ugly.

 Hi Simon,
>
> You said: " I want to say some thing about the fact that you said "these
> secrets need to be told" which I will get to;"
>
> Actually I said that the secret is already out. That in principle people
> could cultivate their own psychedelics if they wished to, and get
> informtaion as to how to have a Tryp.
> Ie., there is no need to be  relying on being part of some 'mystery
> school', or going to a shaman, or medicine man.
>
> Regarding the rest of your post. Yes the so-called 'mental health
> movement' it is all a shambles. This is because the whole ediface is built
> on a myth of mental illness. The very institutions really function as
> social control. And usually it has always been the poor that have been the
> main victims. So for example we have a VERY brutal oppressive system that
> is not just harsh physically for many, but also psychologically. But that
> ,especially, the latter%2


From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 11:02:57 2008
From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:02:57 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-DAV2C79475B3141C7DFC3221A9B80@phx.gbl>
References: <265891.89008.qm@web28602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<008f01c8c3dd$e651d310$a55c1752@DHVZBJ2J> <48429BF0.2080104@ca.rr.com>
	<BAY103-DAV2C79475B3141C7DFC3221A9B80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1f5488f0806010802k390dc50bu8d2927a22c6855d0@mail.gmail.com>

Same advice here Warren.  Flipped through that video and theres no way I
could listen to that.  I would gradually make friends with that guy cause he
isn't gonna be too happy when they get taken away.  Sometimes with two dogs
only one of em is the barker so maybe he won't lose both of em



On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:33 AM, LEE <JUNKBOY64 at msn.com> wrote:

>  Warren,
> I don't like to say this, but call the pound everytime the dog is loose...
> it costs money to get your dog out of doggie jail (ie, the pound)... if the
> dog is always barking.. call the cops for the dog breaking the noise
> ordinance, call them especially after 10pm and the dog starts barking after
> the cops leave, call again... all citys have a nioise ordinance. needless to
> say keep a journal of each offence, even if the cops don't catch the dog,
> then after you have enough evidince to give to the animal cruality people,
> they will take the dog away, rehabilate it and find it a good
> home.........(ive had neighbors who wouldn't take care of their dog)
> just my opinion......... people like to keep their money.....
> junky
>
>
> specializing in vintage motorcycle, atv (three and four wheelers), and
> snowmobile parts from 1959-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can
> get any part you need. new,used, or reproduction. even if the part is
> obsolete.
>
> if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect),
> google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Warren Theriot <wleetheriot at ca.rr.com>
> *To:* The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2008 6:54 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately (randy)
>
> Word.
> What about abused animals that are "unleashed" into the city
> where their sickness spreads to affect the entire community?
> What am I talking about? See my videos on You Tube, key
> words Barking Dog Tujunga Beckett. Last year I took Ibogaine
>   to get free from the anger I felt and the damned
> prescription pain medications and returned home to this
> environment where I survive by denying anger so as to not
> let it get the best of me. No influence from drugs causing
> the anger this time. It's the scene outside my front door
> day and night that makes this world seem very cruel. I put
> up with this after Thankgiving trying not to die from viral
> meningitus, too sick to hardly move to put a pillow over my
> ears over the spectacle across the street. Now its been a
> year and three months in this environment.
> Peace someday...
> Warren
>
>
> Juliano wrote:
> > Hi Simon,
> >
> > You said: /"// I want to say some thing about the fact that you said
> > "these secrets need to be told" which I will get to;"/
> >
> > Actually I said that the secret is/ already/ out. That in principle
> > people could cultivate their own psychedelics if they wished to, and get
> > informtaion as to how to have a Tryp.
> > Ie., there is no need to be  relying on being part of some 'mystery
> > school', or going to a shaman, or medicine man.
> >
> > Regarding the rest of your post. Yes the so-called 'mental health
> > movement' it is all a shambles. This is because the whole ediface is
> > built on a myth of mental illness. The very institutions really function
> > as *social control*. And usually it has always been the poor that have
> > been the main victims. So for example we have a VERY brutal oppressive
> > system that is not just harsh physically for many, but also
> > psychologically. But that ,especially, the latter brutality cannot even
> > be /acknowledged /by the victims of it, because the paradigm that breeds
> > brutality is being said to be the/ reality/
> >
> > A good example is Soviet Russia (and this has never really gone away):
> > IF an individual did not accept the 'communist' ideology they would be
> > dragged before the psychiatrists and deemed to be 'mentally ill' and
> > forcibly incarcerated and  drugged against their will.
> >  Because the paradigm, '/communism/' was believed to be the 'reality',
> > and to question it in whatever way was deemed to be not-normal! Now if
> > the person accused doesn't know anything BUT that system then even s/he
> > may feel they are 'not-normal', right?
> >
> > So compare that terrible scenario with ours. We have the 'capitalist'
> > system which includes consumerism, and so on. IF you show distress about
> > this, and any rebelliousness against the injustices, and abuse, of this
> > system you too can be classed as being 'mentally ill', which can include
> > being incarcerated and drugged against one's will, and/or stigmatized as
> > an 'out patient' who needs to be 'on medication' because of 'mental
> > illness', and all that that means in the community. How others think and
> > behave with you, and how you think about yourself.
> >
> > Really the question is not who is going to fund this /myth/, it is how
> > to /EXPOSE/ this myth. Show the /roots /of this evil myth. Because not
> > only are people and children being abused by it, but planet Earth is now
> > under attack by mindsets totally disconnected from the web of life!
> >
> > regarde
> >
> > Juliano
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     *From:* simon loxton <mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk<simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> >     *To:* The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com<ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >
> >     *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:33 AM
> >     *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] ianyone heard from buscit boy lately
> (randy)
> >
> >     I need to read your entire email and really take it in because I
> >     want to say some thing about the fact that you said "these secrets
> >     need to be told" which I