[Ibogaine] Booster Dose Protocol !

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Wed Jul 23 04:58:26 EDT 2008


Yes I understand what you are saying; that it can become a sort of crutch but I have found that it helps the post treatment therapy and am also speaking with reference to intervals of no closer than a month in between. But like I said with that patients that have stayed in contact only a maximum of 4 boosters of between a teaspoon and a tablespoon if iboga was used within a two year period. This helped prevent relapse due to craving and besides craving there was one case where stress was the triggers and now thanks to the booster combined with therapy its like a completely different person in terms on confidence



----- Original Message ----
From: Kevin Walker <kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 23 July, 2008 9:37:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Booster Dose Protocol !

 
Charles,
 
Maybe the word dependant was the incorrect word to have been used, and also  seen in the wrong context for the remainder of my sentence!
I was referring more to the fact of the "Back Door" being open and a  psychological thought planted once again, that of another "lifeline" in the  event of possible relapse or being in that low feeling. Once again the emphasis  on the patient working through the problems with their counsellor or support  system.
 
Kevin 
___________________________________________________________________
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Tel:+27 11  9764314
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Charles Rossouw 
To: The Ibogaine List 
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:16    AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Booster Dose    Protocol !

Hi Matt
 
I responded to the following speculation by Kevin:
 
"we could be looking for long term problems with regard to a person    becoming dependant on it"  
 
and meant that I don't think that its possible for boosters/small    doses to lead dependance, as happens with Subutex or Methadone, or with a    substitution like alcohol or body-building.  True, some may view it as an    "emergency brake" in case they mess up, but the booster is meant to intervene    before relapse, not after - so the key (and the problem) is for a person    to recognise when the booster is required.  As for small daily doses    (0.5-1mg/kg/day), I have never used this for any period longer than a couple    of days, but I think Dmitri and Clare (Please forgive me if I am    mistaken) said that people stop taking it spontaneously after 10-14    days.

Good to hear you're doing well!
 
Go well
 
Charles

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Matthew Zielinski    <masterhermesbathory at gmail.com>    wrote:

I cant imagine anybody taking small doses for a 2 week period.  It      could definetly produce negative results in that your sleep paterns would be      disturbed, metabolism slowed down etc
 
I was talking about regular boosters spaced out acording to an      individual need/want
 
There is a reason why the Bwiti have their night ceremonies and ingest      a spoon or two every once in a while.  Its definetly not only for the      purpose to stay awake and dance all night.  It is because      they understand the profound effect it produces.  The memory is      enhanced, alertness increases, profound mental clarity and awarness of your      self and the world around you.  (just my opinion but how can it be      otherwise?)
 
And I cant see anyone abusing it.  The taste thing we covered plus      its a mind altering experience.  How can you propser in physical      reality if you only foucs on the spiritual and non physical?  It would      imposible, therefore a logical rational "recovering addict' would see      between the lines.
 
Charles what do you mean by secondary addiction?
 
4 months and 2 weeks tommorow and going strong!!
Matt

 
On 7/22/08, Charles      Rossouw <charles.rossouw at gmail.com> wrote: 
Also, according to presenters at the DC forum in February small daily        doses seem to be a self-limiting practise in that someone cannot use        ibogaine beyond 10 -14 days before the user feels uncomfortable to        continue.  It will be very difficult to continue into secondary        addiction if this is the case (Which I believe it is).
 
I agree that spreading the dose is equally effective wrt addiction        treatment, without the "flood" dose.  I think I have elaborated on        this a while ago.
 
Regards
 
Charles
 
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Matthew Zielinski        <masterhermesbathory at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kevin
 
This want meant for Simon but I want to put in my opinion.
 
To be sucesfull on the road to recovery it is          esential to form a new habit of thinking.  It takes time          for the new habbits to become firmly set in the mind.  Boosters may          help prolong that sobriety time which in turn causes new          neruotransimters to build etc etc.  I think anybody in their right          frame of mind cant abuse Iboga/ibogaine since it has too much of a          supernatural kick.  The issues are being worked out while the          booster doses take effect.  Eventually the boosters will be          elimienated since new habbit of thinking/reacting will take place.  
 
Take care
Matt

 
On 7/22/08, Kevin          Walker <kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com> wrote: 
Simon, 
 
While booster doses have worked for us in the past as well, I            would think that one must also be careful when considering            including this type of regime into the protocol as we could be            looking for long term problems with regard to a person becoming            dependant on it and really not working that hard on other areas of his            recovery if in the back of his / her mind there is a back stop - that            being the booster.
 
Remember that at the moment Ibogaine / Iboga is really seen as            this awful tasting substance that someone cant really become accustom            too and only ingests once or twice maybe to eradicate the            withdrawal and cravings associated to the drug / drugs of            choice.Also if one was to follow this protocol for how long            would you need to continue it for and at what cost to the            patient?
 
Would it not be more worthwhile, rather to increase the dose per            / Kg body weight, and split the dosage up over an extended            period  i.e. lets just say we have a patient that would be            ingesting 8 capsules, one test dose balance being flood dose, but            this dosage gets split up into say fourteen capsules and administered            to the patient over a period of say 14 hours as apposed to the norm of            the flood dose / or dosage split up into fewer hours.
 
Although the "tripping effect" seems to be slightly less the long            term effect seems to be better, in that those cravings and            potential withdraws have been displaced for an extended period of time            - allowing better long term healing! Hence no booster dose needed. 
 
Regards
Kevin.
 ___________________________________________________________________
NHP            / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
 

Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
This message is            intended for the use of the individual or entity to which
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confidential and exempt from exposure under applicable            law.   If the reader
of this message is not the sole            authorised recipient you are hereby
notified that any            dissemination, distribution or copying of the
communication is            strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error
please            destroy immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against            virus
transmittal are taken by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE            (Pty)  Ltd (and associated companies)
we cannot accept any            responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
 
3 Harry van Wyk Street Norkem Park 
Kempton            Park
1619
Tel:+27 11 9764314
Cell:+27 82 557 8480
www.ibogaineafricanrenaisssance.com
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: simon loxton 
To: The Ibogaine List 
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008              5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: The              Evolution of Addiction Treatment

 
I have included boosters into my program; so to speak.
Its              an attempt to set some incentive to gather long term information and              also to avoid relapse when the signs start appearing. 
 


-----              Original Message ----
From: Matthew Zielinski <masterhermesbathory at gmail.com>
To: The              Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 22              July, 2008 1:12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: The Evolution              of Addiction Treatment


Hey Si
 
Yes exactly some kind of a long term maintainace with small              regual boosters would be very beneficial.  Why not incorporate              it into the protocol?  since the abstianance rate is so low              with the one dose why not begein to change it eh?  I understand              its not evreyones cup of tea but then how badly do you want              change.  I m sick and tired of the way iboga tastes and the              whole ritual to take just one t'spoon is a long and disgusting one              but i know what it does so i do it even though deep down i hate              taking it  ;-))
 
Take care
Matt

 
On 7/21/08, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: 
Hey Matt;

Thats a very important point you have                made.

Personally I struggle getting long term feedback from                patients. There is a lot of information before; during and just                after the experience but not nearly as much six months to a year                later. I try to stress the importance of just keeping in contact                so that when whatever the usual triggers start presenting                themselves they can be dealt with; easily if caught in                time.

The other problem I have experienced with people who                dont stay in touch and continue with some form of after care; is                that they only respond when things are too late or there has                already been a lapse. In these situations if they continue to go                it alone its common to think the ibogaine has not worked (But                thats a whole topic on its own)

So I would stress the                importance of keeping in touch. Obviously it would be easier to                have a six month program or some thing like that but thats not                everyones cup of tea or even do'able in most cases.

Keep                well Matt.

Si'


 


-----                Original Message ----
From: Matthew Zielinski <masterhermesbathory at gmail.com>
To: The                Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent:                Monday, 21 July, 2008 12:17:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw:                The Evolution of Addiction Treatment

 
I think its only natural that people who had a positive,                enlightening first ibogaine experience praise it as                a life saving gift.   Sudenly they are overwhelmed with happines and joy without                resorting to using anything to get there so that is a big                deal.
 
That is just a fact.  And it is                an amazing fact!  
 
If and when they relapse they do it                on their own accord. They have a choice to use or not to                use.  That doesnt diminish the fact that ibogaine helped them                tremendously in those first weeks.  
 
I think the whole ibogaine program                should be revised a bit.  I think more emphasis should be                placed on boosters and not solely on the first flood dose.                 Only looking at my self here but without the booster doses I think                I might have slipped again.  Now with  regualar                boosters(even though I only had 2) I have better control over                my behaviour and the way I react to                trigers/cravings/situations.  
 
Ibogaine is an amazing tool                to detox with since it elimenates most of the wd's                 but as far as abstianance rate its not that affective.                 Booster doses should be implemented as a part of the ibogaine                program.  Regular boosters should be advocated as the means                to help acheaive that sobriety.  Since I'm only speaking from                personal experience and only a short time of sobriety its hard to                establish if thats true but speaking with few people from the list                it does seem to be the case.  
 
Happy Sunday!
Matt
 
 
 
 
 
On 7/20/08, DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net> wrote:
depends on what label you apply to                  yourself by your actions, a "party person" having a good                  time after work is done, and keeping a responsible life                  situation
where you pay your bills, and you                  care about others is one case...
 
or one can label themself an                  "addict" where your fun is now causing you to not be                  responsible, and you dont care about anyone, even                  yourself,
and so on.
 
the drug being used                  properly or abused - is only a small part of the                  personality defects, or virtues being addressed (or                  ignored).
 
but just so fun-loving people know                  that they may use drugs without being "an addiction" problem                  person with deep issues. that is not addressed by                  NA,
or so I have heard.
 
imo.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donzo
"Love                  converts hearts, and gives                  peace."
__________________________________________________
 
-----                    Original Message ----- 
From: Matt Shriver 
To: The Ibogaine List 
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: The Evolution of Addiction Treatment

 I had similar reactions to Douglas.                     I had thought about responding to this before but never got                    around to it.  I think the author over-stresses the                    "miracle cure" angle to ibogaine which I don't think is                    entirely helpful.  I will be the first to admit that                    there is more than just a grain of truth to that perspective                    but it is not the whole story.  From what I have seen on                    this list and in myself, those who get the amazing, ecstatic,                    miraculously delivered from the throes of addiction                    experience, those are the ones most likely to write something                    like this, but if they do not follow it up with any additional                    effort, then more often then not they wind up using                    again.  And that pattern is I think not helpful for                   
 ibogaine.  The grain of truth is in the fact that people                    actually do have these experiences, I have myself.  But                    the whole truth is that if nothing else changes, then in the                    long run, nothing at all changes and they wind up right back                    where they started.

NA is one way that many people find                    freedom from drug addiction but it is not the only way. I                    think that people who are overly judgmental of it are really                    dealing with their own internal issues that they are                    projecting onto NA.  I will be the last to claim that NA                    is without it's problems.  But it's more or less like say                    for instance the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,                    the Mormons.  How many people go around with a resentment                    against the Mormons, probably not a lot.  But just as                    with NA the tendency is to view the whole organization based                    on the interactions you have with any of it's members.                     And these people will ring your doorbell and interrupt                    whatever it is you are doing to try and sell you literature            
        about a religion you are probably not even interested                    in.  Some of them are pushy.  Some of them are                    totally cool.  In my experience they are all very polite                    (other than sometimes being overly persistent or just                    generally bothersome like when different ones come by 3 days                    apart, c'mon I already told the last guys I wasn't                    interested).  But my point is that if you go away from                    these interactions with a resentment about the the Mormons in                    general than that is really about you, not the Mormons.                     And it seems like there are a lot of addicts running around                    with 12-step resentment.  If it's not for you then cool,                    don't go.  But if you go around dissing on it you may                    well be denying someone else access to the very method that    
                would work best for them to gain freedom from drug                    addiction.  Hundreds of thousands have found help in NA                    and if you include AA then you can change that number to                    millions.

But just to get back to Douglas' point,                    addiction doesn't happen in a vacuum.  There are                    associated behaviors, thought patterns, habits, and tendencies                    that all support continuing in that lifestyle.  These                    things must be dealt with and these things are usually already                    present prior to drug addiction so simply returning to the                    pre-drug taking life is not exactly realistic.  If all                    you remove is the physical and psychological addiction to a                    specific substance you have essentially only treated the                    manifestations of the issue, not the actual issue                    itself.  However you want to talk about addiction and in                    whatever terms, most people would agree that it is more than                    simply the repeated use of a substance.  That is the most               
     obvious outward manifestation but many personality traits and                    behaviors seemingly unrelated to the drug use are also shared                    among addicts to say nothing of people who manifest addictive                    behaviors around activities like gambling that have nothing at                    all to do with consuming mind altering substances.                     Whatever it is that leads people into a situation where they                    become dependent on the repeated use of a drug, simply                    removing the drug from the over-all picture does not actually                    impact on that thing.

Matt

Douglas Fraser wrote: 
hrm....  I had a khat plant while I was living in Vancouver.  Never really 
used it b/c it was of the weak variety, but it's a nice plant....   and of 
course, I was not refining the chemical to excess a la coca and cocaine.... 





   but speed freaks are .. freaks and that sort of applies to our 
overcaffeinated Western culture.   And of course, it's always easier to 
blame the chemicals than one's life and how one's living it and not 





acknowledging one's problems

To be honest, what bugs me about this story is that the author does not 
ever seem to acknowledge the chemicals were just tools for him to escape 
his issues - it's like he never had any issues and then one day, poof! 





he's an addict.   maybe it's just my projections... and the way he writes. 
    Then he imparts such power to ibogaine.. or seems to.  This is a subtle 
point, but it's a crucial one.  Ibogaine can be
 considered
 to have 
something of a "cult" surrounding it, much like ayahuasca does, and if we 
(society) can deal with those projections in an honest manner, then we 
won't be faced with the trouble that acid and MDMA had to deal with (the 





hysteria, the bans, etc).     then again, I'm an idealist....

doug

Kevin Walker wrote:

To The List.

A patient forward this attachment and asked me please to publish it on 
Mindvox for him!

Regards
Kevin
THE EVOLUTION OF ADDICTION TREATMENT- By Bareman                   12 





July 2008

CHAPTER 1

"Try some of this." smiled Dean, handing my wife and I a small piece of 
paper with some white powder in the centre.



"It's called cut or cat and is a chemical version of the plant ,cut, 





used to enhance energy and concentration,much like a herbal version of 
cocaine."



15 minutes later we were
 driving to our magnificent , fully paid for 
house, with our music studio, one of the finest and most magical in the 




country.



We were feeling motivated, on top of the world,energetic beyond belief 

and excited about the prospects of life.



That powder sure had a kick to it, a kick that we would later 
 be 
directed toward my manhood.



CHAPTER 2



Half an hour after arriving home and working passionately on a new song, 

we felt the need for a little more of the magic powder.







"Hey Dean, got any more cat?"



"Sure, I make the stuff,but it's rather expensive to produce so I sell 
it to my friends at 150 a gram."




"I"m coming back,give me 2."







I walked upstairs to our safe where we had about 100 00 rand in cash, 
and took a mere 300 for Dean.



See, I figured for 300 rand we were so prolific and energetic that we

could do 2 days work in one, so why not?







We had tried Ritalin before and cat was like it's big brother in so far 
as focus and energy was concerned.



Dean told me it was based on a naturally occurring herb, so what was the 





harm?



CHAPTER 3



We finished
 working in the early hours of the morning, sustaining our 
energies by topping up with another line every half hour or so,and let's 
just say making love was explosive to say the least. Bonus.








Now as for our sleep life, the birds were chirping,the sun was rising 
and we had no intentions of entertaining the notion of alpha/beta states 
as we had to get our daughter ready for school.




Lucky we still had some left which we hastily finished. Fantastic, it 




felt like we had just had a good ten hours of slumber and were ready for 
another exciting day.



CHAPTER 4



After
 taking C to school, I popped into Dean's place with some more cash 




from the safe.



"Give me 5 grams, I don't want to run out."



That day we went to our doctor complaining of insomnia. He obliged by 

giving us a script for sleeping tablets.







We were
 set.



CHAPTER 5



Three years later:



We had invested in a house in an exclusive suburb which we were letting 
out on the basis that the tenants rent would pay the mortgage.








Our tenants were moving out and we thought this the ideal opportunity to 
move in and start a drug free life as the novelty had worn off and we 
weren't feeling great anymore.



Dean had quit so we were getting from another supplier.








I will never forget the day 5 year old C walked into the studio and said 
"You know what,dad? Taking drugs is like taking a brand new house and 
the more drugs
 you take,the older and dirtier the house gets until it 




turns into a dirty old cottage..................that's why you and mom 
want to move to Dainfern."



She was sharp,real sharp.




CHAPTER 6



Eight years after our first
 encounter:



Here I sit, a divorced,lonely,broken,drug dependent 40 year old man.



All my accumulated wealth gone due to irrational investment,giving half 

of it away and my 2 designer drugs of choice,Gamma Hydroxy Buturate and 




Meth-cathanone (cat)consuming the rest.



No house,no studio,no friends,no family,no clients only the 
uncomfortable cravings.




I had been to a 12 step conventional rehab a few years earlier and had 




lasted 5 days.



Then my ex told me about Ibogaine, a naturally occurring hallucinogenic 
plant derivative used by the Ubuntu tribe during ceremonials,which was 

accidently found to
 stop cravings for heroin and other substances 




without withdrawals.



See, a conventional 6 week rehab program teaches you how to deal with 
the cravings, whereas Ibogaine nullifies the cravings without the much 

feared
 withdrawals.



Don't get me wrong,Ibogaine is a tough route to take and the first 4 
days were filled with hallucinations and ataxia (partial loss of control 
of the limbs.), but worth every second.








Here is part of an email I sent my friend pertaining to one 
hallucination I experienced:





The process was uncomfortable and time passed slowly as the plant worked 
its way through my brain "reformatting" my hard drive.








It is a hallucinogenic and makes you very aware on an introspective as 
well as a spiritual level.



Day one and I started hearing ancient chanting which grew louder at 
night,especially before sleep where my




 adventures would begin.



I heard a digeridoo type buzzing sound surrounding me and,as I dozed 
off,was awoken by the buzzing of motorbikes and found myself in a skanky 
hotel/nightclub surrounded by a massive
 amount of helmets belonging to a 

deadly  gang.



They performed a ritual type ceremony in which they selected the new 
teenage leader based on size and strength,and then out of the back of 
the club in walks..........C, my 11 year old daughter.








She partakes in the ceremony and afterwards disappears.



I turn around and to my horror and disbelief,there she 
is........performing fellatio on the new leader.



The leader walks up to me afterwards to shake my hand on raising such a 





skilled daughter and feelings of rage,hoplessness and fear of being the 
lowest of the low overwhelm me.



I tell C  in a calm,amicable way that her beauty and femina
 are the most 
powerful weapons she has in a man's world which she should never give away.







"I didn't" she replied,pulling out R200 from her pocket.



Suddenly,I am awake,crying and
 shivering with the sickest sensation only 

described as a dad's worst nightmare.



"Give up the narcotics or face the consequences" was the clearest,most 
frightening message of the Ibogaine.







These type of hallucinations were experienced every night for the fist 4 

nights which I can recall in detail, and then a euphoria was experienced.



That was 3 weeks ago and I have absolutely no inclination to even 




entertain the thoughts of GHB or white powder.




I am finally at peace and motivated beyond reason to become a success 
story,not a statistic.



Strange thing is I am attracting such positive energy now and feel more 




confident and creative, whilst being more
 focussed and grounded than 
ever before.



CHAPTER 7



In conclusion,Ibogaine definitely seems like the standard for treating 
addiction over and above a very dated
 12 step regime.




We are constantly evolving, and with evolution comes change.



Why go through a 6 week minimum rehabilitation program and still feel 
the fear and uncertainty of a relapse when the alternative,Ibogaine, 





offers a solution to constant cravings in a week with very little chance 
of relapse as the body is brought to a state of homeostasis relatively 
quickly, avoiding nasty withdrawal symptoms?



This is definitely a treatment for the individual who is sick  and tired 





of feeling sick and tired and really wants to return to sobriety without 
having to be taught how to deal with his/her addictive tendencies in a 
condescending and uncomfortable manner of what I consider to be a sorely





outdated 12 step program.



Within 2-3 weeks of the Ibogaine treatment,my energy levels, motivation, 
creativity and general well being had returned to a state of
 normality 
and my world had changed from grey to a colourful appreciation with no 

desire to return to the dark, uncomfortable place I had been in just a 
few weeks earlier.





Beat that 12 step.






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