[Ibogaine] some stuff about getting charged with wandering and other things about sara and dana I guess, which'll mean nothing to the drug way folk probably.

Preston Peet prestonpeet at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 21 17:23:31 EDT 2008


"leaders in our 'movement'" [uhhhh, I mean, in our CULT, #9 IS A compound and the UN is on its way. SO where does that Sara fit in? Oh yeah, she's in enlightened Europe, where they really do seem to have it easier than in the US in many ways.
Odd how perspectives can be so different.
Love that stuff.
Back to whatever it was I was just doing. Oh yeah, remembering being put in the back of an unmarked car for the charge of "wandering" appsrently serious enough to get me into the car but not serious enough to be cuffed or told to put my fag out, leading me to suddenly suspect that playing the contrite citizen who admits he does't have any rights and why would that even cross my mind anyway, would be the fastest way out of this. They ended up not only letting me go, but letting me enter a 24 hour grocery to buy soda, which is what I'd been seeking, a place open where I could buy myself and my roomie some soda.
Ahhhh, this IS the best damned country in the world, and I feel sooooo safe.
"Hey pal, stay away from the darkie rez and you'll be ok. IF we catch you even looking towards that end of your street, at the blacks we've got the darkies 'living' in, we're gonna take you straight to jail.:
Weird night, I must say.



----- Original Message ----
From: Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 7:49:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dana and Sara

          It's been pretty quiet around here as of late about this
issue. Since you brought it up again Vector, I would like to say one
more thing, and then bow out.

      Nobody wants to have to choose one person or the other, nobody
that I know of anyway. I would think that these two leaders in our
movement couild come to some kind of understanding without shredding
the reputation of the other.

      Spread the Love

            Randy

On 7/12/08, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Simon and Broc, both of you have shown you are too stoned to be reading
> anything right now, go to dana beal's corner ;)
>
> Dana and Sara would the two of you please somehow deal with each other? Sara
> I think you're an amazing healer and have been reading your words for alot
> of my life, I do think alot of what you say may be true, dana throws away a
> lot of money. I also truly think that sending people private email off list
> about Dana isn't the way to resolve it. I hear you, I'm listening but I
> don't think that all of mindvox is some conspiricy that protects dana and
> makes the world see everything his way. I do think Dana and Patrick are
> friends and all, I do think Dana has helped a lot of people here, so have
> you. I really wish you'd both talk to each other, Please?
>
> .:vector:.
> --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four pillars" drug policy
>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 3:53 AM
>> I was wondering the same thing...... you posted a quote as a
>> reply to
>> a cool ibogaine article, that has nothing to do with the
>> article. wtf
>> am i missing?
>>
>> -broc
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 3:33 AM, simon loxton
>> <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Hello;
>> >
>> > Where was that excerpt from?
>> > That would be appreciated; really!.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Si'
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
>> > To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> > Sent: Saturday, 12 July, 2008 3:26:35 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four
>> pillars" drug policy
>> >
>> >>>Vancouver's "four pillars" drug
>> policy already includes safe injection
>> >>>sites and prescription heroin for harm
>> reduction. Ibogaine programs
>> >
>> > - what ? how to get RX for horsey-pung in Vancouver ?
>> >
>> > wow
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Donzo
>> > "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Vector Vector"
>> <vector620022002 at yahoo.com>
>> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:43 PM
>> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga Therapy House
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://thismagazine.ca/issues/2008/07/lastrefuge.php
>> >>
>> >> .:vector:.
>> >>
>> >> THE ADDICT'S LAST REFUGE?
>> >>
>> >> B.C.'s Iboga Therapy House is following in a
>> decades-old tradition of
>> >> underground rehab—administering a drug called
>> ibogaine, which has the
>> >> reported side effect of curbing addiction. But can
>> these activists take
>> >> their experiment mainstream?
>> >>
>> >> BY PETER TUPPER
>> >> PHOTOGRAPHY BY REUTERS: ANDY CLARK
>> >>
>> >> The drug rehabilitation facility is an ordinary
>> split-level house in a
>> >> sleepy residential neighbourhood in a small town
>> on B.C.'s Sunshine Coast.
>> >> Inside, the many bookshelves contain everything
>> from psychopharmacology
>> >> textbooks to psychedelic graphic novels. Visitors
>> are welcomed by a small,
>> >> dark-haired woman named Sandra Karpetas. Though
>> she has no formal training
>> >> in medicine, she speaks knowledgeably about
>> neurochemistry.
>> >>
>> >> The people who come here need help. They're
>> looking for a substance called
>> >> ibogaine, a psychotropic drug that is reported to
>> be an addiction
>> >> interrupter. Iboga Therapy House is often the last
>> hope of people wishing
>> >> to free themselves from addiction to heroin,
>> cocaine, prescription
>> >> painkillers or other substances. A potentially
>> powerful tool in the
>> >> treatment of addiction, ibogaine is unregulated in
>> Canada. In the U.S. it
>> >> is a Schedule I controlled substance, alongside
>> heroin, cannabis and LSD.
>> >>
>> >> For decades, an underground network has
>> administered it to addicts in need
>> >> worldwide. But ibogaine's profound effect on
>> the recipient's mind and
>> >> body, which is what makes it an effective
>> treatment, may also be its
>> >> biggest obstacle to acceptance as a medicine. Now,
>> Iboga Therapy House is
>> >> where ibogaine may be recognized as a legitimate
>> medical treatment.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The original Iboga House was founded in 2002 by
>> Marc Emery, B.C.'s
>> >> infamous marijuana activist and seed merchant.
>> Financed by his marijuana
>> >> seed sales, Emery helped deliver ibogaine for free
>> to addicts in the
>> >> Sunshine Coast, personally administering it to
>> close to 70 people. Two
>> >> years later, when financial and legal troubles
>> forced Emery to close the
>> >> house, he encouraged Karpetas, a comrade in the
>> project, to continue the
>> >> work. In 2005, she registered the house as a
>> non-profit, and reopened it
>> >> the following year at a rented property about an
>> hour and a half from
>> >> Vancouver.
>> >>
>> >> The location was chosen to be peaceful and
>> isolated, and kept secret for
>> >> the confidentiality of both clients and staff.
>> Karpetas professionalized
>> >> Emery's operation, setting up protocols for
>> screening patients for mental
>> >> and physical problems at Iboga Therapy House, to
>> reduce potential danger
>> >> and prevent fatalities. Iboga is now a non-profit
>> company, with 10 people
>> >> on call, including a registered nurse, two EMTs,
>> several facilitators, two
>> >> substance counsellors and one follow-up
>> coordinator. There is also an MD
>> >> who acts as a consultant. Karpetas, now
>> Iboga's program director, is one
>> >> of two full-time employees. So far, 59 people have
>> undergone treatment at
>> >> Iboga House.
>> >>
>> >> The not-for-profit, which is no longer free—the
>> five- to seven-day course
>> >> of treatment costs close to $5,000—can generally
>> accept only those who can
>> >> afford it. "There are people in every class
>> who use substances and it's
>> >> not just people who live on the street who become
>> dependent, necessarily,"
>> >> says the 32-year-old Karpetas, though the clinic
>> does sometimes donate
>> >> services to addicts in need. Ibogaine, like other
>> detoxification methods,
>> >> is not enough on its own to get people off the
>> streets, and works best on
>> >> people with support systems in place.
>> >>
>> >> People seek out Iboga House after learning of it
>> through word of mouth or
>> >> on the internet. The candidates for treatment are
>> screened for a variety
>> >> of medical conditions, including psychiatric
>> problems, epilepsy, heart
>> >> problems and HIV, and must submit a general
>> medical evaluation from a
>> >> doctor, along with details on their social support
>> network and their plans
>> >> for recovery.
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas is primarily self-educated, but has a
>> background doing
>> >> harm-reduction counselling with addicts. "I
>> have some of the best mentors
>> >> in the world," she says. "I didn't
>> go to university. But my self-education
>> >> has included a lot of workshops, a lot of
>> conferences, reading books,
>> >> talking to people, particularly on the topics of
>> harm reduction,
>> >> psychotherapy, drug education and facilitation.
>> There really is no
>> >> training program for what I do."
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas first heard of ibogaine in the late
>> 1990s, through Jonathan Ott's
>> >> book Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic Drugs, Their Plant
>> Sources and History. At
>> >> the time, she found herself moving in two
>> different worlds; in one, she
>> >> saw people using psychoactive substances for
>> therapeutic and
>> >> self-explorative purposes; in another, she saw
>> people inflicting great
>> >> harm on themselves through drug abuse. Ibogaine
>> seemed to bridge the two
>> >> worlds, a substance that could fight addiction by
>> awakening the mind.
>> >> Despite her interest, Karpetas didn't know
>> there were people distributing
>> >> ibogaine in B.C.
>> >>
>> >> She planned a trip to West Africa to test ibogaine
>> out, but instead had a
>> >> chance encounter with a colleague who told her
>> about Emery's project. She
>> >> immediately contacted him, and toured the facility
>> the following day. "I
>> >> could see that there was some really good
>> potential for philanthropic
>> >> work," she says, "but I could also see
>> that, unless they instituted a
>> >> number of changes to the way they did things, that
>> it could also be
>> >> potentially dangerous." There have been
>> several known fatalities
>> >> associated with ibogaine, though not necessarily
>> caused by it. For
>> >> example, in 2005, a 48-year-old woman died in a
>> Mexican ibogaine clinic
>> >> from acute myocardial infarct and acute coronary
>> syndrome. In 2006, a
>> >> 38-year-old U.S. man died at an ibogaine clinic in
>> Tijuana from pulmonary
>> >> thrombosis. Karpetas says, "They seem to be
>> related to improper medical
>> >> screening, improper monitoring during the therapy,
>> and just a basic lack
>> >> of education on the part of the
>> >> individuals taking it."
>> >>
>> >> The present-day Iboga House provides a controlled
>> setting that minimizes
>> >> these risks. Clients go through a thorough medical
>> screening and wait 12
>> >> hours from the last dose of their drug. When they
>> arrive at the house,
>> >> clients are lead to its lower level, where one
>> room serves as an
>> >> altar-like space with elements of many different
>> religious traditions.
>> >>
>> >> The individual takes a small test dose of ibogaine
>> to ensure no adverse
>> >> reactions, then the full dose in capsules an hour
>> later. The drug causes a
>> >> temporary loss of co-ordination, but also
>> minimizes withdrawal symptoms,
>> >> which can typically include diarrhea, stomach
>> cramps, leg restlessness,
>> >> the inability to sleep, extreme agitation and
>> depression. "The symptoms of
>> >> withdrawal can be very much like the most intense
>> flu you've ever had. It
>> >> lasts for weeks and can be extremely
>> painful," says Karpetas. "None of
>> >> that occurs with ibogaine. I haven't seen
>> anything like [ibogaine]
>> >> anywhere, ever." The rehabilitating trip is
>> intense. Once dosed, the
>> >> patient experiences a dream-like state lasting
>> anywhere from 24 to 36
>> >> hours. An RN and an EMT watch the client
>> constantly during the first 16
>> >> hours, with a portable defibrillator kit, an
>> oxygen tank and a full
>> >> medical bag close at hand, and the local hospital
>> is five minutes away.
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas avoids calling ibogaine
>> "psychedelic," saying instead that it's
>> >> an oneirogen—a dreaminducing substance.
>> "It's like a prolonged waking
>> >> dream experience," she says. "It has a
>> totally different mode of action
>> >> than most of what are termed
>> "psychedelics."
>> >>
>> >> She also emphasizes that ibogaine is no miracle
>> cure. "People really have
>> >> to have a number of things set in place in their
>> life that are going to
>> >> assist them in recovery," she says.
>> "They should have factors such as
>> >> housing, social support, employment or
>> employability skills, or a career
>> >> of some sort, and long-term follow-up and
>> aftercare."
>> >>
>> >> Because of ibogaine's murky legal status,
>> there are few studies of its
>> >> effectiveness. Dr. Ken Alper, an assistant
>> professor of psychiatry and
>> >> neurology at New York University School of
>> Medicine, conducted lengthy
>> >> clinical trials of ibogaine detoxification in the
>> 1990s. In a study of 33
>> >> opioid users, 25 were found free of withdrawal
>> symptoms 24 hours after
>> >> ibogaine treatment, and they showed no
>> drug-seeking behaviour 72 hours
>> >> later. Testing on animals yielded similar results.
>> >>
>> >> Used in the initiation rituals of the Bwiti people
>> in Gabon and Cameroon,
>> >> ibogaine's addiction-treating properties were
>> discovered by a young
>> >> American man named Howard Lotsof in the early
>> 1960s. A drug user, Lotsof
>> >> took ibogaine, which is derived from the bark of a
>> West African bush, and
>> >> experienced a 36- hour trip full of Freudian
>> imagery. Lotsof noticed after
>> >> coming down that "for the first time in
>> months, I did not want or need to
>> >> go cop heroin. In fact, I viewed heroin as a drug
>> that emulated death; I
>> >> wanted life."
>> >>
>> >> He ordered more ibogaine, an uncontrolled chemical
>> at the time, and
>> >> administered it to an informal focus group. Out of
>> the 20 people he
>> >> tested, seven heroin users had no withdrawal
>> symptoms and five had no
>> >> desire to use heroin again during the six-month
>> monitoring period.
>> >> However, hippie culture had no use for ibogaine,
>> which was not a party
>> >> drug, and the U.S. government was criminalizing
>> psychedelic drugs.
>> >>
>> >> Lotsof continued his ibogaine research, despite
>> limited resources and a
>> >> 14-month prison term for conspiracy to sell LSD,
>> and succeeded in getting
>> >> a U.S. patent on the use of ibogaine in narcotic
>> dependency interruption
>> >> in 1985. However, drug companies were indifferent,
>> seeing no profit in
>> >> ibogaine, which is a natural product that
>> can't be patented, and is
>> >> administered in a single, large dose instead of
>> regular, ongoing doses,
>> >> like methadone.
>> >>
>> >> Meanwhile, knowledge of ibogaine's therapeutic
>> use spread by word of
>> >> mouth, and an underground detoxification movement
>> grew in many countries.
>> >> Professional, above-ground clinics in Europe,
>> Mexico and the Caribbean
>> >> provide it, and lay practitioners administer it to
>> addicts in their homes
>> >> or makeshift clinics.
>> >>
>> >> Iboga House is not the only above-ground ibogaine
>> clinic in the world, but
>> >> it is the first to contribute to the slowly
>> growing body of research on
>> >> the drug, in partnership with U.S.-based
>> Multidisciplinary Association for
>> >> Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a nonprofit research
>> organization studying the
>> >> application of psychedelics and marijuana. When
>> Rick Doblin, MAPS founder
>> >> and president, met Karpetas at a conference in
>> 2001, he had long been
>> >> interested in studying ibogaine. He couldn't
>> do so in the United States,
>> >> so jumped at the chance to work with Iboga House,
>> once that became an
>> >> option five years later. "[Karpetas] was
>> willing to be honest, to look at
>> >> the data of how well the treatment worked,"
>> Doblin says. "She welcomed the
>> >> research into the therapeutic context of the
>> clinic, and also the
>> >> spotlight that it would put on her methods."
>> >>
>> >> Since 2006, Iboga House and the MAPS study have
>> worked in parallel. The
>> >> clinic medically screens and treats clients, after
>> which MAPS phones them
>> >> once a month for a year to administer the standard
>> addiction severity
>> >> index interview recognized by the U.S. Food and
>> Drug Administration and
>> >> the National Institute on Drug Abuse, which tracks
>> many aspects of a
>> >> person's life, including drug use.
>> >>
>> >> Ibogaine must be compared with other forms of
>> medicated detoxification,
>> >> which include using general anesthesia in a
>> clinical setting to make the
>> >> patient unconscious through the withdrawal
>> symptoms.
>> >>
>> >> Other treatment programs have high rates of
>> dropouts. A 2004 American
>> >> study found that only 16.6 percent of methadone
>> users completed their
>> >> programs, and even detoxification programs only
>> had a completion rate of
>> >> 62.3. The remainder of participants drop out or
>> are discharged. Treatment
>> >> programs can also leave the patient dependent on
>> regular doses of drugs
>> >> such as methadone.
>> >>
>> >> In contrast to the more institutional programs,
>> Iboga House's philosophy
>> >> and goal is harm reduction, not abstinence. If,
>> after taking ibogaine,
>> >> people reduce their drug use or switch to less
>> dangerous drugs, that's
>> >> still viewed as an improvement. "If they do
>> happen to relapse and they
>> >> need support," says Karpetas "they can
>> call us or the follow-up
>> >> co-ordinator and say, 'Look, I'm feeling
>> like I'm going to relapse or I
>> >> have relapsed once or I had a one-time binge or
>> something.' We're there to
>> >> support them through that period to make sure they
>> essentially understand
>> >> that even if they relapse, they're not
>> complete failures, that they can
>> >> still work toward improving their life." She
>> adds, "Generally, we find
>> >> people who have not succeeded in religion-based or
>> 12-step-based programs
>> >> might have a better chance of succeeding in a
>> program like ours."
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas's goal is that, once demonstrated
>> effective, ibogaine be
>> >> recognized under Canada's Natural Health
>> Products Regulations, as a
>> >> product to be used in a specific protocol in a
>> clinical setting, with
>> >> Iboga House as the model and the results of the
>> MAPS study as evidence.
>> >> "We would like to get accredited in the
>> future," she says. "But that would
>> >> have to go hand-in-hand with demonstrating the
>> effectiveness of ibogaine,
>> >> and trying to get it regulated through the Natural
>> Health Products
>> >> program." A Health Canada official stated in
>> an email that no ibogaine
>> >> containing product has yet been licensed, and it
>> is up to the manufacturer
>> >> to prove that their product is safe, effective and
>> high quality. Also, the
>> >> Vancouver Coastal Health Authority inspected the
>> house in April 2008 and
>> >> found that it didn't come under the Community
>> Care and Assisted Living Act
>> >> because it didn't have the facilities to treat
>> three or more people.
>> >> Karpetas says that her
>> >> house meets all the requirements of the act
>> otherwise.
>> >>
>> >> Ibogaine's therapeutic use has grown in the
>> grey area outside medical and
>> >> scientific authority because of the need for
>> better addiction treatment
>> >> than methadone dependency or anesthetic detox.
>> Underground treatment
>> >> providers continue to operate in the U.S., where
>> ibogaine is highly
>> >> illegal, because they feel people need it enough
>> to take risks. One
>> >> American provider told Karpetas that, if anything
>> went wrong for his
>> >> clients, his emergency procedure was, "I call
>> emergency services and I
>> >> jet."
>> >>
>> >> Regardless of whether legal and medical
>> authorities legitimize ibogaine,
>> >> people will continue using it, just as people keep
>> using drugs.
>> >> Vancouver's
>> >> "four pillars" drug policy already
>> includes safe injection sites and
>> >> prescription heroin for harm reduction. Ibogaine
>> programs like Iboga House
>> >> could be part of the treatment pillar, recognizing
>> that in addiction the
>> >> mind, as well as the body, needs to be healed.
>> >>
>> >> Paula, a 42-year-old woman who had used cocaine
>> intermittently since age
>> >> 19 and recently graduated to smoking crack, says
>> that 12-step programs
>> >> didn't work for her because she was constantly
>> being reminded she was an
>> >> addict. She went through the ibogaine treatment in
>> January 2008. Five
>> >> weeks after her treatment, she says she feels no
>> cravings, has improved
>> >> her health, reconnected with her daughter and is
>> in the process of getting
>> >> her business back. "I know what it's been
>> like going through a treatment
>> >> centre for seven months, and it's not like
>> this," she says. "I don't taste
>> >> cocaine, smell it, want it, crave it, dream it.
>> Nothing at all. I feel
>> >> like I've got a second chance at life, where
>> before I was just going day
>> >> by day, step by step. I don't feel that with
>> this. It's gone."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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