[Ibogaine] Dana and Sara

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Sat Jul 12 15:14:17 EDT 2008


Well, if there's that much energy between them, to me it sounds like they
should get together. Where there's hate there's love.

Nick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com]
> On Behalf Of Randy Faulconer
> Sent: 12 July 2008 12:50
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dana and Sara
> 
>           It's been pretty quiet around here as of late about this
> issue. Since you brought it up again Vector, I would like to say one
> more thing, and then bow out.
> 
>       Nobody wants to have to choose one person or the other, nobody
> that I know of anyway. I would think that these two leaders in our
> movement couild come to some kind of understanding without shredding
> the reputation of the other.
> 
>        Spread the Love
> 
>              Randy
> 
> On 7/12/08, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Simon and Broc, both of you have shown you are too stoned to be reading
> > anything right now, go to dana beal's corner ;)
> >
> > Dana and Sara would the two of you please somehow deal with each other?
> Sara
> > I think you're an amazing healer and have been reading your words for
> alot
> > of my life, I do think alot of what you say may be true, dana throws
> away a
> > lot of money. I also truly think that sending people private email off
> list
> > about Dana isn't the way to resolve it. I hear you, I'm listening but I
> > don't think that all of mindvox is some conspiricy that protects dana
> and
> > makes the world see everything his way. I do think Dana and Patrick are
> > friends and all, I do think Dana has helped a lot of people here, so
> have
> > you. I really wish you'd both talk to each other, Please?
> >
> > .:vector:.
> > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four pillars" drug policy
> >> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >> Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 3:53 AM
> >> I was wondering the same thing...... you posted a quote as a
> >> reply to
> >> a cool ibogaine article, that has nothing to do with the
> >> article. wtf
> >> am i missing?
> >>
> >> -broc
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 3:33 AM, simon loxton
> >> <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > Hello;
> >> >
> >> > Where was that excerpt from?
> >> > That would be appreciated; really!.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Si'
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----
> >> > From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
> >> > To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, 12 July, 2008 3:26:35 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four
> >> pillars" drug policy
> >> >
> >> >>>Vancouver's "four pillars" drug
> >> policy already includes safe injection
> >> >>>sites and prescription heroin for harm
> >> reduction. Ibogaine programs
> >> >
> >> > - what ? how to get RX for horsey-pung in Vancouver ?
> >> >
> >> > wow
> >> >
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >> > Donzo
> >> > "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Vector Vector"
> >> <vector620022002 at yahoo.com>
> >> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:43 PM
> >> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga Therapy House
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> http://thismagazine.ca/issues/2008/07/lastrefuge.php
> >> >>
> >> >> .:vector:.
> >> >>
> >> >> THE ADDICT'S LAST REFUGE?
> >> >>
> >> >> B.C.'s Iboga Therapy House is following in a
> >> decades-old tradition of
> >> >> underground rehab-administering a drug called
> >> ibogaine, which has the
> >> >> reported side effect of curbing addiction. But can
> >> these activists take
> >> >> their experiment mainstream?
> >> >>
> >> >> BY PETER TUPPER
> >> >> PHOTOGRAPHY BY REUTERS: ANDY CLARK
> >> >>
> >> >> The drug rehabilitation facility is an ordinary
> >> split-level house in a
> >> >> sleepy residential neighbourhood in a small town
> >> on B.C.'s Sunshine Coast.
> >> >> Inside, the many bookshelves contain everything
> >> from psychopharmacology
> >> >> textbooks to psychedelic graphic novels. Visitors
> >> are welcomed by a small,
> >> >> dark-haired woman named Sandra Karpetas. Though
> >> she has no formal training
> >> >> in medicine, she speaks knowledgeably about
> >> neurochemistry.
> >> >>
> >> >> The people who come here need help. They're
> >> looking for a substance called
> >> >> ibogaine, a psychotropic drug that is reported to
> >> be an addiction
> >> >> interrupter. Iboga Therapy House is often the last
> >> hope of people wishing
> >> >> to free themselves from addiction to heroin,
> >> cocaine, prescription
> >> >> painkillers or other substances. A potentially
> >> powerful tool in the
> >> >> treatment of addiction, ibogaine is unregulated in
> >> Canada. In the U.S. it
> >> >> is a Schedule I controlled substance, alongside
> >> heroin, cannabis and LSD.
> >> >>
> >> >> For decades, an underground network has
> >> administered it to addicts in need
> >> >> worldwide. But ibogaine's profound effect on
> >> the recipient's mind and
> >> >> body, which is what makes it an effective
> >> treatment, may also be its
> >> >> biggest obstacle to acceptance as a medicine. Now,
> >> Iboga Therapy House is
> >> >> where ibogaine may be recognized as a legitimate
> >> medical treatment.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The original Iboga House was founded in 2002 by
> >> Marc Emery, B.C.'s
> >> >> infamous marijuana activist and seed merchant.
> >> Financed by his marijuana
> >> >> seed sales, Emery helped deliver ibogaine for free
> >> to addicts in the
> >> >> Sunshine Coast, personally administering it to
> >> close to 70 people. Two
> >> >> years later, when financial and legal troubles
> >> forced Emery to close the
> >> >> house, he encouraged Karpetas, a comrade in the
> >> project, to continue the
> >> >> work. In 2005, she registered the house as a
> >> non-profit, and reopened it
> >> >> the following year at a rented property about an
> >> hour and a half from
> >> >> Vancouver.
> >> >>
> >> >> The location was chosen to be peaceful and
> >> isolated, and kept secret for
> >> >> the confidentiality of both clients and staff.
> >> Karpetas professionalized
> >> >> Emery's operation, setting up protocols for
> >> screening patients for mental
> >> >> and physical problems at Iboga Therapy House, to
> >> reduce potential danger
> >> >> and prevent fatalities. Iboga is now a non-profit
> >> company, with 10 people
> >> >> on call, including a registered nurse, two EMTs,
> >> several facilitators, two
> >> >> substance counsellors and one follow-up
> >> coordinator. There is also an MD
> >> >> who acts as a consultant. Karpetas, now
> >> Iboga's program director, is one
> >> >> of two full-time employees. So far, 59 people have
> >> undergone treatment at
> >> >> Iboga House.
> >> >>
> >> >> The not-for-profit, which is no longer free-the
> >> five- to seven-day course
> >> >> of treatment costs close to $5,000-can generally
> >> accept only those who can
> >> >> afford it. "There are people in every class
> >> who use substances and it's
> >> >> not just people who live on the street who become
> >> dependent, necessarily,"
> >> >> says the 32-year-old Karpetas, though the clinic
> >> does sometimes donate
> >> >> services to addicts in need. Ibogaine, like other
> >> detoxification methods,
> >> >> is not enough on its own to get people off the
> >> streets, and works best on
> >> >> people with support systems in place.
> >> >>
> >> >> People seek out Iboga House after learning of it
> >> through word of mouth or
> >> >> on the internet. The candidates for treatment are
> >> screened for a variety
> >> >> of medical conditions, including psychiatric
> >> problems, epilepsy, heart
> >> >> problems and HIV, and must submit a general
> >> medical evaluation from a
> >> >> doctor, along with details on their social support
> >> network and their plans
> >> >> for recovery.
> >> >>
> >> >> Karpetas is primarily self-educated, but has a
> >> background doing
> >> >> harm-reduction counselling with addicts. "I
> >> have some of the best mentors
> >> >> in the world," she says. "I didn't
> >> go to university. But my self-education
> >> >> has included a lot of workshops, a lot of
> >> conferences, reading books,
> >> >> talking to people, particularly on the topics of
> >> harm reduction,
> >> >> psychotherapy, drug education and facilitation.
> >> There really is no
> >> >> training program for what I do."
> >> >>
> >> >> Karpetas first heard of ibogaine in the late
> >> 1990s, through Jonathan Ott's
> >> >> book Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic Drugs, Their Plant
> >> Sources and History. At
> >> >> the time, she found herself moving in two
> >> different worlds; in one, she
> >> >> saw people using psychoactive substances for
> >> therapeutic and
> >> >> self-explorative purposes; in another, she saw
> >> people inflicting great
> >> >> harm on themselves through drug abuse. Ibogaine
> >> seemed to bridge the two
> >> >> worlds, a substance that could fight addiction by
> >> awakening the mind.
> >> >> Despite her interest, Karpetas didn't know
> >> there were people distributing
> >> >> ibogaine in B.C.
> >> >>
> >> >> She planned a trip to West Africa to test ibogaine
> >> out, but instead had a
> >> >> chance encounter with a colleague who told her
> >> about Emery's project. She
> >> >> immediately contacted him, and toured the facility
> >> the following day. "I
> >> >> could see that there was some really good
> >> potential for philanthropic
> >> >> work," she says, "but I could also see
> >> that, unless they instituted a
> >> >> number of changes to the way they did things, that
> >> it could also be
> >> >> potentially dangerous." There have been
> >> several known fatalities
> >> >> associated with ibogaine, though not necessarily
> >> caused by it. For
> >> >> example, in 2005, a 48-year-old woman died in a
> >> Mexican ibogaine clinic
> >> >> from acute myocardial infarct and acute coronary
> >> syndrome. In 2006, a
> >> >> 38-year-old U.S. man died at an ibogaine clinic in
> >> Tijuana from pulmonary
> >> >> thrombosis. Karpetas says, "They seem to be
> >> related to improper medical
> >> >> screening, improper monitoring during the therapy,
> >> and just a basic lack
> >> >> of education on the part of the
> >> >> individuals taking it."
> >> >>
> >> >> The present-day Iboga House provides a controlled
> >> setting that minimizes
> >> >> these risks. Clients go through a thorough medical
> >> screening and wait 12
> >> >> hours from the last dose of their drug. When they
> >> arrive at the house,
> >> >> clients are lead to its lower level, where one
> >> room serves as an
> >> >> altar-like space with elements of many different
> >> religious traditions.
> >> >>
> >> >> The individual takes a small test dose of ibogaine
> >> to ensure no adverse
> >> >> reactions, then the full dose in capsules an hour
> >> later. The drug causes a
> >> >> temporary loss of co-ordination, but also
> >> minimizes withdrawal symptoms,
> >> >> which can typically include diarrhea, stomach
> >> cramps, leg restlessness,
> >> >> the inability to sleep, extreme agitation and
> >> depression. "The symptoms of
> >> >> withdrawal can be very much like the most intense
> >> flu you've ever had. It
> >> >> lasts for weeks and can be extremely
> >> painful," says Karpetas. "None of
> >> >> that occurs with ibogaine. I haven't seen
> >> anything like [ibogaine]
> >> >> anywhere, ever." The rehabilitating trip is
> >> intense. Once dosed, the
> >> >> patient experiences a dream-like state lasting
> >> anywhere from 24 to 36
> >> >> hours. An RN and an EMT watch the client
> >> constantly during the first 16
> >> >> hours, with a portable defibrillator kit, an
> >> oxygen tank and a full
> >> >> medical bag close at hand, and the local hospital
> >> is five minutes away.
> >> >>
> >> >> Karpetas avoids calling ibogaine
> >> "psychedelic," saying instead that it's
> >> >> an oneirogen-a dreaminducing substance.
> >> "It's like a prolonged waking
> >> >> dream experience," she says. "It has a
> >> totally different mode of action
> >> >> than most of what are termed
> >> "psychedelics."
> >> >>
> >> >> She also emphasizes that ibogaine is no miracle
> >> cure. "People really have
> >> >> to have a number of things set in place in their
> >> life that are going to
> >> >> assist them in recovery," she says.
> >> "They should have factors such as
> >> >> housing, social support, employment or
> >> employability skills, or a career
> >> >> of some sort, and long-term follow-up and
> >> aftercare."
> >> >>
> >> >> Because of ibogaine's murky legal status,
> >> there are few studies of its
> >> >> effectiveness. Dr. Ken Alper, an assistant
> >> professor of psychiatry and
> >> >> neurology at New York University School of
> >> Medicine, conducted lengthy
> >> >> clinical trials of ibogaine detoxification in the
> >> 1990s. In a study of 33
> >> >> opioid users, 25 were found free of withdrawal
> >> symptoms 24 hours after
> >> >> ibogaine treatment, and they showed no
> >> drug-seeking behaviour 72 hours
> >> >> later. Testing on animals yielded similar results.
> >> >>
> >> >> Used in the initiation rituals of the Bwiti people
> >> in Gabon and Cameroon,
> >> >> ibogaine's addiction-treating properties were
> >> discovered by a young
> >> >> American man named Howard Lotsof in the early
> >> 1960s. A drug user, Lotsof
> >> >> took ibogaine, which is derived from the bark of a
> >> West African bush, and
> >> >> experienced a 36- hour trip full of Freudian
> >> imagery. Lotsof noticed after
> >> >> coming down that "for the first time in
> >> months, I did not want or need to
> >> >> go cop heroin. In fact, I viewed heroin as a drug
> >> that emulated death; I
> >> >> wanted life."
> >> >>
> >> >> He ordered more ibogaine, an uncontrolled chemical
> >> at the time, and
> >> >> administered it to an informal focus group. Out of
> >> the 20 people he
> >> >> tested, seven heroin users had no withdrawal
> >> symptoms and five had no
> >> >> desire to use heroin again during the six-month
> >> monitoring period.
> >> >> However, hippie culture had no use for ibogaine,
> >> which was not a party
> >> >> drug, and the U.S. government was criminalizing
> >> psychedelic drugs.
> >> >>
> >> >> Lotsof continued his ibogaine research, despite
> >> limited resources and a
> >> >> 14-month prison term for conspiracy to sell LSD,
> >> and succeeded in getting
> >> >> a U.S. patent on the use of ibogaine in narcotic
> >> dependency interruption
> >> >> in 1985. However, drug companies were indifferent,
> >> seeing no profit in
> >> >> ibogaine, which is a natural product that
> >> can't be patented, and is
> >> >> administered in a single, large dose instead of
> >> regular, ongoing doses,
> >> >> like methadone.
> >> >>
> >> >> Meanwhile, knowledge of ibogaine's therapeutic
> >> use spread by word of
> >> >> mouth, and an underground detoxification movement
> >> grew in many countries.
> >> >> Professional, above-ground clinics in Europe,
> >> Mexico and the Caribbean
> >> >> provide it, and lay practitioners administer it to
> >> addicts in their homes
> >> >> or makeshift clinics.
> >> >>
> >> >> Iboga House is not the only above-ground ibogaine
> >> clinic in the world, but
> >> >> it is the first to contribute to the slowly
> >> growing body of research on
> >> >> the drug, in partnership with U.S.-based
> >> Multidisciplinary Association for
> >> >> Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a nonprofit research
> >> organization studying the
> >> >> application of psychedelics and marijuana. When
> >> Rick Doblin, MAPS founder
> >> >> and president, met Karpetas at a conference in
> >> 2001, he had long been
> >> >> interested in studying ibogaine. He couldn't
> >> do so in the United States,
> >> >> so jumped at the chance to work with Iboga House,
> >> once that became an
> >> >> option five years later. "[Karpetas] was
> >> willing to be honest, to look at
> >> >> the data of how well the treatment worked,"
> >> Doblin says. "She welcomed the
> >> >> research into the therapeutic context of the
> >> clinic, and also the
> >> >> spotlight that it would put on her methods."
> >> >>
> >> >> Since 2006, Iboga House and the MAPS study have
> >> worked in parallel. The
> >> >> clinic medically screens and treats clients, after
> >> which MAPS phones them
> >> >> once a month for a year to administer the standard
> >> addiction severity
> >> >> index interview recognized by the U.S. Food and
> >> Drug Administration and
> >> >> the National Institute on Drug Abuse, which tracks
> >> many aspects of a
> >> >> person's life, including drug use.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ibogaine must be compared with other forms of
> >> medicated detoxification,
> >> >> which include using general anesthesia in a
> >> clinical setting to make the
> >> >> patient unconscious through the withdrawal
> >> symptoms.
> >> >>
> >> >> Other treatment programs have high rates of
> >> dropouts. A 2004 American
> >> >> study found that only 16.6 percent of methadone
> >> users completed their
> >> >> programs, and even detoxification programs only
> >> had a completion rate of
> >> >> 62.3. The remainder of participants drop out or
> >> are discharged. Treatment
> >> >> programs can also leave the patient dependent on
> >> regular doses of drugs
> >> >> such as methadone.
> >> >>
> >> >> In contrast to the more institutional programs,
> >> Iboga House's philosophy
> >> >> and goal is harm reduction, not abstinence. If,
> >> after taking ibogaine,
> >> >> people reduce their drug use or switch to less
> >> dangerous drugs, that's
> >> >> still viewed as an improvement. "If they do
> >> happen to relapse and they
> >> >> need support," says Karpetas "they can
> >> call us or the follow-up
> >> >> co-ordinator and say, 'Look, I'm feeling
> >> like I'm going to relapse or I
> >> >> have relapsed once or I had a one-time binge or
> >> something.' We're there to
> >> >> support them through that period to make sure they
> >> essentially understand
> >> >> that even if they relapse, they're not
> >> complete failures, that they can
> >> >> still work toward improving their life." She
> >> adds, "Generally, we find
> >> >> people who have not succeeded in religion-based or
> >> 12-step-based programs
> >> >> might have a better chance of succeeding in a
> >> program like ours."
> >> >>
> >> >> Karpetas's goal is that, once demonstrated
> >> effective, ibogaine be
> >> >> recognized under Canada's Natural Health
> >> Products Regulations, as a
> >> >> product to be used in a specific protocol in a
> >> clinical setting, with
> >> >> Iboga House as the model and the results of the
> >> MAPS study as evidence.
> >> >> "We would like to get accredited in the
> >> future," she says. "But that would
> >> >> have to go hand-in-hand with demonstrating the
> >> effectiveness of ibogaine,
> >> >> and trying to get it regulated through the Natural
> >> Health Products
> >> >> program." A Health Canada official stated in
> >> an email that no ibogaine
> >> >> containing product has yet been licensed, and it
> >> is up to the manufacturer
> >> >> to prove that their product is safe, effective and
> >> high quality. Also, the
> >> >> Vancouver Coastal Health Authority inspected the
> >> house in April 2008 and
> >> >> found that it didn't come under the Community
> >> Care and Assisted Living Act
> >> >> because it didn't have the facilities to treat
> >> three or more people.
> >> >> Karpetas says that her
> >> >> house meets all the requirements of the act
> >> otherwise.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ibogaine's therapeutic use has grown in the
> >> grey area outside medical and
> >> >> scientific authority because of the need for
> >> better addiction treatment
> >> >> than methadone dependency or anesthetic detox.
> >> Underground treatment
> >> >> providers continue to operate in the U.S., where
> >> ibogaine is highly
> >> >> illegal, because they feel people need it enough
> >> to take risks. One
> >> >> American provider told Karpetas that, if anything
> >> went wrong for his
> >> >> clients, his emergency procedure was, "I call
> >> emergency services and I
> >> >> jet."
> >> >>
> >> >> Regardless of whether legal and medical
> >> authorities legitimize ibogaine,
> >> >> people will continue using it, just as people keep
> >> using drugs.
> >> >> Vancouver's
> >> >> "four pillars" drug policy already
> >> includes safe injection sites and
> >> >> prescription heroin for harm reduction. Ibogaine
> >> programs like Iboga House
> >> >> could be part of the treatment pillar, recognizing
> >> that in addiction the
> >> >> mind, as well as the body, needs to be healed.
> >> >>
> >> >> Paula, a 42-year-old woman who had used cocaine
> >> intermittently since age
> >> >> 19 and recently graduated to smoking crack, says
> >> that 12-step programs
> >> >> didn't work for her because she was constantly
> >> being reminded she was an
> >> >> addict. She went through the ibogaine treatment in
> >> January 2008. Five
> >> >> weeks after her treatment, she says she feels no
> >> cravings, has improved
> >> >> her health, reconnected with her daughter and is
> >> in the process of getting
> >> >> her business back. "I know what it's been
> >> like going through a treatment
> >> >> centre for seven months, and it's not like
> >> this," she says. "I don't taste
> >> >> cocaine, smell it, want it, crave it, dream it.
> >> Nothing at all. I feel
> >> >> like I've got a second chance at life, where
> >> before I was just going day
> >> >> by day, step by step. I don't feel that with
> >> this. It's gone."
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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