[Ibogaine] IBOGAINE DOOM & GLOOM!

Charles Rossouw charles.rossouw at gmail.com
Wed Jul 16 13:04:26 EDT 2008


I think Dana phoned and told me a week or two ago that SA is the most
prolific ibogaine destination (for lack of a more suitable word) - there are
more providers here than in any other country in the world nowadays.  Not to
feel too flattered - this is definitely helped on by unfavorable legislation
in countries like the US.  So somehow or another, although often
controversial and with lots of emotion, word is getting around on this side
of the planet.

Regards

Charles

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Randy Faulconer <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
wrote:

>       I personally think it is great to see you guys trying to work
> together on this. The "South African model of treatment providers" (my
> word for it) looks to be the best way to go about it. Out in the open,
> and willing to work together for the benefit of the patients. Way
> freakin' cool guys.
>
>          Peace Love and Solidarity
>              Randy
>          BiscuitBoy Blues
>
> On 7/16/08, Kevin Walker <kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com> wrote:
> > Simon,
> >
> > The thing is we are a mere handful of service providers in this country,
> > will it bring any weight to the boardroom? Secondly we could very well
> end
> > up like the guys in the US and elsewhere else in the world were everyone
> is
> > trying to out do and out play the other, we need a united committee to
> > brainstorm over a weekend or number of days at a mutual venue, where the
> > protocols and conditions of treatment, can be drafted and from that a
> > working document created. Furthermore a lawyer to over see the legal
> aspects
> > and have the said documents, registered and placed on record with the
> > respective bodies. There are at least four service providers, that are
> > active in South Africa namely:-
> >
> >   1.. Minds alive (Natal) They are a registered facility but not
> registered
> > to treat with Ibogaine.
> >   2.. Ibogaine SA (Non Registered) NHP
> >   3.. Ibogaine Cape Town (Non Registered) Biwiti
> >   4.. Ibogaine Africa (Non Registered) NHP
> >   5.. Ibogaine African Renaissance (Non Registered) NHP
>  > There are two other low key providers as well:-  Peter Ferreira (Non
> > Registered)
> >                                                                     And a
> > woman by the name of Clair (Non Registered)
> >
> > I am of the understanding, it is irrespective of what practice you are
> > operating under i.e. Biwiti Sacrament or Clinic model, the fact is
> neither
> > model has been recognised first of all, and secondly the premises and
> > program from which the sacrament or model is practiced both need to
> conform
> > to the act! Prevention and Treatment of Drug Dependency Act, No 20 of
> 1992
> >
> > The other alternative is do as I am doing now spend some money, and just
> > comply. Is it really such an issue the government has better things to do
> > with the so called registered clinic at the moment, the other problem is
> > that there are not enough establishment, to cater for the drug problem
> > loaming in our country.
> >
> > But lets see maybe some of the other providers have a little input as it
> > impacts everyone at the end of the day!
> >
> > I have attached the document from the Social Development that are
> required.
> >
> > Kevin.
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________
> >
> > NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
> >
> > Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
> > This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which
> > it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
> > confidential and exempt from exposure under applicable law.   If the
> reader
> > of this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the
> > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error
> > please destroy immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus
> > transmittal are taken by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd (and
> > associated companies) we
> > cannot accept any responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
> > 12 Floria St
> > Edleen
> > Kempton Park
> > 1619
> > Tel:+27 11 976-4314
> > Cell:+27 82 557 8480
> > www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> > e-mail: kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: simon loxton
> >   To: The Ibogaine List
> >   Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:50 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] IBOGAINE DOOM & GLOOM!
> >
> >
> >   Thanks  Kevin.
> >
> >   This was an issue I mentioned some time ago and also added that I was
> told
> > by the medicines control board "They were aware of things but were
> Turning a
> > blind eye until it was formally brought to their attention"
> >
> >   This is also a reason for my moving to a more traditional approach as
> the
> > medical acceptance of ibogaine is a long road; but as a spiritual
> sacrament
> > there is nothing that they have jurisdiction over, its another
> department.
> > The fact that you are also using an extract can just be a matter of fact
> not
> > the focus.
> >
> >   I would however support any alliance or association by which we can set
> a
> > standard for screening and patient safety. This will ensure that there is
> a
> > certified body and process for administration which is strictly adhered
> to.
> > Rather present them ( The authorities) with something than them coming to
> > you with things to comply to. let me know your thoughts and lets hope we
> can
> > get the other treatment centers involved in setting a standard of
> practice.
> > This will also hopefully help do make the distinction between valid
> clinics
> > and providers and charlatans.
> >
> >
> >   Take care
> >
> >   Simon
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message ----
> >   From: Kevin Walker <kevin at ibogainesa.co.za>
> >   To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >   Sent: Wednesday, 16 July, 2008 11:35:56 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] IBOGAINE DOOM & GLOOM!
> >
> >   
> >   Hi Simon,
> >
> >   As you have mentioned a protocol needs to be set up, and Howard's
> > information certainly will be important and useful however this will also
> > need to be edited and altered to meet with the requirements of the
> > authorities locally, if one gets the opportunity of getting that far!
> >
> >   As the old story goes, they always have the best system in
> > place.....(Joke) and are not willing to enter into anything new or listen
> to
> > something else or more worthwhile. (Just like the 12 step program being
> > around for years and never reviewed)
> >   The issues however go beyond this, in terms of treatment and patient
> > requirements, every facility will also need to be run in accordance to
> other
> > departments, i.e. health, fire and social activities and based on the
> model
> > of a small medical clinic / or public service / institution. Otherwise
> your
> > doors will be closed and you will no longer be able to operate!
> >
> >   The problem is whether we have a protocol in place or not, Ibogaine
> would
> > need to be accepted as a form of medication as apposed to a natural herb.
> > Once any form of substance (medication) is given to a patient it becomes
> or
> > is looked upon as a medication and therefore falls under the medical
> > authorities.
> >
> >   The act clearly states that if you are in the business of drug
> treatment
> > or treatment in general of patients, you facility needs to be registered
> !!
> >
> >   Kevin.
> >
> >
> >   _____________________________________________
> >
> >   NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
> >
> >   Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
> >   This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to
> which
> >   it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
> >   confidential and exempt from exposure under applicable law.   If the
> > reader
> >   of this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby
> >   notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the
> >   communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in
> error
> >   please destroy immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus
> >   transmittal are taken by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd (and
> > associated companies) we
> >   cannot accept any responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
> >   12 Floria St
> >   Edleen
> >   Kempton Park
> >   1619
> >   Tel:+27 11 976-4314
> >   Cell:+27 82 557 8480
> >   www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> >   e-mail: kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     From: simon loxton
> >     To: The Ibogaine List
> >     Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:53 AM
> >     Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] IBOGAINE DOOM & GLOOM!
> >
> >
> >     Yea...shit! this is what I was warned about from the MEC so there has
> > been a person make some formal action for them to respond to. I was
> informed
> > last year that they were aware of the situation with ibogaine but were
> > turning a blind eye to it; they would only investigate if there was a
> > complaint or formal request; they know they have more to deal with than
> > ibogaine clinics which keep to a standard of practice.
> >     This brings me to the possibility that the current working clinics
> > accept Howard guide to patient screening;treatment and after care as a
> > standard of practice so we can start off on the right foot with safety
> > protocol.
> >
> >     I will give you a call kevin. I know I have mentioned this but maybe
> it
> > is some thing to also exclude people who do not comply with that standard
> of
> > practice. There is going to have to be some control on ibogaine
> > administration and I would rather be part of or suggest the way to go
> than
> > conform to government regulations that know nothing of ibogaine.
> >
> >     All the best
> >
> >     Si'
> >
> >
> >     ----- Original Message ----
> >     From: Kevin Walker <kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com>
> >     To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> >     Sent: Wednesday, 16 July, 2008 10:14:56 AM
> >     Subject: [Ibogaine] IBOGAINE DOOM & GLOOM!
> >
> >
> >     Doom and gloom may hit the ibogaine fraternity in South Africa. There
> > are a number of Ibogaine providers and clinic's in South Africa now, and
> it
> > seems as if the government authorities,  the "Social Development" sector,
> > have either being doing their home work, or have been tipped off by some
> > scrupulous and jealous individual to now investigate the said operations,
> > where drug treatment and wellness  are offered to the local and
> > international markets.
> >
> >     They currently claim that each and every facility offering treatment,
> > associated to drug addiction and wellness, all need to conform to the
> > Prevention and Treatment of Drug Dependency Act, No 20 of 1992,and that
> > registration is required irrespective of the number of patients treated
> and
> > or taken in by the provider or caregiver. Ibogaine SA and Ibogaine
> African
> > Renaissance were the first to be investigated, with the others to follow
> > shortly. This comes as a huge surprise to all the non-registered clinics,
> as
> > the registered clinics in South Africa currently offer a dismal success
> rate
> > of only 2% (if you could call it success) where the Ibogaine facilities
> are
> > offering between 75 to 80% on drugs like Heroin and Cocaine
> >
> >     While registration maybe necessary, to protect the interest of the
> > patient / patients and to conform to the government standards this will
> come
> > at a huge cost to these facilities, as the premises need to be configured
> to
> > meet with the guidelines issued by the respective authorities. Further to
> > this there maybe a ripple effect into other government sectors as well,
> i.e.
> > the MCC  (medicine control council) with regard to the use of Ibogaine in
> > South Africa all together.
> >
> >     With the above in mind, Ibogaine SA and Ibogaine African Renaissance
> > have therefore, decided to conform to the prescribed, and hope to achieve
> > registration status shortly. The management of the aforementioned, also
> view
> > the registration as being possibly an advantage to the facility and
> patients
> > a like, as medical aid patients will have the opportunity of now using
> their
> > scheme and not have to fork out the costs themselves.
> >
> >     So lets all hold thumbs for the continued use and development of
> > Ibogaine in South Africa.
> >
> >     Lets fight addiction together !!!
> >
> >     Regards to All
> >     Kevin.
> >     www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> >     kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> >     _____________________________________________
> >
> >     NHP / Dr Kevin Walker (Reg No: 6206429)
> >
> >     Disclaimer and Confidentiality Note:
> >     This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to
> > which
> >     it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
> >     confidential and exempt from exposure under applicable law.   If the
> > reader
> >     of this message is not the sole authorised recipient you are hereby
> >     notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the
> >     communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in
> error
> >     please destroy immediately. Whilst suitable precautions against virus
> >     transmittal are taken by IBOGAINE AFRICAN RENAISSANCE (Pty)  Ltd (and
> > associated companies) we
> >     cannot accept any responsibility for viruses or their consequences.
> >     12 Floria St
> >     Edleen
> >     Kempton Park
> >     1619
> >     Tel:+27 11 976-4314
> >     Cell:+27 82 557 8480
> >     www.ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> >     e-mail: kevin at ibogaineafricanrenaissance.com
> >
> >
> >
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