[Ibogaine] Dana and Sara

Charles Rossouw charles.rossouw at gmail.com
Sun Jul 13 02:31:59 EDT 2008


Or a peace-bong, with aircraft quality hydrolic pressure hoses.

Hehe

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 9:44 PM, <j0n at just-say-know.org> wrote:

> obviously, the only solution is a STEEL CAGE MATCH.
>
> >           It's been pretty quiet around here as of late about this
> > issue. Since you brought it up again Vector, I would like to say one
> > more thing, and then bow out.
> >
> >       Nobody wants to have to choose one person or the other, nobody
> > that I know of anyway. I would think that these two leaders in our
> > movement couild come to some kind of understanding without shredding
> > the reputation of the other.
> >
> >        Spread the Love
> >
> >              Randy
> >
> > On 7/12/08, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Simon and Broc, both of you have shown you are too stoned to be reading
> >> anything right now, go to dana beal's corner ;)
> >>
> >> Dana and Sara would the two of you please somehow deal with each other?
> >> Sara
> >> I think you're an amazing healer and have been reading your words for
> >> alot
> >> of my life, I do think alot of what you say may be true, dana throws
> >> away a
> >> lot of money. I also truly think that sending people private email off
> >> list
> >> about Dana isn't the way to resolve it. I hear you, I'm listening but I
> >> don't think that all of mindvox is some conspiricy that protects dana
> >> and
> >> makes the world see everything his way. I do think Dana and Patrick are
> >> friends and all, I do think Dana has helped a lot of people here, so
> >> have
> >> you. I really wish you'd both talk to each other, Please?
> >>
> >> .:vector:.
> >> --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four pillars" drug policy
> >>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >>> Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 3:53 AM
> >>> I was wondering the same thing...... you posted a quote as a
> >>> reply to
> >>> a cool ibogaine article, that has nothing to do with the
> >>> article. wtf
> >>> am i missing?
> >>>
> >>> -broc
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 3:33 AM, simon loxton
> >>> <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> > Hello;
> >>> >
> >>> > Where was that excerpt from?
> >>> > That would be appreciated; really!.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks
> >>> >
> >>> > Si'
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message ----
> >>> > From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
> >>> > To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >>> > Sent: Saturday, 12 July, 2008 3:26:35 AM
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four
> >>> pillars" drug policy
> >>> >
> >>> >>>Vancouver's "four pillars" drug
> >>> policy already includes safe injection
> >>> >>>sites and prescription heroin for harm
> >>> reduction. Ibogaine programs
> >>> >
> >>> > - what ? how to get RX for horsey-pung in Vancouver ?
> >>> >
> >>> > wow
> >>> >
> >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > Donzo
> >>> > "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
> >>> > __________________________________________________
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: "Vector Vector"
> >>> <vector620022002 at yahoo.com>
> >>> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >>> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:43 PM
> >>> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga Therapy House
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> http://thismagazine.ca/issues/2008/07/lastrefuge.php
> >>> >>
> >>> >> .:vector:.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> THE ADDICT'S LAST REFUGE?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> B.C.'s Iboga Therapy House is following in a
> >>> decades-old tradition of
> >>> >> underground rehab—administering a drug called
> >>> ibogaine, which has the
> >>> >> reported side effect of curbing addiction. But can
> >>> these activists take
> >>> >> their experiment mainstream?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> BY PETER TUPPER
> >>> >> PHOTOGRAPHY BY REUTERS: ANDY CLARK
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The drug rehabilitation facility is an ordinary
> >>> split-level house in a
> >>> >> sleepy residential neighbourhood in a small town
> >>> on B.C.'s Sunshine Coast.
> >>> >> Inside, the many bookshelves contain everything
> >>> from psychopharmacology
> >>> >> textbooks to psychedelic graphic novels. Visitors
> >>> are welcomed by a small,
> >>> >> dark-haired woman named Sandra Karpetas. Though
> >>> she has no formal training
> >>> >> in medicine, she speaks knowledgeably about
> >>> neurochemistry.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The people who come here need help. They're
> >>> looking for a substance called
> >>> >> ibogaine, a psychotropic drug that is reported to
> >>> be an addiction
> >>> >> interrupter. Iboga Therapy House is often the last
> >>> hope of people wishing
> >>> >> to free themselves from addiction to heroin,
> >>> cocaine, prescription
> >>> >> painkillers or other substances. A potentially
> >>> powerful tool in the
> >>> >> treatment of addiction, ibogaine is unregulated in
> >>> Canada. In the U.S. it
> >>> >> is a Schedule I controlled substance, alongside
> >>> heroin, cannabis and LSD.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> For decades, an underground network has
> >>> administered it to addicts in need
> >>> >> worldwide. But ibogaine's profound effect on
> >>> the recipient's mind and
> >>> >> body, which is what makes it an effective
> >>> treatment, may also be its
> >>> >> biggest obstacle to acceptance as a medicine. Now,
> >>> Iboga Therapy House is
> >>> >> where ibogaine may be recognized as a legitimate
> >>> medical treatment.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The original Iboga House was founded in 2002 by
> >>> Marc Emery, B.C.'s
> >>> >> infamous marijuana activist and seed merchant.
> >>> Financed by his marijuana
> >>> >> seed sales, Emery helped deliver ibogaine for free
> >>> to addicts in the
> >>> >> Sunshine Coast, personally administering it to
> >>> close to 70 people. Two
> >>> >> years later, when financial and legal troubles
> >>> forced Emery to close the
> >>> >> house, he encouraged Karpetas, a comrade in the
> >>> project, to continue the
> >>> >> work. In 2005, she registered the house as a
> >>> non-profit, and reopened it
> >>> >> the following year at a rented property about an
> >>> hour and a half from
> >>> >> Vancouver.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The location was chosen to be peaceful and
> >>> isolated, and kept secret for
> >>> >> the confidentiality of both clients and staff.
> >>> Karpetas professionalized
> >>> >> Emery's operation, setting up protocols for
> >>> screening patients for mental
> >>> >> and physical problems at Iboga Therapy House, to
> >>> reduce potential danger
> >>> >> and prevent fatalities. Iboga is now a non-profit
> >>> company, with 10 people
> >>> >> on call, including a registered nurse, two EMTs,
> >>> several facilitators, two
> >>> >> substance counsellors and one follow-up
> >>> coordinator. There is also an MD
> >>> >> who acts as a consultant. Karpetas, now
> >>> Iboga's program director, is one
> >>> >> of two full-time employees. So far, 59 people have
> >>> undergone treatment at
> >>> >> Iboga House.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The not-for-profit, which is no longer free—the
> >>> five- to seven-day course
> >>> >> of treatment costs close to $5,000—can generally
> >>> accept only those who can
> >>> >> afford it. "There are people in every class
> >>> who use substances and it's
> >>> >> not just people who live on the street who become
> >>> dependent, necessarily,"
> >>> >> says the 32-year-old Karpetas, though the clinic
> >>> does sometimes donate
> >>> >> services to addicts in need. Ibogaine, like other
> >>> detoxification methods,
> >>> >> is not enough on its own to get people off the
> >>> streets, and works best on
> >>> >> people with support systems in place.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> People seek out Iboga House after learning of it
> >>> through word of mouth or
> >>> >> on the internet. The candidates for treatment are
> >>> screened for a variety
> >>> >> of medical conditions, including psychiatric
> >>> problems, epilepsy, heart
> >>> >> problems and HIV, and must submit a general
> >>> medical evaluation from a
> >>> >> doctor, along with details on their social support
> >>> network and their plans
> >>> >> for recovery.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Karpetas is primarily self-educated, but has a
> >>> background doing
> >>> >> harm-reduction counselling with addicts. "I
> >>> have some of the best mentors
> >>> >> in the world," she says. "I didn't
> >>> go to university. But my self-education
> >>> >> has included a lot of workshops, a lot of
> >>> conferences, reading books,
> >>> >> talking to people, particularly on the topics of
> >>> harm reduction,
> >>> >> psychotherapy, drug education and facilitation.
> >>> There really is no
> >>> >> training program for what I do."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Karpetas first heard of ibogaine in the late
> >>> 1990s, through Jonathan Ott's
> >>> >> book Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic Drugs, Their Plant
> >>> Sources and History. At
> >>> >> the time, she found herself moving in two
> >>> different worlds; in one, she
> >>> >> saw people using psychoactive substances for
> >>> therapeutic and
> >>> >> self-explorative purposes; in another, she saw
> >>> people inflicting great
> >>> >> harm on themselves through drug abuse. Ibogaine
> >>> seemed to bridge the two
> >>> >> worlds, a substance that could fight addiction by
> >>> awakening the mind.
> >>> >> Despite her interest, Karpetas didn't know
> >>> there were people distributing
> >>> >> ibogaine in B.C.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> She planned a trip to West Africa to test ibogaine
> >>> out, but instead had a
> >>> >> chance encounter with a colleague who told her
> >>> about Emery's project. She
> >>> >> immediately contacted him, and toured the facility
> >>> the following day. "I
> >>> >> could see that there was some really good
> >>> potential for philanthropic
> >>> >> work," she says, "but I could also see
> >>> that, unless they instituted a
> >>> >> number of changes to the way they did things, that
> >>> it could also be
> >>> >> potentially dangerous." There have been
> >>> several known fatalities
> >>> >> associated with ibogaine, though not necessarily
> >>> caused by it. For
> >>> >> example, in 2005, a 48-year-old woman died in a
> >>> Mexican ibogaine clinic
> >>> >> from acute myocardial infarct and acute coronary
> >>> syndrome. In 2006, a
> >>> >> 38-year-old U.S. man died at an ibogaine clinic in
> >>> Tijuana from pulmonary
> >>> >> thrombosis. Karpetas says, "They seem to be
> >>> related to improper medical
> >>> >> screening, improper monitoring during the therapy,
> >>> and just a basic lack
> >>> >> of education on the part of the
> >>> >> individuals taking it."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The present-day Iboga House provides a controlled
> >>> setting that minimizes
> >>> >> these risks. Clients go through a thorough medical
> >>> screening and wait 12
> >>> >> hours from the last dose of their drug. When they
> >>> arrive at the house,
> >>> >> clients are lead to its lower level, where one
> >>> room serves as an
> >>> >> altar-like space with elements of many different
> >>> religious traditions.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The individual takes a small test dose of ibogaine
> >>> to ensure no adverse
> >>> >> reactions, then the full dose in capsules an hour
> >>> later. The drug causes a
> >>> >> temporary loss of co-ordination, but also
> >>> minimizes withdrawal symptoms,
> >>> >> which can typically include diarrhea, stomach
> >>> cramps, leg restlessness,
> >>> >> the inability to sleep, extreme agitation and
> >>> depression. "The symptoms of
> >>> >> withdrawal can be very much like the most intense
> >>> flu you've ever had. It
> >>> >> lasts for weeks and can be extremely
> >>> painful," says Karpetas. "None of
> >>> >> that occurs with ibogaine. I haven't seen
> >>> anything like [ibogaine]
> >>> >> anywhere, ever." The rehabilitating trip is
> >>> intense. Once dosed, the
> >>> >> patient experiences a dream-like state lasting
> >>> anywhere from 24 to 36
> >>> >> hours. An RN and an EMT watch the client
> >>> constantly during the first 16
> >>> >> hours, with a portable defibrillator kit, an
> >>> oxygen tank and a full
> >>> >> medical bag close at hand, and the local hospital
> >>> is five minutes away.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Karpetas avoids calling ibogaine
> >>> "psychedelic," saying instead that it's
> >>> >> an oneirogen—a dreaminducing substance.
> >>> "It's like a prolonged waking
> >>> >> dream experience," she says. "It has a
> >>> totally different mode of action
> >>> >> than most of what are termed
> >>> "psychedelics."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> She also emphasizes that ibogaine is no miracle
> >>> cure. "People really have
> >>> >> to have a number of things set in place in their
> >>> life that are going to
> >>> >> assist them in recovery," she says.
> >>> "They should have factors such as
> >>> >> housing, social support, employment or
> >>> employability skills, or a career
> >>> >> of some sort, and long-term follow-up and
> >>> aftercare."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Because of ibogaine's murky legal status,
> >>> there are few studies of its
> >>> >> effectiveness. Dr. Ken Alper, an assistant
> >>> professor of psychiatry and
> >>> >> neurology at New York University School of
> >>> Medicine, conducted lengthy
> >>> >> clinical trials of ibogaine detoxification in the
> >>> 1990s. In a study of 33
> >>> >> opioid users, 25 were found free of withdrawal
> >>> symptoms 24 hours after
> >>> >> ibogaine treatment, and they showed no
> >>> drug-seeking behaviour 72 hours
> >>> >> later. Testing on animals yielded similar results.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Used in the initiation rituals of the Bwiti people
> >>> in Gabon and Cameroon,
> >>> >> ibogaine's addiction-treating properties were
> >>> discovered by a young
> >>> >> American man named Howard Lotsof in the early
> >>> 1960s. A drug user, Lotsof
> >>> >> took ibogaine, which is derived from the bark of a
> >>> West African bush, and
> >>> >> experienced a 36- hour trip full of Freudian
> >>> imagery. Lotsof noticed after
> >>> >> coming down that "for the first time in
> >>> months, I did not want or need to
> >>> >> go cop heroin. In fact, I viewed heroin as a drug
> >>> that emulated death; I
> >>> >> wanted life."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> He ordered more ibogaine, an uncontrolled chemical
> >>> at the time, and
> >>> >> administered it to an informal focus group. Out of
> >>> the 20 people he
> >>> >> tested, seven heroin users had no withdrawal
> >>> symptoms and five had no
> >>> >> desire to use heroin again during the six-month
> >>> monitoring period.
> >>> >> However, hippie culture had no use for ibogaine,
> >>> which was not a party
> >>> >> drug, and the U.S. government was criminalizing
> >>> psychedelic drugs.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Lotsof continued his ibogaine research, despite
> >>> limited resources and a
> >>> >> 14-month prison term for conspiracy to sell LSD,
> >>> and succeeded in getting
> >>> >> a U.S. patent on the use of ibogaine in narcotic
> >>> dependency interruption
> >>> >> in 1985. However, drug companies were indifferent,
> >>> seeing no profit in
> >>> >> ibogaine, which is a natural product that
> >>> can't be patented, and is
> >>> >> administered in a single, large dose instead of
> >>> regular, ongoing doses,
> >>> >> like methadone.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Meanwhile, knowledge of ibogaine's therapeutic
> >>> use spread by word of
> >>> >> mouth, and an underground detoxification movement
> >>> grew in many countries.
> >>> >> Professional, above-ground clinics in Europe,
> >>> Mexico and the Caribbean
> >>> >> provide it, and lay practitioners administer it to
> >>> addicts in their homes
> >>> >> or makeshift clinics.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Iboga House is not the only above-ground ibogaine
> >>> clinic in the world, but
> >>> >> it is the first to contribute to the slowly
> >>> growing body of research on
> >>> >> the drug, in partnership with U.S.-based
> >>> Multidisciplinary Association for
> >>> >> Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a nonprofit research
> >>> organization studying the
> >>> >> application of psychedelics and marijuana. When
> >>> Rick Doblin, MAPS founder
> >>> >> and president, met Karpetas at a conference in
> >>> 2001, he had long been
> >>> >> interested in studying ibogaine. He couldn't
> >>> do so in the United States,
> >>> >> so jumped at the chance to work with Iboga House,
> >>> once that became an
> >>> >> option five years later. "[Karpetas] was
> >>> willing to be honest, to look at
> >>> >> the data of how well the treatment worked,"
> >>> Doblin says. "She welcomed the
> >>> >> research into the therapeutic context of the
> >>> clinic, and also the
> >>> >> spotlight that it would put on her methods."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Since 2006, Iboga House and the MAPS study have
> >>> worked in parallel. The
> >>> >> clinic medically screens and treats clients, after
> >>> which MAPS phones them
> >>> >> once a month for a year to administer the standard
> >>> addiction severity
> >>> >> index interview recognized by the U.S. Food and
> >>> Drug Administration and
> >>> >> the National Institute on Drug Abuse, which tracks
> >>> many aspects of a
> >>> >> person's life, including drug use.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Ibogaine must be compared with other forms of
> >>> medicated detoxification,
> >>> >> which include using general anesthesia in a
> >>> clinical setting to make the
> >>> >> patient unconscious through the withdrawal
> >>> symptoms.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Other treatment programs have high rates of
> >>> dropouts. A 2004 American
> >>> >> study found that only 16.6 percent of methadone
> >>> users completed their
> >>> >> programs, and even detoxification programs only
> >>> had a completion rate of
> >>> >> 62.3. The remainder of participants drop out or
> >>> are discharged. Treatment
> >>> >> programs can also leave the patient dependent on
> >>> regular doses of drugs
> >>> >> such as methadone.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> In contrast to the more institutional programs,
> >>> Iboga House's philosophy
> >>> >> and goal is harm reduction, not abstinence. If,
> >>> after taking ibogaine,
> >>> >> people reduce their drug use or switch to less
> >>> dangerous drugs, that's
> >>> >> still viewed as an improvement. "If they do
> >>> happen to relapse and they
> >>> >> need support," says Karpetas "they can
> >>> call us or the follow-up
> >>> >> co-ordinator and say, 'Look, I'm feeling
> >>> like I'm going to relapse or I
> >>> >> have relapsed once or I had a one-time binge or
> >>> something.' We're there to
> >>> >> support them through that period to make sure they
> >>> essentially understand
> >>> >> that even if they relapse, they're not
> >>> complete failures, that they can
> >>> >> still work toward improving their life." She
> >>> adds, "Generally, we find
> >>> >> people who have not succeeded in religion-based or
> >>> 12-step-based programs
> >>> >> might have a better chance of succeeding in a
> >>> program like ours."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Karpetas's goal is that, once demonstrated
> >>> effective, ibogaine be
> >>> >> recognized under Canada's Natural Health
> >>> Products Regulations, as a
> >>> >> product to be used in a specific protocol in a
> >>> clinical setting, with
> >>> >> Iboga House as the model and the results of the
> >>> MAPS study as evidence.
> >>> >> "We would like to get accredited in the
> >>> future," she says. "But that would
> >>> >> have to go hand-in-hand with demonstrating the
> >>> effectiveness of ibogaine,
> >>> >> and trying to get it regulated through the Natural
> >>> Health Products
> >>> >> program." A Health Canada official stated in
> >>> an email that no ibogaine
> >>> >> containing product has yet been licensed, and it
> >>> is up to the manufacturer
> >>> >> to prove that their product is safe, effective and
> >>> high quality. Also, the
> >>> >> Vancouver Coastal Health Authority inspected the
> >>> house in April 2008 and
> >>> >> found that it didn't come under the Community
> >>> Care and Assisted Living Act
> >>> >> because it didn't have the facilities to treat
> >>> three or more people.
> >>> >> Karpetas says that her
> >>> >> house meets all the requirements of the act
> >>> otherwise.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Ibogaine's therapeutic use has grown in the
> >>> grey area outside medical and
> >>> >> scientific authority because of the need for
> >>> better addiction treatment
> >>> >> than methadone dependency or anesthetic detox.
> >>> Underground treatment
> >>> >> providers continue to operate in the U.S., where
> >>> ibogaine is highly
> >>> >> illegal, because they feel people need it enough
> >>> to take risks. One
> >>> >> American provider told Karpetas that, if anything
> >>> went wrong for his
> >>> >> clients, his emergency procedure was, "I call
> >>> emergency services and I
> >>> >> jet."
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Regardless of whether legal and medical
> >>> authorities legitimize ibogaine,
> >>> >> people will continue using it, just as people keep
> >>> using drugs.
> >>> >> Vancouver's
> >>> >> "four pillars" drug policy already
> >>> includes safe injection sites and
> >>> >> prescription heroin for harm reduction. Ibogaine
> >>> programs like Iboga House
> >>> >> could be part of the treatment pillar, recognizing
> >>> that in addiction the
> >>> >> mind, as well as the body, needs to be healed.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Paula, a 42-year-old woman who had used cocaine
> >>> intermittently since age
> >>> >> 19 and recently graduated to smoking crack, says
> >>> that 12-step programs
> >>> >> didn't work for her because she was constantly
> >>> being reminded she was an
> >>> >> addict. She went through the ibogaine treatment in
> >>> January 2008. Five
> >>> >> weeks after her treatment, she says she feels no
> >>> cravings, has improved
> >>> >> her health, reconnected with her daughter and is
> >>> in the process of getting
> >>> >> her business back. "I know what it's been
> >>> like going through a treatment
> >>> >> centre for seven months, and it's not like
> >>> this," she says. "I don't taste
> >>> >> cocaine, smell it, want it, crave it, dream it.
> >>> Nothing at all. I feel
> >>> >> like I've got a second chance at life, where
> >>> before I was just going day
> >>> >> by day, step by step. I don't feel that with
> >>> this. It's gone."
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
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